WEBVTT - LOVE AND CHANGING RELATIONSHIPS IN LATER LIFE 0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:07.820 Hello. I'm Angellica Bell and welcome to Rewirement from Legal & 0:00:08.049 --> 0:00:10.950 General. The podcast where I'm talking to the experts about 0:00:10.950 --> 0:00:13.929 how to make later life the best time of life. 0:00:14.500 --> 0:00:17.759 I'm hearing from inspiring people who are making retirement work 0:00:17.759 --> 0:00:21.900 for them. Your dreams are as individual as you are, 0:00:22.060 --> 0:00:24.290 so I'm on a mission to help you make them 0:00:24.290 --> 0:00:28.710 happen. This time we're tackling the topic of relationships in 0:00:28.710 --> 0:00:33.159 later life. For many, age and experience might bring relationship 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:37.889 breakdowns and new partnerships. Maybe you've been divorced or bereaved 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.069 and have found love again? Perhaps you and your new partner 0:00:41.070 --> 0:00:45.199 have children from your previous relationships? If so, the complexities 0:00:45.199 --> 0:00:50.520 of navigating extended families can bring plenty of questions. I'm going 0:00:50.669 --> 0:00:53.030 to be finding out how you can set yourself up 0:00:53.030 --> 0:00:55.880 for success if you're bringing a new person into your 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.819 family. And if you're already happily settled, I'll be joined 0:00:59.820 --> 0:01:04.009 by psychologist, Jo Hemmings, and Legal & General's Sara MacLeish, to 0:01:04.009 --> 0:01:07.420 talk about how you can communicate your financial plans effectively 0:01:07.420 --> 0:01:11.160 with each other and with your families. But first let's 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:15.660 hear from Jane. Jane found love in retirement, 35 years 0:01:15.660 --> 0:01:18.380 after she and her old flame had first met and 0:01:18.380 --> 0:01:23.550 gone their separate ways. Jane was living with her third 0:01:23.550 --> 0:01:26.850 husband in Egypt when she and John reconnected as friends. 0:01:27.490 --> 0:01:30.779 When that relationship ended, Jane was in a bad place, 0:01:31.110 --> 0:01:33.069 but her pen pal offered her hope. 0:01:33.149 --> 0:01:37.500 I'd first met him in the City of London. We 0:01:37.500 --> 0:01:42.179 sort of had a very brief, but very happy relationship, 0:01:42.179 --> 0:01:46.440 but then we'd split up and lost touch with each 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.610 other. And I thought about him no end. I thought, " 0:01:49.610 --> 0:01:53.499 I wonder what he's doing? I wonder where he is? 0:01:53.500 --> 0:01:56.510 What is happening?" So I got a couple of old 0:01:56.510 --> 0:02:01.460 pictures and as much detail as I could remember, and 0:02:01.460 --> 0:02:05.800 I put a blog post up. And four years later, 0:02:06.330 --> 0:02:11.500 he saw it and sent me an email, and we 0:02:11.500 --> 0:02:15.510 emailed backwards and forwards 400 emails. 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:20.389 Oh, my, goodness. So Jane, when you left Egypt, would 0:02:20.389 --> 0:02:23.010 you say that you left your financial security behind? 0:02:23.090 --> 0:02:24.210 Yes, totally. 0:02:24.470 --> 0:02:25.790 I mean, that's quite scary. 0:02:25.810 --> 0:02:32.030 Yes, it is. Unfortunately my relationship had come to an 0:02:32.030 --> 0:02:36.260 end and the only way I could get out was with 0:02:36.260 --> 0:02:43.329 two suitcases and me crochet hooks. That's how I landed 0:02:43.329 --> 0:02:45.989 on my daughter's doorstep with me two suitcases. 0:02:47.139 --> 0:02:49.929 And was John in the picture at this point, was 0:02:49.929 --> 0:02:50.820 he a catalyst? 0:02:50.829 --> 0:02:51.249 No, no. 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:51.889 Okay. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.309 Well, he was a catalyst because I'd had the email. 0:02:55.310 --> 0:03:00.419 So he sent me a bit of music, Foo Fighters. 0:03:00.810 --> 0:03:05.639 Is someone getting the Best of You? And I thought, " 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:10.230 Wow, nobody's getting the best of me, I've got so 0:03:10.230 --> 0:03:14.169 much to offer and I'm just dying here." 0:03:14.399 --> 0:03:16.169 And that takes a lot of courage to walk away 0:03:16.169 --> 0:03:18.389 from something. Stability- 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.720 Well, I think a lot of ladies have had to 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:24.070 do it and it's not easy. It's not easy at 0:03:24.070 --> 0:03:27.369 all. But once I'd been back in this country a 0:03:27.370 --> 0:03:32.079 few months, I was so much happier. I can't believe 0:03:32.079 --> 0:03:37.170 that I can be lucky enough at 66 to find 0:03:37.170 --> 0:03:41.700 romance again. Actually, it was quite good going back to 0:03:41.700 --> 0:03:46.250 someone I'd known so many years before when I was 0:03:46.250 --> 0:03:51.560 sort of young and believed in fairy stories. 0:03:53.660 --> 0:03:57.320 Well, you're with John now. You've been married before. Were 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.280 you wary about starting something new? 0:04:00.950 --> 0:04:06.279 Oh, very wary. It started off with just being friends 0:04:06.280 --> 0:04:09.809 and going for a drink together and stuff like that. 0:04:10.330 --> 0:04:16.630 But after we reconnected again, it probably wasn't until lockdown 0:04:17.180 --> 0:04:24.929 that we started getting romantic. We took it very slowly 0:04:25.250 --> 0:04:31.140 because we wanted to find each other's background and everything. 0:04:31.140 --> 0:04:36.729 Because it's 35 years, a lot had happened. When I 0:04:36.729 --> 0:04:41.180 came back to this country, I was connecting with a lot of people 0:04:41.180 --> 0:04:45.460 that I knew in the 80s. It was just lovely 0:04:45.460 --> 0:04:49.300 to be able to share all those memories again and 0:04:49.370 --> 0:04:54.360 have a bit of a laugh about our younger selves. 0:04:55.330 --> 0:04:58.500 Yeah. So you have that something in common that you 0:04:58.500 --> 0:05:01.379 can build upon. And so it can be just friends and 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:04.370 you're saying, " Who knows, it might turn into something more 0:05:04.370 --> 0:05:06.960 romantic?" But at the end of the day, it's about 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.700 building that best friend foundation first? 0:05:10.089 --> 0:05:14.839 Yeah, I think so. I think nearly all relationship should 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:19.770 start from a basis of friendship because otherwise what are you 0:05:19.820 --> 0:05:22.400 going to do when you're having an argument? 0:05:23.750 --> 0:05:26.320 Was it more financial reasons why you decided to move 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:26.909 in together? 0:05:27.130 --> 0:05:31.500 Yeah. Do you know the TV program Golden Girls? 0:05:31.580 --> 0:05:32.190 Oh yes. 0:05:32.229 --> 0:05:35.900 We thought we would be a bit like Golden Girls, 0:05:36.370 --> 0:05:41.760 sharing a house together. He can kill spiders and I 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:51.250 can sew tapestry cushions. It's just nice to have someone, 0:05:51.409 --> 0:05:55.969 especially with lockdown, to have somebody in the house to 0:05:55.969 --> 0:05:59.129 talk to. And one of the things we love doing 0:05:59.130 --> 0:06:04.729 is on a Monday night it's University Challenge, Mastermind and 0:06:04.729 --> 0:06:08.820 Only Connect. And we have a little friendly competition about 0:06:08.820 --> 0:06:11.100 who can get the most answers right. 0:06:11.909 --> 0:06:15.010 I know there's some people who are very comfortable being 0:06:15.010 --> 0:06:17.930 single in retirement. And that's fantastic, but like you say, 0:06:17.930 --> 0:06:21.719 there are some people who need that companionship and want 0:06:21.719 --> 0:06:25.179 to share their retirement with someone, share those memories. Which 0:06:25.180 --> 0:06:28.569 is totally understandable. So what advice would you give to 0:06:28.570 --> 0:06:32.890 someone who is meeting their new partner's family? Because both 0:06:32.890 --> 0:06:36.349 you and John have had your own lives, experienced different 0:06:36.380 --> 0:06:38.749 things, and all of a sudden you're coming together at a 0:06:38.750 --> 0:06:42.619 time where it's about you. How did they react and 0:06:42.620 --> 0:06:44.589 how did you navigate that situation? 0:06:45.029 --> 0:06:50.299 My daughter, hadn't been very keen on my previous husband. 0:06:50.650 --> 0:06:54.029 And so she was quite glad that I had got 0:06:54.029 --> 0:06:58.440 involved with somebody that she could respect. He's great with 0:06:58.440 --> 0:07:03.430 her children, my grandchildren. It's really cute to see him 0:07:03.430 --> 0:07:08.309 sort of cuddling the baby and being all goo goo gaga. 0:07:09.550 --> 0:07:12.619 And then how do you sort out your finances together? 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.610 Oh, we don't. We don't. We keep them totally separate. 0:07:17.090 --> 0:07:19.890 And although you and John keep your finances separate, you're 0:07:19.890 --> 0:07:23.790 with somebody who's got their pension sorted and their finances 0:07:23.790 --> 0:07:27.230 sorted, so you're both feeling confident for the future? 0:07:27.550 --> 0:07:30.820 Yeah. Being able to split the bills and split the 0:07:30.820 --> 0:07:34.619 rent and stuff like that means you've got more disposable 0:07:34.820 --> 0:07:41.160 income. I wish I had ploughed more into my private 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:45.930 pension back in the day. I really do. I've got 0:07:45.930 --> 0:07:50.720 a minuscule private pension, and it would be lovely to 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:55.739 have a little bit more. But I am totally thankful 0:07:55.739 --> 0:07:59.020 that I paid all my stamps and I've got the 0:07:59.020 --> 0:08:04.530 full state pension. So that's sort of something that not everybody 0:08:04.530 --> 0:08:10.199 has, especially females. So I think women should check their 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.920 national insurance records. You can do it all online. That's 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:15.810 what I did. 0:08:16.150 --> 0:08:19.610 So what about your plan them for the future for care, 0:08:19.610 --> 0:08:22.520 if you need support on your health, how are you 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:24.250 going to deal with that together? 0:08:24.850 --> 0:08:29.350 Well, I think we're taking it one day at a time. You 0:08:29.350 --> 0:08:32.050 just don't know what's going to happen. I mean, when 0:08:32.170 --> 0:08:35.709 I first came back in the country, I was 17 0:08:35.709 --> 0:08:41.819 and a half stone and diabetic. Now, John knew about 0:08:41.819 --> 0:08:46.179 reversing your diabetes and gave me advice about that. And I 0:08:46.179 --> 0:08:51.990 researched it and spoke to my doctor, lost four stone. 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:58.980 Now I'm on no insulin, no diabetes medication, nothing. But 0:08:58.980 --> 0:09:03.249 who knows what's going to happen? You could suddenly get 0:09:03.319 --> 0:09:07.379 dementia or something like that. I think you just have 0:09:07.380 --> 0:09:12.550 to seize the day and live life for this day 0:09:12.890 --> 0:09:14.470 and have a good time. 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:17.650 You give a lot of hope for people who are 0:09:17.650 --> 0:09:20.740 still looking for love in their latter years, which is lovely. 0:09:21.660 --> 0:09:25.439 You never know what's going to happen. I've constantly been 0:09:25.439 --> 0:09:29.750 surprised all through my life. And I never would have 0:09:29.750 --> 0:09:36.709 expected this to happen. Yeah, It's a bit special. 0:09:41.949 --> 0:09:44.530 It just goes to show that you can't predict the 0:09:44.530 --> 0:09:47.900 path that life will take. But being open to opportunities 0:09:47.900 --> 0:09:51.239 and reconnecting with old friends can lead to wonderful things. 0:09:51.850 --> 0:09:54.089 It can be hard to make big changes when you're 0:09:54.089 --> 0:09:57.439 settled in life. Jane's bravery has truly paid off and 0:09:57.439 --> 0:10:01.339 I love her adventurous spirit. She's now considering a PhD 0:10:01.339 --> 0:10:04.040 with the little extra cash she's saving each month by 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:08.150 living with her long, lost love. Another side to developing 0:10:08.150 --> 0:10:10.900 new relationships later in life can be the impact this 0:10:10.900 --> 0:10:14.839 has upon your lifestyle and relationships with others. If you've 0:10:14.839 --> 0:10:18.380 got children and your own assets, it can feel complicated 0:10:18.380 --> 0:10:21.660 to broach the subject with your families. And yet there 0:10:21.660 --> 0:10:25.100 are hundreds of thousands of blended families and step- families 0:10:25.100 --> 0:10:28.510 in the UK. What's more, even when your children have 0:10:28.510 --> 0:10:31.400 grown up and left home, you may re- partner after 0:10:31.410 --> 0:10:37.449 a divorce or the death of a partner. So what 0:10:37.449 --> 0:10:40.439 happens when you've both got big families and maybe even 0:10:40.439 --> 0:10:45.050 grandchildren? Christine is a psychotherapist who's continuing to work in 0:10:45.050 --> 0:10:48.069 her retirement. She's just relocated to the coast to be 0:10:48.069 --> 0:10:50.510 near her children. She's told me how she and her 0:10:50.510 --> 0:10:53.559 husband navigated marriage with seven children between them. 0:10:54.069 --> 0:10:56.410 I'd been married for 21 years to my first husband. I 0:10:56.410 --> 0:10:59.290 had five children. At the point where we divorced three 0:10:59.290 --> 0:11:03.929 of them were in their early 20s. So when I moved, 0:11:03.929 --> 0:11:08.010 I moved with my two youngest children who are seven 0:11:08.010 --> 0:11:08.370 and nine. 0:11:08.790 --> 0:11:10.000 That's quite a big gap, wasn't it? 0:11:10.110 --> 0:11:12.379 Yeah. It was a big gap. I had three and then I had a big 0:11:12.380 --> 0:11:14.959 gap and then I had two more. So when I 0:11:14.959 --> 0:11:17.499 moved... Well, I was on my own with my two 0:11:17.500 --> 0:11:21.380 youngest kids. And then when I remarried, my husband had 0:11:21.380 --> 0:11:24.420 two children who were also in their early 20s. So 0:11:24.449 --> 0:11:28.689 similar ages to my other three kids. So our blended 0:11:28.689 --> 0:11:31.469 family, if you like, was me and my new husband 0:11:31.469 --> 0:11:35.170 and my two youngest kids with the others kind of 0:11:35.170 --> 0:11:40.609 gradually, very gradually visiting and just adjusting to this whole 0:11:41.490 --> 0:11:46.380 change of situation. I mean it's never easy. What children 0:11:46.380 --> 0:11:49.029 really want is for their parents to stay together, hopefully. 0:11:49.209 --> 0:11:53.109 I mean, we understand that really. And it was difficult 0:11:53.110 --> 0:11:54.790 for them I think, But because they were all in 0:11:54.790 --> 0:11:57.239 there in their early 20s, they got on like a 0:11:57.240 --> 0:11:59.020 house on fire after a while. 0:11:59.900 --> 0:12:06.230 Your family setup changed quite dramatically with the amount of children that you had in the home and 0:12:06.230 --> 0:12:09.469 stuff. Tell me how you adapted to that and how 0:12:09.829 --> 0:12:12.089 obviously when you meet someone new, when you've lived your 0:12:12.089 --> 0:12:17.109 life, how their financial outlook can impact you? 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:21.050 I suppose, financially, that's an interesting one. Because it took 0:12:21.050 --> 0:12:24.680 two years for my divorce to go through, quite complicated. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:28.640 I didn't really have any money of my own at 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:30.970 that point. Well, I mean a bit, but not much. 0:12:31.390 --> 0:12:34.509 And I remember I borrowed money off my dad just 0:12:34.510 --> 0:12:38.860 after we separated. My husband wasn't in much of a 0:12:38.860 --> 0:12:41.380 better position than me. He'd been through a divorce and 0:12:41.380 --> 0:12:45.170 he took nothing from the divorce. And I think at 0:12:45.170 --> 0:12:49.429 that point there was quite a lot of fun. It 0:12:49.429 --> 0:12:52.740 was all new. It was new relationship, new circumstances, and 0:12:52.770 --> 0:12:54.490 there was a lot of really good times. And I 0:12:54.490 --> 0:12:59.210 think in those kinds of times, I wasn't too financially 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:05.260 aware of maybe planning for my future. I was 40, 41 0:13:05.260 --> 0:13:07.869 I wasn't really that bothered about that. I paid my 0:13:07.910 --> 0:13:11.620 pension every month, and I think I just trusted that 0:13:11.620 --> 0:13:12.870 things would be fine. 0:13:13.079 --> 0:13:15.709 Was Alex like that? Was he quite laid back about 0:13:15.709 --> 0:13:19.770 money or have you both had to change and adjust? 0:13:19.990 --> 0:13:21.920 I probably didn't know this at the time we got 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:24.300 together. If I had to describe us now, I'd say 0:13:24.300 --> 0:13:26.949 that I was the one that was more savvy with 0:13:26.949 --> 0:13:32.020 money and more careful. Alex has, and he still has 0:13:32.020 --> 0:13:34.570 this attitude a little bit, even though he's 74 now. 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:38.110 He has this attitude of, " Oh, it's just money. It's 0:13:38.110 --> 0:13:41.850 all right." He has a much more laid back attitude than 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:45.359 I do. I don't think it caused much conflict. It 0:13:45.530 --> 0:13:51.699 has at times. Mainly my frustration. Maybe because I'm a 0:13:51.699 --> 0:13:55.630 bit jealous because I really wish that I could be 0:13:55.630 --> 0:13:58.219 like that sometimes. And I was a bit like that 0:13:58.219 --> 0:14:03.790 before my first divorce, but a difficult divorce and the 0:14:03.790 --> 0:14:08.470 financial outcomes of that, have changed my view of money. 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.569 And when there was just me and the two younger 0:14:11.569 --> 0:14:14.969 kids, I felt that I just had to be very 0:14:14.969 --> 0:14:18.010 sensible. I changed really. 0:14:18.300 --> 0:14:20.000 Well with that in mind and you saying that, do 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.250 you keep your finances separate? 0:14:22.510 --> 0:14:26.350 We do. Yeah, we always have. For me, I think 0:14:26.350 --> 0:14:29.639 just because of everything that happened through that first divorce, 0:14:30.100 --> 0:14:33.010 I was a little bit anxious about it and I 0:14:33.010 --> 0:14:35.320 just needed to know that I was in control of 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.330 my finances. And so it was like that. And it 0:14:39.330 --> 0:14:42.150 just didn't change. I'm just more comfortable with it. Having 0:14:42.150 --> 0:14:48.090 said that, we have discussions about finances. We know what 0:14:48.090 --> 0:14:49.650 we're going to spend, where the money's going to come 0:14:49.650 --> 0:14:50.780 from and how are we going to do it. We 0:14:50.780 --> 0:14:53.910 discuss that, but we still have things separate. 0:14:54.220 --> 0:14:58.050 And I can see why, because you've both got separate 0:14:58.280 --> 0:14:59.201 sets of children as well. 0:14:59.201 --> 0:14:59.480 Yes. 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.210 So you're probably wanting to protect them as well and make 0:15:03.420 --> 0:15:05.130 sure that they're set up. 0:15:05.870 --> 0:15:09.630 My side of the financial situation is more complex than 0:15:09.630 --> 0:15:13.430 Alex's. His is quite straightforward. He has his two children. 0:15:13.430 --> 0:15:15.680 We have this house between us that we live in 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:21.450 now. And his ex- wife, she's still alive so she 0:15:21.450 --> 0:15:24.810 has her own house. So they're inheritance line is quite 0:15:24.810 --> 0:15:28.870 straightforward. Mine is more complicated. I've got a trust fund 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:34.110 from my dad who died 20 years ago. And the 0:15:34.110 --> 0:15:37.180 person that my dad lived with, when she dies, then 0:15:37.180 --> 0:15:40.830 the trust fund will be released between me and her 0:15:40.830 --> 0:15:44.619 son. Basically it's the house that she lives in. So that's 0:15:44.620 --> 0:15:48.840 quite complicated. And if I don't get that before I 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:51.690 die, then that needs to be passed straight down to 0:15:51.690 --> 0:15:54.010 my children. So there's all those arrangements. 0:15:54.130 --> 0:15:58.259 I see where you're coming from. And you want in 0:15:58.260 --> 0:16:01.540 a way, in such a complex situation, some clarity. And 0:16:01.540 --> 0:16:04.879 then as a psychotherapist as well, I'm thinking you must 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:09.020 have your own insights in to how people behave with 0:16:09.020 --> 0:16:13.160 money, how people perceive things, inheritance and stuff? 0:16:13.310 --> 0:16:16.609 I can work with clients as a counselor and psychotherapist. 0:16:16.609 --> 0:16:20.200 And I can really support people and keep communications going 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:22.410 in terms of any subject that they want to bring 0:16:22.410 --> 0:16:25.870 into the session in a balanced way. But when it 0:16:25.870 --> 0:16:29.180 comes to your own family and your own children, then 0:16:30.300 --> 0:16:33.830 a lot of that goes out the window. I have 0:16:33.830 --> 0:16:38.340 five children who are very different personalities, no shrinking violets 0:16:38.340 --> 0:16:42.220 with my children. Everything's always been on the table for 0:16:42.220 --> 0:16:45.070 discussion with my kids. I've always been like that with 0:16:45.070 --> 0:16:48.100 them, from when they were very young. That, I think it's 0:16:48.100 --> 0:16:52.780 a very positive thing. But it can be quite challenging 0:16:52.780 --> 0:16:56.009 and difficult. If you get five of them together and 0:16:56.010 --> 0:16:59.410 they're quite, can be quite opinionated then that's not an 0:16:59.410 --> 0:17:02.560 easy thing to do. I have different relationships with all 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.230 of them. I would open those conversations at a completely 0:17:05.230 --> 0:17:07.720 different place with each of them. Which you might would 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:10.470 do with clients as you get to know them. So 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.689 there's that similarity. Money is a very difficult thing to 0:17:14.690 --> 0:17:17.840 talk about. What I might be doing with my money 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:21.240 or what my views might be in terms of how 0:17:21.389 --> 0:17:25.489 I'm planning for them, might not be what they think 0:17:25.490 --> 0:17:28.760 is right. And I know that my kids often, so 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:30.560 you don't want to do that, you want to do 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.219 this. And I have to say, " Well, actually I don't 0:17:32.270 --> 0:17:33.800 want to do that. I know what I want to 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:37.510 do." And it's quite hard that. And the more kids you 0:17:37.510 --> 0:17:40.680 got, I think the harder it gets. You've got to make 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.899 the space for all those different conversations. 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:45.310 Well, at least you're aware of it and you've got 0:17:45.310 --> 0:17:48.820 a plan. But what advice would you give to anyone 0:17:48.820 --> 0:17:50.710 who is looking ahead to retirement, but wants to make 0:17:50.710 --> 0:17:55.179 sure they've communicated with their partner and families about their 0:17:55.180 --> 0:17:56.169 wishes and plans? 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:01.919 To keep lines of communication open. In terms of the 0:18:01.919 --> 0:18:05.949 earlier you're thinking about things, if it feels right, then 0:18:05.950 --> 0:18:10.980 to say something. Whatever it might be to just open 0:18:10.980 --> 0:18:13.320 those lines of communication. The hardest thing in the world 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:15.790 I think, is to go and talk to somebody about a 0:18:15.830 --> 0:18:20.510 really difficult subject, but not have the smaller conversations beforehand, 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:25.050 the more generalized conversations and it comes out the blue. 0:18:25.550 --> 0:18:28.750 And I mean, I think that is actually probably good 0:18:28.750 --> 0:18:33.189 advice for a lot of difficult situations. If you're planning 0:18:33.190 --> 0:18:36.750 it and people start to know what you're planning as 0:18:36.750 --> 0:18:39.580 you go forward it's an extension of that conversation rather 0:18:39.580 --> 0:18:42.510 than just another thing plucked out of ether and coming 0:18:42.510 --> 0:18:44.869 as a shock. And I guess the other thing is 0:18:44.869 --> 0:18:48.359 that's really important is to listen because whatever I'm planning 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.240 affects all my children. And although I'm quite secure in 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.179 my sense of doing what I think is right, and 0:18:56.179 --> 0:18:59.030 quite committed to that, they still have an opinion. All 0:18:59.030 --> 0:19:00.980 your family have an opinion. And I think it's really 0:19:00.980 --> 0:19:03.840 important to listen to it. And even if you don't agree 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.250 with it, to kind of acknowledge it and validate it 0:19:06.889 --> 0:19:09.109 because people are coming from different places. 0:19:11.929 --> 0:19:15.720 Wise, wise words from Christine. It sounds like she's communicating 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.590 and having those essential conversations with her children, but it's 0:19:19.590 --> 0:19:22.359 not always easy to talk about money. Everyone has a 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:27.259 different situation and individual concerns. It's important to communicate with 0:19:27.260 --> 0:19:30.810 your partner about your financial situation in later life, but 0:19:30.810 --> 0:19:34.139 also vital to make sure everyone who might be affected 0:19:34.139 --> 0:19:37.460 by the change is on the same page. So how 0:19:37.460 --> 0:19:41.080 do you do that sensitively? I'm joined by psychologist, Jo 0:19:41.080 --> 0:19:46.770 Hemmings and Legal & General's Sara MacLeish to find out. Well, 0:19:46.770 --> 0:19:50.050 talking about love and relationships in retirement fills my heart 0:19:50.100 --> 0:19:53.590 with joy. Jo, let's start by talking about who can 0:19:53.590 --> 0:19:55.750 be affected if you find love in later life. 0:19:56.109 --> 0:19:59.619 Yeah. It can be difficult. I think sometimes your friends 0:19:59.619 --> 0:20:02.820 or close family, they're not aware that you're even looking for love. 0:20:02.820 --> 0:20:05.490 I think that's one of the issues. So when you find 0:20:05.490 --> 0:20:08.550 somebody that comes as a real shock, because they thought you 0:20:08.550 --> 0:20:11.570 were perfectly settled and happy as you were. Then when you 0:20:11.570 --> 0:20:15.020 meet someone who's significant, I think if you're dating a 0:20:15.020 --> 0:20:18.070 bit, which you can do when you get older, but haven't found anybody 0:20:18.070 --> 0:20:22.080 of major importance, you don't need to do anything about 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:24.820 it at this point. But when you find someone who does 0:20:25.139 --> 0:20:29.050 feel like they'll have some significance in your life, then 0:20:29.050 --> 0:20:31.480 I think definitely introduce them in that way. I mean, 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.330 be honest about it. I do know, I have heard of people saying, " 0:20:34.609 --> 0:20:39.649 Oh, this is my friend." That's all right when you've 0:20:39.649 --> 0:20:43.629 got little kids, but I mean, most older members of 0:20:43.740 --> 0:20:49.250 your family will probably recognize that they're probably not quite 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:50.240 just a friend. 0:20:50.970 --> 0:20:54.159 Well, how would you introduce a new person or people into your family? 0:20:54.159 --> 0:20:56.740 I think I'd tell them. " I met someone. I've met 0:20:56.740 --> 0:20:59.550 someone who I feel I really connect with, get on 0:20:59.550 --> 0:21:02.359 well with. We've been out going out for a while. We've 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.450 got a lot in common. He makes me feel good about 0:21:05.450 --> 0:21:10.090 myself." Just those kinds of explaining. You don't have to 0:21:10.090 --> 0:21:12.609 justify yourself, but you do I think to an extent, 0:21:12.659 --> 0:21:15.649 I have to explain the importance of it, why it 0:21:15.649 --> 0:21:18.409 matters to you and how you feel about it. And 0:21:18.580 --> 0:21:21.729 just be very upfront rather than trying to dress it 0:21:21.730 --> 0:21:25.440 up as something isn't because has every chance of getting 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:29.109 yourself into sort of tangles that are quite hard to 0:21:29.260 --> 0:21:29.311 get out of. 0:21:29.311 --> 0:21:32.639 No. Exactly. And I suppose as well, when people are older, 0:21:32.639 --> 0:21:35.369 they've got maybe older children, people who've known them their 0:21:35.369 --> 0:21:38.189 whole lives and then to bring somebody else in can 0:21:38.190 --> 0:21:41.060 be unsettling for other people. So maybe just being honest and 0:21:41.060 --> 0:21:43.240 straight is the best thing. 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:47.129 I think so, and I think do it gently if 0:21:47.129 --> 0:21:49.619 you need to. Maybe do it out of the home. 0:21:49.619 --> 0:21:52.340 So you have a meal out somewhere. You just want 0:21:52.340 --> 0:21:55.629 it to be as relaxed an experience as you can. 0:21:55.629 --> 0:22:00.700 And obviously you want them to like them, but try 0:22:00.700 --> 0:22:03.119 and let it be natural rather than talking for them. 0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:04.699 I think that's what some people do. 0:22:05.159 --> 0:22:08.470 Well, Sara, in terms of the financial side, divorces can 0:22:08.470 --> 0:22:11.080 have an impact on your situation in later life. What's 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.499 your advice for revisiting retirement finances after a divorce? 0:22:16.530 --> 0:22:19.399 Yeah, well, I mean, as we've heard from both Christine 0:22:19.399 --> 0:22:23.919 and Jane, divorce and separation is a really very costly 0:22:23.919 --> 0:22:27.439 and complicated process and it's very rare that people come 0:22:27.439 --> 0:22:31.310 out of a divorce or a separation better off. In fact, 0:22:31.310 --> 0:22:34.629 most come away facing retirement with far less income to 0:22:34.629 --> 0:22:38.639 live off. Especially women who typically have significantly lower pension 0:22:38.639 --> 0:22:42.680 provision than men. We also know that this is becoming a 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:45.869 bigger and bigger issue in middle- age and later life. 0:22:46.439 --> 0:22:49.480 So the statistics are showing us now that one in 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:53.020 four divorces takes place over the age of 50 in 0:22:53.020 --> 0:22:57.149 the UK today. I mean the critical thing here, Angellica, 0:22:57.149 --> 0:23:00.689 is to get advice and to understand where you stand 0:23:00.689 --> 0:23:03.820 in these matters. We conducted some research recently at L& 0:23:03.820 --> 0:23:07.619 G and were staggered to see that only 3% of people 0:23:07.619 --> 0:23:10.850 going through a divorce take financial advice, only 3%. 0:23:10.859 --> 0:23:12.609 No, only 3%? 0:23:12.609 --> 0:23:16.570 Yeah. Now, if you can afford financial advice, if you 0:23:16.570 --> 0:23:19.590 can access a financial advisor, then obviously that's going to 0:23:19.720 --> 0:23:23.459 be incredibly valuable in making sure that you've received expert 0:23:23.460 --> 0:23:27.689 advice, professional advice, and that it's tailored to your circumstances. 0:23:27.689 --> 0:23:30.429 But if that option is not available to you, then 0:23:30.429 --> 0:23:33.560 I still would advise people to make sure that they're 0:23:33.560 --> 0:23:37.689 looking for those online resources, those telephone resources that are 0:23:37.689 --> 0:23:41.130 free of charge to everyone. Things like PensionWise can be really, 0:23:41.520 --> 0:23:45.340 really powerful in helping you understand your retirement options. 0:23:46.149 --> 0:23:48.540 Well, like you said, Christine has a plan for how 0:23:48.540 --> 0:23:51.270 she'd like her children to inherit her money and is 0:23:51.270 --> 0:23:54.919 already having those sort of conversations, very upfront, open, and 0:23:54.919 --> 0:23:58.100 I think that's really refreshing. But what matters should you 0:23:58.100 --> 0:24:00.649 get clear on before sharing that information? 0:24:01.230 --> 0:24:04.830 Think as Christine says, having those small conversations early is 0:24:04.830 --> 0:24:08.780 fantastic advice rather than having a big conversation and potentially 0:24:08.780 --> 0:24:11.759