Kia: Hey, it's Kia. When it comes to finances, it can
Kia: sometimes feel like a really negative space for women. L&
Kia: G Research last year found that the average pension pot of a
Kia: woman at retirement was found to be less than half
Kia: of that of a man at the same retirement stage.
Kia: So there's a gender pension gap and a gender pay gap. There's
Kia: the expense of childcare and a conversation to be had
Kia: about flexible working. There's a ton to talk about, but
Kia: there is hope. I'm joined today by Emilie Bellet. Emilie
Kia: is passionate about helping women improve their financial lives. She's
Kia: the host of her podcast, The Wallet, and the founder
Kia: of Vestpod, a community with a mission to help people, especially
Kia: women, achieve financial independence. She's also wrote the book, You're
Kia: Not Broke, You're Pre- Rich, which feels very on- brand
Kia: for a little bit richer. So let's dive in. Emilie,
Kia: what are some of the challenges that women face in
Kia: the financial space?
Emilie Bellet: So if you think about our lives, women tend to live longer,
Emilie Bellet: so we should be the one taking extra care of
Emilie Bellet: retirement and planning ahead. But I feel there's a lot
Emilie Bellet: of hurdles and challenges along the way. So let's think
Emilie Bellet: about first the gender pay gap. Women are going to
Emilie Bellet: be paid less than men, then we tend to have
Emilie Bellet: a working life that's not as linear. So we may
Emilie Bellet: take breaks because we take care of our children, but
Emilie Bellet: it's also taking care of elderly parents, taking care of
Emilie Bellet: families, of communities. Women are still the primary carers, so
Emilie Bellet: taking time off means less money being saved, less money
Emilie Bellet: being saved for the short term, but also for the long
Emilie Bellet: term. And also women tend to invest less than men.
Emilie Bellet: So because they're not taking this extra risk with their
Emilie Bellet: money, they're not necessarily getting this extra reward and building
Emilie Bellet: pension pots over the long term. So there's this motherhood
Emilie Bellet: penalty, good daughter penalty. I hate having all these penalties
Emilie Bellet: on women's life, but it's really important to think about
Emilie Bellet: the long term. Another statistic is that 34% of women
Emilie Bellet: say that their financial situation keep them up at night.
Emilie Bellet: So I think because we didn't necessarily have these conversations
Emilie Bellet: about money, don't have the education, and this is men
Emilie Bellet: and women, we never received any financial education. There's also
Emilie Bellet: a lack of confidence when it comes to finances. So
Emilie Bellet: even if women are really good savers, they're not actually
Emilie Bellet: always investing for the long- term and putting money into
Emilie Bellet: their retirement. When you look at pension pots, women will
Emilie Bellet: have pension pots that are half the size of men
Emilie Bellet: at retirement, and this comes from habits that will come from much
Emilie Bellet: earlier in their working lives.
Kia: I mean, as a woman myself, I can definitely attest
Kia: to the things that you said, right? When it comes
Kia: to being a woman, as you so lovingly put it,
Kia: I mean there are penalties for ... You go through life,
Kia: you want to have children, now you've got that penalty
Kia: there. And I think it is so important as women, I
Kia: think, I can't remember the exact number, but there is a stat out
Kia: there that shows that women are better savers, they save
Kia: more than men, but maybe they didn't take as much
Kia: risk on their money. So they didn't put it in investments to help it grow.
Kia: So I think there is that. But speaking about investment
Kia: then, what is this investment gap? So can you describe
Kia: what it is and what can be done about it?
Emilie Bellet: Yeah. So the investment gap is the difference between the
Emilie Bellet: number of women investing and the number of men actually
Emilie Bellet: investing money. And in the UK there's a £ 15 billion
Emilie Bellet: investing gap between men and women. So of course, that's
Emilie Bellet: going to make a huge difference in terms of wealth
Emilie Bellet: building because women, as you said, are great savers, but
Emilie Bellet: not all women are actually investing money. So they're losing
Emilie Bellet: out because by making your money work for you and
Emilie Bellet: putting your money at work. In the stock market, you
Emilie Bellet: may expect higher return over the longer time. But of
Emilie Bellet: course, this comes with a notion of risk and risk
Emilie Bellet: is very difficult to comprehend. So when we look at
Emilie Bellet: the younger generation, you think about maybe the financial crisis
Emilie Bellet: in 2008, people may be worried about the stock market.
Emilie Bellet: There's a lot of misconception when we think about in
Emilie Bellet: culture and movies, we think about the Wolf of Wall
Emilie Bellet: Street. So investing seems really scary and seems something that's
Emilie Bellet: not for everyone. So we sort of miss this education
Emilie Bellet: from a very young age about delayed ratification and budgeting
Emilie Bellet: and how to put your money at work to generate
Emilie Bellet: more return with your money and building wealth. And these
Emilie Bellet: are very important concepts. But if you don't start, then
Emilie Bellet: you may not have the confidence. You may feel a
Emilie Bellet: bit worried about asking for help, knowing where to go
Emilie Bellet: when you need financial advice. There's also a financial advice gap
Emilie Bellet: in the UK to add to our gaps where most
Emilie Bellet: people are not going to have access to a financial
Emilie Bellet: advisor maybe because they don't have enough money. So there's
Emilie Bellet: a lot of responsibility and personal responsibility to get started
Emilie Bellet: managing your money and investing your money because this is going to
Emilie Bellet: be really important to build financial security and financial independence.
Emilie Bellet: It's not about having more money, it's about having more
Emilie Bellet: money to be able to achieve your goals, to live
Emilie Bellet: the life you want. So I feel this investing piece
Emilie Bellet: is really where I want to help women to just
Emilie Bellet: get started on a very small scale. Now, there's a
Emilie Bellet: lot of platforms on the market where you can invest
Emilie Bellet: your spare change, you can start investing with £ 50 amounts.
Emilie Bellet: So it's getting started into this habit and trying to
Emilie Bellet: understand risk and see risk not necessarily as something that
Emilie Bellet: is bad but risk more as an opportunity. And when
Emilie Bellet: you invest in the stock market and if you have
Emilie Bellet: a pension, your money is invested. So most people don't
Emilie Bellet: actually know that through your workplace pension, you're contributing towards
Emilie Bellet: your future, but your money is going to be invested
Emilie Bellet: in a collection of different companies. It's trying to understand
Emilie Bellet: a little bit more about how the stock market work,
Emilie Bellet: build up this confidence, understand risk, and feel a little
Emilie Bellet: bit more comfortable with this term of investing. And it's
Emilie Bellet: the same as investing in your personal career, in your
Emilie Bellet: personal development where you do a lot of things for
Emilie Bellet: yourself to feel better, but you can do also some
Emilie Bellet: of these things with your finances. And it's starting from
Emilie Bellet: maybe learning a little bit more about money, investing a
Emilie Bellet: little bit. So starting on a very small scale actually
Emilie Bellet: works and it compounds over time, and that's one of
Emilie Bellet: the greatest lessons in investing.
Kia: Absolutely. I think like you mentioned, when it comes to
Kia: investing, you mentioned the Wolf of Wall Street, when you
Kia: think about investing, you think about men on the trading
Kia: floor doing all this. It feels so far away from
Kia: what you could do, especially as a woman. But I
Kia: think alongside all the things that you mentioned there, it's about
Kia: representation as well. So we've mentioned there are a lot of gaps,
Kia: there are a lot of gaps for women out there,
Kia: but as a woman, what can you do to be
Kia: better prepared when it comes to your finances?
Emilie Bellet: Yeah. So I think it takes a little bit more
Emilie Bellet: planning and also thinking about what does money mean to
Emilie Bellet: you. When we think about money, finances, investing, that can
Emilie Bellet: be quite scary and overwhelming and you don't know where
Emilie Bellet: to start. So it is just trying to start with the basics.
Emilie Bellet: And often when we run our courses and boot camps,
Emilie Bellet: we try to have these conversations about money. There's still
Emilie Bellet: such a big taboo around money because they have this lack of
Emilie Bellet: education and money being the thing where it's quite, I
Emilie Bellet: mean, I've always been taught that it's quite impolite to talk
Emilie Bellet: about money, that girls shouldn't talk about money. When you
Emilie Bellet: look at the statistics, girls actually receive 20% less pocket
Emilie Bellet: money than boys. And our money habits come from a
Emilie Bellet: very young age, from age three to 7 years old.
Emilie Bellet: So we sort of grow up with these beliefs around
Emilie Bellet: money. So I think doing a little bit of work
Emilie Bellet: on your money mindset by having a conversation, trying to
Emilie Bellet: write your money story, maybe seeing a money coach also
Emilie Bellet: financial advisors can also help you. But really doing the
Emilie Bellet: work for yourself. And then it's organizing your finances, not being
Emilie Bellet: worried about checking your bank accounts. And I know that's
Emilie Bellet: quite scary for people who never look at their finances.
Emilie Bellet: But on the morning, try to check your bank account
Emilie Bellet: once a day, you'll feel empowered, you know exactly how
Emilie Bellet: much you have. And the same is going to go
Emilie Bellet: for debts, trying to understand how much debt do you
Emilie Bellet: have, how much savings do you have, and try to
Emilie Bellet: understand your basic numbers. So having a little spending plan,
Emilie Bellet: trying to check for the past months, or for the
Emilie Bellet: past three months, how have you been spending your money?
Emilie Bellet: So this is the first part. And then thinking more
Emilie Bellet: broadly about wealth, we all should think about wealth. And
Emilie Bellet: of course, here we're talking financial wealth, but knowing a
Emilie Bellet: few numbers. So maybe trying to calculate your net worth,
Emilie Bellet: which is the sum of all your assets, minus the
Emilie Bellet: sum of your liabilities. If you're quite early in your
Emilie Bellet: working life, and if you have a lot of student debt, you will
Emilie Bellet: have a negative net worth. But that's okay. It's just
Emilie Bellet: a matter of improving this number over time, knowing how
Emilie Bellet: much savings you have. So really knowing these numbers, also
Emilie Bellet: your credit score and writing them down and having maybe
Emilie Bellet: a little date with yourself on your money once a
Emilie Bellet: month. And I'm sure you talk about that also with
Emilie Bellet: your friends and communities, but it's having this regular catch-
Emilie Bellet: up with money, I think is really helpful. And not judging
Emilie Bellet: yourself really, sort of detaching your self- worth from these
Emilie Bellet: numbers. They don't define you, the amount of money you
Emilie Bellet: earn, the amount of debt you have, they're not your
Emilie Bellet: personality. So trying to separate the two, I think is
Emilie Bellet: quite important. But be very realistic about how much money
Emilie Bellet: you have, how much money you don't have, and what are your
Emilie Bellet: goals going forward.
Kia: I love that, especially when you mentioned about net worth.
Kia: I remember I checked my net worth when I was
Kia: in my first year of uni at 18, and I don't
Kia: think I've seen a minor sign as big as that
Kia: when I looked at my net worth. Thankfully it's gone up since
Kia: then, but I find that quite funny. But I love
Kia: the point where you mentioned actually talking to people. I
Kia: think we have this culture in society where we don't
Kia: talk, so things become taboo. And you never know if
Kia: you see your colleagues are any more than you because we
Kia: don't talk about it. And I've made it a thing
Kia: of my own friendship group that us as girls will
Kia: come together and we'll just talk about money. Sometimes it's like, "
Kia: We want to go out here, but girls, I haven't
Kia: got the money this month. So let's be mindful of
Kia: the budget." And having those open conversations make things easier.
Kia: You can bring up, you know what, I'm going to
Kia: go through this pay rise. It just makes that conversation a
Kia: lot easier to have with people. So I think it's
Kia: definitely a good thing to try and incorporate for people.
Kia: So Emilie, when it comes to the cost of kids
Kia: specifically, because that can be a very big cost for a lot of
Kia: parents. How can women and partners financially prepare for this?
Emilie Bellet: Yeah. So I think what I see very often, and I have three
Emilie Bellet: young kids. So for me, building a business, having kids,
Emilie Bellet: living the corporate world, that was a lot. And it
Emilie Bellet: takes a little bit of planning instead of reacting. So
Emilie Bellet: when women are pregnant, they usually think about, " Okay, what's
Emilie Bellet: going to happen to my salary? I will have to
Emilie Bellet: pay for childcare." Childcare in the UK is one of
Emilie Bellet: the most expensive in the world. And when we have
Emilie Bellet: conversation about childcare, women tend to compare their salary with
Emilie Bellet: the cost of childcare. But actually, maybe they have a
Emilie Bellet: partner and they can share this cost with their partner.
Emilie Bellet: So I think it's trying to plan with your partner,
Emilie Bellet: cost of childcare, what do you want to do? Do
Emilie Bellet: you want to go back to work? How much is
Emilie Bellet: it going to cost us? And try to see this
Emilie Bellet: cost of childcare as an investment that will allow you
Emilie Bellet: if you want to to stay in the workforce, if you
Emilie Bellet: want to take some time off, can you also plan
Emilie Bellet: for this time off understanding that you will not earn
Emilie Bellet: any money? So there's also no money that's going to
Emilie Bellet: be put into your savings and into your investment plan.
Emilie Bellet: And a conversation you can have with your partner is
Emilie Bellet: around pensions. So if you're taking time out of work
Emilie Bellet: and that you can have a few kids and then
Emilie Bellet: very easily you're five years out of the workforce or
Emilie Bellet: 10 years and you haven't saved any money. So making
Emilie Bellet: sure maybe your partner knows about that and is helping
Emilie Bellet: you and paying into your pension, or you can help
Emilie Bellet: your partner. So having this thing where you work as
Emilie Bellet: a team and collectively to make sure you build up
Emilie Bellet: financial independence together for your household, but also independently, making
Emilie Bellet: sure you have your own money, you have your own
Emilie Bellet: pension pots because you never know what can happen. And
Emilie Bellet: also when you start having children is how do you
Emilie Bellet: talk about money in the family and how you start
Emilie Bellet: educating your children because as we know early education will
Emilie Bellet: have such a big impact later on in life. So
Emilie Bellet: involving them in basic money decisions, and that can be
Emilie Bellet: budgeting, delayed gratification, saving for something you really like. Also,
Emilie Bellet: when it comes to raising kids, there's important conversations to
Emilie Bellet: have around flexible work and shared parental leave. So it's
Emilie Bellet: important for both partners to maybe be able to take
Emilie Bellet: some time off to spend time with the kids to
Emilie Bellet: make sure the other partner can also stay the workforce.
Emilie Bellet: And the last thing is for parents, for young parents,
Emilie Bellet: when you have children, you should apply and potentially claim
Emilie Bellet: for child benefits. So if you are out the workforce,
Emilie Bellet: you may not be entitled to actually receive a payment,
Emilie Bellet: but you can check that on HMRC, on the governance
Emilie Bellet: website. But actually, can you get your national insurance contribution
Emilie Bellet: to make sure you're not losing out in terms of
Emilie Bellet: your state pension?
Kia: I think that's really good. A lot of good valuable information
Kia: there for people who are parents or becoming parents very
Kia: soon. Emilie, I want to end with the same question
Kia: that I ask every single week. What three tips can
Kia: you give to help people get a little bit richer?
Emilie Bellet: So my first tip is about money mindset. Really try
Emilie Bellet: to understand what does money mean to you, what you
Emilie Bellet: can do for your finances, because we may have so
Emilie Bellet: many limiting beliefs around money. The second one is around
Emilie Bellet: investing. Start investing even on a small scale. And if you have a
Emilie Bellet: pension, check your pension, make sure you're contributing. If you
Emilie Bellet: don't have a pension yet, it's maybe the time to start
Emilie Bellet: figuring out how you can save for your older self
Emilie Bellet: and try to connect with your future self. And my
Emilie Bellet: third tip is learn more about money, become more financially
Emilie Bellet: confident. You can start again on a very small scale
Emilie Bellet: with maybe books, video, courses, podcasts like this one, and
Emilie Bellet: slowly learn the tips, find some guidance, and become more
Emilie Bellet: financially confident.
Kia: Emilie, thank you so much. You have shared so much
Kia: useful information for all of our listeners. And hopefully, this can
Kia: be the starting point, close that gap that we see
Kia: with women to become more empowered with their finances. So thank you so
Kia: much for coming on. Next week I'll be chatting with
Kia: digital nomad Claire Rhodes. Make sure to catch the episode
Kia: to hear all about the exciting prospect of traveling while
Kia: managing work in the UK. In the meantime, follow the
Kia: podcast, leave us a review, and tell a mate. See
Kia: you next week.