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Speaker 1: Approche production.

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Speaker 2: In the last episode of Who's to Blame, we heard

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Speaker 2: one of the seventeen year olds that had broken into

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Speaker 2: Leon Emma's house and killed Emma on Boxing Day in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two had done this before. The only main

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Speaker 2: difference was that the time before no one died. Aaron

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Speaker 2: and his wife Christine continue to tell their story.

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Speaker 3: This Sunday night, we went to bed and it happened

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Speaker 3: the wee hours of Monday morning, about twelve thirty ish. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was a really quiet weekend actually because we were

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Speaker 3: actually in lockdown, and it was one of those snap

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Speaker 3: lockdowns for COVID that had actually only been lifted at

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Speaker 3: four pm on the Sunday evening, So we had a

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Speaker 3: really quiet weekend. I think we're in bed at like

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Speaker 3: six or six thirty, like Jerry, a.

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Speaker 1: Trick hour distinct thing, really early to bed. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was just a quiet weekend.

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Speaker 3: I had got up to go the bars through and

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Speaker 3: so I hadn't quite fallen back to sleep, and then

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Speaker 3: I heard noises which I thought initially sounded like possums potentially,

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Speaker 3: and then the more I listened, the more it felt

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Speaker 3: like footsteps.

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Speaker 2: And were you thinking those footsteps at the time, were

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Speaker 2: inside your house.

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Speaker 1: Or outside of your house?

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Speaker 3: Inside our bedroom is on the top was on the

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Speaker 3: top floor of that house. You were awake, I think Aaron,

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Speaker 3: and so I was whispering to him, up, I think

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Speaker 3: someone's in the house.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think that's right. I mean, it's odd, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: The recollection we both had is my recollection was I

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Speaker 1: was whispering to you someone's in the house, because I

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Speaker 1: also heard some noises as well. But I don't think

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Speaker 1: the reality of someone being else was truly going through

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Speaker 1: my mind. You know, you sort of do hear noises

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Speaker 1: at night. I think I remember having a conversation reflecting

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Speaker 1: a little bit, thinking maybe it was an animal, because

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Speaker 1: at that point in time, I certainly didn't have any

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Speaker 1: fearful emotion going through my body. It was just a

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Speaker 1: bit of noise and just this old little conversation we

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Speaker 1: were having.

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Speaker 2: Had you ever talked about that prior, like in a

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Speaker 2: party with friends that had been broken into anything like that,

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Speaker 2: Had that sort of someone being in your house of

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Speaker 2: what do we do? Conversation ever happened between the two

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Speaker 2: of you.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, definitely not there was. There was definitely

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Speaker 1: no conversation I can tell there was definitely no battle

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Speaker 1: plan if we were confronted.

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Speaker 2: With it, you know, to use my own experience, I

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Speaker 2: sleep with a baseball bat under my bed. I always

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Speaker 2: have for a long time. I've got a samurai saw

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Speaker 2: it in the cupboard. I don't know what I'd do

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Speaker 2: with either of them, to be honest, not that way incline.

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Speaker 2: But so you.

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Speaker 4: Didn't have any of that, didn't have it.

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Speaker 1: We do now, but not none.

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Speaker 4: Of that because it was August.

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Speaker 3: We're slate with our bedroom door open, because none of

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Speaker 3: the kids were living with it or were with us

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Speaker 3: at that stage.

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Speaker 4: Which is great.

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Speaker 1: Well, the next thing in my mind was looking down

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Speaker 1: the end of the bed and then seeing the figure

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Speaker 1: of a person at the end of the bed, so

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Speaker 1: in the room. I don't think there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of thoughts from this point onwards other than the person.

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Speaker 1: I think I started to move and went out of

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Speaker 1: the bedroom, and then I jump up and in a

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Speaker 1: very loud I feel it was aggressive now telling someone

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Speaker 1: to get the f out of my house, and I

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Speaker 1: started chasing this person.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit out of character for you, right, You're

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Speaker 2: not an aggressive guy.

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Speaker 1: Oh, entirely out of character. Yeah, no, really anti violence,

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Speaker 1: to be frank with her. So this reaction of mine,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure where it came from. I spoken with

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Speaker 1: the police and a psychologist about it subsequent to try

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Speaker 1: and understand the reaction. Yeah, I understand. It's that typical,

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Speaker 1: you know, sort of vital flight scenario, and the brain

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Speaker 1: sho sort of sent me the message that I need

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Speaker 1: to do something about this, and I was conscious I

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Speaker 1: want to protect my wife, feeling were very vulnerable in

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Speaker 1: that situation.

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Speaker 2: Christine, what are you doing at this stage.

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Speaker 3: I hadn't seen that there's a person in our bedroom

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Speaker 3: because I was looking at Aaron whispering I think someone's

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Speaker 3: in the house, So I didn't have that visual, so

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Speaker 3: I didn't really know how close they were. But Aaron

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Speaker 3: did get up and did start making a lot of noise,

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Speaker 3: like a lot of noise. I think you were also

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Speaker 3: stamping your feet. You were clapping your hands and like

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Speaker 3: really loudly, like it was quite loud for you know,

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Speaker 3: one am or whatever it was. Then Aaron yelled out

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Speaker 3: to me, Duhl, you need to call an ambulance. I'm

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Speaker 3: in real trouble. And I had no idea what had happened.

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Speaker 3: It was pitch black, but out of our bedroom there

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Speaker 3: was a landing and then there were like two steps down.

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Speaker 3: So in my head I went to maybe he's fallen

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Speaker 3: down the stairs, slipped and fallen down the stairs. And

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Speaker 3: with all the noise he was making, I couldn't hear anything,

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Speaker 3: you know, much else.

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Speaker 4: He's either you know.

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Speaker 3: Really hurt his back or he's you know, split his

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Speaker 3: head open or something. And then I was kind of

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Speaker 3: trying to find the phone, and then he was starting

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Speaker 3: to crawl into the bedroom and then there was just

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Speaker 3: blood everywhere, and I was got onto the phone to

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Speaker 3: triple O.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They say, what my memory is?

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Speaker 4: What do you need?

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Speaker 3: And I said an ambulance and they said what's happened?

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Speaker 3: And I said, we've had a home invasion and my

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Speaker 3: husband's been stabbed. And then they said we'll get the

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Speaker 3: police and the ambulance. And then they ask a lot

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Speaker 3: of questions about where the wound is, how many people,

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Speaker 3: which I couldn't answer.

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Speaker 4: I never saw anyone.

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Speaker 2: Are you calm at this point.

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Speaker 3: Or are you I'm a mess, not crying, but I

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Speaker 3: remember just repeating that, repeating to them, please hurry, please hurry,

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Speaker 3: please hurry, and answering questions, but like, please hurry, let's

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Speaker 3: go to you.

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Speaker 2: So we've heard Christine doesn't know what's happened. She knows

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Speaker 2: you're in trouble, that you've said. So what happens. You

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Speaker 2: get up, you stop your feet, you clap, You tell

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Speaker 2: this guy to get the fuck out of your house.

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Speaker 1: I chased him, so I remember him then running and

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Speaker 1: he ran onto our balcony, so out of door, onto

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Speaker 1: our balcony. I sort of from memory sort of slowed

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Speaker 1: down and stopped at that point in time because then

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Speaker 1: I saw him sort of literally leap over the balustrade,

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Speaker 1: and I remember thinking at the time, this is a

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Speaker 1: problem for him. It was a big, big drop. Ultimately

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Speaker 1: ended up being a problem I heard in terms of

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Speaker 1: some damage to his legs. But it was then within

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Speaker 1: a split second, I just felt this massive pain in

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Speaker 1: the right side of my back and I clapsed the ground.

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Speaker 1: At that point in time, I felt I put my

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Speaker 1: right hand behind my back and felt it's like it

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Speaker 1: felt like a bit a piece of me to being

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Speaker 1: cut by a sharp knife that had just opened up.

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Speaker 1: And then I felt the blood and I felt my

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Speaker 1: body opened up and I didn't see the person, but

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Speaker 1: in my head. I knew I had been stabbed. I

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Speaker 1: knew it it stabbed, it was it was it was

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Speaker 1: an implement that had got me. And then I just

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Speaker 1: started crawling to the bedroom, back to Christine and connecting

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Speaker 1: the dots. That's when I said, called triple zero. I thought,

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Speaker 1: I said, I think I'm gone. But whatever, it was, whatever,

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Speaker 1: we both call it time. But yeah, I just remember

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Speaker 1: I couldn't walk, and yeah, I knew I was in trouble.

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Speaker 5: It was a.

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Speaker 1: The realization in life that you just have never had

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Speaker 1: before that for the first time, the frailty of your

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Speaker 1: situation was brought home immediately and fortunately I'm here.

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Speaker 2: Did you think that was the end?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I for a bit there, I did, didn't. I.

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Speaker 1: I was just really worried about it. I just knew

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Speaker 1: I I knew I'd been stabbed. I had a realization

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Speaker 1: as to what had gone on. And there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of blund wasn't there. Yeah, it was crawling, so yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was worried at that point. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: My memory is.

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Speaker 3: Like there were a lot of police, there were sniffer dogs,

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Speaker 3: streets were corded off, the police came in. I was

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Speaker 3: obviously scared to answer the door because I didn't know

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Speaker 3: who was in the house still after what happened to Aaron.

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Speaker 4: But the Trevilo were great.

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Speaker 3: They're like, the police will be knocking now, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: how I know it's them, And so.

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Speaker 4: That happened.

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Speaker 3: So I was downstairs, took the police up to Aaron,

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Speaker 3: and then the ambulance.

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Speaker 4: Arrived very soon after.

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Speaker 3: So then the police started kind of assessing Aaron. I

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Speaker 3: think ahead of the ambulance arriving, it was all just happening,

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Speaker 3: and you know, a bit kind of you know, you've

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Speaker 3: just woken up, you know, horrific things just happened.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm not.

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Speaker 3: Sure I can remember a great deal other than I

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Speaker 3: just wanted to be near Aaron. So the police wanted

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Speaker 3: to ask me what happened while I was outside of

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Speaker 3: the room, but I kept on wanting to go and

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Speaker 3: make sure Aaron was that you know, Aaron knew I

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Speaker 3: was around.

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Speaker 2: Are you worried for him at the start?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, very worried, very worried.

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Speaker 3: I do have one distinct memory when Triple O was

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Speaker 3: saying to me, let him line on the floor, get

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Speaker 3: him a pillow, and I remember thinking, you know, in

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Speaker 3: movies when people are saying stay with me, stay with me,

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Speaker 3: stay with me, I'm like, I don't actually want him

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Speaker 3: to get comfortable because I don't want to close I

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Speaker 3: don't want him to close his eyes because what happens

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Speaker 3: if he doesn't wake up? So it sounds awful that

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Speaker 3: I actually wanted him to be uncomfortable in the sense

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Speaker 3: that I wanted him to stay with me.

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Speaker 4: Does that make sense?

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Speaker 3: Not just light down a comfy pillow and go to

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Speaker 3: slap That will stick in my mind forever.

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Speaker 2: So guessing you're there fairly quickly the.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I do call them. I think I might have

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Speaker 1: a pair of box for sure, ripping them off doing

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Speaker 1: this assessment of me. Thankfully, they gave me some good

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Speaker 1: drugs that sort the pain. I do have a memory

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Speaker 1: of being in the ambulance and I remember there was

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Speaker 1: you were with me. I think, weren't you one of

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Speaker 1: the paramedics with one of the big needles. And by

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Speaker 1: this time I was under control because I was truly medicated,

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Speaker 1: and so I remember I remember asking the question what's

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Speaker 1: that for that long needle? And the response I got

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Speaker 1: These won't be the words, but it was something along

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Speaker 1: the lines if We're worried that the knife maybe impacted

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Speaker 1: your lungs and that we might have to break through

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Speaker 1: your rib cage to flat your lungs to get you

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Speaker 1: to the hospital for surgery. They just weren't They just

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Speaker 1: they didn't know what damage had been caused. Obviously at

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Speaker 1: that point in time. The rest of the little blurry

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Speaker 1: Christine better probably fill it in. But it was in

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Speaker 1: the emergency. I remember it was warm.

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Speaker 3: You were taken into No, you were taken into a

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Speaker 3: I have these rooms in the hospital where you've been

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Speaker 3: in shock, heated assessment room to try and figure out

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Speaker 3: what damage and I think they did a scan in

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Speaker 3: that room to see what damage had been done.

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Speaker 4: Interns. I wasn't there.

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Speaker 3: I had to sit outside, so I was in emergency.

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Speaker 2: What do you learn after you get out of surgery?

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Speaker 2: What do you find out about your injury?

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Speaker 1: That I was extremely lucky. The surgeon was a lovely

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Speaker 1: lady who came and gave me a post off briefing

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Speaker 1: that the knife had come in appeared to have come

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Speaker 1: in on an angle on the right side of my back,

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Speaker 1: sort of around the middle of my back, making a

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Speaker 1: significant flesh wound but missing the vital organs somehow nicked

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Speaker 1: my diafe from and my spine pulled it up so

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Speaker 1: up into my spine, so I look, I shocked, but

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Speaker 1: grateful that ultimately the end of the day it was

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Speaker 1: cleaning out a wound and you know, sewing me back

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Speaker 1: up again. And I was told at that point in

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Speaker 1: time that the guy was just extremely lucky and I

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Speaker 1: would recover.

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Speaker 2: That weapon that was used. Was that from your home?

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Speaker 1: No, they brought it in. Yeah, there was a lot

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Speaker 1: of sort of careful analysis done by the police on

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Speaker 1: that aspect of it, wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they never found the weapon, but we had to

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Speaker 3: do a knife for it.

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Speaker 2: There were obviously two offenders inside your house. Were there

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Speaker 2: others involved that you're now.

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Speaker 1: A were of, Yeah, you're looking again. This is sort

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Speaker 1: of after required knowledge. So when you say obviously two,

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Speaker 1: we think just the two. We think the person who

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Speaker 1: put the knife in my back had been downstairs in

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Speaker 1: our garage because from recollection, you remember someone racing up

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Speaker 1: the stairs after I started chasing the first person out.

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Speaker 1: But we now know that there was a young fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old was it in the car out the front

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Speaker 1: of our house and that person was the driver.

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Speaker 2: But that car was stolen.

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Speaker 1: Cover stolen had been your.

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Speaker 4: Stolin red Hell earlier that night.

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Speaker 1: So there was a bit of a spree because oddly enough,

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Speaker 1: to divert just briefly, I was sitting getting my haircut

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Speaker 1: about twelve months ago, and for whatever reason, I am,

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Speaker 1: the hairdress was asking me where I lived and how

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Speaker 1: long I'd lived there, and I'd moved from a house

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Speaker 1: to house and why And I said that you really

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Speaker 1: want to know, and so I told him the reason why.

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Speaker 1: And there's this lady sitting next to me who turned

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Speaker 1: around and she said, you're not going to believe this,

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Speaker 1: but the people that came into your house must have

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Speaker 1: broken into my house just prior to you. Because the

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Speaker 1: police told me how lucky she was because the next

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Speaker 1: person they broke into got stabbed. It was that same

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Speaker 1: night at that same time. It was an unreal to

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Speaker 1: me having that conversation. So, yeah, we learned a lot.

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Speaker 1: How much of the whole possible we've put together, They

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Speaker 1: don't know, the police will know a lot more, but

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Speaker 1: I mean they were wonderful, but they sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: at one point I wanted to look at the file,

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Speaker 1: and they certainly encouraged me not to do any of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, listening to Aaron and Christine tell their story, it

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Speaker 2: sounds so familiar to Lee's story. And these aren't the

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Speaker 2: only two stories like this. We've heard it so many

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Speaker 2: times before from an international rugby player, Tottai Kfu and

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Speaker 2: his family members who were stabbed in cooper U.

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Speaker 6: Dozens of police officers swarmed this suburban street in Coopero,

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Speaker 6: only to find out it was home to one of

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Speaker 6: Australia's rugby grates. Tottai Kefu had been stabbed trying to

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Speaker 6: protect his family in an alleged home invasion.

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Speaker 2: He suffered serious wounds to his abdomen, while his wife,

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Speaker 2: Rachel was significantly injured on her arm.

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Speaker 6: Police alleged mister Kefu's wife was confronted and threatened with

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Speaker 6: a knife, demanding she hand over khakeys in the alleged robbery.

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Speaker 2: The two adult kids were also slashed, and a name

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Speaker 2: who tried to help was assaulted outside.

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Speaker 6: One of the alleged defenders, A fifteen year old boy,

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Speaker 6: was restrained by a neighbor until police arrived.

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Speaker 2: One of the youngest teenagers was out on bail. Of

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Speaker 2: the time, three.

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Speaker 6: Youths have been arrested. One of them, a fifteen year old,

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Speaker 6: is facing a string of charges, including four counts of

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Speaker 6: attempted murder.

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Speaker 2: He also went on to allegedly commit more break ins

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Speaker 2: after he was arrested and released over the attack. But

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Speaker 2: for now, let's head back to Aaron and Christine. We'll

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Speaker 2: talk about the recovery process, not just the physical wounds,

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Speaker 2: but the emotional toll it takes on mental health as

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Speaker 2: well as the changes had happened after Aaron was.

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Speaker 3: Stabbed significantly in the sense that we've now got security comers,

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Speaker 3: which we never had. We do have an alarm system

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Speaker 3: that when the kids aren't home, we can alarm the

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Speaker 3: whole house and go to sleep, So and that was

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Speaker 3: particularly useful for us in the immediate after Martha, and

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Speaker 3: we're still quite traumatized.

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Speaker 4: We've got a lock in our bedroom.

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Speaker 3: Door, so we actually lock ourselves in our bedroom every night.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the biggest thing. I think for me,

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Speaker 1: it was going to be just having that lock on

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Speaker 1: the bedroom door and a program in my head that

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Speaker 1: I developed with a psychologist over a period of time

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Speaker 1: after the incident about what would happen if I'm confronted,

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Speaker 1: Because again, now psychologist is such a lovely lady. I

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Speaker 1: just I'm so entirely grateful for the work that she's

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Speaker 1: done to help me get to where I am now.

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Speaker 1: But she did promise me lightning doesn't strike truce and

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Speaker 1: would never have it again. But like you, Joe, I've

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Speaker 1: got I was encouraged to have a baseball under my bed.

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Speaker 1: You know, we talked through the scenario over this unlikely

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Speaker 1: event the alarm doesn't go off, the lock on the

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Speaker 1: door gets penetrated, that they happen to just smash in

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Speaker 1: the bedroom door because that's locked as well. What's your

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Speaker 1: next thing? And I said, I don't know, to get

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Speaker 1: a baseball back for the goasebook. Have a baseball bat

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Speaker 1: under your bed.

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Speaker 3: And that was really to help us sleep at night,

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Speaker 3: because we had terrible periods of just not terrible, just

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Speaker 3: not being able to sleep at night. Any slight noise

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Speaker 3: would send your adrenaline through the roof and then you're

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Speaker 3: awake for hours afterwards.

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Speaker 2: How long did you stay there before you get rid

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Speaker 2: of that house and leave.

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Speaker 3: A long time? So that happened in the August. We

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Speaker 3: didn't sell, we bought this place. We're currently in the

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Speaker 3: February but so we had We did look at a

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Speaker 3: few apartments because I thought maybe apartment living, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's a few more stages of security to get through.

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Speaker 4: Couldn't really easily find something.

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Speaker 3: But I think we're both so traumatized that I actually

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Speaker 3: couldn't get my head around having to move, and Aaron

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Speaker 3: was so sick that he was unable to do anything.

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Speaker 3: Really like weeks, Basically you're on a walking stick, then

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Speaker 3: you were eventually in a wheelchair.

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Speaker 4: I was up.

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Speaker 3: The only thing that really seemed to help your pain

359
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Speaker 3: was hot water bottles would take it away. So I'd

360
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Speaker 3: be up four or five times a night until I'd

361
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Speaker 3: hear him groaning when the water bottle would wear off,

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Speaker 3: and so I'd get up again. And so that was

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Speaker 3: probably the first six weeks when he was out of hospital.

364
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Speaker 2: So this is the physical aspect of what happened to you.

365
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,920
Speaker 2: The knife wound was more than a flesh wound, but

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Speaker 2: equally didn't puncher any major arteries or anything like that, which,

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Speaker 2: as you said, very lucky about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the thing that sort of surprised me

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Speaker 1: a little bit. So I recovered from the surgery pretty well.

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Speaker 1: I came back home early. Things The first few days

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Speaker 1: were going pretty well. I was on pain medication, of course,

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Speaker 1: but pretty early on I was getting a lot of pain,

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Speaker 1: and you know, the doctors were telling me it's normal

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Speaker 1: to have a lot of pain after a traumatic event

375
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Speaker 1: like this, so I was putting it down to that.

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Speaker 1: But it was just getting worse and worse. As Christine said,

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Speaker 1: I had to start just using a walking stick to

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Speaker 1: move anywhere, progressed to a wheelchair. I was up all night.

379
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Speaker 1: The pain was just getting increasingly worse. And again I

380
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Speaker 1: was going to physio and doctors, and I was told, no,

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Speaker 1: this is a recovery. You know, these are pains for

382
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Speaker 1: your recovery. And I look back in hindsight to be

383
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Speaker 1: once the JA I think to myself that I should

384
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Speaker 1: have just raced a hospital a lot earlier than I did.

385
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Speaker 1: But it got to a point where it was just unbearable.

386
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Speaker 1: So this period that we're talking about now, with this pain,

387
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,401
Speaker 1: I couldn't deal with anything other than the physical pain.

388
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Speaker 1: At that point in time, I was seeing a psychologist

389
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Speaker 1: who was helping me out with the event, but even

390
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 1: then I couldn't really deal with the event. I was

391
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Speaker 1: in awful, awful pain, and so dealing with the event

392
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 1: came a little bit down the track once I figured

393
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Speaker 1: out with the pain that it was actually an infection

394
00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:27,481
Speaker 1: that got into my bone, and so by the time

395
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Speaker 1: we got to hospital and started to address that, at

396
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Speaker 1: one point I was told that I was very close

397
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Speaker 1: to death from this. This is the second time, and

398
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Speaker 1: so Jay it was it was really dealing with that.

399
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Speaker 1: I look back now and just it was really the

400
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Speaker 1: physical pain until I got out of hospital the second time,

401
00:22:48,201 --> 00:22:50,200
Speaker 1: which I was in there for a month or so

402
00:22:51,041 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 1: and then came home. I'm under nursing care, you know,

403
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,201
Speaker 1: with introvening, the strip of dripping antibotics just sitting above

404
00:22:58,201 --> 00:23:01,801
Speaker 1: my heart. And then once I got over all of that,

405
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,921
Speaker 1: it was then I was able to start to reflect

406
00:23:03,961 --> 00:23:07,160
Speaker 1: on emotional trauma of it. I spent a lot of

407
00:23:07,201 --> 00:23:10,321
Speaker 1: time with my psychologist who said to me at one

408
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,880
Speaker 1: point in time that the only way to move forward

409
00:23:12,921 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 1: with all of this is we need to start to

410
00:23:15,241 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: talk about it, and we need to walk through what

411
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,640
Speaker 1: happened in as much detail as you can, which I

412
00:23:20,681 --> 00:23:23,561
Speaker 1: started to back then with my psychologist and it was

413
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,001
Speaker 1: just so helpful because she helped me unpack it. She

414
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 1: helped me understand a lot of things, including that these

415
00:23:31,441 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: young offenders who came into our house, we're not there

416
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: because they necessarily want us to do harm to Christine

417
00:23:38,521 --> 00:23:40,481
Speaker 1: and I. It wasn't about that. It wasn't a bandetta

418
00:23:40,481 --> 00:23:44,481
Speaker 1: about us. They were on a spree and our house

419
00:23:44,521 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 1: they happened to get into, and you know, they had

420
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Speaker 1: a violence. They had violence as part of their response

421
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,041
Speaker 1: to anything that goes wrong once they enter our house.

422
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,080
Speaker 1: So once I'd unpacked it, and I think once we moved,

423
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:02,281
Speaker 1: because I was sort of waking up screaming, wasn't I

424
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,561
Speaker 1: at the other place impact it? You know, After a

425
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,880
Speaker 1: period of a few months, I started to realize that

426
00:24:10,001 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 1: the best thing that I can do is talk to

427
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 1: people who want to talk to me about it, And

428
00:24:14,321 --> 00:24:18,041
Speaker 1: most psychologists said that's probably the best thing to help

429
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,001
Speaker 1: you get over it and avoid a late nonset of

430
00:24:21,041 --> 00:24:23,880
Speaker 1: PTSD on the track. And so I've just taken the

431
00:24:23,921 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: approach now, friends, family, people who I deal with, clients

432
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: even who have taken an interest in all of this,

433
00:24:31,321 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 1: and colleagues in the law industry, and I'm very very

434
00:24:33,761 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: grateful for many of them who want to talk a

435
00:24:36,721 --> 00:24:41,401
Speaker 1: talk and hence, you know, yourself asking do you want

436
00:24:41,441 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: to come and have a chat today about this, and

437
00:24:44,201 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 1: more than open to do.

438
00:24:45,001 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 4: So.

439
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,521
Speaker 2: This is sort of early twenty twenty two. You're starting

440
00:24:49,561 --> 00:24:55,321
Speaker 2: to feel like yourself again. Your body healing, your mind

441
00:24:55,441 --> 00:25:00,921
Speaker 2: is healing, You're dealing with help about how you navigate

442
00:25:00,961 --> 00:25:02,761
Speaker 2: some of the trauma that you've gone through both.

443
00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:08,281
Speaker 1: Yeah, early twenty twenty two started to feel like I'm

444
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: moving forward again in my life, just with all of

445
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,920
Speaker 1: those things that you've mentioned.

446
00:25:14,521 --> 00:25:18,160
Speaker 2: Those boys are arrested some period from within.

447
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: So the police were great. They kept us informed fairly

448
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:28,321
Speaker 1: consistently along the way because I wasn't able to identify them.

449
00:25:29,681 --> 00:25:32,281
Speaker 1: It was a circumstantial evidence case for the police with

450
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,241
Speaker 1: the difficult cases, but they did a wonderful job. You know.

451
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: They managed to get some camera footage from our street

452
00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: where the car left after they came into our house,

453
00:25:47,561 --> 00:25:49,441
Speaker 1: and then they were able to put together a whole

454
00:25:49,481 --> 00:25:52,921
Speaker 1: bunch of footage and other types of evidence to ultimately

455
00:25:52,961 --> 00:25:58,401
Speaker 1: find them, and then some other things. And so I

456
00:25:58,481 --> 00:26:00,921
Speaker 1: was very surprised at how quickly I think arrests were made.

457
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:06,360
Speaker 1: I think arrests were made within maybe weeks some months. Yeah,

458
00:26:06,481 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: I was surprised because I wasn't able to identify them,

459
00:26:10,481 --> 00:26:15,241
Speaker 1: so I wasn't able to assist, which was disappointing for me.

460
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: But it was dark, the clothing seemed dark that they

461
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,880
Speaker 1: were wearing. I couldn't identify facial features.

462
00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:25,881
Speaker 2: And then you've got all the trauma around it too.

463
00:26:25,961 --> 00:26:30,001
Speaker 1: All the trauma and that difficulty identifying DNA and then

464
00:26:30,761 --> 00:26:33,241
Speaker 1: but look, I couldn't speak more highly about the police

465
00:26:33,241 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 1: and the case they put together and the charge that

466
00:26:35,281 --> 00:26:37,681
Speaker 1: they brought were attempted murder charges, and I was very

467
00:26:37,681 --> 00:26:40,641
Speaker 1: grateful that they chose to bring charges that I thought

468
00:26:40,681 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 1: accurately reflected the nature of the crime.

469
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 2: Were you able to attend the court when those two

470
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,201
Speaker 2: boys were convicted?

471
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,801
Speaker 1: So the first boy went to court When we were

472
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 1: overseas in twenty twenty two, we had a long planned holiday,

473
00:26:56,201 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: and after finding out that that's when the sentencing hearing

474
00:26:59,681 --> 00:27:04,241
Speaker 1: was set down for, we made a deliberate decision not

475
00:27:04,441 --> 00:27:07,441
Speaker 1: to cancel holiday and not to fly back to simply

476
00:27:07,561 --> 00:27:10,360
Speaker 1: attend a court process. We'd love to have been there.

477
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,041
Speaker 1: I did a victim impact statement, yeah, which I it

478
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: was really just trying to explain to the offender the

479
00:27:19,801 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: impact that this crime has had on myself and my

480
00:27:23,281 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: wife and our lives. So trying to get through to

481
00:27:27,921 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: someone who is going to be sentenced and where the

482
00:27:32,001 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: victim impact statement is something that you know, the judges

483
00:27:35,961 --> 00:27:39,441
Speaker 1: do take into account. And the second offender was I

484
00:27:39,481 --> 00:27:46,401
Speaker 1: feel about yeah, and.

485
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 2: So the yeah, we'll both charged with attempted murder.

486
00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:55,681
Speaker 1: I understood they were, but before the matters went through

487
00:27:55,761 --> 00:27:58,761
Speaker 1: the sentencing process. So I got a call from the

488
00:27:58,801 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: former Director of Public Prosecutions here in Queensland and had

489
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,761
Speaker 1: a challenging conversation, not challenging in the sense that was

490
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: challenging to how the conversation with him, but challenging in

491
00:28:11,001 --> 00:28:14,041
Speaker 1: the sense that he was doing his job and explaining

492
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: to me why the attempted murder charges couldn't be followed

493
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 1: through by the prosecution. The nature of the case was

494
00:28:22,721 --> 00:28:25,281
Speaker 1: such that it was going to be difficult to prove

495
00:28:25,321 --> 00:28:28,481
Speaker 1: those charges before a court to the criminal standard. All

496
00:28:28,561 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: that was explained to me, which I was very very

497
00:28:31,681 --> 00:28:35,121
Speaker 1: upset about because at that point in time, I think

498
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: I was going through a bit of an anger cycle

499
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:40,921
Speaker 1: and my attitude was I would rather have a most

500
00:28:40,961 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: serious offenses to be put before the court and let

501
00:28:44,481 --> 00:28:51,681
Speaker 1: the court decide, because that's how I felt about the

502
00:28:51,721 --> 00:28:55,201
Speaker 1: matter in totality, that is that the charge I wanted

503
00:28:55,241 --> 00:28:58,761
Speaker 1: to reflect the impact on me in terms of the

504
00:28:58,841 --> 00:29:02,041
Speaker 1: nature of the crime. So I didn't have a choice

505
00:29:02,041 --> 00:29:04,841
Speaker 1: in it. And that's the way the prosecutorial system works,

506
00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:07,561
Speaker 1: you know, the prosecutors have to run the case before

507
00:29:07,561 --> 00:29:11,601
Speaker 1: the courts. But I was very, very disappointed to find

508
00:29:11,601 --> 00:29:14,481
Speaker 1: out ultimately the charges were downgraded to I'm awful lending.

509
00:29:14,881 --> 00:29:19,601
Speaker 1: But what that meant was just it just left a

510
00:29:19,721 --> 00:29:24,321
Speaker 1: really sort of, I don't know, deflated outcome for us.

511
00:29:24,601 --> 00:29:25,841
Speaker 4: I mean, we looked quite angry.

512
00:29:25,881 --> 00:29:31,601
Speaker 3: I remember being quite angry about the outcome of the

513
00:29:31,721 --> 00:29:35,081
Speaker 3: hearing while we were overseas we found out about the outcome.

514
00:29:36,241 --> 00:29:37,801
Speaker 4: Bit of disbelief.

515
00:29:39,241 --> 00:29:41,521
Speaker 3: And then anger at the second one where we went

516
00:29:41,721 --> 00:29:45,201
Speaker 3: and the contempt that was shown for the court by

517
00:29:45,321 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 3: the accused didn't show up for the first hearing. Just

518
00:29:52,001 --> 00:29:57,121
Speaker 3: couldn't care less, really was the impression I got, And

519
00:29:57,361 --> 00:29:59,601
Speaker 3: you know, very little consequences.

520
00:30:01,161 --> 00:30:02,481
Speaker 5: Can I go to.

521
00:30:04,121 --> 00:30:07,561
Speaker 2: Christmas? How do you spend Christmas?

522
00:30:07,801 --> 00:30:11,441
Speaker 3: We had Christmas here in our new place with all

523
00:30:11,481 --> 00:30:14,721
Speaker 3: the family, which was great, and then we went up

524
00:30:14,761 --> 00:30:16,361
Speaker 3: to the Sunshine Coast.

525
00:30:18,121 --> 00:30:18,841
Speaker 4: Two days later.

526
00:30:19,241 --> 00:30:22,561
Speaker 2: When do you hear about what happened to Lea and

527
00:30:22,561 --> 00:30:24,801
Speaker 2: Emma Lover? Do you remember that moment?

528
00:30:25,841 --> 00:30:30,601
Speaker 3: I remember reading it on you know, your news feed

529
00:30:31,281 --> 00:30:36,161
Speaker 3: on my phone. I tried not to think too much

530
00:30:36,201 --> 00:30:38,281
Speaker 3: about it, to be honest, because I feel like we've

531
00:30:38,361 --> 00:30:40,401
Speaker 3: just done a lot of work to try and get

532
00:30:40,441 --> 00:30:42,161
Speaker 3: into the headspace that we were in.

533
00:30:42,881 --> 00:30:44,321
Speaker 4: Very much needed a break.

534
00:30:45,601 --> 00:30:48,761
Speaker 3: Like the overseas trip was wonderful, but it did have

535
00:30:48,801 --> 00:30:52,041
Speaker 3: the sentencing, you know, that kind of martyred a little.

536
00:30:52,161 --> 00:30:55,641
Speaker 3: And overseas travel is different to just a holiday by

537
00:30:55,681 --> 00:30:57,521
Speaker 3: the beach. So I felt like we both needed a

538
00:30:57,561 --> 00:30:58,641
Speaker 3: holiday by the beach.

539
00:31:00,081 --> 00:31:03,081
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. Yeah, I read about it. There's a

540
00:31:03,081 --> 00:31:07,681
Speaker 1: games of reflection on youth crime in the suburbs that

541
00:31:07,761 --> 00:31:09,841
Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about Tilliams and happened to us,

542
00:31:09,881 --> 00:31:15,521
Speaker 1: And it seemed, Joe, they just seemed to be in

543
00:31:15,561 --> 00:31:19,201
Speaker 1: my mind that things were just escalating. They just seemed

544
00:31:19,201 --> 00:31:22,041
Speaker 1: to be more of it, and so I was sort

545
00:31:22,081 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 1: of deeply saddened and upset by it. But at that

546
00:31:26,041 --> 00:31:28,361
Speaker 1: point in time, again it was just another really piece

547
00:31:28,401 --> 00:31:31,761
Speaker 1: of really sad news, and we were able to reflect

548
00:31:32,321 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: on it because we've been through it, and just in

549
00:31:35,001 --> 00:31:37,601
Speaker 1: a sense to feel very sad for the love of family.

550
00:31:38,321 --> 00:31:40,121
Speaker 1: But quite equally, I remember having a bit of a

551
00:31:40,161 --> 00:31:42,321
Speaker 1: reflection thinking how lucky I was to get through it

552
00:31:42,361 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 1: and that didn't happen to me.

553
00:31:45,681 --> 00:31:47,921
Speaker 2: And when do you find out that one of the

554
00:31:47,961 --> 00:31:53,281
Speaker 2: boys that was in your house was the person that

555
00:31:53,401 --> 00:31:53,961
Speaker 2: killed Emma.

556
00:31:57,241 --> 00:31:58,121
Speaker 5: I've had a lot of.

557
00:32:00,961 --> 00:32:04,801
Speaker 1: Contact from the media since my incident, off and on,

558
00:32:07,521 --> 00:32:11,801
Speaker 1: some of which I've engaged with. Others I haven't, but

559
00:32:11,921 --> 00:32:16,121
Speaker 1: I did take a phone call twenty seventh, wasn't that's

560
00:32:16,161 --> 00:32:20,281
Speaker 1: the next time the twenty seventh from someone from the media,

561
00:32:20,361 --> 00:32:26,761
Speaker 1: and the conversation went something along the lines of Aaron,

562
00:32:27,321 --> 00:32:30,681
Speaker 1: you might have heard in the media about the tragic

563
00:32:30,721 --> 00:32:36,601
Speaker 1: circumstances involving at a level, do you mind if I

564
00:32:36,681 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: mention a name to you, because we think in the

565
00:32:39,481 --> 00:32:42,801
Speaker 1: media that one of the individuals who was involved in

566
00:32:42,841 --> 00:32:47,681
Speaker 1: your matter was also involved in that. And so I said,

567
00:32:47,681 --> 00:32:51,281
Speaker 1: that's fine. And I was on the phone and the

568
00:32:51,401 --> 00:33:02,201
Speaker 1: journal mentioned this young person's name, and that was harrowing.

569
00:33:03,201 --> 00:33:05,801
Speaker 1: I just said to the journal, just give me a second.

570
00:33:05,841 --> 00:33:08,681
Speaker 1: I put the phone down and I said to my

571
00:33:08,761 --> 00:33:13,921
Speaker 1: wife journo has just put this name forward, and I

572
00:33:14,001 --> 00:33:16,921
Speaker 1: asked you your reflection on the name, and we were

573
00:33:16,921 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: both in agreement that having regard to the name, it

574
00:33:19,761 --> 00:33:24,041
Speaker 1: was the same person who was sentenced for offenses associated

575
00:33:24,041 --> 00:33:28,081
Speaker 1: with the crime against us. And I was able to

576
00:33:28,161 --> 00:33:31,321
Speaker 1: then say to the journalist that that name is the

577
00:33:31,361 --> 00:33:35,961
Speaker 1: same person. And that's when we found out, and that

578
00:33:36,081 --> 00:33:40,961
Speaker 1: then escalated in our minds, both from an emotional perspective,

579
00:33:40,961 --> 00:33:43,361
Speaker 1: and I was feeling very physically unwell about all of

580
00:33:43,361 --> 00:33:48,641
Speaker 1: this at the time, a lot of thoughts because having

581
00:33:48,681 --> 00:33:54,601
Speaker 1: found out about that day, that twenty seventh, it was unbelievable,

582
00:33:55,721 --> 00:33:59,441
Speaker 1: and not only unbelievable that it happened, because the same

583
00:33:59,481 --> 00:34:04,761
Speaker 1: person was involved, and we've just seen someone being sentenced

584
00:34:04,761 --> 00:34:07,801
Speaker 1: a month earlier, and here we go, someone's now dead.

585
00:34:09,841 --> 00:34:14,681
Speaker 1: I personally actually felt a little bit of guilt. Maybe

586
00:34:14,681 --> 00:34:18,281
Speaker 1: I didn't do enough, you know, going through my head

587
00:34:18,281 --> 00:34:21,521
Speaker 1: about the charges being downgraded to I'm awful wounding. It's

588
00:34:21,521 --> 00:34:26,001
Speaker 1: obviously impacted the sentence. Did I do enough to advocate

589
00:34:26,121 --> 00:34:30,241
Speaker 1: for some change that could have saved Emma? I don't know.

590
00:34:30,601 --> 00:34:33,921
Speaker 1: It just that was a very very difficult time, and

591
00:34:33,961 --> 00:34:39,201
Speaker 1: I've felt a lot of guilt about that. Can I

592
00:34:39,241 --> 00:34:44,361
Speaker 1: just say we're doing really well when that was harrowing

593
00:34:44,441 --> 00:34:47,641
Speaker 1: and backing it? But you feel a bit like it

594
00:34:47,921 --> 00:34:49,841
Speaker 1: all of the time. There's so much that goes on

595
00:34:49,881 --> 00:34:52,401
Speaker 1: in the media. I just I don't know whether it's

596
00:34:52,481 --> 00:34:55,761
Speaker 1: because we've been through this that I'm more alert to

597
00:34:56,201 --> 00:34:59,801
Speaker 1: youth crime and you know what gets reported in the media,

598
00:34:59,841 --> 00:35:02,281
Speaker 1: but I feel I'm just hearing it all the time.

599
00:35:02,401 --> 00:35:05,001
Speaker 1: So you never escape from the reminder of it all.

600
00:35:05,241 --> 00:35:07,721
Speaker 1: You just get better again sort of dealing with it.

601
00:35:09,561 --> 00:35:11,521
Speaker 1: But there are a lot of triggers that still go on.

602
00:35:11,881 --> 00:35:14,961
Speaker 1: It'll be years before we wake up one day and

603
00:35:15,001 --> 00:35:16,321
Speaker 1: we don't have a trigger about this.

604
00:35:21,361 --> 00:35:23,521
Speaker 2: Let's head forward a year and a bit later to

605
00:35:23,641 --> 00:35:27,161
Speaker 2: Emma and Lee Lovell's house in North Lakes when police

606
00:35:27,281 --> 00:35:31,361
Speaker 2: arrests two people and later charge them with murder. One

607
00:35:31,401 --> 00:35:34,321
Speaker 2: of them is the same boy that stabbed Aaron back

608
00:35:34,321 --> 00:35:35,521
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one.

609
00:35:36,201 --> 00:35:40,561
Speaker 7: And through some very good investigative skills demonstrated by the detectives,

610
00:35:41,041 --> 00:35:46,441
Speaker 7: they managed to locate four persons who were taken into custody.

611
00:35:47,201 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 7: I can say at this point in time that two

612
00:35:49,481 --> 00:35:53,081
Speaker 7: of those people or seventeen year old boy from Zornia

613
00:35:53,601 --> 00:35:56,361
Speaker 7: and a seventeen year old boy from Holland Park will

614
00:35:56,401 --> 00:36:01,601
Speaker 7: be charged later today with murder, attempted murder and break

615
00:36:01,641 --> 00:36:02,161
Speaker 7: an enter.

616
00:36:07,961 --> 00:36:13,761
Speaker 2: When do you hear that they've arrested the two boys.

617
00:36:13,521 --> 00:36:14,721
Speaker 5: That were in your house that night?

618
00:36:15,161 --> 00:36:16,841
Speaker 8: I'm not really too sure to be on us. Like

619
00:36:17,961 --> 00:36:19,521
Speaker 8: I probably would have said it was like later on

620
00:36:19,561 --> 00:36:22,561
Speaker 8: that day. I think later on that day, like the

621
00:36:22,601 --> 00:36:26,281
Speaker 8: police came round and uh, a couple of detectives there,

622
00:36:26,401 --> 00:36:28,121
Speaker 8: So I think I would have found out there, But

623
00:36:28,161 --> 00:36:30,641
Speaker 8: I'm not exactly too sure, but it was probably the

624
00:36:30,681 --> 00:36:32,601
Speaker 8: next day, I'm guessing, you know a few hours later

625
00:36:32,721 --> 00:36:34,841
Speaker 8: I was told, cause I do know since then I

626
00:36:34,881 --> 00:36:38,641
Speaker 8: have found out that within you know, three or four hours,

627
00:36:38,681 --> 00:36:40,281
Speaker 8: and they'd got them at the house around the car

628
00:36:40,401 --> 00:36:43,961
Speaker 8: from us. Yeah, and how did they get the uh,

629
00:36:44,041 --> 00:36:45,281
Speaker 8: partly through sniffer dogs.

630
00:36:45,281 --> 00:36:45,801
Speaker 5: I think.

631
00:36:48,441 --> 00:36:50,561
Speaker 8: Maybe I think the police knew that there was a

632
00:36:50,561 --> 00:36:52,961
Speaker 8: a residential care house around the corner from us, and

633
00:36:54,881 --> 00:36:59,041
Speaker 8: so yeah, maybe they tried there and then there was

634
00:36:59,081 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 8: I think maybe a person that had answered the door.

635
00:37:01,001 --> 00:37:03,841
Speaker 8: And then while the while the police were talking to

636
00:37:03,921 --> 00:37:06,321
Speaker 8: the personal's door, I think they they had heard noises

637
00:37:06,361 --> 00:37:08,361
Speaker 8: in the back or something, so gone in and then

638
00:37:09,121 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 8: found the two people hiding under a blanket in another

639
00:37:11,561 --> 00:37:12,201
Speaker 8: bedroom or something.

640
00:37:12,241 --> 00:37:17,121
Speaker 2: So so let's quickly talk about the residential care. That's

641
00:37:17,161 --> 00:37:20,401
Speaker 2: a place where I guess juveniles go or can go

642
00:37:20,641 --> 00:37:25,641
Speaker 2: on parole or where they've been not incarcerated and they're

643
00:37:25,721 --> 00:37:28,721
Speaker 2: looked after in a home of some descriptions.

644
00:37:28,761 --> 00:37:32,521
Speaker 8: Yeah, I believe there's like different levels of you know

645
00:37:32,561 --> 00:37:35,161
Speaker 8: that the company that was running it, there's like different

646
00:37:35,161 --> 00:37:37,241
Speaker 8: care homes, and I think they have different.

647
00:37:37,921 --> 00:37:39,361
Speaker 5: Levels of care. Like some of them.

648
00:37:39,441 --> 00:37:42,321
Speaker 8: Some of the houses don't necessarily need to have like supervision.

649
00:37:42,601 --> 00:37:45,881
Speaker 8: Some have like intense supervision or such, you know. But

650
00:37:46,001 --> 00:37:48,801
Speaker 8: the house there around the corner, I know that there

651
00:37:48,801 --> 00:37:53,681
Speaker 8: should have been some supervision. But when I'm led to

652
00:37:53,681 --> 00:37:57,201
Speaker 8: believe the person doing that had gone on annual leave

653
00:37:57,241 --> 00:38:00,161
Speaker 8: and just left and then no one had taken their place.

654
00:38:00,321 --> 00:38:02,801
Speaker 5: No one was monitoring that house, you know. So were you.

655
00:38:02,841 --> 00:38:04,641
Speaker 2: Aware that there was a residential care?

656
00:38:05,401 --> 00:38:07,801
Speaker 8: No knew nothing about it now, So they try to

657
00:38:07,881 --> 00:38:11,001
Speaker 8: keep it quiet because some of the people in the

658
00:38:11,161 --> 00:38:15,521
Speaker 8: houses are dealing with maybe domestic violence issues or you know,

659
00:38:15,801 --> 00:38:18,281
Speaker 8: parental issues, and they don't necessarily want the parents or

660
00:38:18,321 --> 00:38:20,721
Speaker 8: other family members known where these houses are to come

661
00:38:20,921 --> 00:38:24,361
Speaker 8: and get the kids or whatever on a few teens whatever.

662
00:38:24,921 --> 00:38:28,201
Speaker 2: These two boys are seventeen years old. Are they related

663
00:38:28,201 --> 00:38:30,761
Speaker 2: to each other? Not the mowhare of known and they're

664
00:38:30,761 --> 00:38:33,201
Speaker 2: both living in this residential carehouse.

665
00:38:33,361 --> 00:38:33,401
Speaker 4: No.

666
00:38:33,761 --> 00:38:35,521
Speaker 5: See, this is the thing. They should never have been there.

667
00:38:36,161 --> 00:38:38,841
Speaker 8: While I've been told by the polices that they were,

668
00:38:39,881 --> 00:38:41,841
Speaker 8: they were both should have just been staying with their

669
00:38:41,881 --> 00:38:44,681
Speaker 8: own families in One.

670
00:38:44,521 --> 00:38:46,161
Speaker 5: Should have been in Zilmia, one should have been in

671
00:38:46,161 --> 00:38:46,721
Speaker 5: Holland Park.

672
00:38:47,161 --> 00:38:50,641
Speaker 8: But I believe that one of them was let out

673
00:38:50,641 --> 00:38:58,521
Speaker 8: on bail boxing day morning afternoon and instead of going home,

674
00:38:59,201 --> 00:39:02,481
Speaker 8: then got transport up to North Lakes along with the

675
00:39:02,521 --> 00:39:07,081
Speaker 8: other one and they were sported or they'd been at

676
00:39:07,081 --> 00:39:10,761
Speaker 8: that house from like four thirty pm that afternoon. The

677
00:39:10,881 --> 00:39:13,601
Speaker 8: police can track their whereabouts from four thirty pm until

678
00:39:14,201 --> 00:39:15,081
Speaker 8: the event our house.

679
00:39:15,241 --> 00:39:17,321
Speaker 5: Yeah.

680
00:39:17,601 --> 00:39:19,401
Speaker 2: Were were they on drugs at the time?

681
00:39:19,601 --> 00:39:21,801
Speaker 8: I'm not too sure at the time, but I believe

682
00:39:22,121 --> 00:39:24,481
Speaker 8: the main go involved in our case had.

683
00:39:27,121 --> 00:39:27,321
Speaker 4: Yes.

684
00:39:27,641 --> 00:39:30,521
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I'd been doing drugs for at least three days. Yeah.

685
00:39:31,001 --> 00:39:33,561
Speaker 2: So you find out this to seventeen year olds have

686
00:39:33,601 --> 00:39:36,921
Speaker 2: been arrested. What you're feeling at that stage, is there

687
00:39:36,961 --> 00:39:40,361
Speaker 2: anger and are you how are you feeling when you

688
00:39:40,441 --> 00:39:44,520
Speaker 2: hear that they've been arrested? Is it like thank God?

689
00:39:44,761 --> 00:39:46,481
Speaker 2: Or is it like I want to know who these

690
00:39:46,481 --> 00:39:47,201
Speaker 2: fuckers are.

691
00:39:51,081 --> 00:39:54,081
Speaker 8: It's gonna sound funny to say, but I don't I

692
00:39:54,121 --> 00:39:56,801
Speaker 8: think I thought a lot, to be honest, I think

693
00:39:56,841 --> 00:39:58,561
Speaker 8: I was just so numb back then that like I

694
00:39:58,641 --> 00:40:01,081
Speaker 8: wasn't any feeling about anything, and I just.

695
00:40:03,961 --> 00:40:05,361
Speaker 5: I don't know. I suppose I just.

696
00:40:07,041 --> 00:40:09,721
Speaker 8: Trying to absorb what was happening for you know, the

697
00:40:09,761 --> 00:40:12,281
Speaker 8: girls and I and Emma, and I didn't really think

698
00:40:12,321 --> 00:40:14,361
Speaker 8: a lot about anything else. I suppose in some ways,

699
00:40:15,401 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 8: maybe I was glad they got they were caught, I suppose.

700
00:40:17,721 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 4: And.

701
00:40:20,121 --> 00:40:24,641
Speaker 8: Didn't surprise me they I suppose they were, you know, youths.

702
00:40:25,641 --> 00:40:29,641
Speaker 5: But I don't know.

703
00:40:29,681 --> 00:40:35,281
Speaker 8: I don't I don't think I really felt angry. I

704
00:40:35,321 --> 00:40:38,081
Speaker 8: suppose I'm not genuinely like an angry sort of person.

705
00:40:38,121 --> 00:40:41,601
Speaker 8: And even now, like I I struggled to feel anger

706
00:40:41,681 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 8: towards them, you know, I don't know. I understands really

707
00:40:44,521 --> 00:40:47,081
Speaker 8: like bizarre at center to feel. But most people would

708
00:40:47,121 --> 00:40:49,121
Speaker 8: be like, oh, you know, like you if you had

709
00:40:49,121 --> 00:40:51,081
Speaker 8: a if they were in a room alone. You know,

710
00:40:51,121 --> 00:40:54,121
Speaker 8: what would you do that? I suppose that's not me

711
00:40:54,201 --> 00:41:00,081
Speaker 8: and I just I don't know, like maybe that Yeah,

712
00:41:00,161 --> 00:41:04,721
Speaker 8: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't It's

713
00:41:04,721 --> 00:41:07,321
Speaker 8: a fount. Like I said, I didn't at the time

714
00:41:07,761 --> 00:41:08,361
Speaker 8: feel anger.

715
00:41:08,401 --> 00:41:08,761
Speaker 5: I don't know.

716
00:41:08,921 --> 00:41:13,321
Speaker 2: So I wanted to find out more about how this

717
00:41:13,401 --> 00:41:16,201
Speaker 2: type of social housing works, what it's used for, and

718
00:41:16,241 --> 00:41:18,241
Speaker 2: can we or should we know if one of those

719
00:41:18,241 --> 00:41:21,681
Speaker 2: houses is down the road from our house now. A

720
00:41:21,721 --> 00:41:24,641
Speaker 2: residential care house in Australia refers to a type of

721
00:41:24,641 --> 00:41:27,721
Speaker 2: accommodation where young people, often those who are at risk

722
00:41:28,041 --> 00:41:32,041
Speaker 2: or vulnerable, are provided with care and supervision. These houses

723
00:41:32,121 --> 00:41:35,321
Speaker 2: are typically part of the child protection and welfare system

724
00:41:35,761 --> 00:41:38,801
Speaker 2: and are designed to provide a stable living environment for

725
00:41:38,921 --> 00:41:42,561
Speaker 2: children and adolescents who can't live with their families due

726
00:41:42,601 --> 00:41:48,721
Speaker 2: to various reasons like neglect, abuse, or family breakdowns. In Queensland,

727
00:41:48,801 --> 00:41:52,601
Speaker 2: regulations governing residential carehouse fall under the broader framework of

728
00:41:52,681 --> 00:41:57,121
Speaker 2: Child Protection and out of home care services. These regulations

729
00:41:57,121 --> 00:41:59,921
Speaker 2: are managed by the Department of Children, Youth, Justice and

730
00:42:00,001 --> 00:42:04,281
Speaker 2: Multicultural Affairs. There were some interesting stats that were given

731
00:42:04,281 --> 00:42:07,201
Speaker 2: as part of a you into residential care in twenty

732
00:42:07,241 --> 00:42:12,081
Speaker 2: twenty three. On the thirtieth of June twenty nineteen, there

733
00:42:12,121 --> 00:42:14,561
Speaker 2: were nine hundred and fifty one children who were being

734
00:42:14,601 --> 00:42:18,561
Speaker 2: cared for in residential care services. By June thirty of

735
00:42:18,601 --> 00:42:22,681
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, this number had almost doubled to seventeen

736
00:42:22,761 --> 00:42:26,721
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty three people. The needs of children and

737
00:42:26,761 --> 00:42:29,761
Speaker 2: young people living in residential care are different to the

738
00:42:29,801 --> 00:42:32,921
Speaker 2: needs of children and young people living in family based care.

739
00:42:33,161 --> 00:42:36,361
Speaker 2: Children and young people in residential care are more likely

740
00:42:36,401 --> 00:42:40,961
Speaker 2: to experience significant disability or mental health concerns. They've either

741
00:42:41,121 --> 00:42:45,041
Speaker 2: experienced physical and or sexual abuse, and can be disconnected

742
00:42:45,041 --> 00:42:50,401
Speaker 2: from pro social relationships, including families and schools. It makes

743
00:42:50,441 --> 00:42:52,601
Speaker 2: sense that we need this sort of support for our

744
00:42:52,641 --> 00:42:55,881
Speaker 2: young people who can't live with their parents for whatever reason,

745
00:42:56,081 --> 00:42:58,921
Speaker 2: and it also makes sense that these locations aren't made

746
00:42:58,961 --> 00:43:02,081
Speaker 2: public giving the nature of some of the young people

747
00:43:02,201 --> 00:43:03,401
Speaker 2: that are housed there.

748
00:43:05,321 --> 00:43:05,481
Speaker 5: Now.

749
00:43:05,521 --> 00:43:07,841
Speaker 2: On purpose, in this podcast, we've decided not to look

750
00:43:07,881 --> 00:43:11,201
Speaker 2: at the politics around the ticking time bomb that is

751
00:43:11,281 --> 00:43:14,001
Speaker 2: youth crime. However, we have linked in the show notes

752
00:43:14,041 --> 00:43:16,521
Speaker 2: the current pledge from the Queensland government on the one

753
00:43:16,521 --> 00:43:19,481
Speaker 2: point two to eight billion dollars they plan on spending

754
00:43:19,521 --> 00:43:22,761
Speaker 2: to tackle the issue. As mentioned, we have reached out

755
00:43:22,801 --> 00:43:25,801
Speaker 2: to the current Premier's office and we had no response

756
00:43:25,921 --> 00:43:29,361
Speaker 2: prior to releasing this show. In the next few episodes,

757
00:43:29,401 --> 00:43:31,201
Speaker 2: we're going to move between the story of what happened

758
00:43:31,241 --> 00:43:34,441
Speaker 2: to Lee and his family and Aaron and Christine's story

759
00:43:34,921 --> 00:43:37,121
Speaker 2: about how you pick up the pieces when something like

760
00:43:37,161 --> 00:43:39,921
Speaker 2: this tragedy happens, but also we're going to try to

761
00:43:40,001 --> 00:43:42,721
Speaker 2: understand what some of the answers might be. We're going

762
00:43:42,761 --> 00:43:44,961
Speaker 2: to hear from police who are on the front line.

763
00:43:45,041 --> 00:43:47,241
Speaker 2: They're going to do this anonymously as they didn't want

764
00:43:47,241 --> 00:43:49,721
Speaker 2: to go on record. We actually did ask police for

765
00:43:49,761 --> 00:43:53,281
Speaker 2: an official statement, however, they've decided not to come on

766
00:43:53,321 --> 00:43:56,041
Speaker 2: the podcast. We're going to hear from people behind the scenes,

767
00:43:56,161 --> 00:43:58,521
Speaker 2: working with both youth in this state and in other

768
00:43:58,601 --> 00:44:01,521
Speaker 2: states who have used what's happening in Queensland as a

769
00:44:01,601 --> 00:44:04,401
Speaker 2: bad poster boys story to not let it happen in

770
00:44:04,521 --> 00:44:08,481
Speaker 2: their date in Australia. I'd like to finish this episode

771
00:44:08,561 --> 00:44:11,761
Speaker 2: with Aaron and Christine who are on the way to recovery.

772
00:44:11,921 --> 00:44:15,721
Speaker 2: They moved house, they installed security and Aaron had a plan.

773
00:44:16,201 --> 00:44:20,521
Speaker 2: It included a baseball bat under the bed. Lots of

774
00:44:20,521 --> 00:44:23,921
Speaker 2: people told Aaron that he wouldn't need that baseball bat.

775
00:44:24,081 --> 00:44:28,241
Speaker 2: It would be unlikely that this would ever happen again, until,

776
00:44:28,241 --> 00:44:29,881
Speaker 2: of course it did.

777
00:44:30,321 --> 00:44:33,521
Speaker 1: We heard the noises coming from the garage, and I

778
00:44:33,561 --> 00:44:35,841
Speaker 1: had this wonderful, great plan that I'd worked up with

779
00:44:35,881 --> 00:44:38,881
Speaker 1: my psychologist stuff the incident, that if it ever happens again,

780
00:44:39,521 --> 00:44:41,681
Speaker 1: I'm going to grab the baseball bat. I'm going to

781
00:44:42,041 --> 00:44:43,761
Speaker 1: check the lock on the door as working, and I'm

782
00:44:43,801 --> 00:44:46,201
Speaker 1: going to phone Triple zero and I'm going to tell

783
00:44:46,241 --> 00:44:49,041
Speaker 1: the people who pick up the call that I've been

784
00:44:49,081 --> 00:44:51,921
Speaker 1: involved in a violent home invasion previously, and I don't

785
00:44:51,921 --> 00:44:54,801
Speaker 1: need the police to come straight away. I don't know

786
00:44:54,841 --> 00:44:56,440
Speaker 1: what happened in my mind at that point in time,

787
00:44:56,441 --> 00:44:58,041
Speaker 1: but I did exactly the same thing as what I

788
00:44:58,081 --> 00:45:00,361
Speaker 1: did in the first incident. And I've got up and

789
00:45:00,401 --> 00:45:02,881
Speaker 1: I've raced out, opened the door and raced down the stairs.

790
00:45:02,961 --> 00:45:07,281
Speaker 1: And then there's the police. They said that they've had

791
00:45:07,481 --> 00:45:10,401
Speaker 1: people in your home. They've been doing a bit of

792
00:45:10,401 --> 00:45:13,921
Speaker 1: a spray around the neighborhood. I asked them how they

793
00:45:14,001 --> 00:45:15,761
Speaker 1: got in. They see the garage door was up, and

794
00:45:15,801 --> 00:45:18,161
Speaker 1: then we started to look around the house and all

795
00:45:18,241 --> 00:45:23,161
Speaker 1: kitchen drawers are open and inside bedroom door.

796
00:45:23,441 --> 00:45:29,761
Speaker 4: Yeah, there was blood up the staircase, so yeah, up

797
00:45:29,801 --> 00:45:31,161
Speaker 4: the staircase to our bedroom.

798
00:45:31,401 --> 00:45:34,361
Speaker 3: So who knows whether they had tried the lock and

799
00:45:34,361 --> 00:45:35,081
Speaker 3: couldn't get in.

800
00:45:37,201 --> 00:45:38,801
Speaker 4: Seems potentially likely.

801
00:45:40,201 --> 00:45:44,841
Speaker 3: I mean, that was you know, retriggering the trauma again.

802
00:45:45,081 --> 00:46:26,121
Speaker 3: But you know, the lockworks, the lockworks,