Speaker 1: Fresh Air. Fresh Air Production.
Neil Cowling: Hi, and welcome to Fresh Ears. I'm Neil Cowling, the
Neil Cowling: founder of Fresh Air, the UK's leading producer of podcasts
Neil Cowling: for brands and businesses. In this series, we look at
Neil Cowling: case studies of the shows we've made and chat them
Neil Cowling: through with the clients and the producer to see what
Neil Cowling: we can learn and what might be useful to know
Neil Cowling: for others who are thinking of making a podcast for
Neil Cowling: their brand. Kleinwort Hambros is a private bank headquartered in
Neil Cowling: London with a 200- year history. We started working for
Neil Cowling: them back in the pre- pandemic years, remember them, and
Neil Cowling: launched The Wealth Chat, a series giving advice on current
Neil Cowling: trends in wealth management. Then during lockdown, we switched to
Neil Cowling: short pocket- sized updates before going back to longer form
Neil Cowling: work. More recently, we launched a second series, The Entrepreneurs’
Neil Cowling: Chat aimed at owners of small businesses and startups with
Neil Cowling: less market style insights and more general conversation, hosted by
Neil Cowling: James Hurley, the enterprise editor at The Times. Here's what
Neil Cowling: it sounds like.
Speaker 4: We just have to get the recruitment right and we
Speaker 4: have to invest. I think where we have been smart
Speaker 4: is that myself and (inaudible) and David and any of
Speaker 4: our other backers that we've had over the years, no
Speaker 4: one has really taken any money out of this business.
Speaker 4: We've always, if we've had some cash in the bank,
Speaker 4: we've gone, " Right. Let's hire this amazing person. Let's invest
Speaker 4: in these offices. Let's grow. Let's just put the money
Speaker 4: back in." So I think the first thing is I
Speaker 4: would want everyone to take away from this conversation that
Speaker 4: every business is a recruitment business.
Neil Cowling: Why would a private bank have a podcast? What are they
Neil Cowling: trying to achieve and why are they expanding their portfolio
Neil Cowling: of shows? We're going to talk this through with Karolina
Neil Cowling: Diebra, head of marketing at Kleinwort Hambros and Anouszka Tate,
Neil Cowling: our senior producer here at Fresh Air. Karolina, welcome to
Neil Cowling: Fresh Ears. For those who don't know, perhaps we could
Neil Cowling: just start with you explaining who Kleinwort Hambros are and what
Neil Cowling: you do, please. That'd be great.
Karolina Diebra: Hi, Neil. Thank you for having me. Kleinwort Hambros provides
Karolina Diebra: private banking, investment expertise, and wealth management services to individuals,
Karolina Diebra: families, entrepreneurs, IFAs, and external asset managers in the UK,
Karolina Diebra: Channel Islands, and Gibraltar. We are part of Société Générale Group.
Neil Cowling: We've been working together now probably about two and a
Neil Cowling: half years and you were quite an early client to
Neil Cowling: Fresh Air. What brought you into podcasting? Was there a
Neil Cowling: particular thing that you saw or a particular reason why
Neil Cowling: you decided that podcast was something you wanted to start doing?
Karolina Diebra: Yeah. A couple of years ago, we were doing a
Karolina Diebra: review of our content strategy and marketing strategy and looking
Karolina Diebra: at different channels, different types of content we are producing
Karolina Diebra: to engage with our audiences. We realized that a lot
Karolina Diebra: of it was very traditional, written pieces. When we started
Karolina Diebra: to think about how lifestyles of our clients and other
Karolina Diebra: audiences are evolving and people are becoming more busy and
Karolina Diebra: have less time to spend reading articles, reading lengthy papers,
Karolina Diebra: we realized that we wanted to diversify that content. We
Karolina Diebra: wanted to use a format that fits better into that
Karolina Diebra: lifestyles. Then the idea of the podcast came about and we thought, well,
Karolina Diebra: this would fit really well because whether someone on their
Karolina Diebra: commute to work or during a daily run or even
Karolina Diebra: just preparing dinner for the family, a podcast is a
Karolina Diebra: really right format to fit into that busy lifestyle and
Karolina Diebra: engage with a content and with a story that's behind it.
Neil Cowling: We used the phrase thought leadership quite a lot for
Neil Cowling: what people want to achieve. Is that a fair summary of
Neil Cowling: what your ambition was with this, to set yourselves up
Neil Cowling: with a specific thought leadership channel?
Karolina Diebra: Yes, absolutely. It was part of that. What we really
Karolina Diebra: wanted to do is for a podcast to reflect our
Karolina Diebra: purpose and our purpose is to simplify life's financial challenges.
Karolina Diebra: A lot of the content that we cover in our
Karolina Diebra: podcast is around investment management, wealth management, philanthropy, retirement planning.
Karolina Diebra: We wanted to bring those topics closer to our audiences.
Karolina Diebra: We wanted to shed a bit of light and educate
Karolina Diebra: around some of those challenges that people are facing on
Karolina Diebra: their journey, on their financial journey.
Neil Cowling: So for the listeners, we now have two podcasts running
Neil Cowling: with you guys. We have The Wealth Chat, which was
Neil Cowling: the original series, and we have The Entrepreneurs’ Chat, which
Neil Cowling: is just launched in the last few months. If we
Neil Cowling: talk about The Wealth Chat for a moment, because they're
Neil Cowling: quite a different format, that's presented by an internal speaker who
Neil Cowling: was a really early choice. That's Fahad. Just tell us a
Neil Cowling: bit about Fahad and why he was a good choice
Neil Cowling: to be the presenter for the podcast.
Karolina Diebra: Yes. Fahad is our chief investment officer at Kleinwort Hambros. Fahad
Karolina Diebra: obviously is running our investment strategy and is very close
Karolina Diebra: to the clients as well, but also in his role,
Karolina Diebra: he has quite a broad media presence. He's a very
Karolina Diebra: engaging speaker. He's a very engaging host of the podcast.
Karolina Diebra: We wanted to talk about topics that are really on
Karolina Diebra: the minds of our clients or potential clients and educate
Karolina Diebra: and inspire and really bring those topics to life. And Fahad was just really right person to do that.
Neil Cowling: How do you choose what is a good topic? Is
Neil Cowling: it something that you are talking about in other communications? Is it
Neil Cowling: just a sense of what your audience are looking for?
Neil Cowling: Is there a science behind choosing the topic that you're
Neil Cowling: going to talk about next?
Karolina Diebra: So we try to make it as diverse as possible.
Karolina Diebra: As a private bank, we focus both on investment management,
Karolina Diebra: wealth planning, philanthropy, succession planning. We have a really wide
Karolina Diebra: range of expertise. Some of those topics would be coming
Karolina Diebra: from discussions we have with our experts and with our client-
Karolina Diebra: facing teams to understand really what's on our client's minds
Karolina Diebra: and what is that they speak about, what are concerns
Karolina Diebra: they may be having or what challenges they're facing. These
Karolina Diebra: are the topics really what we wanted to bring to life most
Karolina Diebra: in the podcast. Then we also look at more strategically
Karolina Diebra: around with our ambition, what we're trying to achieve. That's
Karolina Diebra: where some of the topics around responsibility, responsible investing, philanthropy,
Karolina Diebra: some of the work with our charity partners that we're
Karolina Diebra: doing that also we're introduced into The Wealth Chat.
Neil Cowling: Anouszka, bringing you in as producer, Fahad obviously came with
Neil Cowling: some media experience and well, significant media experience and is a
Neil Cowling: great talker. What do you have to do to take
Neil Cowling: that kind of raw material and turn him into a
Neil Cowling: great podcast presenter?
Anouszka Tate: Well, I think the really interesting thing about Fahad is that,
Anouszka Tate: obviously, he's often the one who's being the expert speaker
Anouszka Tate: on TV, on the radio. He's the one who's bringing
Anouszka Tate: the knowledge, whereas actually, that makes him a great speaker,
Anouszka Tate: but he's now having to be on the other side
Anouszka Tate: being the one who's anchoring a conversation and guiding a
Anouszka Tate: conversation. So it's more that side of things that I
Anouszka Tate: can bring a little bit more expertise and just coach
Anouszka Tate: him through, just knowing how to read the guest actually,
Anouszka Tate: and knowing when to allow them maybe a little bit
Anouszka Tate: more silence before jumping in with the next question because
Anouszka Tate: that might be when the great answers are going to
Anouszka Tate: come through, because he's an incredibly eager, enthusiastic presenter, which
Anouszka Tate: is exactly what you want energy wise, but just learning
Anouszka Tate: the pace and rhythm of an interview as opposed to
Anouszka Tate: being the one who's there to just spill out all
Anouszka Tate: this wonderful knowledge, I think was the main thing that
Anouszka Tate: we worked on with him.
Neil Cowling: Yeah. That's an interesting one, isn't it? Because we always
Neil Cowling: talk about the presenter having the ear of the listener,
Neil Cowling: thinking about what the listener wants to ask and getting
Neil Cowling: the answers out that the listener is already wanting to
Neil Cowling: know. But actually, when you've got such an expert presenter,
Neil Cowling: it must be very difficult for him not to want
Neil Cowling: to jump in and give answers himself and almost overshadow
Neil Cowling: the guest.
Anouszka Tate: Yeah. He's been brilliant in that actually that just comes
Anouszka Tate: across as this really lovely, exciting conversation. It's more almost
Anouszka Tate: bringing it back to a boring, technical point of view
Anouszka Tate: from my side as a producer and going, leave a
Anouszka Tate: beat before you do your exciting jumping in, because I
Anouszka Tate: can pull that back together in the edit to make
Anouszka Tate: the pace feel up to speed, but it just makes
Anouszka Tate: my life a little bit easier in the edit if
Anouszka Tate: I'm not having to work with different tracks. It's very boring
Anouszka Tate: technical things like that that I've just had to teach him,
Anouszka Tate: which are things that he, of course, hasn't had to
Anouszka Tate: deal with before.
Neil Cowling: Has he improved as you've gone through? Has he learned that as you've-
Anouszka Tate: Absolutely, yeah, I think. I think we've got a little bit of
Anouszka Tate: telepathy now maybe. I can see him starting to catch
Anouszka Tate: himself when he knows that I might have a little
Anouszka Tate: word afterwards about, oh, maybe you jumped in a little
Anouszka Tate: bit too soon there. But I would always much rather
Anouszka Tate: it be that way around than someone who is underconfident
Anouszka Tate: and therefore, the energy of the delivery is that much
Anouszka Tate: lower. It's so much easier to teach someone to take
Anouszka Tate: a breath before asking a question than to get them
Anouszka Tate: to be enthusiastic about what they're there to talk about.
Anouszka Tate: It's all brilliant, really.
Neil Cowling: Great. Karolina, we'll come on to talk about the second
Neil Cowling: series in a moment, but obviously, during that first set
Neil Cowling: of The Wealth Chat, we had lockdown where we pulled
Neil Cowling: it back a bit and The Wealth Chat became a
Neil Cowling: very short- form, reactive piece of work during the lockdown. Then
Neil Cowling: it came back to being much more long- form once
Neil Cowling: we had more to talk about, I suppose, and the
Neil Cowling: world felt like it had settled down a bit. You
Neil Cowling: have become more and more committed to podcast as we've
Neil Cowling: gone through. What was the driver behind you guys deciding
Neil Cowling: that this was a long- term strand for you rather
Neil Cowling: than just a short- term pilot?
Karolina Diebra: That internal engagement is really, really important, and that support
Karolina Diebra: we get internally from our colleagues, our staff. I have
Karolina Diebra: to say, it build up over time. I think as
Karolina Diebra: people see how the content is very relatable and the
Karolina Diebra: content that they can actually use to engage with the
Karolina Diebra: clients and use it as well in their daily work,
Karolina Diebra: I think they felt this is something that they want
Karolina Diebra: to really are behind and also share with their networks.
Karolina Diebra: We've actually seen that engagement increase. It's fantastic to see
Karolina Diebra: how currently when we post some of our podcasts on
Karolina Diebra: social media, there's that engagement and our colleagues are sharing
Karolina Diebra: it with their networks on their social media platforms. We've
Karolina Diebra: seen that trend and that support behind the content we're
Karolina Diebra: producing. More recently, actually, we've been having suggestions of what
Karolina Diebra: guests we should be inviting to the podcast. Particularly with The
Karolina Diebra: Entrepreneurs’ Chat, where we're telling stories of people behind the
Karolina Diebra: businesses, I think that's where that engagement increase even more.
Karolina Diebra: We had some great suggestions and great potential guests being
Karolina Diebra: proposed to us for the second series. So yeah, we're really excited
Karolina Diebra: to see that also coming through.
Neil Cowling: Magic. So yeah, let's talk about that. The Entrepreneurs’ Chat
Neil Cowling: is the offshoot or the second series that you are
Neil Cowling: creating. Can you just summarize the format for that and
Neil Cowling: why it's different from The Wealth Chat?
Karolina Diebra: The Entrepreneurs’ Chat tells the stories of six entrepreneurs at
Karolina Diebra: different stages of their journey. We talk about the challenges
Karolina Diebra: that they face, but also some of the lessons that
Karolina Diebra: they've learned along the way that they are sharing with
Karolina Diebra: others through the podcast. The series is quite different from
Karolina Diebra: The Wealth Chat. We wanted to work with an external
Karolina Diebra: host for this podcast. We wanted to work someone who
Karolina Diebra: has experience of writing, speaking to entrepreneurs. We are really delighted when
Karolina Diebra: James Hurley, the enterprise editor at The Times agreed to
Karolina Diebra: host the series for us. It's been a great experience
Karolina Diebra: because he obviously has that knowledge of entrepreneurs, the challenges
Karolina Diebra: they face as they grow and scale their business in
Karolina Diebra: the UK. He had that extra insight and he could
Karolina Diebra: bring that expertise into the conversations, which I think was
Karolina Diebra: a great driver to make those conversations more engaging and
Karolina Diebra: more interesting for our audiences. So that's the big difference.
Karolina Diebra: And also, I think they're very much more story- driven
Karolina Diebra: than The Wealth Chat. The Wealth Chat is expertise, some
Karolina Diebra: of the topics around investment, wealth planning, succession planning, so
Karolina Diebra: much more closer to our core business and what we
Karolina Diebra: do, whereas The Entrepreneurs’ Chat is about stories. Obviously, entrepreneurs
Karolina Diebra: is one of the segments or one of the types
Karolina Diebra: of clients we serve, so we thought that bringing those
Karolina Diebra: stories through the podcast will help other entrepreneurs or aspiring
Karolina Diebra: entrepreneurs really to learn something and be valuable for them as
Karolina Diebra: they go on that journey themselves.
Neil Cowling: It's really interesting, that contrast between the two series, because
Neil Cowling: the first one is really about what you do, isn't
Neil Cowling: it? It's about the core service of the business. It's about
Neil Cowling: the issues that you talk about every day and therefore,
Neil Cowling: it's very central to your everyday relationship with the listenership.
Neil Cowling: Whereas the second one is saying, we want to attract
Neil Cowling: this target audience of entrepreneurs, but not by talking about
Neil Cowling: what we do, but creating content that those people will
Neil Cowling: like to listen to, and therefore, you get a halo
Neil Cowling: effect from the content for Kleinwort Hambros without it having
Neil Cowling: to be all about you.
Karolina Diebra: Absolutely. You will see, we don't really talk about us in that podcast.
Karolina Diebra: Kleinwort Hambros is we research the guests. We decide who
Karolina Diebra: we would like to invite and we work with on
Karolina Diebra: the scripts and with questions, how we want those conversations
Karolina Diebra: to evolve, but we didn't really want to make it
Karolina Diebra: about us. We really want to make it about the
Karolina Diebra: guests and their stories. I think that's what makes it
Karolina Diebra: really engaging as well. Internally, we've seen great support and
Karolina Diebra: great feedback about the series. So yeah, we're really excited
Karolina Diebra: to continue and launch another series.
Anouszka Tate: I think as well, real credit to you guys for
Anouszka Tate: being brave on that hard sell front or lack thereof,
Anouszka Tate: more specifically on this one, because actually, what we've created
Anouszka Tate: is a genuinely fascinating series about the individuals, as you
Anouszka Tate: say, that their stories behind these businesses as opposed to
Anouszka Tate: a series about Kleinwort Hambros. But the brave part is
Anouszka Tate: that listeners will come away having a wonderful feeling towards
Anouszka Tate: you guys as the people who facilitated this lovely half
Anouszka Tate: hour of their day and engaged listeners are much more
Anouszka Tate: likely to become engaged with your wider work, which I
Anouszka Tate: appreciate for someone within your work is maybe it's harder
Anouszka Tate: to quantify. I don't know. Did that feel like more
Anouszka Tate: of a risk from your side in terms of how
Anouszka Tate: you then measure that direct success?
Karolina Diebra: I think it could be perceived as a missed opportunity
Karolina Diebra: if someone is just thinking about, " Oh, every piece of
Karolina Diebra: content has to be brand stamped. Then we need to really
Karolina Diebra: have our name out there through every piece of content
Karolina Diebra: that we produce." I think if you look at it
Karolina Diebra: from that perspective, some people may think, oh, we are
Karolina Diebra: missing an opportunity here to promote your services or to
Karolina Diebra: promote who we are. But I think content is so much
Karolina Diebra: more than that. I think it's about building trust and
Karolina Diebra: building loyalty towards your brand. We don't expect that someone
Karolina Diebra: who's listening to the podcast will suddenly necessarily directly come
Karolina Diebra: to us because they need our services, but maybe they
Karolina Diebra: will at some point in the future. I think that's
Karolina Diebra: what we are trying to do with this podcast, building that trust over time.
Neil Cowling: The association with the guests as well is really important, isn't
Neil Cowling: it? Look at someone like Jake Humphrey, who has a
Neil Cowling: huge following, is very big in podcasting, is definitely somebody
Neil Cowling: with this high- performance podcast that entrepreneurs and aspiring entrepreneurs
Neil Cowling: will listen to. By association, you are building an affiliation
Neil Cowling: with that talent that those people will already respect and
Neil Cowling: already lap up their content. It's a way of being
Neil Cowling: associated with someone who you might not otherwise have been
Neil Cowling: drawn to or that potential audience may not have otherwise been
Neil Cowling: drawn to you as a result.
Karolina Diebra: Absolutely. I think we were really privileged and lucky to have some
Karolina Diebra: really fascinating guests on the podcast in this six- episode
Karolina Diebra: series so far. We're hoping that it will continue that
Karolina Diebra: way so that people will see you had some great,
Karolina Diebra: fascinating, inspiring speakers, and it will attract audience, but also,
Karolina Diebra: it hopefully will help us to engage more entrepreneurs and
Karolina Diebra: involve more entrepreneurs to wanting to be part of the
Karolina Diebra: podcast and be our guests on the podcast. So yes,
Karolina Diebra: we were absolutely. I think having someone like Jake, like
Karolina Diebra: Giles, or Cécile, who have built successful businesses and have
Karolina Diebra: really fascinating stories to share with other entrepreneurs is going
Karolina Diebra: to help us to, like you say, build that association as well
Karolina Diebra: through the podcast.
Anouszka Tate: I think that's a really interesting point as well around
Anouszka Tate: the potential longevity of a podcast like this. We've done
Anouszka Tate: six episodes. Don't get too ahead of ourselves, but the
Anouszka Tate: idea that you create a space that people want to
Anouszka Tate: come into to tell their stories, I think is really,
Anouszka Tate: really interesting, that we can start to set ourselves up
Anouszka Tate: and James will play a massive part of that of
Anouszka Tate: actually, we've just been through something awful in our business,
Anouszka Tate: but I really want to talk about it on a
Anouszka Tate: human level and this is the kind of conversation I
Anouszka Tate: want to be having about it. I know that James
Anouszka Tate: and The Entrepreneurs’ Chat is the space that I want
Anouszka Tate: to do that in. I do think there's potential for
Anouszka Tate: us to start doing that longer term, which is a very
Anouszka Tate: exciting thing because that's when you become the thought leaders
Anouszka Tate: and that's the brand recognition when everyone's coming into you
Anouszka Tate: and you are not having to pitch out anymore. That's
Anouszka Tate: the dream.
Karolina Diebra: Definitely. No, absolutely. We have that aspiration for Entrepreneurs' Chat
Karolina Diebra: to become the go- to podcast for entrepreneurs. I think
Karolina Diebra: sharing those really fascinating, inspiring stories and people feeling comfortable
Karolina Diebra: really just having that, those honest conversations with us. Because
Karolina Diebra: I think what was really amazing about the podcast we've
Karolina Diebra: recorded so far, they've been all really honest and really
Karolina Diebra: open conversations. I think that that's what other entrepreneurs will really find
Karolina Diebra: inspiring as well.
Neil Cowling: I love your sentiment, Karolina, about long- term payback of
Neil Cowling: content and the content is a long- form strategy. We always
Neil Cowling: talk about that all the time when we're talking about
Neil Cowling: podcasts, but you must have some pressure on you to
Neil Cowling: show that there's a return on investment or that there's
Neil Cowling: a measure of success. How are you judging with The
Neil Cowling: Entrepreneurs’ Chat because it is slightly tangential from your normal
Neil Cowling: content? How are you being able to judge whether that is
Neil Cowling: a success or not?
Karolina Diebra: We would look at sets of KPIs for every series
Karolina Diebra: we have, but we would look both at the hard measures
Karolina Diebra: and the soft measures. Obviously, we can look at number
Karolina Diebra: of downloads and a number of people who listen to the
Karolina Diebra: podcast, but I think it's equally important to look at
Karolina Diebra: engagement and how people engage with your content, how engaging
Karolina Diebra: they find it. If we see that the podcast is getting
Karolina Diebra: a lot of likes and shares and a lot of
Karolina Diebra: people coming to us just giving us that direct feedback,
Karolina Diebra: qualitative feedback, I think that's equally important because sometimes, it's
Karolina Diebra: as important to reach the right audiences that engage with
Karolina Diebra: your content than just reaching any audience and as wide
Karolina Diebra: as possible. I think there's a bit of a fine
Karolina Diebra: balance there. Of course, we do want reach as many
Karolina Diebra: people as possible, but equally, we want to reach the
Karolina Diebra: right audiences and someone who's really going to find it
Karolina Diebra: valuable and will come back for more and to listen
Karolina Diebra: more. I think it's both looking at obviously, some of
Karolina Diebra: the hard KPIs, hard measures, but also, I think, that
Karolina Diebra: qualitative feedback as well is also important.
Neil Cowling: Anouszka, we've talked about Fahad earlier. He's the presenter for Wealth
Neil Cowling: Chat. James comes from more of a media background, but
Neil Cowling: he's a print journalist. What's the challenge in taking a
Neil Cowling: print journalist and turning them into a podcast presenter?
Anouszka Tate: I think it's mostly about empowering them to bring themselves
Anouszka Tate: to the conversation. He can ask brilliant questions that elicit
Anouszka Tate: the right answers from people, but of course, when you
Anouszka Tate: put that in print, you take your own questions out and
Anouszka Tate: you just make it about the person or the business that
Anouszka Tate: you're talking about. It's actually about allowing him to insert
Anouszka Tate: himself back into that conversation. He has been completely brilliant.
Anouszka Tate: As Karolina said, so many of the guests have given
Anouszka Tate: really deeply personal insights into yes, okay, this awful thing
Anouszka Tate: happened in the business, but this is how it affected
Anouszka Tate: me mentally or in my personal life or whatever. I
Anouszka Tate: think that's real testament to James being able to just
Anouszka Tate: give little anecdotes from his own life or to connect
Anouszka Tate: on a human level with the guests, because you can't
Anouszka Tate: expect someone else to give that much of themselves if
Anouszka Tate: the host isn't giving that back as well. There's already
Anouszka Tate: that kind of rapport and connection because he is so
Anouszka Tate: immersed in these world. Yeah, he's just been an absolute
Anouszka Tate: joy to work with.
Neil Cowling: In terms of the content as well, it's a different
Neil Cowling: type of storytelling. It's a different type of content. As you
Neil Cowling: say, actually on The Wealth Chat, as a producer, you can't
Neil Cowling: be expected to know lots of detail about what a
Neil Cowling: private bank does all day long, but perhaps The Entrepreneurs’
Neil Cowling: Chat plays more into your role as a producer because
Neil Cowling: you are thinking about storytelling on a more general level.
Neil Cowling: How is that different and what role do you play?
Anouszka Tate: Yeah. I think there's an interesting point here about how
Anouszka Tate: we've all worked together collaboratively, because we are all coming at
Anouszka Tate: the same project from very different angles. I think that's
Anouszka Tate: particularly clear in the way that we've worked through the
Anouszka Tate: scripting on this particular series. It starts with Karolina and
Anouszka Tate: her team and they put in the core messaging, the
Anouszka Tate: stuff that is maybe more of the hard facts that
Anouszka Tate: they know that we need to get out throughout the
Anouszka Tate: story. It then goes on to James and he can
Anouszka Tate: really add his personality to it. He can add some
Anouszka Tate: of his own questions from his own experience, just change
Anouszka Tate: wording around so that he feels more comfortable delivering it.
Anouszka Tate: Then it can come onto me and I zoom out
Anouszka Tate: a bit and look at the entire narrative of the
Anouszka Tate: whole episode from start to finish. I think it's a
Anouszka Tate: good lesson, A, in having it in writing from the
Anouszka Tate: beginning what everyone's role is and not having too many
Anouszka Tate: cooks in each of those roles as well. It works
Anouszka Tate: that we're quite a small team and everyone's very clear
Anouszka Tate: what they bring to it, which keeps the quality consistent
Anouszka Tate: and keeps that workflow efficient.
Neil Cowling: That's been important to you, I presume, as well, Karolina, to have
Neil Cowling: clear roles and responsibilities in that process.
Karolina Diebra: Yes, it has. It has been really helpful actually to make this process
Karolina Diebra: as efficient, effective as possible, but I think equally, it's
Karolina Diebra: so important as well that working with Anouszka, she knows
Karolina Diebra: what we're trying to achieve. She understand the whole concept
Karolina Diebra: as well of the whole series, so it's not just
Karolina Diebra: from the producer perspective, but just understanding what we're trying
Karolina Diebra: to do, what we're trying to achieve, working really well
Karolina Diebra: both with James and our guests, recording with different types
Karolina Diebra: of guests. Living in different parts of the world sometimes
Karolina Diebra: can be a bit of a challenge, so I think always being there to put them at ease as well
Karolina Diebra: and guide them through the process. I think that's been
Karolina Diebra: hugely, hugely helpful as well. I think it is great that we have
Karolina Diebra: that great team that gets together and adds value from
Karolina Diebra: different perspectives into the process.
Anouszka Tate: On the storytelling side as well, just a quick one
Anouszka Tate: in terms of how we've produced the series. With The
Anouszka Tate: Wealth Chat, we do it episode by episode, start to
Anouszka Tate: finish, end to end each episode, but with The Entrepreneurs’
Anouszka Tate: Chat, we've been working on the series as a whole,
Anouszka Tate: batch recording everything, which means that we then have the
Anouszka Tate: flexibility to choose what release order we want to have
Anouszka Tate: so that again, it's the zooming out and going how
Anouszka Tate: is this story working across the entire series, not just
Anouszka Tate: within each episode, which is really lovely flexibility to have
Anouszka Tate: because it really means we're on a journey with the
Anouszka Tate: listener throughout and something like this works really well because
Anouszka Tate: there are so many different stages of a business's life
Anouszka Tate: that we're going through. Some of them are more at
Anouszka Tate: the startup stage and then we are literally through the
Anouszka Tate: series working to when someone ultimately leaves the business. So
Anouszka Tate: that's worked really well for this series, I think.
Karolina Diebra: I think this has been such a different experience from
Karolina Diebra: The Wealth Chat. I think exactly for that reason that
Karolina Diebra: we had the concept for the whole series. Obviously, it
Karolina Diebra: can be shorter, longer, six guests or more, but I
Karolina Diebra: think the idea of having guests that are at different
Karolina Diebra: stages of their business journey and having slightly different story
Karolina Diebra: to tell, I think that was what made it really
Karolina Diebra: so exciting and so interesting. They complement each other as
Karolina Diebra: well. We really wanted to make sure that there's that
Karolina Diebra: good diversity of voices and diversity of stories and different
Karolina Diebra: types of entrepreneurs being part of this podcast.
Neil Cowling: Karolina, you've been podcasting now for two and a half years as a business.
Neil Cowling: We are starting to think about the next stage and
Neil Cowling: how these series will evolve and Entrepreneurs' Chat will move
Neil Cowling: into series two. What have you learned along the way?
Neil Cowling: How have you made the best of podcasting within the business?
Karolina Diebra: I think the most important lesson was to, I think
Karolina Diebra: really for us, evolve this podcast into much more of
Karolina Diebra: a storytelling. I think that just made it so much
Karolina Diebra: more engaging for our audiences. I think planning is a
Karolina Diebra: quite important part of it. I think with The Wealth
Karolina Diebra: Chat, obviously, we had the challenge of the pandemic and
Karolina Diebra: we had to change the format to be a bit more reactive to
Karolina Diebra: where our clients were when we had some, obviously, market
Karolina Diebra: uncertainty. So we adapted and changed the format of it.
Karolina Diebra: I think that adaptability was quite important part of it
Karolina Diebra: as well to make sure that it actually still works
Karolina Diebra: and it's still the right format, the right content for
Karolina Diebra: that time. If you see that some things are working
Karolina Diebra: better than others, just go in that direction. Some of
Karolina Diebra: the analytics and the KPIs will play a role there. If
Karolina Diebra: you look back at your podcast and you see that
Karolina Diebra: particular topic has done really well or your audiences are
Karolina Diebra: particularly interested in wealth planning versus investing or investing versus,
Karolina Diebra: I don't know, philanthropy, I think you can also use
Karolina Diebra: that to your advantage and use that to adapt your
Karolina Diebra: content as you go along.
Neil Cowling: Excellent. So that flexibility and just willingness to evolve it
Neil Cowling: and use the data to inform the evolution of the
Neil Cowling: podcast is really crucial. Brilliant. Thank you so much, both
Neil Cowling: of you, for taking part.
Anouszka Tate: Thank you.
Karolina Diebra: Thank you very much.
Neil Cowling: So there we go. That's The Wealth Chat and The
Neil Cowling: Entrepreneurs’ Chat from Kleinwort Hambros. Thanks to Karolina Diebra, head
Neil Cowling: of marketing for Kleinwort Hambros, and Anouszka Tate, our senior
Neil Cowling: producer here at Fresh Air. If you'd like to find
Neil Cowling: out more about Fresh Air and how you can make
Neil Cowling: a podcast for your brand or business, you can find
Neil Cowling: us at freshairproduction. co. uk. In the meantime, I've been
Neil Cowling: Neil Cowling. Thanks very much for listening and goodbye.
Speaker 1: Fresh Air.