1 00:00:03,630 --> 00:00:06,750 Krutika Adatia: Hello and welcome back to On Your Marks from ACCA. 2 00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:11,160 Krutika Adatia: I'm Krutika Adatia and I'm a chartered accountant. I now support 3 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:15,090 Krutika Adatia: accountancy students through their training and as an educator, I'm 4 00:00:15,090 --> 00:00:18,120 Krutika Adatia: regularly up close and personal with some of the common 5 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:22,140 Krutika Adatia: issues people face while studying for and sitting their accountancy 6 00:00:22,140 --> 00:00:25,890 Krutika Adatia: exams. So in this series for ACCA, I'm chatting to 7 00:00:25,890 --> 00:00:29,370 Krutika Adatia: experts about strategies we can all use when facing some 8 00:00:29,370 --> 00:00:34,380 Krutika Adatia: of life's challenges. This week we're looking at productivity. When 9 00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:37,890 Krutika Adatia: there's a lot to do, studying, working, household chores, and 10 00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:41,430 Krutika Adatia: a million other activities that make up everyday life, we 11 00:00:41,430 --> 00:00:43,470 Krutika Adatia: all know it can be really hard to fit everything 12 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:46,680 Krutika Adatia: in. So how can we stay productive when faced with 13 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,520 Krutika Adatia: lots of tasks to accomplish? How does stress both help 14 00:00:50,580 --> 00:00:54,900 Krutika Adatia: and hinder productivity? And what are some of the real techniques 15 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:57,450 Krutika Adatia: we can all use to make the most out of 16 00:00:57,450 --> 00:01:01,590 Krutika Adatia: our time without burning out? This is On Your Marks, 17 00:01:01,650 --> 00:01:11,130 Krutika Adatia: because you'll never know until you try. Now I don't know about you, but I'm 18 00:01:11,130 --> 00:01:14,190 Krutika Adatia: constantly battling with a never ending to do list of 19 00:01:14,190 --> 00:01:18,840 Krutika Adatia: tasks, both within and outside of work. There never seems 20 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,959 Krutika Adatia: to be enough hours in the day and so I'm 21 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,380 Krutika Adatia: hustling hard to do everything and feeling like I'm achieving 22 00:01:25,380 --> 00:01:28,380 Krutika Adatia: nothing. Even when I was a student studying for my 23 00:01:28,380 --> 00:01:32,970 Krutika Adatia: accountancy exams, optimizing for productivity just felt like a constant 24 00:01:32,970 --> 00:01:36,840 Krutika Adatia: challenge. So I'm really excited to be speaking with Dean 25 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:42,569 Krutika Adatia: Burnett. He's a neuroscientist, author, and broadcaster fascinated by our 26 00:01:42,569 --> 00:01:47,100 Krutika Adatia: brain's behaviors and how we can optimize for them. So 27 00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:49,380 Krutika Adatia: Dean, I'm going to start with what I think might 28 00:01:49,380 --> 00:01:55,050 Krutika Adatia: seem like an obvious question, but what does productivity mean or being productive 29 00:01:55,050 --> 00:01:55,980 Krutika Adatia: actually mean? 30 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,440 Dean Burnett : It's obviously a very important question and I think it's one 31 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,380 Dean Burnett : which can differ depending on who you're talking to. But 32 00:02:01,380 --> 00:02:05,280 Dean Burnett : I think ultimately it is the time you spent doing 33 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,340 Dean Burnett : things to achieve a certain goal or a certain outcome. 34 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,300 Dean Burnett : In terms of psychology and neuroscientific stuff, we think of 35 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,769 Dean Burnett : tasks and goals. So obviously what you count as productive 36 00:02:16,770 --> 00:02:20,040 Dean Burnett : will very much depend on what you're doing, how important 37 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,360 Dean Burnett : it is, how much progress you made towards achieving or 38 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,359 Dean Burnett : completing the task. And so yeah, it's a kind of a mishmash 39 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,580 Dean Burnett : of various things, but I think we all understand at 40 00:02:29,580 --> 00:02:32,460 Dean Burnett : a basic level that it's getting important things done or 41 00:02:32,460 --> 00:02:34,590 Dean Burnett : useful things done perhaps. That's probably a better way to 42 00:02:34,590 --> 00:02:35,010 Dean Burnett : phrase it. 43 00:02:35,220 --> 00:02:37,380 Krutika Adatia: Yeah, I really like that. And I guess when I 44 00:02:37,380 --> 00:02:40,169 Krutika Adatia: think of productivity, maybe with my accounting hat on, I 45 00:02:40,169 --> 00:02:43,680 Krutika Adatia: often correlate it with efficiency. So the input that you 46 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,780 Krutika Adatia: put in and the output, and I sort of like how 47 00:02:45,780 --> 00:02:48,840 Krutika Adatia: you've kind of described it as the goals and sort 48 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:53,040 Krutika Adatia: of achieving what you want to achieve. Just thinking about 49 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:56,820 Krutika Adatia: some productivity hacks and even when I was a student 50 00:02:56,820 --> 00:03:00,540 Krutika Adatia: dean, I was told that listening to classical music as 51 00:03:00,570 --> 00:03:04,320 Krutika Adatia: an example helps with productivity or it's meant to help 52 00:03:04,650 --> 00:03:09,000 Krutika Adatia: something in your brain. What are some of the productivity hacks that you're aware 53 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:11,820 Krutika Adatia: of that actually help to be more productive? 54 00:03:11,970 --> 00:03:15,240 Dean Burnett : Yeah. Well, the music one is actually quite intriguing because a lot of people did once 55 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,690 Dean Burnett : think that, well, that's a distraction. Surely you shouldn't be trying 56 00:03:18,690 --> 00:03:20,940 Dean Burnett : to focus on two things, you focus solely on the 57 00:03:20,940 --> 00:03:22,620 Dean Burnett : thing in front of you and music is something else 58 00:03:22,620 --> 00:03:24,990 Dean Burnett : to pay attention to. But that isn't quite how it 59 00:03:24,990 --> 00:03:27,690 Dean Burnett : works with our brain and things like that because a 60 00:03:27,690 --> 00:03:30,570 Dean Burnett : lot of subconscious processes happening when we're trying to consciously 61 00:03:30,570 --> 00:03:34,110 Dean Burnett : focus on a task like something complex like accounting. As 62 00:03:34,110 --> 00:03:36,120 Dean Burnett : you play music, it actually sort of keeps them occupied 63 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,550 Dean Burnett : in terms of the parts of your attention which would 64 00:03:38,550 --> 00:03:41,490 Dean Burnett : normally distract you like background noises or if you're in a library, 65 00:03:41,490 --> 00:03:43,770 Dean Burnett : someone coughs, that could be quite distracting, it's a very 66 00:03:43,770 --> 00:03:46,590 Dean Burnett : natural, normal thing. It's just like the fact that it's totally 67 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:48,930 Dean Burnett : silent and those things stand out can make them more 68 00:03:48,930 --> 00:03:52,350 Dean Burnett : distracting. So if you have music playing, then those parts 69 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:53,850 Dean Burnett : of your brain, which would be looking for things to 70 00:03:53,850 --> 00:03:56,850 Dean Burnett : pay attention to are occupied. So like giving a sort 71 00:03:56,850 --> 00:03:58,830 Dean Burnett : of excitable dog a chew toy, just like, " Okay, be 72 00:03:58,830 --> 00:04:00,390 Dean Burnett : quiet. I've got work to do." I think there's some 73 00:04:00,390 --> 00:04:03,060 Dean Burnett : studies which suggest that the soundtracks of video games have 74 00:04:03,060 --> 00:04:06,240 Dean Burnett : the best effect in this area because just by sort 75 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,230 Dean Burnett : of necessity, they are developed to be something which you can hear 76 00:04:10,230 --> 00:04:12,120 Dean Burnett : in the background while focused on something else. So that's sort of 77 00:04:12,630 --> 00:04:16,080 Dean Burnett : the reason they exist is to allow you to concentrate on a different task. 78 00:04:16,140 --> 00:04:19,380 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. And it's interesting that you mentioned the video games and 79 00:04:19,380 --> 00:04:22,200 Krutika Adatia: the music of that. I'm also thinking back to when 80 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,480 Krutika Adatia: I was doing my Maths A level, I used to 81 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,089 Krutika Adatia: study with one of my friends who loved listening to 82 00:04:27,089 --> 00:04:29,940 Krutika Adatia: Choice FM. So for our listeners or those viewing that 83 00:04:29,940 --> 00:04:31,860 Krutika Adatia: don't know what Choice FM is, it used to play 84 00:04:31,860 --> 00:04:34,350 Krutika Adatia: a lot of R& B hip hop music. So there 85 00:04:34,350 --> 00:04:36,540 Krutika Adatia: was a lot of lyrics, a lot of upbeat music 86 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,150 Krutika Adatia: and every time I would study with her and listen 87 00:04:39,150 --> 00:04:42,720 Krutika Adatia: to Choice FM, I couldn't actually focus because it had 88 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,529 Krutika Adatia: lyrics in there, whereas classical music worked for me. So 89 00:04:46,890 --> 00:04:49,740 Krutika Adatia: I guess I'm just trying to also ask, are there 90 00:04:49,740 --> 00:04:52,410 Krutika Adatia: any nuances like that or anything else that we should 91 00:04:52,410 --> 00:04:54,900 Krutika Adatia: be mindful of when it comes to productivity hacks? 92 00:04:56,250 --> 00:04:58,680 Dean Burnett : If you have a preference for things like hip hop or R& 93 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,900 Dean Burnett : B, then obviously your brain's very familiar with it. So 94 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:04,080 Dean Burnett : you can sort of treat it as background. Now, if 95 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,850 Dean Burnett : you go on YouTube, you'll find things like lo- fi 96 00:05:05,850 --> 00:05:09,540 Dean Burnett : study music. It's just calm, soothing, background noise, which is 97 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:11,880 Dean Burnett : complex enough to occupy those parts of your brain, but 98 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,640 Dean Burnett : not so complex that you have to think about it. 99 00:05:15,150 --> 00:05:18,750 Dean Burnett : But in terms of the productivity (inaudible) other things 100 00:05:18,750 --> 00:05:23,610 Dean Burnett : offer, there are plenty of apps, things that lock you out of social media 101 00:05:23,610 --> 00:05:26,219 Dean Burnett : if you're working on your laptop as most people are these days or 102 00:05:26,430 --> 00:05:29,430 Dean Burnett : your phone and therefore they can sort of, if you 103 00:05:29,670 --> 00:05:32,940 Dean Burnett : just compulsively check your feeds just every 10 minutes, they 104 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:35,099 Dean Burnett : stop you from doing that. It depends on how much 105 00:05:35,100 --> 00:05:36,930 Dean Burnett : of a problem that is for you. If you aren't 106 00:05:36,930 --> 00:05:40,890 Dean Burnett : someone who checks social media regularly or anything like that, then 107 00:05:40,890 --> 00:05:43,890 Dean Burnett : they won't make much difference. Everybody is unique and no 108 00:05:43,890 --> 00:05:46,680 Dean Burnett : two brains are ultimately alike. So yeah, there's always going 109 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:47,700 Dean Burnett : to be a subjective element. 110 00:05:47,820 --> 00:05:50,310 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. So it's not a one size fits all kind 111 00:05:50,310 --> 00:05:50,730 Krutika Adatia: of thing. 112 00:05:50,730 --> 00:05:51,420 Dean Burnett : Really, yeah. 113 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,960 Krutika Adatia: There's something else I've also heard in terms of productivity 114 00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:00,540 Krutika Adatia: hacks around making sure that you're well nutritioned and eating well 115 00:06:00,540 --> 00:06:04,049 Krutika Adatia: to try and be productive. Any kind of advice around that? 116 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:09,120 Dean Burnett : The common refrain is that breakfast is the most important 117 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:10,500 Dean Burnett : meal of the day. You wake up, you have to 118 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:13,620 Dean Burnett : eat your breakfast and therefore you're fueled up for the 119 00:06:13,620 --> 00:06:16,260 Dean Burnett : day ahead. And there is some evidence which supports that. You're thinking, 120 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,110 Dean Burnett : I'm thinking about the work. You've not got the background hum 121 00:06:19,110 --> 00:06:22,589 Dean Burnett : of appetite just sort of slowly creeping up and distracting 122 00:06:22,589 --> 00:06:25,050 Dean Burnett : you from what you should be doing. So there's that 123 00:06:25,050 --> 00:06:28,230 Dean Burnett : argument, but there's also a lot of neuroscientific evidence which suggests 124 00:06:28,529 --> 00:06:32,850 Dean Burnett : that the experience of being hungry does affect your mental 125 00:06:32,850 --> 00:06:36,120 Dean Burnett : processes, but sometimes in helpful ways, because if you're hungry, 126 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,279 Dean Burnett : it can make you more curious, it can make you 127 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,370 Dean Burnett : more exploratory because obviously there's a deep part of your brain thinking, " 128 00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:44,520 Dean Burnett : Where is food? I need food, must find food." Therefore, 129 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,409 Dean Burnett : you've got the urge to seek out stuff or look 130 00:06:46,410 --> 00:06:49,919 Dean Burnett : up stuff. But if your productive work involves that, that 131 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,289 Dean Burnett : can be helpful. You are actually, the brain tends to 132 00:06:52,290 --> 00:06:54,419 Dean Burnett : run more efficiently then, but that's more of a sort 133 00:06:54,420 --> 00:06:57,960 Dean Burnett : of long- term thing. You can't skip breakfast and suddenly 134 00:06:58,589 --> 00:07:02,279 Dean Burnett : step up a gear. And that's more of a long- term diet plan. 135 00:07:02,310 --> 00:07:04,500 Dean Burnett : If you eat a lot of junk or if you 136 00:07:04,740 --> 00:07:07,529 Dean Burnett : drink too much caffeine or even alcohols the night before, 137 00:07:07,529 --> 00:07:10,680 Dean Burnett : it can obviously make you more sluggish, make you more 138 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,670 Dean Burnett : irritable, lower mood and things which will impact your productivity. 139 00:07:14,970 --> 00:07:19,080 Dean Burnett : Yes, good nutrition is important, but it probably will never 140 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,020 Dean Burnett : be the be all and end all. So keep it 141 00:07:22,020 --> 00:07:24,270 Dean Burnett : in mind, it's a factor in productivity, but you can't 142 00:07:24,270 --> 00:07:27,390 Dean Burnett : sort of make yourself totally productive with nutrition alone. 143 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,030 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. And well noted. Thank you for sharing some of those 144 00:07:30,030 --> 00:07:33,390 Krutika Adatia: hacks. And I guess on the flip side, I don't know if that's the right 145 00:07:33,390 --> 00:07:36,840 Krutika Adatia: way to word it, but there are also productivity myths 146 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,380 Krutika Adatia: out there. Could you help share some of those ones 147 00:07:40,380 --> 00:07:41,880 Krutika Adatia: that we ought to be debunking? 148 00:07:41,970 --> 00:07:44,340 Dean Burnett : Yeah. One of the things I've been delved into recently 149 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:46,620 Dean Burnett : from one of my new books I've got coming out is this 150 00:07:46,620 --> 00:07:49,560 Dean Burnett : idea that early rising is the be all and end 151 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:54,210 Dean Burnett : all because it's a very common trend online now particularly, 152 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:57,150 Dean Burnett : but also in various interviews with high profile peoples like 153 00:07:57,150 --> 00:08:02,070 Dean Burnett : CEOs and influencers and billionaires and people who want to 154 00:08:02,070 --> 00:08:06,630 Dean Burnett : share their secrets with the world. It's a big trend 155 00:08:06,630 --> 00:08:11,010 Dean Burnett : for these really demanding daily routines and like basically people saying, " 156 00:08:11,190 --> 00:08:14,190 Dean Burnett : I get up at 4: 00 A.M. and do 7, 000 squat 157 00:08:14,190 --> 00:08:16,830 Dean Burnett : thrusts and I eat a bucket of cheer seeds and 158 00:08:17,310 --> 00:08:19,560 Dean Burnett : then I do all my emails and at 7: 00 A.M. and I'm 159 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,240 Dean Burnett : ready for the day. What are you doing?" And okay, I 160 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:25,380 Dean Burnett : can sort of see where that comes from, but there's 161 00:08:25,380 --> 00:08:28,530 Dean Burnett : no evidence that that actually helps at all because if you 162 00:08:28,530 --> 00:08:31,200 Dean Burnett : wake up at 4: 00 A.M., you are potentially losing sleep. 163 00:08:31,290 --> 00:08:33,030 Dean Burnett : It depends when you go to bed, of course, but 164 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,110 Dean Burnett : the rest of the world doesn't revolve around your schedule. 165 00:08:37,140 --> 00:08:39,690 Dean Burnett : So there are this idea that you just go for 166 00:08:39,690 --> 00:08:41,580 Dean Burnett : a run, you'll instantly be more productive. Or if you 167 00:08:41,580 --> 00:08:43,559 Dean Burnett : eat clean, you eat more productive, you wake up at 4: 00 A. 168 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,290 Dean Burnett : M. And get everything done. But if you look at 169 00:08:46,290 --> 00:08:52,260 Dean Burnett : these insane daily routines, assuming they are being truthful, the 170 00:08:52,260 --> 00:08:55,020 Dean Burnett : ability to decide that I'm going to wake up at 4: 171 00:08:55,020 --> 00:08:56,820 Dean Burnett : 00 A.M. and structure my day like this and everyone's going 172 00:08:56,820 --> 00:08:59,220 Dean Burnett : to conform to what I do, those are options available 173 00:08:59,220 --> 00:09:03,209 Dean Burnett : to successful people, high profile, rich people. So I wouldn't 174 00:09:03,210 --> 00:09:06,210 Dean Burnett : say, no, that is your routine now. After you've done 175 00:09:06,210 --> 00:09:08,490 Dean Burnett : all the productive work to get to this point, everyone 176 00:09:08,490 --> 00:09:10,679 Dean Burnett : who is successful has had a modicum of luck, have 177 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,650 Dean Burnett : good fortune because that's just how the world works, but 178 00:09:13,650 --> 00:09:16,500 Dean Burnett : that's not really something you can sell. What works for 179 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:18,300 Dean Burnett : you? What can you fit into your schedule and what 180 00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:22,260 Dean Burnett : suits you better? Like the whole wake up at 4:00 A. M. 181 00:09:22,260 --> 00:09:26,130 Dean Burnett : thing, people have what they call a chronotype. We say early 182 00:09:26,130 --> 00:09:27,750 Dean Burnett : birds or night dowels. If you wake up in the 183 00:09:27,750 --> 00:09:31,260 Dean Burnett : morning or you stay up late, these are chronotypes, like 184 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:34,620 Dean Burnett : there's the sleep cycle your brain defaults to. Most people 185 00:09:34,620 --> 00:09:38,189 Dean Burnett : are early birds because humans evolve to wake up with 186 00:09:38,190 --> 00:09:42,600 Dean Burnett : the daylight. Some people will be genetically predisposed to staying 187 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,449 Dean Burnett : up late and waking up late, but getting enough sleep 188 00:09:45,450 --> 00:09:47,730 Dean Burnett : for you is probably far more important than get in 189 00:09:47,970 --> 00:09:50,880 Dean Burnett : early nights and waking up early. So if you are 190 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,040 Dean Burnett : someone who inclined to go to bed at 2: 00 A. 191 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,130 Dean Burnett : M., fair enough, then make sure you get enough sleep. 192 00:09:56,130 --> 00:09:59,100 Dean Burnett : You want to wake up 10:00, you wake up at 10:00, if you get a full eight hours. 193 00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:01,890 Dean Burnett : That'll make you more productive than forcing yourself to be 194 00:10:01,890 --> 00:10:05,550 Dean Burnett : up at 7: 00 A.M. or 6:00 A.M. to fit everyone else's expectations. 195 00:10:05,820 --> 00:10:13,620 Krutika Adatia: So fascinating. When you were talking about those successful people and talking about the routines they have at that point I thought, " Has he been checking my 196 00:10:13,620 --> 00:10:15,089 Krutika Adatia: algorithm and what I'm seeing?" 197 00:10:15,270 --> 00:10:16,559 Dean Burnett : It's quite common, yeah. 198 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,110 Krutika Adatia: Because honestly, I do see a lot of that and sometimes 199 00:10:19,380 --> 00:10:22,290 Krutika Adatia: that can go into sort of toxic productivity, which I'm 200 00:10:22,290 --> 00:10:25,410 Krutika Adatia: sure we'll touch on as well and interesting that you 201 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:28,050 Krutika Adatia: also mentioned about chronotypes because I was thinking, " Yeah, I'm 202 00:10:28,050 --> 00:10:30,240 Krutika Adatia: a morning person. I know that works for me." But 203 00:10:30,510 --> 00:10:33,569 Krutika Adatia: there are others where that just doesn't. Something else we 204 00:10:33,570 --> 00:10:37,350 Krutika Adatia: often hear about as a productivity hack, I suppose, is 205 00:10:37,350 --> 00:10:40,860 Krutika Adatia: this idea of multitasking. And I've always thought, " Yeah, I 206 00:10:40,860 --> 00:10:44,070 Krutika Adatia: can multitask." But it became abundantly clear that I couldn't 207 00:10:44,070 --> 00:10:47,309 Krutika Adatia: when I was driving my friend to another friend's house 208 00:10:47,309 --> 00:10:51,420 Krutika Adatia: and we approached a roundabout where the roundabout was unfamiliar 209 00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:53,790 Krutika Adatia: to me and my friend was yapping away and I 210 00:10:53,790 --> 00:10:57,000 Krutika Adatia: had to tell her, " Please stop yapping." Because I needed 211 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,189 Krutika Adatia: to focus on the roundabout. So I was like, " Yeah, 212 00:10:59,190 --> 00:11:01,650 Krutika Adatia: I cannot multitask at this point." I couldn't hear what 213 00:11:01,650 --> 00:11:03,690 Krutika Adatia: she was saying and also focus on the road. So 214 00:11:04,230 --> 00:11:07,949 Krutika Adatia: what's actually happening in our brains when we're multitasking? 215 00:11:08,578 --> 00:11:12,600 Dean Burnett : Yeah. I think we come to multitasking, there's a preconception that we 216 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,780 Dean Burnett : have multiple streams coming in at once and some people 217 00:11:15,780 --> 00:11:19,080 Dean Burnett : can focus on three or four, some can just do one or 218 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,140 Dean Burnett : two, some can do five or six and those are 219 00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:24,929 Dean Burnett : better multitaskers, but that doesn't seem to be how the 220 00:11:24,929 --> 00:11:27,630 Dean Burnett : brain actually works. When it comes to the brain's attention 221 00:11:27,630 --> 00:11:30,240 Dean Burnett : stream, we have one, but it can sort of flip 222 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:32,670 Dean Burnett : around a lot. So think of the world around us 223 00:11:32,670 --> 00:11:34,590 Dean Burnett : is like a stage and we have this attention which 224 00:11:34,590 --> 00:11:37,830 Dean Burnett : is spotlight. So we have one spotlight and you can illuminate different 225 00:11:37,830 --> 00:11:40,800 Dean Burnett : parts, it would depend on what's important. And some people 226 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,550 Dean Burnett : can juggle different streams better than others. Some people are 227 00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:46,740 Dean Burnett : much more focused on one thing and like, " I'll do 228 00:11:46,740 --> 00:11:49,650 Dean Burnett : this, done. I'll do the next thing, done. I'll do 229 00:11:49,650 --> 00:11:52,740 Dean Burnett : that next thing, done." I mean, that also requires discipline. It's like this 230 00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:55,170 Dean Burnett : idea that multitasking is some sort of superior. It's just 231 00:11:55,170 --> 00:11:57,840 Dean Burnett : a different way of processing the world. Now again, some 232 00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,459 Dean Burnett : people can do that really well. Some people have more focus 233 00:11:59,820 --> 00:12:01,920 Dean Burnett : on one thing at a time. So that's when it comes 234 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,080 Dean Burnett : to multitasking. You've got three tasks to do at once, 235 00:12:04,620 --> 00:12:07,140 Dean Burnett : you can flip between them without losing your thread essentially. 236 00:12:07,140 --> 00:12:09,780 Dean Burnett : And that's a good skill to have, but I know it 237 00:12:09,780 --> 00:12:12,000 Dean Burnett : can be make you more productive, but it also mean three 238 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:13,950 Dean Burnett : things get done not as well as they would be 239 00:12:13,950 --> 00:12:17,309 Dean Burnett : if you were doing it specifically. So yeah, multitasking is 240 00:12:17,309 --> 00:12:19,290 Dean Burnett : a useful skill, it's not always the correct option. 241 00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:21,540 Krutika Adatia: I hear you. So I guess coming back to my 242 00:12:21,540 --> 00:12:23,670 Krutika Adatia: example when I was driving, I couldn't do it because 243 00:12:23,670 --> 00:12:25,500 Krutika Adatia: it was new territory for me, so I had to 244 00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:29,100 Krutika Adatia: focus. So I guess for our students, when we think 245 00:12:29,100 --> 00:12:34,320 Krutika Adatia: about prioritization, our students are often working, they might have 246 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,040 Krutika Adatia: kids, they might also be studying at the same time. 247 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,360 Krutika Adatia: How important is prioritization and how does that feed into 248 00:12:42,420 --> 00:12:43,740 Krutika Adatia: productivity as well? 249 00:12:44,490 --> 00:12:48,630 Dean Burnett : Yeah, prioritization of task is obviously going to be a big part of 250 00:12:48,630 --> 00:12:50,729 Dean Burnett : productivity because if something needs to be done in the 251 00:12:50,730 --> 00:12:54,059 Dean Burnett : next hour as opposed to something which needs to be done next week, obviously 252 00:12:54,059 --> 00:12:58,740 Dean Burnett : prioritize the imminent deadline. What's more important right now? How much 253 00:12:58,740 --> 00:13:00,960 Dean Burnett : work does it take? What is the rewards it'll offer 254 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,030 Dean Burnett : me if I do do it right now? And those 255 00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:05,460 Dean Burnett : will obviously factor into your productivity. You think, okay, so 256 00:13:05,460 --> 00:13:07,380 Dean Burnett : what am I going to focus on at this point 257 00:13:07,380 --> 00:13:10,829 Dean Burnett : in time? And your brain that sometimes gets things wrong. 258 00:13:10,980 --> 00:13:13,679 Dean Burnett : Okay, we have procrastination for that. 259 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,290 Krutika Adatia: Sounds like the sort of thing our students would do as well, 260 00:13:16,290 --> 00:13:19,260 Krutika Adatia: focusing on a task that is not related to their studying 261 00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:19,410 Krutika Adatia: at all. 262 00:13:19,410 --> 00:13:21,150 Dean Burnett : It's like my office, when I got deadline, it's the 263 00:13:21,150 --> 00:13:25,380 Dean Burnett : cleanest you'll ever see it. It's just like spotless. I'm demolding these walls 264 00:13:25,380 --> 00:13:26,550 Dean Burnett : for a while. That's not even a thing, but I'm 265 00:13:26,550 --> 00:13:27,089 Dean Burnett : going to do it now. 266 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:27,780 Krutika Adatia: Let's do it now. 267 00:13:27,781 --> 00:13:30,599 Dean Burnett : Exactly. It must be due then, obviously. It's one of 268 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,240 Dean Burnett : those things that your brain's going, " Oh, that's a demanding 269 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,940 Dean Burnett : thing which I don't want to do. If I do this, 270 00:13:36,030 --> 00:13:39,720 Dean Burnett : I'll have immediate results and that'll be quite satisfying." I'm 271 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,240 Dean Burnett : going to hoover, that way that'll be finished. That's a 272 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:45,599 Dean Burnett : task, that's clear parameters is like an endpoint. So could 273 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:47,280 Dean Burnett : have done that. Now I feel like I've done something. 274 00:13:47,670 --> 00:13:50,280 Dean Burnett : I've been productive, which you have, but you would've been 275 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,800 Dean Burnett : more productive perhaps in the long term by revising. 276 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,240 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. Just thinking whilst you were talking there, would a 277 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,170 Krutika Adatia: solution for our students there, you mentioned that we like 278 00:14:01,170 --> 00:14:04,140 Krutika Adatia: kind of getting a task completed. So I'm thinking back 279 00:14:04,140 --> 00:14:06,300 Krutika Adatia: to when I was a student and making a task 280 00:14:06,330 --> 00:14:09,030 Krutika Adatia: list of topics that I wanted to cover during the 281 00:14:09,030 --> 00:14:12,000 Krutika Adatia: hour that I was studying. So would you say it 282 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,880 Krutika Adatia: would be helpful if a student made themselves almost like 283 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:16,679 Krutika Adatia: a task list and was like, " Okay, I'm going to 284 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,510 Krutika Adatia: complete that in an hour, I can then tick it 285 00:14:18,510 --> 00:14:20,970 Krutika Adatia: off." And there's some kind of something happening in your 286 00:14:20,970 --> 00:14:22,950 Krutika Adatia: brain that goes, " Oh yeah, I've completed that." Is there 287 00:14:22,950 --> 00:14:24,990 Krutika Adatia: benefit to that then to try and be productive? 288 00:14:25,710 --> 00:14:28,200 Dean Burnett : Yeah, that'd be a helpful approach because you give yourself 289 00:14:28,260 --> 00:14:30,930 Dean Burnett : some chunks of things you can say, " I have done 290 00:14:30,930 --> 00:14:32,640 Dean Burnett : that." Be able to say, " I have done that." I can 291 00:14:32,910 --> 00:14:36,030 Dean Burnett : see I set myself an assignment, a goal, a sort 292 00:14:36,030 --> 00:14:38,640 Dean Burnett : of deadline, a limit, whatever it was, a target and 293 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,250 Dean Burnett : I reached it. Therefore, your brain goes, " Okay, good. I could 294 00:14:41,250 --> 00:14:43,710 Dean Burnett : tick that box." And I find the same with my 295 00:14:43,710 --> 00:14:46,020 Dean Burnett : writing, because obviously when you write a book, obviously it's 296 00:14:46,020 --> 00:14:49,620 Dean Burnett : a long process. I started as a blogger. So you 297 00:14:49,620 --> 00:14:52,500 Dean Burnett : start off then like, okay, there's a start, there's the 298 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:55,050 Dean Burnett : end, I've done it. Therefore, that was how my brain 299 00:14:55,050 --> 00:14:58,920 Dean Burnett : sort of became adapted to writing things. Then I start 300 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:00,990 Dean Burnett : setting myself targets. Okay, so rather than saying, " I must 301 00:15:00,990 --> 00:15:05,280 Dean Burnett : do writing today. I must write for three hours." " Today, 302 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:11,550 Dean Burnett : I need to get 2,000 words." I aim for 2,000 words. Now I've done 2, 000 words, anything after this is a bonus. 303 00:15:11,610 --> 00:15:14,010 Krutika Adatia: Yeah, that's a really good hat for our students. I 304 00:15:14,010 --> 00:15:17,220 Krutika Adatia: mean, coming onto just how our students might be feeling, 305 00:15:17,220 --> 00:15:22,260 Krutika Adatia: often, it can be quite stressful studying for these exams. 306 00:15:22,260 --> 00:15:22,619 Dean Burnett : Totally, yeah. 307 00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:25,260 Krutika Adatia: Could you talk to us a little bit about how 308 00:15:25,260 --> 00:15:29,700 Krutika Adatia: stress and productivity are kind of related or maybe not 309 00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:32,850 Krutika Adatia: related or what the impact of stress is on productivity? 310 00:15:33,510 --> 00:15:36,390 Dean Burnett : Yeah. Stress is one of those things which it's talked 311 00:15:36,390 --> 00:15:38,880 Dean Burnett : about so much and it's a reference so often that 312 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,220 Dean Burnett : we think we don't really appreciate how significant it is. 313 00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:44,940 Dean Burnett : Modern life is stressful, no one's arguing that. And you can 314 00:15:44,940 --> 00:15:49,320 Dean Burnett : sort of even see that in the psychiatric diagnostic criteria 315 00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:53,040 Dean Burnett : in that for a diagnosis of depression, for example, the 316 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,300 Dean Burnett : classic sign is flat, unchanging mood, not necessarily sad, but 317 00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:01,680 Dean Burnett : it's like maybe no emotion whatsoever for two weeks consistently. 318 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,770 Dean Burnett : You get angry, upset, or your mood changes. When it 319 00:16:04,770 --> 00:16:07,650 Dean Burnett : doesn't change, then there's a problem. For a generalized anxiety 320 00:16:07,650 --> 00:16:10,980 Dean Burnett : disorder, you need to have constant anxiety for six months. 321 00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:13,530 Dean Burnett : So when it comes to like half a year, okay, 322 00:16:13,830 --> 00:16:16,560 Dean Burnett : that's a bit excessive. Even if you've got something coming 323 00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:18,300 Dean Burnett : up like an exam, you'd be stressed for two or 324 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:21,060 Dean Burnett : three months at a time, that's normal, you would be. 325 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,220 Dean Burnett : So because this big thing's going to happen and you 326 00:16:23,220 --> 00:16:26,220 Dean Burnett : know it's coming. So yeah, that can impact on productivity. 327 00:16:26,220 --> 00:16:29,070 Dean Burnett : It can sort of distract you from other things if you're 328 00:16:29,070 --> 00:16:32,370 Dean Burnett : constantly dwelling on that. But stress is like the first 329 00:16:32,370 --> 00:16:35,430 Dean Burnett : stage of the fight or flight response or the fear 330 00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:37,890 Dean Burnett : response, as we call it sometimes. That's sort of that 331 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,229 Dean Burnett : panic response you get. So stress is like the very 332 00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:42,960 Dean Burnett : first stage of that. Your brain and body is getting 333 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,600 Dean Burnett : sort of warmed up to deal with something. Chronic stress 334 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:47,970 Dean Burnett : is something the human brain hasn't really evolved to deal 335 00:16:47,970 --> 00:16:51,570 Dean Burnett : with because when you think of a primitive creature like 336 00:16:51,570 --> 00:16:55,200 Dean Burnett : we were when we evolved, something which caused stress or the fight or 337 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,239 Dean Burnett : flight response was something very dangerous right in front of 338 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,020 Dean Burnett : you. There's a tiger, fight or flight. You run away 339 00:17:01,110 --> 00:17:03,360 Dean Burnett : or you fight it, you win or you die. Either 340 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,540 Dean Burnett : way, the stress is gone, but constant chronic stress, something 341 00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:08,909 Dean Burnett : that's a consequence of our intellect and stuff. So we 342 00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:12,690 Dean Burnett : can be easily sort of distracted by stress. But when 343 00:17:12,690 --> 00:17:16,680 Dean Burnett : we are stressed because it's triggered that sort of fear 344 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,439 Dean Burnett : response or negative response, it tends to affect how your 345 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,570 Dean Burnett : brain works. So you tend to focus more on the 346 00:17:21,570 --> 00:17:25,380 Dean Burnett : negative stuff that's stressing you out, which is not good 347 00:17:25,530 --> 00:17:28,650 Dean Burnett : for mood and mental wellbeing, but it can be, I'm 348 00:17:28,650 --> 00:17:30,540 Dean Burnett : much allowed to say it can be sort of helpful with 349 00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:33,930 Dean Burnett : productivity because it's something we have discovered called the Yerkes- 350 00:17:33,930 --> 00:17:37,199 Dean Burnett : Dodson curve or the Yerkes- Dodson rule. The more stressed 351 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,260 Dean Burnett : you are about something, the more productive you tend to 352 00:17:40,260 --> 00:17:44,310 Dean Burnett : be because back to the talking about prioritization, as it 353 00:17:44,310 --> 00:17:47,970 Dean Burnett : becomes more imminent, stress goes up, you go, " Okay, well, I can't 354 00:17:47,970 --> 00:17:49,080 Dean Burnett : put this off anymore. I've got to do it now." 355 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,750 Dean Burnett : And because your brain's thinking this is the important thing 356 00:17:51,750 --> 00:17:53,970 Dean Burnett : which is causing me stress, I'm going to do it, 357 00:17:53,970 --> 00:17:55,830 Dean Burnett : I'm going to deal with it. A lot of studies 358 00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:59,399 Dean Burnett : show that a certain amount of stress makes you more 359 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,730 Dean Burnett : productive, makes people more better performers at tasks and stuff. 360 00:18:02,970 --> 00:18:06,420 Dean Burnett : So people find deadlines really helpful, but up to a 361 00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:09,300 Dean Burnett : certain point, because up to a point when stress becomes 362 00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,419 Dean Burnett : too much, deadline's too imminent, then you start panicking and it's 363 00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:14,580 Dean Burnett : sort of like, oh, you start getting all the anxiety 364 00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:16,950 Dean Burnett : and all the distractions of what will happen if I 365 00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:19,919 Dean Burnett : don't do this. And then your productivity goes down because 366 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,520 Dean Burnett : your brain's overwhelmed by the stress and it can't function 367 00:18:23,609 --> 00:18:25,920 Dean Burnett : in a sort of productive, useful way. So there's a 368 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,550 Dean Burnett : very sort of narrow window of just stressed enough to 369 00:18:29,550 --> 00:18:32,820 Dean Burnett : be useful, but not too stressed that you can't actually 370 00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:35,940 Dean Burnett : function. That'll differ from person to person. How much stress 371 00:18:35,940 --> 00:18:38,609 Dean Burnett : works for you will not be the same as someone else. Some people 372 00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:41,250 Dean Burnett : do things months in advance because they can't even face 373 00:18:41,250 --> 00:18:44,670 Dean Burnett : the idea of a deadline whereas some people are going, " I'll 374 00:18:44,670 --> 00:18:47,070 Dean Burnett : do it. I'll just pull all nighter, I'll be fine." 375 00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:48,900 Dean Burnett : Because I know plenty of people who did that in university. 376 00:18:49,410 --> 00:18:49,411 Krutika Adatia: The cramming approach isn't it? 377 00:18:49,411 --> 00:18:51,631 Dean Burnett : The cramming, exactly. That's what that is. Yeah. 378 00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:56,609 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. So many interesting points you've said there. Are there any 379 00:18:56,730 --> 00:19:00,119 Krutika Adatia: strategies or approaches that we could be thinking about just 380 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,889 Krutika Adatia: to make sure we don't tip into that territory, I suppose? 381 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,730 Dean Burnett : Yeah, I think it is a tightrope to be able 382 00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:11,760 Dean Burnett : to sort of do enough to avoid the stress or avoid the 383 00:19:12,330 --> 00:19:15,240 Dean Burnett : negative consequences that the stress is motivating you to work 384 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,179 Dean Burnett : towards, whilst also not taking too much on to overwhelm 385 00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:22,169 Dean Burnett : yourself. I think like we said earlier on, if you 386 00:19:22,170 --> 00:19:27,750 Dean Burnett : can quantify your responsibilities or your obligations into sort of 387 00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:30,750 Dean Burnett : more manageable chunks, that tends to help. So I've got 388 00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:36,659 Dean Burnett : to do 30 different things before this meeting, that's a lot. 389 00:19:37,140 --> 00:19:39,869 Dean Burnett : Okay, let's put these in order of importance. " Can I 390 00:19:39,869 --> 00:19:42,930 Dean Burnett : afford to lose or merge any of these together?" If 391 00:19:42,930 --> 00:19:45,959 Dean Burnett : you can put some sort of metric in place so 392 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:47,730 Dean Burnett : you can say, " Okay, what do I need to do? 393 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,359 Dean Burnett : How do I quantify it?" And obviously something, obviously I imagine 394 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:55,169 Dean Burnett : accountants quite adept at, because obviously quantifying things and counting 395 00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:58,230 Dean Burnett : things is a whole part of the process and that just takes 396 00:19:58,230 --> 00:20:01,439 Dean Burnett : a lot of the uncertainty out of it and your 397 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,658 Dean Burnett : brain becomes less stressed as a result and more productive. 398 00:20:04,138 --> 00:20:09,240 Krutika Adatia: What about students that they come into the accountancy profession 399 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,659 Krutika Adatia: and there is this whole myth about accountancy being heavy 400 00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:15,060 Krutika Adatia: on numbers and yeah, there are numbers, but some people 401 00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:20,940 Krutika Adatia: experience anxiety around the maths that might be involved. Have 402 00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:25,290 Krutika Adatia: you got any sort of thoughts around that and managing that? 403 00:20:25,710 --> 00:20:28,619 Dean Burnett : Yeah, there is something called maths anxiety. It's a well known 404 00:20:28,619 --> 00:20:32,850 Dean Burnett : phenomenon. This country we have a sort of low- key, 405 00:20:33,690 --> 00:20:36,300 Dean Burnett : almost like pride in not being good at maths. People say, " 406 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:38,520 Dean Burnett : Oh, I was never good at maths, I wasn't." Yeah, 407 00:20:38,670 --> 00:20:41,340 Dean Burnett : don't boast about that. I wouldn't say that's an achievement, 408 00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:44,400 Dean Burnett : you just didn't learn it. All right, maybe it was 409 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,700 Dean Burnett : hard. I always struggled with maths, but me personally, I 410 00:20:47,700 --> 00:20:49,500 Dean Burnett : was always very good at mechanics. I did physics A 411 00:20:49,500 --> 00:20:52,530 Dean Burnett : level, but didn't do maths. But because of mechanics, because 412 00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:55,350 Dean Burnett : again, to me, that was more tangible. I was always 413 00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:58,350 Dean Burnett : struggling with statistics, which is like just numbers dancing around 414 00:20:58,350 --> 00:21:00,240 Dean Burnett : in my head, whereas like mechanics, " Oh, so if you 415 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:03,660 Dean Burnett : put a force there." And then that made more sense 416 00:21:03,660 --> 00:21:07,050 Dean Burnett : to me because it had a sort of tangible impact, but 417 00:21:07,050 --> 00:21:08,490 Dean Burnett : that's a big part of why it causes a lot 418 00:21:08,490 --> 00:21:11,369 Dean Burnett : of anxiety in a lot of people. But in Western 419 00:21:11,369 --> 00:21:14,400 Dean Burnett : cultures, we have this low- key anxiety and a big 420 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,940 Dean Burnett : part is because maths is very abstract. It's basically numbers, 421 00:21:18,990 --> 00:21:22,530 Dean Burnett : you have to manipulate numerical information in your head, which 422 00:21:22,530 --> 00:21:24,990 Dean Burnett : is a recently acquired skill for the human brain in 423 00:21:24,990 --> 00:21:28,830 Dean Burnett : evolutionary terms. We have this sort of working memory where 424 00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:32,820 Dean Burnett : we can hold abstract information and manipulate it, it's thinking 425 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,600 Dean Burnett : essentially and that is an impressive ability, but it's something 426 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,330 Dean Burnett : the human brain only evolved ability to do somewhere between 427 00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:42,540 Dean Burnett : a million and a half million years ago. And most 428 00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:44,190 Dean Burnett : of the other stuff our brain does has some sort 429 00:21:44,190 --> 00:21:49,020 Dean Burnett : of tangible or emotional or perceptual component. So we enjoy 430 00:21:49,020 --> 00:21:52,109 Dean Burnett : reading because of fancy stories that cause emotional reactions. We 431 00:21:52,109 --> 00:21:54,659 Dean Burnett : like seeing things and tasting things and smelling things because 432 00:21:55,050 --> 00:21:57,450 Dean Burnett : those parts of our brain are active like language because 433 00:21:57,450 --> 00:22:00,030 Dean Burnett : we like to communicate. We have all that going on. 434 00:22:00,030 --> 00:22:07,109 Dean Burnett : Whereas mathematical thinking like calculations, it's an entirely conscious part 435 00:22:07,109 --> 00:22:09,660 Dean Burnett : of your brain, which a lot of things aren't. And 436 00:22:09,660 --> 00:22:12,030 Dean Burnett : every other sort of discipline or subject or any sort 437 00:22:12,030 --> 00:22:15,119 Dean Burnett : of task involves other parts of your brain and it 438 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,420 Dean Burnett : does require a lot of mental processing. It does require 439 00:22:18,420 --> 00:22:23,700 Dean Burnett : cognitive effort and that can be daunting. Obviously it doesn't strike 440 00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:27,330 Dean Burnett : any emotional resonance or therefore your brain doesn't like it. It 441 00:22:27,869 --> 00:22:31,320 Dean Burnett : doesn't feel like there's any sort of reward for it sometimes. And 442 00:22:31,410 --> 00:22:33,600 Dean Burnett : the thought of doing that makes people anxious as in 443 00:22:33,869 --> 00:22:36,660 Dean Burnett : subconscious thinking, " I've got to go and do this thing which has no 444 00:22:37,380 --> 00:22:39,570 Dean Burnett : resonance in any other part of my brain and that's 445 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:40,500 Dean Burnett : slightly stressful." 446 00:22:40,650 --> 00:22:44,639 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. And I'm sure that'll be really comforting to students 447 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,580 Krutika Adatia: that are listening to this thinking, " Oh yeah, the maths element 448 00:22:47,580 --> 00:22:50,730 Krutika Adatia: is what I struggle with." I mean, just related to 449 00:22:50,730 --> 00:22:54,570 Krutika Adatia: this, is there any way we could hack our brains to give 450 00:22:54,570 --> 00:22:57,600 Krutika Adatia: ourselves some sort of reward for the abstract mats? I 451 00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,002 Krutika Adatia: don't know if you have any advice on that (inaudible) . 452 00:22:59,129 --> 00:23:02,790 Dean Burnett : Well, there's obviously very direct approach is like, do your 453 00:23:02,790 --> 00:23:06,720 Dean Burnett : calculation and have a sweet like, " That's good." That's basic conditioning, 454 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,830 Dean Burnett : but your brain also likes proficiency and competence, feeling I'm 455 00:23:10,830 --> 00:23:13,830 Dean Burnett : competent at something, that could be rewarding. So people like 456 00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:16,109 Dean Burnett : to be able to say, " I did that. I achieved 457 00:23:16,109 --> 00:23:19,590 Dean Burnett : that." That's something like the most rewarding careers tend to 458 00:23:19,590 --> 00:23:21,959 Dean Burnett : be those where people have a tangible result of what they're 459 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:25,080 Dean Burnett : doing, which you can have with accountancy. Like, "Oh, I did 460 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,330 Dean Burnett : all that. Look at that. That's something I did." And your brain goes, " 461 00:23:27,330 --> 00:23:28,649 Dean Burnett : Good. Yeah, cool. I'm good at that." 462 00:23:28,650 --> 00:23:30,690 Krutika Adatia: I now understand why I used to love it when 463 00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:33,600 Krutika Adatia: my balance sheet used to balance, because I'm like, " Yes, 464 00:23:33,810 --> 00:23:34,261 Krutika Adatia: the numbers match." 465 00:23:34,261 --> 00:23:37,590 Dean Burnett : " Yeah, I did that." It sounds challenging. It's not 466 00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:40,740 Dean Burnett : like... Some of the more rewarding careers, people are like doctors 467 00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:44,159 Dean Burnett : and teachers, very stressful, very demanding, often not paid well 468 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,560 Dean Burnett : enough, but you can see at the end of the day, " 469 00:23:46,890 --> 00:23:49,290 Dean Burnett : I did this work, look at the results. There, that patient 470 00:23:49,290 --> 00:23:52,170 Dean Burnett : is healed. This child has learned." Being able to see 471 00:23:52,590 --> 00:23:55,020 Dean Burnett : the tangible results of your efforts is a big part 472 00:23:55,020 --> 00:23:58,260 Dean Burnett : of satisfaction. And no, you can have that with accountancy 473 00:23:58,260 --> 00:24:00,720 Dean Burnett : because you can see the numbers dancing right in front 474 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,780 Dean Burnett : of you and you can see what you've done, whereas other places don't 475 00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:04,530 Dean Burnett : necessarily offer that. 476 00:24:04,770 --> 00:24:07,830 Krutika Adatia: Just in the interest of time, a final question around 477 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,280 Krutika Adatia: what we spoke about at the very beginning, that kind of 478 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,810 Krutika Adatia: toxic productivity culture that can be quite rife, especially if you're 479 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,109 Krutika Adatia: consuming a lot of content like I am from various 480 00:24:19,109 --> 00:24:22,350 Krutika Adatia: successful CEOs. I mean, how can we spot the signs 481 00:24:22,350 --> 00:24:24,210 Krutika Adatia: of unhealthy productivity? 482 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,869 Dean Burnett : There's lots of indications of this. It dovetails into the 483 00:24:27,869 --> 00:24:32,159 Dean Burnett : modern phenomenon like toxic positivity in that the idea that you have to be happy 484 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,880 Dean Burnett : all the time, otherwise something's gone wrong. That isn't how 485 00:24:36,090 --> 00:24:39,300 Dean Burnett : your brain works. We can't be happy all the time. 486 00:24:39,660 --> 00:24:42,990 Dean Burnett : Happiness is a reward state, satisfaction for having done something 487 00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:45,869 Dean Burnett : correctly and properly. So if happy all the time, it 488 00:24:45,869 --> 00:24:49,140 Dean Burnett : isn't sustainable. The idea that you have to be working 489 00:24:49,140 --> 00:24:51,450 Dean Burnett : all the time, be productive all the time and anytime 490 00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:55,409 Dean Burnett : which isn't productive is wasted, is a very unhealthy one. The 491 00:24:55,410 --> 00:24:59,340 Dean Burnett : whole grind, grind culture, it's a status thing. Some people 492 00:24:59,670 --> 00:25:02,760 Dean Burnett : seem to take pride in the fact that, " I'm working 493 00:25:02,790 --> 00:25:04,980 Dean Burnett : all the time. I'm advancing, you're not, therefore I'm better 494 00:25:04,980 --> 00:25:08,669 Dean Burnett : than you." Well, there's a lot of danger to that that can 495 00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:11,580 Dean Burnett : be very, very unhealthy and unhelpful. I'd say there's a 496 00:25:11,850 --> 00:25:13,919 Dean Burnett : big online culture, the idea that you have to be 497 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:18,629 Dean Burnett : a successful as possible, otherwise you're not worthwhile. That's deeply 498 00:25:18,630 --> 00:25:21,899 Dean Burnett : unhelpful as well. And yeah, it comes from a sort of, 499 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:25,920 Dean Burnett : like I said, I think a lot of it's reverse engineered because people, 500 00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:29,070 Dean Burnett : the human brain's very, very sensitive to status, social status. 501 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:32,040 Dean Burnett : Am I better than others? Am I valued? Am I 502 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,590 Dean Burnett : looked up to? Am I admired? We all want that 503 00:25:34,770 --> 00:25:39,119 Dean Burnett : at some sort of fundamental level. And in modern culture, 504 00:25:39,510 --> 00:25:43,649 Dean Burnett : that's heavily tied to wealth and sort of prominence. Or 505 00:25:43,650 --> 00:25:46,080 Dean Burnett : like online now you have the influencers and people like that who 506 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,720 Dean Burnett : have massive follow accounts. The brain sort of processes that 507 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,170 Dean Burnett : kind of similar to wealth as in a quantifiable metric 508 00:25:52,170 --> 00:25:55,320 Dean Burnett : of success. The idea that as long as you work hard 509 00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:58,050 Dean Burnett : and constantly keep you productive, you will be rich and 510 00:25:58,050 --> 00:26:02,490 Dean Burnett : successful. You'll probably be fine, but you won't be this 511 00:26:02,490 --> 00:26:06,060 Dean Burnett : prominent wealthy billionaire because that involves a lot of luck 512 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:08,940 Dean Burnett : and always does and there's no way to circumvent that. 513 00:26:08,940 --> 00:26:13,560 Dean Burnett : But we can't control that, but that's not a satisfying 514 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:16,649 Dean Burnett : narrative and therefore the whole idea of constant productivity is 515 00:26:16,650 --> 00:26:21,090 Dean Burnett : what it takes is popular but unrealistic. And I think 516 00:26:21,090 --> 00:26:23,010 Dean Burnett : people get caught up in that rather too readily. 517 00:26:23,820 --> 00:26:26,220 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. Really well said. I mean, you've shared so many 518 00:26:26,609 --> 00:26:29,879 Krutika Adatia: great tips and bits of advice throughout this entire conversation, 519 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,180 Krutika Adatia: but if you had to summarize it as three tips 520 00:26:33,180 --> 00:26:35,369 Krutika Adatia: for improving productivity, what would you say? 521 00:26:36,570 --> 00:26:39,300 Dean Burnett : Get enough sleep, doesn't matter when. Be aware of your 522 00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:44,940 Dean Burnett : productive time, don't force it. And quantify your demands, your requirements, so in ways 523 00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:48,000 Dean Burnett : your brains can understand and manage rather than leave some 524 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,510 Dean Burnett : sort of big, nebulous, scary thing which is off- putting. 525 00:26:52,290 --> 00:26:54,600 Krutika Adatia: Thank you so much, Dean. I've learned so much from 526 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:55,649 Krutika Adatia: this conversation. 527 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:56,520 Dean Burnett : No problem. Thank you. 528 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,090 Krutika Adatia: That's it from this episode of On Your Marks. Thank 529 00:27:00,090 --> 00:27:03,179 Krutika Adatia: you, Dean, for chatting with me today. For more information 530 00:27:03,180 --> 00:27:09,030 Krutika Adatia: about ACCA exams, you can go to www. accaglobal.com/ exams. 531 00:27:09,330 --> 00:27:11,670 Krutika Adatia: And to watch the video version of this podcast, check 532 00:27:11,670 --> 00:27:14,129 Krutika Adatia: out the link in the show notes. See you next 533 00:27:14,130 --> 00:27:17,970 Krutika Adatia: time. I'm Krutika Adatia and this has been On Your Marks. 534 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,820 Krutika Adatia: On Your Marks is a Fresh Air Production for ACCA. 535 00:27:21,150 --> 00:27:25,350 Krutika Adatia: Its producers are Eva Higginbotham, Annie Day and Finlay Macrae. 536 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,420 Krutika Adatia: It's edited by Helen Quigley.