WEBVTT - The Psychology Behind Your Spending 0:00:01.530 --> 0:00:04.529 Hello, I'm Iona Bain, and welcome to A Little Bit 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:09.030 Richer, brought to you by Legal and General. Now, author 0:00:09.030 --> 0:00:12.570 of Money on Your Mind: The Psychology Behind Your Financial 0:00:12.570 --> 0:00:16.529 Habits Vicky Reynal is here to explain the psychology of 0:00:16.530 --> 0:00:20.940 our spending. Vicky is a financial psychotherapist and runs her 0:00:20.940 --> 0:00:25.140 own clinic in London. She offers psychological support to people 0:00:25.140 --> 0:00:29.250 with money worries, such as overspending or debt, and combines 0:00:29.250 --> 0:00:33.599 this with guidance on making healthier money decisions. She also 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:36.479 writes a weekly column for The Daily Mail, answering reader 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:41.310 questions as their financial psychotherapist. Welcome, Vicky. 0:00:41.340 --> 0:00:42.840 Thank you. Thank you for having me. 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:48.060 Firstly, what is financial psychotherapy and how is it different 0:00:48.150 --> 0:00:49.379 from financial coaching? 0:00:50.729 --> 0:00:54.030 What I'm trying to help people do is unpick what 0:00:54.030 --> 0:00:58.290 feelings or emotions might be driving their money choices. People 0:00:58.290 --> 0:01:01.530 might come because they're overly generous and they don't know 0:01:01.530 --> 0:01:05.009 why that is, and they know it's against what's best 0:01:05.100 --> 0:01:08.700 in their financial interests but they can't stop themselves. What 0:01:08.700 --> 0:01:12.600 I often find is that there's feelings that are unconscious that 0:01:12.750 --> 0:01:15.330 are getting in the way. My job is to help 0:01:15.330 --> 0:01:17.610 them unpack that and understand it so that they can 0:01:17.610 --> 0:01:19.890 change the way they behave with money. 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:24.780 I'm imagining that your upbringing is really important in shaping 0:01:24.780 --> 0:01:29.100 your relationship with money. I've heard that you form your 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:32.910 attitude to money by the age of eight. I'm wondering, 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:34.590 is there any truth in that? 0:01:35.610 --> 0:01:38.310 There is some truth. I wouldn't pinpoint it to a 0:01:38.310 --> 0:01:41.250 specific age because I think that a lot of experiences 0:01:41.250 --> 0:01:45.209 that we have in later years will shape our relationship 0:01:45.209 --> 0:01:48.540 with money in the longterm. Of course, the money lessons 0:01:48.540 --> 0:01:51.360 that our parents teach us growing up will have an 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.630 impact on our relationship with money. If they tell us, " 0:01:54.630 --> 0:01:57.900 Don't be too greedy," or, " Money corrupts you," that will 0:01:57.900 --> 0:02:00.300 be in the back of your mind as you're trying 0:02:00.300 --> 0:02:03.420 to ask for a raise, for example. But there's a 0:02:03.420 --> 0:02:07.890 lot of non- money related experiences when we're young that 0:02:07.890 --> 0:02:10.470 will shape what we do with money when we're old. 0:02:11.130 --> 0:02:13.680 Let's say you've been bullied a lot in school, or 0:02:13.680 --> 0:02:16.590 you felt different, you might find that, as an adult, 0:02:16.889 --> 0:02:20.160 you tend to overspend when you're out with friends. It's 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:21.570 because you're trying to fit in. 0:02:21.570 --> 0:02:23.880 It's like you're trying to buy acceptance. 0:02:23.970 --> 0:02:27.360 Exactly. Which isn't about the money lessons learned, it's about 0:02:27.360 --> 0:02:30.360 something very different. Or you might see people who really 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:33.180 struggle to spend money on themselves, so they become very 0:02:33.180 --> 0:02:37.350 frugal. That might come from a feeling that you're not 0:02:37.350 --> 0:02:40.739 really deserving of the good things that money can buy, 0:02:40.980 --> 0:02:44.160 that you feel guilty any time you spend anything on 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:48.180 yourself. That might come from experiences growing up in which 0:02:48.180 --> 0:02:51.270 maybe your parents were not paying a lot of attention 0:02:51.270 --> 0:02:55.260 to you, or harsh teachers, or whatnot, that left you with 0:02:55.260 --> 0:02:57.630 a really small confidence in yourself. 0:02:57.630 --> 0:02:57.781 And low self-esteem. 0:02:57.781 --> 0:02:57.782 Exactly. 0:02:57.782 --> 0:03:01.470 Someone, I imagine, could be a big spender as an 0:03:01.470 --> 0:03:05.310 adult, but maybe their parents are quite frugal actually. Can 0:03:05.310 --> 0:03:07.650 you explain why there can be those kinds of differences? 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:11.190 Our relationship with money has to do with so many 0:03:11.190 --> 0:03:16.470 different psychological factors, like our sense of deservedness, our personality, 0:03:16.590 --> 0:03:19.590 which is why you see in families with many children 0:03:19.590 --> 0:03:22.770 how siblings might end up having very different attitudes to 0:03:22.770 --> 0:03:25.110 money even though they have the same parents teaching the 0:03:25.110 --> 0:03:29.370 same lessons. Because what drives our overspending, it could be 0:03:29.370 --> 0:03:34.320 coming from social pressures. Lifestyle inflation is very common. That 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:38.220 term basically describes a phenomenon, when your income rises, your 0:03:38.220 --> 0:03:41.940 spending rises with it. Your costs go up and you 0:03:41.940 --> 0:03:44.580 end up in a worse financial situation on this higher 0:03:44.580 --> 0:03:48.090 salary than you before in the first place. Sometimes what's 0:03:48.090 --> 0:03:51.510 driving it is internal rather than external. If we don't 0:03:51.510 --> 0:03:54.720 feel lovable enough, we might go out there and spend 0:03:54.720 --> 0:04:00.870 on maybe beauty products or gadgets. It's that internal insecurity 0:04:00.990 --> 0:04:03.000 that might be manifesting through their spending. 0:04:03.150 --> 0:04:06.810 Well, speaking of social pressures, they influence our spending behaviors 0:04:06.930 --> 0:04:08.730 in so many ways. Can you give me a few 0:04:08.730 --> 0:04:09.450 examples? 0:04:09.990 --> 0:04:12.930 Yes. The fear of missing out is one that particularly 0:04:12.930 --> 0:04:17.550 young people often talk about. There's a lot of insecurity, 0:04:17.550 --> 0:04:22.380 sometimes of exclusion, sometimes it's about not being able to 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:26.070 feel part of the conversation next time you're with them. 0:04:26.310 --> 0:04:29.430 And even fear of rejection or abandonment in some cases, 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.729 so you'll do it literally at all costs. You'll go 0:04:32.730 --> 0:04:35.460 to that wedding abroad that you know you can't afford. 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.630 People can be so ashamed of admitting that they can't 0:04:39.630 --> 0:04:43.500 afford something. But actually, what they end up finding most 0:04:43.500 --> 0:04:45.630 of the times is that somebody else in that group 0:04:45.630 --> 0:04:47.760 is just relieved that they said something. 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:47.820 Yeah. 0:04:48.810 --> 0:04:51.750 Maybe there is a cheaper restaurant we can go to. 0:04:52.529 --> 0:04:55.290 But we often feel ashamed and alone with our money 0:04:55.290 --> 0:04:59.460 worries, and that stops us from questioning these social pressures. 0:04:59.460 --> 0:05:03.210 And social media as well must be playing quite a 0:05:03.210 --> 0:05:06.180 big role. How are you seeing that reflected in the cases 0:05:06.180 --> 0:05:06.930 that you deal with? 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:12.330 If we are curious about comparing upwards, well, the algorithms 0:05:12.330 --> 0:05:14.460 will pick that up and just feed us more of 0:05:14.460 --> 0:05:19.050 that content. Which creates an illusion, because what we see 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.470 is people spending and we're assuming that they're in a 0:05:22.470 --> 0:05:25.710 better financial situation. What we're not seeing is all the 0:05:25.710 --> 0:05:28.740 debt that might be sitting behind some of the spending. 0:05:28.740 --> 0:05:32.339 We're left with a sense of shame that everybody else 0:05:32.339 --> 0:05:34.560 is doing better than us and we need to catch 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.130 up, and not a lot of critical thinking goes into 0:05:38.130 --> 0:05:38.580 that. 0:05:39.180 --> 0:05:43.469 There's also this concept of retail therapy. When does that 0:05:43.470 --> 0:05:47.670 become problematic? Why do you think people turn to shopping 0:05:47.670 --> 0:05:50.070 so much as a way to self- soothe? 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.480 Because it can be quite effective in the short term. 0:05:54.660 --> 0:05:57.510 When you find something that you like and you buy 0:05:57.510 --> 0:06:00.029 it, you get dopamine released in the brain, which means 0:06:00.029 --> 0:06:03.720 that you do get a real sensation of feeling better. 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:04.440 You get a high. 0:06:04.650 --> 0:06:08.730 It also distracts you, let's face it. Then the effect 0:06:08.730 --> 0:06:12.930 fades away, and you're left sometimes with the guilt and 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.529 regret. But also, the feelings you were trying to avoid 0:06:16.890 --> 0:06:19.440 are still there, be it the sadness, be it the 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.000 loneliness, the stress, whatever it was. Isn't it better to 0:06:24.000 --> 0:06:27.330 just deal with the roots of the problem, rather than 0:06:27.330 --> 0:06:30.210 trying to fix it with a quick boost that then will 0:06:30.210 --> 0:06:31.529 leave you feeling worse? 0:06:31.740 --> 0:06:33.330 Does it take quite a long time for people to 0:06:33.330 --> 0:06:36.089 accept that they might have a problem with overspending? 0:06:36.779 --> 0:06:39.539 There is a lot of denial around it. We can 0:06:39.540 --> 0:06:43.020 justify it in our minds and think that it's normal. 0:06:43.110 --> 0:06:46.380 I would invite people to think about what's this about? 0:06:46.380 --> 0:06:48.540 Why did I have to go out there and spend? 0:06:48.540 --> 0:06:51.690 Really acknowledge the cost, which is not just financial. It's 0:06:51.690 --> 0:06:55.410 also all the anxiety it leaves people with. 0:06:55.620 --> 0:07:00.839 Absolutely. In your book, you make a distinction between overspending 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.279 and financial self- sabotage, which is really interesting. Can you 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:07.529 tell me a bit more about why there's a difference 0:07:07.529 --> 0:07:08.159 between the two? 0:07:08.700 --> 0:07:13.050 Overspending can have so many different sources. One of the 0:07:13.050 --> 0:07:16.380 reasons why we might be doing it is because we're 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:20.580 unconsciously trying to get into financial trouble. I've seen people, 0:07:20.580 --> 0:07:23.550 for example, who were so scared of moving out of 0:07:23.550 --> 0:07:28.620 their parents house, of becoming financially dependent, they kept spending 0:07:28.620 --> 0:07:31.260 all their money, running out, so that they would have an 0:07:31.260 --> 0:07:35.400 excuse to stay home. Another example that I've seen was 0:07:35.430 --> 0:07:37.679 one young man who kept running out of money in 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.770 the first two weeks of the month. We were trying 0:07:40.770 --> 0:07:44.970 to spot patterns. The question that unlocked the case, so 0:07:44.970 --> 0:07:47.220 to speak, was when I asked, " Well, what do you 0:07:47.220 --> 0:07:49.650 do when you run out of money?" He said, " I 0:07:49.650 --> 0:07:53.520 call my dad." I said, " Okay, how's that relationship?" " Well, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.920 I never speak to him anymore now that my parents 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:56.970 divorce." 0:07:57.900 --> 0:07:57.989 Right. 0:07:57.990 --> 0:08:01.650 You realize, well, that was his motive. This overspending was 0:08:01.650 --> 0:08:05.610 all about ruining the financial situation so that he could 0:08:05.610 --> 0:08:07.980 still have a relationship with his dad that he didn't 0:08:07.980 --> 0:08:09.570 know how to have otherwise. 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:13.020 But once you'd unpacked that, it must have absolutely blown 0:08:13.020 --> 0:08:15.840 his mind to realize that that's why he was doing 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:16.680 what he was doing. 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.560 It opened up a difficult question, which is how can 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.500 I have a relationship with my dad outside of this? 0:08:22.770 --> 0:08:26.130 We needed to think about ways to build that relationship. 0:08:26.460 --> 0:08:29.520 Really, it was more about finding better coping strategies for 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:32.400 that relationship that would then have a positive knock- on 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.080 effect for how he was managing his money. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.050 Exactly. Overspending is one way to do it, but a 0:08:37.050 --> 0:08:40.530 lot of people sabotage their finances by not attending to 0:08:40.530 --> 0:08:43.950 them, not talking about money. Suddenly, they're in this big 0:08:43.950 --> 0:08:46.230 mess because they weren't opening the bills. 0:08:46.410 --> 0:08:46.589 Yeah. 0:08:46.830 --> 0:08:50.280 Begin to unpack, " What am I gaining from this situation? 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.370 Why am I doing this?" It could be because, at 0:08:53.370 --> 0:08:57.510 some level, you feel you deserve punishment and that's a 0:08:57.510 --> 0:09:01.500 very painful thing to uncover. Certain people might go through 0:09:01.500 --> 0:09:04.229 life with the sense that they don't deserve anything good. It 0:09:04.230 --> 0:09:07.740 could be because you desire rescue and that makes you 0:09:07.740 --> 0:09:09.571 feel looked after by other people. 0:09:09.571 --> 0:09:14.400 Do you think sometimes people also fear failing as well? 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.520 That might explain why sometimes people don't want to tackle 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.100 their finances, because that way, they can't fail at it. 0:09:20.850 --> 0:09:24.809 That's where sometimes the a- ha moment happens, when they 0:09:24.809 --> 0:09:27.449 see that actually, the very thing I was terrified of 0:09:27.450 --> 0:09:32.220 is happening through inaction. Is there a way for you 0:09:32.220 --> 0:09:35.370 to get more hold of your sense of agency and say, " 0:09:35.370 --> 0:09:39.059 Fine. I might not do it perfectly, but doing something 0:09:39.059 --> 0:09:42.030 is better than doing nothing." People carry a lot of 0:09:42.030 --> 0:09:44.579 shame when it comes to money, and a lot of 0:09:44.580 --> 0:09:48.300 fear as well. A lot of times, what helps with 0:09:48.300 --> 0:09:54.330 that financial anxiety is knowledge. It's beginning to identify what 0:09:54.330 --> 0:09:56.520 is the fear about? A lot of that could be 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.750 about not understanding the terminology, or not knowing what the 0:10:00.750 --> 0:10:01.770 options are. 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.800 And because it can also feel quite overwhelming. But I 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:08.010 guess, you got to start somewhere. Once you actually start 0:10:08.010 --> 0:10:10.530 looking into these things, they're probably not as scary as 0:10:10.530 --> 0:10:10.950 you think. 0:10:11.190 --> 0:10:14.520 That's right. In fact, when you look at research, more 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.809 than 50% of the population suffers from financial anxiety. The 0:10:18.809 --> 0:10:22.620 one thing that really decreases the level of anxiety is 0:10:22.620 --> 0:10:26.819 financial literacy. The more we know, the less anxious we 0:10:26.820 --> 0:10:27.780 feel about it. 0:10:27.840 --> 0:10:31.770 Hear, hear. Knowledge is power. With that in mind, let's 0:10:31.770 --> 0:10:35.760 get to know another concept, the scarcity mindset. How does 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.490 that lead to unhealthy financial behaviors? 0:10:39.090 --> 0:10:43.260 Scarcity mindset is the financial equivalent of seeing the glass 0:10:43.260 --> 0:10:44.100 half empty. 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:44.850 Right. 0:10:44.850 --> 0:10:49.410 You're focusing on what you don't have, rather than appreciating 0:10:49.410 --> 0:10:53.520 what you have and looking at the potential. A scarcity 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.670 mindset can be quite unhelpful because it leaves people feeling 0:10:57.270 --> 0:11:02.040 very afraid and insecure financially. Some people, when they feel 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:06.719 that way, they might feel paralyzed, rather than starting with 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.860 small steps that can help them feel more financial resilience. 0:11:11.130 --> 0:11:14.280 For example, putting away, even if it's five pounds a 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:18.660 week, can start building a safety net that's there for 0:11:18.660 --> 0:11:24.209 emergencies. Isn't that better than not doing anything? I've also 0:11:24.210 --> 0:11:31.230 seen people becoming very frugal or overworking, accumulating, hoarding money, 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.440 unable to enjoy it. Unable to ever feel like they 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:36.569 can stop and take a break, and say no to 0:11:36.570 --> 0:11:40.740 a project. It's just that anxiety that it generates when 0:11:40.740 --> 0:11:44.520 you feel like there just isn't enough, and you're constantly 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.030 battling with the worries about the future. 0:11:48.179 --> 0:11:52.319 I'm wondering if Ebeneezer Scrooge had the scarcity mindset. If 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.540 he was a real person, he would do. 0:11:55.050 --> 0:12:00.210 Absolutely. What you want is the opposite, the abundance mindset. 0:12:00.450 --> 0:12:04.079 Which is one in which you can feel satisfied as 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.449 much as one can when it comes to money, but 0:12:06.450 --> 0:12:08.880 at least you can appreciate that you have enough to 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.660 be doing certain things. Part of the definition of financial 0:12:12.660 --> 0:12:16.949 wellbeing is about feeling happy and in control of your 0:12:16.950 --> 0:12:20.819 financial choices. There's things that you can do to improve 0:12:20.820 --> 0:12:24.480 your situation. But we can also get creative and think, " 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.840 Well, maybe there is a little side gig I can start." I don't know, " 0:12:28.260 --> 0:12:31.110 I can sell a few things on Vinted or eBay." 0:12:31.110 --> 0:12:34.650 Or maybe I can start tutoring to get some extra 0:12:34.650 --> 0:12:38.429 cash. When we become paralyzed by fear, it stops any 0:12:38.429 --> 0:12:41.069 creative thinking and that's what we need to get hold 0:12:41.070 --> 0:12:42.420 of. What can I do? 0:12:42.929 --> 0:12:46.770 Can people start to want more money because they feel 0:12:46.770 --> 0:12:48.990 that what they have is never enough? Is that also 0:12:48.990 --> 0:12:50.610 an example of a scarcity mindset? 0:12:51.059 --> 0:12:54.675 Well, yes. It's a result of it. The problem is 0:12:54.675 --> 0:12:58.620 that the goalpost keeps moving. If you don't get to 0:12:58.620 --> 0:13:03.120 a place in which you can appreciate what you have 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:08.130 and work with those fears, reality check them. Am I 0:13:08.130 --> 0:13:11.700 catastrophizing when I feel I don't have enough? Then you 0:13:11.700 --> 0:13:14.580 won't be able to move past that, and there isn't 0:13:14.670 --> 0:13:17.429 enough money in the world that will help you feel 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:21.450 safe enough if that sense of unsafety is coming from 0:13:21.450 --> 0:13:23.700 somewhere else that isn't just financial. 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.410 Yes, because we do hear about incredibly wealthy people seemingly 0:13:28.410 --> 0:13:31.380 never satisfied with how much money they have. But is 0:13:31.380 --> 0:13:34.170 there some truth in the idea that, once you get 0:13:34.170 --> 0:13:37.020 to that point, you're no longer satisfied with what you've 0:13:37.020 --> 0:13:39.449 got? You're just thinking about what you can get next. 0:13:40.290 --> 0:13:42.809 I think it comes down to what is wealth for 0:13:42.809 --> 0:13:47.340 you, can you define that? Sometimes we get stuck thinking 0:13:47.340 --> 0:13:50.910 that things will make us happy. But actually, when you 0:13:50.910 --> 0:13:53.130 sit and think about the things that you value, it 0:13:53.130 --> 0:13:55.441 might be time with family and friends. 0:13:55.441 --> 0:13:56.221 Yeah. 0:13:56.640 --> 0:13:59.850 Sometimes when you are stuck in this greedy pursuit of 0:13:59.850 --> 0:14:03.690 wealth, it really begs the question, well, have you attached 0:14:03.690 --> 0:14:06.929 more to money than it can actually deliver to you? 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.559 Is it that you're imagining it will make you more 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:15.240 lovable, it will attract more friends? There's all these symbolic 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.719 meanings that we give to money, and then some people 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.270 have the fortune or misfortune of finding out when they 0:14:21.270 --> 0:14:23.790 have enough wealth that actually money didn't deliver on its 0:14:23.790 --> 0:14:24.540 promise. 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:26.670 Yeah, you never want to get to that point where 0:14:26.670 --> 0:14:30.090 you work so hard, and then you realize actually, it 0:14:30.090 --> 0:14:32.340 wasn't the money that I needed after all, it was something 0:14:32.340 --> 0:14:36.420 else. Yeah. For those listening who think that they might 0:14:36.420 --> 0:14:40.770 have a scarcity mindset, what would you recommend for them, 0:14:40.770 --> 0:14:43.680 in terms of turning that around and creating more of 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:44.700 an abundance mindset? 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:49.590 One thing is to catch yourself thinking about what you 0:14:49.590 --> 0:14:54.030 don't have and try to very actively just shift what 0:14:54.030 --> 0:14:57.840 you're focusing on to what you have. You might write 0:14:57.900 --> 0:15:00.870 a gratitude journal about all the things that the money 0:15:00.870 --> 0:15:04.890 that you have spent so far has helped you enjoy, 0:15:04.890 --> 0:15:09.420 be it holidays or education. Some people find journaling really 0:15:09.420 --> 0:15:13.890 helpful and it can be jotting the patterns. Or even, 0:15:13.890 --> 0:15:18.810 just brainstorming with open questions. When I think about money, 0:15:18.810 --> 0:15:21.900 I feel X. Or even going back to the first 0:15:21.900 --> 0:15:25.080 money memories, that can be quite insightful. If all you 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:29.340 remember was parents taking a deep sigh at the till, 0:15:29.490 --> 0:15:33.180 then you might begin to understand why you avoid the 0:15:33.180 --> 0:15:35.760 topic of money. Or if you watched them argue about 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.220 it a lot when you were little, then you might 0:15:38.220 --> 0:15:41.340 be avoiding the topic in your relationship. But there's a 0:15:41.340 --> 0:15:45.270 lot of other things that can keep fueling this scarcity 0:15:45.270 --> 0:15:49.650 mindset, like too much social media exposure. Are you always 0:15:49.650 --> 0:15:53.130 looking at what other people have and comparing yourself unfairly 0:15:53.130 --> 0:15:56.250 to that? Well, maybe try to do less of that. 0:15:56.820 --> 0:16:00.330 Sometimes it's also about watching out what we read, because 0:16:00.570 --> 0:16:04.620 there's a lot of news that maybe end up making 0:16:04.620 --> 0:16:08.370 you feel more anxious. Choose reading that is more nurturing, 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.340 in which you're actually learning how you can improve your 0:16:11.340 --> 0:16:15.690 situation, rather than dwelling into how much worse things could 0:16:15.690 --> 0:16:19.980 get. Paying attention to all these things can really shift 0:16:20.490 --> 0:16:25.290 your perspective onto what is within your control, what you 0:16:25.290 --> 0:16:26.970 can do differently. 0:16:27.180 --> 0:16:30.300 Absolutely. One of my mottos is focus on what's doable. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.480 We can't achieve a perfect scenario with our finances, but 0:16:33.540 --> 0:16:36.510 there are things that we can do. It's about getting 0:16:36.510 --> 0:16:37.410 on with those things. 0:16:37.410 --> 0:16:37.740 Yeah. 0:16:38.190 --> 0:16:42.090 Can you suggest three simple money habits that will make 0:16:42.090 --> 0:16:45.480 us feel more secure and satisfied when it comes to 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:45.780 money? 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.495 Well, money is still a big taboo. I would say 0:16:48.495 --> 0:16:50.820 the first one is talk about it with people you 0:16:50.820 --> 0:16:53.970 trust. If you're worried about money, why not open up to 0:16:53.970 --> 0:16:56.940 somebody? You might find that they either have the same 0:16:56.940 --> 0:17:00.480 worries, or might have some information that is useful. Talking 0:17:00.480 --> 0:17:03.960 about it can help you make sense of things. My 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:08.640 second tip would be create a dedicated time in which 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:13.230 you attend to finances. That's helpful for people on all 0:17:13.230 --> 0:17:16.320 ends of the spectrum. Find a time, maybe in the 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:19.590 week or in the month, in which you will review 0:17:19.590 --> 0:17:23.460 your finances, maybe set some goals or look at your 0:17:23.460 --> 0:17:27.600 accounts, whatever it is, and don't miss it. If you're 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:29.430 a couple, maybe it can be a money date in 0:17:29.430 --> 0:17:33.240 which you jointly do that and talk about your finances. 0:17:34.109 --> 0:17:37.800 Finally, I would say be curious about why you do 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:41.010 what you do with money. Pick up on the patterns. " 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:44.639 Oh, I always overspend when I'm out with friends." Or, " 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.910 It's always on a Sunday when I'm feeling lonely." I 0:17:47.910 --> 0:17:51.869 think start by asking yourself why more often. That would 0:17:51.869 --> 0:17:52.710 be my third tip. 0:17:52.890 --> 0:17:54.930 Vicky, this has been a fascinating conversation. 0:17:55.050 --> 0:17:56.220 Oh, thank you very much. 0:17:58.109 --> 0:18:01.200 Thank you so much, Vicky. Lots of a- ha moments 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.600 there, for sure. Next time on the show, I'll be 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:07.140 joined by Helen Tupper from Amazing If to talk about 0:18:07.140 --> 0:18:10.109 why our career paths need to be less linear and 0:18:10.109 --> 0:18:12.899 more squiggly. I'd love it if you could follow the 0:18:12.900 --> 0:18:15.720 podcast, leave us a review, and help others get a 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:17.820 little bit richer, too. You can keep up with the 0:18:17.820 --> 0:18:22.830 show on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram @ legalandgeneral. Thanks for listening. 0:18:22.950 --> 0:18:24.659 Until next time, see you soon.