1 00:00:01,260 --> 00:00:03,480 Student 1: I do remember signing up for my first exam and 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,400 Student 1: it was a bit daunting because I didn't know what 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:06,420 Student 1: to expect at all. 4 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:08,700 Student 2: I remember a colleague at the time saying to me, " 5 00:00:08,789 --> 00:00:11,129 Student 2: Just give it a go. You've paid for it now, just go and sit it 6 00:00:12,030 --> 00:00:13,320 Student 2: and use it as a trial run." 7 00:00:13,710 --> 00:00:16,860 Student 3: As soon as I pass the exam, then it motivates 8 00:00:16,860 --> 00:00:18,209 Student 3: me again to continue, keep going. 9 00:00:18,210 --> 00:00:21,810 Student 4: It's a lot of hard work, a lot of resilience, 10 00:00:22,230 --> 00:00:23,970 Student 4: but it's worth it in the end. 11 00:00:25,050 --> 00:00:29,250 Krutika Adatia: Hello, I'm Krutika Adatia and I'm a chartered accountant. I now 12 00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:33,508 Krutika Adatia: support accountancy students through their training, and as an educator, 13 00:00:33,809 --> 00:00:36,720 Krutika Adatia: I'm regularly up close and personal with some of the common 14 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,770 Krutika Adatia: issues people face while studying for and sitting their accountancy exams. 15 00:00:41,519 --> 00:00:46,468 Krutika Adatia: So in this series for the ACCA, I've been chatting to experts about strategies 16 00:00:46,469 --> 00:00:49,649 Krutika Adatia: we can all use when facing some of life's challenges. 17 00:00:50,130 --> 00:00:53,759 Krutika Adatia: And for this final episode of the series, we're doing something special. 18 00:00:54,090 --> 00:00:58,020 Krutika Adatia: We are speaking to an ACCA education expert about how 19 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:01,740 Krutika Adatia: to get on with booking and sitting your exams, as 20 00:01:01,740 --> 00:01:05,520 Krutika Adatia: well as someone who has just successfully passed all their exams. 21 00:01:06,150 --> 00:01:09,090 Krutika Adatia: What do the stats tell us about how to feel prepared? 22 00:01:09,509 --> 00:01:12,900 Krutika Adatia: What resources are available to you through your ACCA journey, 23 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,919 Krutika Adatia: and how do you push yourself to take that first step? This 24 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,139 Krutika Adatia: is On Your Marks, because you'll never know until you try. Now, 25 00:01:22,139 --> 00:01:25,200 Krutika Adatia: as an educator with ACCA, this is a topic close 26 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,709 Krutika Adatia: to my heart. Working in the education solutions team at 27 00:01:28,709 --> 00:01:32,399 Krutika Adatia: ACCA means I have a lot of direct contact with students, 28 00:01:32,610 --> 00:01:36,209 Krutika Adatia: whether through webinars, social events, and the ACCA- X product 29 00:01:36,209 --> 00:01:39,809 Krutika Adatia: which I manage. I'm always moved by stories of perseverance 30 00:01:39,809 --> 00:01:42,300 Krutika Adatia: and success as I know these exams can be a 31 00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:45,330 Krutika Adatia: real challenge. They certainly were for me when I sat 32 00:01:45,330 --> 00:01:49,589 Krutika Adatia: them several years ago. So it's always particularly heartwarming to 33 00:01:49,590 --> 00:01:52,110 Krutika Adatia: me when I find out that a specific resource or 34 00:01:52,110 --> 00:01:55,710 Krutika Adatia: initiative that I've contributed to has helped someone achieve a 35 00:01:55,710 --> 00:01:59,700 Krutika Adatia: passing result. Today I'm going to be unpicking what these 36 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:03,029 Krutika Adatia: resources are with Paul Kirkwood. He's the regional head of 37 00:02:03,030 --> 00:02:06,840 Krutika Adatia: education and learning for ACCA in the UK. Hello, Paul. 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,100 Paul Kirkwood: Hi, Krutika, lovely to be here today. 39 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,730 Krutika Adatia: And Shaun Fenwick. He works in the accounting team at 40 00:02:11,730 --> 00:02:14,940 Krutika Adatia: Brixton Brewery and has just found out he's passed all his 41 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:17,668 Krutika Adatia: exams in the last couple of months. Hello, Shaun. 42 00:02:17,669 --> 00:02:19,080 Shaun Fenwick: Hello. Thank you for having me. 43 00:02:19,258 --> 00:02:21,960 Krutika Adatia: Amazing. So great to have you both here with us. 44 00:02:22,169 --> 00:02:24,388 Krutika Adatia: Now, Shaun, I'm going to kick off with a question 45 00:02:24,570 --> 00:02:26,880 Krutika Adatia: that's about how you are feeling now that you've just 46 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,139 Krutika Adatia: passed your exams? 47 00:02:28,139 --> 00:02:30,990 Shaun Fenwick: I feel brilliant, amazing. A weight has been lifted off 48 00:02:30,990 --> 00:02:33,419 Shaun Fenwick: the shoulder, not really sure what to do next, to 49 00:02:33,419 --> 00:02:35,610 Shaun Fenwick: be honest. Got my result a couple of weeks ago, 50 00:02:35,610 --> 00:02:39,150 Shaun Fenwick: and looking forward to what the next chapter is really. 51 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,249 Krutika Adatia: Amazing. You must feel like you have so much time 52 00:02:41,250 --> 00:02:42,149 Krutika Adatia: on your hands now. 53 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,370 Shaun Fenwick: Well, that's the thing, I do. Previously I've got my 54 00:02:44,370 --> 00:02:47,700 Shaun Fenwick: exam result, I'm like, " Right. Okay, let's book the next exam." Now, 55 00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:51,150 Shaun Fenwick: I'm like, " Okay, what next?" So I'm just looking forward to 56 00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:52,410 Shaun Fenwick: seeing what that will look like. 57 00:02:52,559 --> 00:02:55,049 Krutika Adatia: Brilliant. I'm so excited for you, Shaun, and thank you 58 00:02:55,049 --> 00:02:57,959 Krutika Adatia: for joining us once again. Now, Paul, coming to you, 59 00:02:58,230 --> 00:03:01,320 Krutika Adatia: when it comes to deciding to pursue the ACCA qualification, 60 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,750 Krutika Adatia: we know that in itself is quite a big step 61 00:03:04,139 --> 00:03:07,829 Krutika Adatia: and the flexibility of the qualification means that individuals can 62 00:03:07,830 --> 00:03:10,889 Krutika Adatia: start at different points and not everyone's journey is going 63 00:03:10,889 --> 00:03:12,989 Krutika Adatia: to be the same. Can you tell us a little 64 00:03:12,990 --> 00:03:16,259 Krutika Adatia: bit about the entry routes into the qualification and the 65 00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:18,090 Krutika Adatia: decisions that students might have to make? 66 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:22,350 Paul Kirkwood: Yeah, of course. The flexibility is one of the ACCA's big 67 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,548 Paul Kirkwood: advantages, but it does and can create some problems because 68 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:28,709 Paul Kirkwood: it can lead to a little bit of procrastination 'cause 69 00:03:28,710 --> 00:03:32,129 Paul Kirkwood: you've got to make those choices. There's a few areas 70 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:35,039 Paul Kirkwood: that I could talk about very briefly, first of which 71 00:03:35,039 --> 00:03:37,980 Paul Kirkwood: is the entry point. So students can come in at 72 00:03:37,980 --> 00:03:41,070 Paul Kirkwood: the very start of the qualification, but actually if you've 73 00:03:41,070 --> 00:03:43,650 Paul Kirkwood: done some prior learning, you can get credit for that. 74 00:03:43,650 --> 00:03:46,320 Paul Kirkwood: They're called exemptions. It's not the greatest name, but you 75 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,559 Paul Kirkwood: can get credit for prior learning, and that means you 76 00:03:49,559 --> 00:03:53,789 Paul Kirkwood: can get or bypass some of the earlier exams. So 77 00:03:53,820 --> 00:03:56,850 Paul Kirkwood: we've got potentially different starting points, but also in the 78 00:03:56,850 --> 00:04:00,450 Paul Kirkwood: main qualification there's three levels and each level's got a 79 00:04:00,450 --> 00:04:03,120 Paul Kirkwood: number of exams and you don't have to take them 80 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,969 Paul Kirkwood: in a specific order. So as well as having to 81 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,049 Paul Kirkwood: perhaps have different starting points, you've also got to choose 82 00:04:10,049 --> 00:04:13,560 Paul Kirkwood: your first exam and get going with the qualification. And 83 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,130 Paul Kirkwood: finally, there's many different ways to study as well, whether 84 00:04:17,130 --> 00:04:19,770 Paul Kirkwood: you're going to study yourself or, as we recommend, with 85 00:04:19,770 --> 00:04:22,440 Paul Kirkwood: a learning partner. And then with a learning partner, are 86 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,389 Paul Kirkwood: you going to do home study, are you going to 87 00:04:24,389 --> 00:04:26,639 Paul Kirkwood: do distance learning, are you going to do a face- to- 88 00:04:26,639 --> 00:04:29,430 Paul Kirkwood: face course or an online course? There are a lot 89 00:04:29,430 --> 00:04:31,830 Paul Kirkwood: of choices, but there's a lot of support and resources 90 00:04:31,830 --> 00:04:33,630 Paul Kirkwood: to help you make those decisions. 91 00:04:33,900 --> 00:04:35,609 Krutika Adatia: And I'm sure we'll come onto that. But it's really 92 00:04:35,610 --> 00:04:39,240 Krutika Adatia: interesting that you mentioned procrastination because we've recorded another episode 93 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,330 Krutika Adatia: where we talk specifically about that. And actually, Shaun, I 94 00:04:42,330 --> 00:04:44,489 Krutika Adatia: want to come to you. Do you remember making some 95 00:04:44,490 --> 00:04:47,190 Krutika Adatia: of the decisions that Paul's referring to and what's your 96 00:04:47,190 --> 00:04:47,491 Krutika Adatia: journey been like? 97 00:04:47,491 --> 00:04:52,229 Shaun Fenwick: I do, yes. My journey started off with AAT, which was 98 00:04:52,230 --> 00:04:55,200 Shaun Fenwick: my prior learning to ACCA. And as Paul touched on, 99 00:04:55,380 --> 00:04:58,589 Shaun Fenwick: I then qualified for those exemptions and I was exempted 100 00:04:58,589 --> 00:05:01,409 Shaun Fenwick: from the first three papers, which is that level one 101 00:05:01,410 --> 00:05:05,369 Shaun Fenwick: of the qualification. So I entered ACCA in the level 102 00:05:05,369 --> 00:05:05,998 Shaun Fenwick: two phase. 103 00:05:05,999 --> 00:05:08,190 Krutika Adatia: Great. And just going to touch on a question there 'cause you 104 00:05:08,190 --> 00:05:11,700 Krutika Adatia: mentioned exemptions. Reflecting back on it, were the exemptions something 105 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:15,479 Krutika Adatia: that you feel helped you to get a qualification quicker? 106 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,279 Krutika Adatia: If you had to make that decision again, would you 107 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:18,390 Krutika Adatia: take the exemption? 108 00:05:19,110 --> 00:05:22,680 Shaun Fenwick: Certainly. It certainly helped me get the qualification quicker. The exemptions I 109 00:05:22,830 --> 00:05:26,760 Shaun Fenwick: was entitled to were very similar exams to those which 110 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,729 Shaun Fenwick: I studied in the level four AAT course. So if 111 00:05:29,730 --> 00:05:31,830 Shaun Fenwick: I had have sat those exams, I would've felt like 112 00:05:31,830 --> 00:05:34,710 Shaun Fenwick: I was probably duplicating my learning, hence the reason why 113 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:35,041 Shaun Fenwick: I got those exemptions. 114 00:05:35,041 --> 00:05:40,769 Krutika Adatia: So just coming back to that point. With exemptions, just want to call out that obviously you took 115 00:05:40,770 --> 00:05:44,700 Krutika Adatia: them because you'd already studied the AAT. It's important to 116 00:05:44,700 --> 00:05:46,650 Krutika Adatia: note that obviously if you're going to take exemptions, you 117 00:05:46,650 --> 00:05:48,930 Krutika Adatia: want to make sure you can brush up on the 118 00:05:48,930 --> 00:05:52,620 Krutika Adatia: technical content. Now, Paul, just coming back to you on 119 00:05:52,620 --> 00:05:55,259 Krutika Adatia: a question, we know that students often have fears and 120 00:05:55,259 --> 00:05:58,678 Krutika Adatia: struggles when they're starting off. Can you talk to us 121 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,260 Krutika Adatia: a little bit about what those common fears and struggles 122 00:06:01,260 --> 00:06:01,950 Krutika Adatia: might be? 123 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,560 Paul Kirkwood: Absolutely. I think the first point is it's the fear 124 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,290 Paul Kirkwood: of the unknown. Everyone is going to be a little 125 00:06:07,290 --> 00:06:10,409 Paul Kirkwood: bit nervous when they take that first exam. I think 126 00:06:10,410 --> 00:06:12,659 Paul Kirkwood: for a lot of students as well, who've come through 127 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,469 Paul Kirkwood: a typical education route, they may not have done computer- 128 00:06:16,469 --> 00:06:20,850 Paul Kirkwood: based exams, so fully computer- based exams ever before. And 129 00:06:20,850 --> 00:06:24,420 Paul Kirkwood: so at ACCA, all of the exams are computer- based, 130 00:06:24,750 --> 00:06:27,719 Paul Kirkwood: but there are, for each of the levels, there are 131 00:06:27,719 --> 00:06:32,940 Paul Kirkwood: practice environments for our students to practice in the real environment 132 00:06:32,940 --> 00:06:35,459 Paul Kirkwood: that they will be sitting their exam. So there's support, 133 00:06:35,459 --> 00:06:37,710 Paul Kirkwood: as we said, at each step of the way. So 134 00:06:37,710 --> 00:06:40,170 Paul Kirkwood: we've got maybe fear of that unknown with an exam. 135 00:06:40,529 --> 00:06:43,890 Paul Kirkwood: But also I think fear of failure as well. And 136 00:06:43,890 --> 00:06:47,549 Paul Kirkwood: again, I'm reflecting back on my journey through the qualification 137 00:06:47,550 --> 00:06:51,299 Paul Kirkwood: when I did it, and you do have that absolute 138 00:06:51,299 --> 00:06:55,950 Paul Kirkwood: fear of failure, especially if in your past academic career 139 00:06:56,220 --> 00:06:59,460 Paul Kirkwood: you might not have failed anything ever before. Yet at 140 00:06:59,490 --> 00:07:02,519 Paul Kirkwood: ACCA, there's no grades, there's no A to F, there's 141 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,659 Paul Kirkwood: no score that you get, which means anything other than 142 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:10,080 Paul Kirkwood: pass or fail. So I think that fear of failure is 143 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,780 Paul Kirkwood: something we need to get over and just take that 144 00:07:12,780 --> 00:07:15,840 Paul Kirkwood: first step, but it's something that we will support students on 145 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:16,530 Paul Kirkwood: their journey with. 146 00:07:16,620 --> 00:07:18,600 Krutika Adatia: Amazing. And is that some of the fears that, Shaun, 147 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,610 Krutika Adatia: that you can resonate with? I know certainly the fear 148 00:07:20,610 --> 00:07:23,520 Krutika Adatia: of failure is something that really was a challenge for 149 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,320 Krutika Adatia: me when I was going through this journey. 150 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,500 Shaun Fenwick: Yeah, likewise. My biggest fear, to be honest, was probably 151 00:07:28,590 --> 00:07:32,460 Shaun Fenwick: the commitment to having to study for the next three to 152 00:07:32,580 --> 00:07:35,940 Shaun Fenwick: four plus years and not knowing when I might finish 153 00:07:35,940 --> 00:07:40,320 Shaun Fenwick: my journey, but you can overcome that. It's a full 154 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,740 Shaun Fenwick: qualification. You don't actually need to sit every exam in 155 00:07:43,740 --> 00:07:45,900 Shaun Fenwick: one go. You can take a break, et cetera. So 156 00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:49,560 Shaun Fenwick: that removed that fear, if you like, knowing that. But yeah, the 157 00:07:49,830 --> 00:07:53,160 Shaun Fenwick: fear of failure was of course always a fear, but 158 00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:55,050 Shaun Fenwick: you've just got to book the exam and hope you 159 00:07:55,470 --> 00:07:55,980 Shaun Fenwick: don't fail. 160 00:07:56,220 --> 00:07:58,710 Krutika Adatia: Yeah, it's almost like you don't want to think about 161 00:07:58,710 --> 00:08:00,719 Krutika Adatia: what the result is going to be. Focus on the 162 00:08:00,719 --> 00:08:01,501 Krutika Adatia: goal, you've booked your exam. 163 00:08:01,501 --> 00:08:02,580 Shaun Fenwick: That's it. 164 00:08:02,580 --> 00:08:04,559 Krutika Adatia: Get cracking on with the studies. And actually speaking of 165 00:08:04,559 --> 00:08:08,400 Krutika Adatia: that, Paul, you mentioned support resources that are available to students 166 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:10,170 Krutika Adatia: as they're starting off. Can you tell us a little 167 00:08:10,170 --> 00:08:12,480 Krutika Adatia: bit more about what those resources might be and how they 168 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:12,900 Krutika Adatia: can help? 169 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:18,179 Paul Kirkwood: Yeah. There's a number of resources that ACCA supply, but 170 00:08:18,179 --> 00:08:21,479 Paul Kirkwood: there's also resources from our learning providers. I think one 171 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,549 Paul Kirkwood: of the big things for a new student of the 172 00:08:23,549 --> 00:08:27,420 Paul Kirkwood: qualification is to make themselves aware of all the support 173 00:08:27,510 --> 00:08:31,110 Paul Kirkwood: that's available to them. They'll get support from their learning 174 00:08:31,110 --> 00:08:34,920 Paul Kirkwood: providers. They'll also get support from their employers perhaps as 175 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,070 Paul Kirkwood: well. And then you've got the resources that ACCA give 176 00:08:38,070 --> 00:08:41,098 Paul Kirkwood: you. And at ACCA we try to take you through 177 00:08:41,190 --> 00:08:43,800 Paul Kirkwood: a little bit of planning, so to help you plan 178 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,309 Paul Kirkwood: for your next step because ACCA, as you mentioned, Shaun, 179 00:08:47,490 --> 00:08:50,250 Paul Kirkwood: can take a number of years. It's not just a one- 180 00:08:50,250 --> 00:08:52,650 Paul Kirkwood: year journey. For most it's going to be three, four 181 00:08:52,650 --> 00:08:56,880 Paul Kirkwood: years or sometimes longer, so planning ahead and planning little 182 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,670 Paul Kirkwood: milestones. So we've got help around that planning for our 183 00:08:59,670 --> 00:09:03,570 Paul Kirkwood: students, but there's also support in the learning phase. So 184 00:09:03,570 --> 00:09:06,660 Paul Kirkwood: at ACCA, we've got recently launched the Study Hub, which 185 00:09:06,660 --> 00:09:10,800 Paul Kirkwood: is a fantastic online study text and question bank that 186 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,049 Paul Kirkwood: students are loving at the moment to help them prepare 187 00:09:13,049 --> 00:09:15,900 Paul Kirkwood: for the exam. And then for that revision phase as 188 00:09:15,900 --> 00:09:19,559 Paul Kirkwood: well. I mentioned that we've got support in the real 189 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:22,740 Paul Kirkwood: computer environment that all of our exams are in. So 190 00:09:22,740 --> 00:09:25,500 Paul Kirkwood: again, for planning, for learning for revision, there's support from 191 00:09:25,500 --> 00:09:29,309 Paul Kirkwood: ACCA, which just underpins the support you get from your 192 00:09:29,309 --> 00:09:30,480 Paul Kirkwood: learning providers as well. 193 00:09:30,660 --> 00:09:34,229 Krutika Adatia: That's really great. Now you mentioned the planning element, and 194 00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:37,350 Krutika Adatia: we also did an episode on planning, and I like that you called 195 00:09:37,350 --> 00:09:40,770 Krutika Adatia: out having those smaller goals to work towards. Obviously you've 196 00:09:40,770 --> 00:09:44,280 Krutika Adatia: got the bigger goal, but booking that exam, having a 197 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,800 Krutika Adatia: compass planning tool that will help you break down what 198 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,949 Krutika Adatia: your goals are, sounds great. Now, Shaun, just listening to 199 00:09:49,950 --> 00:09:52,379 Krutika Adatia: some of what Paul has just referenced, were any of 200 00:09:52,379 --> 00:09:55,258 Krutika Adatia: those resources, resources that you made use of what helped 201 00:09:55,260 --> 00:09:56,309 Krutika Adatia: you get started? 202 00:09:56,399 --> 00:09:59,040 Shaun Fenwick: Yeah, they were. Earlier on in my start of my 203 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,458 Shaun Fenwick: journey at ACCA, I was relying heavily on the training 204 00:10:02,460 --> 00:10:06,570 Shaun Fenwick: provider and the materials available through them. But later on 205 00:10:06,570 --> 00:10:10,228 Shaun Fenwick: in my journey, I self- taught and self- studied. I 206 00:10:10,230 --> 00:10:12,630 Shaun Fenwick: relied heavily on the ACCA materials. So I've seen a 207 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:14,670 Shaun Fenwick: bit of both. One of the fears we touched on 208 00:10:14,670 --> 00:10:18,300 Shaun Fenwick: earlier was the fear of sitting a computer- based exam. 209 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,660 Shaun Fenwick: For me, I'd come from A- levels into my accounting 210 00:10:21,780 --> 00:10:24,208 Shaun Fenwick: career, and I was very much used to just pen 211 00:10:24,210 --> 00:10:27,210 Shaun Fenwick: and paper in an exam hall. So the computer exam 212 00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:29,789 Shaun Fenwick: was quite daunting, or the thought of this computer exam was 213 00:10:29,789 --> 00:10:33,090 Shaun Fenwick: quite daunting. But as Paul touched on, there's the ACCA 214 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:37,380 Shaun Fenwick: practice platform, which is like a real- life exam environment. 215 00:10:37,620 --> 00:10:41,849 Shaun Fenwick: And I was on that platform most weeks, just familiarized 216 00:10:41,849 --> 00:10:44,159 Shaun Fenwick: myself with the platform really and that really eased my 217 00:10:44,219 --> 00:10:46,049 Shaun Fenwick: fear of that computer- based exam. 218 00:10:46,169 --> 00:10:49,110 Krutika Adatia: Amazing. Actually, thinking back to when I was a tutor and 219 00:10:49,350 --> 00:10:52,770 Krutika Adatia: the exams changed from paper to computer- based, Paul, wasn't 220 00:10:52,770 --> 00:10:56,790 Krutika Adatia: that quite a scary transition having to actually teach students that, " 221 00:10:56,790 --> 00:10:58,559 Krutika Adatia: Hey, now the exams are on computers." So I don't 222 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,200 Krutika Adatia: think it's just the students, it was the learning providers 223 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,520 Krutika Adatia: having to adapt as well. 224 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:07,410 Paul Kirkwood: Completely agree. And ACCA does pride itself in pushing the boundaries 225 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:10,439 Paul Kirkwood: and making sure that the qualification is up- to- date. 226 00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:12,689 Paul Kirkwood: So I think I'm very proud of that as well. 227 00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:15,150 Paul Kirkwood: But it does mean we've got to be constantly thinking 228 00:11:15,150 --> 00:11:18,360 Paul Kirkwood: about how we support our students and we see the 229 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,360 Paul Kirkwood: results. We can see who uses the practice platform, and 230 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,020 Paul Kirkwood: there's such a strong correlation between students that use the 231 00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:29,338 Paul Kirkwood: resources available and their exam success. So a real tip, 232 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,590 Paul Kirkwood: we've mentioned it twice now is, or I've mentioned it 233 00:11:31,590 --> 00:11:34,440 Paul Kirkwood: twice, is making sure that you are aware of what's 234 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,560 Paul Kirkwood: available. At that start of the journey, you've got some time, 235 00:11:37,740 --> 00:11:41,069 Paul Kirkwood: so spend some time looking at what's available to support 236 00:11:41,070 --> 00:11:43,859 Paul Kirkwood: you for the exam that you choose to do first. 237 00:11:43,859 --> 00:11:45,419 Paul Kirkwood: And you said it, just take that first step. 238 00:11:47,250 --> 00:11:49,949 Krutika Adatia: Now just circling back to something that you mentioned earlier 239 00:11:49,950 --> 00:11:52,770 Krutika Adatia: about the fear of failure and when you make a 240 00:11:52,770 --> 00:11:56,700 Krutika Adatia: plan to become a chartered accountant qualified accountant, it might 241 00:11:56,700 --> 00:12:00,210 Krutika Adatia: be that your plan doesn't always go as you had hoped. 242 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,689 Krutika Adatia: You might have setbacks along the way. So, Paul, what 243 00:12:03,690 --> 00:12:08,760 Krutika Adatia: would your advice be around plans not going as they might do? 244 00:12:09,179 --> 00:12:11,249 Paul Kirkwood: When we say not going as well as they might 245 00:12:11,250 --> 00:12:14,520 Paul Kirkwood: do, life gets in the way. It really does. Whether 246 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,819 Paul Kirkwood: that's work or whether it is your home life. And 247 00:12:17,819 --> 00:12:21,900 Paul Kirkwood: that's not just about not taking exams. Sometimes, Shaun mentioned 248 00:12:21,900 --> 00:12:24,210 Paul Kirkwood: the need, just to take some time out and maybe 249 00:12:24,210 --> 00:12:27,389 Paul Kirkwood: miss an exam sit in just so you can get 250 00:12:27,389 --> 00:12:31,019 Paul Kirkwood: back on track and give your full time and devotion 251 00:12:31,020 --> 00:12:33,719 Paul Kirkwood: that that exam needs to pass. But if you do 252 00:12:33,719 --> 00:12:36,269 Paul Kirkwood: fail, and I'll put my hands up, I failed two 253 00:12:36,270 --> 00:12:39,990 Paul Kirkwood: exams on my route to qualification and I learned from 254 00:12:39,990 --> 00:12:43,380 Paul Kirkwood: both of them. They were painful. There's nothing wrong when 255 00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:46,078 Paul Kirkwood: you don't get that first success to not feel. You 256 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,958 Paul Kirkwood: feel hurt, you feel a little bit of anger, or 257 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,960 Paul Kirkwood: I felt anger. Certainly wasn't my fault for the first 258 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,780 Paul Kirkwood: couple of days. But then you reflect. And there are 259 00:12:54,780 --> 00:12:57,870 Paul Kirkwood: resources, you will get support, and it's by speaking to 260 00:12:57,870 --> 00:13:00,990 Paul Kirkwood: people around you, whether that's your learning provider as we've 261 00:13:01,140 --> 00:13:04,020 Paul Kirkwood: talked about, they will support you to help you get 262 00:13:04,020 --> 00:13:08,880 Paul Kirkwood: back on track. ACCA does as well. It will send 263 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,090 Paul Kirkwood: out support whether it comes in the form of webinars 264 00:13:12,090 --> 00:13:15,750 Paul Kirkwood: or podcasts or vodcasts, it has got help and advice 265 00:13:15,750 --> 00:13:19,140 Paul Kirkwood: for people to really think, reflect, and make the changes 266 00:13:19,140 --> 00:13:22,950 Paul Kirkwood: needed just to make the difference when you come to 267 00:13:22,950 --> 00:13:26,160 Paul Kirkwood: sit that exam the next time. So yes, it is 268 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,679 Paul Kirkwood: a fail. The way the exams are structured, you get 269 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,410 Paul Kirkwood: a pass mark or you get a fail mark. But 270 00:13:31,410 --> 00:13:34,740 Paul Kirkwood: really, and anyone who does get that fail mark, there's 271 00:13:34,740 --> 00:13:36,690 Paul Kirkwood: so much learning to be made from it and it 272 00:13:36,690 --> 00:13:39,420 Paul Kirkwood: will stand you in good stead for future exams. 273 00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:41,610 Krutika Adatia: Well firstly, thank you, Paul, for sharing that you didn't 274 00:13:41,610 --> 00:13:43,349 Krutika Adatia: pass two of your exams. And I'm sure a lot 275 00:13:43,349 --> 00:13:46,949 Krutika Adatia: of listeners listening to this will feel refreshed by hearing 276 00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:48,900 Krutika Adatia: that. And Shaun, I want to ask you, have you had 277 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:50,190 Krutika Adatia: any failures along the way? 278 00:13:50,190 --> 00:13:53,610 Shaun Fenwick: Yeah, exactly the same. I failed two exams myself and 279 00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:55,980 Shaun Fenwick: one of the hardest parts of the qualification I felt 280 00:13:55,980 --> 00:13:58,170 Shaun Fenwick: was bouncing back and just getting back to study mode. 281 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,078 Shaun Fenwick: It is disappointing. You put in all that effort, all 282 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,559 Shaun Fenwick: that time studying and revising, but there's so many variables 283 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,500 Shaun Fenwick: that come into play when you are going into an exam hall. 284 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:10,710 Shaun Fenwick: You've just got to overcome those and as Paul said, 285 00:14:10,770 --> 00:14:14,400 Shaun Fenwick: just learn from them, resit it, and carry on. That's 286 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,100 Shaun Fenwick: one of the beauties of the qualification, I feel, is that 287 00:14:17,309 --> 00:14:20,700 Shaun Fenwick: there's so much flexibility. And yes, you might fail, but 288 00:14:20,730 --> 00:14:23,219 Shaun Fenwick: you can resit that exam, you can resit it in 289 00:14:23,219 --> 00:14:25,380 Shaun Fenwick: the next sitting, you can actually start a new exam 290 00:14:25,380 --> 00:14:28,170 Shaun Fenwick: and then come back to that exam. One of my 291 00:14:28,170 --> 00:14:31,470 Shaun Fenwick: top tip would just be to try and overcome that 292 00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:33,000 Shaun Fenwick: and just resit it and go again. 293 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:36,059 Krutika Adatia: What kept you motivated? You mentioned you failed two exams 294 00:14:36,059 --> 00:14:38,310 Krutika Adatia: as well, so what was it that kept you going? 295 00:14:38,310 --> 00:14:41,190 Shaun Fenwick: Well, it was difficult to get going straight away, but 296 00:14:41,700 --> 00:14:45,270 Shaun Fenwick: I did. And I think having those smaller milestones and being like, " 297 00:14:45,270 --> 00:14:48,960 Shaun Fenwick: Right, okay, that's my next target," and that kept me 298 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,360 Shaun Fenwick: going. And my targets were broken down. So yes, the 299 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,139 Shaun Fenwick: overall goal was to finish the entire qualification, but one 300 00:14:55,139 --> 00:14:57,450 Shaun Fenwick: of my goals would be to finish the first four 301 00:14:57,450 --> 00:15:01,138 Shaun Fenwick: exams, for example. So if that's the third exam that 302 00:15:01,139 --> 00:15:04,560 Shaun Fenwick: I failed, that's fine. My goal wasn't to sit with third exam, it 303 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:05,940 Shaun Fenwick: was to sit the fourth exam. So let me just 304 00:15:06,420 --> 00:15:10,080 Shaun Fenwick: get the next one done. I suggest having those milestones. 305 00:15:10,349 --> 00:15:13,410 Krutika Adatia: And that's great that you've mentioned those milestones. And just 306 00:15:13,410 --> 00:15:15,900 Krutika Adatia: something we spoke about in an earlier episode as well 307 00:15:15,900 --> 00:15:19,979 Krutika Adatia: was just that reframing that you have. So to keep 308 00:15:19,980 --> 00:15:23,250 Krutika Adatia: going and just thinking, " I just haven't passed yet, but 309 00:15:23,250 --> 00:15:27,719 Krutika Adatia: that will come eventually." And here you are, have passed 310 00:15:27,719 --> 00:15:31,920 Krutika Adatia: all your exams. Fantastic. Well thank you both for 311 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,619 Krutika Adatia: this conversation. And before we wrap up, just want to 312 00:15:34,619 --> 00:15:38,460 Krutika Adatia: come on to summarizing three things, Paul, that you would 313 00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:41,430 Krutika Adatia: advise students to focus on when they're starting out. 314 00:15:41,610 --> 00:15:44,910 Paul Kirkwood: Okay. The first one you mentioned, setting those small milestones. 315 00:15:45,150 --> 00:15:48,090 Paul Kirkwood: I'm going to build on that concept and make sure 316 00:15:48,090 --> 00:15:51,869 Paul Kirkwood: you celebrate that success, whatever that success looks like for 317 00:15:51,870 --> 00:15:53,969 Paul Kirkwood: you. And it can come in many different forms, but 318 00:15:53,969 --> 00:15:56,700 Paul Kirkwood: make sure you do celebrate it because it can be 319 00:15:56,700 --> 00:16:00,450 Paul Kirkwood: a long journey, but it does aid that extra motivation 320 00:16:00,540 --> 00:16:02,099 Paul Kirkwood: and it's a really good way to bounce back, like 321 00:16:02,099 --> 00:16:05,400 Paul Kirkwood: that bounce back concept, to bounce back from failure with 322 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,910 Paul Kirkwood: that target of getting through. So set those milestones and 323 00:16:08,910 --> 00:16:12,749 Paul Kirkwood: celebrate success. I'd also say that the next one is 324 00:16:12,750 --> 00:16:15,630 Paul Kirkwood: spend that little bit of time working out the resources 325 00:16:15,630 --> 00:16:18,330 Paul Kirkwood: that are available to you. So dealing with that, perhaps, 326 00:16:18,330 --> 00:16:21,809 Paul Kirkwood: nervousness about, " Have I got enough support to get me 327 00:16:21,809 --> 00:16:24,629 Paul Kirkwood: through?" Yes, there is, but you've got to find it. 328 00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:26,429 Paul Kirkwood: You've got to look for it a little bit. And 329 00:16:26,429 --> 00:16:29,520 Paul Kirkwood: then thirdly, and this is the final thing and the 330 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,730 Paul Kirkwood: biggest thing for me is book an exam. If you 331 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:35,550 Paul Kirkwood: can book that exam, it sets a line in the 332 00:16:35,550 --> 00:16:38,670 Paul Kirkwood: sand, you've got something to aim for, you are committed, 333 00:16:38,849 --> 00:16:39,600 Paul Kirkwood: just go for it. 334 00:16:39,870 --> 00:16:42,719 Krutika Adatia: Love it. And a similar thing with a three areas 335 00:16:42,719 --> 00:16:45,030 Krutika Adatia: of focus for students when they're starting out, Shaun? 336 00:16:45,089 --> 00:16:47,370 Shaun Fenwick: Number one would be to book the exam for me. 337 00:16:47,699 --> 00:16:50,490 Shaun Fenwick: Book the exam and work backwards and then build your 338 00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:52,860 Shaun Fenwick: revision plan around that. That's what I felt. It was 339 00:16:52,860 --> 00:16:55,920 Shaun Fenwick: very easy to not have an exam booked and study, 340 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:58,349 Shaun Fenwick: study, study. And you've just always got that feeling in 341 00:16:58,349 --> 00:17:00,179 Shaun Fenwick: your mind that, " Oh, I might not be ready to 342 00:17:00,179 --> 00:17:02,249 Shaun Fenwick: sit this exam." Just book it. That would be my 343 00:17:02,250 --> 00:17:06,630 Shaun Fenwick: number one focus. Second focus would probably be to start 344 00:17:06,630 --> 00:17:10,590 Shaun Fenwick: building a network, a network of colleagues and peers and 345 00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:13,800 Shaun Fenwick: other students, tutors, et cetera, because it would be the people 346 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,279 Shaun Fenwick: around you that really get you through the qualification. It'll 347 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,138 Shaun Fenwick: be those people which are able to help you when 348 00:17:19,138 --> 00:17:21,690 Shaun Fenwick: you do fail, et cetera. So that would be number 349 00:17:21,690 --> 00:17:25,260 Shaun Fenwick: two. And then number three would probably be, just enjoy 350 00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:29,158 Shaun Fenwick: the journey and commit some time to studying, but also 351 00:17:29,369 --> 00:17:32,010 Shaun Fenwick: make some free time available to have fun with your 352 00:17:32,010 --> 00:17:37,049 Shaun Fenwick: friends, go on holidays, et cetera. Just don't work too 353 00:17:37,049 --> 00:17:38,969 Shaun Fenwick: hard towards just studying. And then make sure you give some 354 00:17:38,969 --> 00:17:40,109 Shaun Fenwick: time for yourself. 355 00:17:40,109 --> 00:17:42,180 Krutika Adatia: Sorry, I got excited. I was going to interrupt there because 356 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,150 Krutika Adatia: you said enjoy the journey, Paul. And I think that's 357 00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:48,810 Krutika Adatia: really important, isn't it? We are so fixated on the 358 00:17:48,810 --> 00:17:51,898 Krutika Adatia: end result, that we want to qualify, that we forget 359 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,790 Krutika Adatia: that actually it's a journey and that we ought to 360 00:17:53,790 --> 00:17:56,000 Krutika Adatia: enjoy it in the process. So thank you for 361 00:17:56,009 --> 00:17:56,580 Krutika Adatia: sharing that. 362 00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:59,789 Shaun Fenwick: It is very easy to get bogged down in study 363 00:17:59,789 --> 00:18:03,178 Shaun Fenwick: textbooks and have a plan, which is just, " Right, Saturday 364 00:18:03,180 --> 00:18:04,350 Shaun Fenwick: and Sunday I need to go to the library and 365 00:18:04,350 --> 00:18:07,168 Shaun Fenwick: I need to revise. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, in the evenings, 366 00:18:07,170 --> 00:18:08,879 Shaun Fenwick: I'm going to pick up that study book." It's very 367 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,329 Shaun Fenwick: easy to just get bogged down with studying and sitting 368 00:18:12,330 --> 00:18:16,379 Shaun Fenwick: exams, especially when the windows are every quarter. You are 369 00:18:16,379 --> 00:18:19,980 Shaun Fenwick: always working in a three- month timetable. For me, my 370 00:18:19,980 --> 00:18:22,500 Shaun Fenwick: journey wasn't as simple as just sitting exam every quarter. 371 00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:25,619 Shaun Fenwick: I took some time for myself. There was actually a 12- 372 00:18:25,619 --> 00:18:28,800 Shaun Fenwick: month period where I only sat two exams, but that 373 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,740 Shaun Fenwick: was really helpful for me and really beneficial for my 374 00:18:31,740 --> 00:18:33,869 Shaun Fenwick: journey. There was lots going on. I was starting a 375 00:18:33,869 --> 00:18:36,840 Shaun Fenwick: new job and I was moving homes, et cetera. So 376 00:18:36,990 --> 00:18:40,800 Shaun Fenwick: it is important to realize that you've got a lot of 377 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:41,970 Shaun Fenwick: time, you've got all the time in the world, and 378 00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:43,260 Shaun Fenwick: there's no rush. 379 00:18:43,530 --> 00:18:46,470 Paul Kirkwood: I could echo that point. I think it's so important 380 00:18:46,740 --> 00:18:48,990 Paul Kirkwood: when you're doing your detailed plan, and you mentioned that, 381 00:18:49,020 --> 00:18:51,059 Paul Kirkwood: Shaun, in terms of start with your exam and work 382 00:18:51,059 --> 00:18:54,750 Paul Kirkwood: backwards. Get the time in that you will be spending 383 00:18:54,990 --> 00:18:58,260 Paul Kirkwood: with your family, with your friends. Block that time out. 384 00:18:58,260 --> 00:19:00,720 Paul Kirkwood: You can't block too much out. We know that. But 385 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,750 Paul Kirkwood: that's so important because these other people who are around 386 00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:06,150 Paul Kirkwood: you, and you mentioned it earlier, who will support you. 387 00:19:06,660 --> 00:19:10,529 Paul Kirkwood: So make sure you do give time for yourself and 388 00:19:10,529 --> 00:19:13,560 Paul Kirkwood: your friends and your family along the way. I hesitate 389 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:17,190 Paul Kirkwood: to say that I enjoyed my journey to qualification, but 390 00:19:17,190 --> 00:19:20,220 Paul Kirkwood: there's no better day than the day that I got 391 00:19:20,220 --> 00:19:23,460 Paul Kirkwood: that final result and I can remember it. To this day, 392 00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:27,119 Paul Kirkwood: I can remember getting that final result, " You've passed. You're 393 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:31,470 Paul Kirkwood: there. You've done it." And it was all worthwhile, undoubtedly. 394 00:19:31,619 --> 00:19:35,760 Krutika Adatia: Definitely no comparable feeling to that. That's it from this 395 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,000 Krutika Adatia: series of On Your Marks. Thank you, Paul and Shaun, for 396 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,138 Krutika Adatia: chatting with me today. For more information about ACCA exams, 397 00:19:43,259 --> 00:19:50,250 Krutika Adatia: you can go to www. accaglobal. com/ exam. I'm Krutika Adatia, 398 00:19:50,490 --> 00:19:52,440 Krutika Adatia: and this has been On Your Marks.