Kia: Hey, this is Kia. Landing your dream job brings happiness, long-
Kia: term career growth, and a better salary, but it can
Kia: be a tricky thing to get right. Welcome to another
Kia: episode of A Little Bit Richer, brought to you by
Kia: my friends at Legal & General. With over 10 years experience
Kia: in recruitment, and the last four of them at Legal &
Kia: General in London, Khalifa Mustapha is here to give us
Kia: lots of practical advice to help you land yourself that
Kia: perfect job. Welcome, Khalifa.
Khalifa Mustapha: Thank you. Pleasure to be here, Kia.
Kia: Now, let's get straight into it because I know you
Kia: are full of the gems that we need to know.
Kia: So to begin with, how do you get yourself ready for a
Kia: job that you'd like to go for?
Khalifa Mustapha: I think preparation is key, first and foremost. Try and
Khalifa Mustapha: do some research in terms of the specific role that you're
Khalifa Mustapha: looking to apply for. If you're able to find the
Khalifa Mustapha: necessary resources, find out why the job is available, if
Khalifa Mustapha: it's a new position, as a replacement position. As much
Khalifa Mustapha: background information about a position that you're interested in.
Kia: I think research is key, just knowing what you need
Kia: to know about that role. But what about different platforms to have a look at
Kia: that you can find more information? Like Glassdoor, I know
Kia: that's a really key one for a lot of people. What about that?
Khalifa Mustapha: Yeah, Glassdoor is a fantastic tool. You can find reviews
Khalifa Mustapha: from current employees, previous employees, individuals who may have applied
Khalifa Mustapha: for that same company that may not have been successful,
Khalifa Mustapha: what their experiences were like. Or you can find out
Khalifa Mustapha: what the interview process is like for a specific role.
Khalifa Mustapha: How many interviews you might expect. Even you might get
Khalifa Mustapha: a peek behind the curtain and see what type of
Khalifa Mustapha: questions may be asked. LinkedIn is also...
Kia: A really good one.
Khalifa Mustapha: An invaluable tool. You can do more research about the
Khalifa Mustapha: company, what the company's ethos is, what the brand is.
Khalifa Mustapha: Glassdoor and LinkedIn I would say would be probably your two prominent
Khalifa Mustapha: platforms to do some research.
Kia: What are some things that you should have a look at when it comes to actually the job specifications? Obviously
Kia: there's a lot of things to consider. I mean, if
Kia: I go and look for a job, how do I
Kia: know if I'm qualified for it, right? I can go
Kia: and apply to be a lawyer, but I have not
Kia: got a law degree. So what are some of the things that people need
Kia: to consider when they're looking at roles?
Khalifa Mustapha: Yeah, I think the most common thing people look at are the
Khalifa Mustapha: requirements. Which is good, but outside of the requirements are
Khalifa Mustapha: the capabilities, the accountabilities, what you'll be doing on a day- to-
Khalifa Mustapha: day basis. So I would say keep an eye the
Khalifa Mustapha: accountabilities and make sure that they align with what you're
Khalifa Mustapha: looking for, because a job title can be very vague
Khalifa Mustapha: or very specific, but it doesn't necessarily give you the
Khalifa Mustapha: entire picture. So keep an eye outside of what the
Khalifa Mustapha: requirements are, but what you're responsible for.
Kia: To follow off the back of that then, where are some good
Kia: places or sources that people can visit to help you
Kia: get a good role?
Khalifa Mustapha: Outside of a specific company's internal or external careers page,
Khalifa Mustapha: which is probably the number one source, I would say
Khalifa Mustapha: LinkedIn is also a relevant platform to look in. You
Khalifa Mustapha: can search in terms of the job title, specific locations.
Khalifa Mustapha: Using the LinkedIn groups tool is extremely beneficial. A lot
Khalifa Mustapha: of job seekers are able to connect with one another
Khalifa Mustapha: in the specific industry. They're able to visit industry events
Khalifa Mustapha: or keep up to date with rules and regulations within
Khalifa Mustapha: the industry. Again, able to grow your network in that
Khalifa Mustapha: field simply because you might be at an event and
Khalifa Mustapha: you might speak to someone or rub shoulders with someone
Khalifa Mustapha: and you might overhear that this company is hiring. Some
Khalifa Mustapha: companies don't necessarily always put jobs on their job board
Khalifa Mustapha: until they have the green light from HR, et cetera,
Khalifa Mustapha: but in LinkedIn groups especially, you almost get an inside
Khalifa Mustapha: leg in terms of what might be coming in the pipeline.
Kia: Yeah, I think industry- specific groups that you mentioned on LinkedIn, it's not
Kia: something that I've considered. I think there's a lot of
Kia: value that can come from your network.
Khalifa Mustapha: Definitely.
Kia: I'd say probably about 80% of the jobs that I've
Kia: gotten have been off the back of knowing people, having
Kia: conversations, people referred me somewhere, or someone's looking for something
Kia: and they meet me and offered me a job. So
Kia: it is always useful to build up that network as well.
Khalifa Mustapha: Agreed. Your network is invaluable and it's always a good idea to
Khalifa Mustapha: keep that network up to date.
Kia: Absolutely.
Khalifa Mustapha: Also, setting up job alerts will be extremely beneficial. You
Khalifa Mustapha: can type in the criteria, what your ideal job would
Khalifa Mustapha: be, the location, your desired salary, and as soon as
Khalifa Mustapha: those jobs are posted on the relevant job boards, they'll
Khalifa Mustapha: go to your inbox straight away. So if a new
Khalifa Mustapha: job is posted, it always helps you to be one
Khalifa Mustapha: of the first people in the queue to try and
Khalifa Mustapha: apply for that role. As a recruiter, I've had jobs
Khalifa Mustapha: that have had 200 plus applications, so a job alert
Khalifa Mustapha: is probably the most basic and primary way in order
Khalifa Mustapha: to do that.
Kia: We've spoken about where we can find the jobs and what
Kia: we need to research. Now we've picked something, we say, "
Kia: Right, we want to apply for this." So when you're actually applying for
Kia: a job, what are some things that you suggest helps
Kia: someone really stand out in the application process?
Khalifa Mustapha: My first tip would be to tailor your CV to
Khalifa Mustapha: the job application. If you're able to maybe marry what
Khalifa Mustapha: you've done previously, what you're currently doing to what is
Khalifa Mustapha: expected of you in the job, always try to highlight
Khalifa Mustapha: that towards the top. If there aren't any things you've
Khalifa Mustapha: done previously or currently that match what you'd be expected
Khalifa Mustapha: to do, as long as your requirements are aligned. A
Khalifa Mustapha: lot of people, they move into jobs, so they might
Khalifa Mustapha: apply for jobs that they feel they hit the brief
Khalifa Mustapha: 10 out of 10. Sometimes you might only have six
Khalifa Mustapha: out of 10 requirements. I wouldn't necessarily say that you
Khalifa Mustapha: wouldn't be suitable for a role, because those six requirements
Khalifa Mustapha: could be absolute essentials as opposed to the four you
Khalifa Mustapha: might be missing, which may be desired. So I would
Khalifa Mustapha: always say always try and amplify your CV to match
Khalifa Mustapha: the role you're currently applying for. Obviously not to embellish
Khalifa Mustapha: anything. It's quite easy to get found out. A lot
Khalifa Mustapha: of people might be a bit generous with their previous
Khalifa Mustapha: experience, but the recruitment industry people speak, even if we're
Khalifa Mustapha: not necessarily working at the same company. So you don't
Khalifa Mustapha: want to necessarily take yourself out of the running before
Khalifa Mustapha: you give yourself a chance.
Kia: What about when it comes to your cover letter then?
Kia: Because it could be a bit of a minefield to know what
Kia: you should do with your cover letter.
Khalifa Mustapha: I think where a lot of people fall down in
Khalifa Mustapha: terms of cover letters is they might oversell themselves. A
Khalifa Mustapha: cover letter shouldn't be more than I'd say a few
Khalifa Mustapha: paragraphs and only maybe three sentences per paragraph. You want
Khalifa Mustapha: to give just a glimpse in terms of what you've
Khalifa Mustapha: done previously and what you can offer to a company.
Khalifa Mustapha: You don't want to put everything in the cover letter.
Khalifa Mustapha: Ideally, a cover letter is an intro to your CV,
Khalifa Mustapha: and your CV should supplement what you say at the
Khalifa Mustapha: job interview. It should just be an introduction to who
Khalifa Mustapha: you are, what you're looking for, what you could potentially
Khalifa Mustapha: bring to not just the role you're interested in but
Khalifa Mustapha: the company you're looking to work for.
Kia: I think that's good to hear. And no one really
Kia: tells you what should go in a cover letter. So
Kia: you feel like it's like a pitch. I feel like I'm on Dragons' Den trying
Kia: to pitch myself, why I'm the perfect person for this role.
Khalifa Mustapha: Indeed.
Kia: Like you said, it's an introduction. I think that's a good way
Kia: to look at it. When you put it that way, it
Kia: feels a lot more manageable and it makes more sense.
Kia: It's an introduction and your CV will help back that up.
Khalifa Mustapha: Exactly.
Kia: So I love that. So let's say everyone's taken the
Kia: incredible tips you've given us so far, right? And now
Kia: they're invited to the interview.
Khalifa Mustapha: Nice. That's the hard part.
Kia: That's the hard part. But they've made it. They've gotten
Kia: to the interview stage.
Khalifa Mustapha: They've made it. Exactly.
Kia: They've made it there. What would be some of your
Kia: top tips when it comes to preparing for the interview
Kia: and then shining on the actual day?
Khalifa Mustapha: If you're actually called for an interview, you're almost halfway
Khalifa Mustapha: there. One of the biggest tips in terms of preparing
Khalifa Mustapha: for the interview, as I mentioned, research the company you're
Khalifa Mustapha: looking to work for. Prior to the interview, try and
Khalifa Mustapha: do some research. Has the company been in the news
Khalifa Mustapha: recently? Amplify what you know about the company more so
Khalifa Mustapha: than what you can see on the company's website. I
Khalifa Mustapha: think that gives employers an inside look in terms of
Khalifa Mustapha: this person really not just wants this job but they
Khalifa Mustapha: actually care for the company. And it also gives prospective
Khalifa Mustapha: employers a look into who you are as a person.
Khalifa Mustapha: A lot of people, they may feel, " I've matched the
Khalifa Mustapha: job brief, this is my job." They just have to
Khalifa Mustapha: show up. It takes a lot more than that. I've
Khalifa Mustapha: never ever heard of an employer say, " I didn't give
Khalifa Mustapha: this person the job because they know too much about
Khalifa Mustapha: the company." It's always the opposite. They may not have done
Khalifa Mustapha: enough research. They don't know what we stand for. Outside
Khalifa Mustapha: of that, always get rest the night before the interview.
Khalifa Mustapha: You don't want to go into an interview flustered. Never
Khalifa Mustapha: be late. I think that goes without saying. If it's
Khalifa Mustapha: in a location you're not familiar with, maybe do a trial
Khalifa Mustapha: run. If you're able to go there a day before,
Khalifa Mustapha: just so you know where you're going. And if it's a
Khalifa Mustapha: virtual interview via Teams or Zoom, make sure your wifi
Khalifa Mustapha: connection is up to scratch. No distractions whatsoever. And always
Khalifa Mustapha: dress appropriately. If you're not sure what the time may
Khalifa Mustapha: be, because obviously post- pandemic, a lot of interviews have
Khalifa Mustapha: been a little bit more relaxed, utilize your recruiter, asking
Khalifa Mustapha: them as many questions as possible.
Kia: Absolutely. I've had many an interview where I'm like, oh
Kia: my gosh, I'm so tense. So what should ideal, if you can control it, what should ideal body language look like?
Khalifa Mustapha: Ideal body language is... And it's probably easier said than
Khalifa Mustapha: done, but try to be as relaxed as possible. When
Khalifa Mustapha: you're nervous, you tend to speak-
Kia: Very fast. Yes.
Khalifa Mustapha: ... a lot quicker than you normally would. Exactly. So,
Khalifa Mustapha: breathe. Slow down. One of my biggest tips to a
Khalifa Mustapha: lot of my candidates is if you are offered water
Khalifa Mustapha: at a job interview or something to drink, always accept
Khalifa Mustapha: it, simply because you might encounter a question that you
Khalifa Mustapha: don't necessarily know the answer to straight away. So take
Khalifa Mustapha: a breath, have a sip of water. That gives you
Khalifa Mustapha: slight additional time to think about the answer to the question.
Kia: (inaudible) . Yeah, cool.
Khalifa Mustapha: And also in an interview, one of the most important
Khalifa Mustapha: things to consider is the balance between listening and speaking.
Khalifa Mustapha: You don't want to over- speak, you don't necessarily want
Khalifa Mustapha: to speak too much, and you don't want to under-
Khalifa Mustapha: speak. There's a fine line between either overselling yourself or
Khalifa Mustapha: underselling yourself. I've seen it where people who are extremely
Khalifa Mustapha: qualified for a job, they tend to speak themself out
Khalifa Mustapha: of a job. So it's a fine balance. The more
Khalifa Mustapha: interviews you attend, the more you'll get used to and
Khalifa Mustapha: understand when to speak and when not to speak. Don't
Khalifa Mustapha: get me wrong here, there's always going to be an
Khalifa Mustapha: element of nerves. I mean, it would be a bit
Khalifa Mustapha: odd if there weren't any nerves. As I mentioned, slow
Khalifa Mustapha: your speech, accept water if offered, and just try and
Khalifa Mustapha: understand that it's not just you trying to sell yourself.
Khalifa Mustapha: At the same time across the table from you is
Khalifa Mustapha: the interviewer trying to sell the company to you.
Kia: Sometimes it can feel, oh my gosh.
Khalifa Mustapha: One sided.
Kia: Yeah, it feels very one sided, that I'm pitching myself.
Kia: But yeah, you're right. They are also trying to convince
Kia: you that this is a role for you. Now, I
Kia: was always told when you go into an interview, when
Kia: they ask you, " Do you have any questions?" you should
Kia: always have at least one question in your back pocket
Kia: ready to pull out to try and impress. From an
Kia: employer's perspective, what would be some good questions that a
Kia: candidate could ask when they're in an interview?
Khalifa Mustapha: Yeah, I agree. I always tell my candidates if possible,
Khalifa Mustapha: ask maybe two or three. One thing an employee doesn't
Khalifa Mustapha: want to see is someone that has no questions. I
Khalifa Mustapha: think that shows a lack of interest in not just
Khalifa Mustapha: the job but the company as a whole. One question I
Khalifa Mustapha: always encourage is, " What challenges can I expect to face
Khalifa Mustapha: in the first three to six to 12 months in
Khalifa Mustapha: the role?" That gives you an opportunity to peek behind
Khalifa Mustapha: the curtain in terms of... Everything's not always going to
Khalifa Mustapha: be rosy. So it gives the employer an opportunity to
Khalifa Mustapha: let you know what it's like on the ground once
Khalifa Mustapha: you've started from day one. A few more questions I
Khalifa Mustapha: would always encourage job seekers to ask is what do
Khalifa Mustapha: they enjoy about working at the company? And a further
Khalifa Mustapha: question to ask is, where can this job lead to
Khalifa Mustapha: in 18 to 24 months? You don't want to be
Khalifa Mustapha: seen as using this specific job as a stepping stone
Khalifa Mustapha: or being seen as being impatient, but you also don't
Khalifa Mustapha: want to be seen as not necessarily motivated. So find
Khalifa Mustapha: out what doors, what avenues this job can open or
Khalifa Mustapha: lead to.
Kia: I think that's really, really useful. Just having those questions,
Kia: yeah. I think the challenges one is not one that
Kia: I thought about. We know that some job applications will
Kia: have the initial application, then interview, and some of them
Kia: have two, three, maybe even four rounds of interviews. So
Kia: what are you, from an employer's perspective, looking for more
Kia: of in a second interview compared to the first?
Khalifa Mustapha: In a second interview, I think what most employees would be
Khalifa Mustapha: looking for is how you'll fit in with the company.
Khalifa Mustapha: What's Kia like as a person? What are her interests
Khalifa Mustapha: outside of work and how do those characteristics align with
Khalifa Mustapha: the company's morals? So in the second interview, I would always
Khalifa Mustapha: encourage, if you have any extracurricular activities, if you've done
Khalifa Mustapha: any volunteering, that's the time to amplify those qualities or
Khalifa Mustapha: those traits. You've gotten past the first interview, which is
Khalifa Mustapha: mostly technical. Can you do the job? Are you suitable
Khalifa Mustapha: for the job? Now it's, will I feel comfortable having
Khalifa Mustapha: you represent the company? Are you someone that I can
Khalifa Mustapha: see flourishing within this company?
Kia: After you've been to an interview, quite often you're on
Kia: tenterhooks. You're wondering, have I got it? Have I not? So
Kia: what's the best way to follow up after you've gone
Kia: to an interview?
Khalifa Mustapha: Send an email thanking the interviewers for their time if you
Khalifa Mustapha: have access to their email address. If it has reinforced
Khalifa Mustapha: your desire to work for a specific company, do say that, "
Khalifa Mustapha: I really enjoyed meeting you. Thank you for your time.
Khalifa Mustapha: After learning more about the role in the company, it's
Khalifa Mustapha: only reinforced my desire to work alongside you in this
Khalifa Mustapha: job." But leave it at that. Don't ask, " When can
Khalifa Mustapha: I hear from you?" You might be one of two
Khalifa Mustapha: interviews. You might be one of 10. So you don't
Khalifa Mustapha: necessarily know what that timeframe looks like. If you haven't
Khalifa Mustapha: heard in... I'd say if you give it maybe a
Khalifa Mustapha: week, a week and a half, maybe send a gentle
Khalifa Mustapha: email just to say, " Hi, hiring manager. It was a
Khalifa Mustapha: pleasure meeting you. I just wondered if I could potentially
Khalifa Mustapha: expect an update at any point." Just leave it at that.
Khalifa Mustapha: I wouldn't recommend chasing anything beyond that. If you haven't
Khalifa Mustapha: heard anything in over two or three weeks, then realistically
Khalifa Mustapha: you probably haven't received it, but even still, use that
Khalifa Mustapha: as a learning. I always say there are no negatives
Khalifa Mustapha: in an interview. Even if you don't get the job,
Khalifa Mustapha: you should always receive interview feedback, and in that feedback
Khalifa Mustapha: look for tips where you can apply for the next
Khalifa Mustapha: interview. Until you have actually been offered a role, you
Khalifa Mustapha: should always continue that job search because you just never
Khalifa Mustapha: know. It's a numbers game. If you apply for just
Khalifa Mustapha: one, realistically, you'll probably be disappointed. So never rest on
Khalifa Mustapha: your laurels.
Kia: Yeah, I agree. And don't let it get you down.
Kia: Everything is a lesson.
Khalifa Mustapha: Exactly.
Kia: So if you didn't get this one, get the feedback, implement
Kia: it so the next one you can improve and get
Kia: better, and then you will be offered a job role.
Khalifa Mustapha: Indeed.
Kia: So I think that is a very positive way to look at it.
Khalifa Mustapha: Sometimes the next one is the best one.
Kia: Exactly that. Rejection is redirection. I'm coming back with those.
Kia: We're going back and forth.
Khalifa Mustapha: Give me a few minutes, I'll have another one for you.
Kia: Yeah, you'll have another one. Okay, so let's assume someone's gone through all
Kia: of these stages and they've actually been offered the job.
Kia: Amazing. How do you then go about negotiating the salary
Kia: and the benefits that you feel like you deserve?
Khalifa Mustapha: In most cases, Kia, it's never a good idea to
Khalifa Mustapha: discuss salary with the actual interviewer or the employer. A
Khalifa Mustapha: lot of companies pay recruiters a handsome fee to take
Khalifa Mustapha: care of their job searches for them, so always try
Khalifa Mustapha: and find out beforehand from your recruiter what a job
Khalifa Mustapha: is paying. If you don't for whatever reason have access
Khalifa Mustapha: to a recruiter, you can utilize a lot of job
Khalifa Mustapha: boards. Glassdoor's one, for example. Totaljobs, Indeed, Reed, just off the
Khalifa Mustapha: top of my head. A lot of these websites have
Khalifa Mustapha: salary calculators. So you'd be able to enter the job
Khalifa Mustapha: title, enter the location, and it gives you a rough
Khalifa Mustapha: estimate what to expect from that. But one thing I
Khalifa Mustapha: would say, Kia, it's not always about salary. Sometimes the
Khalifa Mustapha: wider benefits are much more important than how much you'll
Khalifa Mustapha: take home every month. What's the company's pension like? How
Khalifa Mustapha: much holiday are you offered? Is there a potential bonus
Khalifa Mustapha: plan? Those are the wider perks of a role that I think
Khalifa Mustapha: could potentially go amiss initially. I can't state enough how important a good pension is.
Kia: Important. Very important, pension, yeah.
Khalifa Mustapha: Exactly. Because we're not going to be in our twenties forever.
Kia: Yeah. We talk about all the time on A Little
Kia: Bit Richer, pensions are so important.
Khalifa Mustapha: Exactly.
Kia: Like negotiate holidays, other things, even like learn new skills,
Kia: you want to learn new language. All the things that you
Kia: can negotiate that isn't just-
Khalifa Mustapha: Will they invest in training for you?
Kia: Exactly. Training. It isn't just the monetary value of the
Kia: salary you're going to get, there is a wider scope
Kia: that you can have a look at.
Khalifa Mustapha: Helps you get a little bit richer.
Kia: You are taking my line from me. I'm going to
Kia: be out of a job soon. Okay. Well, you shared some
Kia: incredible tips on this podcast, but before we end, I
Kia: want to ask you, what are your top three tips
Kia: for landing that fabulous new job?
Khalifa Mustapha: Top tip will always be research. Research the company. You
Khalifa Mustapha: can never do too much research. Tip two would be
Khalifa Mustapha: flexible. Don't expect to always get the first role you
Khalifa Mustapha: apply for. Always work from a numbers mindset. And third
Khalifa Mustapha: tip I would say is just be positive. There are always
Khalifa Mustapha: going to be lessons in life, not just your job
Khalifa Mustapha: search, but things aren't always going to go your way.
Khalifa Mustapha: And the job search specifically, it can be very easy
Khalifa Mustapha: to adopt maybe a negative mindset. " I've been looking for
Khalifa Mustapha: months now and I haven't found anything." But the day
Khalifa Mustapha: you give up, tomorrow is...
Kia: That could be the day.
Khalifa Mustapha: That could be the day. Exactly.
Kia: Could be the day.
Khalifa Mustapha: So, research, positivity, and flexibility I think are three keys
Khalifa Mustapha: that will get you far. Not necessarily just in the
Khalifa Mustapha: job search, but in your career will help you flourish.
Kia: Amazing. Thank you so much. I have taken so much.
Kia: I know our listeners will have too. So Khalifa, thank
Kia: you for coming to the podcast.
Khalifa Mustapha: Kia, absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Kia: Great. Thank you, Khalifa. Lots of practical ways people can
Kia: land the job of their dreams. Next time, we're getting
Kia: lots of great advice from financial planner Orann Coyle, who's
Kia: going to be demystifying financial advice and giving great tips
Kia: to plan your financial future. I'd love it if you
Kia: could review the podcast, spread the word, and help others get a little
Kia: bit richer too. Keep up with the show on TikTok and Instagram
Kia: at Legal & General. Thank you for listening. See you soon.