WEBVTT - Stay One Step Ahead Of Scammers 0:00:01.139 --> 0:00:03.990 Hi, this is Kia. Money scams seem like a part 0:00:03.990 --> 0:00:06.930 of everyday life now and something we must be constantly 0:00:06.930 --> 0:00:09.809 on the lookout for. Scammers are getting smarter and have 0:00:09.809 --> 0:00:12.270 plenty of clever ways to con people out of their 0:00:12.270 --> 0:00:15.089 cash. And it's young people that are most likely to 0:00:15.089 --> 0:00:18.059 be scammed. Welcome to another episode of a Little Bit 0:00:18.059 --> 0:00:20.850 Richer, brought to you by my friends at Legal & General. 0:00:21.780 --> 0:00:23.430 Here to keep us on High Alert is Head of 0:00:23.430 --> 0:00:28.110 Fraud Risk Management at Santander Chris Ainsley. So Chris, aren't 0:00:28.110 --> 0:00:30.120 scams something that happened more to older people? 0:00:30.630 --> 0:00:33.750 Scammers don't discriminate. Scams can happen to anyone of any 0:00:33.750 --> 0:00:36.900 age. And what we find is that lots of people 0:00:36.900 --> 0:00:38.519 think that the scam will never happen to them. They 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:40.320 think they're immune to it, it's not going to happen 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.549 to them. Typically, we'll see younger people contacting us in 0:00:44.550 --> 0:00:47.700 relation to three main types of scams. The first is 0:00:47.700 --> 0:00:50.340 where they've seen something on social media, on a marketplace and 0:00:50.340 --> 0:00:52.619 have made a purchase and that's never turned up. They're 0:00:52.619 --> 0:00:58.950 often luxury goods, electronics, shoes, jewelry. Sometimes it's pets and 0:00:58.950 --> 0:01:00.930 even up to the value of something like a car. 0:01:01.260 --> 0:01:03.779 But, there are also other types of scams which aren't 0:01:03.780 --> 0:01:05.639 just about you losing your money. They can involve you 0:01:05.639 --> 0:01:08.039 becoming part of a crime. So, what we call money 0:01:08.039 --> 0:01:11.548 mules, that's where someone ends up essentially getting the money 0:01:11.549 --> 0:01:13.440 for their criminals and giving it to them into their own 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.050 bank account. And that's really common. We find people being 0:01:16.050 --> 0:01:19.589 recruited on social media. There's hashtags that they'll follow and get- rich- 0:01:19.590 --> 0:01:23.099 quick type schemes. But also, what we call impersonation scams 0:01:23.099 --> 0:01:25.349 are a big problem for younger people. And that's basically 0:01:25.349 --> 0:01:26.969 the kind of scam where you might see you've got 0:01:26.969 --> 0:01:29.068 a fake text message and you put your details into 0:01:29.069 --> 0:01:31.110 it. And then someone will call you and pretend to 0:01:31.110 --> 0:01:34.140 be from maybe a bank, maybe the police, and trick you 0:01:34.140 --> 0:01:36.479 into moving your money somewhere you wouldn't usually. And younger 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:39.240 people who are more engaged with technology or on social media 0:01:39.450 --> 0:01:41.370 are probably more likely to be victims of those kinds 0:01:41.370 --> 0:01:42.630 of frauds than older people. 0:01:42.900 --> 0:01:44.940 I completely agree. I've been getting a lot of scam 0:01:44.940 --> 0:01:47.459 text messages and emails and I know that it's a 0:01:47.459 --> 0:01:49.830 big thing. Like you mentioned, social media is where I've 0:01:49.830 --> 0:01:52.230 seen the vast majority. But, I want to touch on 0:01:52.500 --> 0:01:56.160 one that you mentioned is money mules. Now, I am, 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:57.899 I guess I'm classed as Gen Z, and I'm in 0:01:57.900 --> 0:02:00.900 that audience. And I've seen a lot of people, like you said, this get- rich- 0:02:00.900 --> 0:02:04.289 quick thing, make quick money, just take money into your bank 0:02:04.289 --> 0:02:07.109 account and you can have a cut. But, could you give us 0:02:07.109 --> 0:02:09.840 an example of what a money mule looks like? 0:02:10.050 --> 0:02:12.660 Yeah. Sure. If we focus on the get- rich- quick type 0:02:12.660 --> 0:02:15.450 of thing first, I think one of those things that 0:02:15.450 --> 0:02:18.299 people might be often looking for is a side hustle. 0:02:18.570 --> 0:02:20.400 Or something where they're going to make a little bit 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:22.590 more extra money to pay for those extra things that ... 0:02:23.100 --> 0:02:25.919 Their bills are costing more, et cetera, et cetera. And 0:02:26.490 --> 0:02:29.100 if you're on online, there's two kind of things you 0:02:29.100 --> 0:02:31.980 might end up getting involved with. The first might be 0:02:31.980 --> 0:02:34.410 some kind of investment scam, where basically you end up 0:02:34.410 --> 0:02:37.470 giving someone your money thinking you're going to get a bigger return and 0:02:37.500 --> 0:02:40.529 you get nothing. That often involves things like high- return 0:02:40.529 --> 0:02:42.930 crypto scams, things like that. And I see those all over social 0:02:42.930 --> 0:02:46.050 media. The other one is whether criminals use you and 0:02:46.050 --> 0:02:48.180 your bank account. And that is really a problem. So, 0:02:48.660 --> 0:02:50.669 they might have posted lots of images of loads of 0:02:50.669 --> 0:02:53.250 cash or whatever else. But, essentially what they're trying to 0:02:53.250 --> 0:02:56.008 do is use you to hide their crime. So, instead 0:02:56.008 --> 0:02:58.499 of getting money paid into the organized criminal's bank accounts, 0:02:58.500 --> 0:03:01.169 which they don't have anyway, they'll use a lot of 0:03:01.169 --> 0:03:04.290 people to receive smaller amounts of money and you might 0:03:04.290 --> 0:03:05.820 be able to give them the cash. You might be asked 0:03:05.820 --> 0:03:07.230 to buy things and give it to them. You might 0:03:07.230 --> 0:03:09.480 be asked to even give them access to your bank 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.429 account, give them your card or give your online banking 0:03:11.429 --> 0:03:14.700 details. And what you'll find is you may think you 0:03:14.700 --> 0:03:16.589 are working for them, you may think you've got a 0:03:16.590 --> 0:03:18.089 job or you may think you're going to get a 0:03:18.090 --> 0:03:20.669 cut of whatever's happening. What you end up doing is, 0:03:20.669 --> 0:03:24.450 essentially, committing a criminal offense. And being a money mule 0:03:24.450 --> 0:03:26.910 is essentially a money laundering offense, which if you look 0:03:26.910 --> 0:03:28.650 at it, it's up to 14 years in prison. 0:03:28.889 --> 0:03:28.949 Wow! 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.250 And that is irrespective of the value of what ends 0:03:32.250 --> 0:03:34.770 up happening. So, every fraud we see, every scam that 0:03:34.770 --> 0:03:37.410 involves moving money from one bank account to another has 0:03:37.410 --> 0:03:39.690 to have one of those money mules. And therefore the 0:03:39.690 --> 0:03:41.430 criminals are always looking for new ones. 0:03:41.430 --> 0:03:43.920 Mm- hmm. It's the criminal offense part. I think that's 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.009 what a lot of people don't realize or don't maybe 0:03:47.010 --> 0:03:49.710 take as seriously. For example, when I was at university, 0:03:49.710 --> 0:03:52.109 I had a few friends and everyone's strapped for cash. 0:03:52.109 --> 0:03:54.750 When you're in university, you don't have much money. But, they were 0:03:54.750 --> 0:03:57.900 approached by some guys that we knew to, like you 0:03:57.900 --> 0:04:00.420 said, use your bank account. If you want to transfer some money over 0:04:00.420 --> 0:04:01.830 and you send it back to us and you keep 0:04:01.830 --> 0:04:04.139 a cut. And I remember we had this conversation and I 0:04:04.139 --> 0:04:05.969 told everyone, " I don't think it's a good idea. I know 0:04:05.969 --> 0:04:07.380 we're all strapped for cash, but I don't think it's a good 0:04:07.380 --> 0:04:10.320 idea." They went ahead with it and it turns out that 0:04:10.650 --> 0:04:12.210 not only did they take in the money, but the 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.670 guys who they gave access to the account to ... The girl? Her parents had 0:04:15.690 --> 0:04:18.390 been saving for her and they stole all her savings 0:04:18.510 --> 0:04:20.730 out of her account, which was just ... It was terrible. 0:04:20.849 --> 0:04:22.710 Yeah. And I think that the problem you've got there is the 0:04:22.710 --> 0:04:24.389 minimum that's going to happen is you're going to lose access 0:04:24.389 --> 0:04:27.299 to your bank account. And actually, in reality, you may lose 0:04:27.299 --> 0:04:30.270 access to any kind of bank account or financial service 0:04:30.270 --> 0:04:33.630 for maybe as long as six years, if you end 0:04:33.630 --> 0:04:36.180 up being reported as a mule. And the most that 0:04:36.180 --> 0:04:37.890 can happen really is some kind of criminal offense. But, 0:04:37.890 --> 0:04:41.969 you'll also potentially get involved with some horrible serious organized 0:04:41.969 --> 0:04:43.589 criminals, who'll be doing other things behind that. And it 0:04:43.589 --> 0:04:45.988 might be as simple as you think you're giving away the £1, 0:04:45.990 --> 0:04:48.779 000 that you receive, but where's that money going? What's 0:04:48.809 --> 0:04:52.169 it involved with? Once it's entering their criminal hands, it's 0:04:52.170 --> 0:04:56.580 probably funding drugs, guns, knives, whatever else is going on, 0:04:57.059 --> 0:04:59.969 up to serious levels of criminality, because it's then become 0:04:59.969 --> 0:05:01.979 essentially the proceeds of a crime. 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:04.800 Yes. Absolutely. I'm glad that we're raising awareness of this. 0:05:04.830 --> 0:05:06.479 But, let's move on to something you touched on a little bit 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:08.970 earlier and it's buying things online. We see all the 0:05:08.970 --> 0:05:12.180 shiny things on social media, it looks great. And like 0:05:12.180 --> 0:05:13.618 you said, you might be wanting to buy trainers, a 0:05:13.620 --> 0:05:15.690 new car. And sometimes you see things and you're like, " 0:05:15.870 --> 0:05:17.460 This is a really good price. I'm going to buy 0:05:17.460 --> 0:05:19.770 this because it's cheaper than what I've seen elsewhere." What 0:05:19.770 --> 0:05:21.450 are some of the warning signs that we should be 0:05:21.450 --> 0:05:23.609 aware of when we're shopping and buying things online? 0:05:23.820 --> 0:05:25.350 I think in general, a lot of people, if they're 0:05:25.350 --> 0:05:27.930 looking for something online, if they know what they're going 0:05:27.930 --> 0:05:29.880 to buy and it's something regular, they might go to an 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:33.150 online site, Amazon, wherever. And that's something they can get 0:05:33.150 --> 0:05:35.400 straight away. If they want something that's maybe a bit 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:38.370 more expensive, the second- hand option is so much more 0:05:38.370 --> 0:05:41.249 obvious than ever was before. You can go to social 0:05:41.250 --> 0:05:43.890 media marketplaces and you can have a look and you 0:05:43.890 --> 0:05:46.589 can find a bargain. The problem with that is the 0:05:46.589 --> 0:05:52.049 criminals know that as well. And in reality, those marketplaces, 0:05:52.050 --> 0:05:55.440 especially the Facebook marketplace, are for local purchases, right? They're 0:05:55.500 --> 0:05:58.260 absolutely brilliant and I've bought things off there and I've 0:05:58.260 --> 0:06:00.059 gone and picked them up and you can get some 0:06:00.059 --> 0:06:03.120 brilliant stuff. The problem is the criminals know that, and what they 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.820 will do is, they might take over someone's profile so 0:06:05.820 --> 0:06:08.399 it looks like a genuine person. They'll then post a 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.589 lot of things on there for sale that people really 0:06:10.589 --> 0:06:13.558 want. That might be things that are lower price than 0:06:13.559 --> 0:06:15.480 everything else. So, if you search high to low or 0:06:15.480 --> 0:06:17.160 whatever else you do when you're looking for these things 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.529 online. And what they'll ask you to do is pay 0:06:19.529 --> 0:06:21.719 by a bank transfer. So, if you think when you're 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:23.940 shopping on Amazon or wherever else you're putting your card details 0:06:23.940 --> 0:06:26.130 in, you've got the protection of, and you can raise that 0:06:26.130 --> 0:06:28.770 with your bank. If you end up making a payment 0:06:28.770 --> 0:06:30.960 that you're essentially giving them as if you're giving cash, 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.870 but you do it from your bank, you've got no idea who you're 0:06:33.870 --> 0:06:36.089 paying. You've got no real idea if you're ever going 0:06:36.089 --> 0:06:37.890 to receive those goods. You're not dealing with a company 0:06:37.890 --> 0:06:40.529 or dealing with another person. And also you can't really 0:06:40.529 --> 0:06:43.529 check reviews of a person selling you something on a 0:06:43.529 --> 0:06:46.380 marketplace. When we've done research, and we did some very 0:06:46.380 --> 0:06:50.008 specific research ourselves into cars that were posted on Facebook, 0:06:50.070 --> 0:06:52.500 so we're not talking £ 100 for a phone, we're talking- 0:06:52.619 --> 0:06:52.681 A lot of money. 0:06:52.681 --> 0:06:56.490 ... thousands of pounds for cars. And in just 35 0:06:56.490 --> 0:06:59.940 minutes, my team found 4, 000 fake car adverts. 0:07:00.990 --> 0:07:01.171 4, 000? 0:07:01.171 --> 0:07:03.839 Yeah,. 4,000. And what we did essentially was, we almost looked 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.389 for every single car that you would search for, Volkswagen Golf, 0:07:06.599 --> 0:07:08.998 Mini Cooper. All those cars, put them in. We looked 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.609 for the cheapest ones and then we looked at the 0:07:11.609 --> 0:07:13.920 details. And often the details of the car didn't match. 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:16.020 They said they were electric when they weren't. They're all 0:07:16.020 --> 0:07:18.810 massively under priced. If you looked at another site, where 0:07:18.810 --> 0:07:21.840 you'd buy cars. Often thousands of pounds under priced, so 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.960 they're always the cheapest. And then, when we were interacting 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.149 with the poster of the car, what we found is they 0:07:27.150 --> 0:07:30.900 often had 10 or 12 cars posted, some of them had hundreds. All 0:07:30.900 --> 0:07:33.030 of them had a straightforward, they came straight back to 0:07:33.030 --> 0:07:34.679 you on the marketplace giving you an email address to 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:36.720 write to. And almost every single one of them then 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:38.519 told you that car was in storage, it was being 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:41.190 auctioned. If you agreed to pay that price now and 0:07:41.190 --> 0:07:43.710 you sent it to them via bank transfer, often to 0:07:43.710 --> 0:07:46.619 an account in a business name that was unrelated in 0:07:46.619 --> 0:07:48.929 any way to the actual seller, you could get the 0:07:48.930 --> 0:07:50.940 car delivered to you and you had a 10- day (inaudible) . So, 0:07:50.940 --> 0:07:53.880 there was fake guarantee documents. But, there was 4, 000 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:55.560 of those that we found and almost every car you 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.510 could imagine. And they were all posted in the local 0:07:57.510 --> 0:07:57.871 area as well. 0:07:57.871 --> 0:08:01.740 That's so mind- blowing. 4, 000 just shows you how 0:08:01.830 --> 0:08:04.859 many fake ads are out there. And something is expensive 0:08:04.859 --> 0:08:06.839 as a car, but which your first car you're upgrading, 0:08:07.019 --> 0:08:10.200 that is a lot of money to put down on anything. 0:08:10.260 --> 0:08:12.000 And on those car scams, when we looked at our 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.880 own customers that reported to us, about 20% of all 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.400 those customers that had reported a car scam of some 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:18.960 description like that to us were under the age of 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.679 25. 20%. So, that's because there was a £ 3, 000 price for a car 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.680 that might be 8, 000, 9,000, 10,000. So, they thought they were 0:08:25.680 --> 0:08:28.560 getting a really good price. And in reality the advice that 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:30.390 we would give them is, if you haven't sat in 0:08:30.390 --> 0:08:32.760 the car, test driven it, don't pay out any money. 0:08:32.849 --> 0:08:35.669 Absolutely. I I don't have an example as big as that, 0:08:35.969 --> 0:08:38.370 but a few months ago I was looking to buy 0:08:38.370 --> 0:08:40.738 a new laptop. I was buying a gaming laptop. And 0:08:40.740 --> 0:08:42.539 I'd gone online and I'd found one. I said, " Okay. 0:08:42.540 --> 0:08:44.460 That's the one I want to get," and I was 0:08:44.460 --> 0:08:47.040 still just double checking. And then my dad said, " Check 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:48.960 and see how many they're selling," and when we went to 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.690 see how many (inaudible) was selling, there was tons, 0:08:51.690 --> 0:08:54.540 so many. And they're all very similar descriptions. And then, 0:08:54.540 --> 0:08:56.130 that's when we realized actually this doesn't feel like a 0:08:56.130 --> 0:08:57.990 genuine seller, so we had to go somewhere else. But, like I 0:08:57.990 --> 0:09:00.119 said, it's all about the due diligence, because I wouldn't 0:09:00.119 --> 0:09:01.800 have bought that one straight away. But, if I hadn't, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:03.569 I'd just seen it and bought it, I could have 0:09:03.570 --> 0:09:04.800 fallen victim to that as well. 0:09:04.890 --> 0:09:06.900 Yeah. And I think one of the things is, it's 0:09:06.900 --> 0:09:08.639 not just when you're buying things off those sites as 0:09:08.639 --> 0:09:13.708 well. If you're selling stuff ... And I've posted ridiculous things 0:09:13.710 --> 0:09:16.379 like a phone or some old baby equipment or whatever 0:09:16.379 --> 0:09:19.650 else. You will end up being attacked by the scammers 0:09:19.650 --> 0:09:21.330 on that as well. So, they'll be asking, " Can you 0:09:21.330 --> 0:09:23.309 send it to me? Can you pay for this insurance 0:09:23.309 --> 0:09:24.540 product, because I'm going to get someone to come and 0:09:24.540 --> 0:09:27.240 collect it." So, it's not just when you are buying things off 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:28.830 there, you've got to be careful. If you're also selling 0:09:28.830 --> 0:09:31.228 things, you might end up losing money and also not 0:09:31.230 --> 0:09:33.360 selling the thing in the first place, because again, it's 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.458 a real common scam that we're seeing, where customers have 0:09:35.458 --> 0:09:38.160 been asked to buy things or pay for extra shipping, 0:09:38.160 --> 0:09:40.470 or whatever, to send to someone, even for a low- 0:09:40.470 --> 0:09:41.070 value item. 0:09:41.220 --> 0:09:42.570 Gosh, there's a lot to be aware of. But, let 0:09:42.570 --> 0:09:43.890 me just circle back to something you touched on earlier, 0:09:43.890 --> 0:09:47.219 and that's impersonation scams. So, what should we be on 0:09:47.219 --> 0:09:50.309 the lookout for if we receive calls or someone gets 0:09:50.309 --> 0:09:51.990 in touch with us pretending to be someone that they're 0:09:51.990 --> 0:09:52.559 actually not? 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.170 Yeah. So, I think on impersonation scam, and if we 0:09:55.170 --> 0:09:57.900 focus in on what the fraudsters are really trying to 0:09:57.900 --> 0:09:59.880 do when they're pretending to be a bank, for example. 0:09:59.880 --> 0:10:03.179 So, we see impersonation scams pretending to be mobile phone 0:10:03.179 --> 0:10:06.358 companies, the police, the HMRC. But, if we look at 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.490 the ones that affect the banks, which is probably the 0:10:08.490 --> 0:10:10.200 most common ones, because they want to get into your 0:10:10.320 --> 0:10:13.500 bank account, they are usually someone calling you and saying 0:10:13.500 --> 0:10:16.770 that your account is somehow compromised. Your account's been defrauded, 0:10:16.770 --> 0:10:18.390 someone's trying to get in. They might have sent you 0:10:18.390 --> 0:10:21.150 a fake text message. And what I try to explain 0:10:21.150 --> 0:10:23.280 to people is usually that's come off the back of 0:10:23.580 --> 0:10:26.009 you unwittingly having given away your information to them in 0:10:26.009 --> 0:10:29.189 some way. So, what we've found is ... This is through 0:10:29.190 --> 0:10:31.350 work we've done with the police and our own research, 0:10:31.830 --> 0:10:34.410 is that most of those type of scams where someone's 0:10:34.410 --> 0:10:36.990 calling you pretending to be from your bank actually relate 0:10:36.990 --> 0:10:39.090 back to another scam that people probably are very much 0:10:39.090 --> 0:10:41.429 aware of, which is you getting these fake text messages 0:10:41.429 --> 0:10:43.469 saying they're from delivery companies. And I've had like six- 0:10:43.469 --> 0:10:43.470 Same. 0:10:43.470 --> 0:10:45.509 ... in the last couple of weeks. They're obviously at 0:10:45.509 --> 0:10:49.890 it again, these criminals. And most of those ask you 0:10:49.890 --> 0:10:52.738 for some very simple information and they'll literally just ask you, " 0:10:53.340 --> 0:10:56.040 Your parcel hasn't been delivered, put in your postcard and 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:57.750 your name. We'll check it." And they'll do a fake 0:10:57.750 --> 0:10:59.490 screen. Sometimes they might then ask you for your card 0:10:59.490 --> 0:11:01.770 number just to pay for something. And from that information 0:11:01.770 --> 0:11:03.509 they know enough about you to give you a call. 0:11:03.750 --> 0:11:06.029 So, if you put in your card number, the first few 0:11:06.029 --> 0:11:07.559 numbers of that card will tell you who you bank 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:09.780 with. Won't even need to ask your bank account number or 0:11:09.780 --> 0:11:11.760 your bank name. They can tell that from that. They've 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.559 got your name, your address, your postcode, maybe your date 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.719 of birth, whatever else you've given them. And then they'll 0:11:15.719 --> 0:11:17.730 call you. So, they don't do anything else. All they 0:11:17.730 --> 0:11:19.949 need is that information to then call you and pretend 0:11:19.950 --> 0:11:22.649 to be your bank or someone else. And they might 0:11:22.650 --> 0:11:24.660 even say, " Oh, have you received any fake text messages?" Or, " 0:11:24.660 --> 0:11:26.730 Have you done this as part of that scam?" And 0:11:26.730 --> 0:11:29.400 then what will happen is they will do whatever they 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.559 can to get your money out of you. And often 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:33.360 that takes the form of them saying, " Right. We need 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.940 you to secure your account. Move money out of it. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:38.820 Make a payment. Change your limit. Do this. Give me 0:11:38.820 --> 0:11:41.339 your card number," whatever else. And it'll depend on who 0:11:41.340 --> 0:11:42.780 you bank with and how many accounts you've got and 0:11:42.780 --> 0:11:45.630 how much money they think you've got. But, in reality, 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:48.450 if someone ever phones you, saying they're from your bank, 0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:51.719 your bank won't ask you to move any money. Your 0:11:51.719 --> 0:11:53.639 bank won't ask you to log onto your online banking 0:11:53.639 --> 0:11:55.440 and check. Your bank certainly won't ask you what your 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.619 bank balance is, because they know. They won't be working 0:11:58.619 --> 0:12:00.809 with other banks. They won't be working directly with the 0:12:00.929 --> 0:12:04.140 police or whatever other story is being spun. And we've 0:12:04.140 --> 0:12:06.360 set up a specific phone line for customers to know 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.610 they can call their bank just really simply. So, if 0:12:08.610 --> 0:12:11.759 you just dial 159 from your phone and you choose 0:12:11.759 --> 0:12:13.410 which of your banks is, it'll put you straight through. 0:12:13.410 --> 0:12:15.990 So, if you get one of those phone calls, you 0:12:15.990 --> 0:12:18.059 can literally put the phone down on whoever it is. 0:12:18.119 --> 0:12:20.760 That's always great, because the bank won't mind if it's 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.580 real. They'll think you're doing the right thing. And literally 0:12:23.580 --> 0:12:25.620 you can dial 159 and choose your bank and go 0:12:25.620 --> 0:12:27.208 through to directly and say, " Have you called me? Is 0:12:27.210 --> 0:12:28.980 there a problem? Have you sent me a text message?" 0:12:29.460 --> 0:12:32.340 So, that's how that scan works. And the thing is, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.770 it doesn't work every time, but they're doing it thousands 0:12:34.770 --> 0:12:36.599 of times. They're sending out thousands of those text messages. 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:38.971 Everybody I've ever met has had one of those delivery scams- 0:12:38.971 --> 0:12:38.972 Yes. 0:12:38.972 --> 0:12:41.250 ... in the same way as everyone I've ever met has 0:12:41.250 --> 0:12:44.250 had one of those, " Hi, Mum," " Hi, Dad," WhatsApp messages 0:12:44.250 --> 0:12:46.770 or whatever else. And same idea. Pretend to be someone 0:12:46.770 --> 0:12:49.439 else, ask you to make a payment. And if you 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.389 are moving money from your account, you really need to 0:12:51.389 --> 0:12:52.919 be sure no one's ever going to ask you to 0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:54.570 move money. No one's ever going to ask you for 0:12:54.570 --> 0:12:57.240 that kind of payment. So, that's the simple advice really 0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:57.540 on that one. 0:12:57.660 --> 0:13:00.030 Absolutely. So, it's really important for us to be vigilant. 0:13:00.030 --> 0:13:02.639 So, off the back of that now, how can our 0:13:02.639 --> 0:13:06.838 listeners be careful and ensure that they don't risk losing 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:08.579 any money? Because we've heard a lot of these scams 0:13:08.580 --> 0:13:11.039 and some of them are very sophisticated as you said, 0:13:11.039 --> 0:13:12.478 and you can't always spot it. But, how can our 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:15.420 listeners make sure that they're being very careful and not 0:13:15.420 --> 0:13:16.080 risking anything? 0:13:16.290 --> 0:13:18.720 If you're talking about buying something, it's always, if it's 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:20.459 too good to be true, it might well be. So, 0:13:20.700 --> 0:13:22.469 we've seen lots of different types of scams on those 0:13:22.469 --> 0:13:25.199 social media marketplaces. If you're thinking, " That looks really good," 0:13:25.620 --> 0:13:27.208 if you're buying off that kind of place, make sure 0:13:27.270 --> 0:13:29.429 it's for local pickup. So, if it's in your local 0:13:29.429 --> 0:13:31.500 area, go and have a look at it and make sure 0:13:31.500 --> 0:13:32.880 it's what you want. And you will still find the 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:34.441 bargains. We're not saying you can ignore the bargains- 0:13:34.441 --> 0:13:35.790 We are not saying all the bargains are fake. 0:13:36.059 --> 0:13:38.130 In no way, and I've done it. So, it's not 0:13:38.130 --> 0:13:40.919 that they don't exist. What I would say is on 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:43.380 the other types of frauds that you see, especially those 0:13:43.380 --> 0:13:46.830 impersonation scams, they'll try and rush you. They'll try and 0:13:47.100 --> 0:13:49.679 make you concerned that there's something going wrong, that your bank 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:52.530 account's being compromised. And let's be honest, if your bank 0:13:52.530 --> 0:13:54.540 account has been compromised in some way and your bank 0:13:54.540 --> 0:13:57.750 needs to get hold of you, they can message you. 0:13:57.809 --> 0:13:59.550 You'll see it in your mobile app, if you've got 0:13:59.550 --> 0:14:02.250 that. You'll see it on your online banking. They'll literally 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:03.958 be able to deal with everything for you and they won't 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:05.670 rush you. They won't ask you to make payments or 0:14:05.670 --> 0:14:07.559 any of that kind of stuff. And nor will anyone 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.230 else. The police aren't going to phone you and do 0:14:10.230 --> 0:14:13.020 that, Amazon or whoever else the fraudsters like to impersonate 0:14:13.020 --> 0:14:14.280 aren't going to do that sort of thing. And I 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.670 think one of the things about buying things, or making 0:14:17.670 --> 0:14:19.860 any payments is, if you're making a payment from your 0:14:19.860 --> 0:14:22.199 bank account, you should know what it's for. If you 0:14:22.199 --> 0:14:24.209 feel that someone's asking you to do that and you 0:14:24.209 --> 0:14:27.240 don't know why you'd be doing, it's not right. So, 0:14:27.540 --> 0:14:29.100 everything that goes in and out your account, you should 0:14:29.100 --> 0:14:31.470 know 100% what it is. And if you don't, you 0:14:31.470 --> 0:14:33.599 query it and you query it with your bank, not 0:14:33.599 --> 0:14:36.419 the person who just phoned you. But, taking a short 0:14:36.420 --> 0:14:38.339 break and thinking before you make any payment is always 0:14:38.340 --> 0:14:40.410 what you do. I know people are feeling, especially when 0:14:40.410 --> 0:14:43.680 they're being manipulated by the criminal, that's a problem. You need to take 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:46.020 a step back and think, " Is this what's really happening?" 0:14:46.260 --> 0:14:48.870 Scammers are everywhere. Always take a think before you respond 0:14:48.870 --> 0:14:49.320 to anything. 0:14:49.380 --> 0:14:53.190 Absolutely. So could you give us three top tips for 0:14:53.190 --> 0:14:56.490 our listeners who maybe feel like they may have been 0:14:56.490 --> 0:14:57.360 scammed already? 0:14:57.630 --> 0:15:00.359 Yeah. So, I think the first one is you're not 0:15:00.359 --> 0:15:02.430 going to be alone. So, if you want to have 0:15:02.430 --> 0:15:05.790 a chat with someone else, close family friend, brother, sister, 0:15:05.790 --> 0:15:08.610 whoever, just to say, " This has happened to me or 0:15:08.610 --> 0:15:11.190 this is going on, what do you think?" Always the 0:15:11.190 --> 0:15:13.380 first thing to do, take advice. Speak to someone else, 0:15:13.770 --> 0:15:17.339 share your problem. And then, essentially, if there is a 0:15:17.340 --> 0:15:20.100 problem and it involves your bank or some money, phone 0:15:20.100 --> 0:15:22.740 them straight away and explain what's happened. And actually when 0:15:22.740 --> 0:15:24.990 you are going to talk to them, make sure you 0:15:24.990 --> 0:15:27.059 tell them absolutely everything as to what's happened. Don't be 0:15:27.059 --> 0:15:29.280 worried about not telling them that you did something or 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:30.959 you think what you've done is going to cause a 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:32.670 problem in the future. If you tell them absolutely everything 0:15:32.670 --> 0:15:35.279 that's happened, it'll be managed. That means that you can 0:15:35.279 --> 0:15:37.950 limit whatever ... They'll give you material, they'll tell you what's 0:15:37.950 --> 0:15:40.320 happened, they'll explain what's gone on. Because most people that 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:43.770 have ended up in a situation where a criminal's manipulating 0:15:43.770 --> 0:15:45.479 them, or whatever the word we want to use is, they 0:15:45.929 --> 0:15:48.690 don't really understand what's going on. They're being pushed through on 0:15:48.690 --> 0:15:51.030 a journey and engineered by the fraudster. If you break 0:15:51.030 --> 0:15:52.949 that chain, speak to your bank and they'll tell you 0:15:52.949 --> 0:15:55.380 what's going on. So, that's probably the best three bits of advice. 0:15:55.530 --> 0:15:57.510 Amazing. Thank you so much, Chris. I like the fact that you 0:15:57.510 --> 0:16:00.240 ended on just being transparent. I think sometimes if you have 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:01.890 gone through that and you have done something, you can 0:16:01.890 --> 0:16:02.400 feel silly- 0:16:02.000 --> 0:16:04.830 (inaudible) And that's for those. Any of those fraud 0:16:04.830 --> 0:16:08.130 types, or any (inaudible) impersonator scam or the purchase 0:16:08.130 --> 0:16:11.400 or especially in the money mule situation, if people are 0:16:12.180 --> 0:16:14.400 clearer about telling you what's gone on, it can be 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:15.210