1 00:00:01,139 --> 00:00:04,290 Maiki Lynch: Hey, there. I'm Maiki Lynch and I'm an accountant. And 2 00:00:04,290 --> 00:00:07,140 Maiki Lynch: in this series from ACCA, I've been sitting down with 3 00:00:07,140 --> 00:00:09,898 Maiki Lynch: other accountants and people who work in finance to hear 4 00:00:09,900 --> 00:00:12,630 Maiki Lynch: about their journeys in the world of work, and bust 5 00:00:12,630 --> 00:00:17,129 Maiki Lynch: some common myths about these careers along the way. This 6 00:00:17,129 --> 00:00:19,920 Maiki Lynch: week is our final episode, and it's a rather special 7 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:22,169 Maiki Lynch: one because we are going to be squaring up one 8 00:00:22,170 --> 00:00:24,810 Maiki Lynch: of the biggest questions facing not just those working in 9 00:00:24,810 --> 00:00:28,139 Maiki Lynch: accounting and finance, but has the potential to change almost 10 00:00:28,139 --> 00:00:32,550 Maiki Lynch: every area of our lives. That's right, it's artificial intelligence. 11 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,390 Maiki Lynch: These days it seems like AI is always in the news, 12 00:00:36,570 --> 00:00:41,070 Maiki Lynch: whether it's ChatGPT helping students write essays, or big manufacturing 13 00:00:41,070 --> 00:00:45,930 Maiki Lynch: companies changing their processes. But is AI going to have a big role to play in 14 00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:48,960 Maiki Lynch: the future of finance? Is it going to help or 15 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,598 Maiki Lynch: be a hindrance? And what could it mean for careers 16 00:00:51,598 --> 00:00:56,730 Maiki Lynch: in accountancy? Let's find out. This is By All Accounts. 17 00:01:00,990 --> 00:01:04,048 Maiki Lynch: Depending on how it's discussed, the changes AI may bring 18 00:01:04,050 --> 00:01:06,929 Maiki Lynch: to our lives can feel either like a golden opportunity 19 00:01:07,230 --> 00:01:10,289 Maiki Lynch: or a looming threat. So when it came to careers 20 00:01:10,289 --> 00:01:14,010 Maiki Lynch: in accounting and finance, I've gone to the experts. First 21 00:01:14,010 --> 00:01:18,270 Maiki Lynch: up I have ACCA's own Head of Technology Research, Alistair Brisbourne, 22 00:01:18,690 --> 00:01:21,630 Maiki Lynch: who's been digging into what AI means for the future 23 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:23,520 Maiki Lynch: of accountancy. Hello, Alistair. 24 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:24,480 Alistair Brisbourne: Hello, Maiki. 25 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:28,799 Maiki Lynch: And also Imtiaz Ahmad. Imtiaz qualified as an accountant back 26 00:01:28,799 --> 00:01:31,800 Maiki Lynch: in 2007 and has worked in both the private and 27 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,069 Maiki Lynch: public sectors, all the way from junior roles to top 28 00:01:35,069 --> 00:01:38,130 Maiki Lynch: executive levels. He's here to share his views on how 29 00:01:38,130 --> 00:01:40,980 Maiki Lynch: the industry has changed over the years and is continuing 30 00:01:40,980 --> 00:01:42,660 Maiki Lynch: to change. Hello, Imtiaz. 31 00:01:42,990 --> 00:01:43,350 Imtiaz Ahmad: Hi. 32 00:01:43,709 --> 00:01:47,400 Maiki Lynch: Welcome. So Alistair, I'm going to come to you first. 33 00:01:47,549 --> 00:01:50,400 Maiki Lynch: I know AI is everywhere these days, but it can 34 00:01:50,490 --> 00:01:53,070 Maiki Lynch: feel a little bit of a black box to some. 35 00:01:53,730 --> 00:01:57,240 Maiki Lynch: Can you give me a really straightforward explanation as to 36 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:57,840 Maiki Lynch: what AI is? 37 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:03,089 Alistair Brisbourne: Well, that's a challenge. Basically, AI is about using a 38 00:02:03,089 --> 00:02:06,780 Alistair Brisbourne: computer, the strengths of computers, to do things that used 39 00:02:06,780 --> 00:02:10,800 Alistair Brisbourne: to be done by human intelligence. I think something that 40 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:12,960 Alistair Brisbourne: we're also aware of that's accessible to all of us 41 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,899 Alistair Brisbourne: is thinking about smart playlists. Whether you're using Spotify or 42 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:20,820 Alistair Brisbourne: Apple Music, these playlists, they know what music you like 43 00:02:21,330 --> 00:02:24,149 Alistair Brisbourne: and they know why you like it because they're assessing 44 00:02:24,150 --> 00:02:27,030 Alistair Brisbourne: the music that you're listening to, they're assessing the music 45 00:02:27,030 --> 00:02:30,060 Alistair Brisbourne: that other people listen to, in order to make suggestions 46 00:02:30,060 --> 00:02:32,190 Alistair Brisbourne: as to other songs that you might like. So what 47 00:02:32,190 --> 00:02:35,728 Alistair Brisbourne: it's doing is there's this algorithm that's learning from data, in 48 00:02:35,849 --> 00:02:39,359 Alistair Brisbourne: this case your music choices, and then it's making suggestions 49 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,299 Alistair Brisbourne: as to other songs you might like. And that applies 50 00:02:42,299 --> 00:02:44,880 Alistair Brisbourne: to basically all forms of artificial intelligence. It's as simple 51 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:50,340 Alistair Brisbourne: as a machine understanding patterns within data. And so as 52 00:02:50,340 --> 00:02:53,130 Alistair Brisbourne: you say, it's pervasive in our lives, whether it's the 53 00:02:53,130 --> 00:02:55,950 Alistair Brisbourne: mapping systems we use to get here today to understand 54 00:02:55,950 --> 00:03:00,209 Alistair Brisbourne: traffic flow information, to understand route guidance, all this is 55 00:03:00,210 --> 00:03:04,380 Alistair Brisbourne: infused with AI. Or the quirky questions we ask our 56 00:03:04,380 --> 00:03:09,480 Alistair Brisbourne: Siri and Alexa and Google assistants, that's all AI- based. 57 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,870 Alistair Brisbourne: Or we had the Beatles release a song last year, 58 00:03:12,870 --> 00:03:16,199 Alistair Brisbourne: for example, thanks to a machine learning tool that was 59 00:03:16,199 --> 00:03:19,440 Alistair Brisbourne: able to extract data from an old hissy tape and 60 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,250 Alistair Brisbourne: turn it into a new track. And so AI is 61 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:27,630 Alistair Brisbourne: basically using the strengths of AI to recognize patterns within 62 00:03:27,630 --> 00:03:30,240 Alistair Brisbourne: large data sets and extract that in a useful way 63 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:30,809 Alistair Brisbourne: for us. 64 00:03:31,799 --> 00:03:33,990 Maiki Lynch: What's this got to do with accounting and finance and 65 00:03:34,169 --> 00:03:34,591 Maiki Lynch: the roles that we have? 66 00:03:34,591 --> 00:03:37,980 Alistair Brisbourne: Well, I mean, the core of our job is to look at 67 00:03:38,310 --> 00:03:40,950 Alistair Brisbourne: huge amounts of financial data, as well as other forms 68 00:03:40,950 --> 00:03:43,470 Alistair Brisbourne: of data these days. We're looking at more unstructured data 69 00:03:43,470 --> 00:03:47,819 Alistair Brisbourne: sets like text these days and imagery and things like 70 00:03:47,820 --> 00:03:51,660 Alistair Brisbourne: that. And so being able to extract insight from that 71 00:03:51,660 --> 00:03:55,140 Alistair Brisbourne: data is absolutely fundamental in the accountancy role, and it 72 00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:58,260 Alistair Brisbourne: will be even more so moving forward. If you think 73 00:03:58,260 --> 00:04:01,380 Alistair Brisbourne: about some of these routine tasks that accountants are involved 74 00:04:01,380 --> 00:04:06,480 Alistair Brisbourne: in, the data entry tasks, reconciling debits and credits, and some 75 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,910 Alistair Brisbourne: of these basic things that everyone has to learn along 76 00:04:08,910 --> 00:04:12,900 Alistair Brisbourne: the way, AI is really useful in not just saving 77 00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:16,799 Alistair Brisbourne: time, but also reducing errors and increasing accuracy in those 78 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,970 Alistair Brisbourne: processes, so it's fantastic. And then we can apply it 79 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:25,349 Alistair Brisbourne: to things like fraud, so identifying anomalies within data sets, 80 00:04:25,650 --> 00:04:29,609 Alistair Brisbourne: improving our risk management processes. We can use it to 81 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,360 Alistair Brisbourne: help interpret tax law, to help fill out forms. So 82 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,520 Alistair Brisbourne: there are a myriad ways in which AI can help 83 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,669 Alistair Brisbourne: the accountancy profession, I think we're just scratching the surface 84 00:04:38,670 --> 00:04:39,240 Alistair Brisbourne: at the moment. 85 00:04:40,050 --> 00:04:41,758 Maiki Lynch: I love what you've talked about there because it sounds 86 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:45,210 Maiki Lynch: like we're going beyond just efficiencies that can be made, 87 00:04:45,210 --> 00:04:47,639 Maiki Lynch: perhaps some more the entry level roles there. 88 00:04:48,089 --> 00:04:51,839 Alistair Brisbourne: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Efficiency is the immediate go- to we 89 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,960 Alistair Brisbourne: think about when we think about AI and automation, but 90 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,190 Alistair Brisbourne: really it's about enabling better strategic advice. It's about moving 91 00:04:59,428 --> 00:05:04,529 Alistair Brisbourne: beyond just the transactional aspects of the role and actually 92 00:05:04,740 --> 00:05:09,750 Alistair Brisbourne: providing that business acumen, that strategic acumen, that accountants actually 93 00:05:09,750 --> 00:05:12,450 Alistair Brisbourne: do have. They have a solid understanding of their organization 94 00:05:12,690 --> 00:05:14,430 Alistair Brisbourne: because of the information that they're working with. 95 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:17,459 Maiki Lynch: Imtiaz, I'd like to come to you if I may. 96 00:05:17,969 --> 00:05:21,630 Maiki Lynch: You've been in senior accounting roles for some time. What 97 00:05:21,630 --> 00:05:23,789 Maiki Lynch: conversations have you been hearing about AI? 98 00:05:24,809 --> 00:05:28,890 Imtiaz Ahmad: Well, it depends on the context. Usually AI is taken 99 00:05:28,890 --> 00:05:32,190 Imtiaz Ahmad: as a threat. Every time, if you see the last 100 00:05:32,220 --> 00:05:36,089 Imtiaz Ahmad: 50 to 70 years of human history where we have evolved so 101 00:05:36,089 --> 00:05:40,109 Imtiaz Ahmad: much technological development and everything around it, whenever there is 102 00:05:40,109 --> 00:05:42,720 Imtiaz Ahmad: a new technological development, new advancement, there is a new 103 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,839 Imtiaz Ahmad: milestone, it's always taken as a threat first. And then 104 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:47,790 Imtiaz Ahmad: later on people realized, " Oh, no, no, no, no. It was 105 00:05:47,790 --> 00:05:50,759 Imtiaz Ahmad: a mistake. It's better for us to enable us to 106 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:53,849 Imtiaz Ahmad: help us to facilitate the processes." So the same thing 107 00:05:53,849 --> 00:05:58,498 Imtiaz Ahmad: is with AI. You see now we are, as Alistair 108 00:05:58,500 --> 00:06:01,320 Imtiaz Ahmad: has said, that we are more of at the initial stage 109 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,310 Imtiaz Ahmad: of scratching the surface. There are so much more we 110 00:06:05,310 --> 00:06:08,190 Imtiaz Ahmad: are going to do, not only in accountancy, but in 111 00:06:08,190 --> 00:06:12,629 Imtiaz Ahmad: every other aspect of life. The reconciliations between one account 112 00:06:12,630 --> 00:06:15,630 Imtiaz Ahmad: to another account, between one organization to another organization, is 113 00:06:15,630 --> 00:06:18,599 Imtiaz Ahmad: going to be automated. We are going to be working 114 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:22,890 Imtiaz Ahmad: more on analytical side than the data processing itself. 115 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,150 Maiki Lynch: And within your own work, has it changed your own work, has it? 116 00:06:27,151 --> 00:06:31,259 Imtiaz Ahmad: Oh, so much, so much, so much so. I remember when 117 00:06:31,259 --> 00:06:35,609 Imtiaz Ahmad: I started working right after my qualification in 2007, I 118 00:06:35,609 --> 00:06:40,380 Imtiaz Ahmad: was working in public sector in one of the organizations in Pakistan. And I 119 00:06:40,380 --> 00:06:42,748 Imtiaz Ahmad: mean, you will be surprised, it was not that old 120 00:06:43,020 --> 00:06:45,990 Imtiaz Ahmad: time, but still people were using the ledgers, the hardcore 121 00:06:45,990 --> 00:06:50,279 Imtiaz Ahmad: printed ledgers, and we were doing actual reconciliation between bank 122 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,799 Imtiaz Ahmad: and the ledger by hand on the ledger, on the- 123 00:06:52,799 --> 00:06:55,859 Maiki Lynch: I'm not surprised. When I learned bookkeeping, I would go out 124 00:06:55,860 --> 00:06:59,190 Maiki Lynch: and bookkeeping was in books, if you could imagine - books! 125 00:06:59,490 --> 00:06:59,940 Imtiaz Ahmad: Exactly. 126 00:07:00,270 --> 00:07:03,059 Maiki Lynch: Yes. And that T- account that you learn about in 127 00:07:03,059 --> 00:07:06,118 Maiki Lynch: college, that is the spine of the book. That's where 128 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:06,960 Maiki Lynch: the T- account comes from. 129 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:12,510 Imtiaz Ahmad: True, true. I mean, it's like 14, 15 years ago only, 130 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,179 Imtiaz Ahmad: and now, a few years back, I was working with 131 00:07:15,180 --> 00:07:17,970 Imtiaz Ahmad: one of the Big Four consulting firms, and one of 132 00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:20,700 Imtiaz Ahmad: the assignments we were working ... One of the Sovereign Wealth 133 00:07:20,700 --> 00:07:24,660 Imtiaz Ahmad: Fund for preparing their financial policies and procedures, and took 134 00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:28,950 Imtiaz Ahmad: us at least two to three months to first prepare 135 00:07:29,010 --> 00:07:33,720 Imtiaz Ahmad: the data process flow diagrams, and then explain them into 136 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,900 Imtiaz Ahmad: the policies and procedures. And that was so much manual 137 00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:40,229 Imtiaz Ahmad: work. We were writing from our own heads, " Okay, the data is 138 00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:43,560 Imtiaz Ahmad: moving here," and there is approval and everything. Now you'll 139 00:07:43,679 --> 00:07:46,289 Imtiaz Ahmad: surprised to know that you can take the picture of 140 00:07:46,289 --> 00:07:49,500 Imtiaz Ahmad: the data flow diagram and give it to ChatGPT or 141 00:07:49,500 --> 00:07:52,590 Imtiaz Ahmad: any other relevant AI, and then it will write you 142 00:07:52,740 --> 00:07:54,870 Imtiaz Ahmad: just like that, give it in two minutes. 143 00:07:55,350 --> 00:07:56,940 Maiki Lynch: Wow. Such a time saving. 144 00:07:57,030 --> 00:07:59,339 Imtiaz Ahmad: Of course. And then what we are going to do 145 00:07:59,340 --> 00:08:02,190 Imtiaz Ahmad: with that, we are going to purify that, we are 146 00:08:02,190 --> 00:08:06,029 Imtiaz Ahmad: going to add value to that. It doesn't mean that we are going 147 00:08:06,029 --> 00:08:08,280 Imtiaz Ahmad: to be out of job because AI has replaced that 148 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,520 Imtiaz Ahmad: processing of the data, that writing down the policies and procedures 149 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,490 Imtiaz Ahmad: manually. No, we are going to work on much higher 150 00:08:14,490 --> 00:08:17,460 Imtiaz Ahmad: level quality. So output is going to be a niche 151 00:08:17,460 --> 00:08:19,770 Imtiaz Ahmad: level of the quality actually in the coming time. 152 00:08:20,099 --> 00:08:21,541 Maiki Lynch: So we're freeing up our time- 153 00:08:21,541 --> 00:08:21,542 Imtiaz Ahmad: Of course. 154 00:08:21,542 --> 00:08:24,900 Maiki Lynch: ... to add value to the business, rather than having to 155 00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:27,179 Maiki Lynch: be involved in such labor- intensive tasks. 156 00:08:27,180 --> 00:08:28,470 Imtiaz Ahmad: Exactly, exactly. 157 00:08:28,590 --> 00:08:30,750 Maiki Lynch: I love that. Alistair, I want to come back to 158 00:08:30,750 --> 00:08:33,900 Maiki Lynch: you. You've done some research on how potential students feel 159 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:36,150 Maiki Lynch: about AI. Just wondering what have you found? 160 00:08:37,950 --> 00:08:40,348 Alistair Brisbourne: It's interesting, and it's interesting, I'm listening to what Imtiaz was saying as 161 00:08:40,349 --> 00:08:44,280 Alistair Brisbourne: well because there are obviously a few different challenges here. To answer 162 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:48,088 Alistair Brisbourne: the question directly, Generation Z does seem to be slightly 163 00:08:48,090 --> 00:08:51,599 Alistair Brisbourne: more concerned about the impact of AI than other generations. We 164 00:08:51,599 --> 00:08:53,790 Alistair Brisbourne: look at our talent trends work, in the last two 165 00:08:53,790 --> 00:08:57,600 Alistair Brisbourne: years it's that generation that expresses the most concern about 166 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,700 Alistair Brisbourne: technological development in general, but AI specifically. And that's slightly counterintuitive- 167 00:09:02,970 --> 00:09:02,971 Maiki Lynch: I agree. 168 00:09:02,971 --> 00:09:06,150 Alistair Brisbourne: ... because we tend to think they're coming in with a 169 00:09:06,150 --> 00:09:10,410 Alistair Brisbourne: skillset or an awareness of these technologies that maybe older 170 00:09:10,410 --> 00:09:13,530 Alistair Brisbourne: generations don't have, so we are surprised to see that. 171 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,129 Alistair Brisbourne: And when we dig into it and ask the questions and 172 00:09:17,129 --> 00:09:19,890 Alistair Brisbourne: we get into the discussions, it does seem that there 173 00:09:19,890 --> 00:09:23,578 Alistair Brisbourne: are a couple different reasons for that. One is that 174 00:09:23,580 --> 00:09:26,460 Alistair Brisbourne: there is a concern that their career path is going 175 00:09:26,460 --> 00:09:29,460 Alistair Brisbourne: to be disrupted by automation or AI. That there's a 176 00:09:29,460 --> 00:09:32,009 Alistair Brisbourne: lot of talk about those entry- level jobs being affected, 177 00:09:32,009 --> 00:09:34,649 Alistair Brisbourne: and they're very aware that that could mean them. And 178 00:09:34,649 --> 00:09:37,620 Alistair Brisbourne: so what does their career look like in the future 179 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:39,780 Alistair Brisbourne: is a challenge. Then the other side of it's the 180 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:44,490 Alistair Brisbourne: skill side. There is this impetus to be more tech- 181 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,660 Alistair Brisbourne: aware, to have that tech skillset. That's exciting for some 182 00:09:48,660 --> 00:09:52,109 Alistair Brisbourne: people, but it's not exciting for everyone. And so I 183 00:09:52,109 --> 00:09:54,780 Alistair Brisbourne: think part of it is the messaging and the communication 184 00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:58,320 Alistair Brisbourne: in that there's actually a huge opportunity and this next 185 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,470 Alistair Brisbourne: generation is going to be really, really important to how 186 00:10:01,470 --> 00:10:04,500 Alistair Brisbourne: AI is adopted. And we've already discussed how AI is 187 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:08,039 Alistair Brisbourne: really fundamental to the evolution of the accountancy profession, but 188 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,379 Alistair Brisbourne: they're going to be at the heart of devising the 189 00:10:10,379 --> 00:10:14,610 Alistair Brisbourne: solutions, the new ways of working, but also in leveraging 190 00:10:14,610 --> 00:10:17,429 Alistair Brisbourne: those new insights, as Imtiaz was saying. So they are 191 00:10:17,429 --> 00:10:20,309 Alistair Brisbourne: going to have an opportunity earlier in their career to 192 00:10:20,309 --> 00:10:24,540 Alistair Brisbourne: actually take on more strategic roles, not to be bogged 193 00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:26,578 Alistair Brisbourne: down in some of the more manual tasks that a 194 00:10:26,580 --> 00:10:30,060 Alistair Brisbourne: lot of people who qualified earlier were in their careers. 195 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,920 Alistair Brisbourne: So actually we need to communicate more the exciting opportunity that exists 196 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,439 Alistair Brisbourne: for people that are coming into the profession now because 197 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,170 Alistair Brisbourne: it does seem like job security and skills challenges are 198 00:10:40,170 --> 00:10:42,780 Alistair Brisbourne: the major concerns that Gen Z are expressing when they 199 00:10:42,780 --> 00:10:43,980 Alistair Brisbourne: think about AI. 200 00:10:44,730 --> 00:10:47,429 Maiki Lynch: And I don't know if your research touches on this, 201 00:10:47,429 --> 00:10:49,979 Maiki Lynch: but does this compare to what we're seeing in other 202 00:10:49,979 --> 00:10:52,169 Maiki Lynch: industries outside of accounting and finance? 203 00:10:52,259 --> 00:10:55,650 Alistair Brisbourne: I mean, I think a really, really good comparison is 204 00:10:55,650 --> 00:10:58,920 Alistair Brisbourne: the legal profession. It's similar in the sense that we're 205 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:00,509 Alistair Brisbourne: at a similar stage in terms of the adoption of 206 00:11:00,509 --> 00:11:03,000 Alistair Brisbourne: AI, but also some of the ways in which AI 207 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,098 Alistair Brisbourne: is starting to make a difference is similar. So we 208 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:08,458 Alistair Brisbourne: think about routine tasks in the legal profession, there's a 209 00:11:08,460 --> 00:11:11,610 Alistair Brisbourne: lot of contract or document review that has to take 210 00:11:11,610 --> 00:11:17,189 Alistair Brisbourne: place. While we're reconciling data, entering data, they're doing what 211 00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:22,769 Alistair Brisbourne: are very manual, time- intensive review tasks. They're also more 212 00:11:23,369 --> 00:11:27,840 Alistair Brisbourne: heavily involved in compliance and risk management. And so there 213 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:30,120 Alistair Brisbourne: are big similarities in terms of the way the professions 214 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,578 Alistair Brisbourne: are going. And most law firms used to have big 215 00:11:32,580 --> 00:11:35,219 Alistair Brisbourne: libraries at the heart of them, and then they moved 216 00:11:35,219 --> 00:11:38,819 Alistair Brisbourne: online to things like LexisNexis and databases, and now they're 217 00:11:38,820 --> 00:11:41,369 Alistair Brisbourne: adopting things like generative AI in order to help them 218 00:11:41,369 --> 00:11:45,480 Alistair Brisbourne: extract information from those databases more efficiently or more effectively. 219 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,080 Alistair Brisbourne: And so it's very similar to what accounting and finance 220 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,190 Alistair Brisbourne: professionals are trying to do right now, so I wonder 221 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:56,490 Alistair Brisbourne: if these two will evolve together. We could learn a 222 00:11:56,490 --> 00:11:58,409 Alistair Brisbourne: lot from each other probably in the way we're moving. 223 00:11:58,919 --> 00:12:00,689 Maiki Lynch: How do you think things are likely to change, if 224 00:12:00,689 --> 00:12:03,060 Maiki Lynch: you can perhaps look forward? 225 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,590 Alistair Brisbourne: Yeah. Imtiaz has already pointed to some really important changes 226 00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:10,500 Alistair Brisbourne: that are starting to happen, AI is really going to 227 00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:15,750 Alistair Brisbourne: enable that, and that is using AI- generated insights in order to 228 00:12:15,750 --> 00:12:19,860 Alistair Brisbourne: provide greater value. The big challenge we have is that, 229 00:12:19,860 --> 00:12:22,290 Alistair Brisbourne: as I said at the beginning, we're faced with huge 230 00:12:22,290 --> 00:12:24,780 Alistair Brisbourne: amounts of data, and getting our heads around it and 231 00:12:24,780 --> 00:12:28,889 Alistair Brisbourne: extracting the most useful insights for our organization is really 232 00:12:28,889 --> 00:12:32,099 Alistair Brisbourne: difficult and really time- consuming at the very least, and 233 00:12:32,099 --> 00:12:35,579 Alistair Brisbourne: impossible in some cases because there's too much information. And 234 00:12:35,580 --> 00:12:40,770 Alistair Brisbourne: so AI is really a huge step- up in our 235 00:12:40,770 --> 00:12:45,450 Alistair Brisbourne: ability to actually guide organizations to provide a trusted source 236 00:12:45,450 --> 00:12:49,530 Alistair Brisbourne: of advice, and also to provide greater value out of 237 00:12:49,530 --> 00:12:53,669 Alistair Brisbourne: the proprietary data that organizations have access to. And without 238 00:12:53,670 --> 00:12:56,970 Alistair Brisbourne: AI, we can't do that. So it's actually a really, 239 00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:59,850 Alistair Brisbourne: really important thing that we need to learn how to 240 00:12:59,850 --> 00:13:00,870 Alistair Brisbourne: use more effectively. 241 00:13:01,410 --> 00:13:03,450 Maiki Lynch: Where can people go to find out more about this? 242 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,309 Alistair Brisbourne: Well, we've recently released an ACCA guide to AI in 243 00:13:08,309 --> 00:13:11,218 Alistair Brisbourne: finance, I believe that was released in August last year, 244 00:13:11,219 --> 00:13:13,230 Alistair Brisbourne: which covers some of the ways in which we think 245 00:13:13,230 --> 00:13:16,348 Alistair Brisbourne: AI is going to change the profession, but also some 246 00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:20,820 Alistair Brisbourne: of our principles as an organization towards the adoption of 247 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:22,649 Alistair Brisbourne: AI and what we think needs to happen in order 248 00:13:22,650 --> 00:13:25,349 Alistair Brisbourne: to take advantage of it. There's also the Digital Horizons 249 00:13:25,349 --> 00:13:28,379 Alistair Brisbourne: report, which was released in September, which touches on some 250 00:13:28,379 --> 00:13:31,110 Alistair Brisbourne: of the practical ways in which AI is likely to 251 00:13:31,110 --> 00:13:33,179 Alistair Brisbourne: impact the profession, as well as some of the different 252 00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:36,690 Alistair Brisbourne: characteristics in terms of organizations that are leading the way 253 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:39,660 Alistair Brisbourne: in that regard. And it also touches on generative AI, 254 00:13:39,660 --> 00:13:41,969 Alistair Brisbourne: the hot topic at the time, as to why is 255 00:13:41,969 --> 00:13:44,520 Alistair Brisbourne: it exciting, why should we pay attention to it? Is 256 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,250 Alistair Brisbourne: the hype real or is there substance behind it? And so 257 00:13:47,250 --> 00:13:50,070 Alistair Brisbourne: this is available on the ACCA website and the P&I, the 258 00:13:50,070 --> 00:13:53,218 Alistair Brisbourne: policy and insights pages, and we have more work upcoming 259 00:13:53,220 --> 00:13:55,348 Alistair Brisbourne: this year certainly that's going to cover AI in much 260 00:13:55,350 --> 00:13:56,040 Alistair Brisbourne: greater depth. 261 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,469 Maiki Lynch: Imtiaz, I want to come back to you. What do 262 00:13:58,470 --> 00:14:00,389 Maiki Lynch: you think about these coming changes? 263 00:14:00,599 --> 00:14:03,690 Imtiaz Ahmad: In coming years of time, there will be more work 264 00:14:03,690 --> 00:14:07,410 Imtiaz Ahmad: on the analytical side. You are going to see where are 265 00:14:07,410 --> 00:14:11,250 Imtiaz Ahmad: the gaps, where are the inefficiencies, where are the improvement areas. 266 00:14:12,090 --> 00:14:16,950 Imtiaz Ahmad: And then work on those rather than doing the hardcore 267 00:14:17,130 --> 00:14:18,750 Imtiaz Ahmad: laborious work on your own. 268 00:14:19,170 --> 00:14:20,910 Maiki Lynch: What do you hope for the future of AI? 269 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,270 Imtiaz Ahmad: As I mentioned earlier, I mean, AI is going to 270 00:14:24,270 --> 00:14:27,210 Imtiaz Ahmad: be one side. I mean, in the coming days you 271 00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:33,330 Imtiaz Ahmad: will seeing ChatGPT stores coming just like App Store and 272 00:14:33,330 --> 00:14:35,789 Imtiaz Ahmad: those kind of plugins are going to be integrated with 273 00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:40,619 Imtiaz Ahmad: the ChatGPT and other AI platforms. It is going to 274 00:14:40,619 --> 00:14:44,760 Imtiaz Ahmad: be integrated in every process. It's going to touch accounting 275 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:49,080 Imtiaz Ahmad: side, finance side, analysis side, budgeting side. It's going to 276 00:14:49,230 --> 00:14:53,670 Imtiaz Ahmad: touch every aspect within our profession. We have multiple lines 277 00:14:53,670 --> 00:14:57,059 Imtiaz Ahmad: within our profession. We have taxation, we have the accounting, we 278 00:14:57,059 --> 00:15:00,090 Imtiaz Ahmad: have audit. Within audit, we have internal audit, external audit. 279 00:15:00,660 --> 00:15:02,640 Imtiaz Ahmad: I mean, you name it. It's not going to be 280 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,610 Imtiaz Ahmad: restricted on one pillar of the profession, it's going to 281 00:15:05,610 --> 00:15:08,849 Imtiaz Ahmad: affect all. How? I'm sure it is going to be 282 00:15:08,849 --> 00:15:12,930 Imtiaz Ahmad: a positive change and that will be a very pleasant 283 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,460 Imtiaz Ahmad: and welcoming towards the new generation who are aspiring to 284 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:19,140 Imtiaz Ahmad: join the profession actually. 285 00:15:20,070 --> 00:15:22,650 Maiki Lynch: Thank you so much. Just from what you've both said, 286 00:15:22,650 --> 00:15:25,890 Maiki Lynch: it makes me think that perhaps each generation we need 287 00:15:25,890 --> 00:15:29,430 Maiki Lynch: to be thinking about becoming that purple person, having that 288 00:15:29,639 --> 00:15:32,549 Maiki Lynch: balance between our accounting and finance skills, and also an 289 00:15:32,549 --> 00:15:37,890 Maiki Lynch: awareness and ability within technology and that space as well. 290 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,070 Maiki Lynch: Just want to come to you both and ask, is 291 00:15:41,070 --> 00:15:44,550 Maiki Lynch: AI going to take all of the accountancy jobs? Imtiaz, 292 00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:45,720 Maiki Lynch: can I come to you first? 293 00:15:45,809 --> 00:15:49,200 Imtiaz Ahmad: Yeah, sure. It's not going to replace humans at all. 294 00:15:49,889 --> 00:15:54,389 Imtiaz Ahmad: I am a big believer of enabling technology for helping 295 00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:58,350 Imtiaz Ahmad: the humans to do much more than they originally have 296 00:15:58,350 --> 00:16:01,890 Imtiaz Ahmad: been doing it before. It's going to be an enabler 297 00:16:01,890 --> 00:16:05,940 Imtiaz Ahmad: rather than destroyer. It's going to be as support towards 298 00:16:05,940 --> 00:16:10,980 Imtiaz Ahmad: humans rather than replacing the humans. It's going to see 299 00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:15,300 Imtiaz Ahmad: that wherever there is repetitive nature of works, wherever there 300 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:21,120 Imtiaz Ahmad: are laborious processes, and give more of analytical side and 301 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,600 Imtiaz Ahmad: more of that side, which AI cannot do that. No, 302 00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:28,920 Imtiaz Ahmad: there's so much creativity, so much things which humans can 303 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,710 Imtiaz Ahmad: do and AI cannot do, and AI will never be able 304 00:16:31,710 --> 00:16:36,300 Imtiaz Ahmad: to do that side of the work. There is the 305 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:38,460 Imtiaz Ahmad: gap we are going to fulfill, and that is going 306 00:16:38,460 --> 00:16:41,579 Imtiaz Ahmad: to be the side where we need to focus in 307 00:16:41,580 --> 00:16:42,210 Imtiaz Ahmad: the coming time. 308 00:16:43,140 --> 00:16:44,669 Maiki Lynch: And, Alistair, can I come to you with the same 309 00:16:44,670 --> 00:16:47,999 Maiki Lynch: question, is AI going to take all of the accountancy jobs? 310 00:16:48,059 --> 00:16:50,910 Alistair Brisbourne: Yeah, look, I couldn't agree more. I mean, artificial intelligence 311 00:16:50,910 --> 00:16:54,180 Alistair Brisbourne: is not human intelligence. They are different things and they 312 00:16:54,180 --> 00:16:57,630 Alistair Brisbourne: are good at different things. AI is a huge enabler, as 313 00:16:57,630 --> 00:17:01,620 Alistair Brisbourne: Imtiaz says, it's great for augmenting certain tasks or certain 314 00:17:01,620 --> 00:17:05,549 Alistair Brisbourne: capabilities because it can extract insights from huge data sets 315 00:17:05,940 --> 00:17:08,820 Alistair Brisbourne: that would take us ages to do. And it's great 316 00:17:08,820 --> 00:17:11,010 Alistair Brisbourne: for that. It's great for other things in terms of 317 00:17:11,010 --> 00:17:14,070 Alistair Brisbourne: reviewing documents, producing text now with generative AI, there are 318 00:17:14,070 --> 00:17:16,260 Alistair Brisbourne: great ways in which we can employ it, but it's 319 00:17:16,260 --> 00:17:19,379 Alistair Brisbourne: not the same as the problem- solving capabilities than the 320 00:17:19,380 --> 00:17:23,369 Alistair Brisbourne: accountant has because of the contextual knowledge that humans can 321 00:17:23,369 --> 00:17:27,570 Alistair Brisbourne: apply because of the ... There's deep domain expertise and the experience 322 00:17:27,570 --> 00:17:29,850 Alistair Brisbourne: they have in seeing the way things can go wrong. 323 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:34,109 Alistair Brisbourne: So AI will actually need someone to monitor and provide 324 00:17:34,109 --> 00:17:36,900 Alistair Brisbourne: oversight. And even if we think about those entry level 325 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:40,380 Alistair Brisbourne: jobs, which we could say are maybe most at risk 326 00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:43,590 Alistair Brisbourne: in terms of reduction in the number that might be 327 00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:47,698 Alistair Brisbourne: required, you still need someone there who understands the basic 328 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:51,388 Alistair Brisbourne: principles, how things work, and to oversee the system to 329 00:17:51,388 --> 00:17:54,750 Alistair Brisbourne: make sure it's operating correctly, because machine learning AI is 330 00:17:54,750 --> 00:17:57,240 Alistair Brisbourne: not perfect either. This is where you get that purple 331 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,730 Alistair Brisbourne: person that you were talking about, that merging of skillsets, 332 00:17:59,730 --> 00:18:02,609 Alistair Brisbourne: someone that has the domain expertise in accountancy but also 333 00:18:02,609 --> 00:18:05,129 Alistair Brisbourne: more of a technical side. This is a huge opportunity 334 00:18:05,130 --> 00:18:07,560 Alistair Brisbourne: in that area. I think what we're going to see 335 00:18:07,619 --> 00:18:11,490 Alistair Brisbourne: is actually a proliferation of specialisms. And the challenge we 336 00:18:11,490 --> 00:18:13,948 Alistair Brisbourne: have right now is we can't actually see all the 337 00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:16,170 Alistair Brisbourne: jobs that are going to be created, all the new 338 00:18:16,170 --> 00:18:20,310 Alistair Brisbourne: areas where there will be new jobs or new roles 339 00:18:20,310 --> 00:18:22,560 Alistair Brisbourne: that are required in order to better make use of 340 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,879 Alistair Brisbourne: this technology, to extract more value for our organization. And 341 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,100 Alistair Brisbourne: that's something that is just going to evolve through practice, 342 00:18:29,849 --> 00:18:33,539 Alistair Brisbourne: the work that Imtiaz is doing, and other people, they're 343 00:18:33,540 --> 00:18:37,320 Alistair Brisbourne: developing those roles. And we're sitting back and we're trying 344 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,480 Alistair Brisbourne: to figure out with our crystal balls what's going to 345 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,740 Alistair Brisbourne: happen. But no, absolutely, it's not going to replace accountants, 346 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,920 Alistair Brisbourne: it's not going to replace roles in wholesale. It will 347 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,650 Alistair Brisbourne: change roles, it will change what people do. 348 00:18:50,220 --> 00:18:54,840 Maiki Lynch: Thank you both for your answer to that question. That's fantastic. If someone at home 349 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,319 Maiki Lynch: is considering a career in accounting and finance, Alistair, I 350 00:18:58,319 --> 00:19:00,478 Maiki Lynch: want to come to you first, what advice might you 351 00:19:00,479 --> 00:19:02,159 Maiki Lynch: give them if they're considering it? 352 00:19:02,580 --> 00:19:05,069 Alistair Brisbourne: I mean, that's a really good question. It's a difficult 353 00:19:05,069 --> 00:19:09,809 Alistair Brisbourne: question in the sense that the qualification, accountants do so many 354 00:19:09,809 --> 00:19:13,650 Alistair Brisbourne: different roles. I think sometimes it's assumed that accountants do 355 00:19:14,010 --> 00:19:17,070 Alistair Brisbourne: one thing, but actually I was sitting down with my 356 00:19:17,070 --> 00:19:18,690 Alistair Brisbourne: colleagues the other day and we were trying to list 357 00:19:18,690 --> 00:19:21,450 Alistair Brisbourne: all the roles that accountants do and we just kept 358 00:19:21,660 --> 00:19:24,359 Alistair Brisbourne: going from page to page to page. And so I 359 00:19:24,359 --> 00:19:29,790 Alistair Brisbourne: think it's really exciting. If someone wants to understand how 360 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:36,540 Alistair Brisbourne: business works or how organizations operate, what is driving value 361 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:40,710 Alistair Brisbourne: within organizations, then I think this is a great career 362 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,679 Alistair Brisbourne: for anyone who has that kind of mindset, who maybe 363 00:19:43,679 --> 00:19:47,188 Alistair Brisbourne: has that analytical mindset, has that problem- solving mindset, who 364 00:19:47,190 --> 00:19:49,740 Alistair Brisbourne: really wants to get involved and make a difference. 365 00:19:50,189 --> 00:19:53,580 Maiki Lynch: Thank you. And, Imtiaz, can I come to you, your advice to someone 366 00:19:53,580 --> 00:19:55,950 Maiki Lynch: who's considering a career in accounting and finance? 367 00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:00,750 Imtiaz Ahmad: Look, this is an interesting question. I would like to 368 00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:05,699 Imtiaz Ahmad: see, no matter what technological developments, no matter what advancements 369 00:20:05,699 --> 00:20:10,408 Imtiaz Ahmad: are there, money is going to be there. It moved 370 00:20:10,410 --> 00:20:13,860 Imtiaz Ahmad: from hardcore cash to a number in the bank account, 371 00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:16,410 Imtiaz Ahmad: and then the coming years of time when we are 372 00:20:16,410 --> 00:20:21,480 Imtiaz Ahmad: going to introduce the blockchain technology, and then these will be something 373 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,240 Imtiaz Ahmad: else. However, the concept of money is not going to 374 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:29,190 Imtiaz Ahmad: fade away because it has evolved over centuries actually. As 375 00:20:29,190 --> 00:20:31,109 Imtiaz Ahmad: long as there is money, there will always be need 376 00:20:31,109 --> 00:20:31,859 Imtiaz Ahmad: of accountants. 377 00:20:31,859 --> 00:20:35,670 Maiki Lynch: That's fantastic. Thank you so much. That's it for this 378 00:20:35,670 --> 00:20:39,299 Maiki Lynch: episode of By All Accounts. Thank you Imtiaz and Alistair 379 00:20:39,299 --> 00:20:41,939 Maiki Lynch: for joining us today. And that's it from the series. 380 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,129 Maiki Lynch: I hope it's cleared up some questions for you about 381 00:20:44,130 --> 00:20:47,790 Maiki Lynch: working in the financial industries. With skills in accountancy finance 382 00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:50,880 Maiki Lynch: you can work in any business anywhere and turn your 383 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,509 Maiki Lynch: passion into an exciting and rewarding career with an ACCA 384 00:20:54,509 --> 00:20:57,059 Maiki Lynch: qualification. You can sign up to find out more by 385 00:20:57,059 --> 00:21:02,340 Maiki Lynch: heading to accaglobal. com/ be- you- anywhere. That link is also in 386 00:21:02,970 --> 00:21:06,150 Maiki Lynch: the show notes. I'm Maiki Lynch and this has been 387 00:21:06,390 --> 00:21:07,110 Maiki Lynch: By All Accounts.