1 00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:02,790 Student 1: I was quite bad with procrastinating. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,210 Student 2: I would like to often do overtime at work instead 3 00:00:06,210 --> 00:00:07,740 Student 2: of studying sometimes! 4 00:00:08,010 --> 00:00:10,950 Student 3: Until the fear set in, it was quite hard to motivate myself. 5 00:00:11,130 --> 00:00:15,119 Student 4: Motivation is like your daily coffee. You need to drink 6 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,589 Student 4: it daily in order to make that effect! 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,259 Krutika Adatia: Hello, I'm Krutika Adatia, and I'm a chartered accountant. I now 8 00:00:22,259 --> 00:00:26,310 Krutika Adatia: support accountancy students through their training, and as an educator, 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,130 Krutika Adatia: I'm regularly up close and personal with some of the 10 00:00:29,130 --> 00:00:32,759 Krutika Adatia: common issues people face while studying for and sitting their 11 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:39,240 Krutika Adatia: accountancy exams. So, in this series for the ACCA, I'm chatting to experts about strategies 12 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,598 Krutika Adatia: we can all use when facing some of life's challenges. 13 00:00:43,260 --> 00:00:45,718 Krutika Adatia: And this week, we're looking at something so many of 14 00:00:45,719 --> 00:00:49,559 Krutika Adatia: us struggle with: procrastination, putting off what we know we 15 00:00:49,559 --> 00:00:52,619 Krutika Adatia: should be doing but can't quite bring ourselves to start 16 00:00:52,739 --> 00:00:55,470 Krutika Adatia: or finish. Why is it that so many of us 17 00:00:55,470 --> 00:00:59,910 Krutika Adatia: struggle with procrastination? What's happening in our brains when we procrastinate, 18 00:01:00,390 --> 00:01:03,660 Krutika Adatia: and what strategies can help us improve how we manage 19 00:01:03,660 --> 00:01:07,289 Krutika Adatia: our time? This is On Your Marks, because you'll never 20 00:01:07,289 --> 00:01:11,759 Krutika Adatia: know until you try. With what can sometimes feel like 21 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,750 Krutika Adatia: constant distractions available to us, whether that's TV shows on 22 00:01:15,750 --> 00:01:19,140 Krutika Adatia: demand or texts on your phones, it's no wonder that 23 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,530 Krutika Adatia: a lot of us struggle with procrastinating on tasks. I 24 00:01:22,530 --> 00:01:25,619 Krutika Adatia: know I used to get distracted by notifications on my 25 00:01:25,620 --> 00:01:30,540 Krutika Adatia: phone all the time, whether it's WhatsApp, iMessages, social media, or email. 26 00:01:30,750 --> 00:01:33,240 Krutika Adatia: It would mean I'd start a task, get distracted, and 27 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,050 Krutika Adatia: realize I'd wasted 20 minutes scrolling or being unproductive. I 28 00:01:37,050 --> 00:01:39,988 Krutika Adatia: now have most of the notifications on my phone turned off, 29 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,530 Krutika Adatia: but interestingly, I still find myself turning to my phone 30 00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:46,979 Krutika Adatia: when I'm putting off a task. I'm sure you can relate. So, 31 00:01:46,980 --> 00:01:50,550 Krutika Adatia: with me today to chat about all things procrastination, I've 32 00:01:50,550 --> 00:01:54,720 Krutika Adatia: got Dr. Julia Ravey. She's a neuroscientist, podcast producer, and 33 00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:58,050 Krutika Adatia: author who has recently written a book called Braintenance: A 34 00:01:58,050 --> 00:02:03,900 Krutika Adatia: Scientific Guide to Creating Healthy Habits and Reaching Your Goals. So, Julia, 35 00:02:04,109 --> 00:02:05,669 Krutika Adatia: are you a procrastinator? 36 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,970 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yes, I'm a massive procrastinator. It's always on the things 37 00:02:08,970 --> 00:02:10,710 Dr. Julia Ravey: that really mean a lot to me as well, and 38 00:02:10,710 --> 00:02:13,680 Dr. Julia Ravey: even sometimes things that I'm looking forward to doing in 39 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,599 Dr. Julia Ravey: my head, I'm like, " Oh, I can't wait to get 40 00:02:15,599 --> 00:02:18,059 Dr. Julia Ravey: down and work on that thing," because I know it's 41 00:02:18,059 --> 00:02:20,070 Dr. Julia Ravey: going to bring me the thing that I really want 42 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:22,829 Dr. Julia Ravey: and then I come to do it and it's just like, " Nope, 43 00:02:22,889 --> 00:02:24,600 Dr. Julia Ravey: I don't want to." I remember, I think it was in 44 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,870 Dr. Julia Ravey: my third year of university, my dissertation, it was also something 45 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,960 Dr. Julia Ravey: I really cared about, and I was like, " Oh, I really... 46 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:33,480 Dr. Julia Ravey: I'm excited to dig into that research." But every time I come 47 00:02:33,719 --> 00:02:36,029 Dr. Julia Ravey: to do it, I found it so difficult, and that 48 00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:38,850 Dr. Julia Ravey: was until the very, very last night before my deadline, 49 00:02:39,089 --> 00:02:41,220 Dr. Julia Ravey: I was in the library, I'm not joking, all night. 50 00:02:41,309 --> 00:02:43,560 Dr. Julia Ravey: I wouldn't recommend it. It was like the worst feeling I've 51 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,680 Dr. Julia Ravey: ever felt. I had to drink so much coffee, and 52 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:47,970 Dr. Julia Ravey: I was like, " I just need to get this done 53 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:50,610 Dr. Julia Ravey: because the deadline is tomorrow." The only thing that could 54 00:02:50,610 --> 00:02:53,758 Dr. Julia Ravey: make me do it was that deadline being there. And 55 00:02:53,758 --> 00:02:56,550 Dr. Julia Ravey: I know I could have done even better in that 56 00:02:56,700 --> 00:03:00,329 Dr. Julia Ravey: assignment if I'd just done the work beforehand, but it's 57 00:03:00,329 --> 00:03:02,609 Dr. Julia Ravey: not like a logical thing when you're in that moment, 58 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,560 Dr. Julia Ravey: you know that you should be doing it, but it's 59 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:06,239 Dr. Julia Ravey: so difficult, so difficult. 60 00:03:06,689 --> 00:03:08,669 Krutika Adatia: Do you know what? Firstly, I'm so glad you said you're a 61 00:03:08,669 --> 00:03:12,870 Krutika Adatia: procrastinator because, as someone who's studies the brain, knows a 62 00:03:12,870 --> 00:03:15,059 Krutika Adatia: little bit about it. I was thinking maybe you have 63 00:03:15,059 --> 00:03:18,240 Krutika Adatia: the magic. So, firstly, thank you. You are a procrastinator. 64 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:20,880 Krutika Adatia: It makes me feel a little bit better. So, you 65 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,209 Krutika Adatia: mentioned that, obviously, you had a deadline to work towards. 66 00:03:24,210 --> 00:03:26,459 Krutika Adatia: That's what propelled you to want to get your dissertation 67 00:03:26,460 --> 00:03:29,400 Krutika Adatia: done, but why is it that we procrastinate? 68 00:03:29,429 --> 00:03:32,579 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yeah, I think with procrastination, what it is when it comes 69 00:03:32,580 --> 00:03:35,880 Dr. Julia Ravey: down to the bare bones of it is, it's a decision. 70 00:03:35,969 --> 00:03:38,010 Dr. Julia Ravey: It's a type of choice that we're making, and our 71 00:03:38,010 --> 00:03:40,800 Dr. Julia Ravey: brain is making thousands of decisions every single day. Some 72 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,330 Dr. Julia Ravey: of them you're really conscious of. If you go to 73 00:03:42,330 --> 00:03:44,010 Dr. Julia Ravey: a coffee shop and you're like, " What do I want 74 00:03:44,010 --> 00:03:45,869 Dr. Julia Ravey: to order?" You're thinking, " Oh, I'll have a latte or I'll have 75 00:03:46,020 --> 00:03:49,170 Dr. Julia Ravey: a cappuccino, or whatever." Other things are a bit more unconscious. 76 00:03:49,349 --> 00:03:51,960 Dr. Julia Ravey: The route you take to work, for example, you just go, 77 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:53,490 Dr. Julia Ravey: and sometimes you go, " How did I even get here?" 78 00:03:53,699 --> 00:03:55,410 Dr. Julia Ravey: Your brain has decided which route you're going to take 79 00:03:55,410 --> 00:03:58,050 Dr. Julia Ravey: because you take it all the time. So, I think when 80 00:03:58,050 --> 00:04:00,480 Dr. Julia Ravey: it comes to making a decision, our brain is constantly 81 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,149 Dr. Julia Ravey: doing that. And what it's doing in that moment is, 82 00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:05,700 Dr. Julia Ravey: it's thinking of all the options I could possibly do 83 00:04:06,210 --> 00:04:09,480 Dr. Julia Ravey: and giving each of them a value. And this valuation 84 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:12,990 Dr. Julia Ravey: process can take into account things like that we actually want. So, 85 00:04:13,140 --> 00:04:15,150 Dr. Julia Ravey: if you had a goal of like, " Okay, I really 86 00:04:15,150 --> 00:04:18,120 Dr. Julia Ravey: want to eat more vegetables," and you are at the cafeteria, you look 87 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,309 Dr. Julia Ravey: at the choices on the board, one of the values 88 00:04:20,309 --> 00:04:22,049 Dr. Julia Ravey: that your brain could be thinking is, "Oh, that dish has 89 00:04:22,050 --> 00:04:24,779 Dr. Julia Ravey: got loads of vegetables, so that's going to be good, good." 90 00:04:25,230 --> 00:04:27,240 Dr. Julia Ravey: But there are other things that the brain takes into 91 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,359 Dr. Julia Ravey: account that maybe aren't so much in alignment with what 92 00:04:30,359 --> 00:04:34,500 Dr. Julia Ravey: we consciously might want. So, if you are really hungry or really, 93 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:37,169 Dr. Julia Ravey: really tired that day, you get those carb cravings, and 94 00:04:37,170 --> 00:04:39,000 Dr. Julia Ravey: all of a sudden you're like, " Oh, I want the 95 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,300 Dr. Julia Ravey: dish that's covered in loads of cheese. Give me the cheese." 96 00:04:42,660 --> 00:04:45,570 Dr. Julia Ravey: And that option is given a higher value. Or it 97 00:04:45,570 --> 00:04:48,029 Dr. Julia Ravey: could be as well like the environment around you. So 98 00:04:48,059 --> 00:04:50,130 Dr. Julia Ravey: if you go to the same coffee shop every single day, 99 00:04:50,460 --> 00:04:52,560 Dr. Julia Ravey: you might feel like you just get the regular, your 100 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,600 Dr. Julia Ravey: brain is like, " Oh, we always get that one thing." 101 00:04:54,660 --> 00:04:57,630 Dr. Julia Ravey: So that option is valued higher. So you have basically 102 00:04:57,750 --> 00:05:01,019 Dr. Julia Ravey: your brain constantly making all these calculations as to what 103 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,438 Dr. Julia Ravey: should I value the most. And with procrastination, your choices 104 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,500 Dr. Julia Ravey: basically are, should I do this thing, which is maybe 105 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:10,140 Dr. Julia Ravey: really hard, or maybe it means a lot to me, 106 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:13,979 Dr. Julia Ravey: or should I go and scroll on my phone? Should 107 00:05:13,980 --> 00:05:16,349 Dr. Julia Ravey: I do something which is really relaxing? Should I do 108 00:05:16,349 --> 00:05:18,810 Dr. Julia Ravey: something which is going to feel nice and fun right now? 109 00:05:19,049 --> 00:05:21,210 Dr. Julia Ravey: So it's actually a no- brainer when it comes to 110 00:05:21,210 --> 00:05:22,050 Dr. Julia Ravey: that type of choice. 111 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,299 Krutika Adatia: So that's really interesting what you've just said there. It's 112 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:26,669 Krutika Adatia: helped me to understand what's happening in my brain a 113 00:05:26,670 --> 00:05:29,400 Krutika Adatia: little bit better. So, I know you've alluded to this 114 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:31,440 Krutika Adatia: already and the answers that you've just given, but I'm 115 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:34,738 Krutika Adatia: going to ask, what's happening in our brains when we 116 00:05:34,740 --> 00:05:35,790 Krutika Adatia: are procrastinating? 117 00:05:35,910 --> 00:05:39,659 Dr. Julia Ravey: Procrastination in the brain is a battle. Your brain is 118 00:05:39,660 --> 00:05:41,938 Dr. Julia Ravey: in a battle, and this is particular areas of your 119 00:05:41,940 --> 00:05:44,669 Dr. Julia Ravey: brain are fighting for which choice you should make. So, 120 00:05:44,670 --> 00:05:46,830 Dr. Julia Ravey: you have these areas in the front of your brain 121 00:05:47,010 --> 00:05:51,509 Dr. Julia Ravey: which are more logical, they're concerned with future planning. If 122 00:05:51,510 --> 00:05:53,428 Dr. Julia Ravey: you have long- term goals, that's sort of where it's 123 00:05:53,428 --> 00:05:56,279 Dr. Julia Ravey: making calculations as to what actions you should take to 124 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,709 Dr. Julia Ravey: align with those goals. But then buried a bit deeper 125 00:05:58,709 --> 00:06:02,670 Dr. Julia Ravey: in the brain, we have areas involved in emotions. So 126 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:06,390 Dr. Julia Ravey: these areas are to do with, it could be like fear, sadness, joy, 127 00:06:06,420 --> 00:06:09,990 Dr. Julia Ravey: all of these sorts of emotional responses we have. That area 128 00:06:09,990 --> 00:06:13,469 Dr. Julia Ravey: is also fighting for which choice should be made. So, 129 00:06:13,469 --> 00:06:15,809 Dr. Julia Ravey: in procrastination, you have this battle going on in your 130 00:06:15,809 --> 00:06:19,440 Dr. Julia Ravey: head of the logical areas of the brain versus the 131 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:23,279 Dr. Julia Ravey: emotional areas of the brain. And really, procrastination happens when 132 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,150 Dr. Julia Ravey: either the centres are very, very loud. So if you 133 00:06:27,150 --> 00:06:29,580 Dr. Julia Ravey: sit down to work, you could be thinking right, "I 134 00:06:29,580 --> 00:06:32,279 Dr. Julia Ravey: know right now I do this study session, I'm going 135 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,720 Dr. Julia Ravey: to hopefully pass my exam." So that is the logical centres going, "yes, yes, yes, 136 00:06:36,870 --> 00:06:40,800 Dr. Julia Ravey: do the work." But even that moment, your emotional centres 137 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,710 Dr. Julia Ravey: are saying, " Oh, my goodness, this is so, so hard." 138 00:06:43,740 --> 00:06:46,409 Dr. Julia Ravey: If that is louder than the logical centres, then the 139 00:06:46,410 --> 00:06:48,900 Dr. Julia Ravey: emotion is going to win out. Also, it could happen 140 00:06:49,259 --> 00:06:51,599 Dr. Julia Ravey: the reverse way as well if the logical areas of 141 00:06:51,599 --> 00:06:54,539 Dr. Julia Ravey: the brain, these frontal areas are a bit quieter in 142 00:06:54,540 --> 00:06:57,390 Dr. Julia Ravey: their responses. So say, for example, you go to sit 143 00:06:57,390 --> 00:07:00,060 Dr. Julia Ravey: to do your work, but you don't really have that 144 00:07:00,060 --> 00:07:03,509 Dr. Julia Ravey: sort of long- term goal in mind, you're a bit like, " Well, 145 00:07:03,510 --> 00:07:05,789 Dr. Julia Ravey: what's the point in doing this?" Or the deadline is 146 00:07:05,790 --> 00:07:08,070 Dr. Julia Ravey: far away. If the deadline is far away, you go, " Ah, 147 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,379 Dr. Julia Ravey: it doesn't matter. I can put this off till tomorrow." 148 00:07:11,309 --> 00:07:15,330 Dr. Julia Ravey: If you don't have that long- term logical focus, then 149 00:07:16,050 --> 00:07:18,240 Dr. Julia Ravey: the emotional centres could win out again because that is 150 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,510 Dr. Julia Ravey: a weaker signal. So, really, when we are procrastinating, we are 151 00:07:21,719 --> 00:07:25,709 Dr. Julia Ravey: in this battle between logic and emotion, and that's what's 152 00:07:25,710 --> 00:07:27,389 Dr. Julia Ravey: going on in our brains, and all of us will 153 00:07:27,389 --> 00:07:30,210 Dr. Julia Ravey: procrastinate a little bit more or a little bit less than each other. 154 00:07:30,510 --> 00:07:32,850 Dr. Julia Ravey: All our brains are unique, so some people might find 155 00:07:32,850 --> 00:07:35,280 Dr. Julia Ravey: it easier to exert the self- control. Some people might 156 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,190 Dr. Julia Ravey: find it a little bit tougher just because of our genetics, 157 00:07:38,190 --> 00:07:41,309 Dr. Julia Ravey: our experiences. So each of us will have a tendency 158 00:07:41,309 --> 00:07:44,310 Dr. Julia Ravey: to procrastinate more or less than each other as well. So, 159 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:46,769 Dr. Julia Ravey: I'd say procrastination is something that you're always going to 160 00:07:46,770 --> 00:07:49,650 Dr. Julia Ravey: come up against, and it's not something that you should 161 00:07:49,650 --> 00:07:52,440 Dr. Julia Ravey: take as, " I don't care about what I'm doing," or 162 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,390 Dr. Julia Ravey: not something you should take as like, " Oh, I'm rubbish 163 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,059 Dr. Julia Ravey: as being a student or trying to study." It's something 164 00:07:57,059 --> 00:07:59,099 Dr. Julia Ravey: that we're all going to face because it is this 165 00:07:59,099 --> 00:08:01,920 Dr. Julia Ravey: decision point and it's just the brain working as it should. 166 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,849 Krutika Adatia: Amazing. So just so I hear you correctly, you're talking 167 00:08:05,850 --> 00:08:09,570 Krutika Adatia: about the emotional part of your brain kind of being 168 00:08:09,570 --> 00:08:12,360 Krutika Adatia: in a little bit more overdrive than the frontal logical 169 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:13,590 Krutika Adatia: part of your brain? 170 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:16,349 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yeah, that's it, because if you think about a task 171 00:08:16,349 --> 00:08:18,959 Dr. Julia Ravey: that we procrastinate on, a lot of the times there 172 00:08:19,020 --> 00:08:23,340 Dr. Julia Ravey: is sort of emotion loaded there because often it means 173 00:08:23,340 --> 00:08:25,080 Dr. Julia Ravey: a lot to us. So that is something which can 174 00:08:25,109 --> 00:08:28,710 Dr. Julia Ravey: be quite emotionally intense. Also, it could be something which 175 00:08:28,710 --> 00:08:32,520 Dr. Julia Ravey: is quite difficult and hard and stressful. So what that's creating 176 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,520 Dr. Julia Ravey: in the brain is sort of emotional discomfort and uncertainty. 177 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:38,519 Dr. Julia Ravey: The brain does not uncertainty or discomfort. It will try 178 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,740 Dr. Julia Ravey: to escape it, but also when you come to do 179 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:44,160 Dr. Julia Ravey: a task as well, it could be factors outside of 180 00:08:44,250 --> 00:08:46,320 Dr. Julia Ravey: just the task itself. It could be that you haven't 181 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:48,870 Dr. Julia Ravey: slept well that night. It could be that you're hungry. 182 00:08:48,870 --> 00:08:51,780 Dr. Julia Ravey: It could be that there are other things in your life that are going on, which means 183 00:08:51,780 --> 00:08:54,509 Dr. Julia Ravey: those emotional centers are on a bit more of a high alert, 184 00:08:54,569 --> 00:08:58,739 Dr. Julia Ravey: and that makes it harder to exert that control. So, I think, yeah, 185 00:08:58,740 --> 00:09:00,750 Dr. Julia Ravey: when you sit down to procrastinate, when you sit down 186 00:09:00,750 --> 00:09:03,510 Dr. Julia Ravey: to work, that is going to be something that comes 187 00:09:03,510 --> 00:09:06,600 Dr. Julia Ravey: up more often than you might anticipate. 188 00:09:06,870 --> 00:09:10,500 Krutika Adatia: That's really fascinating. So, I guess the emotions that you 189 00:09:10,500 --> 00:09:14,218 Krutika Adatia: are describing are they essentially what lead us to not 190 00:09:14,219 --> 00:09:16,920 Krutika Adatia: wanting to get started with something? So, how is it 191 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,220 Krutika Adatia: that we get over that initial hump of wanting to 192 00:09:20,220 --> 00:09:23,790 Krutika Adatia: get started with something, and how does motivation feed into 193 00:09:23,970 --> 00:09:24,780 Krutika Adatia: that as well? 194 00:09:24,839 --> 00:09:27,420 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yeah, I think a lot of us have probably felt 195 00:09:27,420 --> 00:09:30,780 Dr. Julia Ravey: this before. It's almost like the fear of starting something 196 00:09:30,780 --> 00:09:33,149 Dr. Julia Ravey: is worse than actually doing it, and you build it 197 00:09:33,150 --> 00:09:34,979 Dr. Julia Ravey: up in your head to be this huge thing, and 198 00:09:34,980 --> 00:09:37,439 Dr. Julia Ravey: once you actually do it, you go, "Oh, it wasn't that bad." So, what 199 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,690 Dr. Julia Ravey: we want to do is try and get over that 200 00:09:40,020 --> 00:09:42,900 Dr. Julia Ravey: initial hump to sort of show to ourselves, " Look, it's 201 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:44,819 Dr. Julia Ravey: not that scary. It's not that hard, it's not that bad." 202 00:09:45,090 --> 00:09:47,219 Dr. Julia Ravey: So what I like to do is try and think 203 00:09:47,219 --> 00:09:50,789 Dr. Julia Ravey: of something really, really small that I can do as 204 00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:53,458 Dr. Julia Ravey: sort of a starter task. So, for example, if I 205 00:09:53,458 --> 00:09:57,150 Dr. Julia Ravey: was trying to write an essay, my starter task would be, " 206 00:09:57,179 --> 00:10:00,030 Dr. Julia Ravey: Okay, I'm just going to write three sentences." That, I 207 00:10:00,030 --> 00:10:02,400 Dr. Julia Ravey: think, gives you a long enough time to sort of 208 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:04,889 Dr. Julia Ravey: try and get into something but three sentences. I mean, 209 00:10:04,889 --> 00:10:07,049 Dr. Julia Ravey: in your brain, you go, " I can write three sentences." Come 210 00:10:07,049 --> 00:10:08,790 Dr. Julia Ravey: on, you're not thinking I'm going to write a thousand 211 00:10:08,790 --> 00:10:11,789 Dr. Julia Ravey: words. You think three sentences, that's great. If you're sitting 212 00:10:11,789 --> 00:10:14,160 Dr. Julia Ravey: down to do a practice math problem, you say, " I'm 213 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,710 Dr. Julia Ravey: going to do one problem, and that's it." And after 214 00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:19,770 Dr. Julia Ravey: that, I can stop if I want to. But I find, nine 215 00:10:19,770 --> 00:10:22,410 Dr. Julia Ravey: times out of 10, once you actually start doing it and 216 00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:24,660 Dr. Julia Ravey: get into it, you will keep going. So it's nice 217 00:10:24,660 --> 00:10:27,000 Dr. Julia Ravey: to have a mini- goal to sort of get you 218 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,488 Dr. Julia Ravey: going. I always find to get over. Then, when it 219 00:10:29,490 --> 00:10:33,150 Dr. Julia Ravey: comes to motivation... Motivation, I have a funny relationship with it because 220 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,000 Dr. Julia Ravey: I think it's a great thing when you have it. 221 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,779 Dr. Julia Ravey: When you feel that motivation wave, you are riding it, 222 00:10:39,929 --> 00:10:43,590 Dr. Julia Ravey: New Year's resolution, that type of vibe. It feels amazing 223 00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:46,020 Dr. Julia Ravey: to have motivation and you're doing your work and you 224 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:49,590 Dr. Julia Ravey: feel great, but if you don't have motivation, then you 225 00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:52,770 Dr. Julia Ravey: feel really, really rubbish, and it can almost be read 226 00:10:52,770 --> 00:10:55,679 Dr. Julia Ravey: as a sign for your brain of, 'Oh, I don't have 227 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,750 Dr. Julia Ravey: motivation, therefore I don't want to do it, or therefore 228 00:10:57,750 --> 00:11:00,389 Dr. Julia Ravey: I can't do it." So, I think with motivation, you 229 00:11:00,389 --> 00:11:04,020 Dr. Julia Ravey: should see it as an emotion. Sometimes it's high, sometimes 230 00:11:04,020 --> 00:11:07,860 Dr. Julia Ravey: it's low, it's not always going to be there. So, 231 00:11:07,980 --> 00:11:12,059 Dr. Julia Ravey: I would say what is quite important with revision and 232 00:11:12,059 --> 00:11:15,300 Dr. Julia Ravey: trying to get into a routine and not procrastinate is 233 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:18,509 Dr. Julia Ravey: to say, " Right, I'm going to study short amount of 234 00:11:18,509 --> 00:11:20,728 Dr. Julia Ravey: time, but I'm going to do it consistently." So that 235 00:11:20,730 --> 00:11:23,190 Dr. Julia Ravey: could be, it's going to be every weekday at, I 236 00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:25,680 Dr. Julia Ravey: don't know, nine in the morning. And so, you have a little slot, 237 00:11:25,710 --> 00:11:27,838 Dr. Julia Ravey: it's almost like an appointment in your diary. You have 238 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,790 Dr. Julia Ravey: a little slot there, and you show up and do 239 00:11:29,790 --> 00:11:32,790 Dr. Julia Ravey: it. And if motivation's there, great, you might want to 240 00:11:32,790 --> 00:11:34,590 Dr. Julia Ravey: go a little bit longer. If it's not there, you 241 00:11:34,590 --> 00:11:37,679 Dr. Julia Ravey: turn up, you do your small little task, you try and keep going 242 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,089 Dr. Julia Ravey: a little bit, but if you can't, you've done your 243 00:11:39,089 --> 00:11:41,279 Dr. Julia Ravey: small task and you move on, and you show up the 244 00:11:41,279 --> 00:11:44,550 Dr. Julia Ravey: next day. And I think it is about that repetition to 245 00:11:44,550 --> 00:11:46,440 Dr. Julia Ravey: really drill it into your routine. 246 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,590 Krutika Adatia: That's refreshing to hear that motivation is just an emotion, 247 00:11:49,590 --> 00:11:52,320 Krutika Adatia: because often you think that if you want to pursue 248 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,348 Krutika Adatia: something, that innate motivation has got to be there. So that's 249 00:11:55,349 --> 00:11:58,199 Krutika Adatia: really quite refreshing to hear. And you spoke about blocking 250 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,830 Krutika Adatia: out time to complete these small tasks. So how important 251 00:12:01,830 --> 00:12:03,151 Krutika Adatia: is time management in all of this as well? 252 00:12:03,151 --> 00:12:07,140 Dr. Julia Ravey: I think time management is a funny one because when it comes 253 00:12:07,140 --> 00:12:10,468 Dr. Julia Ravey: to procrastination, I think time management can help, but I 254 00:12:10,469 --> 00:12:15,958 Dr. Julia Ravey: think the problem actually is emotional management. So with time 255 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,389 Dr. Julia Ravey: management, it's like, " Okay, I've got my diary, I'm going 256 00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:21,600 Dr. Julia Ravey: to block things out." But we all know that if your 257 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,160 Dr. Julia Ravey: heads are in the right space, you could have the 258 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,920 Dr. Julia Ravey: perfect diary, color coordinated, bam, bam, bam, I've got it 259 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,990 Dr. Julia Ravey: all in there. If your head's not in the game, 260 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,078 Dr. Julia Ravey: you will just not do it. So, I think with procrastination, it 261 00:12:31,290 --> 00:12:35,250 Dr. Julia Ravey: is about being able to override that emotional discomfort that 262 00:12:35,250 --> 00:12:37,319 Dr. Julia Ravey: you feel. So with the small little tasks we were 263 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,450 Dr. Julia Ravey: talking about getting over the hump, and there are other 264 00:12:39,450 --> 00:12:41,910 Dr. Julia Ravey: little methods that I definitely have in my back pocket, 265 00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:44,639 Dr. Julia Ravey: which can help, but time management can help. I'd say 266 00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:47,610 Dr. Julia Ravey: with that because a lot of the time with these tasks, 267 00:12:47,610 --> 00:12:51,478 Dr. Julia Ravey: we procrastinate on a big negative emotion we feel is 268 00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:54,328 Dr. Julia Ravey: overwhelm. You can look at it and go, " Oh my 269 00:12:54,330 --> 00:12:57,270 Dr. Julia Ravey: goodness, I've got a whole syllabus to learn for this 270 00:12:57,270 --> 00:12:59,640 Dr. Julia Ravey: exam. I need to know all of these different things. 271 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,830 Dr. Julia Ravey: I don't know any of them." And that overwhelm can 272 00:13:01,830 --> 00:13:03,809 Dr. Julia Ravey: drive us to just not want to do it. So I would 273 00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:06,719 Dr. Julia Ravey: say with time management, the way we can help get 274 00:13:06,719 --> 00:13:10,170 Dr. Julia Ravey: rid of that emotional sort of overwhelm is to break it 275 00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:14,700 Dr. Julia Ravey: down. Take your syllabus and break every topic down into 276 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:20,069 Dr. Julia Ravey: subtopics, even subsubtopics if you want to, and then sit and put them 277 00:13:20,070 --> 00:13:23,399 Dr. Julia Ravey: into your diary of what you're going to do exactly 278 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,349 Dr. Julia Ravey: on that day. You could do this if you have 279 00:13:25,349 --> 00:13:26,699 Dr. Julia Ravey: an exam coming up, you could do it for a 280 00:13:26,700 --> 00:13:29,699 Dr. Julia Ravey: whole syllabus, or you could do it week by week 281 00:13:29,699 --> 00:13:31,320 Dr. Julia Ravey: if that's a little bit more how you feel. You 282 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:32,850 Dr. Julia Ravey: could sit on a Sunday and go, " Right, what am 283 00:13:32,850 --> 00:13:34,770 Dr. Julia Ravey: I doing each day this week?" But you've got your 284 00:13:34,770 --> 00:13:36,630 Dr. Julia Ravey: list there, and that means that when you show up 285 00:13:36,690 --> 00:13:39,150 Dr. Julia Ravey: to do your work, you are not having to go, " 286 00:13:39,150 --> 00:13:41,130 Dr. Julia Ravey: Oh my god, I'm so overwhelmed, what should I do?" 287 00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:42,929 Dr. Julia Ravey: You've got it there in front of you already, so 288 00:13:43,650 --> 00:13:46,199 Dr. Julia Ravey: that takes out something off the table already, right? Today, 289 00:13:46,199 --> 00:13:49,049 Dr. Julia Ravey: I'm studying this one thing. So I think that's how 290 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:51,450 Dr. Julia Ravey: time management can really help us. And then showing up 291 00:13:51,450 --> 00:13:54,478 Dr. Julia Ravey: again repeatedly over and over again. You want to get 292 00:13:54,570 --> 00:13:56,880 Dr. Julia Ravey: your study routine almost to be a bit like brushing 293 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,150 Dr. Julia Ravey: your teeth, something you just do, no drama. You just 294 00:14:00,150 --> 00:14:02,699 Dr. Julia Ravey: show up, and you do it. And I think because 295 00:14:03,420 --> 00:14:06,780 Dr. Julia Ravey: the connotations of studying and what it can lead to 296 00:14:07,139 --> 00:14:08,970 Dr. Julia Ravey: has such a big, " Oh my god, this could change 297 00:14:08,970 --> 00:14:12,030 Dr. Julia Ravey: my life because it could." But if you just take it as 298 00:14:12,030 --> 00:14:15,750 Dr. Julia Ravey: like, okay, I'm just going to go to my desk today, show up, and I'm going 299 00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:18,300 Dr. Julia Ravey: to do my work. If you have no drama, it's 300 00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:20,850 Dr. Julia Ravey: much, much easier to do. So time management can help 301 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,249 Dr. Julia Ravey: with that emotional management side of stuff, definitely, it can 302 00:14:23,250 --> 00:14:26,340 Dr. Julia Ravey: just remove some of that intensity around the situation. 303 00:14:26,490 --> 00:14:28,740 Krutika Adatia: I like that. So you've really tied that into just 304 00:14:28,740 --> 00:14:32,280 Krutika Adatia: planning out things so that as a student, let's say, 305 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,040 Krutika Adatia: listening to this, they're thinking right, need to get on, book 306 00:14:35,309 --> 00:14:37,770 Krutika Adatia: my exam, right I've got the exam, here's my syllabus, 307 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,680 Krutika Adatia: let's break it down. This week, I'm covering this. That's 308 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,790 Krutika Adatia: a fantastic actionable step to take away. Now, you mentioned 309 00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:49,530 Krutika Adatia: routines as well there. So with routines, not everyone finds 310 00:14:49,530 --> 00:14:53,070 Krutika Adatia: it easy, right? Julia, so what are your tips and 311 00:14:53,070 --> 00:14:56,880 Krutika Adatia: advice around setting routines? What are the best practices around 312 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:57,780 Krutika Adatia: that as well? 313 00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:00,840 Dr. Julia Ravey: I think routines are hard because people look at the 314 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,720 Dr. Julia Ravey: way of routine and go, " Oh, so boring. Oh, so 315 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,500 Dr. Julia Ravey: boring." But I think boring is sometimes good. Brushing your 316 00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:10,860 Dr. Julia Ravey: teeth isn't fun, but you do it every day. So having 317 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:13,020 Dr. Julia Ravey: a bit of boredom is actually quite good. It's better 318 00:15:13,020 --> 00:15:14,610 Dr. Julia Ravey: to be a bit bored than have a lot of 319 00:15:14,610 --> 00:15:17,699 Dr. Julia Ravey: drama around it. But the thing with routine, which is 320 00:15:17,699 --> 00:15:21,180 Dr. Julia Ravey: difficult, is life. So you could have the most perfect 321 00:15:21,180 --> 00:15:23,670 Dr. Julia Ravey: routine that you think in your mind that something happens 322 00:15:23,730 --> 00:15:25,500 Dr. Julia Ravey: in your life and that gets all thrown out the 323 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:28,500 Dr. Julia Ravey: window. So I think what's important is to look at 324 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:32,759 Dr. Julia Ravey: your diary, keep your revision time to be a sort 325 00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:37,200 Dr. Julia Ravey: of short- ish period that, if you could extend it, you could. 326 00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:39,090 Dr. Julia Ravey: I'd say it's better to do it over a longer 327 00:15:39,090 --> 00:15:41,790 Dr. Julia Ravey: period of time, short bursts every day than try and 328 00:15:41,790 --> 00:15:44,370 Dr. Julia Ravey: cram and feel like you've got a cram all in 329 00:15:44,370 --> 00:15:46,770 Dr. Julia Ravey: the last minute. So I would say look for a 330 00:15:46,770 --> 00:15:49,080 Dr. Julia Ravey: short amount of time, and which window could you fit 331 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:52,320 Dr. Julia Ravey: it in your day? Some people might think, " Oh, I've 332 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,880 Dr. Julia Ravey: got kids. I've got a job where time always overruns." 333 00:15:57,420 --> 00:16:00,960 Dr. Julia Ravey: I think, where in your day could you fit that 334 00:16:01,170 --> 00:16:03,990 Dr. Julia Ravey: 20 minutes or something like that? Get it in there, 335 00:16:04,260 --> 00:16:06,809 Dr. Julia Ravey: and consistently show up and do it over and over 336 00:16:06,809 --> 00:16:08,309 Dr. Julia Ravey: again as much as you can. Now, it's not going 337 00:16:08,309 --> 00:16:10,379 Dr. Julia Ravey: to happen every single day, but I think if it 338 00:16:10,379 --> 00:16:12,690 Dr. Julia Ravey: doesn't happen one day, dust yourself off, and the next day, 339 00:16:12,690 --> 00:16:15,360 Dr. Julia Ravey: just try again. If you find it's not working for 340 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,600 Dr. Julia Ravey: you, experiment, it doesn't have to be, " Okay, I've picked 341 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,340 Dr. Julia Ravey: nine, and that's what I've got to stick to." No, 342 00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:24,090 Dr. Julia Ravey: experiment with it as well. And I would say, really 343 00:16:24,090 --> 00:16:28,229 Dr. Julia Ravey: think about when you work best. We all know when 344 00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:30,870 Dr. Julia Ravey: we work best. I think, I know for me the 345 00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:34,860 Dr. Julia Ravey: morning is my time, but if I'm not in the 346 00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:37,950 Dr. Julia Ravey: right zone, I will stay up too late, be watching 347 00:16:37,950 --> 00:16:40,679 Dr. Julia Ravey: that Netflix, watching that TV, and then the next morning 348 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:42,299 Dr. Julia Ravey: I'm too tired to get up, and then I miss 349 00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,179 Dr. Julia Ravey: my time where I would be studying. So it's about looking 350 00:16:45,179 --> 00:16:48,149 Dr. Julia Ravey: at your entire day and thinking, " If I went to 351 00:16:48,150 --> 00:16:50,310 Dr. Julia Ravey: bed half an hour earlier, that means I could get up a bit earlier 352 00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:53,340 Dr. Julia Ravey: and do it then." So I would say experiment, have 353 00:16:53,340 --> 00:16:54,750 Dr. Julia Ravey: a bit of fun with it, play around with it, 354 00:16:54,750 --> 00:16:57,990 Dr. Julia Ravey: and see where it fits into your day. And if 355 00:16:57,990 --> 00:17:01,020 Dr. Julia Ravey: it's a little bit boring, as in, you're showing up to the same 356 00:17:01,020 --> 00:17:03,329 Dr. Julia Ravey: thing every day, I think that's not a bad thing. 357 00:17:03,539 --> 00:17:06,299 Krutika Adatia: Okay. So it's a case of figuring out what works best for 358 00:17:06,300 --> 00:17:07,800 Krutika Adatia: you, and like you say everyone, it's going to be 359 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,740 Krutika Adatia: unique for everyone. I just want to circle back to something 360 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:13,530 Krutika Adatia: you said about sort of cramming and this idea that, 361 00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:16,679 Krutika Adatia: especially with students, there tends to be that tendency to 362 00:17:16,679 --> 00:17:20,188 Krutika Adatia: cram. And you also mentioned something about potentially giving yourself 363 00:17:20,190 --> 00:17:24,510 Krutika Adatia: a break. How important is it to also take breaks, and 364 00:17:24,780 --> 00:17:28,708 Krutika Adatia: how does that feed into procrastination? Do you have any thoughts 365 00:17:28,710 --> 00:17:29,158 Krutika Adatia: on that? 366 00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:32,369 Dr. Julia Ravey: I think it's vital. Taking a break is so important 367 00:17:32,369 --> 00:17:34,829 Dr. Julia Ravey: for your brain to digest the information that you're trying 368 00:17:34,830 --> 00:17:38,279 Dr. Julia Ravey: to remember. And the brilliant thing about our brains is, 369 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,949 Dr. Julia Ravey: the more you repeat and go over stuff, the more 370 00:17:40,949 --> 00:17:43,800 Dr. Julia Ravey: it's going to remember and retain that information. So if 371 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,138 Dr. Julia Ravey: you give yourself a really good run- up time for 372 00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:48,450 Dr. Julia Ravey: an exam and you do a little bit each day 373 00:17:48,510 --> 00:17:50,580 Dr. Julia Ravey: and then you are covering that material over and over 374 00:17:50,580 --> 00:17:52,740 Dr. Julia Ravey: again in little bites, then you are going to retain 375 00:17:52,740 --> 00:17:55,679 Dr. Julia Ravey: that much better. If you are trying to cram what you're trying 376 00:17:55,679 --> 00:17:58,440 Dr. Julia Ravey: to do there is keep all of this brand new information 377 00:17:58,830 --> 00:18:00,718 Dr. Julia Ravey: in these sort of frontal parts of your brain where 378 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,300 Dr. Julia Ravey: we have our short- term sort of memory, it doesn't 379 00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:06,060 Dr. Julia Ravey: have really enough time to sink into that nice long- 380 00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:09,240 Dr. Julia Ravey: term memory. It's still too fresh. So I would always 381 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:12,569 Dr. Julia Ravey: say, the longer run- up you can get, the better, so you 382 00:18:12,570 --> 00:18:15,449 Dr. Julia Ravey: can cover the material over and over again. And taking 383 00:18:15,450 --> 00:18:18,359 Dr. Julia Ravey: breaks too, like your brain needs the break to be 384 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,090 Dr. Julia Ravey: able to like, " Oh, that idea just clicks together." You 385 00:18:21,090 --> 00:18:22,770 Dr. Julia Ravey: always have your best ideas when you're in the shower, 386 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,109 Dr. Julia Ravey: when you're on a walk, that's because your brain is 387 00:18:25,109 --> 00:18:27,418 Dr. Julia Ravey: in a different zone to when you're focusing on, " I 388 00:18:27,420 --> 00:18:30,240 Dr. Julia Ravey: need to learn this information." It allows those connections to 389 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,790 Dr. Julia Ravey: sort of, " Oh, that fits with that, that fits with 390 00:18:32,790 --> 00:18:34,740 Dr. Julia Ravey: that," and things just click and start to make sense. 391 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,710 Dr. Julia Ravey: So, breaks are vital, and if you don't take breaks, 392 00:18:38,369 --> 00:18:41,520 Dr. Julia Ravey: those emotional centers will be screaming. So when you come 393 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,510 Dr. Julia Ravey: to do work, procrastination is probably going to happen more often if 394 00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:47,609 Dr. Julia Ravey: you haven't given yourself any time off. 395 00:18:47,638 --> 00:18:49,648 Krutika Adatia: Okay, so what I'm hearing you say is that, as 396 00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:52,740 Krutika Adatia: part of your planning, you ought to factor in some breaks 397 00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:53,520 Krutika Adatia: there as well. 398 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,890 Dr. Julia Ravey: Plan your breaks like your study, I'd say, because it's 399 00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:57,540 Dr. Julia Ravey: so easy to be like, " Oh, I've got to do 400 00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:59,760 Dr. Julia Ravey: this task today, this task," and then you don't put 401 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,429 Dr. Julia Ravey: in any time to break and you'll have some empty gaps 402 00:19:02,429 --> 00:19:04,559 Dr. Julia Ravey: in your schedule. But then the empty gaps that can 403 00:19:04,559 --> 00:19:06,359 Dr. Julia Ravey: all of a sudden run into, " Oh, I have to do this, 404 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,908 Dr. Julia Ravey: or I could keep working and I could..." Guilt- free breaks, 405 00:19:08,910 --> 00:19:10,468 Dr. Julia Ravey: you want to put them in there, and you go, " Ah, 406 00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:12,029 Dr. Julia Ravey: this is my two hours where I'm going to just 407 00:19:12,029 --> 00:19:14,850 Dr. Julia Ravey: chill and no pressure." During university, I would do that. 408 00:19:14,850 --> 00:19:16,920 Dr. Julia Ravey: I would work really early in the morning. I would 409 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,440 Dr. Julia Ravey: finish by half three, four, and I wouldn't think about work. 410 00:19:20,490 --> 00:19:22,049 Dr. Julia Ravey: I think if you have it, you do it, you 411 00:19:22,050 --> 00:19:25,438 Dr. Julia Ravey: let your brain relax, let all that sink in, and 412 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,900 Dr. Julia Ravey: go from there. So yeah, definitely schedule breaks. 413 00:19:28,138 --> 00:19:32,100 Krutika Adatia: Yeah, so with ACCA, we have students that will book 414 00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:34,890 Krutika Adatia: their exams, and generally they'll have a 12 to 13- 415 00:19:34,890 --> 00:19:38,790 Krutika Adatia: week window, and within that 12 to 13- week window, we often 416 00:19:38,790 --> 00:19:41,460 Krutika Adatia: tell our students that they ought to have some time 417 00:19:41,460 --> 00:19:45,149 Krutika Adatia: for planning, and then studying, and then practice. Granted, there's 418 00:19:45,150 --> 00:19:48,209 Krutika Adatia: an overlap between the studying and the practice, but does 419 00:19:48,209 --> 00:19:51,690 Krutika Adatia: that generally fit in with the recommendations and advice that 420 00:19:51,690 --> 00:19:54,359 Krutika Adatia: you've been giving us through this conversation today, Julia? 421 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,420 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yeah, I think that is really good, the planning that takes 422 00:19:57,420 --> 00:19:59,490 Dr. Julia Ravey: out that drama because you know what you're going to 423 00:19:59,490 --> 00:20:02,519 Dr. Julia Ravey: do, and I actually really enjoy the planning. I sit 424 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,260 Dr. Julia Ravey: with a cup of tea and I'm like, " Oh, let's 425 00:20:04,260 --> 00:20:06,750 Dr. Julia Ravey: map out my weeks." And yeah, I really enjoy that. 426 00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:08,310 Dr. Julia Ravey: So if you're planning in advance, that means when you 427 00:20:08,310 --> 00:20:12,030 Dr. Julia Ravey: show up to do the studying, you know exactly what 428 00:20:12,030 --> 00:20:14,670 Dr. Julia Ravey: you need to do. And then, with the studying, you 429 00:20:14,670 --> 00:20:17,249 Dr. Julia Ravey: have these little, tiny mini- goals almost to tick off 430 00:20:17,250 --> 00:20:19,080 Dr. Julia Ravey: as you go along, which is a really nice thing for your 431 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,990 Dr. Julia Ravey: brain to have. I think when we procrastinate sometimes as 432 00:20:21,990 --> 00:20:25,260 Dr. Julia Ravey: well, it's because we don't have a big reward when 433 00:20:25,260 --> 00:20:27,720 Dr. Julia Ravey: we go to do say a study session, but if 434 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,020 Dr. Julia Ravey: you have today I'm going to do syllabus, section one 435 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:34,650 Dr. Julia Ravey: A, B, or whatever it is, then you have a nice 436 00:20:34,650 --> 00:20:36,869 Dr. Julia Ravey: thing to tick off, you've got something like I've completed 437 00:20:36,869 --> 00:20:39,509 Dr. Julia Ravey: that rather than just like, " Oh, I need to revise again today." 438 00:20:39,509 --> 00:20:42,240 Dr. Julia Ravey: You don't have any element of reward or satisfaction with 439 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,580 Dr. Julia Ravey: that. So I think having the studying has broken down 440 00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:47,280 Dr. Julia Ravey: into little bits that's really helpful for giving you a 441 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,099 Dr. Julia Ravey: little bit of motivation. And then, with the practice, the 442 00:20:50,099 --> 00:20:53,969 Dr. Julia Ravey: brain loves repetition for remembering stuff, so practicing things over 443 00:20:53,969 --> 00:20:57,390 Dr. Julia Ravey: and over again, that it really sink into your memory 444 00:20:57,509 --> 00:20:59,248 Dr. Julia Ravey: when it comes to the exam. You'll be able to 445 00:20:59,250 --> 00:21:01,800 Dr. Julia Ravey: hopefully retain that information and get it out. 446 00:21:01,859 --> 00:21:03,898 Krutika Adatia: That sounds great. And actually, just something I want to 447 00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:05,940 Krutika Adatia: call out as well is, the ACCA do have a 448 00:21:05,940 --> 00:21:08,938 Krutika Adatia: digital tool. It's a planning tool called Compass, and we're 449 00:21:08,940 --> 00:21:11,429 Krutika Adatia: often encouraging students to do that. So it's really nice 450 00:21:11,429 --> 00:21:15,540 Krutika Adatia: that you've called out that we should have mini subtasks 451 00:21:15,540 --> 00:21:18,060 Krutika Adatia: that students can tick off, and our Compass planner allows 452 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:21,359 Krutika Adatia: students to do that as well. So just to think 453 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,910 Krutika Adatia: about, you mentioned good habits earlier as well. Are there 454 00:21:23,910 --> 00:21:26,999 Krutika Adatia: any tips about students being able to form good habits 455 00:21:27,388 --> 00:21:29,490 Krutika Adatia: and good study habits in general as well? 456 00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:33,029 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yeah, I'd say the things we've spoken about, showing up 457 00:21:33,030 --> 00:21:34,709 Dr. Julia Ravey: at the same time every day, that's something which is 458 00:21:34,709 --> 00:21:37,379 Dr. Julia Ravey: good because it becomes part of your routine. I'd say 459 00:21:37,380 --> 00:21:40,410 Dr. Julia Ravey: something we don't really consider when we are forming new 460 00:21:40,410 --> 00:21:45,388 Dr. Julia Ravey: habits is our environment. What is around us? And that is something 461 00:21:45,388 --> 00:21:48,420 Dr. Julia Ravey: that I found personally in my life. If I go 462 00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:50,940 Dr. Julia Ravey: back to my family home and I try to get up 463 00:21:50,969 --> 00:21:53,729 Dr. Julia Ravey: early in the morning, I find it so difficult because I'm in my 464 00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:57,448 Dr. Julia Ravey: teenage bedroom, where I'm used to sleeping in until 11: 00, 12:00. 465 00:21:57,660 --> 00:21:59,398 Dr. Julia Ravey: It's funny, when I'm at my normal house, I can 466 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,560 Dr. Julia Ravey: get up early and work, but I think just think 467 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,540 Dr. Julia Ravey: about what's around you. What have you done in this 468 00:22:03,540 --> 00:22:07,080 Dr. Julia Ravey: space before? Is this the desk where you always procrastinate? 469 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,509 Dr. Julia Ravey: Why didn't we try and work somewhere else? Or am 470 00:22:09,509 --> 00:22:11,908 Dr. Julia Ravey: I trying to work on the couch, where I normally 471 00:22:11,910 --> 00:22:13,710 Dr. Julia Ravey: chill? Your brain's not going to be in the right 472 00:22:13,710 --> 00:22:15,990 Dr. Julia Ravey: space, so think of your environment. And another great thing 473 00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:20,130 Dr. Julia Ravey: I like is to have almost like a specific cue 474 00:22:20,369 --> 00:22:23,490 Dr. Julia Ravey: that can help you revise. So something, for example, like 475 00:22:23,820 --> 00:22:26,579 Dr. Julia Ravey: a candle you only light when you do your revision, 476 00:22:27,030 --> 00:22:30,420 Dr. Julia Ravey: that will give you almost like an initiator of it's 477 00:22:30,450 --> 00:22:33,060 Dr. Julia Ravey: time to revise. Your brain will sort of be capturing 478 00:22:33,060 --> 00:22:35,638 Dr. Julia Ravey: that information of... Maybe it's the candle itself or the 479 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,789 Dr. Julia Ravey: smell that it has, that it's like, " Oh, I know 480 00:22:38,790 --> 00:22:41,130 Dr. Julia Ravey: when this happens. This is when I work." So giving 481 00:22:41,130 --> 00:22:43,679 Dr. Julia Ravey: yourself something like that or a playlist, something like that, that 482 00:22:43,710 --> 00:22:47,490 Dr. Julia Ravey: you only have on when you study, that can really 483 00:22:47,490 --> 00:22:50,760 Dr. Julia Ravey: help to craft an environment where you feel like, " Yes, 484 00:22:50,820 --> 00:22:52,109 Dr. Julia Ravey: I'm ready to go and get in the zone." 485 00:22:52,290 --> 00:22:55,380 Krutika Adatia: I like that, giving yourself a little trigger for your 486 00:22:55,380 --> 00:22:58,019 Krutika Adatia: brain to actually get into that zone. 487 00:22:58,380 --> 00:23:01,949 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yeah, because triggered all the time, everything we do is 488 00:23:01,950 --> 00:23:04,319 Dr. Julia Ravey: normally triggered by something, " Oh, I want to eat that 489 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,119 Dr. Julia Ravey: food, that's because I'm hungry." We have all of these 490 00:23:06,150 --> 00:23:08,970 Dr. Julia Ravey: triggers, so create a trigger for you to want to 491 00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:11,430 Dr. Julia Ravey: study. I think that's a good little tip that I've 492 00:23:11,430 --> 00:23:15,030 Dr. Julia Ravey: used throughout my whole time at university and beyond really. 493 00:23:15,210 --> 00:23:18,119 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. And you also mentioned, if this is the place 494 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,970 Krutika Adatia: where you study and you often procrastinate, we consider that. 495 00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:24,148 Krutika Adatia: I'm just thinking about students studying on their laptops, and 496 00:23:24,150 --> 00:23:28,830 Krutika Adatia: laptops nowadays have YouTube and they have Netflix, and what 497 00:23:28,830 --> 00:23:31,408 Krutika Adatia: can students be doing to avoid clicking into some of 498 00:23:31,410 --> 00:23:35,130 Krutika Adatia: these applications? So they're actually just thinking about the studying, 499 00:23:35,130 --> 00:23:36,780 Krutika Adatia: and I mean, I don't know if we have an 500 00:23:36,780 --> 00:23:39,149 Krutika Adatia: answer for that, but do you have any tips or thoughts? 501 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,100 Dr. Julia Ravey: Well, a good thing to do if you're able to study without the internet, 502 00:23:44,190 --> 00:23:46,320 Dr. Julia Ravey: you're able to get your bits and bobs out, you 503 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,920 Dr. Julia Ravey: can just cut the internet. I mean, that's quite a hard one, but 504 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,679 Dr. Julia Ravey: I know some people actually have those timers you have 505 00:23:52,679 --> 00:23:54,420 Dr. Julia Ravey: for when you go on holiday, you put your lights 506 00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:56,429 Dr. Julia Ravey: on a timer. Some people have that for their internet 507 00:23:56,429 --> 00:23:59,908 Dr. Julia Ravey: router, and it switches their internet off for an hour, and then 508 00:23:59,910 --> 00:24:01,800 Dr. Julia Ravey: it'll come back on automatically. But if you have a 509 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,800 Dr. Julia Ravey: steady time, it would then cut your router off. So 510 00:24:05,070 --> 00:24:07,619 Dr. Julia Ravey: you can actually be like, that's a very, we call 511 00:24:07,619 --> 00:24:09,359 Dr. Julia Ravey: it like we're trying to block out the distraction. We're 512 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,609 Dr. Julia Ravey: trying to completely block it. That's one way, as well, 513 00:24:11,609 --> 00:24:15,688 Dr. Julia Ravey: to manage your procrastination. If you know it's your phone, put that phone in 514 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:18,660 Dr. Julia Ravey: a drawer and do not let yourself touch it, and 515 00:24:18,750 --> 00:24:22,080 Dr. Julia Ravey: build in procrastination breaks if you need to. So if you're like, " Oh, 516 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,379 Dr. Julia Ravey: I just really want to check Instagram," you can be like, " Right, okay, well, 517 00:24:25,380 --> 00:24:27,629 Dr. Julia Ravey: I'll have a five- minute Instagram check after I've done 518 00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:31,109 Dr. Julia Ravey: this thing. So when that urge comes, you know you 519 00:24:31,109 --> 00:24:35,129 Dr. Julia Ravey: have that built in. You're not completely abstaining, but you're 520 00:24:35,129 --> 00:24:36,570 Dr. Julia Ravey: not going to do it and break your flow when 521 00:24:36,570 --> 00:24:37,050 Dr. Julia Ravey: you're working. 522 00:24:37,290 --> 00:24:39,840 Krutika Adatia: And that's really great. And I did not know about 523 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,879 Krutika Adatia: this thing that you can turn off your internet. I 524 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,570 Krutika Adatia: think I might need to consider doing that. But thank 525 00:24:45,570 --> 00:24:47,428 Krutika Adatia: you so much for the conversation, and just want to 526 00:24:47,429 --> 00:24:50,279 Krutika Adatia: wrap up by asking you. You've said some great tips 527 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:54,029 Krutika Adatia: and tricks to manage procrastination, but do you have three strategies 528 00:24:54,029 --> 00:24:57,480 Krutika Adatia: for kicking procrastination if you were to summarize them? 529 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,898 Dr. Julia Ravey: Yes. I would say, if you're sat there and you 530 00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:03,210 Dr. Julia Ravey: feel like you want to procrastinate, these were three things that 531 00:25:03,210 --> 00:25:05,369 Dr. Julia Ravey: I would do. The first is something I call a pop- 532 00:25:05,369 --> 00:25:07,320 Dr. Julia Ravey: up list. So when I'm working, I have a piece 533 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,869 Dr. Julia Ravey: of paper next to me, and if a thought pops 534 00:25:09,869 --> 00:25:12,390 Dr. Julia Ravey: into my head, it's normally very random. It'll be like, " 535 00:25:12,420 --> 00:25:13,918 Dr. Julia Ravey: What time is it in New York right now?" That 536 00:25:13,919 --> 00:25:15,270 Dr. Julia Ravey: is my brain trying to procrastinate. It's my brain trying to 537 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,020 Dr. Julia Ravey: get me out of this thing that I find not 538 00:25:19,020 --> 00:25:21,809 Dr. Julia Ravey: comfortable and start Googling, " Oh, what's the weather like in 539 00:25:21,809 --> 00:25:24,120 Dr. Julia Ravey: Spain?" So I will just write it on the list. 540 00:25:24,750 --> 00:25:27,120 Dr. Julia Ravey: And it's so funny, when you look at that list, 541 00:25:27,299 --> 00:25:30,059 Dr. Julia Ravey: you realize how many random things your brain throws at 542 00:25:30,059 --> 00:25:32,488 Dr. Julia Ravey: you. I would say most of them are nonsense, but 543 00:25:32,490 --> 00:25:35,340 Dr. Julia Ravey: it also captures the things that are important as well. 544 00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:37,290 Dr. Julia Ravey: I don't know about you, but sometimes when I go 545 00:25:37,290 --> 00:25:39,540 Dr. Julia Ravey: to work and it's hard, I will remember something important. 546 00:25:40,109 --> 00:25:41,759 Dr. Julia Ravey: I haven't rang the dentist back and I needed to 547 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:43,829 Dr. Julia Ravey: book that appointment, but then you've written it down so 548 00:25:43,830 --> 00:25:45,540 Dr. Julia Ravey: you can sort of go, " Forget about it. I'll do 549 00:25:45,540 --> 00:25:47,100 Dr. Julia Ravey: it later." So pop- up list, I'd say, is number 550 00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:50,940 Dr. Julia Ravey: one. Two is a timer. So if you are struggling 551 00:25:50,940 --> 00:25:54,030 Dr. Julia Ravey: to work, I would say start yourself off with 20- 552 00:25:54,030 --> 00:25:57,210 Dr. Julia Ravey: minute timer with a five- minute break. It's called the Pomodoro 553 00:25:57,210 --> 00:25:59,940 Dr. Julia Ravey: Technique. But I find that to be super helpful because 554 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,580 Dr. Julia Ravey: then if you want to procrastinate, you're like, " Well, I 555 00:26:02,580 --> 00:26:04,168 Dr. Julia Ravey: can in that five- minute break, I can do whatever 556 00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:06,209 Dr. Julia Ravey: I want in that five- minute break of mine." But 557 00:26:06,209 --> 00:26:09,660 Dr. Julia Ravey: for these 20 minutes, I am going to focus. It 558 00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:14,459 Dr. Julia Ravey: just eases you into your work and also prevents you 559 00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:18,030 Dr. Julia Ravey: from feeling this desperate need to stop because you know 560 00:26:18,150 --> 00:26:20,250 Dr. Julia Ravey: you have got a time to stop. So I say 561 00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:24,480 Dr. Julia Ravey: that. And the third thing I would say is, be curious about procrastination. 562 00:26:24,660 --> 00:26:27,810 Dr. Julia Ravey: We're all going to do it at some point. Why do you want 563 00:26:27,810 --> 00:26:30,869 Dr. Julia Ravey: to procrastinate on this thing? What is it about it? Is 564 00:26:30,869 --> 00:26:33,150 Dr. Julia Ravey: it that it's too hard? Well, if it's too hard, 565 00:26:33,150 --> 00:26:35,070 Dr. Julia Ravey: what is it about it that's hard? Is it this? I 566 00:26:35,070 --> 00:26:37,859 Dr. Julia Ravey: just don't understand this one tiny bit. Forget the study 567 00:26:37,859 --> 00:26:39,420 Dr. Julia Ravey: session for today, that is what you're going to do. 568 00:26:39,929 --> 00:26:41,638 Dr. Julia Ravey: So if it's too hard, is it that it means a 569 00:26:41,638 --> 00:26:44,070 Dr. Julia Ravey: lot to you? Well, that's a good thing, really, in 570 00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:47,070 Dr. Julia Ravey: a way. So I think with procrastination, don't just see 571 00:26:47,070 --> 00:26:49,109 Dr. Julia Ravey: it as a sign of, " Oh, I'm going to stop 572 00:26:49,109 --> 00:26:51,178 Dr. Julia Ravey: and fall into it," and go, " Oh, I'm not going 573 00:26:51,179 --> 00:26:54,388 Dr. Julia Ravey: to do it." Ask why, " Why am I procrastinating?" And 574 00:26:54,388 --> 00:26:56,969 Dr. Julia Ravey: a lot of the time, it's actually a sign that 575 00:26:56,969 --> 00:26:59,158 Dr. Julia Ravey: you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and you're 576 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,010 Dr. Julia Ravey: doing something that, in the long run, will really, really 577 00:27:02,010 --> 00:27:05,040 Dr. Julia Ravey: help you. So that's something that I always try my 578 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,290 Dr. Julia Ravey: very best to do in that moment where I just 579 00:27:07,290 --> 00:27:08,730 Dr. Julia Ravey: want to throw in the towel. 580 00:27:09,809 --> 00:27:12,270 Krutika Adatia: That's it from this episode of On Your Marks. Thank 581 00:27:12,270 --> 00:27:15,658 Krutika Adatia: you, Julia, for chatting with me today. For more information 582 00:27:15,660 --> 00:27:21,570 Krutika Adatia: about ACCA exams, you can go to www.accaglobal. com/ exams. 583 00:27:21,930 --> 00:27:25,740 Krutika Adatia: See you next time. I'm Krutika Adatia, and this has been 584 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:26,969 Krutika Adatia: On Your Marks.