WEBVTT - CHANGING CAREER LATER IN LIFE 0:00:01.660 --> 0:00:06.049 Welcome to Rewirement with me, Angellica Bell. This is the 0:00:06.050 --> 0:00:10.610 podcast where we share tips, inspiration, and stories from amazing 0:00:10.610 --> 0:00:14.850 people living colorful retirements brought to you by Legal and 0:00:14.850 --> 0:00:19.239 General. Life begins where the day job ends. So I'm 0:00:19.250 --> 0:00:20.970 on a mission to find out how you and I 0:00:20.970 --> 0:00:25.180 can take inspiration and wisdom from real people's retirement stories. 0:00:25.810 --> 0:00:28.830 This time we're looking at what it means to successfully 0:00:28.830 --> 0:00:33.720 change career in later life. Yes, it is possible. If 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.010 you've got a passion or a dream you'd like to 0:00:36.010 --> 0:00:38.970 turn into your work, or maybe you face redundancy in 0:00:38.970 --> 0:00:42.540 your 50s and are thinking of retraining, listen on because 0:00:42.540 --> 0:00:45.220 I'm speaking to two people who've aced it in their 0:00:45.220 --> 0:00:48.370 own unique ways. I'll also be having a chat with 0:00:48.370 --> 0:00:51.349 Legal and General's Emma Byron and Stuart Lewis from Rest 0:00:51.349 --> 0:00:56.249 Less for the practical tips, mental, financial, and emotional they 0:00:56.250 --> 0:01:00.820 think you can use to change career in style. These 0:01:00.820 --> 0:01:04.610 days we're working longer, working later, and have on average 0:01:04.610 --> 0:01:08.300 five to seven career changes in our lives. That's quite 0:01:08.300 --> 0:01:11.609 a difference to the trade for life generations of yesteryear. 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.670 What's more, research says that the over 50s are responsible 0:01:15.670 --> 0:01:20.459 for a staggering 82% of the UK's employment growth. Sometimes 0:01:20.459 --> 0:01:23.589 though, even if you're enjoying your current job, life can 0:01:23.589 --> 0:01:26.440 force your hand. And that's what happened with my first 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.890 guest Mick. He had four years notice when the colliery 0:01:29.890 --> 0:01:32.669 he was working at was set to close. But after 0:01:32.670 --> 0:01:36.060 a life's career in mining, he felt 51 was too 0:01:36.060 --> 0:01:41.209 young to retire. So Mick I think you're the only person 0:01:41.209 --> 0:01:44.840 I've ever spoken to with two red- footed tortoises. 0:01:45.410 --> 0:01:50.079 Yes. It's a pity I didn't bring them in for you to have a look 0:01:50.150 --> 0:01:52.790 at. They get well looked after, believe me. 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:54.560 Do they get better looked after than you? 0:01:55.830 --> 0:01:57.940 Well, no. The wife looks after me like a king, 0:01:57.940 --> 0:02:00.721 I've got to say that. 0:02:00.721 --> 0:02:00.722 Oh! 0:02:00.722 --> 0:02:04.010 After 46 years of marriage I think we're doing all right. She puts me 0:02:04.010 --> 0:02:06.310 in line now and again like a good lady should 0:02:06.820 --> 0:02:08.010 and that's what it's all about. 0:02:08.410 --> 0:02:14.619 Tell me about how you decided to approach a change of direction 0:02:14.930 --> 0:02:15.850 in later life. 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:21.440 Basically all started, we knew the colliery, all the pitchers 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.970 people to call it, had a four year plan for closure. 0:02:25.190 --> 0:02:27.430 And as it got closer I thought, Oh my goodness, 0:02:27.810 --> 0:02:30.269 it's really going to happen this time. And they started having interviews 0:02:32.169 --> 0:02:35.410 with people and asking you what you wanted to do. 0:02:35.970 --> 0:02:39.079 And there was what they call the regeneration bond at 0:02:39.079 --> 0:02:42.250 the time. They would help you pay for something if 0:02:42.250 --> 0:02:46.549 you wanted to do it. People were going in stupid, " Listen, 0:02:46.549 --> 0:02:48.240 I want to be a pilot and I want to be 0:02:48.700 --> 0:02:51.189 this and that." I really didn't know what I wanted to do. 0:02:51.190 --> 0:02:54.220 And I was opening the local paper and I looked 0:02:55.220 --> 0:02:58.169 and it said, " Xscape are going to build a ski 0:02:58.169 --> 0:03:02.010 slope in Castleford." And I thought, wow! I've always skied, 0:03:02.799 --> 0:03:04.950 I want to be a ski instructor and the guy 0:03:04.950 --> 0:03:08.910 looked at me to say, " What?" I said, " Yeah." says " I'm quite a 0:03:08.910 --> 0:03:10.689 good skier", and I said, " It's something I'd like to 0:03:10.690 --> 0:03:13.250 do." He said, " Woah! This is your first one who 0:03:13.250 --> 0:03:16.570 has ever come to me with something like that." He says, " 0:03:16.570 --> 0:03:20.139 Find a course that you could go on and we'll 0:03:20.139 --> 0:03:23.500 pay for it." So I did my research found out 0:03:23.500 --> 0:03:26.149 I could go do a Level One as it were 0:03:26.149 --> 0:03:29.130 called, the Snowspot England Level One. And I did it 0:03:29.130 --> 0:03:34.269 at Sheffield Ski Slope. And by the time I got 0:03:34.269 --> 0:03:38.540 everything sorted when it came down to the mine closing, 0:03:39.300 --> 0:03:43.869 luckily I got a job straight away. And at the same 0:03:43.869 --> 0:03:45.850 time this says, " Have you drove a lot of machines 0:03:45.850 --> 0:03:48.440 down the coal mine?" I says, " Yeah." " How would you 0:03:48.440 --> 0:03:51.960 fancy being a driver on our machine on the slope?" 0:03:52.290 --> 0:03:55.510 So I says, " Wow! Yeah, I'll do all that as 0:03:55.510 --> 0:03:59.140 well." So not only am I a ski instructor, I'm 0:03:59.140 --> 0:04:01.930 the guy who actually looks after the slope. It's just 0:04:01.930 --> 0:04:04.840 been a bit of a dream come true really, so. 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.760 I love that story because it's just quite a seamless 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.440 transition. Knowing what you wanted to do, did that help 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.570 with that transition and that emotional change that you had 0:04:14.570 --> 0:04:15.119 to go through? 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.010 Without a doubt. I think you've got to know what 0:04:18.010 --> 0:04:20.420 you want to do. There's a lot of people in 0:04:20.420 --> 0:04:23.969 life go around thinking someone's going to come to them. 0:04:23.969 --> 0:04:27.140 And it's nice if you know you've got a passion 0:04:27.140 --> 0:04:29.560 for something you want to do as well, which I 0:04:30.110 --> 0:04:33.440 really wanted to be a ski instructor. And the moment 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:35.680 I became one my life changed. 0:04:36.110 --> 0:04:39.429 You touched on something really important about having a passion, but 0:04:39.430 --> 0:04:43.219 were you worried, Mick, that this passion that you're turning 0:04:43.219 --> 0:04:46.520 into a job it might go in a bit wrong? 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:50.810 Yeah. There's no doubt about that. I think the first 0:04:50.810 --> 0:04:54.140 day walking into the job I thought, Oh my goodness, 0:04:54.140 --> 0:04:57.240 have I done the right thing? But I think you've 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:58.870 got to get over your fears and it depends what 0:04:58.870 --> 0:05:02.299 type of character you are. I've always been a bubbly character and 0:05:02.310 --> 0:05:05.419 I'll have a go at anything. And most things that 0:05:05.419 --> 0:05:08.990 I do do come out pretty well with it. So 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:12.489 I think having the right character as well knowing that 0:05:12.490 --> 0:05:14.020 you've just got to get out there and have a 0:05:14.020 --> 0:05:17.760 goal. I always say failure is on the road to success. 0:05:18.260 --> 0:05:21.080 What do you find the most enjoyable about this new career? 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:27.039 I think meeting lots of people. And not just meeting 0:05:27.039 --> 0:05:30.390 people, being able to pass on that passion. When you 0:05:30.390 --> 0:05:33.529 get on top of that mountain and you look down 0:05:33.630 --> 0:05:38.700 at that slope you think, wow, everybody should enjoy this. 0:05:39.620 --> 0:05:45.359 My oldest student, I think she was 75. My oldest 0:05:45.359 --> 0:05:49.370 student she came out and took to it like a 0:05:49.370 --> 0:05:53.489 duck to water. She was amazing. And still comes back 0:05:53.490 --> 0:05:58.440 now skiing. We've got a chap, just before the last 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:04.919 lockdown, 82 years old comes regular all the time. Probably 0:06:04.919 --> 0:06:07.400 once or twice a week he comes with his son. You 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:13.130 know it's fabulous to see the buzz in people's eyes. So it's you got to come 0:06:13.130 --> 0:06:13.650 and try it. 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:16.140 So what advice would you give to other people who 0:06:16.140 --> 0:06:18.500 are reaching that age of retirement and are a bit 0:06:18.500 --> 0:06:19.500 worried about it? 0:06:19.900 --> 0:06:22.570 I think you've got to get a plan into place, 0:06:22.979 --> 0:06:25.949 there's no doubt about that. It's no use thinking, Oh, 0:06:25.979 --> 0:06:28.270 I'm just going to retire and do nothing because you can 0:06:28.270 --> 0:06:33.689 become an armchair statistic, and end up being on an 0:06:33.690 --> 0:06:37.080 iPad all day and doing nothing. I've got a couple 0:06:37.089 --> 0:06:39.409 of friends of mine who only work two or three 0:06:39.409 --> 0:06:43.159 days a week, so they've retired and then still taken 0:06:43.159 --> 0:06:46.190 another job. But I've always said to people, " Make sure 0:06:46.190 --> 0:06:50.779 you've got a pension because pensions help you without a 0:06:50.779 --> 0:06:54.699 doubt." My son I told him from the very word go, " 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.770 Make sure you get a pension." And he's got a 0:06:57.770 --> 0:07:01.359 good pension at work and he's always paid extra into his pension 0:07:01.500 --> 0:07:05.339 so that when he comes to retire he'll have extra 0:07:05.740 --> 0:07:07.710 rather than just rely on what he's got to get. 0:07:09.349 --> 0:07:11.189 It's important because at the end of the day when 0:07:11.190 --> 0:07:14.460 you finish working, you will earn the money probably what 0:07:14.460 --> 0:07:16.499 you did when you were working. And it depends if you 0:07:16.500 --> 0:07:19.940 want to carry on a good lifestyle or whether you 0:07:19.940 --> 0:07:23.100 want to just sit back and do nothing. 0:07:23.100 --> 0:07:26.480 And do you have two pensions now? One from the 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.530 colliery and one from Snow Zone? 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.730 I've got the coal (inaudible) world pension. Yeah. And 0:07:32.730 --> 0:07:32.900 this in the Legal and General, 0:07:33.620 --> 0:07:36.360 Some people forget about the pensions they have as well. 0:07:37.690 --> 0:07:39.930 Lots of people have multiple ones, so it's good that 0:07:39.930 --> 0:07:42.790 you've got both, but make sure you know where it 0:07:42.790 --> 0:07:45.210 is and other members of your family do as well. 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:49.160 Yeah. My wife's good with finance. I've never paid a 0:07:49.170 --> 0:07:52.009 bill, believe it or not in my house. She sorts 0:07:52.010 --> 0:07:55.730 everything out. She worked at the local bank for years. 0:07:56.170 --> 0:07:59.260 She's edified and she's always looked after us, so that's 0:07:59.260 --> 0:08:03.420 good. And when my son makes any problems, he'll ring 0:08:03.420 --> 0:08:06.410 his mom and say, I need that, can you sort 0:08:06.410 --> 0:08:09.330 this out for me? So she's the head of the 0:08:09.330 --> 0:08:10.790 family, no doubt. 0:08:11.500 --> 0:08:14.009 Do you think it's never too late to reinvent yourself? 0:08:14.700 --> 0:08:18.910 Without a doubt, no, you've got to reinvent yourself. I 0:08:18.910 --> 0:08:22.489 think we're reinventing ourselves every day, don't we? I know 0:08:22.489 --> 0:08:27.939 where the iron is in the kitchen, but after all 0:08:27.940 --> 0:08:32.130 these years I still haven't used it. So I'm going 0:08:32.130 --> 0:08:35.370 to reinvent myself and I'm going iron something this next week, just for 0:08:35.370 --> 0:08:36.309 you, how's that? 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.360 Mick's definitely got the balance right, a job he loves, 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.170 great friends and plenty of time to spend with his 0:08:44.170 --> 0:08:48.489 wife, children, and grandchildren too. He's even been awarded a 0:08:48.490 --> 0:08:52.819 prestigious National Customer Service Award for his amazing work, getting 0:08:52.819 --> 0:08:57.290 people onto the slopes. My next guest also made a 0:08:57.290 --> 0:08:59.959 change to her work at 50, but it was far 0:08:59.959 --> 0:09:03.000 from the end of her career. Jackie says she's probably 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:07.540 going to still be working when she's a hundred. Jackie, 0:09:07.620 --> 0:09:09.920 today we're talking about changing career in later life. I 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:11.929 like to call it reinvention. 0:09:12.140 --> 0:09:16.480 Yes, it was a number of years ago, I retired 0:09:16.569 --> 0:09:20.700 at the age of 50. I was lucky enough to be able to do that. 0:09:21.439 --> 0:09:23.260 Jackie, some people might say that you've had the best 0:09:23.260 --> 0:09:26.300 of both worlds because you did actually enjoy your career. 0:09:26.300 --> 0:09:27.580 So tell us about it. 0:09:28.110 --> 0:09:33.300 I was advised by my parents early on that going 0:09:33.300 --> 0:09:38.470 in [source, inaudible 00:09:33] I initially wanted to do, psychology, was not 0:09:38.470 --> 0:09:41.609 going to earn me lots of money. And I had 0:09:41.610 --> 0:09:45.660 to work out was that important to me? What was 0:09:45.660 --> 0:09:48.069 important to me, it was to do well for my 0:09:48.069 --> 0:09:52.859 family, at that point to support my family as I 0:09:52.860 --> 0:09:55.969 intended it to be going forward. So I went into 0:09:55.970 --> 0:10:00.870 business and I joined various companies and ended up in 0:10:00.870 --> 0:10:03.890 a blue chip company and was lucky enough to have 0:10:03.890 --> 0:10:08.770 the opportunity to train, gain promotions. I ended up running 0:10:08.839 --> 0:10:12.929 the cargo division of an airline and on the way 0:10:12.929 --> 0:10:18.040 I educated myself, I took every course that was available. 0:10:18.380 --> 0:10:24.120 I developed myself in various specific aspects, but also gained 0:10:24.470 --> 0:10:26.059 academic qualification. 0:10:26.329 --> 0:10:28.130 Did you know what you wanted to do then, did you have 0:10:28.130 --> 0:10:32.540 a plan or a bucket list so to speak, what happened? 0:10:32.770 --> 0:10:36.620 So psychology was where I was going. So I went 0:10:36.620 --> 0:10:41.170 back to university. I got another degree in psychology and 0:10:41.170 --> 0:10:44.429 sociology and then followed that up with a master's. My 0:10:44.429 --> 0:10:49.410 master's was in forensic psychology. What drove that was that 0:10:49.809 --> 0:10:54.219 I had started voluntary work at a local prison for 0:10:54.219 --> 0:10:58.280 children, which then developed into other things. So I took early 0:10:58.630 --> 0:11:02.790 retirement from my business career, but I actually didn't retire 0:11:03.089 --> 0:11:07.040 or in my mind I didn't retire at all. So 0:11:07.050 --> 0:11:12.050 I suppose my desire to help young people dates right 0:11:12.050 --> 0:11:17.150 back to where I was young myself. And didn't see 0:11:17.309 --> 0:11:21.459 the sort of equality that I wanted to see. Bringing 0:11:21.459 --> 0:11:25.670 up a family is not easy, and therefore there are 0:11:25.670 --> 0:11:29.700 going to be high points and low points in that process. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:32.719 And I had them just like every other mother had 0:11:32.719 --> 0:11:36.969 them. And some of the things that I saw and some 0:11:36.969 --> 0:11:42.300 of the friends of my children that I saw, made 0:11:42.300 --> 0:11:50.050 me want to try and make things better for children generally. 0:11:50.829 --> 0:11:54.270 So you're just going to keep learning, aren't you? You seem to 0:11:54.270 --> 0:11:59.819 have this necessity to not stop, but it's not even 0:11:59.819 --> 0:12:02.859 about not stopping, it's continued to educate yourself and that's 0:12:02.860 --> 0:12:03.890 quite empowering, isn't it? 0:12:04.449 --> 0:12:10.990 Very empowering. The terminology around educating yourself sounds a bit 0:12:11.069 --> 0:12:16.410 pompous, but it's not about that. It's about keep learning 0:12:16.750 --> 0:12:18.850 and it doesn't matter what you learn. It can be 0:12:18.850 --> 0:12:25.780 from gardening to cooking, to understanding a particular genre, whatever 0:12:25.780 --> 0:12:30.469 it is. I'm good at taking photographs, anything, it's that 0:12:31.079 --> 0:12:35.589 mindset again, of saying there is so much out there 0:12:35.589 --> 0:12:39.689 to keep me interested. And if you stimulate your interest 0:12:39.689 --> 0:12:42.560 in life, then your life is going to be better. 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:48.619 And also having a positive mental attitude and whatever comes 0:12:48.620 --> 0:12:52.770 your way, any trauma or experience that comes into your life, 0:12:52.770 --> 0:12:54.619 it's the way you look at things. And that's something that 0:12:54.620 --> 0:12:56.429 you are quite passionate about, isn't it? 0:12:57.130 --> 0:12:59.770 You cannot go through your life on an even keel 0:12:59.770 --> 0:13:03.100 in my view, however big or small they are, they 0:13:03.670 --> 0:13:08.670 seek to disrupt and having a positive attitude towards dealing 0:13:08.670 --> 0:13:11.839 with those issues helps you to get through them. The 0:13:11.839 --> 0:13:16.410 important thing to get out of those issues is to actually enjoy 0:13:16.410 --> 0:13:19.610 what you're doing because that lifts your spirit. 0:13:19.860 --> 0:13:21.550 Is there any examples you can give us? 0:13:21.599 --> 0:13:24.809 Well, I've had a couple of medical traumas. I've had 0:13:25.010 --> 0:13:28.300 breast cancer. That was when I went back to university. 0:13:28.300 --> 0:13:32.609 I had breast cancer, chemo and radiotherapy. Being at university 0:13:32.610 --> 0:13:33.890 just helped me to go through it. 0:13:33.949 --> 0:13:36.380 So you didn't stop, you just kept going? 0:13:36.819 --> 0:13:40.429 Yeah, I didn't stop. I kept going. I wore a 0:13:40.429 --> 0:13:44.869 wig. I wished I'd been more adventurous in the color 0:13:44.870 --> 0:13:48.000 of my wig, but exactly the same as my hair. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:51.470 Would you go with a pink, pink or a blue? 0:13:51.569 --> 0:13:52.819 I know, I wish I had. 0:13:54.270 --> 0:13:56.699 So tell me about life right now. What are you 0:13:56.699 --> 0:13:58.740 up to? You must be up to something, Jackie. 0:13:59.290 --> 0:14:02.250 Oh, I am. I am indeed. Having gone back to 0:14:02.250 --> 0:14:06.170 university, got a new degree, worked with children in prison. 0:14:06.380 --> 0:14:11.010 Then I took a teaching degree because I saw the 0:14:11.010 --> 0:14:14.939 lack of education in prison, and I wanted to teach 0:14:15.089 --> 0:14:18.709 children who were very disadvantaged and otherwise might end up 0:14:18.709 --> 0:14:23.020 in prison. So I actually got a teaching degree, teaching 0:14:23.060 --> 0:14:26.479 children that had been excluded from all other forms of 0:14:26.479 --> 0:14:29.690 education. So it didn't have much chance. And that was 0:14:29.690 --> 0:14:33.720 enormous fun, the parts, a lot of energy, actually. Then 0:14:33.720 --> 0:14:38.560 I got approached by my old university and asked if 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:43.139 I would like to teach them forensic psychology, because they 0:14:43.470 --> 0:14:47.750 treated forensic psychology as a niche subject. I was approached 0:14:47.750 --> 0:14:51.280 by somebody else who said, why didn't I go into 0:14:51.350 --> 0:14:55.370 local government, into politics? So I said, Oh, well, I'll 0:14:55.370 --> 0:14:58.620 give that a try. And that's the joy. That's the joy of 0:14:58.930 --> 0:15:03.870 being this age. The joy of being this age is that you can 0:15:03.870 --> 0:15:06.830 pick things up and you can enjoy them. And if 0:15:06.830 --> 0:15:08.880 you don't enjoy them, you can drop them and try 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:14.470 something else. So I tried that and then I decided 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:18.030 that I'd rather like the idea of local politics. So 0:15:18.030 --> 0:15:22.889 I became a Parish Counselor initially, then a District Counselor, 0:15:23.210 --> 0:15:26.540 and then a County Counselor at West Sussex County council. 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.940 And I'm still all three of those plus I still 0:15:29.940 --> 0:15:35.859 teach at Reading University. But going forward, I've started to 0:15:35.860 --> 0:15:39.130 write a book, to write a trilogy, actually. 0:15:39.810 --> 0:15:41.350 Where do you have the time Jackie? 0:15:41.500 --> 0:15:45.001 Oh, there's a time in the day to find it. (inaudible) 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.239 Well, Jackie, there's a pattern here because you say that 0:15:48.240 --> 0:15:52.340 we should plan, think ahead for retirement, and you've got 0:15:52.340 --> 0:15:57.170 this trilogy mapped out and planned already, which is fantastic. 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:01.060 So is that one of your key pieces of advice 0:16:01.060 --> 0:16:04.609 for someone thinking about retirement? Are there any other nuggets 0:16:04.609 --> 0:16:05.770 that you can share with us? 0:16:05.979 --> 0:16:08.530 I think the key things to take account of are 0:16:08.910 --> 0:16:14.220 to think very carefully about what you enjoy doing and 0:16:14.220 --> 0:16:18.840 how you might do that. Once you've worked that out, 0:16:19.130 --> 0:16:22.609 you've got to follow that dream if you like in 0:16:22.609 --> 0:16:28.070 terms of making that happen. And once you've got a 0:16:28.070 --> 0:16:30.479 plan in place, so we come back to the plan, 0:16:30.780 --> 0:16:35.440 you then realistically work towards it. But what you need 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.380 to understand is that plan can change, just because you 0:16:39.380 --> 0:16:42.010 think he wants to do something. It might not work 0:16:42.010 --> 0:16:45.950 out like that. It might work out that it wasn't 0:16:45.950 --> 0:16:48.630 quite so exciting or it wasn't quite what you wanted. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:52.580 So be prepared to change and don't see it as 0:16:52.580 --> 0:16:56.430 a failure if you don't like or achieve what you 0:16:56.430 --> 0:17:00.340 want, see it as an opportunity to try something else. 0:17:00.690 --> 0:17:01.550 What's your next plan? 0:17:01.850 --> 0:17:05.730 I want to do more work with vulnerable children and 0:17:05.730 --> 0:17:10.229 vulnerable families through the County Council because that's where I 0:17:10.230 --> 0:17:14.002 think my focus is probably best (inaudible) . 0:17:14.030 --> 0:17:16.210 So I guess that goes back to the Ethos, that 0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:21.239 there's always a plan. Jackie actually got to a point 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:23.330 in her business career where she was looking for the 0:17:23.330 --> 0:17:26.450 next step and proposed her own retirement package to her 0:17:26.450 --> 0:17:30.690 boss, kudos to her for negotiating what she wanted and 0:17:30.690 --> 0:17:34.459 moving on to her dream of studying psychology. Jackie and Mick 0:17:34.919 --> 0:17:38.330 both said how important your state of mind and attitude 0:17:38.330 --> 0:17:41.830 is when you're thinking about a new path, dive in, 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.139 make things happen, and don't wait for the opportunities to 0:17:45.139 --> 0:17:48.580 come to you. But what do you do if you're 0:17:48.580 --> 0:17:52.240 not sure which passion is calling you, maybe you're worried 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.609 about money or you even lack confidence in later life, 0:17:55.909 --> 0:17:59.179 you might be selling yourself short. For some smart tips 0:17:59.180 --> 0:18:01.800 that could work for you, I'm joined by Legal and 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:06.680 General's managing director of retirement solutions, Emma Byron and Stewart Lewis, 0:18:06.790 --> 0:18:10.580 the founder and CEO of Rest Less, a community founded 0:18:10.580 --> 0:18:19.609 to inspire the over 50s. Thank you both for joining 0:18:20.659 --> 0:18:23.190 me. I want to go to you first Stewart, tell me about Rest Less and 0:18:23.460 --> 0:18:25.520 what your motive was for setting it up. 0:18:26.159 --> 0:18:28.290 Say the trigger point for me actually was when my 0:18:28.290 --> 0:18:31.629 father passed away. Firstly, I realized for myself that I 0:18:31.629 --> 0:18:34.230 wasn't getting any younger and I'd always wanted to have 0:18:34.230 --> 0:18:36.330 more of a social impact. So it's kind of my 0:18:36.330 --> 0:18:39.590 now or never moment for myself. I think perhaps more 0:18:39.590 --> 0:18:44.070 personally for Rest Less, reflecting on dad's life and many 0:18:44.070 --> 0:18:47.869 happy memories actually, realizing that he'd been retired for 36 0:18:47.869 --> 0:18:50.590 years, longer than the 35 years he'd been in the 0:18:50.590 --> 0:18:53.779 workplace. And that got me thinking that he won't be 0:18:53.780 --> 0:18:56.399 the only one with rising life expectancy. More and more 0:18:56.399 --> 0:18:58.530 people will be looking to make the most of this 0:18:58.530 --> 0:19:01.959 significant transition period in life. And yet there were so 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:04.960 few resources out there. So when we looked around, we 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:06.859 saw there was a real opportunity to build something like 0:19:06.859 --> 0:19:10.520 Rest Less, to help people navigate through this exciting but 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:11.399 daunting time. 0:19:11.399 --> 0:19:14.790 And sometimes it is a personal experience that makes you 0:19:14.790 --> 0:19:18.939 think about it because often we just think of retirement is something we'll do way 0:19:18.940 --> 0:19:21.700 back in the future, but it's something we need to be thinking about now really, 0:19:21.700 --> 0:19:21.979 isn't it? 0:19:23.149 --> 0:19:25.909 The whole three- stage model of life where you educate, you work, and then 0:19:27.260 --> 0:19:30.540 you retire has been upended. And the bit that's new 0:19:30.540 --> 0:19:34.220 is this concept of retirement doesn't really work anymore. Like 0:19:34.450 --> 0:19:36.790 the concept that you might work five days a week 0:19:36.790 --> 0:19:40.010 for four decades, and then go retire Cold Turkey, just 0:19:40.010 --> 0:19:45.040 doesn't exist. It's all about a time of transition, whether 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:49.300 it's a single transition, multiple transitions, it's around helping people 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.320 achieve what the goals and ambitions that they have for 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:55.320 this stage in life. And it's a new pioneering time 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:58.310 that perhaps their parents' generation didn't have the good fortune 0:19:58.310 --> 0:19:59.500 to experience in the same way. 0:19:59.750 --> 0:20:02.830 No, exactly. Do you think lots more people are changing careers 0:20:03.210 --> 0:20:05.680 later in life these days, and what sort of examples do 0:20:05.919 --> 0:20:06.340 you see? 0:20:06.429 --> 0:20:09.899 Absolutely. Coming back to this point of transition, we see 0:20:09.970 --> 0:20:12.969 people are considering what they want to get out of 0:20:13.510 --> 0:20:16.310 this kind of next 20 year period in life. But 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.790 the roots are so diverse for each individual. One of the 0:20:19.869 --> 0:20:22.619 things I always point out is how diverse a group 0:20:22.619 --> 0:20:26.310 today's 50 and 60 year olds are almost more diverse 0:20:26.310 --> 0:20:28.369 than any other age group because of three decades of 0:20:28.369 --> 0:20:31.009 different life experience. And it brings you out in a very different 0:20:31.010 --> 0:20:34.219 place actually. So we see that when it comes to 0:20:34.220 --> 0:20:38.310 careers as well. So we have experienced business professionals looking 0:20:38.310 --> 0:20:41.120 to get into teaching. We have people who've taught for 0:20:41.129 --> 0:20:43.379 25 years who are desperate to get out of teaching 0:20:43.609 --> 0:20:47.609 and everything in between. I think what's fascinating is peak 0:20:47.609 --> 0:20:51.320 earnings, according to ONS data for all of us on 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.869 average, are in our 40s. For some people it's in 0:20:53.869 --> 0:20:56.940 their 70s, for some people it's in their 30s. But 0:20:56.940 --> 0:20:59.169 on average is in our 40s, which shows that actually 0:20:59.169 --> 0:21:02.109 by the time people are considering career paths in their 0:21:02.109 --> 0:21:05.090 50s and again, in their 60s, they are typically looking 0:21:05.090 --> 0:21:09.119 for more rewarding, fulfilling career paths, perhaps that they may 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:11.350 have felt they didn't have the luxury of being able 0:21:11.350 --> 0:21:13.020 to pursue earlier in their careers. 0:21:13.260 --> 0:21:14.420 So it's not just about the money. 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:17.590 No, absolutely. One of our most read pieces of content 0:21:17.590 --> 0:21:21.730 on site is actually rewarding career ideas, which people seem 0:21:21.730 --> 0:21:24.119 to be really engaging more so now during the pandemic 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:28.230 than ever before actually. You do also see this kind 0:21:28.230 --> 0:21:31.499 of glide into retirement. I talked before around the idea 0:21:31.500 --> 0:21:35.330 of Cold Turkey and how that's actually really bad for 0:21:35.330 --> 0:21:37.679 people, and few people want to do that today. But 0:21:37.679 --> 0:21:41.919 you see the ratio, perhaps 75% of workers in their 0:21:41.919 --> 0:21:45.040 50s are working full- time; about 50% in their 60s 0:21:45.409 --> 0:21:48.439 and only 25% of those in their 70s who are working, 0:21:48.439 --> 0:21:50.470 are working full- time. You see this kind of nice 0:21:50.470 --> 0:21:53.850 soft glide into retirement now, which is quite nice way 0:21:53.850 --> 0:21:54.489 of thinking about it. 0:21:55.240 --> 0:21:57.320 Emma, I want to bring you in right now because 0:21:57.470 --> 0:22:01.189 it is inspiring talking about pursuing passions and dreams, but 0:22:01.189 --> 0:22:03.439 what are the more real concerns people have if they're 0:22:03.439 --> 0:22:06.419 facing a career change in their 50s or 60s? 0:22:06.869 --> 0:22:10.659 It can be very, very daunting. Unfortunately, if you're making 0:22:10.659 --> 0:22:12.530 a career change, it's most likely that your income is 0:22:12.540 --> 0:22:15.129 going to go down. And as you just said, we see that 0:22:15.129 --> 0:22:18.409 people at peak in terms of their income in their 40s, and then they're going to 0:22:18.810 --> 0:22:21.560 potentially see a fall in their income if they look 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.970 to change career. And it also might have been imposed 0:22:23.970 --> 0:22:26.730 on someone. So with redundancy and we heard from Mick's 0:22:26.730 --> 0:22:29.369 story earlier, that was tended to a fantastic positive from 0:22:29.369 --> 0:22:32.780 that redundancy. But of course that can be hugely terrifying 0:22:32.780 --> 0:22:34.550 for someone, if they've been in a career, they're being 0:22:34.550 --> 0:22:36.949 made redundant and they don't know what they're going to 0:22:36.950 --> 0:22:39.310 do next. So I think for people it's just really 0:22:39.310 --> 0:22:41.980 important to not panic if they're in that situation to 0:22:42.139 --> 0:22:44.899 take stock of it and think about how they're going to 0:22:44.899 --> 0:22:48.560 fund any fall in their income. That might be having 0:22:48.570 --> 0:22:50.560 a redundancy payout, that's going to help you to do 0:22:50.560 --> 0:22:53.639 that and using that money wisely as we submit it to 0:22:53.639 --> 0:22:57.300 retrain it in something else. The other important point is 0:22:57.300 --> 0:23:00.060 to remember that it might mean that you stop contributing 0:23:00.060 --> 0:23:02.889 to a pension and whatever possible you want to keep 0:23:02.889 --> 0:23:06.400