1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,281 Speaker 1: Approche production. 2 00:00:10,361 --> 00:00:12,761 Speaker 2: In the last episode of Who's to Blame, we heard 3 00:00:12,841 --> 00:00:15,321 Speaker 2: one of the seventeen year olds that had broken into 4 00:00:15,441 --> 00:00:18,921 Speaker 2: Leon Emma's house and killed Emma on Boxing Day in 5 00:00:18,961 --> 00:00:22,841 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two had done this before. The only main 6 00:00:22,881 --> 00:00:26,441 Speaker 2: difference was that the time before no one died. Aaron 7 00:00:26,481 --> 00:00:29,441 Speaker 2: and his wife Christine continue to tell their story. 8 00:00:29,841 --> 00:00:32,921 Speaker 3: This Sunday night, we went to bed and it happened 9 00:00:32,921 --> 00:00:38,001 Speaker 3: the wee hours of Monday morning, about twelve thirty ish. Yeah, 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,681 Speaker 3: it was a really quiet weekend actually because we were 11 00:00:40,681 --> 00:00:43,121 Speaker 3: actually in lockdown, and it was one of those snap 12 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 3: lockdowns for COVID that had actually only been lifted at 13 00:00:46,921 --> 00:00:52,321 Speaker 3: four pm on the Sunday evening, So we had a 14 00:00:52,441 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 3: really quiet weekend. I think we're in bed at like 15 00:00:54,801 --> 00:00:57,721 Speaker 3: six or six thirty, like Jerry, a. 16 00:00:57,801 --> 00:01:02,121 Speaker 1: Trick hour distinct thing, really early to bed. Yeah, it 17 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,481 Speaker 1: was just a quiet weekend. 18 00:01:03,801 --> 00:01:06,641 Speaker 3: I had got up to go the bars through and 19 00:01:06,721 --> 00:01:11,281 Speaker 3: so I hadn't quite fallen back to sleep, and then 20 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:18,481 Speaker 3: I heard noises which I thought initially sounded like possums potentially, 21 00:01:19,721 --> 00:01:22,641 Speaker 3: and then the more I listened, the more it felt 22 00:01:22,721 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: like footsteps. 23 00:01:26,521 --> 00:01:28,761 Speaker 2: And were you thinking those footsteps at the time, were 24 00:01:29,121 --> 00:01:30,121 Speaker 2: inside your house. 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Or outside of your house? 26 00:01:31,681 --> 00:01:35,801 Speaker 3: Inside our bedroom is on the top was on the 27 00:01:35,801 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 3: top floor of that house. You were awake, I think Aaron, 28 00:01:42,321 --> 00:01:46,681 Speaker 3: and so I was whispering to him, up, I think 29 00:01:46,721 --> 00:01:47,801 Speaker 3: someone's in the house. 30 00:01:49,761 --> 00:01:51,881 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's right. I mean, it's odd, isn't it. 31 00:01:51,921 --> 00:01:54,801 Speaker 1: The recollection we both had is my recollection was I 32 00:01:54,841 --> 00:01:57,921 Speaker 1: was whispering to you someone's in the house, because I 33 00:01:57,921 --> 00:02:02,561 Speaker 1: also heard some noises as well. But I don't think 34 00:02:02,681 --> 00:02:06,521 Speaker 1: the reality of someone being else was truly going through 35 00:02:06,561 --> 00:02:09,001 Speaker 1: my mind. You know, you sort of do hear noises 36 00:02:09,041 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: at night. I think I remember having a conversation reflecting 37 00:02:13,841 --> 00:02:17,121 Speaker 1: a little bit, thinking maybe it was an animal, because 38 00:02:17,121 --> 00:02:20,081 Speaker 1: at that point in time, I certainly didn't have any 39 00:02:20,121 --> 00:02:22,761 Speaker 1: fearful emotion going through my body. It was just a 40 00:02:22,761 --> 00:02:24,881 Speaker 1: bit of noise and just this old little conversation we 41 00:02:24,881 --> 00:02:25,321 Speaker 1: were having. 42 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,041 Speaker 2: Had you ever talked about that prior, like in a 43 00:02:31,121 --> 00:02:33,761 Speaker 2: party with friends that had been broken into anything like that, 44 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 2: Had that sort of someone being in your house of 45 00:02:36,761 --> 00:02:39,721 Speaker 2: what do we do? Conversation ever happened between the two 46 00:02:39,761 --> 00:02:39,921 Speaker 2: of you. 47 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:46,201 Speaker 1: No, no, no, definitely not there was. There was definitely 48 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 1: no conversation I can tell there was definitely no battle 49 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,321 Speaker 1: plan if we were confronted. 50 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,361 Speaker 2: With it, you know, to use my own experience, I 51 00:02:53,441 --> 00:02:56,321 Speaker 2: sleep with a baseball bat under my bed. I always 52 00:02:56,401 --> 00:02:58,761 Speaker 2: have for a long time. I've got a samurai saw 53 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,201 Speaker 2: it in the cupboard. I don't know what I'd do 54 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: with either of them, to be honest, not that way incline. 55 00:03:05,601 --> 00:03:07,041 Speaker 2: But so you. 56 00:03:07,001 --> 00:03:08,601 Speaker 4: Didn't have any of that, didn't have it. 57 00:03:08,721 --> 00:03:11,761 Speaker 1: We do now, but not none. 58 00:03:11,641 --> 00:03:13,521 Speaker 4: Of that because it was August. 59 00:03:13,601 --> 00:03:16,361 Speaker 3: We're slate with our bedroom door open, because none of 60 00:03:16,361 --> 00:03:19,561 Speaker 3: the kids were living with it or were with us 61 00:03:19,601 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: that at that stage. 62 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:21,361 Speaker 4: Which is great. 63 00:03:26,561 --> 00:03:31,281 Speaker 1: Well, the next thing in my mind was looking down 64 00:03:31,401 --> 00:03:34,041 Speaker 1: the end of the bed and then seeing the figure 65 00:03:34,041 --> 00:03:37,401 Speaker 1: of a person at the end of the bed, so 66 00:03:37,521 --> 00:03:43,921 Speaker 1: in the room. I don't think there was a lot 67 00:03:43,921 --> 00:03:49,041 Speaker 1: of thoughts from this point onwards other than the person. 68 00:03:49,121 --> 00:03:51,601 Speaker 1: I think I started to move and went out of 69 00:03:51,641 --> 00:03:56,601 Speaker 1: the bedroom, and then I jump up and in a 70 00:03:56,761 --> 00:04:00,841 Speaker 1: very loud I feel it was aggressive now telling someone 71 00:04:00,921 --> 00:04:02,401 Speaker 1: to get the f out of my house, and I 72 00:04:02,441 --> 00:04:03,721 Speaker 1: started chasing this person. 73 00:04:05,041 --> 00:04:07,201 Speaker 2: It's a bit out of character for you, right, You're 74 00:04:07,241 --> 00:04:08,201 Speaker 2: not an aggressive guy. 75 00:04:08,641 --> 00:04:11,721 Speaker 1: Oh, entirely out of character. Yeah, no, really anti violence, 76 00:04:11,721 --> 00:04:14,441 Speaker 1: to be frank with her. So this reaction of mine, 77 00:04:14,441 --> 00:04:16,521 Speaker 1: I'm not sure where it came from. I spoken with 78 00:04:16,561 --> 00:04:20,201 Speaker 1: the police and a psychologist about it subsequent to try 79 00:04:20,241 --> 00:04:23,321 Speaker 1: and understand the reaction. Yeah, I understand. It's that typical 80 00:04:23,641 --> 00:04:28,681 Speaker 1: sort of vital flight scenario and the brain sho sort 81 00:04:28,681 --> 00:04:32,001 Speaker 1: of sent me the message that I need to do 82 00:04:32,041 --> 00:04:34,361 Speaker 1: something about this, and I was conscious I want to 83 00:04:34,401 --> 00:04:37,161 Speaker 1: protect my wife, feeling were very vulnerable in that situation. 84 00:04:38,281 --> 00:04:40,681 Speaker 2: Christine, what are you doing at this stage. 85 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,481 Speaker 3: I hadn't seen that there's a person in our bedroom 86 00:04:44,801 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 3: because I was looking at Aaron whispering I think someone's 87 00:04:49,481 --> 00:04:54,561 Speaker 3: in the house, So I didn't have that visual, so 88 00:04:54,601 --> 00:04:58,001 Speaker 3: I didn't really know how close they were. But Aaron 89 00:04:58,081 --> 00:05:01,441 Speaker 3: did get up and did start making a lot of noise, 90 00:05:02,361 --> 00:05:04,001 Speaker 3: like a lot of noise. I think you were also 91 00:05:04,081 --> 00:05:07,881 Speaker 3: stamping your feet. You were clapping your hands and like 92 00:05:08,401 --> 00:05:10,961 Speaker 3: really loudly, like it was quite loud for you know, 93 00:05:12,081 --> 00:05:15,401 Speaker 3: one am or whatever it was. Then Aaron yelled out 94 00:05:15,401 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: to me, Duhl, you need to call an ambulance. I'm 95 00:05:18,921 --> 00:05:24,161 Speaker 3: in real trouble. And I had no idea what had happened. 96 00:05:24,161 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 3: It was pitch black, but out of our bedroom there 97 00:05:27,961 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 3: was a landing and then there were like two steps down. 98 00:05:31,961 --> 00:05:35,721 Speaker 3: So in my head I went to maybe he's fallen 99 00:05:35,761 --> 00:05:38,041 Speaker 3: down the stairs, slipped and fallen down the stairs. And 100 00:05:38,081 --> 00:05:41,721 Speaker 3: with all the noise he was making, I couldn't hear anything, 101 00:05:41,921 --> 00:05:43,201 Speaker 3: you know, much else. 102 00:05:43,801 --> 00:05:44,801 Speaker 4: He's either you know. 103 00:05:44,801 --> 00:05:48,241 Speaker 3: Really hurt his back or he's you know, split his 104 00:05:48,241 --> 00:05:53,241 Speaker 3: head open or something. And then I was kind of 105 00:05:53,241 --> 00:05:58,681 Speaker 3: trying to find the phone, and then he was starting 106 00:05:58,721 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 3: to crawl into the bedroom and then there was just 107 00:06:01,041 --> 00:06:06,041 Speaker 3: blood everywhere, and I was got onto the phone to 108 00:06:06,161 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 3: triple O. 109 00:06:09,921 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 110 00:06:14,281 --> 00:06:16,681 Speaker 3: They say, what my memory is? 111 00:06:16,961 --> 00:06:18,041 Speaker 4: What do you need? 112 00:06:18,081 --> 00:06:20,521 Speaker 3: And I said an ambulance and they said what's happened? 113 00:06:20,561 --> 00:06:23,121 Speaker 3: And I said, we've had a home invasion and my 114 00:06:23,201 --> 00:06:26,921 Speaker 3: husband's been stabbed. And then they said we'll get the 115 00:06:26,961 --> 00:06:30,561 Speaker 3: police and the ambulance. And then they ask a lot 116 00:06:30,601 --> 00:06:35,201 Speaker 3: of questions about where the wound is, how many people, 117 00:06:35,921 --> 00:06:37,121 Speaker 3: which I couldn't answer. 118 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:39,241 Speaker 4: I never saw anyone. 119 00:06:41,161 --> 00:06:42,561 Speaker 2: Are you calm at this point. 120 00:06:42,361 --> 00:06:47,401 Speaker 3: Or are you I'm a mess, not crying, but I 121 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,681 Speaker 3: remember just repeating that, repeating to them, please hurry, please hurry, 122 00:06:51,841 --> 00:06:56,481 Speaker 3: please hurry, and answering questions, but like, please hurry, let's 123 00:06:56,481 --> 00:06:56,841 Speaker 3: go to you. 124 00:06:57,401 --> 00:07:01,841 Speaker 2: So we've heard Christine doesn't know what's happened. She knows 125 00:07:01,921 --> 00:07:04,921 Speaker 2: you're in trouble, that you've said. So what happens. You 126 00:07:05,041 --> 00:07:07,561 Speaker 2: get up, you stop your feet, you clap, You tell 127 00:07:07,601 --> 00:07:09,321 Speaker 2: this guy to get the fuck out of your house. 128 00:07:10,561 --> 00:07:13,881 Speaker 1: I chased him, so I remember him then running and 129 00:07:13,921 --> 00:07:16,881 Speaker 1: he ran onto our balcony, so out of door, onto 130 00:07:16,881 --> 00:07:21,801 Speaker 1: our balcony. I sort of from memory sort of slowed 131 00:07:21,801 --> 00:07:23,641 Speaker 1: down and stopped at that point in time because then 132 00:07:23,681 --> 00:07:26,441 Speaker 1: I saw him sort of literally leap over the balustrade, 133 00:07:26,481 --> 00:07:29,801 Speaker 1: and I remember thinking at the time, this is a 134 00:07:29,801 --> 00:07:32,681 Speaker 1: problem for him. It was a big, big drop. Ultimately 135 00:07:32,761 --> 00:07:34,521 Speaker 1: ended up being a problem I heard in terms of 136 00:07:35,601 --> 00:07:38,961 Speaker 1: some damage to his legs. But it was then within 137 00:07:39,001 --> 00:07:42,161 Speaker 1: a split second, I just felt this massive pain in 138 00:07:42,201 --> 00:07:47,481 Speaker 1: the right side of my back and I clapsed the ground. 139 00:07:47,521 --> 00:07:49,281 Speaker 1: At that point in time, I felt I put my 140 00:07:49,361 --> 00:07:52,321 Speaker 1: right hand behind my back and felt it's like it 141 00:07:52,361 --> 00:07:53,921 Speaker 1: felt like a bit a piece of me to being 142 00:07:53,961 --> 00:07:55,761 Speaker 1: cut by a sharp knife that had just opened up. 143 00:07:57,681 --> 00:08:00,881 Speaker 1: And then I felt the blood and I felt my 144 00:08:00,921 --> 00:08:04,881 Speaker 1: body opened up and I didn't see the person, but 145 00:08:05,201 --> 00:08:06,801 Speaker 1: in my head. I knew I had been stabbed. I 146 00:08:07,481 --> 00:08:09,641 Speaker 1: knew it it stabbed, it was it was it was 147 00:08:09,641 --> 00:08:13,761 Speaker 1: an implement that had got me. And then I just 148 00:08:13,761 --> 00:08:16,921 Speaker 1: started crawling to the bedroom, back to Christine and connecting 149 00:08:16,921 --> 00:08:21,161 Speaker 1: the dots. That's when I said, called triple zero. I thought, 150 00:08:21,201 --> 00:08:27,481 Speaker 1: I said, I think I'm gone. But whatever, it was, whatever, 151 00:08:27,641 --> 00:08:30,361 Speaker 1: we both call it time. But yeah, I just remember 152 00:08:30,641 --> 00:08:34,681 Speaker 1: I couldn't walk, and yeah, I knew I was in trouble. 153 00:08:35,001 --> 00:08:35,441 Speaker 2: It was a. 154 00:08:37,721 --> 00:08:40,561 Speaker 1: The realization in life that you just have never had 155 00:08:40,601 --> 00:08:47,401 Speaker 1: before that for the first time, the frailty of your 156 00:08:47,401 --> 00:08:53,401 Speaker 1: situation was brought home immediately and fortunately I'm here. 157 00:08:54,641 --> 00:08:55,761 Speaker 2: Did you think that was the end? 158 00:08:57,201 --> 00:09:00,881 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I for a bit there, I did, didn't. I. 159 00:09:00,081 --> 00:09:04,841 Speaker 1: I was just really worried about it. I just knew 160 00:09:04,881 --> 00:09:07,881 Speaker 1: I I knew I'd been stabbed. I had a realization 161 00:09:07,961 --> 00:09:11,121 Speaker 1: as to what had gone on. And there was a 162 00:09:11,121 --> 00:09:18,401 Speaker 1: lot of blund wasn't there. Yeah, it was crawling, so yeah, yeah, 163 00:09:18,481 --> 00:09:25,401 Speaker 1: I was. I was worried at that point. Yeah. 164 00:09:25,441 --> 00:09:26,361 Speaker 4: My memory is. 165 00:09:28,321 --> 00:09:31,761 Speaker 3: Like there were a lot of police, there were sniffer dogs, 166 00:09:33,521 --> 00:09:39,121 Speaker 3: streets were corded off, the police came in. I was 167 00:09:39,161 --> 00:09:41,801 Speaker 3: obviously scared to answer the door because I didn't know 168 00:09:42,001 --> 00:09:45,441 Speaker 3: who was in the house still after what happened to Aaron. 169 00:09:46,761 --> 00:09:48,081 Speaker 4: But the Trevilo were great. 170 00:09:48,121 --> 00:09:50,841 Speaker 3: They're like, the police will be knocking now, and I'm like, 171 00:09:51,281 --> 00:09:52,561 Speaker 3: how I know it's them, And so. 172 00:09:54,361 --> 00:09:54,961 Speaker 4: That happened. 173 00:09:55,001 --> 00:09:58,161 Speaker 3: So I was downstairs, took the police up to Aaron, 174 00:09:58,281 --> 00:10:01,001 Speaker 3: and then the ambulance. 175 00:10:00,641 --> 00:10:02,281 Speaker 4: Arrived very soon after. 176 00:10:02,801 --> 00:10:05,841 Speaker 3: So then the police started kind of assessing Aaron. I 177 00:10:05,841 --> 00:10:11,681 Speaker 3: think ahead of the ambulance arriving, it was all just happening, 178 00:10:11,721 --> 00:10:15,681 Speaker 3: and you know, a bit kind of you know, you've 179 00:10:15,721 --> 00:10:18,961 Speaker 3: just woken up, you know, horrific things just happened. 180 00:10:19,001 --> 00:10:20,081 Speaker 4: So yeah, I'm not. 181 00:10:20,001 --> 00:10:24,041 Speaker 3: Sure I can remember a great deal other than I 182 00:10:24,121 --> 00:10:26,881 Speaker 3: just wanted to be near Aaron. So the police wanted 183 00:10:26,921 --> 00:10:29,281 Speaker 3: to ask me what happened while I was outside of 184 00:10:29,281 --> 00:10:30,961 Speaker 3: the room, but I kept on wanting to go and 185 00:10:31,761 --> 00:10:34,121 Speaker 3: make sure Aaron was that you know, Aaron knew I 186 00:10:34,281 --> 00:10:34,801 Speaker 3: was around. 187 00:10:36,121 --> 00:10:37,401 Speaker 2: Are you worried for him at the start? 188 00:10:38,601 --> 00:10:41,441 Speaker 4: Yeah, very worried, very worried. 189 00:10:44,161 --> 00:10:50,281 Speaker 3: I do have one distinct memory when Triple O was 190 00:10:50,321 --> 00:10:54,001 Speaker 3: saying to me, let him line on the floor, get 191 00:10:54,041 --> 00:10:57,481 Speaker 3: him a pillow, and I remember thinking, you know, in 192 00:10:57,601 --> 00:11:01,601 Speaker 3: movies when people are saying stay with me, stay with me, 193 00:11:01,641 --> 00:11:03,881 Speaker 3: stay with me, I'm like, I don't actually want him 194 00:11:03,881 --> 00:11:05,801 Speaker 3: to get comfortable because I don't want to close I 195 00:11:05,841 --> 00:11:08,521 Speaker 3: don't want him to close his eyes because what happens 196 00:11:08,521 --> 00:11:13,081 Speaker 3: if he doesn't wake up? So it sounds awful that 197 00:11:13,161 --> 00:11:16,241 Speaker 3: I actually wanted him to be uncomfortable in the sense 198 00:11:16,241 --> 00:11:18,401 Speaker 3: that I wanted him to stay with me. 199 00:11:19,201 --> 00:11:20,001 Speaker 4: Does that make sense? 200 00:11:20,081 --> 00:11:22,841 Speaker 3: Not just light down a comfy pillow and go to 201 00:11:22,921 --> 00:11:25,761 Speaker 3: slap That will stick in my mind forever. 202 00:11:26,761 --> 00:11:29,481 Speaker 2: So guessing you're there fairly quickly the. 203 00:11:30,801 --> 00:11:33,881 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do call them. I think I might have 204 00:11:33,961 --> 00:11:36,441 Speaker 1: a pair of box for sure, ripping them off doing 205 00:11:36,441 --> 00:11:41,481 Speaker 1: this assessment of me. Thankfully, they gave me some good 206 00:11:41,521 --> 00:11:45,801 Speaker 1: drugs that sort the pain. I do have a memory 207 00:11:45,841 --> 00:11:49,041 Speaker 1: of being in the ambulance and I remember there was 208 00:11:49,681 --> 00:11:51,121 Speaker 1: you were with me. I think, weren't you one of 209 00:11:51,161 --> 00:11:53,721 Speaker 1: the paramedics with one of the big needles. And by 210 00:11:53,721 --> 00:11:56,881 Speaker 1: this time I was under control because I was truly medicated, 211 00:11:59,801 --> 00:12:02,161 Speaker 1: and so I remember I remember asking the question what's 212 00:12:02,201 --> 00:12:07,121 Speaker 1: that for that long needle? And the response I got 213 00:12:07,441 --> 00:12:11,041 Speaker 1: These won't be the words, but it was something along 214 00:12:11,081 --> 00:12:14,681 Speaker 1: the lines if We're worried that the knife maybe impacted 215 00:12:14,721 --> 00:12:19,361 Speaker 1: your lungs and that we might have to break through 216 00:12:19,361 --> 00:12:22,081 Speaker 1: your rib cage to flat your lungs to get you 217 00:12:22,081 --> 00:12:25,041 Speaker 1: to the hospital for surgery. They just weren't They just 218 00:12:25,561 --> 00:12:27,721 Speaker 1: they didn't know what damage had been caused. Obviously at 219 00:12:27,721 --> 00:12:30,201 Speaker 1: that point in time. The rest of the little blurry 220 00:12:30,601 --> 00:12:34,041 Speaker 1: Christine better probably fill it in. But it was in 221 00:12:34,081 --> 00:12:36,801 Speaker 1: the emergency. I remember it was warm. 222 00:12:37,361 --> 00:12:40,281 Speaker 3: You were taken into No, you were taken into a 223 00:12:41,561 --> 00:12:43,801 Speaker 3: I have these rooms in the hospital where you've been 224 00:12:44,161 --> 00:12:48,761 Speaker 3: in shock, heated assessment room to try and figure out 225 00:12:49,361 --> 00:12:52,481 Speaker 3: what damage and I think they did a scan in 226 00:12:52,521 --> 00:12:56,441 Speaker 3: that room to see what damage had been done. 227 00:12:56,521 --> 00:12:57,761 Speaker 4: Interns. I wasn't there. 228 00:12:57,841 --> 00:13:00,921 Speaker 3: I had to sit outside, so I was in emergency. 229 00:13:01,361 --> 00:13:05,521 Speaker 2: What do you learn after you get out of surgery? 230 00:13:05,561 --> 00:13:07,601 Speaker 2: What do you find out about your injury? 231 00:13:09,241 --> 00:13:13,001 Speaker 1: That I was extremely lucky. The surgeon was a lovely 232 00:13:13,081 --> 00:13:16,761 Speaker 1: lady who came and gave me a post off briefing 233 00:13:18,241 --> 00:13:21,721 Speaker 1: that the knife had come in appeared to have come 234 00:13:21,721 --> 00:13:24,921 Speaker 1: in on an angle on the right side of my back, 235 00:13:25,401 --> 00:13:28,801 Speaker 1: sort of around the middle of my back, making a 236 00:13:28,841 --> 00:13:35,801 Speaker 1: significant flesh wound but missing the vital organs somehow nicked 237 00:13:35,801 --> 00:13:40,401 Speaker 1: my diafe from and my spine pulled it up so 238 00:13:40,801 --> 00:13:47,561 Speaker 1: up into my spine, so I look, I shocked, but 239 00:13:48,321 --> 00:13:52,001 Speaker 1: grateful that ultimately the end of the day it was 240 00:13:52,161 --> 00:13:57,321 Speaker 1: cleaning out a wound and you know, sewing me back 241 00:13:57,401 --> 00:14:00,481 Speaker 1: up again. And I was told at that point in 242 00:14:00,521 --> 00:14:05,241 Speaker 1: time that the guy was just extremely lucky and I 243 00:14:05,321 --> 00:14:06,121 Speaker 1: would recover. 244 00:14:07,801 --> 00:14:10,601 Speaker 2: That weapon that was used. Was that from your home? 245 00:14:10,881 --> 00:14:15,001 Speaker 1: No, they brought it in. Yeah, there was a lot 246 00:14:15,001 --> 00:14:17,401 Speaker 1: of sort of careful analysis done by the police on 247 00:14:18,321 --> 00:14:19,481 Speaker 1: that aspect of it, wasn't it. 248 00:14:19,961 --> 00:14:22,121 Speaker 3: Yeah, they never found the weapon, but we had to 249 00:14:22,121 --> 00:14:23,041 Speaker 3: do a knife for it. 250 00:14:23,201 --> 00:14:25,921 Speaker 2: There were obviously two offenders inside your house. Were there 251 00:14:25,961 --> 00:14:28,841 Speaker 2: others involved that you're now aware of? 252 00:14:29,361 --> 00:14:33,281 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're looking again. This is sort of after required knowledge. 253 00:14:34,881 --> 00:14:37,761 Speaker 1: So when you say obviously two, we think just the two. 254 00:14:38,681 --> 00:14:41,241 Speaker 1: We think the person who put the knife in my 255 00:14:41,361 --> 00:14:46,321 Speaker 1: back had been downstairs in our garage because from recollection, 256 00:14:46,481 --> 00:14:49,841 Speaker 1: you remember someone racing up the stairs after I started 257 00:14:49,881 --> 00:14:54,521 Speaker 1: chasing the first person out. But we now know that 258 00:14:54,561 --> 00:14:56,801 Speaker 1: there was a young fourteen year old was it in 259 00:14:56,841 --> 00:15:02,721 Speaker 1: the car out the front of our house, and that 260 00:15:02,761 --> 00:15:03,601 Speaker 1: person was the driver. 261 00:15:03,801 --> 00:15:04,801 Speaker 2: But that car was stolen. 262 00:15:05,121 --> 00:15:06,641 Speaker 1: Cover stolen had been your. 263 00:15:06,561 --> 00:15:09,041 Speaker 4: Stolin red Hell earlier that night. 264 00:15:11,441 --> 00:15:14,841 Speaker 1: So there was a bit of a spree because oddly enough, 265 00:15:15,801 --> 00:15:18,801 Speaker 1: to divert just briefly, I was sitting getting my haircut 266 00:15:18,801 --> 00:15:22,081 Speaker 1: about twelve months ago, and for whatever reason, I am, 267 00:15:22,201 --> 00:15:25,161 Speaker 1: the hairdress was asking me where I lived and how 268 00:15:25,201 --> 00:15:27,161 Speaker 1: long I'd lived there, and I'd moved from a house 269 00:15:27,161 --> 00:15:29,121 Speaker 1: to house and why And I said that you really 270 00:15:29,121 --> 00:15:31,281 Speaker 1: want to know, And so I told him the reason why. 271 00:15:31,361 --> 00:15:34,601 Speaker 1: And there's this lady sitting next to me who turned 272 00:15:34,641 --> 00:15:37,321 Speaker 1: around and she said, you're not going to believe this, 273 00:15:37,921 --> 00:15:40,761 Speaker 1: but the people that came into your house must have 274 00:15:40,841 --> 00:15:43,161 Speaker 1: broken into my house just prior to you. Because the 275 00:15:43,201 --> 00:15:47,881 Speaker 1: police told me how lucky she was because the next 276 00:15:47,881 --> 00:15:50,041 Speaker 1: person they broke into got stabbed. It was that same 277 00:15:50,121 --> 00:15:53,121 Speaker 1: night at that same time. It was an unreal to 278 00:15:53,321 --> 00:15:57,361 Speaker 1: me having that conversation. So yeah, we learned a lot. 279 00:15:57,881 --> 00:16:01,241 Speaker 1: How much of the whole possible we've put together, They 280 00:16:01,281 --> 00:16:03,401 Speaker 1: don't know, the police will know a lot more. But 281 00:16:04,041 --> 00:16:07,041 Speaker 1: I mean they were wonderful, but they sort of you know, 282 00:16:07,041 --> 00:16:09,161 Speaker 1: at one point I wanted to look at the file, 283 00:16:09,241 --> 00:16:11,041 Speaker 1: and they certainly encouraged me not to do any of that. 284 00:16:11,321 --> 00:16:18,241 Speaker 2: Yeah, listening to Aaron and Christine tell their story, it 285 00:16:18,401 --> 00:16:21,521 Speaker 2: sounds so familiar to Lee's story. And these aren't the 286 00:16:21,601 --> 00:16:24,721 Speaker 2: only two stories like this. We've heard it so many 287 00:16:24,721 --> 00:16:29,361 Speaker 2: times before from an international rugby player, Tottai Kfu and 288 00:16:29,401 --> 00:16:31,961 Speaker 2: his family members who were stabbed in cooper U. 289 00:16:32,841 --> 00:16:36,881 Speaker 5: Dozens of police officers swarmed this suburban street in Coopero, 290 00:16:37,161 --> 00:16:39,441 Speaker 5: only to find out it was home to one of 291 00:16:39,481 --> 00:16:44,201 Speaker 5: Australia's rugby grates. Tottai Kefu had been stabbed trying to 292 00:16:44,241 --> 00:16:47,121 Speaker 5: protect his family in an alleged home invasion. 293 00:16:47,441 --> 00:16:50,721 Speaker 2: He suffered serious wounds to his abdomen, while his wife, 294 00:16:50,841 --> 00:16:53,561 Speaker 2: Rachel was significantly injured on her arm. 295 00:16:53,841 --> 00:16:57,401 Speaker 5: Police alleged mister Kefu's wife was confronted and threatened with 296 00:16:57,481 --> 00:17:01,201 Speaker 5: a knife, demanding she hand over khakeys in the alleged robbery. 297 00:17:01,561 --> 00:17:04,961 Speaker 2: The two adult kids were also slashed, and a name 298 00:17:05,161 --> 00:17:07,521 Speaker 2: who tried to help was assaulted outside. 299 00:17:07,801 --> 00:17:10,761 Speaker 5: One of the alleged defenders, A fifteen year old boy, 300 00:17:11,001 --> 00:17:13,921 Speaker 5: was restrained by a neighbor until police arrived. 301 00:17:14,321 --> 00:17:17,321 Speaker 2: One of the youngest teenagers was out on bail. Of 302 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:18,561 Speaker 2: the time, three. 303 00:17:18,321 --> 00:17:21,441 Speaker 5: Youths have been arrested. One of them, a fifteen year old, 304 00:17:21,521 --> 00:17:24,761 Speaker 5: is facing a string of charges, including four counts of 305 00:17:24,801 --> 00:17:25,921 Speaker 5: attempted murder. 306 00:17:26,321 --> 00:17:29,521 Speaker 2: He also went on to allegedly commit more break ins 307 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,920 Speaker 2: after he was arrested and released over the attack. But 308 00:17:33,961 --> 00:17:36,521 Speaker 2: for now, let's head back to Aaron and Christine. We'll 309 00:17:36,521 --> 00:17:39,961 Speaker 2: talk about the recovery process, not just the physical wounds, 310 00:17:40,360 --> 00:17:43,561 Speaker 2: but the emotional toll it takes on mental health as 311 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: well as the changes had happened after Aaron was. 312 00:17:46,481 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 3: Stabbed significantly in the sense that we've now got security comers, 313 00:17:51,961 --> 00:17:55,241 Speaker 3: which we never had. We do have an alarm system 314 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 3: that when the kids aren't home, we can alarm the 315 00:17:58,921 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 3: whole house and go to sleep, So and that was 316 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,761 Speaker 3: particularly useful for us in the immediate after Martha, and 317 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,281 Speaker 3: we're still quite traumatized. 318 00:18:09,961 --> 00:18:11,761 Speaker 4: We've got a lock in our bedroom. 319 00:18:11,321 --> 00:18:15,281 Speaker 3: Door, so we actually lock ourselves in our bedroom every night. 320 00:18:16,961 --> 00:18:18,801 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the biggest thing. I think for me, 321 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: it was going to be just having that lock on 322 00:18:21,201 --> 00:18:25,440 Speaker 1: the bedroom door and a program in my head that 323 00:18:25,481 --> 00:18:27,721 Speaker 1: I developed with a psychologist over a period of time 324 00:18:27,761 --> 00:18:32,681 Speaker 1: after the incident about what would happen if I'm confronted, 325 00:18:32,721 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 1: Because again, now psychologist is such a lovely lady. I 326 00:18:36,201 --> 00:18:39,441 Speaker 1: just I'm so entirely grateful for the work that she's 327 00:18:39,481 --> 00:18:41,001 Speaker 1: done to help me get to where I am now. 328 00:18:41,241 --> 00:18:43,241 Speaker 1: But she did promise me lightning doesn't strike truce and 329 00:18:43,281 --> 00:18:45,801 Speaker 1: would never have it again. But like you, Joe, I've 330 00:18:45,801 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: got I was encouraged to have a baseball under my bed. 331 00:18:50,521 --> 00:18:53,321 Speaker 1: You know, we talked through the scenario over this unlikely 332 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: event the alarm doesn't go off, the lock on the 333 00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,321 Speaker 1: door gets penetrated, that they happen to just smash in 334 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: the bedroom door because that's locked as well. What's your 335 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,361 Speaker 1: next thing? And I said, I don't know, to get 336 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: a baseball back for the goasebook. Have a baseball bat 337 00:19:08,001 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: under your bed. 338 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:12,801 Speaker 3: And that was really to help us sleep at night, 339 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,120 Speaker 3: because we had terrible periods of just not terrible, just 340 00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 3: not being able to sleep at night. Any slight noise 341 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:24,041 Speaker 3: would send your adrenaline through the roof and then you're 342 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,721 Speaker 3: awake for hours afterwards. 343 00:19:26,001 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 2: How long did you stay there before you get rid 344 00:19:27,681 --> 00:19:29,201 Speaker 2: of that house and leave. 345 00:19:29,241 --> 00:19:33,521 Speaker 3: A long time? So that happened in the August. We 346 00:19:33,561 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: didn't sell, we bought this place. We're currently in the 347 00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 3: February but so we had We did look at a 348 00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 3: few apartments because I thought maybe apartment living, you know, 349 00:19:43,801 --> 00:19:46,681 Speaker 3: there's a few more stages of security to get through. 350 00:19:47,721 --> 00:19:50,801 Speaker 4: Couldn't really easily find something. 351 00:19:50,801 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 3: But I think we're both so traumatized that I actually 352 00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,761 Speaker 3: couldn't get my head around having to move, and Aaron 353 00:19:56,921 --> 00:20:03,681 Speaker 3: was so sick that he was unable to do anything. 354 00:20:03,761 --> 00:20:09,521 Speaker 3: Really like weeks, Basically you're on a walking stick, then 355 00:20:09,721 --> 00:20:11,361 Speaker 3: you were eventually in a wheelchair. 356 00:20:12,721 --> 00:20:13,521 Speaker 4: I was up. 357 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:16,880 Speaker 3: The only thing that really seemed to help your pain 358 00:20:17,201 --> 00:20:19,801 Speaker 3: was hot water bottles would take it away. So I'd 359 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,281 Speaker 3: be up four or five times a night until I'd 360 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,521 Speaker 3: hear him groaning when the water bottle would wear off, 361 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,521 Speaker 3: and so I'd get up again. And so that was 362 00:20:31,521 --> 00:20:34,161 Speaker 3: probably the first six weeks when he was out of hospital. 363 00:20:34,681 --> 00:20:37,041 Speaker 2: So this is the physical aspect of what happened to you. 364 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 2: The knife wound was more than a flesh wound, but 365 00:20:41,041 --> 00:20:45,321 Speaker 2: equally didn't puncher any major arteries or anything like that, which, 366 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 2: as you said, very lucky about. 367 00:20:48,321 --> 00:20:52,521 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the thing that sort of surprised me 368 00:20:52,561 --> 00:20:56,681 Speaker 1: a little bit. So I recovered from the surgery pretty well. 369 00:20:57,041 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 1: I came back home early. Things The first few days 370 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:04,200 Speaker 1: were going pretty well. I was on pain medication, of course, 371 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: but pretty early on I was getting a lot of pain, 372 00:21:10,281 --> 00:21:12,521 Speaker 1: and you know, the doctors were telling me it's normal 373 00:21:12,561 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: to have a lot of pain after a traumatic event 374 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:15,801 Speaker 1: like this, so I was putting it down to that. 375 00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:22,321 Speaker 1: But it was just getting worse and worse. As Christine said, 376 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: I had to start just using a walking stick to 377 00:21:25,281 --> 00:21:31,001 Speaker 1: move anywhere, progressed to a wheelchair. I was up all night. 378 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: The pain was just getting increasingly worse. And again I 379 00:21:36,681 --> 00:21:40,561 Speaker 1: was going to physio and doctors, and I was told, no, 380 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,521 Speaker 1: this is a recovery. You know, these are pains for 381 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,801 Speaker 1: your recovery. And I look back in hindsight to be 382 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,761 Speaker 1: once the JA I think to myself that I should 383 00:21:49,761 --> 00:21:52,001 Speaker 1: have just raced a hospital a lot earlier than I did. 384 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,681 Speaker 1: But it got to a point where it was just unbearable. 385 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: So this period that we're talking about now, with this pain, 386 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,401 Speaker 1: I couldn't deal with anything other than the physical pain. 387 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,160 Speaker 1: At that point in time, I was seeing a psychologist 388 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:10,161 Speaker 1: who was helping me out with the event, but even 389 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: then I couldn't really deal with the event. I was 390 00:22:13,521 --> 00:22:17,521 Speaker 1: in awful, awful pain, and so dealing with the event 391 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: came a little bit down the track once I figured 392 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,321 Speaker 1: out with the pain that it was actually an infection 393 00:22:24,120 --> 00:22:27,481 Speaker 1: that got into my bone, and so by the time 394 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,801 Speaker 1: we got to hospital and started to address that, at 395 00:22:29,801 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 1: one point I was told that I was very close 396 00:22:32,120 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: to death from this. This is the second time, and 397 00:22:36,321 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: so Jay it was it was really dealing with that. 398 00:22:40,281 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: I look back now and just it was really the 399 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: physical pain until I got out of hospital the second time, 400 00:22:48,201 --> 00:22:50,200 Speaker 1: which I was in there for a month or so 401 00:22:51,041 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: and then came home. I'm under nursing care, you know, 402 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,201 Speaker 1: with introvening, the strip of dripping antibotics just sitting above 403 00:22:58,201 --> 00:23:01,801 Speaker 1: my heart. And then once I got over all of that, 404 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,921 Speaker 1: it was then I was able to start to reflect 405 00:23:03,961 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 1: on emotional trauma of it. I spent a lot of 406 00:23:07,201 --> 00:23:10,321 Speaker 1: time with my psychologist who said to me at one 407 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: point in time that the only way to move forward 408 00:23:12,921 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: with all of this is we need to start to 409 00:23:15,241 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: talk about it, and we need to walk through what 410 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 1: happened in as much detail as you can, which I 411 00:23:20,681 --> 00:23:23,561 Speaker 1: started to back then with my psychologist and it was 412 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:28,001 Speaker 1: just so helpful because she helped me unpack it. She 413 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: helped me understand a lot of things, including that these 414 00:23:31,441 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: young offenders who came into our house, we're not there 415 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: because they necessarily want us to do harm to Christine 416 00:23:38,521 --> 00:23:40,481 Speaker 1: and I. It wasn't about that. It wasn't a bandetta 417 00:23:40,481 --> 00:23:44,481 Speaker 1: about us. They were on a spree and our house 418 00:23:44,521 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: they happened to get into, and you know, they had 419 00:23:47,761 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: a violence. They had violence as part of their response 420 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,041 Speaker 1: to anything that goes wrong once they enter our house. 421 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: So once I'd unpacked it, and I think once we moved, 422 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:02,281 Speaker 1: because I was sort of waking up screaming, wasn't I 423 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,561 Speaker 1: at the other place impact it? You know, After a 424 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 1: period of a few months, I started to realize that 425 00:24:10,001 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: the best thing that I can do is talk to 426 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: people who want to talk to me about it, And 427 00:24:14,321 --> 00:24:18,041 Speaker 1: most psychologists said that's probably the best thing to help 428 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:21,001 Speaker 1: you get over it and avoid a late nonset of 429 00:24:21,041 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: PTSD on the track. And so I've just taken the 430 00:24:23,921 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: approach now, friends, family, people who I deal with, clients 431 00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: even who have taken an interest in all of this, 432 00:24:31,321 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: and colleagues in the law industry, and I'm very very 433 00:24:33,761 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: grateful for many of them who want to talk a 434 00:24:36,721 --> 00:24:41,401 Speaker 1: talk and hence, you know, yourself asking do you want 435 00:24:41,441 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: to come and have a chat today about this, and 436 00:24:44,201 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: more than open to do. 437 00:24:45,001 --> 00:24:45,080 Speaker 4: So. 438 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,521 Speaker 2: This is sort of early twenty twenty two. You're starting 439 00:24:49,561 --> 00:24:55,321 Speaker 2: to feel like yourself again. Your body healing, your mind 440 00:24:55,441 --> 00:25:00,921 Speaker 2: is healing, You're dealing with help about how you navigate 441 00:25:00,961 --> 00:25:02,761 Speaker 2: some of the trauma that you've gone through both. 442 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:08,281 Speaker 1: Yeah, early twenty twenty two started to feel like I'm 443 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: moving forward again in my life, just with all of 444 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 1: those things that you've mentioned. 445 00:25:14,521 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 2: Those boys are arrested some period from within. 446 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: So the police were great. They kept us informed fairly 447 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:28,321 Speaker 1: consistently along the way because I wasn't able to identify them. 448 00:25:29,681 --> 00:25:32,281 Speaker 1: It was a circumstantial evidence case for the police with 449 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,241 Speaker 1: the difficult cases, but they did a wonderful job. You know. 450 00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:42,360 Speaker 1: They managed to get some camera footage from our street 451 00:25:42,360 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: where the car left after they came into our house, 452 00:25:47,561 --> 00:25:49,441 Speaker 1: and then they were able to put together a whole 453 00:25:49,481 --> 00:25:52,921 Speaker 1: bunch of footage and other types of evidence to ultimately 454 00:25:52,961 --> 00:25:58,401 Speaker 1: find them, and then some other things. And so I 455 00:25:58,481 --> 00:26:00,921 Speaker 1: was very surprised at how quickly I think arrests were made. 456 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: I think arrests were made within maybe weeks some months. Yeah, 457 00:26:06,481 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: I was surprised because I wasn't able to identify them, 458 00:26:10,481 --> 00:26:15,241 Speaker 1: so I wasn't able to assist, which was disappointing for me. 459 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: But it was dark, the clothing seemed dark that they 460 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: were wearing. I couldn't identify facial features. 461 00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:25,881 Speaker 2: And then you've got all the trauma around it too. 462 00:26:25,961 --> 00:26:30,001 Speaker 1: All the trauma and that difficulty identifying DNA and then 463 00:26:30,761 --> 00:26:33,241 Speaker 1: but look, I couldn't speak more highly about the police 464 00:26:33,241 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: and the case they put together and the charge that 465 00:26:35,281 --> 00:26:37,681 Speaker 1: they brought were attempted murder charges, and I was very 466 00:26:37,681 --> 00:26:40,641 Speaker 1: grateful that they chose to bring charges that I thought 467 00:26:40,681 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: accurately reflected the nature of the crime. 468 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,360 Speaker 2: Were you able to attend the court when those two 469 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:46,201 Speaker 2: boys were convicted? 470 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,801 Speaker 1: So the first boy went to court When we were 471 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: overseas in twenty twenty two, we had a long planned holiday, 472 00:26:56,201 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: and after finding out that that's when the sentencing hearing 473 00:26:59,681 --> 00:27:04,241 Speaker 1: was set down for, we made a deliberate decision not 474 00:27:04,441 --> 00:27:07,441 Speaker 1: to cancel holiday and not to fly back to simply 475 00:27:07,561 --> 00:27:10,360 Speaker 1: attend a court process. We'd love to have been there. 476 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:16,041 Speaker 1: I did a victim impact statement, yeah, which I it 477 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: was really just trying to explain to the offender the 478 00:27:19,801 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: impact that this crime has had on myself and my 479 00:27:23,281 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: wife and our lives. So trying to get through to 480 00:27:27,921 --> 00:27:31,880 Speaker 1: someone who is going to be sentenced and where the 481 00:27:32,001 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: victim impact statement is something that you know, the judges 482 00:27:35,961 --> 00:27:39,441 Speaker 1: do take into account. And the second offender was I 483 00:27:39,481 --> 00:27:46,401 Speaker 1: feel about yeah, and. 484 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 2: So the yeah, we'll both charged with attempted murder. 485 00:27:50,001 --> 00:27:55,681 Speaker 1: I understood they were, but before the matters went through 486 00:27:55,761 --> 00:27:58,761 Speaker 1: the sentencing process. So I got a call from the 487 00:27:58,801 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: former Director of Public Prosecutions here in Queensland and had 488 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,761 Speaker 1: a challenging conversation, not challenging in the sense that was 489 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 1: challenging to how the conversation with him, but challenging in 490 00:28:11,001 --> 00:28:14,041 Speaker 1: the sense that he was doing his job and explaining 491 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 1: to me why the attempted murder charges couldn't be followed 492 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: through by the prosecution. The nature of the case was 493 00:28:22,721 --> 00:28:25,281 Speaker 1: such that it was going to be difficult to prove 494 00:28:25,321 --> 00:28:28,481 Speaker 1: those charges before a court to the criminal standard. All 495 00:28:28,561 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: that was explained to me, which I was very very 496 00:28:31,681 --> 00:28:35,121 Speaker 1: upset about because at that point in time, I think 497 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: I was going through a bit of an anger cycle 498 00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:40,921 Speaker 1: and my attitude was I would rather have a most 499 00:28:40,961 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: serious offenses to be put before the court and let 500 00:28:44,481 --> 00:28:51,681 Speaker 1: the court decide, because that's how I felt about the 501 00:28:51,721 --> 00:28:55,201 Speaker 1: matter in totality, that is that the charge I wanted 502 00:28:55,241 --> 00:28:58,761 Speaker 1: to reflect the impact on me in terms of the 503 00:28:58,841 --> 00:29:02,041 Speaker 1: nature of the crime. So I didn't have a choice 504 00:29:02,041 --> 00:29:04,841 Speaker 1: in it. And that's the way the prosecutorial system works, 505 00:29:05,161 --> 00:29:07,561 Speaker 1: you know, the prosecutors have to run the case before 506 00:29:07,561 --> 00:29:11,601 Speaker 1: the courts. But I was very, very disappointed to find 507 00:29:11,601 --> 00:29:14,481 Speaker 1: out ultimately the charges were downgraded to I'm awful lending. 508 00:29:14,881 --> 00:29:19,601 Speaker 1: But what that meant was just it just left a 509 00:29:19,721 --> 00:29:24,321 Speaker 1: really sort of, I don't know, deflated outcome for us. 510 00:29:24,601 --> 00:29:25,841 Speaker 4: I mean, we looked quite angry. 511 00:29:25,881 --> 00:29:31,601 Speaker 3: I remember being quite angry about the outcome of the 512 00:29:31,721 --> 00:29:35,081 Speaker 3: hearing while we were overseas we found out about the outcome. 513 00:29:36,241 --> 00:29:37,801 Speaker 4: Bit of disbelief. 514 00:29:39,241 --> 00:29:41,521 Speaker 3: And then anger at the second one where we went 515 00:29:41,721 --> 00:29:45,201 Speaker 3: and the contempt that was shown for the court by 516 00:29:45,321 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 3: the accused didn't show up for the first hearing. Just 517 00:29:52,001 --> 00:29:57,121 Speaker 3: couldn't care less, really was the impression I got, And 518 00:29:57,361 --> 00:29:59,601 Speaker 3: you know, very little consequences. 519 00:30:01,161 --> 00:30:07,561 Speaker 2: Can I go to Christmas? How do you spend Christmas? 520 00:30:07,801 --> 00:30:11,441 Speaker 3: We had Christmas here in our new place with all 521 00:30:11,481 --> 00:30:14,721 Speaker 3: the family, which was great, and then we went up 522 00:30:14,761 --> 00:30:18,841 Speaker 3: to the Sunshine Coast. Two days later. 523 00:30:19,241 --> 00:30:22,561 Speaker 2: When do you hear about what happened to Lea and 524 00:30:22,561 --> 00:30:24,801 Speaker 2: Emma Lover? Do you remember that moment? 525 00:30:25,841 --> 00:30:30,601 Speaker 3: I remember reading it on you know, your news feed 526 00:30:31,281 --> 00:30:36,161 Speaker 3: on my phone. I tried not to think too much 527 00:30:36,201 --> 00:30:38,281 Speaker 3: about it, to be honest, because I feel like we've 528 00:30:38,361 --> 00:30:40,401 Speaker 3: just done a lot of work to try and get 529 00:30:40,441 --> 00:30:42,161 Speaker 3: into the headspace that we were in. 530 00:30:42,881 --> 00:30:44,321 Speaker 4: Very much needed a break. 531 00:30:45,601 --> 00:30:48,761 Speaker 3: Like the overseas trip was wonderful, but it did have 532 00:30:48,801 --> 00:30:52,041 Speaker 3: the sentencing, you know, that kind of martyred a little. 533 00:30:52,161 --> 00:30:55,641 Speaker 3: And overseas travel is different to just a holiday by 534 00:30:55,681 --> 00:30:57,521 Speaker 3: the beach. So I felt like we both needed a 535 00:30:57,561 --> 00:30:58,641 Speaker 3: holiday by the beach. 536 00:31:00,081 --> 00:31:03,081 Speaker 1: Yeah, me too. Yeah, I read about it. There's a 537 00:31:03,081 --> 00:31:07,681 Speaker 1: games of reflection on youth crime in the suburbs that 538 00:31:07,761 --> 00:31:09,841 Speaker 1: I didn't know anything about Tilliams and happened to us, 539 00:31:09,881 --> 00:31:15,521 Speaker 1: And it seemed, Joe, they just seemed to be in 540 00:31:15,561 --> 00:31:19,201 Speaker 1: my mind that things were just escalating. They just seemed 541 00:31:19,201 --> 00:31:22,041 Speaker 1: to be more of it, and so I was sort 542 00:31:22,081 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: of deeply saddened and upset by it. But at that 543 00:31:26,041 --> 00:31:28,361 Speaker 1: point in time, again it was just another really piece 544 00:31:28,401 --> 00:31:31,761 Speaker 1: of really sad news, and we were able to reflect 545 00:31:32,321 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: on it because we've been through it, and just in 546 00:31:35,001 --> 00:31:37,601 Speaker 1: a sense to feel very sad for the love of family. 547 00:31:38,321 --> 00:31:40,121 Speaker 1: But quite equally, I remember having a bit of a 548 00:31:40,161 --> 00:31:42,321 Speaker 1: reflection thinking how lucky I was to get through it 549 00:31:42,361 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: and that didn't happen to me. 550 00:31:45,681 --> 00:31:47,921 Speaker 2: And when do you find out that one of the 551 00:31:47,961 --> 00:31:53,281 Speaker 2: boys that was in your house was the person that 552 00:31:53,401 --> 00:31:58,121 Speaker 2: killed Emma. I've had a lot of. 553 00:32:00,961 --> 00:32:04,801 Speaker 1: Contact from the media since my incident, off and on, 554 00:32:07,521 --> 00:32:11,801 Speaker 1: some of which I've engaged with. Others I haven't, but 555 00:32:11,921 --> 00:32:16,121 Speaker 1: I did take a phone call twenty seventh, wasn't that's 556 00:32:16,161 --> 00:32:20,281 Speaker 1: the next time the twenty seventh from someone from the media, 557 00:32:20,361 --> 00:32:26,761 Speaker 1: and the conversation went something along the lines of Aaron, 558 00:32:27,321 --> 00:32:30,681 Speaker 1: you might have heard in the media about the tragic 559 00:32:30,721 --> 00:32:36,601 Speaker 1: circumstances involving at a level, do you mind if I 560 00:32:36,681 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: mention a name to you, because we think in the 561 00:32:39,481 --> 00:32:42,801 Speaker 1: media that one of the individuals who was involved in 562 00:32:42,841 --> 00:32:47,681 Speaker 1: your matter was also involved in that. And so I said, 563 00:32:47,681 --> 00:32:51,281 Speaker 1: that's fine. And I was on the phone and the 564 00:32:51,401 --> 00:33:02,201 Speaker 1: journal mentioned this young person's name, and that was harrowing. 565 00:33:03,201 --> 00:33:05,801 Speaker 1: I just said to the journal, just give me a second. 566 00:33:05,841 --> 00:33:08,681 Speaker 1: I put the phone down and I said to my 567 00:33:08,761 --> 00:33:13,921 Speaker 1: wife journo has just put this name forward, and I 568 00:33:14,001 --> 00:33:16,921 Speaker 1: asked you your reflection on the name, and we were 569 00:33:16,921 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: both in agreement that having regard to the name, it 570 00:33:19,761 --> 00:33:24,041 Speaker 1: was the same person who was sentenced for offenses associated 571 00:33:24,041 --> 00:33:28,081 Speaker 1: with the crime against us. And I was able to 572 00:33:28,161 --> 00:33:31,321 Speaker 1: then say to the journalist that that name is the 573 00:33:31,361 --> 00:33:35,961 Speaker 1: same person. And that's when we found out, and that 574 00:33:36,081 --> 00:33:40,961 Speaker 1: then escalated in our minds, both from an emotional perspective, 575 00:33:40,961 --> 00:33:43,361 Speaker 1: and I was feeling very physically unwell about all of 576 00:33:43,361 --> 00:33:48,641 Speaker 1: this at the time, a lot of thoughts because having 577 00:33:48,681 --> 00:33:54,601 Speaker 1: found out about that day, that twenty seventh, it was unbelievable, 578 00:33:55,721 --> 00:33:59,441 Speaker 1: and not only unbelievable that it happened, because the same 579 00:33:59,481 --> 00:34:04,761 Speaker 1: person was involved, and we've just seen someone being sentenced 580 00:34:04,761 --> 00:34:07,801 Speaker 1: a month earlier, and here we go, someone's now dead. 581 00:34:09,841 --> 00:34:14,681 Speaker 1: I personally actually felt a little bit of guilt. Maybe 582 00:34:14,681 --> 00:34:18,281 Speaker 1: I didn't do enough, you know, going through my head 583 00:34:18,281 --> 00:34:21,521 Speaker 1: about the charges being downgraded to I'm awful wounding. It's 584 00:34:21,521 --> 00:34:26,001 Speaker 1: obviously impacted the sentence. Did I do enough to advocate 585 00:34:26,121 --> 00:34:30,241 Speaker 1: for some change that could have saved Emma? I don't know. 586 00:34:30,601 --> 00:34:33,921 Speaker 1: It just that was a very very difficult time, and 587 00:34:33,961 --> 00:34:39,201 Speaker 1: I've felt a lot of guilt about that. Can I 588 00:34:39,241 --> 00:34:44,361 Speaker 1: just say we're doing really well when that was harrowing 589 00:34:44,441 --> 00:34:47,641 Speaker 1: and backing it? But you feel a bit like it 590 00:34:47,921 --> 00:34:49,841 Speaker 1: all of the time. There's so much that goes on 591 00:34:49,881 --> 00:34:52,401 Speaker 1: in the media. I just I don't know whether it's 592 00:34:52,481 --> 00:34:55,761 Speaker 1: because we've been through this that I'm more alert to 593 00:34:56,201 --> 00:34:59,801 Speaker 1: youth crime and you know what gets reported in the media, 594 00:34:59,841 --> 00:35:02,281 Speaker 1: but I feel I'm just hearing it all the time. 595 00:35:02,401 --> 00:35:05,001 Speaker 1: So you never escape from the reminder of it all. 596 00:35:05,241 --> 00:35:07,721 Speaker 1: You just get better again sort of dealing with it. 597 00:35:09,561 --> 00:35:11,521 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of triggers that still go on. 598 00:35:11,881 --> 00:35:14,961 Speaker 1: It'll be years before we wake up one day and 599 00:35:15,001 --> 00:35:16,321 Speaker 1: we don't have a trigger about this. 600 00:35:21,361 --> 00:35:23,521 Speaker 2: Let's head forward a year and a bit later to 601 00:35:23,641 --> 00:35:27,161 Speaker 2: Emma and Lee Lovell's house in North Lakes when police 602 00:35:27,281 --> 00:35:31,361 Speaker 2: arrests two people and later charge them with murder. One 603 00:35:31,401 --> 00:35:34,321 Speaker 2: of them is the same boy that stabbed Aaron back 604 00:35:34,321 --> 00:35:35,521 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one. 605 00:35:36,201 --> 00:35:40,561 Speaker 6: And through some very good investigative skills demonstrated by the detectives, 606 00:35:41,041 --> 00:35:46,441 Speaker 6: they managed to locate four persons who were taken into custody. 607 00:35:47,201 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 6: I can say at this point in time that two 608 00:35:49,481 --> 00:35:53,081 Speaker 6: of those people or seventeen year old boy from Zornia 609 00:35:53,601 --> 00:35:56,361 Speaker 6: and a seventeen year old boy from Holland Park will 610 00:35:56,401 --> 00:36:01,601 Speaker 6: be charged later today with murder, attempted murder and break 611 00:36:01,641 --> 00:36:02,161 Speaker 6: an enter. 612 00:36:07,961 --> 00:36:13,281 Speaker 2: When do you hear that they've arrested the two boys 613 00:36:13,521 --> 00:36:14,721 Speaker 2: that were in your house that night? 614 00:36:15,161 --> 00:36:16,841 Speaker 7: I'm not really too sure to be on us. Like 615 00:36:17,961 --> 00:36:19,521 Speaker 7: I probably would have said it was like later on 616 00:36:19,561 --> 00:36:22,561 Speaker 7: that day. I think later on that day, like the 617 00:36:22,601 --> 00:36:26,281 Speaker 7: police came round and uh, a couple of detectives there, 618 00:36:26,401 --> 00:36:28,121 Speaker 7: So I think I would have found out there, But 619 00:36:28,161 --> 00:36:30,641 Speaker 7: I'm not exactly too sure, but it was probably the 620 00:36:30,681 --> 00:36:32,601 Speaker 7: next day, I'm guessing, you know a few hours later 621 00:36:32,721 --> 00:36:34,841 Speaker 7: I was told, cause I do know since then I 622 00:36:34,881 --> 00:36:38,641 Speaker 7: have found out that within you know, three or four hours, 623 00:36:38,681 --> 00:36:40,281 Speaker 7: and they'd got them at the house around the car 624 00:36:40,401 --> 00:36:43,961 Speaker 7: from us. Yeah, and how did they get the uh, 625 00:36:44,041 --> 00:36:45,281 Speaker 7: partly through sniffer dogs. 626 00:36:45,281 --> 00:36:45,801 Speaker 2: I think. 627 00:36:48,441 --> 00:36:50,561 Speaker 7: Maybe I think the police knew that there was a 628 00:36:50,561 --> 00:36:52,961 Speaker 7: a residential care house around the corner from us, and 629 00:36:54,881 --> 00:36:59,041 Speaker 7: so yeah, maybe they tried there and then there was 630 00:36:59,081 --> 00:37:00,960 Speaker 7: I think maybe a person that had answered the door. 631 00:37:01,001 --> 00:37:03,841 Speaker 7: And then while the while the police were talking to 632 00:37:03,921 --> 00:37:06,321 Speaker 7: the personal's door, I think they they had heard noises 633 00:37:06,361 --> 00:37:08,361 Speaker 7: in the back or something, so gone in and then 634 00:37:09,121 --> 00:37:11,520 Speaker 7: found the two people hiding under a blanket in another 635 00:37:11,561 --> 00:37:12,201 Speaker 7: bedroom or something. 636 00:37:12,241 --> 00:37:17,121 Speaker 2: So so let's quickly talk about the residential care. That's 637 00:37:17,161 --> 00:37:20,401 Speaker 2: a place where I guess juveniles go or can go 638 00:37:20,641 --> 00:37:25,641 Speaker 2: on parole or where they've been not incarcerated and they're 639 00:37:25,721 --> 00:37:28,721 Speaker 2: looked after in a home of some descriptions. 640 00:37:28,761 --> 00:37:32,521 Speaker 7: Yeah, I believe there's like different levels of you know 641 00:37:32,561 --> 00:37:35,161 Speaker 7: that the company that was running it, there's like different 642 00:37:35,161 --> 00:37:37,241 Speaker 7: care homes, and I think they have different. 643 00:37:37,921 --> 00:37:39,361 Speaker 2: Levels of care. Like some of them. 644 00:37:39,441 --> 00:37:42,321 Speaker 7: Some of the houses don't necessarily need to have like supervision. 645 00:37:42,601 --> 00:37:45,881 Speaker 7: Some have like intense supervision or such, you know. But 646 00:37:46,001 --> 00:37:48,801 Speaker 7: the house there around the corner, I know that there 647 00:37:48,801 --> 00:37:53,681 Speaker 7: should have been some supervision. But when I'm led to 648 00:37:53,681 --> 00:37:57,201 Speaker 7: believe the person doing that had gone on annual leave 649 00:37:57,241 --> 00:38:00,161 Speaker 7: and just left and then no one had taken their place. 650 00:38:00,321 --> 00:38:02,601 Speaker 2: No one was monitoring that house, you know. So were 651 00:38:02,641 --> 00:38:04,641 Speaker 2: you aware that there was a residential care? 652 00:38:05,401 --> 00:38:07,801 Speaker 7: No knew nothing about it now, So they try to 653 00:38:07,881 --> 00:38:11,001 Speaker 7: keep it quiet because some of the people in the 654 00:38:11,161 --> 00:38:15,521 Speaker 7: houses are dealing with maybe domestic violence issues or you know, 655 00:38:15,801 --> 00:38:18,281 Speaker 7: parental issues, and they don't necessarily want the parents or 656 00:38:18,321 --> 00:38:20,721 Speaker 7: other family members known where these houses are to come 657 00:38:20,921 --> 00:38:24,361 Speaker 7: and get the kids or whatever on a few teens whatever. 658 00:38:24,921 --> 00:38:28,201 Speaker 2: These two boys are seventeen years old. Are they related 659 00:38:28,201 --> 00:38:30,761 Speaker 2: to each other? Not the mowhare of known and they're 660 00:38:30,761 --> 00:38:33,201 Speaker 2: both living in this residential carehouse. 661 00:38:33,361 --> 00:38:33,401 Speaker 4: No. 662 00:38:33,761 --> 00:38:35,521 Speaker 2: See, this is the thing. They should never have been there. 663 00:38:36,161 --> 00:38:38,841 Speaker 7: While I've been told by the polices that they were, 664 00:38:39,881 --> 00:38:41,841 Speaker 7: they were both should have just been staying with their 665 00:38:41,881 --> 00:38:45,641 Speaker 7: own families in One should have been in Zilmia, one 666 00:38:45,641 --> 00:38:47,961 Speaker 7: should have been in Holland Park. But I believe that 667 00:38:48,241 --> 00:38:52,241 Speaker 7: one of them was let out on bail boxing day 668 00:38:53,921 --> 00:39:00,361 Speaker 7: morning afternoon and instead of going home, then got transport 669 00:39:00,601 --> 00:39:04,481 Speaker 7: up to North Lakes along with the other one and 670 00:39:05,201 --> 00:39:07,721 Speaker 7: they were sported or they'd been at that house from 671 00:39:07,721 --> 00:39:11,641 Speaker 7: like four thirty pm that afternoon. The police can track 672 00:39:11,721 --> 00:39:14,521 Speaker 7: their whereabouts from four thirty pm until the event. 673 00:39:15,241 --> 00:39:17,321 Speaker 1: Yeah. 674 00:39:17,601 --> 00:39:19,401 Speaker 2: Were were they on drugs at the time? 675 00:39:19,601 --> 00:39:21,801 Speaker 7: I'm not too sure at the time, but I believe 676 00:39:22,121 --> 00:39:24,481 Speaker 7: the main go involved in our case had. 677 00:39:27,121 --> 00:39:27,321 Speaker 4: Yes. 678 00:39:27,641 --> 00:39:30,281 Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, I'd been doing drugs for at least three days. 679 00:39:30,361 --> 00:39:30,801 Speaker 4: Yeah. 680 00:39:31,001 --> 00:39:33,561 Speaker 2: So you find out this to seventeen year olds have 681 00:39:33,601 --> 00:39:36,921 Speaker 2: been arrested. What you're feeling at that stage, is there 682 00:39:36,961 --> 00:39:40,361 Speaker 2: anger and are you how are you feeling when you 683 00:39:40,441 --> 00:39:44,520 Speaker 2: hear that they've been arrested? Is it like thank God? 684 00:39:44,761 --> 00:39:46,481 Speaker 2: Or is it like I want to know who these 685 00:39:46,481 --> 00:39:47,201 Speaker 2: fuckers are. 686 00:39:51,081 --> 00:39:52,801 Speaker 7: It's gonna sound funny to say, but I don't. 687 00:39:54,001 --> 00:39:55,001 Speaker 2: I think I thought a lot. 688 00:39:55,041 --> 00:39:57,681 Speaker 7: To be honest, I think I was just so numb 689 00:39:57,681 --> 00:39:59,841 Speaker 7: back then that like I wasn't any feeling about anything, 690 00:40:00,241 --> 00:40:01,081 Speaker 7: and I just. 691 00:40:03,961 --> 00:40:05,361 Speaker 2: I don't know. I suppose I just. 692 00:40:07,041 --> 00:40:09,721 Speaker 7: Trying to absorb what was happening for you know, the 693 00:40:09,761 --> 00:40:12,281 Speaker 7: girls and I and Emma, and I didn't really think 694 00:40:12,321 --> 00:40:14,361 Speaker 7: a lot about anything else. I suppose in some ways, 695 00:40:15,401 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 7: maybe I was glad they got they were caught, I suppose. 696 00:40:17,721 --> 00:40:17,960 Speaker 4: And. 697 00:40:20,121 --> 00:40:24,641 Speaker 7: Didn't surprise me they I suppose they were you know, youths. 698 00:40:25,641 --> 00:40:31,521 Speaker 7: But I don't know, I don't I don't think I 699 00:40:31,601 --> 00:40:37,001 Speaker 7: really felt angry. I suppose I'm not genuinely like an 700 00:40:37,041 --> 00:40:40,401 Speaker 7: angry sort of person. And even now, like I I 701 00:40:40,441 --> 00:40:43,481 Speaker 7: struggled to feel anger towards them, you know, I don't know. 702 00:40:43,521 --> 00:40:46,001 Speaker 7: I understands really like bizarre at center to feel. But 703 00:40:46,441 --> 00:40:48,201 Speaker 7: most people would be like, oh, you know, like you 704 00:40:48,721 --> 00:40:50,761 Speaker 7: if you had a if they were in a room, alone. 705 00:40:50,921 --> 00:40:53,841 Speaker 7: You know, what would you do that? I suppose that's 706 00:40:53,881 --> 00:40:58,881 Speaker 7: not me and I just I don't know, like maybe 707 00:40:58,921 --> 00:41:03,721 Speaker 7: that Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I 708 00:41:03,721 --> 00:41:06,921 Speaker 7: don't It's a fount. Like I said, I didn't at 709 00:41:06,961 --> 00:41:08,761 Speaker 7: the time feel anger. I don't know. 710 00:41:08,921 --> 00:41:13,321 Speaker 2: So I wanted to find out more about how this 711 00:41:13,401 --> 00:41:16,201 Speaker 2: type of social housing works, what it's used for, and 712 00:41:16,241 --> 00:41:18,241 Speaker 2: can we or should we know if one of those 713 00:41:18,241 --> 00:41:21,681 Speaker 2: houses is down the road from our house now. A 714 00:41:21,721 --> 00:41:24,641 Speaker 2: residential care house in Australia refers to a type of 715 00:41:24,641 --> 00:41:27,721 Speaker 2: accommodation where young people, often those who are at risk 716 00:41:28,041 --> 00:41:32,041 Speaker 2: or vulnerable, are provided with care and supervision. These houses 717 00:41:32,121 --> 00:41:35,321 Speaker 2: are typically part of the child protection and welfare system 718 00:41:35,761 --> 00:41:38,801 Speaker 2: and are designed to provide a stable living environment for 719 00:41:38,921 --> 00:41:42,561 Speaker 2: children and adolescents who can't live with their families due 720 00:41:42,601 --> 00:41:48,721 Speaker 2: to various reasons like neglect, abuse, or family breakdowns. In Queensland, 721 00:41:48,801 --> 00:41:52,601 Speaker 2: regulations governing residential carehouse fall under the broader framework of 722 00:41:52,681 --> 00:41:57,121 Speaker 2: Child Protection and out of home care services. These regulations 723 00:41:57,121 --> 00:41:59,921 Speaker 2: are managed by the Department of Children, Youth, Justice and 724 00:42:00,001 --> 00:42:04,281 Speaker 2: Multicultural Affairs. There were some interesting stats that were given 725 00:42:04,281 --> 00:42:07,201 Speaker 2: as part of a you into residential care in twenty 726 00:42:07,241 --> 00:42:12,081 Speaker 2: twenty three. On the thirtieth of June twenty nineteen, there 727 00:42:12,121 --> 00:42:14,561 Speaker 2: were nine hundred and fifty one children who were being 728 00:42:14,601 --> 00:42:18,561 Speaker 2: cared for in residential care services. By June thirty of 729 00:42:18,601 --> 00:42:22,681 Speaker 2: twenty twenty three, this number had almost doubled to seventeen 730 00:42:22,761 --> 00:42:26,721 Speaker 2: hundred and sixty three people. The needs of children and 731 00:42:26,761 --> 00:42:29,761 Speaker 2: young people living in residential care are different to the 732 00:42:29,801 --> 00:42:32,921 Speaker 2: needs of children and young people living in family based care. 733 00:42:33,161 --> 00:42:36,361 Speaker 2: Children and young people in residential care are more likely 734 00:42:36,401 --> 00:42:40,961 Speaker 2: to experience significant disability or mental health concerns. They've either 735 00:42:41,121 --> 00:42:45,041 Speaker 2: experienced physical and or sexual abuse, and can be disconnected 736 00:42:45,041 --> 00:42:50,401 Speaker 2: from pro social relationships, including families and schools. It makes 737 00:42:50,441 --> 00:42:52,601 Speaker 2: sense that we need this sort of support for our 738 00:42:52,641 --> 00:42:55,881 Speaker 2: young people who can't live with their parents for whatever reason, 739 00:42:56,081 --> 00:42:59,361 Speaker 2: and it also makes sense that these locations aren't made public, 740 00:42:59,641 --> 00:43:02,281 Speaker 2: giving the nature of some of the young people that 741 00:43:02,321 --> 00:43:03,401 Speaker 2: are housed there. 742 00:43:05,321 --> 00:43:05,481 Speaker 7: Now. 743 00:43:05,521 --> 00:43:07,841 Speaker 2: On purpose, in this podcast, we've decided not to look 744 00:43:07,881 --> 00:43:11,201 Speaker 2: at the politics around the ticking time bomb that is 745 00:43:11,281 --> 00:43:14,001 Speaker 2: youth crime. However, we have linked in the show notes 746 00:43:14,041 --> 00:43:16,521 Speaker 2: the current pledge from the Queensland government on the one 747 00:43:16,521 --> 00:43:19,481 Speaker 2: point two to eight billion dollars they plan on spending 748 00:43:19,521 --> 00:43:22,761 Speaker 2: to tackle the issue. As mentioned, we have reached out 749 00:43:22,801 --> 00:43:25,801 Speaker 2: to the current Premier's office and we had no response 750 00:43:25,921 --> 00:43:29,361 Speaker 2: prior to releasing this show. In the next few episodes, 751 00:43:29,401 --> 00:43:31,201 Speaker 2: we're going to move between the story of what happened 752 00:43:31,241 --> 00:43:34,441 Speaker 2: to Lee and his family and Aaron and Christine's story 753 00:43:34,921 --> 00:43:37,121 Speaker 2: about how you pick up the pieces when something like 754 00:43:37,161 --> 00:43:39,921 Speaker 2: this tragedy happens, but also we're going to try to 755 00:43:40,001 --> 00:43:42,721 Speaker 2: understand what some of the answers might be. We're going 756 00:43:42,761 --> 00:43:44,961 Speaker 2: to hear from police who are on the front line. 757 00:43:45,041 --> 00:43:47,241 Speaker 2: They're going to do this anonymously as they didn't want 758 00:43:47,241 --> 00:43:49,721 Speaker 2: to go on record. We actually did ask police for 759 00:43:49,761 --> 00:43:53,281 Speaker 2: an official statement, however, they've decided not to come on 760 00:43:53,321 --> 00:43:56,041 Speaker 2: the podcast. We're going to hear from people behind the scenes, 761 00:43:56,161 --> 00:43:58,521 Speaker 2: working with both youth in this state and in other 762 00:43:58,601 --> 00:44:01,521 Speaker 2: states who have used what's happening in Queensland as a 763 00:44:01,601 --> 00:44:04,401 Speaker 2: bad poster boys story to not let it happen in 764 00:44:04,521 --> 00:44:08,481 Speaker 2: their date in Australia. I'd like to finish this episode 765 00:44:08,561 --> 00:44:11,761 Speaker 2: with Aaron and Christine who are on the way to recovery. 766 00:44:11,921 --> 00:44:15,721 Speaker 2: They moved house, they installed security and Aaron had a plan. 767 00:44:16,201 --> 00:44:20,521 Speaker 2: It included a baseball bat under the bed. Lots of 768 00:44:20,521 --> 00:44:23,921 Speaker 2: people told Aaron that he wouldn't need that baseball bat. 769 00:44:24,081 --> 00:44:28,241 Speaker 2: It would be unlikely that this would ever happen again, until, 770 00:44:28,241 --> 00:44:29,881 Speaker 2: of course it did. 771 00:44:30,321 --> 00:44:33,521 Speaker 1: We heard the noises coming from the garage, and I 772 00:44:33,561 --> 00:44:35,841 Speaker 1: had this wonderful, great plan that I'd worked up with 773 00:44:35,881 --> 00:44:38,881 Speaker 1: my psychologist stuff the incident, that if it ever happens again, 774 00:44:39,521 --> 00:44:41,681 Speaker 1: I'm going to grab the baseball bat. I'm going to 775 00:44:42,041 --> 00:44:43,761 Speaker 1: check the lock on the door as working, and I'm 776 00:44:43,801 --> 00:44:46,201 Speaker 1: going to phone Triple zero and I'm going to tell 777 00:44:46,241 --> 00:44:49,041 Speaker 1: the people who pick up the call that I've been 778 00:44:49,081 --> 00:44:51,921 Speaker 1: involved in a violent home invasion previously, and I don't 779 00:44:51,921 --> 00:44:54,801 Speaker 1: need the police to come straight away. I don't know 780 00:44:54,841 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: what happened in my mind at that point in time, 781 00:44:56,441 --> 00:44:58,041 Speaker 1: but I did exactly the same thing as what I 782 00:44:58,081 --> 00:45:00,361 Speaker 1: did in the first incident. And I've got up and 783 00:45:00,401 --> 00:45:02,881 Speaker 1: I've raced out, opened the door and raced down the stairs. 784 00:45:02,961 --> 00:45:07,281 Speaker 1: And then there's the police. They said that they've had 785 00:45:07,481 --> 00:45:10,401 Speaker 1: people in your home. They've been doing a bit of 786 00:45:10,401 --> 00:45:13,961 Speaker 1: a spray around the neighborhood. I asked them how they 787 00:45:14,001 --> 00:45:15,761 Speaker 1: got in. They see the garage door was up, and 788 00:45:15,801 --> 00:45:18,161 Speaker 1: then we started to look around the house and all 789 00:45:18,241 --> 00:45:23,161 Speaker 1: kitchen drawers are open and inside bedroom door. 790 00:45:23,441 --> 00:45:29,761 Speaker 4: Yeah there was blood up the staircase, so yeah, up 791 00:45:29,801 --> 00:45:31,161 Speaker 4: the staircase to our bedroom. 792 00:45:31,401 --> 00:45:34,361 Speaker 3: So who knows whether they had tried the lock and 793 00:45:34,361 --> 00:45:35,241 Speaker 3: couldn't get in. 794 00:45:37,201 --> 00:45:38,801 Speaker 4: Seems potentially likely. 795 00:45:40,201 --> 00:45:44,841 Speaker 3: I mean that was you know, retriggering the trauma again. 796 00:45:45,081 --> 00:45:48,121 Speaker 3: But you know, the lockworks. 797 00:45:48,321 --> 00:45:49,121 Speaker 1: The lockworks. 798 00:46:27,441 --> 00:46:30,281 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story. 799 00:46:30,921 --> 00:46:34,081 Speaker 2: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what podshape really 800 00:46:34,081 --> 00:46:37,041 Speaker 2: cares about. Right now, There's thousands of people listening to 801 00:46:37,081 --> 00:46:40,681 Speaker 2: this show and our other true crimes, and they're completely engaged. 802 00:46:40,921 --> 00:46:43,721 Speaker 2: More than ten million Australians listen to podcasts each week. 803 00:46:44,361 --> 00:46:47,201 Speaker 2: If you've ever thought about advertising your business in a podcast, 804 00:46:47,521 --> 00:46:49,521 Speaker 2: there's a link to reach out in the show notes, 805 00:46:49,881 --> 00:46:52,520 Speaker 2: or head to podshape dot com to book a free call.