WEBVTT - How can we speed up the house buying process? 0:00:03.029 --> 0:00:06.540 Welcome to Mortgage Insider from Barclays, the one- stop shop 0:00:06.540 --> 0:00:09.360 for mortgage brokers and all you need to know about 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:13.140 the property industry. I'm Phil Spencer, property expert and TV 0:00:13.140 --> 0:00:15.960 presenter. And today, we're going to be talking about a 0:00:15.960 --> 0:00:19.110 hotly debated topic, and one that's very close to my 0:00:19.110 --> 0:00:22.950 own heart, the home buying process. Believe it or not, 0:00:23.460 --> 0:00:27.510 the UK has the slowest timeline for moving house amongst 0:00:27.540 --> 0:00:32.130 12 of the world's most developed countries, around one in 0:00:32.130 --> 0:00:36.540 three deals fall through. Anyway, I am joined today by 0:00:36.540 --> 0:00:39.210 two experts and it'll be interesting to see if they 0:00:39.210 --> 0:00:43.440 have similar perspectives on the topic. Justin Young, Justin is 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.860 the CEO of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors or 0:00:46.860 --> 0:00:51.810 RICS, and Clare Beardmore. Clare is Director of L& G Mortgage Club. 0:00:51.870 --> 0:00:54.270 Welcome to you both. Great to have you on. To 0:00:54.270 --> 0:00:56.490 kick off with it, let's just start, where are we at 0:00:56.490 --> 0:00:59.310 the moment in terms of the house buying process? How 0:00:59.310 --> 0:01:02.160 long does it take on average to buy a house 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.979 at the moment? Justin, I guess that's one for you. 0:01:05.130 --> 0:01:09.090 Sure. So it's a complex process that's taking too long, 0:01:09.090 --> 0:01:11.370 that's for sure. And it currently is taking about on 0:01:11.370 --> 0:01:14.400 average, 120 days. And so, when we think that's the 0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.100 average, there's a lot of stuff that's taking longer than 0:01:17.100 --> 0:01:21.209 that and that in itself is a massive increase. Since 0:01:21.270 --> 0:01:27.330 2007, that has gone up by 60%. So something is 0:01:27.330 --> 0:01:30.360 really getting in the way of this and it really is the 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:34.380 detail of the process and when things happen sequentially and 0:01:34.380 --> 0:01:35.700 the fact that it takes so long. 0:01:36.090 --> 0:01:40.380 It's a shame, isn't it? Because in today's world, the 0:01:40.380 --> 0:01:43.980 information is all available so much quicker, but we're not 0:01:43.980 --> 0:01:47.610 getting it through the process. So I've read recently that 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:52.260 one and a half billion pounds a year is spent or 0:01:52.260 --> 0:01:57.960 lost in aborted transactions. And that affects 500, 000 people, one in 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.440 three deals falling through. So we have got some real 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:02.431 obstacles, haven't we? 0:02:02.431 --> 0:02:04.230 We certainly have. And as you say, there is a 0:02:04.230 --> 0:02:07.470 lot of information available. It is there. It is actually 0:02:07.470 --> 0:02:10.860 getting hold of that information and I'm sure we'll come 0:02:10.860 --> 0:02:13.980 on to talk about methods by which we could digitize 0:02:13.980 --> 0:02:17.700 the entire process and really make it happen a lot 0:02:17.700 --> 0:02:20.790 more smoothly. But also as I was mentioning this piece 0:02:20.790 --> 0:02:24.360 about sequencing, if we can get things started earlier in 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:28.410 the process, then actually we can then run things in 0:02:28.410 --> 0:02:30.810 parallel, so that it doesn't take so long. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:33.959 Wouldn't that be a nice thing for us all? Clare, 0:02:34.590 --> 0:02:40.740 brokers, it's disappointing their clients. It's disappointing themselves, if they've 0:02:40.740 --> 0:02:43.380 got a re- broker, the whole mortgage again. And there 0:02:44.669 --> 0:02:46.650 are probably stories of people having to do that several 0:02:46.650 --> 0:02:49.320 times. So it's increasing their workload, it's affecting their bottom 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:51.720 line. It's bad news for them as well. 0:02:51.870 --> 0:02:55.200 Yeah, absolutely. And if you think often, the broker is the 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:58.470 person that deals directly with that customer, does all that hand- 0:02:58.470 --> 0:03:01.650 holding, is their support throughout the process. Not just to 0:03:01.650 --> 0:03:05.970 advise on a product or a rate, it's absolutely that 0:03:05.970 --> 0:03:11.160 handholding. So I've heard one really extreme example recently where 0:03:11.700 --> 0:03:15.330 a lady got a customer that they dealt with for 0:03:15.330 --> 0:03:18.030 a number of years, was actually on property number eight. 0:03:18.090 --> 0:03:21.660 So many properties had fallen through. Now I know that's 0:03:21.660 --> 0:03:24.720 quite extreme, but can you imagine the amount of wasted 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:28.680 resource, the amount of wasted time, money, et cetera, to 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:31.889 get them to still looking for a property on, fingers 0:03:31.889 --> 0:03:36.300 crossed, on number nine. So yes, plenty of wasted time 0:03:36.300 --> 0:03:37.350 and resource there. 0:03:37.500 --> 0:03:40.320 So painful. And yet there are other parts of the 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:44.310 world and even other parts of the United Kingdom, and 0:03:44.310 --> 0:03:47.850 I'm thinking Scotland, that have a different system. Whether that's 0:03:47.850 --> 0:03:50.640 more efficient or quicker, I'm not entirely sure, but it 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:52.290 is there, isn't it? Should we just talk a little 0:03:52.290 --> 0:03:54.930 bit about the Scottish market and how that works Justin? 0:03:54.990 --> 0:03:58.170 Yeah, very happy to do that. And it is absolutely 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:03.600 quicker in Scotland. It's down to about 90 days- ish, 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:09.300 so a much shorter process. Also the failure rate is 0:04:09.300 --> 0:04:12.690 much smaller as well, it's only about 11%. Whereas you 0:04:12.690 --> 0:04:14.940 compare that to the figure that you were saying Phil 0:04:14.940 --> 0:04:17.850 at a third, it's very, very stark different. So it 0:04:17.850 --> 0:04:21.479 does have a real impact. And the secret to what's 0:04:21.480 --> 0:04:25.589 happened in Scotland, is that they create the home report 0:04:25.620 --> 0:04:28.620 as it's called, and that is all created before the 0:04:28.620 --> 0:04:32.070 property is actually put on the market. So in that, 0:04:32.339 --> 0:04:34.589 it'll be the information that you'd want to have about 0:04:34.589 --> 0:04:38.370 that particular property. It might be the EPC ratings, it 0:04:38.370 --> 0:04:44.490 might be information around the property's condition, even evaluation of 0:04:44.490 --> 0:04:47.610 the property. And the important thing about doing the condition 0:04:47.610 --> 0:04:50.820 and the valuation piece is that it's done by a 0:04:50.820 --> 0:04:55.109 chartered surveyor. So a qualified professional who is able then 0:04:55.110 --> 0:04:58.620 to give you very clear indication of what you would 0:04:58.620 --> 0:05:00.779 need to do to the property if there were certain 0:05:00.779 --> 0:05:04.469 issues with it. Because certainly in England, we see of 0:05:04.470 --> 0:05:08.040 those failure rates that you were talking about, Phil, where 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:11.400 the transactions don't go ahead, a third of those are 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:13.860 to do with what is found in the survey. And 0:05:13.860 --> 0:05:17.130 so, if that's happening later on in the process, it's 0:05:17.130 --> 0:05:18.839 all too late by then, which is where you get 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.510 that failure. So Scotland do it very well by having 0:05:21.510 --> 0:05:24.510 this home report which is there before the property goes 0:05:24.510 --> 0:05:25.050 on the market. 0:05:25.410 --> 0:05:29.789 And are lenders prepared to accept a home report that's 0:05:29.790 --> 0:05:32.940 been commissioned by the vendor of the property? 0:05:33.060 --> 0:05:36.330 Certainly from my point of view, probably Clare as much 0:05:36.330 --> 0:05:39.390 for you as well, certainly buyers are very happy to 0:05:39.390 --> 0:05:41.880 see that report because they know it's been done by 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.910 an independent person. So that's why you need this chartered 0:05:44.910 --> 0:05:47.010 surveyor to do that part of the report. 0:05:47.339 --> 0:05:49.740 I was just going to add to that I think 0:05:50.550 --> 0:05:53.520 even if a lender chose to do an independent valuation 0:05:54.029 --> 0:05:56.760 for their own purposes after, I think to get that 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:06.360 property on the market with a professional survey done, it would absolutely bringing 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:08.909 sales through the channel quicker. 0:06:09.180 --> 0:06:12.690 Okay. So arguably, it would take longer to get a 0:06:12.690 --> 0:06:16.589 property onto the market and it would actually cost somebody 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.940 the cost of getting the home report done. But having 0:06:20.940 --> 0:06:23.969 got onto the market, then the buyers would be better 0:06:23.970 --> 0:06:27.210 informed or they take better decisions. That's the theory. 0:06:27.450 --> 0:06:30.990 I would just say that. Yeah, that's absolutely true. So 0:06:31.350 --> 0:06:34.260 what we often find, and this is something that we 0:06:34.260 --> 0:06:37.560 would lose by going into this process, is that a 0:06:37.560 --> 0:06:40.200 number of people will put properties onto the market in 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:42.659 a sort of speculative kind of way, just to see, 0:06:42.690 --> 0:06:45.240 okay, let's put our toe in the water. See will 0:06:45.240 --> 0:06:48.180 this property move at this current point in the market 0:06:48.180 --> 0:06:52.110 time of year, et cetera? So we would lose that, 0:06:52.140 --> 0:06:53.580 which in a way is a bit of a shame 0:06:53.580 --> 0:06:56.520 because that's a good part of the market that keeps 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.820 things moving. But equally, what you do want is this 0:06:59.820 --> 0:07:02.400 fast process once something is on the market. So I 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.680 think on balance, it's better to do all the stuff 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.700 upfront because you need to be serious about selling a 0:07:08.700 --> 0:07:10.110 property if it's going to go on the market. 0:07:10.110 --> 0:07:13.440 Yeah, it's about having better decisions, isn't it, at the end 0:07:13.470 --> 0:07:16.950 of the day? The buyers are more informed and make 0:07:16.950 --> 0:07:18.900 a decision that they're happy to stick with and not 0:07:18.900 --> 0:07:22.230 change their mind two months down the line when everyone's 0:07:22.230 --> 0:07:26.340 spent money and emotion and commitment, and then some other 0:07:26.340 --> 0:07:27.390 information comes to light. 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:31.020 I would totally agree with that, Phil. I think it's flipping the 0:07:31.020 --> 0:07:32.880 process on its head at the moment. And if you 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.000 look from a mortgage perspective, you get the person ready, 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.460 you get the person mortgage ready. So you would've done 0:07:38.460 --> 0:07:40.619 credit checks, you would've done all of that, how would you 0:07:40.620 --> 0:07:43.320 get the property ready? So yes, you could lose some 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:48.119 of those buyers and maybe speculative buyers, but what I 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.390 think you would see is that huge increase around completions. 0:07:51.390 --> 0:07:55.140 You'd see that one in three hopefully decrease, and you 0:07:55.140 --> 0:07:58.320 would see that completion rate I think hopefully fill that 0:07:58.590 --> 0:07:59.940 loss of reactive buyers. 0:08:00.450 --> 0:08:02.640 I think also what you'd see there is this sort of 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:04.261 reduction in duplication of effort as well. 0:08:04.261 --> 0:08:04.261 Absolutely. 0:08:04.261 --> 0:08:11.130 The amount of surveying, resurveying that's done, inspections and so on, and 0:08:11.310 --> 0:08:16.200 searches done time and time again, this is why things 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:18.480 need to get done only once in a much more 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:19.530 consistent process. 0:08:19.830 --> 0:08:22.650 Clare, you make an interesting point there that I'd not 0:08:22.650 --> 0:08:26.670 thought of before. Actually if we're asking vendors to get 0:08:26.670 --> 0:08:30.180 themselves and their properties ready for sale, in actual fact 0:08:30.180 --> 0:08:33.780 as a broker, you're preparing your buyers- 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:34.441 Absolutely. 0:08:34.441 --> 0:08:36.660 ... to go out into the market. And so, there is 0:08:37.530 --> 0:08:38.459 a bit of give and take. 0:08:38.730 --> 0:08:42.000 Yes, definitely. I think a big push in the industry 0:08:42.510 --> 0:08:44.730 that hasn't been looked at in this home buyers and selling 0:08:44.730 --> 0:08:47.309 reform, is that earlier stage in the journey, how do you 0:08:47.309 --> 0:08:50.670 get that person as a mortgage broker, really mortgage ready, 0:08:50.940 --> 0:08:53.100 rather than go out, find the home they love and 0:08:53.100 --> 0:08:55.709 then realize that they can't afford it? How do you get that 0:08:55.710 --> 0:09:00.420 person ready? So credit checks done, affordability done. And I 0:09:00.450 --> 0:09:03.630 think just as importantly is the property, to get property 0:09:03.690 --> 0:09:06.540 ready as well and combine the two and I think 0:09:06.540 --> 0:09:13.380 you'd have a much higher success rate of driving away some of those inefficiencies. 0:09:13.830 --> 0:09:18.240 And that's where we see some of that taking place in other countries where certainly somewhere 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:23.790 like Australia where it's a highly digitized process. And when 0:09:23.790 --> 0:09:27.330 we look at countries like Australia, Estonia, Finland, the thing 0:09:27.330 --> 0:09:30.300 they all have going for them and they're really efficient processes 0:09:30.570 --> 0:09:33.959 is they are digitized. That's absolutely how things happen. So 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.840 it's very quick. But in addition to that, in Australia, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.230 particularly in the auction space, if you do put in 0:09:40.230 --> 0:09:43.140 that bid for the house and you win it, the 0:09:43.140 --> 0:09:46.920 property, that is yours. It's a binding bid. And I 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:51.059 think that's where we could potentially move to that would 0:09:51.570 --> 0:09:56.309 stop the buyer sort of getting cold feet, et cetera. 0:09:57.809 --> 0:10:00.510 As Clare is saying, get the buyers absolutely ready so 0:10:00.510 --> 0:10:02.520 they know what they can afford and how they can 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:05.760 do it, and then have that lined up with the 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:07.679 property preparedness as well. 0:10:07.860 --> 0:10:09.959 I think there's a lot of innovation going on in 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.660 the mortgage market to get people mortgage ready. I think 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.679 lots of innovation and different silos. And mortgage offers can 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.260 be done within 24 hours, so that mortgage offer can 0:10:19.260 --> 0:10:23.010 be ready. And then it hits all of these checks 0:10:23.010 --> 0:10:26.670 coming out that really slow that process down. Is a 0:10:26.670 --> 0:10:29.730 mortgage market perfect? Absolutely not. But I think we have 0:10:29.730 --> 0:10:33.510 used innovation and automation to try and speed up some 0:10:33.510 --> 0:10:37.020 of those processes. Certainty, I think it's a really important 0:10:37.020 --> 0:10:38.100 word in this process. 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:42.329 Justin, you mentioned Australia. I've spent lots of time in 0:10:42.330 --> 0:10:46.530 Australia and I'm interested in that auction system. And it's always 0:10:46.530 --> 0:10:49.140 intrigued me that somebody could stand outside a house and 0:10:49.170 --> 0:10:51.510 they do actually have them on a Saturday morning on 0:10:51.510 --> 0:10:53.460 the street and everybody gathers around. It's a piece of 0:10:53.460 --> 0:10:56.550 theater, it's fantastic to watch. If somebody's putting their hand 0:10:56.550 --> 0:10:57.900 up and their hand up and their hand up and their 0:10:57.900 --> 0:11:00.780 hand up, I don't know where the banks come in 0:11:01.350 --> 0:11:04.740 to sort of ratify what someone's just put their hand 0:11:04.740 --> 0:11:09.270 up and bid. It's a conundrum to me because somebody 0:11:09.270 --> 0:11:11.880 could massively overpay and it's all done. 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.520 And I think that's the joy of the auction system, 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:19.320 isn't it? If someone chooses to overpay for a property 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.880 but they can afford it, well that's slightly on them, isn't it? And I 0:11:24.540 --> 0:11:27.540 think this is where the other piece would come in 0:11:27.540 --> 0:11:30.450 and where I see the success of this process in 0:11:30.450 --> 0:11:34.500 other countries, is that there's elements of regulation and legislation on 0:11:34.500 --> 0:11:37.830 it as well. So this point about the offer being 0:11:37.830 --> 0:11:42.870 binding, you are absolutely in that. If you ratchet up 0:11:42.870 --> 0:11:45.030 that auction price, you've got to go for it. So 0:11:45.030 --> 0:11:49.199 I think that holds people back to what they can afford 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:52.200 because they know they will have to pay out for 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:53.939 that if it goes their way. 0:11:54.210 --> 0:12:00.209 Okay. Let's talk a bit about the reform. I don't 0:12:00.210 --> 0:12:03.959 know what stage it's got to. The consultation stage was 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:06.179 announced back end of last year, I think it was. 0:12:06.179 --> 0:12:09.390 But there's been lots of talk about the upfront material 0:12:09.390 --> 0:12:13.679 information and that sounds exactly along the lines that we're all 0:12:14.340 --> 0:12:17.640 in agreement with. But can we talk where that stage 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:18.840 has got to? Where are we at? 0:12:19.020 --> 0:12:23.130 Yeah. So that process is still going on. We're gathering 0:12:23.130 --> 0:12:27.360 all the feedback across the industry, both from the financial 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.809 perspective, also legal and from the property sphere as well. 0:12:31.230 --> 0:12:36.150 So bringing that information together, it's going to be some 0:12:36.150 --> 0:12:41.250 months of the analysis of that consultation before anything further 0:12:41.250 --> 0:12:46.050 happens. But I think it's been a really interesting consultation 0:12:46.470 --> 0:12:49.950 in that it contains certainly all this piece around upfront 0:12:49.950 --> 0:12:54.780 information and how that would be gathered. But it also 0:12:55.230 --> 0:13:00.569 talks about how we actually get estate agents, property agents 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:05.939 into a space where they can really be delivering their 0:13:05.940 --> 0:13:10.800 best as well. And so, whether that's around light touch 0:13:10.800 --> 0:13:15.150 regulation, primarily through qualifications. So making sure that your high 0:13:15.150 --> 0:13:18.900 street estate agencies actually qualified to do the job they 0:13:18.900 --> 0:13:22.980 know they need to do, then that's all very helpful 0:13:22.980 --> 0:13:28.170 as well, and that's in the consultation. We see this as 0:13:28.170 --> 0:13:32.730 well looking for just to upskill the entire market. And 0:13:32.730 --> 0:13:36.090 this is why also this requirement for chartered surveyors in 0:13:36.090 --> 0:13:40.290 Scotland is also something that I think should be replicated 0:13:40.290 --> 0:13:42.990 in England. Of course, I would say that, wouldn't I, 0:13:42.990 --> 0:13:47.850 in my role at RICS? But we absolutely need the 0:13:47.850 --> 0:13:51.270 consumer, the buyers and also the sellers to be really 0:13:51.270 --> 0:13:54.600 comfortable that the people who are advising them are the 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.210 real genuine professionals who know what they're doing. 0:13:57.450 --> 0:14:01.800 There are a number of existing industry initiatives, aren't there? 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.500 And there are several groups. I've spoken with people from 0:14:04.500 --> 0:14:07.470 the Digital Property Steering Group, from the Home Buying and 0:14:07.470 --> 0:14:12.001 Selling Council. I know a little bit about what (inaudible) 0:14:12.001 --> 0:14:14.130 are doing and I know that they've got backing 0:14:14.130 --> 0:14:20.070 of the land registry, which suggests government support. So some 0:14:20.070 --> 0:14:22.410 really good stuff happening, a lot of people pushing in 0:14:22.410 --> 0:14:27.630 the same direction. But how can we avoid a siloed 0:14:28.290 --> 0:14:36.600 approach? And what I guess I'm conscious of is, if all 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:40.860 the changes aren't mandatory, then every firm in the process... 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.460 It has to involve everybody or otherwise it doesn't work. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:47.670 Is that fair? Clare, have you got thoughts on that one? 0:14:47.850 --> 0:14:53.880 I have definitely. I absolutely think that's a really important factor 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.910 that these points are made mandatory. If they're not and 0:14:56.910 --> 0:14:59.910 they're voluntary, do you get the same buy- in from 0:14:59.910 --> 0:15:02.430 everybody, and then does it work? Does it have that impact 0:15:02.430 --> 0:15:06.600 that it needs or some parts of the process more 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.109 engaged, more invested than others? And I think that where 0:15:10.110 --> 0:15:13.380 it could start to fall away. So that investment, that 0:15:13.380 --> 0:15:16.800 bringing this together. How I see it, there's plenty of 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:21.600 verticals, plenty of really good work potentially going on vertically, 0:15:21.810 --> 0:15:24.600 but horizontally. And this is where I see these groups 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.170 really adding value, is they're the horizontal and they've got 0:15:28.170 --> 0:15:31.140 the power, if you like, with industry to really bring 0:15:31.140 --> 0:15:34.410 and connect those verticals. And then I think we'll really 0:15:34.410 --> 0:15:39.060 see progress. So communication, I think using technology is super 0:15:39.060 --> 0:15:43.470 important. How do we speed up the old processes? How 0:15:43.470 --> 0:15:46.470 do we move on from probably where we were 20 0:15:46.470 --> 0:15:51.090 years ago and use data? I think that is really key, and AI technology 0:15:51.780 --> 0:15:55.440 to really drive this forward. And I absolutely believe it's buy- 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.920 in and commitment and mandatory for all parties. 0:16:00.660 --> 0:16:03.390 And I think that's really important point that you get 0:16:04.470 --> 0:16:08.190 the Digital Property Market Steering Group that you refer to, 0:16:08.190 --> 0:16:12.180 Phil. That's bringing together all the right people, whether it's 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:16.620 professional bodies or companies themselves, members of government, officials within 0:16:16.620 --> 0:16:19.890 government, and so that we can get this full perspective 0:16:19.890 --> 0:16:22.770 across the sectors as well, whether it's property or finance, 0:16:22.770 --> 0:16:27.930 or whatever. Because some things that hold up transactions are 0:16:27.930 --> 0:16:31.290 things like the interaction with HMRC, for instance, just doing 0:16:31.290 --> 0:16:33.570 checks on are these people who they say they are. 0:16:34.020 --> 0:16:37.950 And Clare mentions the land registry. Critical to the future 0:16:37.950 --> 0:16:40.860 of this is digitizing the land registry. Now what a 0:16:40.860 --> 0:16:44.820 project that's going to be and that's not something I'd like to head up, but 0:16:45.150 --> 0:16:47.820 good luck to whoever does that. But that is vital 0:16:47.820 --> 0:16:51.570 and that is really going to accelerate what we can do. 0:16:51.690 --> 0:16:55.050 I believe that's underway, the digitization of land registry, but 0:16:55.050 --> 0:16:57.210 as you say that's a big old project. 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:57.900 Yes. 0:16:59.010 --> 0:17:06.030 Even if we've got collaboration from the different sectors, what 0:17:06.030 --> 0:17:09.000 is it that's going to be the hurdles or the 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.619 stumbling block? Is it the capacity of technology? Is it 0:17:13.890 --> 0:17:17.700 legislation? Is it culture within the industry? People are used 0:17:17.700 --> 0:17:19.590 to working in their own way and doing their own 0:17:19.590 --> 0:17:22.350 things. What are the hurdles would you say? 0:17:22.350 --> 0:17:25.169 I think it is- 0:17:25.170 --> 0:17:25.501 All of the above. 0:17:25.501 --> 0:17:31.230 Yes. Yes. But I feel that that is really crucial to the 0:17:31.230 --> 0:17:34.980 success of this. The governance of that, the security of 0:17:34.980 --> 0:17:39.389 all of that. Otherwise where will we be in 20 0:17:39.390 --> 0:17:43.440 years time? We could be back to square one. So 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:44.369 it's progress. 0:17:44.910 --> 0:17:47.670 I would absolutely agree with that, Clare. I think that 0:17:47.670 --> 0:17:53.550 confidence in the data. It's really the main reason why 0:17:54.030 --> 0:17:57.270 the previous HIPS initiative really didn't work because of the 0:17:57.270 --> 0:17:59.880 lack of confidence there. I think from our own point 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:01.920 of view, when I look at this from the Institution 0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:05.879 Chartered Surveyors point of view, we're really going to need 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.260 a transition period to this. Because right now, there aren't 0:18:10.260 --> 0:18:15.480 enough qualified chartered surveyors to do all of the surveys 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.109 and the transactions that we need to get done given 0:18:19.109 --> 0:18:21.840 the scale of the market. And if you think in 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:25.830 2025, they were just shy of, I think it was a million 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.859 exchanges. That just gives you an idea of the size 0:18:28.859 --> 0:18:33.150 of the market. So we as a profession will need 0:18:33.150 --> 0:18:35.490 some time to ramp up, so that we have got 0:18:35.490 --> 0:18:39.418 enough qualified surveyors who can deliver this. And as I 0:18:39.419 --> 0:18:42.000 was saying about the agents as well, I think we need 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:45.780 to give them time to make sure that they can, if necessary, 0:18:45.780 --> 0:18:49.470 get the right qualifications and demonstrate to their clients that 0:18:49.500 --> 0:18:51.570 they're absolutely at the top of their game as well. 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.280 I was just going to say, I think it's not 0:18:53.280 --> 0:18:56.580 just from the surveying side that that could be... we do 0:18:56.580 --> 0:18:59.550 need some time and transitioning the conveyancing side of it 0:18:59.550 --> 0:19:03.810 as well. And the legal workers across the country, how 0:19:03.810 --> 0:19:08.100 can government drive recruitment there, drive training, drive support to 0:19:08.100 --> 0:19:10.709 really drive that forward? That's a huge part of the 0:19:10.710 --> 0:19:14.970 problem, the conveyancing side. So that can't just be sorted 0:19:14.970 --> 0:19:18.689 overnight. That needs time, it needs investment, it needs energy 0:19:18.690 --> 0:19:20.550 to sort that part of the process out too. 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:24.570 You mentioned home information packs. I can't remember the year 0:19:24.570 --> 0:19:28.800 that that came and went, but why did that fail? What 0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.020 happened, and what's going to be different this time? 0:19:31.590 --> 0:19:36.270 From my point of view, it was questions over the 0:19:36.270 --> 0:19:40.590 real provenance of the data. So bearing in mind, this 0:19:40.590 --> 0:19:45.810 was a few years ago when actually the ability to 0:19:45.810 --> 0:19:48.090 get hold of data and the existence of data was 0:19:48.510 --> 0:19:51.300 not as good as it is today. So that was 0:19:51.300 --> 0:19:53.730 always a concern. And what that led to was a 0:19:53.730 --> 0:19:56.970 lot of rework being done, so you got this entire 0:19:56.970 --> 0:20:00.750 duplication because people were nervous about it. I think also 0:20:00.750 --> 0:20:05.369 at the time, was the government wholly behind what they 0:20:05.369 --> 0:20:08.310 were doing in terms of the information packs and so 0:20:08.310 --> 0:20:11.460 on? I think probably not necessarily. But all I see 0:20:11.460 --> 0:20:17.340 now is absolutely a real drive from the current government 0:20:17.580 --> 0:20:21.060 to get this home buying and selling process sorted out 0:20:21.060 --> 0:20:23.310 because it is costing so much money, as you said 0:20:23.310 --> 0:20:26.040 at the beginning, Phil, and it is a real issue 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:29.790 for the public, the consumer. So it is something that 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.629 the will is absolutely there because the need is there. 0:20:33.900 --> 0:20:37.710 That's good to hear. Clare, in terms of brokers, brokers 0:20:37.710 --> 0:20:39.570 are listening to this, if there was one thing that 0:20:40.230 --> 0:20:44.879 you felt that they should know or that they should go 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:47.369 and find out about to keep themselves ahead of the 0:20:47.369 --> 0:20:49.800 game. Because there are changes coming and they're going to 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.380 be thick and fast. Well, they might not be fast, 0:20:52.380 --> 0:20:55.890 but there's going to be plenty of them. What should 0:20:55.890 --> 0:21:00.480 they be doing? Where should they go looking for information? 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.760 I think there's so much information out there. It can actually be quite confusing the 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:06.600 amount of information that is out there. So we've got 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:10.169 an Association of Mortgage Intermediaries and they have responded to 0:21:10.170 --> 0:21:13.109 the consultation paper that came out. They are a source 0:21:13.109 --> 0:21:18.389 of really great information around what's going on. Use your 0:21:18.390 --> 0:21:25.350 network, your mortgage club. Read the press, there's so much positive news 0:21:25.350 --> 0:21:28.350 in the trade press as well. And I think you 0:21:28.350 --> 0:21:32.340 can find the information online, access it. One thing I 0:21:32.340 --> 0:21:34.590 do think we really need to be careful about is, 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.129 there is so much information in the mortgage market about it 0:21:38.130 --> 0:21:41.490 at the moment, so we really need to make sure that that comes across really 0:21:41.490 --> 0:21:45.389 clear. Podcasts, webinars just like this, I think will really help. 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:47.970 And I would say from an RICS point of view, 0:21:50.340 --> 0:21:54.480 we have amounts of information on the RICS website, but also 0:21:54.480 --> 0:21:58.560 we're creating a specific home buyers and sellers hub. And 0:21:58.560 --> 0:22:01.980 we'll keep updating that particularly as results in the consultation 0:22:01.980 --> 0:22:04.169 come out and so on, or if we're seeing things 0:22:04.170 --> 0:22:06.869 go in a particular direction. So that will come out 0:22:06.869 --> 0:22:07.710 in a matter of weeks. 0:22:07.950 --> 0:22:11.820 Well, great to hear your combined thoughts and it's actually 0:22:11.820 --> 0:22:14.340 a real of comfort to know that everyone is genuinely 0:22:14.340 --> 0:22:17.490 pushing in the same direction. There is proper collaboration across 0:22:17.490 --> 0:22:21.720 the different sectors. Let's get this sorted, goodness me. That 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:25.410 was Justin Young, who's the CEO of the Royal Institution 0:22:25.410 --> 0:22:28.890 of Chartered Surveyors and Clare Beardmore, Director of L& G 0:22:28.890 --> 0:22:32.700 Mortgage Club. We're recording this on the 28th of January. 0:22:33.090 --> 0:22:36.119 The views expressed by myself and external guests are not 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:39.510 necessarily the views of Barclays. But thanks for listening to 0:22:39.510 --> 0:22:43.470 Mortgage Insider. I'm Phil Spencer. Check out the show notes 0:22:43.470 --> 0:22:46.109 for more information on what we've been talking about, and 0:22:46.109 --> 0:22:48.030 hope to see you next time. Join us then.