Speaker 1: This series is brought to you by L& G, helping
Speaker 1: you build a future that's a little bit richer.
Iona Bain: Hello and welcome to A Little Bit Richer with me,
Iona Bain: Iona Bain, brought to you by Legal & General. We all
Iona Bain: know how important saving money is. It gets us out
Iona Bain: of living paycheck to paycheck. It sets good habits and
Iona Bain: it protects our future. But it's often easier said than
Iona Bain: done. And as we've come to the last payday before
Iona Bain: Christmas, maybe you're fretting about all those festive outgoings and
Iona Bain: you're looking ahead to January and maybe some New Year's
Iona Bain: resolutions. Well, you might be wondering how can I save
Iona Bain: when I'm spending so much, or I know I should
Iona Bain: be saving, but what are some hacks to get started?
Iona Bain: So today I'm joined by friend of the show Laura
Iona Bain: Ann Moore. Laura is a certified financial coach, financial wellbeing
Iona Bain: speaker and host of the Mind Money Soul podcast. She's
Iona Bain: on a mission to get you financially confident and take
Iona Bain: control of your future. And having saved over £ 40,000 by
Iona Bain: the time she was 27, she is the perfect person
Iona Bain: for us to chat to today about staying motivated with
Iona Bain: saving. Welcome, Laura.
Laura Ann Moore: Thank you for having me back.
Iona Bain: Well, it's lovely for you to come back. So how
Iona Bain: can people make saving feel more real and achievable in
Iona Bain: their day- to- day lives rather than it feeling like
Iona Bain: a long- term distant goal? What are some good habits
Iona Bain: for long- term saving?
Laura Ann Moore: I think the key thing is to think about sustainability
Laura Ann Moore: and not be super extreme about it. I always talk
Laura Ann Moore: about this link between money and fitness. So if we
Laura Ann Moore: think about it, you want to get your summer bod
Laura Ann Moore: for next year. If you go full swing and you go, "
Laura Ann Moore: Right, I'm cutting out carbs, I'm cutting out sugar, I'm
Laura Ann Moore: cutting out alcohol and all the fun stuff," that works
Laura Ann Moore: for what, five, 10 days? And at some point that
Laura Ann Moore: restrictiveness makes you want to go the other way. It
Laura Ann Moore: makes you want to binge on all of those things. It
Laura Ann Moore: wants you to just throw the baby out with the
Laura Ann Moore: bath water and just go, "Ah," go crazy. So applying an attitude
Laura Ann Moore: when it comes to fitness of the 80/ 20 rule. Most
Laura Ann Moore: of the time you eat well, you exercise well, and
Laura Ann Moore: then you have the little treats. It's the same with
Laura Ann Moore: saving, I think, is finding a way to be more
Laura Ann Moore: sustainable day- to- day, saving little and often. And I
Laura Ann Moore: think the reason why some people find that hard is
Laura Ann Moore: the mindset of it feeling boring. But it can be
Laura Ann Moore: boring sometimes, but you can gamify it obviously. And I
Laura Ann Moore: think that starting small and working towards a goal is
Laura Ann Moore: better than waiting for the right moment to hit. I
Laura Ann Moore: think sometimes we fall into a trap of being like, "
Laura Ann Moore: I don't really know what I want to save for,
Laura Ann Moore: I don't really have that big of a goal," but
Laura Ann Moore: you're never going to regret having money saved.
Iona Bain: Yeah. Do you find that people will often say to you, "
Iona Bain: Well, I'll save once I've achieved this or I've achieved
Iona Bain: that"? And what's your response to them?
Laura Ann Moore: Yeah, I think it's one of those things where you don't
Laura Ann Moore: have to be saving all of the time, but I think
Laura Ann Moore: you don't want to be in a position where you
Laura Ann Moore: look back and you're like, " I've lost out on all
Laura Ann Moore: that time when I could have been doing some of
Laura Ann Moore: the little things that would've added up." So it's more
Laura Ann Moore: a reframe in mindset towards what saving looks like for
Laura Ann Moore: you and how you can work it into your day- to-
Laura Ann Moore: day in a way that feels good and not miss out.
Iona Bain: Absolutely. So let's get into that. What does it take
Iona Bain: to create that mindset? Just talk us through how we
Iona Bain: can be more intentional with putting money away.
Laura Ann Moore: So I think it's so easy to fall into a
Laura Ann Moore: mindset of saying things like, " I'm a spender, I'm not
Laura Ann Moore: a saver." Even if that is objectively true because you
Laura Ann Moore: have been spending more than you've been saving, that phrase,
Laura Ann Moore: the way that you speak about yourself, the way that
Laura Ann Moore: you speak about your money has a massive impact on
Laura Ann Moore: how you behave.
Iona Bain: Yeah.
Laura Ann Moore: So first off, just noticing, like what are the things
Laura Ann Moore: that I say to my friends, to my partner, to
Laura Ann Moore: myself around my savings habits, and are they helping me
Laura Ann Moore: or are they hindering me? It requires a bit of
Laura Ann Moore: honesty I think, which can be hard. But just acknowledging,
Laura Ann Moore: okay, if I keep saying I'm a spender, guess what's
Laura Ann Moore: going to happen? I'm going to keep spending. So shifting
Laura Ann Moore: your language is a really great place to start because
Laura Ann Moore: that will help essentially train your brain that you are
Laura Ann Moore: capable of that thing. So for example, if you were
Laura Ann Moore: to save £ 5 a week, no, it's probably not the
Laura Ann Moore: amount of money that you're going to want to buy
Laura Ann Moore: a house very quickly, but it shows that you're building
Laura Ann Moore: the habit. It gives your brain evidence. And you can
Laura Ann Moore: say confidently, " I'm a saver." It builds the foundation for
Laura Ann Moore: you to use your words in a positive way. And
Laura Ann Moore: then the two kind of support each other. I think
Laura Ann Moore: that really helps for changing your mindset towards saving.
Iona Bain: And do you find that people will often adjust their
Iona Bain: spending once they get a pay rise, then they think, "
Iona Bain: Hey, I'm at that point where I'm earning decent money,
Iona Bain: therefore I'm going to enjoy myself"? How do you try
Iona Bain: to combat that and still have a little bit of
Iona Bain: a savings mindset going on there whilst still enjoying yourself?
Laura Ann Moore: I'm a big believer you can do both, but sometimes
Laura Ann Moore: the weight's going to be different. But lifestyle creep, it's
Laura Ann Moore: so easy. You end up spending on a slightly more
Laura Ann Moore: expensive bottle of water, then you go to a slightly
Laura Ann Moore: nicer restaurant, slightly nicer clothes. So it's when suddenly you've
Laura Ann Moore: got more income each month. But instead of being strategic
Laura Ann Moore: and saying, " Okay, a percentage of that will be saved
Laura Ann Moore: and invested and a percentage of that will be spent
Laura Ann Moore: and enjoyed." It's easy to fall into the habit of
Laura Ann Moore: just spending it because it's there. And that's why I
Laura Ann Moore: think having a budget and a spending plan is so
Laura Ann Moore: useful for your financial success because it allows you to
Laura Ann Moore: understand where that money is going. I always say it's okay
Laura Ann Moore: to treat yourself a bit, but make sure you just
Laura Ann Moore: give that extra money direction. Because so many people look
Laura Ann Moore: back over years and years of having pay rises and
Laura Ann Moore: they're like, " I don't really know what I've got to
Laura Ann Moore: show for it," because you just inflate your lifestyle to
Laura Ann Moore: meet it.
Iona Bain: And so you can see why people definitely get into
Iona Bain: that mindset, but then it must really, really affect their
Iona Bain: ability to save in the long run.
Laura Ann Moore: Yeah, definitely. Because not only are you getting used to
Laura Ann Moore: that nicer lifestyle, even if it's only the mini luxuries-
Iona Bain: They all add up. But most importantly, being conscious of
Iona Bain: where that extra money is going at. And also habits.
Iona Bain: I imagine that's a really important cornerstone of saving.
Laura Ann Moore: Yes. And I think the habit of saving is when
Laura Ann Moore: you get used to it and it's just a part of
Laura Ann Moore: your life and it becomes a non- negotiable, you're not
Laura Ann Moore: having to convince yourself to save or persuade yourself or
Laura Ann Moore: motivate, it's just part of it. I think there are
Laura Ann Moore: things that you can do, like automating your finances. So
Laura Ann Moore: the day that you get paid, having an automation, like
Laura Ann Moore: a direct debit or a standing order that moves money
Laura Ann Moore: into savings straight away can be great, because it removes
Laura Ann Moore: the emotion. But just really understanding what does that habit
Laura Ann Moore: look like for me. And I love habit stacking.
Iona Bain: So habit stacking is when you're just throwing all these
Iona Bain: different habits in together and that way you're killing lots
Iona Bain: of birds with one stone.
Laura Ann Moore: It's using your brain basically to trick yourself into knowing
Laura Ann Moore: what comes next and just doing it without needing to
Laura Ann Moore: use your willpower. For example, on payday, every time I
Laura Ann Moore: move money into my spending account, I also move money
Laura Ann Moore: into my savings. Or every time I spend on something,
Laura Ann Moore: I also move it into savings. And you stack it
Laura Ann Moore: onto another habit. It helps it not feel like a
Laura Ann Moore: drag, like, " Oh, I've still got to do this thing."
Laura Ann Moore: I learned about habits stacking from the James Clear book
Laura Ann Moore: Atomic Habits. He believes in marginal gains. So 1% better
Laura Ann Moore: every day compounds massively. The same can be applied to
Laura Ann Moore: money. But when you apply it to your habits, it
Laura Ann Moore: doesn't feel so overwhelming. If all you have to do
Laura Ann Moore: is have one new habit, do that for a couple
Laura Ann Moore: of weeks, then it's embedded, introduce a new one, and
Laura Ann Moore: it rolls on. And then it just becomes a part
Laura Ann Moore: of your lifestyle. You can do that with saving.
Iona Bain: Right. So rather than trying to do it all at
Iona Bain: once, you got to start slow and build it up over time.
Laura Ann Moore: Yeah. And meet yourself where you're at. So if you're
Laura Ann Moore: even struggling to budget right now or even have a
Laura Ann Moore: spending plan, start there. Don't think that you go there
Laura Ann Moore: and then next minute, no, you need to have £ 20,000 in saving.
Iona Bain: Because I'm a big fan of talking about saving as
Iona Bain: a way to give yourself options and freedom further down
Iona Bain: the line. And what you mentioned before about setting up
Iona Bain: a standing order to your savings account when you're paid,
Iona Bain: that's like paying your future self first. Is that something
Iona Bain: that you encourage people to think about?
Laura Ann Moore: When I talk about budgeting and having a spending plan
Laura Ann Moore: now, I talk about the three S's, which is money
Laura Ann Moore: for survival, so living cost, money for spending, which is
Laura Ann Moore: the fun stuff, and money for success. Savings falls into
Laura Ann Moore: success, because when I had the £ 15,000 when I was younger
Laura Ann Moore: and I ended up very last minute going traveling, that
Laura Ann Moore: was my moment of money gives you choice and freedom.
Laura Ann Moore: Had I not had that money, I couldn't have taken
Laura Ann Moore: that opportunity. And giving yourself those little moments to go,
Laura Ann Moore: oh, I see how money can be a tool, I
Laura Ann Moore: see how when I'm good with my money or I
Laura Ann Moore: build a good habit and I'm saving and I'm enjoying
Laura Ann Moore: the process, the consequence of that is also positive.
Iona Bain: It's self- care.
Laura Ann Moore: A hundred percent.
Iona Bain: So what are some fun ways to trick your brain
Iona Bain: into saving more?
Laura Ann Moore: There are three main ways, I think. So I'm not
Laura Ann Moore: a massive fan of no- spend months.
Iona Bain: Yeah, that feels very restrictive.
Laura Ann Moore: So restrictive. Where's the fun?
Iona Bain: No.
Laura Ann Moore: But no- spend zones would be, okay, where are my
Laura Ann Moore: biggest triggers with overspending? Where do I spend when I
Laura Ann Moore: look back and go, " Oh, really wish I hadn't done
Laura Ann Moore: that"? They're the places that you would put a bit
Laura Ann Moore: more of a rule around. For example, if your weakness
Laura Ann Moore: is after work, tired, can't be arsed to cook, you
Laura Ann Moore: know you're going to be getting a Deliveroo. But then
Laura Ann Moore: afterwards you're like, " Oh, I could have probably even made
Laura Ann Moore: that for half the price."
Iona Bain: Yeah, yeah.
Laura Ann Moore: So if you know that's your trigger, you would say, " Okay, I'm going
Laura Ann Moore: to maybe do no deliveries during the week." Or you
Laura Ann Moore: can step foot outside in London and before you know
Laura Ann Moore: it, you've spent £ 100. So maybe you say, " Monday, Tuesday,
Laura Ann Moore: Wednesday, I don't spend before 12 PM." Just zones of
Laura Ann Moore: the day of the week where you just make an
Laura Ann Moore: active choice to not spend as much, therefore allowing you
Laura Ann Moore: to save a bit more. So that'd be one. The
Laura Ann Moore: second one is what I like to call buy one, save one. So
Laura Ann Moore: if you are going to buy something and you have
Laura Ann Moore: to then say, " Okay, whatever I've spent on this item,
Laura Ann Moore: I will also put the same amount into savings." So
Laura Ann Moore: it kind of is like the concept of only buy
Laura Ann Moore: it if you can afford to buy it twice. And
Laura Ann Moore: I think that that creates awareness around how much you're
Laura Ann Moore: spending, if you can afford it, if it fits into
Laura Ann Moore: your budget right now. And it's not to say you
Laura Ann Moore: can't ever have that thing, it just brings awareness to
Laura Ann Moore: the moment. And then the third one is the three
Laura Ann Moore: week rule. So every time you go to spend money on
Laura Ann Moore: something that is a non- essential, it's something a bit
Laura Ann Moore: more fun, spontaneous, maybe a bit more luxurious, you write
Laura Ann Moore: it down in the notes in your phone, what it is,
Laura Ann Moore: how much it was. You could even add in the
Laura Ann Moore: emotion that you were feeling, if you want. Make it a bit like a diary.
Laura Ann Moore: And then after the first three weeks of the month,
Laura Ann Moore: you wait till the last week, and you go back
Laura Ann Moore: over that list. First off, what actually do I still
Laura Ann Moore: want? A lot of them you'll be like, " Definitely don't
Laura Ann Moore: need that fifth pair of the same type of trainer."
Iona Bain: Yeah.
Laura Ann Moore: But if you look at that and go, " Okay, I've
Laura Ann Moore: got a little bit money left over my budget, I
Laura Ann Moore: am still going to buy that thing." So it's not
Laura Ann Moore: that you're fully restricting yourself, you're just waiting till later
Laura Ann Moore: on in the month. Also, if you add up all of that
Laura Ann Moore: money that you would've spent, look at it and you go, "
Laura Ann Moore: That's technically how much I've saved, because I've not spent
Laura Ann Moore: that money."
Iona Bain: Yeah. That's a really good point. And I think a
Iona Bain: lot of this is about putting friction back in your
Iona Bain: finances because it's just too easy to spend now. With
Iona Bain: cash dying out, with us all tapping our cards, with
Iona Bain: us spending online, one- click payments, these are all methods
Iona Bain: that are geared towards us spending more. And so it's
Iona Bain: I think down to us as individuals to just put
Iona Bain: those speed bumps back in our finances.
Laura Ann Moore: Yeah. And with the age of social media, I think
Laura Ann Moore: it's so easy to look at everybody else living what
Laura Ann Moore: looks like a dream life and be like, "Well, I want
Laura Ann Moore: that now." And I think learning the art of delayed
Laura Ann Moore: gratification goes hand- in- hand with learning how to save,
Laura Ann Moore: that you can't uncouple them. And the more that you're
Laura Ann Moore: able to learn how to enjoy and create delayed gratification,
Laura Ann Moore: I genuinely think the happier you are long term in
Laura Ann Moore: life and also financially happy.
Iona Bain: Yes, I couldn't agree more. So can you talk about
Iona Bain: some of the features on banking apps that might make
Iona Bain: it a little bit easier to do all of this?
Laura Ann Moore: I like being able to have in a bank account
Laura Ann Moore: on your phone different pots that you can name, that
Laura Ann Moore: you can emotionally attach to your goal, but then using
Laura Ann Moore: the AI part, which is roundups. So when you're spending
Laura Ann Moore: money, let's say it was £ 11.59 and it rounds it
Laura Ann Moore: up to £ 12, and that extra 41 p goes in
Laura Ann Moore: a little pot. It might not seem like a lot,
Laura Ann Moore: but over the course of a month of spending, it
Laura Ann Moore: can add up and it can just be a nice
Laura Ann Moore: little savings pot that is so useful.
Iona Bain: And also giving those pots nice names.
Laura Ann Moore: Yes. Because when you see the name of that, it
Laura Ann Moore: says holiday fund, or wherever you're off to, Ibiza fund,
Laura Ann Moore: or you really want a new car, if you are
Laura Ann Moore: one of those people that is more likely to dip
Laura Ann Moore: into your savings once you've done it, when you go
Laura Ann Moore: to that pot and it says, you can ask yourself, "
Laura Ann Moore: Okay, this money that I'm about to take out, is
Laura Ann Moore: that, A, taking me closer towards my goal or further
Laura Ann Moore: away from it, but also, what am I taking from
Laura Ann Moore: my future self?" That is a meal on holiday.
Iona Bain: Yeah, that is one less cocktail in Ibiza.
Laura Ann Moore: YEA.
Iona Bain: You do not want to deprive yourself of that.
Laura Ann Moore: You don't want to deprive yourself of that. Keep that
Laura Ann Moore: money in there. It brings awareness to that moment, but
Laura Ann Moore: it creates that connection between what that future version of
Laura Ann Moore: yourself is using that money for. And that kind of
Laura Ann Moore: taps into the sort of neuroscience part of your brain,
Laura Ann Moore: which is allowing you to visualize and create emotion. And
Laura Ann Moore: therefore, if the behavior comes from the emotion, if you see, "
Laura Ann Moore: Oh, I'm taking from something that's going to be really
Laura Ann Moore: fun ..." And let's use coffee, for example. I love coffee.
Laura Ann Moore: However, I would happily cut back on a couple of
Laura Ann Moore: coffees to save for that because I do that every day. So I'm like, "
Laura Ann Moore: Oh, that's okay. This is more exciting for me." And
Laura Ann Moore: it can come back after, once I've saved.
Iona Bain: Yes. Good point. Let's come on to how you can
Iona Bain: save money whilst you're shopping. Is there any ways that
Iona Bain: you can start to build up that cash even whilst
Iona Bain: you're spending?
Laura Ann Moore: Definitely. So number one being cash back. So I think
Laura Ann Moore: people get a little bit confused by cash back because
Laura Ann Moore: they're like, " What's the catch?" But essentially it's different websites
Laura Ann Moore: where if you're planning to spend online anyway, especially coming
Laura Ann Moore: up to Christmas, you're going to be buying those gifts
Laura Ann Moore: if you use a cash back site first ... So you
Laura Ann Moore: go to the website, write in the retailer, click on
Laura Ann Moore: it, it directs you there. You spend money as you'd
Laura Ann Moore: planned, so either a percentage or a set fee, you were
Laura Ann Moore: already going to spend that money, so why not get
Laura Ann Moore: a little bit of kickback? Also, I'm a big fan
Laura Ann Moore: of just searching for discount codes. The amount of vouchers
Laura Ann Moore: and discount codes you can find when you're shopping online
Laura Ann Moore: just by typing in retailer discount code, it's crazy. So
Laura Ann Moore: therefore you're actually saving money itself on the purchase.
Iona Bain: Yeah.
Laura Ann Moore: And then I think looking at the areas of your
Laura Ann Moore: life where you already spend money and being able to
Laura Ann Moore: look at, okay, well where could I save with this?
Laura Ann Moore: So for example, if you love shopping for clothes, and
Laura Ann Moore: first of all, can you sell your own clothes and
Laura Ann Moore: make some money back on Vinted, and then utilize that
Laura Ann Moore: money within Vinted, which is a secondhand online store, to
Laura Ann Moore: buy new clothes? So it's kind of like you're not
Laura Ann Moore: really losing or gaining anything. It's kind of more like swapping.
Iona Bain: Yeah, you're keeping your money within that platform and therefore
Iona Bain: it's not really coming out of your bank account.
Laura Ann Moore: Exactly. Especially with fast fashion. It's a way of looking after the
Laura Ann Moore: environment, looking after your own bank account. Another one is if
Laura Ann Moore: you're wanting to save a bit of money while you
Laura Ann Moore: spend with groceries, planning is one of the best ways
Laura Ann Moore: to help save money when you're spending. Planning ahead, for
Laura Ann Moore: the week for your dinners, taking lunch in instead of
Laura Ann Moore: eating lunch out, all things like that.
Iona Bain: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Laura, I could talk to you about this all day
Iona Bain: long, but if I had to whittle you down to
Iona Bain: three tips for staying motivated while saving for the long term,
Iona Bain: what would they be?
Laura Ann Moore: I think number one would be tracking your progress. It's
Laura Ann Moore: really important to make sure you know where you're headed
Laura Ann Moore: and how you're doing. Even if you feel like your
Laura Ann Moore: progress isn't going as quick or as easy as you
Laura Ann Moore: want, that is all data. What is working, what's not?
Laura Ann Moore: Where can I be better? What's tripping me up? All
Laura Ann Moore: of those little things is just data to do a
Laura Ann Moore: better job for the next month. Number two is celebrating
Laura Ann Moore: your milestones. So if you have this big goal, I
Laura Ann Moore: want to save £ 20,000 for a house deposit, but right
Laura Ann Moore: now you have £ 100, that feels overwhelming. That is like,
Laura Ann Moore: what's the point? How do I even get started? So
Laura Ann Moore: being able to see the staircase, a little celebration when
Laura Ann Moore: I hit my £ 1, 000. Obviously you don't spend the
Laura Ann Moore: thousand and undo all of that work. But a little treat, something
Laura Ann Moore: that feels rewarding to be able to do that. And I definitely think using
Laura Ann Moore: visual aids is really, really useful.
Iona Bain: Oh, I'm such a visual person, so that really works
Iona Bain: for me.
Laura Ann Moore: Massively. And coloring it in, stickers, anything that's very childlike
Laura Ann Moore: and playful brings just a little bit of joy to
Laura Ann Moore: it. And it actually turns on a little bit in the brain,
Laura Ann Moore: which is the dopamine. It makes it exciting. That's why,
Laura Ann Moore: you know when you have a to- do list and
Laura Ann Moore: you do something that's not on the list, so you
Laura Ann Moore: add it to the list so you can tick it
Laura Ann Moore: off? I do that all-
Iona Bain: I do that all the time.
Laura Ann Moore: There's something in the brain that it makes you feel
Laura Ann Moore: good, it makes you feel accomplished. So doing the same
Laura Ann Moore: thing with your savings, it makes you more connected to
Laura Ann Moore: it. And I think it just makes the whole thing
Laura Ann Moore: more enjoyable. And the third tip would be having the
Laura Ann Moore: mindset of a saver. So knowing that you see yourself
Laura Ann Moore: as a saver, you speak about your savings in a
Laura Ann Moore: positive way, and that you believe in your own abilities
Laura Ann Moore: to save. I'm a big believer of being like, no
Laura Ann Moore: one's coming to save you. It's on you. And that
Laura Ann Moore: can help you feel so proud. The sense of achievement
Laura Ann Moore: when you reach your own goals and you've done it
Laura Ann Moore: is just like nothing else. But you have to have
Laura Ann Moore: that belief in yourself first. Even if up until this
Laura Ann Moore: point you've always struggled, use this as like a catalystic
Laura Ann Moore: moment to wipe the slate clean and say, " It doesn't
Laura Ann Moore: matter what's happened up until this point, I'm resetting. I
Laura Ann Moore: know that I can do it. And I'll start small
Laura Ann Moore: and I'll build it up and I'll build that confidence and
Laura Ann Moore: trust with myself so that I am a saver."
Iona Bain: Everyone at home is like, " Yes, I can do this."
Laura Ann Moore: Yeah.
Iona Bain: So galvanizing and inspiring. Thank you so much, Laura.
Laura Ann Moore: Thank you for having me.
Iona Bain: Honestly, so many great tips on how we can gamify
Iona Bain: our savings there and set good habits for the future.
Iona Bain: If this episode has sparked some inspiration for saving, I
Iona Bain: would love it if you could share the podcast and
Iona Bain: help others get a little bit richer too. This podcast
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Iona Bain: And before I go, I just want to say, if
Iona Bain: you've got a question or a topic that you'd like
Iona Bain: answered on the show, we would really love to hear
Iona Bain: from you. So please do get in touch on our
Iona Bain: socials. Until next time, see you soon.