Angellica Bell: Welcome to Rewirement with me, Angellica Bell. This is the
Angellica Bell: podcast where we share tips, inspiration, and stories from amazing
Angellica Bell: people living colorful retirements brought to you by Legal and
Angellica Bell: General. Life begins where the day job ends. So I'm
Angellica Bell: on a mission to find out how you and I
Angellica Bell: can take inspiration and wisdom from real people's retirement stories.
Angellica Bell: This time we're looking at what it means to successfully
Angellica Bell: change career in later life. Yes, it is possible. If
Angellica Bell: you've got a passion or a dream you'd like to
Angellica Bell: turn into your work, or maybe you face redundancy in
Angellica Bell: your 50s and are thinking of retraining, listen on because
Angellica Bell: I'm speaking to two people who've aced it in their
Angellica Bell: own unique ways. I'll also be having a chat with
Angellica Bell: Legal and General's Emma Byron and Stuart Lewis from Rest
Angellica Bell: Less for the practical tips, mental, financial, and emotional they
Angellica Bell: think you can use to change career in style. These
Angellica Bell: days we're working longer, working later, and have on average
Angellica Bell: five to seven career changes in our lives. That's quite
Angellica Bell: a difference to the trade for life generations of yesteryear.
Angellica Bell: What's more, research says that the over 50s are responsible
Angellica Bell: for a staggering 82% of the UK's employment growth. Sometimes
Angellica Bell: though, even if you're enjoying your current job, life can
Angellica Bell: force your hand. And that's what happened with my first
Angellica Bell: guest Mick. He had four years notice when the colliery
Angellica Bell: he was working at was set to close. But after
Angellica Bell: a life's career in mining, he felt 51 was too
Angellica Bell: young to retire. So Mick I think you're the only person
Angellica Bell: I've ever spoken to with two red- footed tortoises.
Mick: Yes. It's a pity I didn't bring them in for you to have a look
Mick: at. They get well looked after, believe me.
Angellica Bell: Do they get better looked after than you?
Mick: Well, no. The wife looks after me like a king,
Mick: I've got to say that.
Angellica Bell: Oh!
Mick: After 46 years of marriage I think we're doing all right. She puts me
Mick: in line now and again like a good lady should
Mick: and that's what it's all about.
Angellica Bell: Tell me about how you decided to approach a change of direction
Angellica Bell: in later life.
Mick: Basically all started, we knew the colliery, all the pitchers
Mick: people to call it, had a four year plan for closure.
Mick: And as it got closer I thought, Oh my goodness,
Mick: it's really going to happen this time. And they started having interviews
Mick: with people and asking you what you wanted to do.
Mick: And there was what they call the regeneration bond at
Mick: the time. They would help you pay for something if
Mick: you wanted to do it. People were going in stupid, " Listen,
Mick: I want to be a pilot and I want to be
Mick: this and that." I really didn't know what I wanted to do.
Mick: And I was opening the local paper and I looked
Mick: and it said, " Xscape are going to build a ski
Mick: slope in Castleford." And I thought, wow! I've always skied,
Mick: I want to be a ski instructor and the guy
Mick: looked at me to say, " What?" I said, " Yeah." says " I'm quite a
Mick: good skier", and I said, " It's something I'd like to
Mick: do." He said, " Woah! This is your first one who
Mick: has ever come to me with something like that." He says, "
Mick: Find a course that you could go on and we'll
Mick: pay for it." So I did my research found out
Mick: I could go do a Level One as it were
Mick: called, the Snowspot England Level One. And I did it
Mick: at Sheffield Ski Slope. And by the time I got
Mick: everything sorted when it came down to the mine closing,
Mick: luckily I got a job straight away. And at the same
Mick: time this says, " Have you drove a lot of machines
Mick: down the coal mine?" I says, " Yeah." " How would you
Mick: fancy being a driver on our machine on the slope?"
Mick: So I says, " Wow! Yeah, I'll do all that as
Mick: well." So not only am I a ski instructor, I'm
Mick: the guy who actually looks after the slope. It's just
Mick: been a bit of a dream come true really, so.
Angellica Bell: I love that story because it's just quite a seamless
Angellica Bell: transition. Knowing what you wanted to do, did that help
Angellica Bell: with that transition and that emotional change that you had
Angellica Bell: to go through?
Mick: Without a doubt. I think you've got to know what
Mick: you want to do. There's a lot of people in
Mick: life go around thinking someone's going to come to them.
Mick: And it's nice if you know you've got a passion
Mick: for something you want to do as well, which I
Mick: really wanted to be a ski instructor. And the moment
Mick: I became one my life changed.
Angellica Bell: You touched on something really important about having a passion, but
Angellica Bell: were you worried, Mick, that this passion that you're turning
Angellica Bell: into a job it might go in a bit wrong?
Mick: Yeah. There's no doubt about that. I think the first
Mick: day walking into the job I thought, Oh my goodness,
Mick: have I done the right thing? But I think you've
Mick: got to get over your fears and it depends what
Mick: type of character you are. I've always been a bubbly character and
Mick: I'll have a go at anything. And most things that
Mick: I do do come out pretty well with it. So
Mick: I think having the right character as well knowing that
Mick: you've just got to get out there and have a
Mick: goal. I always say failure is on the road to success.
Angellica Bell: What do you find the most enjoyable about this new career?
Mick: I think meeting lots of people. And not just meeting
Mick: people, being able to pass on that passion. When you
Mick: get on top of that mountain and you look down
Mick: at that slope you think, wow, everybody should enjoy this.
Mick: My oldest student, I think she was 75. My oldest
Mick: student she came out and took to it like a
Mick: duck to water. She was amazing. And still comes back
Mick: now skiing. We've got a chap, just before the last
Mick: lockdown, 82 years old comes regular all the time. Probably
Mick: once or twice a week he comes with his son. You
Mick: know it's fabulous to see the buzz in people's eyes. So it's you got to come
Mick: and try it.
Angellica Bell: So what advice would you give to other people who
Angellica Bell: are reaching that age of retirement and are a bit
Angellica Bell: worried about it?
Mick: I think you've got to get a plan into place,
Mick: there's no doubt about that. It's no use thinking, Oh,
Mick: I'm just going to retire and do nothing because you can
Mick: become an armchair statistic, and end up being on an
Mick: iPad all day and doing nothing. I've got a couple
Mick: of friends of mine who only work two or three
Mick: days a week, so they've retired and then still taken
Mick: another job. But I've always said to people, " Make sure
Mick: you've got a pension because pensions help you without a
Mick: doubt." My son I told him from the very word go, "
Mick: Make sure you get a pension." And he's got a
Mick: good pension at work and he's always paid extra into his pension
Mick: so that when he comes to retire he'll have extra
Mick: rather than just rely on what he's got to get.
Mick: It's important because at the end of the day when
Mick: you finish working, you will earn the money probably what
Mick: you did when you were working. And it depends if you
Mick: want to carry on a good lifestyle or whether you
Mick: want to just sit back and do nothing.
Angellica Bell: And do you have two pensions now? One from the
Angellica Bell: colliery and one from Snow Zone?
Mick: I've got the coal (inaudible) world pension. Yeah. And
Mick: this in the Legal and General,
Angellica Bell: Some people forget about the pensions they have as well.
Angellica Bell: Lots of people have multiple ones, so it's good that
Angellica Bell: you've got both, but make sure you know where it
Angellica Bell: is and other members of your family do as well.
Mick: Yeah. My wife's good with finance. I've never paid a
Mick: bill, believe it or not in my house. She sorts
Mick: everything out. She worked at the local bank for years.
Mick: She's edified and she's always looked after us, so that's
Mick: good. And when my son makes any problems, he'll ring
Mick: his mom and say, I need that, can you sort
Mick: this out for me? So she's the head of the
Mick: family, no doubt.
Angellica Bell: Do you think it's never too late to reinvent yourself?
Mick: Without a doubt, no, you've got to reinvent yourself. I
Mick: think we're reinventing ourselves every day, don't we? I know
Mick: where the iron is in the kitchen, but after all
Mick: these years I still haven't used it. So I'm going
Mick: to reinvent myself and I'm going iron something this next week, just for
Mick: you, how's that?
Angellica Bell: Mick's definitely got the balance right, a job he loves,
Angellica Bell: great friends and plenty of time to spend with his
Angellica Bell: wife, children, and grandchildren too. He's even been awarded a
Angellica Bell: prestigious National Customer Service Award for his amazing work, getting
Angellica Bell: people onto the slopes. My next guest also made a
Angellica Bell: change to her work at 50, but it was far
Angellica Bell: from the end of her career. Jackie says she's probably
Angellica Bell: going to still be working when she's a hundred. Jackie,
Angellica Bell: today we're talking about changing career in later life. I
Angellica Bell: like to call it reinvention.
Jackie: Yes, it was a number of years ago, I retired
Jackie: at the age of 50. I was lucky enough to be able to do that.
Angellica Bell: Jackie, some people might say that you've had the best
Angellica Bell: of both worlds because you did actually enjoy your career.
Angellica Bell: So tell us about it.
Jackie: I was advised by my parents early on that going
Jackie: in [source, inaudible 00:09:33] I initially wanted to do, psychology, was not
Jackie: going to earn me lots of money. And I had
Jackie: to work out was that important to me? What was
Jackie: important to me, it was to do well for my
Jackie: family, at that point to support my family as I
Jackie: intended it to be going forward. So I went into
Jackie: business and I joined various companies and ended up in
Jackie: a blue chip company and was lucky enough to have
Jackie: the opportunity to train, gain promotions. I ended up running
Jackie: the cargo division of an airline and on the way
Jackie: I educated myself, I took every course that was available.
Jackie: I developed myself in various specific aspects, but also gained
Jackie: academic qualification.
Angellica Bell: Did you know what you wanted to do then, did you have
Angellica Bell: a plan or a bucket list so to speak, what happened?
Jackie: So psychology was where I was going. So I went
Jackie: back to university. I got another degree in psychology and
Jackie: sociology and then followed that up with a master's. My
Jackie: master's was in forensic psychology. What drove that was that
Jackie: I had started voluntary work at a local prison for
Jackie: children, which then developed into other things. So I took early
Jackie: retirement from my business career, but I actually didn't retire
Jackie: or in my mind I didn't retire at all. So
Jackie: I suppose my desire to help young people dates right
Jackie: back to where I was young myself. And didn't see
Jackie: the sort of equality that I wanted to see. Bringing
Jackie: up a family is not easy, and therefore there are
Jackie: going to be high points and low points in that process.
Jackie: And I had them just like every other mother had
Jackie: them. And some of the things that I saw and some
Jackie: of the friends of my children that I saw, made
Jackie: me want to try and make things better for children generally.
Angellica Bell: So you're just going to keep learning, aren't you? You seem to
Angellica Bell: have this necessity to not stop, but it's not even
Angellica Bell: about not stopping, it's continued to educate yourself and that's
Angellica Bell: quite empowering, isn't it?
Jackie: Very empowering. The terminology around educating yourself sounds a bit
Jackie: pompous, but it's not about that. It's about keep learning
Jackie: and it doesn't matter what you learn. It can be
Jackie: from gardening to cooking, to understanding a particular genre, whatever
Jackie: it is. I'm good at taking photographs, anything, it's that
Jackie: mindset again, of saying there is so much out there
Jackie: to keep me interested. And if you stimulate your interest
Jackie: in life, then your life is going to be better.
Angellica Bell: And also having a positive mental attitude and whatever comes
Angellica Bell: your way, any trauma or experience that comes into your life,
Angellica Bell: it's the way you look at things. And that's something that
Angellica Bell: you are quite passionate about, isn't it?
Jackie: You cannot go through your life on an even keel
Jackie: in my view, however big or small they are, they
Jackie: seek to disrupt and having a positive attitude towards dealing
Jackie: with those issues helps you to get through them. The
Jackie: important thing to get out of those issues is to actually enjoy
Jackie: what you're doing because that lifts your spirit.
Angellica Bell: Is there any examples you can give us?
Jackie: Well, I've had a couple of medical traumas. I've had
Jackie: breast cancer. That was when I went back to university.
Jackie: I had breast cancer, chemo and radiotherapy. Being at university
Jackie: just helped me to go through it.
Angellica Bell: So you didn't stop, you just kept going?
Jackie: Yeah, I didn't stop. I kept going. I wore a
Jackie: wig. I wished I'd been more adventurous in the color
Jackie: of my wig, but exactly the same as my hair.
Angellica Bell: Would you go with a pink, pink or a blue?
Jackie: I know, I wish I had.
Angellica Bell: So tell me about life right now. What are you
Angellica Bell: up to? You must be up to something, Jackie.
Jackie: Oh, I am. I am indeed. Having gone back to
Jackie: university, got a new degree, worked with children in prison.
Jackie: Then I took a teaching degree because I saw the
Jackie: lack of education in prison, and I wanted to teach
Jackie: children who were very disadvantaged and otherwise might end up
Jackie: in prison. So I actually got a teaching degree, teaching
Jackie: children that had been excluded from all other forms of
Jackie: education. So it didn't have much chance. And that was
Jackie: enormous fun, the parts, a lot of energy, actually. Then
Jackie: I got approached by my old university and asked if
Jackie: I would like to teach them forensic psychology, because they
Jackie: treated forensic psychology as a niche subject. I was approached
Jackie: by somebody else who said, why didn't I go into
Jackie: local government, into politics? So I said, Oh, well, I'll
Jackie: give that a try. And that's the joy. That's the joy of
Jackie: being this age. The joy of being this age is that you can
Jackie: pick things up and you can enjoy them. And if
Jackie: you don't enjoy them, you can drop them and try
Jackie: something else. So I tried that and then I decided
Jackie: that I'd rather like the idea of local politics. So
Jackie: I became a Parish Counselor initially, then a District Counselor,
Jackie: and then a County Counselor at West Sussex County council.
Jackie: And I'm still all three of those plus I still
Jackie: teach at Reading University. But going forward, I've started to
Jackie: write a book, to write a trilogy, actually.
Angellica Bell: Where do you have the time Jackie?
Jackie: Oh, there's a time in the day to find it. (inaudible)
Angellica Bell: Well, Jackie, there's a pattern here because you say that
Angellica Bell: we should plan, think ahead for retirement, and you've got
Angellica Bell: this trilogy mapped out and planned already, which is fantastic.
Angellica Bell: So is that one of your key pieces of advice
Angellica Bell: for someone thinking about retirement? Are there any other nuggets
Angellica Bell: that you can share with us?
Jackie: I think the key things to take account of are
Jackie: to think very carefully about what you enjoy doing and
Jackie: how you might do that. Once you've worked that out,
Jackie: you've got to follow that dream if you like in
Jackie: terms of making that happen. And once you've got a
Jackie: plan in place, so we come back to the plan,
Jackie: you then realistically work towards it. But what you need
Jackie: to understand is that plan can change, just because you
Jackie: think he wants to do something. It might not work
Jackie: out like that. It might work out that it wasn't
Jackie: quite so exciting or it wasn't quite what you wanted.
Jackie: So be prepared to change and don't see it as
Jackie: a failure if you don't like or achieve what you
Jackie: want, see it as an opportunity to try something else.
Angellica Bell: What's your next plan?
Jackie: I want to do more work with vulnerable children and
Jackie: vulnerable families through the County Council because that's where I
Jackie: think my focus is probably best (inaudible) .
Angellica Bell: So I guess that goes back to the Ethos, that
Angellica Bell: there's always a plan. Jackie actually got to a point
Angellica Bell: in her business career where she was looking for the
Angellica Bell: next step and proposed her own retirement package to her
Angellica Bell: boss, kudos to her for negotiating what she wanted and
Angellica Bell: moving on to her dream of studying psychology. Jackie and Mick
Angellica Bell: both said how important your state of mind and attitude
Angellica Bell: is when you're thinking about a new path, dive in,
Angellica Bell: make things happen, and don't wait for the opportunities to
Angellica Bell: come to you. But what do you do if you're
Angellica Bell: not sure which passion is calling you, maybe you're worried
Angellica Bell: about money or you even lack confidence in later life,
Angellica Bell: you might be selling yourself short. For some smart tips
Angellica Bell: that could work for you, I'm joined by Legal and
Angellica Bell: General's managing director of retirement solutions, Emma Byron and Stewart Lewis,
Angellica Bell: the founder and CEO of Rest Less, a community founded
Angellica Bell: to inspire the over 50s. Thank you both for joining
Angellica Bell: me. I want to go to you first Stewart, tell me about Rest Less and
Angellica Bell: what your motive was for setting it up.
Stewart Lewis: Say the trigger point for me actually was when my
Stewart Lewis: father passed away. Firstly, I realized for myself that I
Stewart Lewis: wasn't getting any younger and I'd always wanted to have
Stewart Lewis: more of a social impact. So it's kind of my
Stewart Lewis: now or never moment for myself. I think perhaps more
Stewart Lewis: personally for Rest Less, reflecting on dad's life and many
Stewart Lewis: happy memories actually, realizing that he'd been retired for 36
Stewart Lewis: years, longer than the 35 years he'd been in the
Stewart Lewis: workplace. And that got me thinking that he won't be
Stewart Lewis: the only one with rising life expectancy. More and more
Stewart Lewis: people will be looking to make the most of this
Stewart Lewis: significant transition period in life. And yet there were so
Stewart Lewis: few resources out there. So when we looked around, we
Stewart Lewis: saw there was a real opportunity to build something like
Stewart Lewis: Rest Less, to help people navigate through this exciting but
Stewart Lewis: daunting time.
Angellica Bell: And sometimes it is a personal experience that makes you
Angellica Bell: think about it because often we just think of retirement is something we'll do way
Angellica Bell: back in the future, but it's something we need to be thinking about now really,
Angellica Bell: isn't it?
Stewart Lewis: The whole three- stage model of life where you educate, you work, and then
Stewart Lewis: you retire has been upended. And the bit that's new
Stewart Lewis: is this concept of retirement doesn't really work anymore. Like
Stewart Lewis: the concept that you might work five days a week
Stewart Lewis: for four decades, and then go retire Cold Turkey, just
Stewart Lewis: doesn't exist. It's all about a time of transition, whether
Stewart Lewis: it's a single transition, multiple transitions, it's around helping people
Stewart Lewis: achieve what the goals and ambitions that they have for
Stewart Lewis: this stage in life. And it's a new pioneering time
Stewart Lewis: that perhaps their parents' generation didn't have the good fortune
Stewart Lewis: to experience in the same way.
Angellica Bell: No, exactly. Do you think lots more people are changing careers
Angellica Bell: later in life these days, and what sort of examples do
Angellica Bell: you see?
Stewart Lewis: Absolutely. Coming back to this point of transition, we see
Stewart Lewis: people are considering what they want to get out of
Stewart Lewis: this kind of next 20 year period in life. But
Stewart Lewis: the roots are so diverse for each individual. One of the
Stewart Lewis: things I always point out is how diverse a group
Stewart Lewis: today's 50 and 60 year olds are almost more diverse
Stewart Lewis: than any other age group because of three decades of
Stewart Lewis: different life experience. And it brings you out in a very different
Stewart Lewis: place actually. So we see that when it comes to
Stewart Lewis: careers as well. So we have experienced business professionals looking
Stewart Lewis: to get into teaching. We have people who've taught for
Stewart Lewis: 25 years who are desperate to get out of teaching
Stewart Lewis: and everything in between. I think what's fascinating is peak
Stewart Lewis: earnings, according to ONS data for all of us on
Stewart Lewis: average, are in our 40s. For some people it's in
Stewart Lewis: their 70s, for some people it's in their 30s. But
Stewart Lewis: on average is in our 40s, which shows that actually
Stewart Lewis: by the time people are considering career paths in their
Stewart Lewis: 50s and again, in their 60s, they are typically looking
Stewart Lewis: for more rewarding, fulfilling career paths, perhaps that they may
Stewart Lewis: have felt they didn't have the luxury of being able
Stewart Lewis: to pursue earlier in their careers.
Angellica Bell: So it's not just about the money.
Stewart Lewis: No, absolutely. One of our most read pieces of content
Stewart Lewis: on site is actually rewarding career ideas, which people seem
Stewart Lewis: to be really engaging more so now during the pandemic
Stewart Lewis: than ever before actually. You do also see this kind
Stewart Lewis: of glide into retirement. I talked before around the idea
Stewart Lewis: of Cold Turkey and how that's actually really bad for
Stewart Lewis: people, and few people want to do that today. But
Stewart Lewis: you see the ratio, perhaps 75% of workers in their
Stewart Lewis: 50s are working full- time; about 50% in their 60s
Stewart Lewis: and only 25% of those in their 70s who are working,
Stewart Lewis: are working full- time. You see this kind of nice
Stewart Lewis: soft glide into retirement now, which is quite nice way
Stewart Lewis: of thinking about it.
Angellica Bell: Emma, I want to bring you in right now because
Angellica Bell: it is inspiring talking about pursuing passions and dreams, but
Angellica Bell: what are the more real concerns people have if they're
Angellica Bell: facing a career change in their 50s or 60s?
Emma Byron: It can be very, very daunting. Unfortunately, if you're making
Emma Byron: a career change, it's most likely that your income is
Emma Byron: going to go down. And as you just said, we see that
Emma Byron: people at peak in terms of their income in their 40s, and then they're going to
Emma Byron: potentially see a fall in their income if they look
Emma Byron: to change career. And it also might have been imposed
Emma Byron: on someone. So with redundancy and we heard from Mick's
Emma Byron: story earlier, that was tended to a fantastic positive from
Emma Byron: that redundancy. But of course that can be hugely terrifying
Emma Byron: for someone, if they've been in a career, they're being
Emma Byron: made redundant and they don't know what they're going to
Emma Byron: do next. So I think for people it's just really
Emma Byron: important to not panic if they're in that situation to
Emma Byron: take stock of it and think about how they're going to
Emma Byron: fund any fall in their income. That might be having
Emma Byron: a redundancy payout, that's going to help you to do
Emma Byron: that and using that money wisely as we submit it to
Emma Byron: retrain it in something else. The other important point is
Emma Byron: to remember that it might mean that you stop contributing
Emma Byron: to a pension and whatever possible you want to keep
Emma Byron: on saving. Clearly that might not always be practical to
Emma Byron: do so, but stopping those contributions, you're not going to
Emma Byron: be getting the tax benefit of doing that or adding
Emma Byron: the extra income on that as your investments grow. So
Emma Byron: wherever possible, make sure you're also thinking not just about
Emma Byron: funding the new and exciting opportunities, but also later into life that you've
Emma Byron: got enough there for your retirement. So that might mean
Emma Byron: you need to open a personal pension if you don't
Emma Byron: have an employer one anymore.
Angellica Bell: So I guess pension is the key word in what you're
Angellica Bell: just saying there. And it's about thinking about the earliest.
Angellica Bell: So if you're in your 40s, say, how can you
Angellica Bell: better prepare for that earlier in life?
Emma Byron: There's probably four things I'd say, so firstly, take stock,
Emma Byron: then save, save, save, save, save in case is really important, educate
Emma Byron: yourself as well. And then always continue to revisit your
Emma Byron: finances. So taking each of those in turn, often I
Emma Byron: think people sort of bury their head in the sand,
Emma Byron: they're quite scared of money, finances. It's one of those
Emma Byron: taboo subjects that people still don't talk about a lot,
Emma Byron: but actually the more honest you are with yourself in
Emma Byron: terms of what you're saving, the more financial freedom you're
Emma Byron: going to give yourself longer term. So taking stock, understanding
Emma Byron: what you've got, do you have an employer pension? Are
Emma Byron: they contributing? How much are you putting in? And there's
Emma Byron: lots of tools out there that will help you to
Emma Byron: see what that might look like in the future. And
Emma Byron: of course, back to the point that pensions are a
Emma Byron: tax efficient way of saving. So you don't pay any
Emma Byron: income tax on the money that's put into your pension,
Emma Byron: which is a huge benefit as long as you take into account.
Emma Byron: But also just trying to increase that slightly. You'll get
Emma Byron: that investment grows and the kind of compounding impact that
Emma Byron: will have over life, so that's really, really important. And
Emma Byron: then educate, I think people are scared if they don't
Emma Byron: understand stuff. So take the time to really educate yourself
Emma Byron: in that. There's lots of tools on most pension providers
Emma Byron: sites that will help to project how much you might
Emma Byron: have in the future, but also understanding things like there
Emma Byron: are annual caps on how much you can put into
Emma Byron: a pension, is about 40 grand. Most of us won't
Emma Byron: be lucky enough to hit that. And then there's a
Emma Byron: Lifetime Allowance and a million pounds as well. So make
Emma Byron: sure you understand that. And if you don't speak to a
Emma Byron: financial advisor, they're there to help you to make sure
Emma Byron: you save. So doing that, being really realistic with yourself,
Emma Byron: engaging with your finances on a regular basis, should hope
Emma Byron: to give you a lot more freedom when you finally
Emma Byron: reach retirement, because you've got that extra financial cushion to
Emma Byron: support you.
Angellica Bell: Emma, those great tips. really good. The other thing I
Angellica Bell: want to ask you is if you are planning ahead
Angellica Bell: for a career change, what sorts of other opportunities might
Angellica Bell: people look at?
Emma Byron: We saw the examples with Jackie and Mick, both fascinating
Emma Byron: stories. Jackie, very, very prepared and educating herself while still
Emma Byron: working to ensure that she had that plan in that
Emma Byron: transition into a future career. So I think always looking at evening
Emma Byron: courses, re- skilling is becoming increasingly important and back to
Emma Byron: what Stewart said, life isn't sort of work, work, work, then
Emma Byron: retire, but sort of different phases, a smoother transition. And
Emma Byron: if we're going to live for a hundred years, one
Emma Byron: of the really important things is to continue to educate
Emma Byron: yourself. And I think that for me is really key. I
Emma Byron: know that if like me, you've got a full- time
Emma Byron: job, three children, (inaudible) do a course in the
Emma Byron: evening might sound impossible, but I think where there's a
Emma Byron: will, there's a way in. I think Jackie's story is quite
Emma Byron: inspiring that shows if you really want to do it, .
Emma Byron: then you can make the time.
Angellica Bell: Going back to both Mick and Jackie, he mentioned he
Angellica Bell: had the option of retraining in his redundancy package. Jackie
Angellica Bell: had dived into academic learning and teaching. So Stewart, what opportunities
Angellica Bell: are there for people to expand their skillsets later in
Angellica Bell: life without breaking the bank, especially if you do want
Angellica Bell: to do a course and aren't thinking ahead?
Stewart Lewis: Yeah. There's a really wide range of opportunities for people
Stewart Lewis: to think about reskilling and retraining and so on. I
Stewart Lewis: think the first question comes down to what people are
Stewart Lewis: looking to achieve from it. So you have a growing
Stewart Lewis: number of people who are looking to learn just out
Stewart Lewis: of passion and this idea of lifelong learning and keeping
Stewart Lewis: your brain active and keeping your brain sharp because they're
Stewart Lewis: interested in stuff. And there's a wide range of free
Stewart Lewis: learning resources and materials out there to help people follow
Stewart Lewis: those kinds of passions and so on. There's a second
Stewart Lewis: wave of learning, which is around plugging a specific skills
Stewart Lewis: gap typically for the workplace. So maybe it is you
Stewart Lewis: work in sales and there's world of sales as being
Stewart Lewis: more automated. So actually there's a load of specific learning
Stewart Lewis: around technological sales platforms or Microsoft Excel or some form
Stewart Lewis: of very specific technical skills gap. And again, there's a
Stewart Lewis: number of kind of distance learning courses that you can
Stewart Lewis: take these days without breaking the bank. I think the
Stewart Lewis: final element of it is we're also seeing more people
Stewart Lewis: actually consider a complete rechange. And if they want to
Stewart Lewis: go into a new profession, whether teaching was example I
Stewart Lewis: gave before or youth worker or to become a counselor, it might
Stewart Lewis: require them to go back to university to take a
Stewart Lewis: degree course. And obviously they don't come free, but there
Stewart Lewis: are ways that people can arrange their studies, whether it's part-
Stewart Lewis: time while they're continuing to work, to try and minimize
Stewart Lewis: the financial impact on it. But for anyone looking for
Stewart Lewis: the first two scenarios where you're looking to plug a
Stewart Lewis: specific skills gap or you're looking to pursue a passion
Stewart Lewis: project, there are a range of free resources. The Open
Stewart Lewis: University is a great source of free learning opportunities. FutureLearn
Stewart Lewis: is another one. And actually on the Rest Less's platform,
Stewart Lewis: we host all of our free courses for both those
Stewart Lewis: organizations, as well as a number of others. So there's
Stewart Lewis: a number of different free learning resources out there.
Angellica Bell: And if anyone listening would like more information on those
Angellica Bell: learning platforms or even the websites, we'll be putting all
Angellica Bell: the details up in our show notes. In my job,
Angellica Bell: I meet so many people of the older generation and that they've
Angellica Bell: got this energy, but one thing they always say is
Angellica Bell: that I want to do this and I want to do that,
Angellica Bell: but I don't have the confidence. I won't be able
Angellica Bell: to do that. And I think lack of confidence is
Angellica Bell: one thing that prevents people of any age of going
Angellica Bell: for their passions and dreams. So what would your advice
Angellica Bell: be to anyone thinking of retiring and wanting to change or have
Angellica Bell: a desire to learn a new skillset?
Stewart Lewis: Yeah, absolutely. So as you say, lack of confidence or self
Stewart Lewis: limiting beliefs is one of the things that hold almost all
Stewart Lewis: of us back, right, whatever we want to do? I
Stewart Lewis: think one of the most helpful things, at least that
Stewart Lewis: I found is trying to reduce this idea of there's
Stewart Lewis: a big leap in front of me, because that feels daunting
Stewart Lewis: and the best way to reduce that is to start
Stewart Lewis: researching. And then you actually find out that your first
Stewart Lewis: step is not a big leap. Your first step is
Stewart Lewis: to read a load about it and understand what I'm
Stewart Lewis: getting myself in for. The more research I find out
Stewart Lewis: about a specific career path or about a specific opportunity,
Stewart Lewis: the less daunting it becomes and unclear that actually, okay,
Stewart Lewis: so what's the next hurdle, what's the next hurdle. And
Stewart Lewis: suddenly you're breaking down a number of really small bits
Stewart Lewis: of information, bits of research, small decisions that actually mean
Stewart Lewis: your big leap doesn't feel quite giants anymore. And you're
Stewart Lewis: building the bridge across the chasm.
Angellica Bell: Exactly. And I suppose as you get older as well, you've got more focus.
Angellica Bell: You're more likely to succeed as well, isn't it?
Stewart Lewis: There's a real rise in midlife, entrepreneurialism actually. The stats
Stewart Lewis: we always talk about is nearly one in two of
Stewart Lewis: all self- employed individuals are over the age of 50.
Stewart Lewis: And I think just that richness of life experience can
Stewart Lewis: be really helpful in helping people think laterally and think
Stewart Lewis: more broadly around what they want to achieve with the
Stewart Lewis: next 10, 15, 20 years ahead of them.
Angellica Bell: Fantastic. Stewart and Emma, thank you so much for talking
Angellica Bell: to me. You've been enlightening. So plan ahead to make
Angellica Bell: sure you have enough saved in your pension pot to
Angellica Bell: retire comfortably when you're ready to, have a positive mindset.
Angellica Bell: And most of all seize the day now, whatever it
Angellica Bell: is you've got in mind for your career later in
Angellica Bell: life. I've loved hearing how different people have found joy
Angellica Bell: in their unique paths, and you can get more tips
Angellica Bell: and find out more about retirement planning on the website, legalandgeneral.
Angellica Bell: com forward slash retirement. Next time we're hearing from people
Angellica Bell: who've caught the travel bug later in life. What sort
Angellica Bell: of things are different when planning that bucket list trip
Angellica Bell: or adventure? We'll find out in two weeks.
Speaker 6: Do it. You just make up your mind and you
Speaker 6: just go for it and find out what you can and that's
Speaker 6: it. It's easy. It really is.
Angellica Bell: I'm Angellica Bell, follow Rewirement on your favorite platform and
Angellica Bell: I'll catch you next time.