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Iona Bain: Hello and welcome to A Little Bit Richer with me,
Iona Bain: Iona Bain, brought to you by L& G. Now, money
Iona Bain: can be an awkward discussion in any relationship, particularly with
Iona Bain: your other half. So when relationships transition from the fun
Iona Bain: and frolics of dating to saving and budgeting for a
Iona Bain: future together, it's important to get the fundamentals right. Friend
Iona Bain: of the show, Bola Sol is back with some helpful
Iona Bain: ways that couples can manage their money in a way
Iona Bain: that suits them. Financial advisor, Bola, is also a money
Iona Bain: columnist and author of Your Money Life and How To Save
Iona Bain: It. You might have seen her videos online on red
Iona Bain: financial flags in relationships. So, there really is nobody better
Iona Bain: to chat about this thorny subject. Welcome back, Bola.
Bola Sol: Hi Iona. Thanks for having me.
Iona Bain: So relationships are not all about the money, obviously.
Bola Sol: Of course not.
Iona Bain: But why do your finances matter when you are in
Iona Bain: a relationship with someone?
Bola Sol: Because money is a tool that we all have to
Bola Sol: use, and if we don't figure out how we're aligned
Bola Sol: on our finances, there can be a lot of mismatches in
Bola Sol: the relationship. And those mismatches can come in the form
Bola Sol: of the type of house you may want together, the
Bola Sol: type of future you may want together, if you do
Bola Sol: want children, the type of lifestyle that you want for
Bola Sol: those children, how you plan to retire, and what's important
Bola Sol: to you. So finance is a very big part of relationships,
Bola Sol: and there are definitely some stats that show it's one
Bola Sol: of the top five reasons people do get divorced.
Iona Bain: And is this an issue that you come across a
Iona Bain: lot in the work that you do? Do people come
Iona Bain: to you with differing approaches to finances within their relationships,
Iona Bain: and does that cause tension?
Bola Sol: Yes, it does. I would say there's some circumstances that
Bola Sol: stick out to me where some people are suffering in
Bola Sol: silence financially, they're having to take charge of a lot
Bola Sol: of costs, and they feel quite guilty about expressing that.
Bola Sol: And that's quite sad, because then it now means they
Bola Sol: have to confront their partner and say, " I don't feel
Bola Sol: supported here. I need you to support me more." And
Bola Sol: sometimes the response that they get, it could just be, "
Bola Sol: Well, you've been dealing with it so far, keep dealing
Bola Sol: with it," and that can cause so much tension in
Bola Sol: any relationship.
Iona Bain: And are there aspects of modern dating that can exacerbate
Iona Bain: these issues? For instance, when you're dating online, perhaps you
Iona Bain: see someone present a lifestyle that's actually quite different to
Iona Bain: how they manage their finances and maybe you don't get
Iona Bain: to find out what their financial situation is until quite
Iona Bain: a bit later on in the relationship.
Bola Sol: Yeah, and that's why communication's important, because there's only so
Bola Sol: much you can see online and take from someone's lifestyle,
Bola Sol: which is why you can't just take everything at face
Bola Sol: value. So I think it is key that you are
Bola Sol: having those discussions about maybe where are you right now
Bola Sol: when it comes to your financial priorities?
Iona Bain: And do people change their attitudes towards money once they
Iona Bain: get into relationships? Do they sometimes shift and adapt and
Iona Bain: evolve because there is someone now significant in their life
Iona Bain: that they want to share goals with, or is it
Iona Bain: a mistake to assume that will automatically happen?
Bola Sol: I think it varies person to person. So, when I
Bola Sol: got into my relationship now, I've felt a sense of
Bola Sol: accountability about my decisions, about my spending and my why,
Bola Sol: because we're planning to share life together. So that just
Bola Sol: means I can't just make decisions on my own. And
Bola Sol: I have seen some people start to absolve themselves of
Bola Sol: responsibility when they get into relationships. So it becomes, " I
Bola Sol: don't have to think about this." And that is also
Bola Sol: irresponsible because it puts a lot of pressure on one
Bola Sol: person to essentially be the adult in the relationship when
Bola Sol: both of you are adults.
Iona Bain: How can we avoid slipping into those roles within our
Iona Bain: relationships, and maybe stepping up and becoming a bit more equal
Iona Bain: in how we manage things?
Bola Sol: I think you used an important term there, which is
Bola Sol: part of the solution, which is stepping up. Even if
Bola Sol: some people they don't feel very confident about finances, it's
Bola Sol: still worth asking questions and also potentially saying, " What can
Bola Sol: I do to help in the situation?" And then potentially,
Bola Sol: over time, they could take on certain responsibilities. That could
Bola Sol: be being the one who initiates the conversation about the
Bola Sol: budget. It could also be taking on particular bills and
Bola Sol: ensuring that that's covered every single month.
Iona Bain: And what are your thoughts on maintaining your own independence
Iona Bain: in a relationship versus joining your finances with someone else?
Iona Bain: Because lots of couples might feel like they should have
Iona Bain: a joint account because that means that they can have
Iona Bain: transparency, that can make joint planning a lot easier. But
Iona Bain: on the other hand, having your own financial account means
Iona Bain: having some independence and some privacy. What are your thoughts
Iona Bain: there on achieving the right balance?
Bola Sol: I think the right balance comes from having four accounts,
Bola Sol: which is joint savings, a joint current account for bills,
Bola Sol: and then individual savings and an individual current.
Iona Bain: Okay, so not just having a joint account but also
Iona Bain: having a joint savings account as well?
Bola Sol: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's up to you, really, as a
Bola Sol: couple. Do you want to do all of your savings
Bola Sol: together, and if so, what does that look like? So
Bola Sol: are there any T's and C's that are part of
Bola Sol: that? So for example, if you plan to take out
Bola Sol: a certain amount of money, the other partner needs to
Bola Sol: be very aware of that. And maybe you need joint
Bola Sol: signatures, so I think that some things need to be
Bola Sol: put in place, because I have heard of circumstances where
Bola Sol: money has been taken from joint savings and used in
Bola Sol: ways in which it wasn't agreed on. So you do
Bola Sol: have to find a way to make that work.
Iona Bain: You've brought up a really important point there. How can
Iona Bain: you protect yourself? Because unfortunately, sometimes you might end up
Iona Bain: in a relationship where that other person isn't what they
Iona Bain: seem, and we know unfortunately financial and economic abuse can
Iona Bain: and does happen. What can you do to protect yourself
Iona Bain: against anything like that happening?
Bola Sol: Be careful about the decisions you make, and don't feel
Bola Sol: like you have to make them under duress or very
Bola Sol: quickly. At times when you are in a relationship, emotions
Bola Sol: are such a big part of that. It's very easy
Bola Sol: for someone to potentially try to pressure you to make
Bola Sol: a decision, but it's okay to say, " I'm going to
Bola Sol: come back to you on that," and do what's in
Bola Sol: your best interest, not because of you fear anything. Also,
Bola Sol: wherever possible, I'd say speak to someone that you are
Bola Sol: close with and you trust who knows you, because at times,
Bola Sol: a way financial abuse or economic abuse can start is
Bola Sol: through isolation. If you can just have that one person, that
Bola Sol: confidant who you can tell who can maybe, where you
Bola Sol: see fit, give you some advice to ensure that you
Bola Sol: are not now on the borderline of being financially abused,
Bola Sol: because some people don't see it coming.
Iona Bain: No. And being aware of the practical risks as well, of
Iona Bain: having a joint account with someone, or taking out a
Iona Bain: credit card or a mortgage with them. Many people might
Iona Bain: not realize that by doing that, they're also then potentially
Iona Bain: taking on their partner's debt. Just tell me a little
Iona Bain: bit about why we need to be cautious if we
Iona Bain: borrow money or we join up our finances with someone.
Bola Sol: Yeah. So, if there's a legal civil partnership or you are
Bola Sol: married, and even if you get a joint account and
Bola Sol: you're not married, sometimes your credit scores can be joined
Bola Sol: together. And what it means, is that maybe a debt
Bola Sol: that has been taken on by one party means that
Bola Sol: if anything is to happen to that debt that you
Bola Sol: have to take care of it. Or essentially, now your
Bola Sol: credit score can change as a result of that. So
Bola Sol: I think what's really key is that you're having discussions
Bola Sol: about how you use and manage credit as well. And
Bola Sol: I think it's so key that we don't let emotions
Bola Sol: get in the way.
Iona Bain: It's so difficult though, because apart from anything in our
Iona Bain: culture, we are encouraged to buy into romance and to
Iona Bain: let the romance sweep us off our feet. And if
Iona Bain: we fall in love, it's intoxicating, and common sense can
Iona Bain: kind of go out of the window, and it can
Iona Bain: feel deeply unromantic and deeply unsexy to have any kind
Iona Bain: of conversation about money. Have you got any advice about
Iona Bain: how we can get over that feeling of, " It'll spoil
Iona Bain: the romance if I bring any of this up"?
Bola Sol: I think you have to think about the long- term
Bola Sol: effects of not bringing it up. So often people go
Bola Sol: into things and then it's a sense of regret, " Oh,
Bola Sol: I wish I did bring this up earlier." So I
Bola Sol: just say bring it up now, because you also get
Bola Sol: to see how your partner responds to those things, and
Bola Sol: their response is incredibly important. So, when you bring up
Bola Sol: finances, are they short with you? Are they snappy? You
Bola Sol: have to look at all those things. Are they avoidant
Bola Sol: or do they communicate with you and say, " Okay, I
Bola Sol: can do this next week and so on and so on"?
Bola Sol: Sometimes you have to talk about the hard things and
Bola Sol: do the hard things. That's how long- term relationships work.
Bola Sol: So, I just say just see finance as one part
Bola Sol: of that as opposed to all of it.
Iona Bain: Every relationship is different, but are there solid foundations that
Iona Bain: we can build on when it comes to sharing our
Iona Bain: finances and doing it in a way that feels healthy
Iona Bain: and equal?
Bola Sol: I think if every month or so you are both
Bola Sol: able to talk about your finances, I think that's great.
Bola Sol: Whether it's a thing where you're talking about income or
Bola Sol: you're talking about outgoings, for example, I think that's an
Bola Sol: important conversation to have. Also, just having someone as a soundboard, "
Bola Sol: What do you think of this?" I'd like to do
Bola Sol: this but this isn't making sense," and so on.
Iona Bain: Because if you're wanting to share your life with that
Iona Bain: person, you need to be able to talk about as
Iona Bain: much of your life as possible, and that includes your
Iona Bain: finances. So to have it as a kind of blind
Iona Bain: spot, as something that you just don't discuss in a
Iona Bain: relationship as a no- go zone, that doesn't feel sustainable long-term.
Bola Sol: I agree. I think we have to be able to
Bola Sol: be vulnerable with each other in so many different ways.
Iona Bain: What if you get into a relationship with somebody who
Iona Bain: is maybe not as good with their finances as you
Iona Bain: are with yours? Or maybe they're doing better with their
Iona Bain: finances than you are and there is a bit of
Iona Bain: a gap there, how can one partner help the other
Iona Bain: get to a better place?
Bola Sol: I would say maybe have couple planning meetings, and also
Bola Sol: try to provide a sense of support to them. Okay,
Bola Sol: maybe you've got a credit card debt. Have you looked
Bola Sol: at the options? Have you looked at a 0% balance
Bola Sol: transfer card, for example? So it could be helping them
Bola Sol: with that, but it also could be bringing up the conversation
Bola Sol: in a very gentle way as a way to keep
Bola Sol: them accountable, whether that is paying off debt or whether
Bola Sol: that's savings. I think showing that you are involved and
Bola Sol: you care is so important.
Iona Bain: And then when it comes to whether you should split
Iona Bain: your finances 50- 50 or if it should be based on
Iona Bain: income, what's your view on that?
Bola Sol: I think it's really important for you to decide what's
Bola Sol: fair to each other, and you have to ask yourself
Bola Sol: if the roles were reversed, how would you like things
Bola Sol: to be handled? So let's say, for example, you are in
Bola Sol: the position where you are earning more money, what do
Bola Sol: you do if you're not in the position where you're
Bola Sol: earning more money? How would you like to be treated
Bola Sol: by that partner if things were to change and it
Bola Sol: was the other way around? Would you say, " I still
Bola Sol: feel like that's fair"?
Iona Bain: And do you have any advice for how you can
Iona Bain: manage differing attitudes to spending within relationships? Let's say one partner
Iona Bain: still wants to go on lots of holidays and still
Iona Bain: wants to live a lavish lifestyle, but you both have
Iona Bain: goals that you want to save for. How can you talk
Iona Bain: about that in a way that doesn't feel confrontational, that's
Iona Bain: not going to create tension?
Bola Sol: If one person differs from the other and they want
Bola Sol: to maybe live more lavishly, yeah, I think it's important
Bola Sol: to ask, does it get in the way of your
Bola Sol: priorities and the joint goals that you have together? And
Bola Sol: if so, then it's maybe time to sacrifice some of
Bola Sol: them for what you're building.
Iona Bain: Because I do think you will have different spending habits
Iona Bain: if you are single compared to if you're in a
Iona Bain: serious long- term relationship, and your finances are a pretty
Iona Bain: unforgiving mirror of what's important to you. So once you
Iona Bain: are in that relationship, if you're still spending like you're
Iona Bain: single, then maybe there is that mismatch there and you're
Iona Bain: not quite ready for that commitment. And that's why finances
Iona Bain: actually are a really important area for us to look
Iona Bain: at. They're a barometer, maybe, of the health of our relationship
Iona Bain: in many ways, even if we don't like to admit it.
Bola Sol: Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that.
Iona Bain: Are there any particular red flags that we should be
Iona Bain: mindful of or when it comes to our partners and
Iona Bain: their finances?
Bola Sol: Yes. So, I'd say the first red flag is complete
Bola Sol: avoidance of talking about money. I don't agree with that at all, and
Bola Sol: I think that is enough of a red flag for
Bola Sol: you to question the relationship entirely. And you get to
Bola Sol: choose how you'd move on from that because you're going
Bola Sol: to have to make so many joint decisions where money
Bola Sol: is involved.
Iona Bain: So in a way, if you have that conversation early
Iona Bain: on and they tell you, " I haven't always been great
Iona Bain: with my finances and I still have these issues that I
Iona Bain: really want to get over," that's better than them saying, "
Iona Bain: I don't want to talk about this at all"?
Bola Sol: Absolutely, because they are still communicating with you.
Iona Bain: So, I'm keen to ask as well about how much
Iona Bain: people are maybe looking to relationships as a way to
Iona Bain: shore up their financial position, which is very understandable at
Iona Bain: the moment, because we are in a tough economic climate
Iona Bain: and life is easier when you can share your expenses
Iona Bain: with someone else. But are there dangers there, that we
Iona Bain: maybe seek out other people, really, more for the financial
Iona Bain: security that they offer, rather than all the other good
Iona Bain: things that we should be able to get from a relationship?
Bola Sol: Yeah. You have to be honest with yourself. And I
Bola Sol: say that because maybe no one will question you, but
Bola Sol: you have to be able to question yourself. And some
Bola Sol: people may come out and say, " Look, right now, the
Bola Sol: financial stability is important," but you have to rank it.
Bola Sol: One of the things that I do, and I've done this
Bola Sol: with my partner, is I know I would share a
Bola Sol: shed or a mansion with him. And that's enough for
Bola Sol: me to know, " Okay, this is my person."
Iona Bain: It really is a case for richer or poorer?
Bola Sol: Yeah, exactly. If the person you get with tomorrow, based
Bola Sol: on their cash flow, no longer has that money, do
Bola Sol: you still like them? It's incredibly important. And that's why
Bola Sol: I always say character over cash flow. Cash flow can
Bola Sol: change. And when it does, are you still really riding
Bola Sol: with that person or is it kind of like, " Oh,
Bola Sol: this doesn't work for me anymore"?
Iona Bain: Well, that's why Pride and Prejudice works. It would not
Iona Bain: work if Elizabeth Bennet at the end turned around and said, "
Iona Bain: Well, I still don't like Mr. Darcy, but he's worth
Iona Bain: a few bob."
Bola Sol: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Things can go up or down, and
Bola Sol: that goes for either of you. Sometimes you are able
Bola Sol: to give more and then other times you give less,
Bola Sol: and you kind of take it in turns.
Iona Bain: Absolutely. So, how can we talk about money and not
Iona Bain: let it affect our relationship? How can we continue to
Iona Bain: have fun with one another and still be able to
Iona Bain: keep our eye on those important goals?
Bola Sol: I would say make sure that there's a time and
Bola Sol: a place that you speak about it so that no
Bola Sol: one feels like they're caught off guard. Also, make sure
Bola Sol: the timing is right. If someone has a long day
Bola Sol: and things like that, read those signs and potentially just ask, "
Bola Sol: Do you want to do this another day?" But don't
Bola Sol: keep putting it off. That's the thing. Still have the
Bola Sol: hard conversations. And I'd say talk about the intricacies of
Bola Sol: finances. So, talk about life insurance, talk about legal powers
Bola Sol: of attorney and future income, where you want to be, investments, "
Bola Sol: Are we making those together?" Talk about pensions. Where are
Bola Sol: you both from a pension perspective? And then of course,
Bola Sol: there's the everyday budgeting and having your financial goals.
Iona Bain: So we've ranged over so much there. It can be
Iona Bain: difficult to boil this down to three tips for managing
Iona Bain: your finances with a partner, but what would your top
Iona Bain: three tips be?
Bola Sol: Make sure you speak about it regularly. It could be
Bola Sol: once a month, it could be once every two months,
Bola Sol: but don't let too much time pass. So consistency is
Bola Sol: important. Number two, always, always speak with love. I can't
Bola Sol: say that enough. Never speak with an accusatory tone or, "
Bola Sol: I'm better at you than finances" and so on. And
Bola Sol: with number three, and this is more on the basis
Bola Sol: of marriage and long- term futures, ensure you understand that
Bola Sol: essentially it's kind of like one income. If you're not
Bola Sol: planning to do this life alone, there is no point
Bola Sol: you saying, " Oh, I make 6k and they make 2,
Bola Sol: you make 8k. And that's just an example. It can
Bola Sol: be a different number. That's something that's important for everyone
Bola Sol: to learn, because the moment you get into, " This is
Bola Sol: my money and this is their money," I think that's
Bola Sol: very dangerous territory. Eventually, you have to see it as, "
Bola Sol: This is our money, what are we going to do
Bola Sol: with it?"
Iona Bain: Because ultimately, 8k is better than 6k or 2k.
Bola Sol: Exactly.
Iona Bain: But it's about understanding what you can do together with
Iona Bain: that money, and making sure you're both on the same
Iona Bain: page and happy with it.
Bola Sol: Yeah.
Iona Bain: Brilliant. Bola Sol, this has been so, so helpful. Thank you.
Bola Sol: Thank you.
Iona Bain: Thank you so much, Bola. We've got so many ideas there
Iona Bain: for how we can plan our financial futures. Brilliant stuff.
Iona Bain: Next time, L& G's Paula Llewellyn will be here to
Iona Bain: tell us what might be changing with your workplace pension
Iona Bain: and why it matters. I'd love it if you could
Iona Bain: follow the podcast, leave us a review and help others
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Iona Bain: time, see you soon.