1
00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,920
Speaker 1: This is Life in Crimes. I'm Laura Placella, standing in

2
00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,119
Speaker 1: for Andrew Ruhl, who's on assignment. Last week I was

3
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:10,800
Speaker 1: joined by my colleague at The Herald's son, Myles Proust,

4
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,960
Speaker 1: to discuss one of the most compelling trials that we've

5
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,360
Speaker 1: seen in recent years. But if you missed our first

6
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,720
Speaker 1: bonus episode, the case centers on the deaths of Russell

7
00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,119
Speaker 1: Hill and Carol Clay, two people who were camping in

8
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,440
Speaker 1: a remote area called the Wanagata Valley in Victoria's North.

9
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,000
Speaker 1: The man who stands accused of their murder is former

10
00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,559
Speaker 1: Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn. He is standing trial in the

11
00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,360
Speaker 1: Supreme Court and Miles has been in court every single

12
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:37,960
Speaker 1: day to listen to the evidence put to the jury.

13
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,720
Speaker 1: This episode will dive into the details of everything that

14
00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 1: has happened over the last seven days. It's so great

15
00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,160
Speaker 1: to have you back, Myles, thanks for being here.

16
00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 2: Thanks Laura, good to be here.

17
00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's been a really interesting seven days in this trial,

18
00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,360
Speaker 1: and we will talk about what happened last week a

19
00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 1: little bit later, but there were some pretty big revelations

20
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,160
Speaker 1: that came out in court this week.

21
00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,160
Speaker 2: Can you tell us what happened so that's right.

22
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,400
Speaker 3: There were some big revelations in court this week, more

23
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,920
Speaker 3: so to do with the affair between Russell Hill and

24
00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:08,399
Speaker 3: Carol Clay. So just to give a recap on that,

25
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 3: Russell Hill and Carol Clay were two childhood sweethearts who

26
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:16,240
Speaker 3: rekindled their relationship in about two thousand and six. They

27
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 3: would spend time together on these camping trips essentially to

28
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:23,640
Speaker 3: spend time together. Yesterday we had Robin Hill, who is

29
00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,000
Speaker 3: the widow of Russell Hill, called to give evidence. She's

30
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,760
Speaker 3: an older woman, she's quite frail. She was ceded to

31
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,280
Speaker 3: give her evidence and she actually revealed that she was

32
00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,560
Speaker 3: aware of this affair from the very beginning. So she

33
00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:38,880
Speaker 3: said in the mid two thousands, around two thousand and

34
00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:42,039
Speaker 3: five or two thousand and six, a neighbor had actually

35
00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,760
Speaker 3: given mister Hill an ultimatum telling him to come clean

36
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 3: with his wife about the affair, otherwise the neighbor was

37
00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:52,280
Speaker 3: going to tell her themselves. And so Russell did that

38
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,080
Speaker 3: he can claim to his wife he told her about

39
00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:58,360
Speaker 3: the affair and he said it was over. And Robin

40
00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 3: said she thought that was the end of it, but

41
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:03,520
Speaker 3: in reality this affair kept going.

42
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 1: So how much did Missus Hill know about missus Clay.

43
00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,680
Speaker 3: So Robin revealed she had known missus Clay for decades

44
00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 3: as well. Missus Clay used to be married to her

45
00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:19,320
Speaker 3: now former husband, and Robin said, these two couples, so

46
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:23,440
Speaker 3: this is Robin Russell, Missus Clay and her husband, would

47
00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:24,560
Speaker 3: holiday together down.

48
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:25,280
Speaker 2: At Phillip Islands.

49
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 1: Oh so all four of them.

50
00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,640
Speaker 3: All four of them there, that's right. So they would

51
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,040
Speaker 3: go on these holiday trips together. And she said she

52
00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 3: thought it was strange because she used to see Russell

53
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,160
Speaker 3: and Carol go on these walks together and it just

54
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 3: stuck out in her mind as being a bit weird.

55
00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 2: One other major revelation.

56
00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:45,560
Speaker 3: Is that mister Hill lied to Robin and said that

57
00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,680
Speaker 3: missus Clay was his first cousin.

58
00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,520
Speaker 1: So this whole time, while they've been going on these trips,

59
00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 1: Missus Hill is under the impression that missus Clay is

60
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:54,320
Speaker 1: just mister Hill's cousin.

61
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:55,200
Speaker 2: That's right.

62
00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she obviously found out that wasn't true when

63
00:02:58,400 --> 00:02:59,720
Speaker 3: the affair was exposed.

64
00:02:59,880 --> 00:03:02,280
Speaker 1: Was there anything else surprising about missus Hill's evidence?

65
00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,160
Speaker 3: There was another thing that Robin said she spoke about

66
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,080
Speaker 3: her husband's battles with depression over the years, and the

67
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,560
Speaker 3: fact that he was on medication at different points.

68
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:12,480
Speaker 1: Did you mention anything else about his health.

69
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, she did touch upon his health. She spoke about

70
00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,280
Speaker 3: him being an outdoors man, a very physical man. He's

71
00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,560
Speaker 3: quite tall, mister Hill, He's about six foot two. She

72
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,120
Speaker 3: said he stayed the same way.

73
00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 2: As he got older.

74
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 3: He used to operate chainsaws and some of these camping trips.

75
00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:30,720
Speaker 3: He would still go out on these camping trips, but

76
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,320
Speaker 3: she did say he started to slow up in his

77
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,520
Speaker 3: later years, both the way his mind operated and also physically.

78
00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:40,360
Speaker 1: So you've taught us a lot about missus Hill's evidence.

79
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: Have we heard from many other interesting witnesses this week.

80
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:45,360
Speaker 3: On Monday, we heard from some other campers in the

81
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 3: area who came across the campsite in the days after

82
00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,360
Speaker 3: the couple disappeared. One camper, a guy called Nicholas Lindon,

83
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,800
Speaker 3: He was camping in the valley with his eleven year

84
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 3: old son when he came across this destroyed campsite and

85
00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,200
Speaker 3: mister Hill's abandoned toyot lancus Or in March twenty five,

86
00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,960
Speaker 3: so about five days after they were allegedly murdered. He

87
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 3: describes how it was an alarming scene, especially for his

88
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:09,480
Speaker 3: young son to come across, and it was something a

89
00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,600
Speaker 3: bit different, and they did camp the night nearby, but

90
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 3: the next day they decided to get going and when

91
00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,800
Speaker 3: he returned home he reported it to police. We also

92
00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 3: heard from some local police who were basically the first

93
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,720
Speaker 3: ones to go up into the valley investigate these missing people.

94
00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,479
Speaker 3: We had a guy called Leading Senior Constable Christopher Skiber

95
00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 3: and his partner from Mafra Police. They conducted two searches

96
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,920
Speaker 3: of the valley in the days after the pair were

97
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 3: reported missing. They came across the campsite on March twenty

98
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,520
Speaker 3: eight after they were provided the coordinates from some other campers.

99
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,839
Speaker 3: They took some photos of the scene they had to

100
00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,360
Speaker 3: look through. They looked through the windows. They could see

101
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 3: there were some wallets sitting in the foot wells of

102
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 3: mister Hill's land cruiser. They actually got some information from

103
00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 3: higher ups how to unlock the car. There was a

104
00:04:57,000 --> 00:04:59,800
Speaker 3: spare key in between the cabin and the canopy of

105
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 3: the car and they were actually get in, yeah, exactly,

106
00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:03,920
Speaker 3: and they were able to actually get in that way

107
00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,240
Speaker 3: and they found there were wallets in the foot wells

108
00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,200
Speaker 3: of the car and they could see there were bank

109
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,479
Speaker 3: cards missing and also cards around like sitting around scattered

110
00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:15,560
Speaker 3: around them.

111
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:17,600
Speaker 2: They turned the car on and.

112
00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,120
Speaker 3: There was nothing wrong with it, and then Constable Skiber

113
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:23,880
Speaker 3: ended up helping a tow truck move it out of

114
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,080
Speaker 3: the valley. Another camp of Tom Matthews, who was camping

115
00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,560
Speaker 3: in the valley with his family around the time the

116
00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 3: couple were allegedly murdered, also gave.

117
00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:32,599
Speaker 2: Evidence on Monday.

118
00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,520
Speaker 3: He spoke about this instance where it was about midnight.

119
00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,400
Speaker 3: He thinks he wasn't sure of the exact time on

120
00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,719
Speaker 3: March twenty, so this is a few hours after the

121
00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,279
Speaker 3: alleged murders took place. He was camping sort of an

122
00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,800
Speaker 3: inn area next to a river, and the river there

123
00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 3: was a track next to it that led out of

124
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 3: the valley, and that part of the track was actually

125
00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,680
Speaker 3: shut It had a road closed sign on it. He

126
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,040
Speaker 3: reckons about midnight he hears a big four drive drive

127
00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,120
Speaker 3: past their camp site. He's woken by it's towing a

128
00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 3: trailer and then he hears it get to the road

129
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,479
Speaker 3: closure and then do a reverse back up and do

130
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,719
Speaker 3: a U turn and drive away. And he just said

131
00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,719
Speaker 3: it was a bit strange to hear this forward drive

132
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,400
Speaker 3: doing this maneuver in the middle of the night.

133
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 1: Did his description of the car match that of mister

134
00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:18,680
Speaker 1: Lynn's it did.

135
00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 3: He didn't get out of his tent to investigate. But

136
00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:23,920
Speaker 3: we know mister Linn was driving a forward drive and

137
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,680
Speaker 3: he was towing a trailer. He mister Matthews said it

138
00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,680
Speaker 3: sounded like a forward drive, it was towing a trailer,

139
00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 3: sounded like it was petrol, and it was an automatic transmission.

140
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: So you've been in court for a few days. Can

141
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:38,159
Speaker 1: you tell us a bit more about what it's like

142
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:38,960
Speaker 1: there in the courtroom.

143
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think everyone's settled into their roles now. Now

144
00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 3: that were a few days into evidence. The running of

145
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,760
Speaker 3: the trial seems to be quite smooth. We're getting through

146
00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,800
Speaker 3: witnesses quite quickly. There hasn't been any sort of technical

147
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,160
Speaker 3: issues that have held things up too much, so I

148
00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:58,680
Speaker 3: think everyone's feeling pretty comfortable with where things are. Just

149
00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,000
Speaker 3: a little bit about mister Line himself. He's seated in

150
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,640
Speaker 3: the dock towards the back of the courtroom. He's still

151
00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 3: wearing the same clothes each day, which is sort of

152
00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 3: a black suit, a blue shirt and silver tying glasses.

153
00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 3: He's been taking notes during pretty much throughout the whole trial.

154
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,480
Speaker 3: His wife and a couple of his children have been caught,

155
00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,040
Speaker 3: not necessarily in every day, but a couple of days

156
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,480
Speaker 3: they've been in in the public gallery. He doesn't give

157
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,160
Speaker 3: much away, but he is carefully taking notes, and he's

158
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,600
Speaker 3: obviously part of proceedings. You can see when any witnesses up,

159
00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 3: he's definitely listening, intently, taking in their evidence and considering

160
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:33,680
Speaker 3: what they're saying.

161
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,400
Speaker 1: So has the public gallery been full? I remember you

162
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,160
Speaker 1: saying that on the first day it was pretty packed

163
00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:38,840
Speaker 1: and people had.

164
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,240
Speaker 3: To stand Yeah, it has been. It has been for

165
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,160
Speaker 3: pretty much every day. A few people have been forced

166
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 3: to stand up there, but it does empty out throughout

167
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 3: the day. Not necessarily everyone has a connection to the case.

168
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,840
Speaker 3: While I'm sure there is plenty of family or people

169
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,920
Speaker 3: who have some sort of connection to the people involved

170
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:55,960
Speaker 3: in this case, I think a lot of people are

171
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 3: just people who are interested in what this is about

172
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,360
Speaker 3: and coming to check it out for themselves.

173
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, not a lot of people know that you can

174
00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,120
Speaker 1: just walk into a courtroom, sit down and take it

175
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 1: all in.

176
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:06,840
Speaker 2: That's right, open justice.

177
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,240
Speaker 1: So let's talk about last week who was on the stand.

178
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,760
Speaker 1: Did we have any interesting witnesses.

179
00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll just run you through them one by one

180
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 3: quickly if you like. So we had fifteen witnesses last week.

181
00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,120
Speaker 3: On Tuesday, which is when we had the openings in

182
00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,400
Speaker 3: the afternoon, I think we spoke last time. I said

183
00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,320
Speaker 3: there was a parks ranger and a hunter who met

184
00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:27,760
Speaker 3: mister Hill sort of a week before he was allegedly murdered.

185
00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,400
Speaker 3: The next day we had six witnesses. We had two

186
00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,679
Speaker 3: other hunters who were on that same trip as the

187
00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,599
Speaker 3: bloke from the day before, who spoke similar sort of

188
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,720
Speaker 3: evidence about their interactions with mister Hill. We had another

189
00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,040
Speaker 3: camper who met mister Hill and Missus Clay on a

190
00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,000
Speaker 3: trip in February twenty twenty. We had a friend of

191
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,720
Speaker 3: mister Hill called Michael Allen, who was an amateur radio enthusiast.

192
00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:51,200
Speaker 3: We had and this is the first time we had

193
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,640
Speaker 3: one of the family members. We had a woman called

194
00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 3: Emma Davies. She is the daughter of Carol Clay and

195
00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,679
Speaker 3: she was the first family member of one that deceased

196
00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 3: to give evidence. And then we had another guy called

197
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:04,560
Speaker 3: Wayne Foon who was a park ranger who had an

198
00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:08,200
Speaker 3: interaction with mister Lynn. On Thursday, we had four witnesses,

199
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,240
Speaker 3: Weed Spray's Robert Williams and Walter Gibbs, and these were

200
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,480
Speaker 3: guys who were in the Wanaganda Valley around the time

201
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 3: the couple vanished. And then we also had two hunters

202
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,200
Speaker 3: from New South Wales who gave their evidence via video link.

203
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 3: They both required a Serbian translator, and again they had

204
00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,720
Speaker 3: a couple of interactions with the deceased. On Friday, we

205
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,120
Speaker 3: had three of mister Hill's friends from his amateur radio group,

206
00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,040
Speaker 3: and yeah, they gave evidence about sort of the type

207
00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 3: of person he was.

208
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:35,920
Speaker 1: So let's break down that list a little bit. Can

209
00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,920
Speaker 1: you tell us a bit more about Emma's evidence?

210
00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:38,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, so.

211
00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 3: As I said, she is the daughter of Carol Clay.

212
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,880
Speaker 3: She was the first family member of one of the

213
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,040
Speaker 3: deceased to give evidence. She looked like she was about

214
00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,400
Speaker 3: in her late thirties or early forties, and she was

215
00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 3: brought to the witness box. And anyone who's ever been

216
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,240
Speaker 3: inside a courtroom can understand how intimidating it can be,

217
00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:01,000
Speaker 3: let alone giving evidence into the alleged murder of your mother.

218
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:05,160
Speaker 3: She spoke very well, She was very well composed, and

219
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,480
Speaker 3: she really spoke a little bit about what happened after

220
00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:12,120
Speaker 3: her mother disappeared. So she was contacted by police on

221
00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:15,080
Speaker 3: March twenty nine, So in the days after her mother

222
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,800
Speaker 3: disappeared by investigators from Sale Police, and they firstly asked

223
00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:22,120
Speaker 3: if she had spoken to her mother. She said she hadn't,

224
00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:26,200
Speaker 3: and if they could release a media statement or a

225
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 3: media release basically about her mother's disappearance, and she revealed

226
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,320
Speaker 3: she was aware of her mother's relationship with mister Hill

227
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 3: and one of the things that concerned her was that

228
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,200
Speaker 3: this media release was going to alert others to the

229
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 3: fact that mister Hill and missus Clay had been camping together. Oh,

230
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,120
Speaker 3: I see, But ultimately she said, you know, her mother

231
00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,000
Speaker 3: was missing, So she did sign off from that, but

232
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,079
Speaker 3: it was a concern that was in her mind.

233
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 1: So did I hear that there was a witness called

234
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:54,520
Speaker 1: Robbie Williams. What did he have to say?

235
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Robert Williams or Robbie Williams as he

236
00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:00,439
Speaker 3: was better known, just as Croucher, actually did a joke

237
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,440
Speaker 3: about that he was a weed sprayer contracted by Parks

238
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,520
Speaker 3: Victoria to do weed spraying in the Wantagata Valley around

239
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 3: the time of the couple's disappearance, and he actually had

240
00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,800
Speaker 3: interactions with both who we believe was miss de Lynne,

241
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:17,520
Speaker 3: and interactions with people we believe were missus Clay and

242
00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,840
Speaker 3: mister Hill. So he spoke about on March twenty, twenty twenty,

243
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,600
Speaker 3: this is the day the alleged murders took place, he

244
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,240
Speaker 3: saw a white Toyota land Cruiser. He described it as

245
00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,840
Speaker 3: being pretty snazzied up and he wouldn't have minded having

246
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,800
Speaker 3: it for himself, driven by an older man, and there

247
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,439
Speaker 3: was a woman sort of seated next to him and

248
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,720
Speaker 3: as a weed sprayer, and one of these contractors. He said,

249
00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,480
Speaker 3: most people would actually stop and talk to them while

250
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 3: they're working in the valley, but he thought it was

251
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,640
Speaker 3: a little bit surprising to see this car drives through

252
00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,280
Speaker 3: and when they saw him, he says, he accelerated.

253
00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

254
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,160
Speaker 3: Yes, He described it as being very unusual seeing this

255
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,960
Speaker 3: older man just whiz by him. And then he spoke

256
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,800
Speaker 3: about how after they finished their day's work, him and

257
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,680
Speaker 3: his colleagues, they returned to the camp site and he

258
00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,040
Speaker 3: noticed a drone flying above, and this drone's actually circled

259
00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 3: above their camp site. And he's waved to it, and

260
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:16,520
Speaker 3: then the drone has tilted its wings to acknowledge his wave,

261
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,959
Speaker 3: and then it's flown sort of further on down the campsite.

262
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,120
Speaker 3: He didn't know who it was owned by, but as

263
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,400
Speaker 3: we all know, the prosecution case is mister Hill was

264
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,439
Speaker 3: murdered by mister Lynn after an argument over their drone.

265
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,720
Speaker 3: Under cross examination, mister Williams said he found the drone

266
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:34,480
Speaker 3: a bit rude.

267
00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,400
Speaker 1: Oh interesting comment, absolutely, and didn't you say that mister

268
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,440
Speaker 1: Williams also had an interaction with mister Lynn.

269
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 3: We believe he was speaking about mister Lynn. When these

270
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,320
Speaker 3: people giving this evidence, they're not referring to them by

271
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 3: their names or pointing to the man in the dock.

272
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,560
Speaker 3: They're saying, you had an interaction with a man driving

273
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,040
Speaker 3: so and so vehicles. So we can't exactly say it

274
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,600
Speaker 3: was him, but it sounds like it was him. So

275
00:12:56,640 --> 00:12:59,439
Speaker 3: in March eighteen, he mister Williams describes how he was

276
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:02,320
Speaker 3: working to his wheat spraying when a man driving in

277
00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,880
Speaker 3: a Navy NISS patrol which is the same vehicle mister

278
00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,160
Speaker 3: Lynn owned, approached.

279
00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:09,480
Speaker 2: Their camp site. He got out.

280
00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,319
Speaker 3: He was wearing a singlet or a t shirt shorts.

281
00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,560
Speaker 3: He was quite sweaty. He was wearing gaiters, which are

282
00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,960
Speaker 3: these sort of protective clothing that you wear over your

283
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,679
Speaker 3: ankles to stop grass seed and from snakes and.

284
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 2: That sort of thing.

285
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,800
Speaker 3: And he said he approached asking where the best camp

286
00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,120
Speaker 3: site was in the area, and mister Williams said, he

287
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,200
Speaker 3: thought the man this is right at the started COVID,

288
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,840
Speaker 3: appeared sick and he asked him to stand back. The

289
00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,240
Speaker 3: man said he wasn't sick, he'd just been hunting. Mister

290
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,240
Speaker 3: Williams described it as quite a friendly conversation. He recommends

291
00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,520
Speaker 3: camp at Bucks Camp, which was a few hundred meters away,

292
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:49,000
Speaker 3: and that's of course the site where these alleged murders

293
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:49,520
Speaker 3: took place.

294
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,840
Speaker 1: A very fateful discussion exactly.

295
00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 2: And so this man then has driven off. He's seen him.

296
00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 3: He's working a few hundred meters away, so he can't

297
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:59,240
Speaker 3: see clearly, but he sees them pull into the site

298
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:02,200
Speaker 3: and he can actually see his bullbar through the scrub,

299
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,400
Speaker 3: and that indicated he was camping towards the back of

300
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,480
Speaker 3: the site. So that was interesting. A person that's had

301
00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,600
Speaker 3: these interactions with both parties, we think, so did.

302
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,320
Speaker 1: You mention that some of Russell Hill's mates also gave

303
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: evidence on Friday. What did they have to say?

304
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

305
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,640
Speaker 3: So a few of mister Hill's friends who were part

306
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:25,240
Speaker 3: of this amateur radio group gave evidence on Friday. Just

307
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,600
Speaker 3: give me a bit of information about what they did,

308
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 3: and also about the relationship mister Hill had with Missus Clay.

309
00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,720
Speaker 3: So just for context, these are a group of friends

310
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,720
Speaker 3: who are amateur radio enthusiasts.

311
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 2: They hold something called.

312
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,280
Speaker 3: An amateur radio license which enables them to communicate with

313
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 3: each other on these shared frequencies and they all have

314
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,080
Speaker 3: these amateur radio setups. Now, this group of friends would

315
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,440
Speaker 3: check in with one another most nights of the week

316
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,080
Speaker 3: around about six pm and they would just do general

317
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,840
Speaker 3: chit chat and they were I think a lot of

318
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,560
Speaker 3: them met through radio, but a lot hadn't actually met

319
00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 3: in person until some years later. We had one guy

320
00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,320
Speaker 3: called Robin Ashland. So he's a man from Gippsland. He

321
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 3: was friends with mister Hill. He's been a longtime friend

322
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 3: of him. He was a pretty knock about, sort of

323
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,360
Speaker 3: funny bloke, pretty sort of country I would say, And

324
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 3: he spoke about after mister Hill's disappearance how he spoke

325
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,520
Speaker 3: with mister Hill's wife, Robin, So mister Ashland spoke a

326
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 3: little bit about his knowledge of missus Clay and mister

327
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 3: Hill's affair. He spoke about how he actually had suspicions himself.

328
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 3: He had been out to visit some friends for lunch.

329
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 3: Mister Hill and missus Clay were there, and mister Hill

330
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:47,480
Speaker 3: introduced missus Clay as his friend. But mister Ashland said

331
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:51,040
Speaker 3: even blind Freddie could see how they looked each other.

332
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:53,240
Speaker 3: There was a bit more going on, so he had

333
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:54,080
Speaker 3: his suspicions.

334
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,480
Speaker 1: So what did mister Ashland reveal about the affair and

335
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 1: what he knew?

336
00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,440
Speaker 3: So, as I said, mister Ashland had some suspicions after

337
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:06,240
Speaker 3: meeting missus Clay at lunch, but those suspicions were really

338
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,720
Speaker 3: confirmed when he spoke to mister Hill's wife, Robin in

339
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 3: the days after the couple disappeared. She asked him if

340
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,840
Speaker 3: Carol Clay, missus Clay, was on the trip. She said

341
00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,160
Speaker 3: there had been some involvement. She'd been on the scene

342
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,280
Speaker 3: for about twenty years or so. So according to mister

343
00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,160
Speaker 3: Ashland his account, his version of events, he said, in

344
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:32,840
Speaker 3: this conversation he had with Missus Hill. She said her

345
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,480
Speaker 3: husband and Missus Clay had planned to leave the respective

346
00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,920
Speaker 3: partners so that they could be together, but he broke

347
00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,040
Speaker 3: his promise after Missus Clay had already divorced her husband,

348
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,520
Speaker 3: so he stayed together with Missus Hill. Robin, this is

349
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,280
Speaker 3: the account mister Ashland has given, so that just has

350
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 3: to be weighed up with the other other evidence.

351
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,480
Speaker 1: So let me get this straight. At some point in time,

352
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,760
Speaker 1: Missus Clay has left her husband to hopefully be with

353
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,919
Speaker 1: mister Hill. But even though they've had this agreement to

354
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,959
Speaker 1: leave their partners respectively, mister Hill hasn't held up his

355
00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,679
Speaker 1: end of the bargain and he's decided to stay with

356
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:16,760
Speaker 1: his wife even though he has told her about that pact,

357
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,840
Speaker 1: at least according to mister Ashland, so it seems like

358
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:22,240
Speaker 1: at this point in time, he's only one having an affair.

359
00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the evidence mister Ashlin gave to the court

360
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:25,439
Speaker 3: on Friday.

361
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 1: Now, there has been a lot of drama in court

362
00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:30,640
Speaker 1: over the last seven days, but it wasn't all serious,

363
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:31,000
Speaker 1: was it.

364
00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

365
00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 3: Look, anyone who's ever been in court understands they are

366
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 3: pretty serious places. But there are also workplaces, and that

367
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,200
Speaker 3: there's shades of humor and lightness in any place, including

368
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,679
Speaker 3: court rooms. Probably one of the funniest parts from the

369
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,360
Speaker 3: trials so far is when mister Ashland described a little

370
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,920
Speaker 3: bit about the last conversation he had with mister Hill,

371
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 3: which is on the radio about six pm on the

372
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:58,040
Speaker 3: night he was allegedly murdered, and he said he sounded

373
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,199
Speaker 3: like he was as happy as a piginhit. And he

374
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,360
Speaker 3: said that once, and then during cross examination he said

375
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,240
Speaker 3: it again, and then the defense said, oh, I wasn't

376
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 3: expecting you to say that again, and then he said,

377
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, mate, but I say it how it is.

378
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 2: So both those moments were pretty funny.

379
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad we could end on a light note.

380
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,760
Speaker 1: Thank you again for your time. Miles. Andrew will be

381
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,359
Speaker 1: back this Saturday for his regular show, and we'll be

382
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,199
Speaker 1: back next week for yet another bonus episode outlining all

383
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,119
Speaker 1: the latest in the trial. But Miles will be in

384
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,520
Speaker 1: court every day. He's not going anywhere, so please be

385
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 1: sure to check the heralds on website and the paper

386
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 1: for his daily updates. Thanks again, Miles, Thanks.

387
00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 2: Laura, thanks for listening.

388
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,399
Speaker 1: Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun Production for

389
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 1: True Crime Australia.

390
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,160
Speaker 2: Our producer is Johnty Burton.

391
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,840
Speaker 1: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot

392
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,640
Speaker 1: com dot au, forward.

393
00:18:55,320 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 3: Slash Andrew rule one word for advertising inquiries to news

394
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 3: podcasts sold.

395
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:04,920
Speaker 2: At news dot com dot au.

396
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 3: That is all one word news podcasts sold And if

397
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:15,159
Speaker 3: you want further information about this episode, links are in

398
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 3: the description