1 00:00:03,029 --> 00:00:06,540 Phil Spencer: Welcome to Mortgage Insider from Barclays, the one- stop shop 2 00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:09,360 Phil Spencer: for mortgage brokers and all you need to know about 3 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:13,140 Phil Spencer: the property industry. I'm Phil Spencer, property expert and TV 4 00:00:13,140 --> 00:00:15,960 Phil Spencer: presenter. And today, we're going to be talking about a 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,110 Phil Spencer: hotly debated topic, and one that's very close to my 6 00:00:19,110 --> 00:00:22,950 Phil Spencer: own heart, the home buying process. Believe it or not, 7 00:00:23,460 --> 00:00:27,510 Phil Spencer: the UK has the slowest timeline for moving house amongst 8 00:00:27,540 --> 00:00:32,130 Phil Spencer: 12 of the world's most developed countries, around one in 9 00:00:32,130 --> 00:00:36,540 Phil Spencer: three deals fall through. Anyway, I am joined today by 10 00:00:36,540 --> 00:00:39,210 Phil Spencer: two experts and it'll be interesting to see if they 11 00:00:39,210 --> 00:00:43,440 Phil Spencer: have similar perspectives on the topic. Justin Young, Justin is 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,860 Phil Spencer: the CEO of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors or 13 00:00:46,860 --> 00:00:51,810 Phil Spencer: RICS, and Clare Beardmore. Clare is Director of L& G Mortgage Club. 14 00:00:51,870 --> 00:00:54,270 Phil Spencer: Welcome to you both. Great to have you on. To 15 00:00:54,270 --> 00:00:56,490 Phil Spencer: kick off with it, let's just start, where are we at 16 00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:59,310 Phil Spencer: the moment in terms of the house buying process? How 17 00:00:59,310 --> 00:01:02,160 Phil Spencer: long does it take on average to buy a house 18 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,979 Phil Spencer: at the moment? Justin, I guess that's one for you. 19 00:01:05,130 --> 00:01:09,090 Justin Young: Sure. So it's a complex process that's taking too long, 20 00:01:09,090 --> 00:01:11,370 Justin Young: that's for sure. And it currently is taking about on 21 00:01:11,370 --> 00:01:14,400 Justin Young: average, 120 days. And so, when we think that's the 22 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:17,100 Justin Young: average, there's a lot of stuff that's taking longer than 23 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:21,209 Justin Young: that and that in itself is a massive increase. Since 24 00:01:21,270 --> 00:01:27,330 Justin Young: 2007, that has gone up by 60%. So something is 25 00:01:27,330 --> 00:01:30,360 Justin Young: really getting in the way of this and it really is the 26 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,380 Justin Young: detail of the process and when things happen sequentially and 27 00:01:34,380 --> 00:01:35,700 Justin Young: the fact that it takes so long. 28 00:01:36,090 --> 00:01:40,380 Phil Spencer: It's a shame, isn't it? Because in today's world, the 29 00:01:40,380 --> 00:01:43,980 Phil Spencer: information is all available so much quicker, but we're not 30 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:47,610 Phil Spencer: getting it through the process. So I've read recently that 31 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:52,260 Phil Spencer: one and a half billion pounds a year is spent or 32 00:01:52,260 --> 00:01:57,960 Phil Spencer: lost in aborted transactions. And that affects 500, 000 people, one in 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:01,440 Phil Spencer: three deals falling through. So we have got some real 34 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:02,431 Phil Spencer: obstacles, haven't we? 35 00:02:02,431 --> 00:02:04,230 Justin Young: We certainly have. And as you say, there is a 36 00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:07,470 Justin Young: lot of information available. It is there. It is actually 37 00:02:07,470 --> 00:02:10,860 Justin Young: getting hold of that information and I'm sure we'll come 38 00:02:10,860 --> 00:02:13,980 Justin Young: on to talk about methods by which we could digitize 39 00:02:13,980 --> 00:02:17,700 Justin Young: the entire process and really make it happen a lot 40 00:02:17,700 --> 00:02:20,790 Justin Young: more smoothly. But also as I was mentioning this piece 41 00:02:20,790 --> 00:02:24,360 Justin Young: about sequencing, if we can get things started earlier in 42 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:28,410 Justin Young: the process, then actually we can then run things in 43 00:02:28,410 --> 00:02:30,810 Justin Young: parallel, so that it doesn't take so long. 44 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,959 Phil Spencer: Wouldn't that be a nice thing for us all? Clare, 45 00:02:34,590 --> 00:02:40,740 Phil Spencer: brokers, it's disappointing their clients. It's disappointing themselves, if they've 46 00:02:40,740 --> 00:02:43,380 Phil Spencer: got a re- broker, the whole mortgage again. And there 47 00:02:44,669 --> 00:02:46,650 Phil Spencer: are probably stories of people having to do that several 48 00:02:46,650 --> 00:02:49,320 Phil Spencer: times. So it's increasing their workload, it's affecting their bottom 49 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:51,720 Phil Spencer: line. It's bad news for them as well. 50 00:02:51,870 --> 00:02:55,200 Clare Beardmore: Yeah, absolutely. And if you think often, the broker is the 51 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:58,470 Clare Beardmore: person that deals directly with that customer, does all that hand- 52 00:02:58,470 --> 00:03:01,650 Clare Beardmore: holding, is their support throughout the process. Not just to 53 00:03:01,650 --> 00:03:05,970 Clare Beardmore: advise on a product or a rate, it's absolutely that 54 00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:11,160 Clare Beardmore: handholding. So I've heard one really extreme example recently where 55 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:15,330 Clare Beardmore: a lady got a customer that they dealt with for 56 00:03:15,330 --> 00:03:18,030 Clare Beardmore: a number of years, was actually on property number eight. 57 00:03:18,090 --> 00:03:21,660 Clare Beardmore: So many properties had fallen through. Now I know that's 58 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:24,720 Clare Beardmore: quite extreme, but can you imagine the amount of wasted 59 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,680 Clare Beardmore: resource, the amount of wasted time, money, et cetera, to 60 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,889 Clare Beardmore: get them to still looking for a property on, fingers 61 00:03:31,889 --> 00:03:36,300 Clare Beardmore: crossed, on number nine. So yes, plenty of wasted time 62 00:03:36,300 --> 00:03:37,350 Clare Beardmore: and resource there. 63 00:03:37,500 --> 00:03:40,320 Phil Spencer: So painful. And yet there are other parts of the 64 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,310 Phil Spencer: world and even other parts of the United Kingdom, and 65 00:03:44,310 --> 00:03:47,850 Phil Spencer: I'm thinking Scotland, that have a different system. Whether that's 66 00:03:47,850 --> 00:03:50,640 Phil Spencer: more efficient or quicker, I'm not entirely sure, but it 67 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,290 Phil Spencer: is there, isn't it? Should we just talk a little 68 00:03:52,290 --> 00:03:54,930 Phil Spencer: bit about the Scottish market and how that works Justin? 69 00:03:54,990 --> 00:03:58,170 Justin Young: Yeah, very happy to do that. And it is absolutely 70 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:03,600 Justin Young: quicker in Scotland. It's down to about 90 days- ish, 71 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:09,300 Justin Young: so a much shorter process. Also the failure rate is 72 00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:12,690 Justin Young: much smaller as well, it's only about 11%. Whereas you 73 00:04:12,690 --> 00:04:14,940 Justin Young: compare that to the figure that you were saying Phil 74 00:04:14,940 --> 00:04:17,850 Justin Young: at a third, it's very, very stark different. So it 75 00:04:17,850 --> 00:04:21,479 Justin Young: does have a real impact. And the secret to what's 76 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,589 Justin Young: happened in Scotland, is that they create the home report 77 00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:28,620 Justin Young: as it's called, and that is all created before the 78 00:04:28,620 --> 00:04:32,070 Justin Young: property is actually put on the market. So in that, 79 00:04:32,339 --> 00:04:34,589 Justin Young: it'll be the information that you'd want to have about 80 00:04:34,589 --> 00:04:38,370 Justin Young: that particular property. It might be the EPC ratings, it 81 00:04:38,370 --> 00:04:44,490 Justin Young: might be information around the property's condition, even evaluation of 82 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:47,610 Justin Young: the property. And the important thing about doing the condition 83 00:04:47,610 --> 00:04:50,820 Justin Young: and the valuation piece is that it's done by a 84 00:04:50,820 --> 00:04:55,109 Justin Young: chartered surveyor. So a qualified professional who is able then 85 00:04:55,110 --> 00:04:58,620 Justin Young: to give you very clear indication of what you would 86 00:04:58,620 --> 00:05:00,779 Justin Young: need to do to the property if there were certain 87 00:05:00,779 --> 00:05:04,469 Justin Young: issues with it. Because certainly in England, we see of 88 00:05:04,470 --> 00:05:08,040 Justin Young: those failure rates that you were talking about, Phil, where 89 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,400 Justin Young: the transactions don't go ahead, a third of those are 90 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,860 Justin Young: to do with what is found in the survey. And 91 00:05:13,860 --> 00:05:17,130 Justin Young: so, if that's happening later on in the process, it's 92 00:05:17,130 --> 00:05:18,839 Justin Young: all too late by then, which is where you get 93 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,510 Justin Young: that failure. So Scotland do it very well by having 94 00:05:21,510 --> 00:05:24,510 Justin Young: this home report which is there before the property goes 95 00:05:24,510 --> 00:05:25,050 Justin Young: on the market. 96 00:05:25,410 --> 00:05:29,789 Phil Spencer: And are lenders prepared to accept a home report that's 97 00:05:29,790 --> 00:05:32,940 Phil Spencer: been commissioned by the vendor of the property? 98 00:05:33,060 --> 00:05:36,330 Justin Young: Certainly from my point of view, probably Clare as much 99 00:05:36,330 --> 00:05:39,390 Justin Young: for you as well, certainly buyers are very happy to 100 00:05:39,390 --> 00:05:41,880 Justin Young: see that report because they know it's been done by 101 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,910 Justin Young: an independent person. So that's why you need this chartered 102 00:05:44,910 --> 00:05:47,010 Justin Young: surveyor to do that part of the report. 103 00:05:47,339 --> 00:05:49,740 Clare Beardmore: I was just going to add to that I think 104 00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:53,520 Clare Beardmore: even if a lender chose to do an independent valuation 105 00:05:54,029 --> 00:05:56,760 Clare Beardmore: for their own purposes after, I think to get that 106 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:06,360 Clare Beardmore: property on the market with a professional survey done, it would absolutely bringing 107 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:08,909 Clare Beardmore: sales through the channel quicker. 108 00:06:09,180 --> 00:06:12,690 Phil Spencer: Okay. So arguably, it would take longer to get a 109 00:06:12,690 --> 00:06:16,589 Phil Spencer: property onto the market and it would actually cost somebody 110 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,940 Phil Spencer: the cost of getting the home report done. But having 111 00:06:20,940 --> 00:06:23,969 Phil Spencer: got onto the market, then the buyers would be better 112 00:06:23,970 --> 00:06:27,210 Phil Spencer: informed or they take better decisions. That's the theory. 113 00:06:27,450 --> 00:06:30,990 Justin Young: I would just say that. Yeah, that's absolutely true. So 114 00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:34,260 Justin Young: what we often find, and this is something that we 115 00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:37,560 Justin Young: would lose by going into this process, is that a 116 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,200 Justin Young: number of people will put properties onto the market in 117 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,659 Justin Young: a sort of speculative kind of way, just to see, 118 00:06:42,690 --> 00:06:45,240 Justin Young: okay, let's put our toe in the water. See will 119 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,180 Justin Young: this property move at this current point in the market 120 00:06:48,180 --> 00:06:52,110 Justin Young: time of year, et cetera? So we would lose that, 121 00:06:52,140 --> 00:06:53,580 Justin Young: which in a way is a bit of a shame 122 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:56,520 Justin Young: because that's a good part of the market that keeps 123 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,820 Justin Young: things moving. But equally, what you do want is this 124 00:06:59,820 --> 00:07:02,400 Justin Young: fast process once something is on the market. So I 125 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,680 Justin Young: think on balance, it's better to do all the stuff 126 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,700 Justin Young: upfront because you need to be serious about selling a 127 00:07:08,700 --> 00:07:10,110 Justin Young: property if it's going to go on the market. 128 00:07:10,110 --> 00:07:13,440 Phil Spencer: Yeah, it's about having better decisions, isn't it, at the end 129 00:07:13,470 --> 00:07:16,950 Phil Spencer: of the day? The buyers are more informed and make 130 00:07:16,950 --> 00:07:18,900 Phil Spencer: a decision that they're happy to stick with and not 131 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:22,230 Phil Spencer: change their mind two months down the line when everyone's 132 00:07:22,230 --> 00:07:26,340 Phil Spencer: spent money and emotion and commitment, and then some other 133 00:07:26,340 --> 00:07:27,390 Phil Spencer: information comes to light. 134 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,020 Clare Beardmore: I would totally agree with that, Phil. I think it's flipping the 135 00:07:31,020 --> 00:07:32,880 Clare Beardmore: process on its head at the moment. And if you 136 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,000 Clare Beardmore: look from a mortgage perspective, you get the person ready, 137 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,460 Clare Beardmore: you get the person mortgage ready. So you would've done 138 00:07:38,460 --> 00:07:40,619 Clare Beardmore: credit checks, you would've done all of that, how would you 139 00:07:40,620 --> 00:07:43,320 Clare Beardmore: get the property ready? So yes, you could lose some 140 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,119 Clare Beardmore: of those buyers and maybe speculative buyers, but what I 141 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,390 Clare Beardmore: think you would see is that huge increase around completions. 142 00:07:51,390 --> 00:07:55,140 Clare Beardmore: You'd see that one in three hopefully decrease, and you 143 00:07:55,140 --> 00:07:58,320 Clare Beardmore: would see that completion rate I think hopefully fill that 144 00:07:58,590 --> 00:07:59,940 Clare Beardmore: loss of reactive buyers. 145 00:08:00,450 --> 00:08:02,640 Justin Young: I think also what you'd see there is this sort of 146 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,261 Justin Young: reduction in duplication of effort as well. 147 00:08:04,261 --> 00:08:04,261 Clare Beardmore: Absolutely. 148 00:08:04,261 --> 00:08:11,130 Justin Young: The amount of surveying, resurveying that's done, inspections and so on, and 149 00:08:11,310 --> 00:08:16,200 Justin Young: searches done time and time again, this is why things 150 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:18,480 Justin Young: need to get done only once in a much more 151 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,530 Justin Young: consistent process. 152 00:08:19,830 --> 00:08:22,650 Phil Spencer: Clare, you make an interesting point there that I'd not 153 00:08:22,650 --> 00:08:26,670 Phil Spencer: thought of before. Actually if we're asking vendors to get 154 00:08:26,670 --> 00:08:30,180 Phil Spencer: themselves and their properties ready for sale, in actual fact 155 00:08:30,180 --> 00:08:33,780 Phil Spencer: as a broker, you're preparing your buyers- 156 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:34,441 Clare Beardmore: Absolutely. 157 00:08:34,441 --> 00:08:36,660 Phil Spencer: ... to go out into the market. And so, there is 158 00:08:37,530 --> 00:08:38,459 Phil Spencer: a bit of give and take. 159 00:08:38,730 --> 00:08:42,000 Clare Beardmore: Yes, definitely. I think a big push in the industry 160 00:08:42,510 --> 00:08:44,730 Clare Beardmore: that hasn't been looked at in this home buyers and selling 161 00:08:44,730 --> 00:08:47,309 Clare Beardmore: reform, is that earlier stage in the journey, how do you 162 00:08:47,309 --> 00:08:50,670 Clare Beardmore: get that person as a mortgage broker, really mortgage ready, 163 00:08:50,940 --> 00:08:53,100 Clare Beardmore: rather than go out, find the home they love and 164 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:55,709 Clare Beardmore: then realize that they can't afford it? How do you get that 165 00:08:55,710 --> 00:09:00,420 Clare Beardmore: person ready? So credit checks done, affordability done. And I 166 00:09:00,450 --> 00:09:03,630 Clare Beardmore: think just as importantly is the property, to get property 167 00:09:03,690 --> 00:09:06,540 Clare Beardmore: ready as well and combine the two and I think 168 00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:13,380 Clare Beardmore: you'd have a much higher success rate of driving away some of those inefficiencies. 169 00:09:13,830 --> 00:09:18,240 Justin Young: And that's where we see some of that taking place in other countries where certainly somewhere 170 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:23,790 Justin Young: like Australia where it's a highly digitized process. And when 171 00:09:23,790 --> 00:09:27,330 Justin Young: we look at countries like Australia, Estonia, Finland, the thing 172 00:09:27,330 --> 00:09:30,300 Justin Young: they all have going for them and they're really efficient processes 173 00:09:30,570 --> 00:09:33,959 Justin Young: is they are digitized. That's absolutely how things happen. So 174 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,840 Justin Young: it's very quick. But in addition to that, in Australia, 175 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,230 Justin Young: particularly in the auction space, if you do put in 176 00:09:40,230 --> 00:09:43,140 Justin Young: that bid for the house and you win it, the 177 00:09:43,140 --> 00:09:46,920 Justin Young: property, that is yours. It's a binding bid. And I 178 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:51,059 Justin Young: think that's where we could potentially move to that would 179 00:09:51,570 --> 00:09:56,309 Justin Young: stop the buyer sort of getting cold feet, et cetera. 180 00:09:57,809 --> 00:10:00,510 Justin Young: As Clare is saying, get the buyers absolutely ready so 181 00:10:00,510 --> 00:10:02,520 Justin Young: they know what they can afford and how they can 182 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,760 Justin Young: do it, and then have that lined up with the 183 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,679 Justin Young: property preparedness as well. 184 00:10:07,860 --> 00:10:09,959 Clare Beardmore: I think there's a lot of innovation going on in 185 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,660 Clare Beardmore: the mortgage market to get people mortgage ready. I think 186 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:16,679 Clare Beardmore: lots of innovation and different silos. And mortgage offers can 187 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,260 Clare Beardmore: be done within 24 hours, so that mortgage offer can 188 00:10:19,260 --> 00:10:23,010 Clare Beardmore: be ready. And then it hits all of these checks 189 00:10:23,010 --> 00:10:26,670 Clare Beardmore: coming out that really slow that process down. Is a 190 00:10:26,670 --> 00:10:29,730 Clare Beardmore: mortgage market perfect? Absolutely not. But I think we have 191 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:33,510 Clare Beardmore: used innovation and automation to try and speed up some 192 00:10:33,510 --> 00:10:37,020 Clare Beardmore: of those processes. Certainty, I think it's a really important 193 00:10:37,020 --> 00:10:38,100 Clare Beardmore: word in this process. 194 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,329 Phil Spencer: Justin, you mentioned Australia. I've spent lots of time in 195 00:10:42,330 --> 00:10:46,530 Phil Spencer: Australia and I'm interested in that auction system. And it's always 196 00:10:46,530 --> 00:10:49,140 Phil Spencer: intrigued me that somebody could stand outside a house and 197 00:10:49,170 --> 00:10:51,510 Phil Spencer: they do actually have them on a Saturday morning on 198 00:10:51,510 --> 00:10:53,460 Phil Spencer: the street and everybody gathers around. It's a piece of 199 00:10:53,460 --> 00:10:56,550 Phil Spencer: theater, it's fantastic to watch. If somebody's putting their hand 200 00:10:56,550 --> 00:10:57,900 Phil Spencer: up and their hand up and their hand up and their 201 00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:00,780 Phil Spencer: hand up, I don't know where the banks come in 202 00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:04,740 Phil Spencer: to sort of ratify what someone's just put their hand 203 00:11:04,740 --> 00:11:09,270 Phil Spencer: up and bid. It's a conundrum to me because somebody 204 00:11:09,270 --> 00:11:11,880 Phil Spencer: could massively overpay and it's all done. 205 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:14,520 Justin Young: And I think that's the joy of the auction system, 206 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,320 Justin Young: isn't it? If someone chooses to overpay for a property 207 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,880 Justin Young: but they can afford it, well that's slightly on them, isn't it? And I 208 00:11:24,540 --> 00:11:27,540 Justin Young: think this is where the other piece would come in 209 00:11:27,540 --> 00:11:30,450 Justin Young: and where I see the success of this process in 210 00:11:30,450 --> 00:11:34,500 Justin Young: other countries, is that there's elements of regulation and legislation on 211 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:37,830 Justin Young: it as well. So this point about the offer being 212 00:11:37,830 --> 00:11:42,870 Justin Young: binding, you are absolutely in that. If you ratchet up 213 00:11:42,870 --> 00:11:45,030 Justin Young: that auction price, you've got to go for it. So 214 00:11:45,030 --> 00:11:49,199 Justin Young: I think that holds people back to what they can afford 215 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,200 Justin Young: because they know they will have to pay out for 216 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,939 Justin Young: that if it goes their way. 217 00:11:54,210 --> 00:12:00,209 Phil Spencer: Okay. Let's talk a bit about the reform. I don't 218 00:12:00,210 --> 00:12:03,959 Phil Spencer: know what stage it's got to. The consultation stage was 219 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,179 Phil Spencer: announced back end of last year, I think it was. 220 00:12:06,179 --> 00:12:09,390 Phil Spencer: But there's been lots of talk about the upfront material 221 00:12:09,390 --> 00:12:13,679 Phil Spencer: information and that sounds exactly along the lines that we're all 222 00:12:14,340 --> 00:12:17,640 Phil Spencer: in agreement with. But can we talk where that stage 223 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:18,840 Phil Spencer: has got to? Where are we at? 224 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:23,130 Justin Young: Yeah. So that process is still going on. We're gathering 225 00:12:23,130 --> 00:12:27,360 Justin Young: all the feedback across the industry, both from the financial 226 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,809 Justin Young: perspective, also legal and from the property sphere as well. 227 00:12:31,230 --> 00:12:36,150 Justin Young: So bringing that information together, it's going to be some 228 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:41,250 Justin Young: months of the analysis of that consultation before anything further 229 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:46,050 Justin Young: happens. But I think it's been a really interesting consultation 230 00:12:46,470 --> 00:12:49,950 Justin Young: in that it contains certainly all this piece around upfront 231 00:12:49,950 --> 00:12:54,780 Justin Young: information and how that would be gathered. But it also 232 00:12:55,230 --> 00:13:00,569 Justin Young: talks about how we actually get estate agents, property agents 233 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,939 Justin Young: into a space where they can really be delivering their 234 00:13:05,940 --> 00:13:10,800 Justin Young: best as well. And so, whether that's around light touch 235 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,150 Justin Young: regulation, primarily through qualifications. So making sure that your high 236 00:13:15,150 --> 00:13:18,900 Justin Young: street estate agencies actually qualified to do the job they 237 00:13:18,900 --> 00:13:22,980 Justin Young: know they need to do, then that's all very helpful 238 00:13:22,980 --> 00:13:28,170 Justin Young: as well, and that's in the consultation. We see this as 239 00:13:28,170 --> 00:13:32,730 Justin Young: well looking for just to upskill the entire market. And 240 00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:36,090 Justin Young: this is why also this requirement for chartered surveyors in 241 00:13:36,090 --> 00:13:40,290 Justin Young: Scotland is also something that I think should be replicated 242 00:13:40,290 --> 00:13:42,990 Justin Young: in England. Of course, I would say that, wouldn't I, 243 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:47,850 Justin Young: in my role at RICS? But we absolutely need the 244 00:13:47,850 --> 00:13:51,270 Justin Young: consumer, the buyers and also the sellers to be really 245 00:13:51,270 --> 00:13:54,600 Justin Young: comfortable that the people who are advising them are the 246 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,210 Justin Young: real genuine professionals who know what they're doing. 247 00:13:57,450 --> 00:14:01,800 Phil Spencer: There are a number of existing industry initiatives, aren't there? 248 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,500 Phil Spencer: And there are several groups. I've spoken with people from 249 00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:07,470 Phil Spencer: the Digital Property Steering Group, from the Home Buying and 250 00:14:07,470 --> 00:14:12,001 Phil Spencer: Selling Council. I know a little bit about what (inaudible) 251 00:14:12,001 --> 00:14:14,130 Phil Spencer: are doing and I know that they've got backing 252 00:14:14,130 --> 00:14:20,070 Phil Spencer: of the land registry, which suggests government support. So some 253 00:14:20,070 --> 00:14:22,410 Phil Spencer: really good stuff happening, a lot of people pushing in 254 00:14:22,410 --> 00:14:27,630 Phil Spencer: the same direction. But how can we avoid a siloed 255 00:14:28,290 --> 00:14:36,600 Phil Spencer: approach? And what I guess I'm conscious of is, if all 256 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:40,860 Phil Spencer: the changes aren't mandatory, then every firm in the process... 257 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,460 Phil Spencer: It has to involve everybody or otherwise it doesn't work. 258 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,670 Phil Spencer: Is that fair? Clare, have you got thoughts on that one? 259 00:14:47,850 --> 00:14:53,880 Clare Beardmore: I have definitely. I absolutely think that's a really important factor 260 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,910 Clare Beardmore: that these points are made mandatory. If they're not and 261 00:14:56,910 --> 00:14:59,910 Clare Beardmore: they're voluntary, do you get the same buy- in from 262 00:14:59,910 --> 00:15:02,430 Clare Beardmore: everybody, and then does it work? Does it have that impact 263 00:15:02,430 --> 00:15:06,600 Clare Beardmore: that it needs or some parts of the process more 264 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:10,109 Clare Beardmore: engaged, more invested than others? And I think that where 265 00:15:10,110 --> 00:15:13,380 Clare Beardmore: it could start to fall away. So that investment, that 266 00:15:13,380 --> 00:15:16,800 Clare Beardmore: bringing this together. How I see it, there's plenty of 267 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:21,600 Clare Beardmore: verticals, plenty of really good work potentially going on vertically, 268 00:15:21,810 --> 00:15:24,600 Clare Beardmore: but horizontally. And this is where I see these groups 269 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,170 Clare Beardmore: really adding value, is they're the horizontal and they've got 270 00:15:28,170 --> 00:15:31,140 Clare Beardmore: the power, if you like, with industry to really bring 271 00:15:31,140 --> 00:15:34,410 Clare Beardmore: and connect those verticals. And then I think we'll really 272 00:15:34,410 --> 00:15:39,060 Clare Beardmore: see progress. So communication, I think using technology is super 273 00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:43,470 Clare Beardmore: important. How do we speed up the old processes? How 274 00:15:43,470 --> 00:15:46,470 Clare Beardmore: do we move on from probably where we were 20 275 00:15:46,470 --> 00:15:51,090 Clare Beardmore: years ago and use data? I think that is really key, and AI technology 276 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:55,440 Clare Beardmore: to really drive this forward. And I absolutely believe it's buy- 277 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,920 Clare Beardmore: in and commitment and mandatory for all parties. 278 00:16:00,660 --> 00:16:03,390 Justin Young: And I think that's really important point that you get 279 00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:08,190 Justin Young: the Digital Property Market Steering Group that you refer to, 280 00:16:08,190 --> 00:16:12,180 Justin Young: Phil. That's bringing together all the right people, whether it's 281 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,620 Justin Young: professional bodies or companies themselves, members of government, officials within 282 00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:19,890 Justin Young: government, and so that we can get this full perspective 283 00:16:19,890 --> 00:16:22,770 Justin Young: across the sectors as well, whether it's property or finance, 284 00:16:22,770 --> 00:16:27,930 Justin Young: or whatever. Because some things that hold up transactions are 285 00:16:27,930 --> 00:16:31,290 Justin Young: things like the interaction with HMRC, for instance, just doing 286 00:16:31,290 --> 00:16:33,570 Justin Young: checks on are these people who they say they are. 287 00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:37,950 Justin Young: And Clare mentions the land registry. Critical to the future 288 00:16:37,950 --> 00:16:40,860 Justin Young: of this is digitizing the land registry. Now what a 289 00:16:40,860 --> 00:16:44,820 Justin Young: project that's going to be and that's not something I'd like to head up, but 290 00:16:45,150 --> 00:16:47,820 Justin Young: good luck to whoever does that. But that is vital 291 00:16:47,820 --> 00:16:51,570 Justin Young: and that is really going to accelerate what we can do. 292 00:16:51,690 --> 00:16:55,050 Phil Spencer: I believe that's underway, the digitization of land registry, but 293 00:16:55,050 --> 00:16:57,210 Phil Spencer: as you say that's a big old project. 294 00:16:57,480 --> 00:16:57,900 Justin Young: Yes. 295 00:16:59,010 --> 00:17:06,030 Phil Spencer: Even if we've got collaboration from the different sectors, what 296 00:17:06,030 --> 00:17:09,000 Phil Spencer: is it that's going to be the hurdles or the 297 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,619 Phil Spencer: stumbling block? Is it the capacity of technology? Is it 298 00:17:13,890 --> 00:17:17,700 Phil Spencer: legislation? Is it culture within the industry? People are used 299 00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:19,590 Phil Spencer: to working in their own way and doing their own 300 00:17:19,590 --> 00:17:22,350 Phil Spencer: things. What are the hurdles would you say? 301 00:17:22,350 --> 00:17:25,169 Clare Beardmore: I think it is- 302 00:17:25,170 --> 00:17:25,501 Phil Spencer: All of the above. 303 00:17:25,501 --> 00:17:31,230 Clare Beardmore: Yes. Yes. But I feel that that is really crucial to the 304 00:17:31,230 --> 00:17:34,980 Clare Beardmore: success of this. The governance of that, the security of 305 00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:39,389 Clare Beardmore: all of that. Otherwise where will we be in 20 306 00:17:39,390 --> 00:17:43,440 Clare Beardmore: years time? We could be back to square one. So 307 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:44,369 Clare Beardmore: it's progress. 308 00:17:44,910 --> 00:17:47,670 Justin Young: I would absolutely agree with that, Clare. I think that 309 00:17:47,670 --> 00:17:53,550 Justin Young: confidence in the data. It's really the main reason why 310 00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:57,270 Justin Young: the previous HIPS initiative really didn't work because of the 311 00:17:57,270 --> 00:17:59,880 Justin Young: lack of confidence there. I think from our own point 312 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:01,920 Justin Young: of view, when I look at this from the Institution 313 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,879 Justin Young: Chartered Surveyors point of view, we're really going to need 314 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,260 Justin Young: a transition period to this. Because right now, there aren't 315 00:18:10,260 --> 00:18:15,480 Justin Young: enough qualified chartered surveyors to do all of the surveys 316 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,109 Justin Young: and the transactions that we need to get done given 317 00:18:19,109 --> 00:18:21,840 Justin Young: the scale of the market. And if you think in 318 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,830 Justin Young: 2025, they were just shy of, I think it was a million 319 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,859 Justin Young: exchanges. That just gives you an idea of the size 320 00:18:28,859 --> 00:18:33,150 Justin Young: of the market. So we as a profession will need 321 00:18:33,150 --> 00:18:35,490 Justin Young: some time to ramp up, so that we have got 322 00:18:35,490 --> 00:18:39,418 Justin Young: enough qualified surveyors who can deliver this. And as I 323 00:18:39,419 --> 00:18:42,000 Justin Young: was saying about the agents as well, I think we need 324 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,780 Justin Young: to give them time to make sure that they can, if necessary, 325 00:18:45,780 --> 00:18:49,470 Justin Young: get the right qualifications and demonstrate to their clients that 326 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:51,570 Justin Young: they're absolutely at the top of their game as well. 327 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,280 Clare Beardmore: I was just going to say, I think it's not 328 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,580 Clare Beardmore: just from the surveying side that that could be... we do 329 00:18:56,580 --> 00:18:59,550 Clare Beardmore: need some time and transitioning the conveyancing side of it 330 00:18:59,550 --> 00:19:03,810 Clare Beardmore: as well. And the legal workers across the country, how 331 00:19:03,810 --> 00:19:08,100 Clare Beardmore: can government drive recruitment there, drive training, drive support to 332 00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:10,709 Clare Beardmore: really drive that forward? That's a huge part of the 333 00:19:10,710 --> 00:19:14,970 Clare Beardmore: problem, the conveyancing side. So that can't just be sorted 334 00:19:14,970 --> 00:19:18,689 Clare Beardmore: overnight. That needs time, it needs investment, it needs energy 335 00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:20,550 Clare Beardmore: to sort that part of the process out too. 336 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,570 Phil Spencer: You mentioned home information packs. I can't remember the year 337 00:19:24,570 --> 00:19:28,800 Phil Spencer: that that came and went, but why did that fail? What 338 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,020 Phil Spencer: happened, and what's going to be different this time? 339 00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:36,270 Justin Young: From my point of view, it was questions over the 340 00:19:36,270 --> 00:19:40,590 Justin Young: real provenance of the data. So bearing in mind, this 341 00:19:40,590 --> 00:19:45,810 Justin Young: was a few years ago when actually the ability to 342 00:19:45,810 --> 00:19:48,090 Justin Young: get hold of data and the existence of data was 343 00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:51,300 Justin Young: not as good as it is today. So that was 344 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:53,730 Justin Young: always a concern. And what that led to was a 345 00:19:53,730 --> 00:19:56,970 Justin Young: lot of rework being done, so you got this entire 346 00:19:56,970 --> 00:20:00,750 Justin Young: duplication because people were nervous about it. I think also 347 00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:05,369 Justin Young: at the time, was the government wholly behind what they 348 00:20:05,369 --> 00:20:08,310 Justin Young: were doing in terms of the information packs and so 349 00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:11,460 Justin Young: on? I think probably not necessarily. But all I see 350 00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:17,340 Justin Young: now is absolutely a real drive from the current government 351 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:21,060 Justin Young: to get this home buying and selling process sorted out 352 00:20:21,060 --> 00:20:23,310 Justin Young: because it is costing so much money, as you said 353 00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:26,040 Justin Young: at the beginning, Phil, and it is a real issue 354 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,790 Justin Young: for the public, the consumer. So it is something that 355 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,629 Justin Young: the will is absolutely there because the need is there. 356 00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:37,710 Phil Spencer: That's good to hear. Clare, in terms of brokers, brokers 357 00:20:37,710 --> 00:20:39,570 Phil Spencer: are listening to this, if there was one thing that 358 00:20:40,230 --> 00:20:44,879 Phil Spencer: you felt that they should know or that they should go 359 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,369 Phil Spencer: and find out about to keep themselves ahead of the 360 00:20:47,369 --> 00:20:49,800 Phil Spencer: game. Because there are changes coming and they're going to 361 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,380 Phil Spencer: be thick and fast. Well, they might not be fast, 362 00:20:52,380 --> 00:20:55,890 Phil Spencer: but there's going to be plenty of them. What should 363 00:20:55,890 --> 00:21:00,480 Phil Spencer: they be doing? Where should they go looking for information? 364 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,760 Clare Beardmore: I think there's so much information out there. It can actually be quite confusing the 365 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,600 Clare Beardmore: amount of information that is out there. So we've got 366 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,169 Clare Beardmore: an Association of Mortgage Intermediaries and they have responded to 367 00:21:10,170 --> 00:21:13,109 Clare Beardmore: the consultation paper that came out. They are a source 368 00:21:13,109 --> 00:21:18,389 Clare Beardmore: of really great information around what's going on. Use your 369 00:21:18,390 --> 00:21:25,350 Clare Beardmore: network, your mortgage club. Read the press, there's so much positive news 370 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:28,350 Clare Beardmore: in the trade press as well. And I think you 371 00:21:28,350 --> 00:21:32,340 Clare Beardmore: can find the information online, access it. One thing I 372 00:21:32,340 --> 00:21:34,590 Clare Beardmore: do think we really need to be careful about is, 373 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,129 Clare Beardmore: there is so much information in the mortgage market about it 374 00:21:38,130 --> 00:21:41,490 Clare Beardmore: at the moment, so we really need to make sure that that comes across really 375 00:21:41,490 --> 00:21:45,389 Clare Beardmore: clear. Podcasts, webinars just like this, I think will really help. 376 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,970 Justin Young: And I would say from an RICS point of view, 377 00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:54,480 Justin Young: we have amounts of information on the RICS website, but also 378 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,560 Justin Young: we're creating a specific home buyers and sellers hub. And 379 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,980 Justin Young: we'll keep updating that particularly as results in the consultation 380 00:22:01,980 --> 00:22:04,169 Justin Young: come out and so on, or if we're seeing things 381 00:22:04,170 --> 00:22:06,869 Justin Young: go in a particular direction. So that will come out 382 00:22:06,869 --> 00:22:07,710 Justin Young: in a matter of weeks. 383 00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:11,820 Phil Spencer: Well, great to hear your combined thoughts and it's actually 384 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:14,340 Phil Spencer: a real of comfort to know that everyone is genuinely 385 00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:17,490 Phil Spencer: pushing in the same direction. There is proper collaboration across 386 00:22:17,490 --> 00:22:21,720 Phil Spencer: the different sectors. Let's get this sorted, goodness me. That 387 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,410 Phil Spencer: was Justin Young, who's the CEO of the Royal Institution 388 00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:28,890 Phil Spencer: of Chartered Surveyors and Clare Beardmore, Director of L& G 389 00:22:28,890 --> 00:22:32,700 Phil Spencer: Mortgage Club. We're recording this on the 28th of January. 390 00:22:33,090 --> 00:22:36,119 Phil Spencer: The views expressed by myself and external guests are not 391 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,510 Phil Spencer: necessarily the views of Barclays. But thanks for listening to 392 00:22:39,510 --> 00:22:43,470 Phil Spencer: Mortgage Insider. I'm Phil Spencer. Check out the show notes 393 00:22:43,470 --> 00:22:46,109 Phil Spencer: for more information on what we've been talking about, and 394 00:22:46,109 --> 00:22:48,030 Phil Spencer: hope to see you next time. Join us then.