Speaker 1: This is Life in Crimes. I'm Laura Placella, standing in
Speaker 1: for Andrew Ruhl, who's on assignment. Last week I was
Speaker 1: joined by my colleague at The Herald's son, Myles Proust,
Speaker 1: to discuss one of the most compelling trials that we've
Speaker 1: seen in recent years. But if you missed our first
Speaker 1: bonus episode, the case centers on the deaths of Russell
Speaker 1: Hill and Carol Clay, two people who were camping in
Speaker 1: a remote area called the Wanagata Valley in Victoria's North.
Speaker 1: The man who stands accused of their murder is former
Speaker 1: Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn. He is standing trial in the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court and Miles has been in court every single
Speaker 1: day to listen to the evidence put to the jury.
Speaker 1: This episode will dive into the details of everything that
Speaker 1: has happened over the last seven days. It's so great
Speaker 1: to have you back, Myles, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Thanks Laura, good to be here.
Speaker 1: Well, it's been a really interesting seven days in this trial,
Speaker 1: and we will talk about what happened last week a
Speaker 1: little bit later, but there were some pretty big revelations
Speaker 1: that came out in court this week.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us what happened so that's right.
Speaker 3: There were some big revelations in court this week, more
Speaker 3: so to do with the affair between Russell Hill and
Speaker 3: Carol Clay. So just to give a recap on that,
Speaker 3: Russell Hill and Carol Clay were two childhood sweethearts who
Speaker 3: rekindled their relationship in about two thousand and six. They
Speaker 3: would spend time together on these camping trips essentially to
Speaker 3: spend time together. Yesterday we had Robin Hill, who is
Speaker 3: the widow of Russell Hill, called to give evidence. She's
Speaker 3: an older woman, she's quite frail. She was ceded to
Speaker 3: give her evidence and she actually revealed that she was
Speaker 3: aware of this affair from the very beginning. So she
Speaker 3: said in the mid two thousands, around two thousand and
Speaker 3: five or two thousand and six, a neighbor had actually
Speaker 3: given mister Hill an ultimatum telling him to come clean
Speaker 3: with his wife about the affair, otherwise the neighbor was
Speaker 3: going to tell her themselves. And so Russell did that
Speaker 3: he can claim to his wife he told her about
Speaker 3: the affair and he said it was over. And Robin
Speaker 3: said she thought that was the end of it, but
Speaker 3: in reality this affair kept going.
Speaker 1: So how much did Missus Hill know about missus Clay.
Speaker 3: So Robin revealed she had known missus Clay for decades
Speaker 3: as well. Missus Clay used to be married to her
Speaker 3: now former husband, and Robin said, these two couples, so
Speaker 3: this is Robin Russell, Missus Clay and her husband, would
Speaker 3: holiday together down.
Speaker 2: At Phillip Islands.
Speaker 1: Oh so all four of them.
Speaker 3: All four of them there, that's right. So they would
Speaker 3: go on these holiday trips together. And she said she
Speaker 3: thought it was strange because she used to see Russell
Speaker 3: and Carol go on these walks together and it just
Speaker 3: stuck out in her mind as being a bit weird.
Speaker 2: One other major revelation.
Speaker 3: Is that mister Hill lied to Robin and said that
Speaker 3: missus Clay was his first cousin.
Speaker 1: So this whole time, while they've been going on these trips,
Speaker 1: Missus Hill is under the impression that missus Clay is
Speaker 1: just mister Hill's cousin.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she obviously found out that wasn't true when
Speaker 3: the affair was exposed.
Speaker 1: Was there anything else surprising about missus Hill's evidence?
Speaker 3: There was another thing that Robin said she spoke about
Speaker 3: her husband's battles with depression over the years, and the
Speaker 3: fact that he was on medication at different points.
Speaker 1: Did you mention anything else about his health.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she did touch upon his health. She spoke about
Speaker 3: him being an outdoors man, a very physical man. He's
Speaker 3: quite tall, mister Hill, He's about six foot two. She
Speaker 3: said he stayed the same way.
Speaker 2: As he got older.
Speaker 3: He used to operate chainsaws and some of these camping trips.
Speaker 3: He would still go out on these camping trips, but
Speaker 3: she did say he started to slow up in his
Speaker 3: later years, both the way his mind operated and also physically.
Speaker 1: So you've taught us a lot about missus Hill's evidence.
Speaker 1: Have we heard from many other interesting witnesses this week.
Speaker 3: On Monday, we heard from some other campers in the
Speaker 3: area who came across the campsite in the days after
Speaker 3: the couple disappeared. One camper, a guy called Nicholas Lindon,
Speaker 3: He was camping in the valley with his eleven year
Speaker 3: old son when he came across this destroyed campsite and
Speaker 3: mister Hill's abandoned toyot lancus Or in March twenty five,
Speaker 3: so about five days after they were allegedly murdered. He
Speaker 3: describes how it was an alarming scene, especially for his
Speaker 3: young son to come across, and it was something a
Speaker 3: bit different, and they did camp the night nearby, but
Speaker 3: the next day they decided to get going and when
Speaker 3: he returned home he reported it to police. We also
Speaker 3: heard from some local police who were basically the first
Speaker 3: ones to go up into the valley investigate these missing people.
Speaker 3: We had a guy called Leading Senior Constable Christopher Skiber
Speaker 3: and his partner from Mafra Police. They conducted two searches
Speaker 3: of the valley in the days after the pair were
Speaker 3: reported missing. They came across the campsite on March twenty
Speaker 3: eight after they were provided the coordinates from some other campers.
Speaker 3: They took some photos of the scene they had to
Speaker 3: look through. They looked through the windows. They could see
Speaker 3: there were some wallets sitting in the foot wells of
Speaker 3: mister Hill's land cruiser. They actually got some information from
Speaker 3: higher ups how to unlock the car. There was a
Speaker 3: spare key in between the cabin and the canopy of
Speaker 3: the car and they were actually get in, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 3: and they were able to actually get in that way
Speaker 3: and they found there were wallets in the foot wells
Speaker 3: of the car and they could see there were bank
Speaker 3: cards missing and also cards around like sitting around scattered
Speaker 3: around them.
Speaker 2: They turned the car on and.
Speaker 3: There was nothing wrong with it, and then Constable Skiber
Speaker 3: ended up helping a tow truck move it out of
Speaker 3: the valley. Another camp of Tom Matthews, who was camping
Speaker 3: in the valley with his family around the time the
Speaker 3: couple were allegedly murdered, also gave.
Speaker 2: Evidence on Monday.
Speaker 3: He spoke about this instance where it was about midnight.
Speaker 3: He thinks he wasn't sure of the exact time on
Speaker 3: March twenty, so this is a few hours after the
Speaker 3: alleged murders took place. He was camping sort of an
Speaker 3: inn area next to a river, and the river there
Speaker 3: was a track next to it that led out of
Speaker 3: the valley, and that part of the track was actually
Speaker 3: shut It had a road closed sign on it. He
Speaker 3: reckons about midnight he hears a big four drive drive
Speaker 3: past their camp site. He's woken by it's towing a
Speaker 3: trailer and then he hears it get to the road
Speaker 3: closure and then do a reverse back up and do
Speaker 3: a U turn and drive away. And he just said
Speaker 3: it was a bit strange to hear this forward drive
Speaker 3: doing this maneuver in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: Did his description of the car match that of mister
Speaker 1: Lynn's it did.
Speaker 3: He didn't get out of his tent to investigate. But
Speaker 3: we know mister Linn was driving a forward drive and
Speaker 3: he was towing a trailer. He mister Matthews said it
Speaker 3: sounded like a forward drive, it was towing a trailer,
Speaker 3: sounded like it was petrol, and it was an automatic transmission.
Speaker 1: So you've been in court for a few days. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us a bit more about what it's like
Speaker 1: there in the courtroom.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think everyone's settled into their roles now. Now
Speaker 3: that were a few days into evidence. The running of
Speaker 3: the trial seems to be quite smooth. We're getting through
Speaker 3: witnesses quite quickly. There hasn't been any sort of technical
Speaker 3: issues that have held things up too much, so I
Speaker 3: think everyone's feeling pretty comfortable with where things are. Just
Speaker 3: a little bit about mister Line himself. He's seated in
Speaker 3: the dock towards the back of the courtroom. He's still
Speaker 3: wearing the same clothes each day, which is sort of
Speaker 3: a black suit, a blue shirt and silver tying glasses.
Speaker 3: He's been taking notes during pretty much throughout the whole trial.
Speaker 3: His wife and a couple of his children have been caught,
Speaker 3: not necessarily in every day, but a couple of days
Speaker 3: they've been in in the public gallery. He doesn't give
Speaker 3: much away, but he is carefully taking notes, and he's
Speaker 3: obviously part of proceedings. You can see when any witnesses up,
Speaker 3: he's definitely listening, intently, taking in their evidence and considering
Speaker 3: what they're saying.
Speaker 1: So has the public gallery been full? I remember you
Speaker 1: saying that on the first day it was pretty packed
Speaker 1: and people had.
Speaker 3: To stand Yeah, it has been. It has been for
Speaker 3: pretty much every day. A few people have been forced
Speaker 3: to stand up there, but it does empty out throughout
Speaker 3: the day. Not necessarily everyone has a connection to the case.
Speaker 3: While I'm sure there is plenty of family or people
Speaker 3: who have some sort of connection to the people involved
Speaker 3: in this case, I think a lot of people are
Speaker 3: just people who are interested in what this is about
Speaker 3: and coming to check it out for themselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, not a lot of people know that you can
Speaker 1: just walk into a courtroom, sit down and take it
Speaker 1: all in.
Speaker 2: That's right, open justice.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about last week who was on the stand.
Speaker 1: Did we have any interesting witnesses.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just run you through them one by one
Speaker 3: quickly if you like. So we had fifteen witnesses last week.
Speaker 3: On Tuesday, which is when we had the openings in
Speaker 3: the afternoon, I think we spoke last time. I said
Speaker 3: there was a parks ranger and a hunter who met
Speaker 3: mister Hill sort of a week before he was allegedly murdered.
Speaker 3: The next day we had six witnesses. We had two
Speaker 3: other hunters who were on that same trip as the
Speaker 3: bloke from the day before, who spoke similar sort of
Speaker 3: evidence about their interactions with mister Hill. We had another
Speaker 3: camper who met mister Hill and Missus Clay on a
Speaker 3: trip in February twenty twenty. We had a friend of
Speaker 3: mister Hill called Michael Allen, who was an amateur radio enthusiast.
Speaker 3: We had and this is the first time we had
Speaker 3: one of the family members. We had a woman called
Speaker 3: Emma Davies. She is the daughter of Carol Clay and
Speaker 3: she was the first family member of one that deceased
Speaker 3: to give evidence. And then we had another guy called
Speaker 3: Wayne Foon who was a park ranger who had an
Speaker 3: interaction with mister Lynn. On Thursday, we had four witnesses,
Speaker 3: Weed Spray's Robert Williams and Walter Gibbs, and these were
Speaker 3: guys who were in the Wanaganda Valley around the time
Speaker 3: the couple vanished. And then we also had two hunters
Speaker 3: from New South Wales who gave their evidence via video link.
Speaker 3: They both required a Serbian translator, and again they had
Speaker 3: a couple of interactions with the deceased. On Friday, we
Speaker 3: had three of mister Hill's friends from his amateur radio group,
Speaker 3: and yeah, they gave evidence about sort of the type
Speaker 3: of person he was.
Speaker 1: So let's break down that list a little bit. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us a bit more about Emma's evidence?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, so.
Speaker 3: As I said, she is the daughter of Carol Clay.
Speaker 3: She was the first family member of one of the
Speaker 3: deceased to give evidence. She looked like she was about
Speaker 3: in her late thirties or early forties, and she was
Speaker 3: brought to the witness box. And anyone who's ever been
Speaker 3: inside a courtroom can understand how intimidating it can be,
Speaker 3: let alone giving evidence into the alleged murder of your mother.
Speaker 3: She spoke very well, She was very well composed, and
Speaker 3: she really spoke a little bit about what happened after
Speaker 3: her mother disappeared. So she was contacted by police on
Speaker 3: March twenty nine, So in the days after her mother
Speaker 3: disappeared by investigators from Sale Police, and they firstly asked
Speaker 3: if she had spoken to her mother. She said she hadn't,
Speaker 3: and if they could release a media statement or a
Speaker 3: media release basically about her mother's disappearance, and she revealed
Speaker 3: she was aware of her mother's relationship with mister Hill
Speaker 3: and one of the things that concerned her was that
Speaker 3: this media release was going to alert others to the
Speaker 3: fact that mister Hill and missus Clay had been camping together. Oh,
Speaker 3: I see, But ultimately she said, you know, her mother
Speaker 3: was missing, So she did sign off from that, but
Speaker 3: it was a concern that was in her mind.
Speaker 1: So did I hear that there was a witness called
Speaker 1: Robbie Williams. What did he have to say?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Robert Williams or Robbie Williams as he
Speaker 3: was better known, just as Croucher, actually did a joke
Speaker 3: about that he was a weed sprayer contracted by Parks
Speaker 3: Victoria to do weed spraying in the Wantagata Valley around
Speaker 3: the time of the couple's disappearance, and he actually had
Speaker 3: interactions with both who we believe was miss de Lynne,
Speaker 3: and interactions with people we believe were missus Clay and
Speaker 3: mister Hill. So he spoke about on March twenty, twenty twenty,
Speaker 3: this is the day the alleged murders took place, he
Speaker 3: saw a white Toyota land Cruiser. He described it as
Speaker 3: being pretty snazzied up and he wouldn't have minded having
Speaker 3: it for himself, driven by an older man, and there
Speaker 3: was a woman sort of seated next to him and
Speaker 3: as a weed sprayer, and one of these contractors. He said,
Speaker 3: most people would actually stop and talk to them while
Speaker 3: they're working in the valley, but he thought it was
Speaker 3: a little bit surprising to see this car drives through
Speaker 3: and when they saw him, he says, he accelerated.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yes, He described it as being very unusual seeing this
Speaker 3: older man just whiz by him. And then he spoke
Speaker 3: about how after they finished their day's work, him and
Speaker 3: his colleagues, they returned to the camp site and he
Speaker 3: noticed a drone flying above, and this drone's actually circled
Speaker 3: above their camp site. And he's waved to it, and
Speaker 3: then the drone has tilted its wings to acknowledge his wave,
Speaker 3: and then it's flown sort of further on down the campsite.
Speaker 3: He didn't know who it was owned by, but as
Speaker 3: we all know, the prosecution case is mister Hill was
Speaker 3: murdered by mister Lynn after an argument over their drone.
Speaker 3: Under cross examination, mister Williams said he found the drone
Speaker 3: a bit rude.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting comment, absolutely, and didn't you say that mister
Speaker 1: Williams also had an interaction with mister Lynn.
Speaker 3: We believe he was speaking about mister Lynn. When these
Speaker 3: people giving this evidence, they're not referring to them by
Speaker 3: their names or pointing to the man in the dock.
Speaker 3: They're saying, you had an interaction with a man driving
Speaker 3: so and so vehicles. So we can't exactly say it
Speaker 3: was him, but it sounds like it was him. So
Speaker 3: in March eighteen, he mister Williams describes how he was
Speaker 3: working to his wheat spraying when a man driving in
Speaker 3: a Navy NISS patrol which is the same vehicle mister
Speaker 3: Lynn owned, approached.
Speaker 2: Their camp site. He got out.
Speaker 3: He was wearing a singlet or a t shirt shorts.
Speaker 3: He was quite sweaty. He was wearing gaiters, which are
Speaker 3: these sort of protective clothing that you wear over your
Speaker 3: ankles to stop grass seed and from snakes and.
Speaker 2: That sort of thing.
Speaker 3: And he said he approached asking where the best camp
Speaker 3: site was in the area, and mister Williams said, he
Speaker 3: thought the man this is right at the started COVID,
Speaker 3: appeared sick and he asked him to stand back. The
Speaker 3: man said he wasn't sick, he'd just been hunting. Mister
Speaker 3: Williams described it as quite a friendly conversation. He recommends
Speaker 3: camp at Bucks Camp, which was a few hundred meters away,
Speaker 3: and that's of course the site where these alleged murders
Speaker 3: took place.
Speaker 1: A very fateful discussion exactly.
Speaker 2: And so this man then has driven off. He's seen him.
Speaker 3: He's working a few hundred meters away, so he can't
Speaker 3: see clearly, but he sees them pull into the site
Speaker 3: and he can actually see his bullbar through the scrub,
Speaker 3: and that indicated he was camping towards the back of
Speaker 3: the site. So that was interesting. A person that's had
Speaker 3: these interactions with both parties, we think, so did.
Speaker 1: You mention that some of Russell Hill's mates also gave
Speaker 1: evidence on Friday. What did they have to say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3: So a few of mister Hill's friends who were part
Speaker 3: of this amateur radio group gave evidence on Friday. Just
Speaker 3: give me a bit of information about what they did,
Speaker 3: and also about the relationship mister Hill had with Missus Clay.
Speaker 3: So just for context, these are a group of friends
Speaker 3: who are amateur radio enthusiasts.
Speaker 2: They hold something called.
Speaker 3: An amateur radio license which enables them to communicate with
Speaker 3: each other on these shared frequencies and they all have
Speaker 3: these amateur radio setups. Now, this group of friends would
Speaker 3: check in with one another most nights of the week
Speaker 3: around about six pm and they would just do general
Speaker 3: chit chat and they were I think a lot of
Speaker 3: them met through radio, but a lot hadn't actually met
Speaker 3: in person until some years later. We had one guy
Speaker 3: called Robin Ashland. So he's a man from Gippsland. He
Speaker 3: was friends with mister Hill. He's been a longtime friend
Speaker 3: of him. He was a pretty knock about, sort of
Speaker 3: funny bloke, pretty sort of country I would say, And
Speaker 3: he spoke about after mister Hill's disappearance how he spoke
Speaker 3: with mister Hill's wife, Robin, So mister Ashland spoke a
Speaker 3: little bit about his knowledge of missus Clay and mister
Speaker 3: Hill's affair. He spoke about how he actually had suspicions himself.
Speaker 3: He had been out to visit some friends for lunch.
Speaker 3: Mister Hill and missus Clay were there, and mister Hill
Speaker 3: introduced missus Clay as his friend. But mister Ashland said
Speaker 3: even blind Freddie could see how they looked each other.
Speaker 3: There was a bit more going on, so he had
Speaker 3: his suspicions.
Speaker 1: So what did mister Ashland reveal about the affair and
Speaker 1: what he knew?
Speaker 3: So, as I said, mister Ashland had some suspicions after
Speaker 3: meeting missus Clay at lunch, but those suspicions were really
Speaker 3: confirmed when he spoke to mister Hill's wife, Robin in
Speaker 3: the days after the couple disappeared. She asked him if
Speaker 3: Carol Clay, missus Clay, was on the trip. She said
Speaker 3: there had been some involvement. She'd been on the scene
Speaker 3: for about twenty years or so. So according to mister
Speaker 3: Ashland his account, his version of events, he said, in
Speaker 3: this conversation he had with Missus Hill. She said her
Speaker 3: husband and Missus Clay had planned to leave the respective
Speaker 3: partners so that they could be together, but he broke
Speaker 3: his promise after Missus Clay had already divorced her husband,
Speaker 3: so he stayed together with Missus Hill. Robin, this is
Speaker 3: the account mister Ashland has given, so that just has
Speaker 3: to be weighed up with the other other evidence.
Speaker 1: So let me get this straight. At some point in time,
Speaker 1: Missus Clay has left her husband to hopefully be with
Speaker 1: mister Hill. But even though they've had this agreement to
Speaker 1: leave their partners respectively, mister Hill hasn't held up his
Speaker 1: end of the bargain and he's decided to stay with
Speaker 1: his wife even though he has told her about that pact,
Speaker 1: at least according to mister Ashland, so it seems like
Speaker 1: at this point in time, he's only one having an affair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the evidence mister Ashlin gave to the court
Speaker 3: on Friday.
Speaker 1: Now, there has been a lot of drama in court
Speaker 1: over the last seven days, but it wasn't all serious,
Speaker 1: was it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Look, anyone who's ever been in court understands they are
Speaker 3: pretty serious places. But there are also workplaces, and that
Speaker 3: there's shades of humor and lightness in any place, including
Speaker 3: court rooms. Probably one of the funniest parts from the
Speaker 3: trials so far is when mister Ashland described a little
Speaker 3: bit about the last conversation he had with mister Hill,
Speaker 3: which is on the radio about six pm on the
Speaker 3: night he was allegedly murdered, and he said he sounded
Speaker 3: like he was as happy as a piginhit. And he
Speaker 3: said that once, and then during cross examination he said
Speaker 3: it again, and then the defense said, oh, I wasn't
Speaker 3: expecting you to say that again, and then he said,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, mate, but I say it how it is.
Speaker 2: So both those moments were pretty funny.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad we could end on a light note.
Speaker 1: Thank you again for your time. Miles. Andrew will be
Speaker 1: back this Saturday for his regular show, and we'll be
Speaker 1: back next week for yet another bonus episode outlining all
Speaker 1: the latest in the trial. But Miles will be in
Speaker 1: court every day. He's not going anywhere, so please be
Speaker 1: sure to check the heralds on website and the paper
Speaker 1: for his daily updates. Thanks again, Miles, Thanks.
Speaker 2: Laura, thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun Production for
Speaker 1: True Crime Australia.
Speaker 2: Our producer is Johnty Burton.
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