Shirley Ballas: Hello, I'm Shirley Ballas and welcome to Rewirement, the retirement
Shirley Ballas: podcast from Legal & General. In this six part series, I'll
Shirley Ballas: be exploring what it means to retire in today's world.
Shirley Ballas: The golden years retirement of old has given way to
Shirley Ballas: the new colorful retirement, an opportunity to reset, reinvent and
Shirley Ballas: rewire. From how you can make the most of it
Shirley Ballas: and have the lifestyle you dream of, adapt to change
Shirley Ballas: on your own or with a partner. Or even how
Shirley Ballas: you might continue doing the work you love at a
Shirley Ballas: pace that suits, we've got you covered. Thanks to my
Shirley Ballas: expert guests, I'll be gathering suggestions to take away the
Shirley Ballas: worry and make sure you feel confident, comfortable, and in
Shirley Ballas: control of your finances after you've quit the day job.
Shirley Ballas: Across the next few episodes, we'll be shaking off our
Shirley Ballas: taboos and getting personal as we meet colorful rewirerees and
Shirley Ballas: would be rewirerees to talk about the issues, questions, and
Shirley Ballas: concerns that everyone faces.
Tracy: I would like to retire and do all those things
Tracy: I want to do.
Shirley Ballas: I think it's so important for people to open up
Shirley Ballas: and talk about money. As well as getting our young
Shirley Ballas: people to take an interest in their pensions, whatever they
Shirley Ballas: can set aside, because it comes around in a flash.
Shirley Ballas: With a little bit of planning, life after 60 can
Shirley Ballas: be the most colorful.
Speaker 3: You've just got to grab hold of it with both
Speaker 3: hands and get on.
Shirley Ballas: If you lend me your ear for a little while,
Shirley Ballas: I'll do my very best to help you with planning
Shirley Ballas: for your future, so you can look forward to the
Shirley Ballas: retirement of your dreams. Before we start talking about the
Shirley Ballas: ins and outs of enjoying your retirement, we're going to
Shirley Ballas: look at how the way you plan to spend your
Shirley Ballas: time is as important as your pension pot and making
Shirley Ballas: decisions about when and how you'd like to transition to
Shirley Ballas: retirement. Later on I'll be joined by Chris Knight from
Shirley Ballas: Legal & General, as well as Dr. Allison Smith from the
Shirley Ballas: Royal Voluntary Service for their advice and ideas on planning
Shirley Ballas: your new beginning. Before we do that, I want to
Shirley Ballas: introduce you to some of the stars of our show.
Shirley Ballas: I got together with two groups of brilliantly, chatty, talented
Shirley Ballas: and very inspiring people to talk about where they're at
Shirley Ballas: in their retirement journey. First up, meet Tracy, Collin and John.
Tracy: I'm Tracy. I live in Hove, originally from Wales. I've
Tracy: been down in Brighton and Hove for 30 years. I
Tracy: am a teacher, well I was a teacher and I
Tracy: worked for West Sussex County Council in the education department.
Tracy: I have got two children who are 12 and 15, and I
Tracy: live with my partner, Simon.
Collin: My name's Collin, I'm from Worthing. I'm a self- employed
Collin: IT consultant, probably six, seven years away from retiring. I've
Collin: got two grown up children, both of whom are now
Collin: independent and in jobs. Well, my daughter was, she just
Collin: had a grandchild 11 months ago, our first grandchild. I'm
Collin: a Sussex born and bred, virtually lived in Sussex all
Collin: my life apart from about two years living in London
Collin: in my early career.
John: I'm John, I've been retired about three years. I worked
John: in the Lloyd's Insurance market in London. I am married
John: with two grown up children.
Shirley Ballas: I started by asking my new friends how they felt
Shirley Ballas: about approaching retirement. Colin was first to share his thoughts.
Collin: I'm not really prepared for it. I'm pretty excited about
Collin: it if we can live a decent retirement, be healthy,
Collin: have enough money to do the things we would like
Collin: to do. It's a new opportunity. I would see that
Collin: I would do quite a bit of volunteering. We've got
Collin: a ninth share in what's called a syndicate boat already,
Collin: and that moves around the country every couple of years.
Collin: It moves to a different base, so we get four
Collin: or five weeks on it a year if we wanted it.
Collin: The plan ultimately is to sell our shares and money
Collin: permit in and around about the time of retirement or semi-
Collin: retirement to maybe buy a boat. Cruise the network during
Collin: the decent weather for three or four years, do as
Collin: much of it as we can.
Shirley Ballas: John is already enjoying his retirement. I asked him if
Shirley Ballas: the move was what he had expected.
John: Well, that's a very interesting question Shirley, because I wasn't
John: quite sure how I would react to retirement. Some people
John: I know have found it very difficult, that they felt
John: that they're no longer of use to society because they're
John: not working. I have to admit, I didn't find that at all.
John: I was starting to find as I approached retirement that
John: I wasn't quite as enthusiastic about what I was doing
John: anymore or I was getting 60 odd. I was very
John: pleased to retire in the end, and I haven't felt worthless at all. I've
John: been very happy.
Shirley Ballas: All right, we asked the same question to Tracy.
Tracy: Well, I'm looking forward to my retirement, but I've got
Tracy: to tell you Shirley, I'm only turning 50 next year.
Tracy: It's still feeling as though it is quite a long
Tracy: way off, I think it's exciting to be retired. One
Tracy: of the things about my life, I have a lovely
Tracy: life at the moment, but I feel as though I'm
Tracy: living in time poverty. I haven't got much time to
Tracy: do the things that I want to do, and I feel
Tracy: that I would like to retire and do all those
Tracy: things that I want to do. Things that perhaps don't cost
Tracy: that much money either, but one of the things I
Tracy: am very unsure about is when I can retire because
Tracy: my background is teaching. I've got a teacher's pension. I
Tracy: ducks out of teaching for a little while and I
Tracy: worked for a different company doing training, so I've got
Tracy: a little pension pot with them. It's all over the
Tracy: place Shirley. I don't know when I'll be able to
Tracy: retire, but I feel like now listening to my colleagues
Tracy: here this evening, I've got a chance to put things
Tracy: in place and that's what I'll need to do. My
Tracy: ideal would be to retire early 60s and just enjoy
Tracy: my time when I, hopefully I'm very fit, still got
Tracy: my energy to do the things that I want to do.
Tracy: One of the main things that I'd like to do
Tracy: is to travel around the coast of Wales in a
Tracy: camper van.
Shirley Ballas: I love that idea. Our second group featured David and
Shirley Ballas: Marcus, who both spend their free time at a London
Shirley Ballas: based choir.
David: I'm David. I am 60 in a few months time. I
David: am already retired and have been for over five years.
David: I have spent quite a lot of time in the
David: past five years trying to get to grips with pension
David: related issues. We don't have any children and we have
David: a couple of cats who as far as I know,
David: are blissfully unaware of pension issues.
Marcus: My name's Marcus, I just turned 50 last month so
Marcus: I'm still recovering from that shock. I'm still very much
Marcus: in my working career, I think I probably have another
Marcus: 10 to 15 years work left. I'm an Australian as
Marcus: you can probably hear from my voice. Fiddled here about
Marcus: 15 years ago and due course became a dual citizen.
Marcus: My wife is Croatian, she arrived here same time as
Marcus: I did, 15 years ago. We have three children. I
Marcus: have a stepdaughter who's 28 years old and I have
Marcus: twin boys age 21.
Shirley Ballas: Dave took early retirement after a career in financial services.
David: Although we have not, since I retired, traveled as much as
David: I had anticipated, that was obviously very much part of
David: the agenda. Just the glory of being able to go
David: and watch a film at lunchtimes on a Monday and
David: things like that. Obviously singing, which is something that both
David: of us do, it's very much enhanced that I joined
David: a second choir. I've been able to do all these
David: things. Life is easily filled I found and I know
David: everybody says it, but it really is true. How on
David: earth I ever found the time to get into the
David: office for seven and work till six in the evening, I
David: have no idea.
Shirley Ballas: Marcus runs his own business with two other partners. I
Shirley Ballas: asked him if retirement was in his sights at 50.
Marcus: I see retirement as a gradual process, a tapering off
Marcus: rather than an end. I'm fortunate that I'm in the
Marcus: kind of business where my work is project work, basically
Marcus: it's consulting assignments. I think as I approach retirement, I'll
Marcus: just get increasingly picky about what I take on. It's
Marcus: perfectly possible to slip into a role where you're doing,
Marcus: I don't know, 40 or 50 days of work a year
Marcus: on a project you think you're interested, worthwhile get a
Marcus: little top up income. Keep the gray cells ticking over
Marcus: as it were. I don't see retirement as being any
Marcus: kind of a sudden end, more a gradual progression.
Shirley Ballas: David's retirement wasn't the gentle progression he might've preferred. He
Shirley Ballas: told me about his experience and the realities of cutting down
Shirley Ballas: on hours.
David: It wasn't gentle and I mean, I was ill so
David: I was forced to stop work. The only thing that
David: was gentle about it is that, because they hadn't found
David: a replacement, I ended up working an extra month on
David: a half day basis. That was actually quite nice, but
David: no, it was a fairly enormous gap from a full on
David: very busy job to not working at all. Well, a
David: lot of people and I've spoken to friends who are saying, "
David: I quite like doing my job," and I enjoy doing
David: what I did, so that wasn't an issue. Finding ways
David: of doing it as Marcus has talked about on some
David: more picky basis, but that's simply not practical for most
David: employment situations. I know of someone who went on to,
David: people who go onto three day a week arrangements quite
David: often end up packing into five days worth of work
David: into a shorter period. Or things that actually are important them
David: not really being involved in when they're out of the office.
David: Therefore, feeling a little bit out of the loop on a
David: lot of issues, so it's tricky to try and achieve
David: that. In a lot of cases, people end up stopping
David: suddenly. I mean, I might've stopped in another year, but
David: if you're stable in a job and quite enjoying what
David: you're doing, it's quite hard to choose a point and say, "
David: This is the right time to go." Then most people that
David: I know who have recent retired, there's been some specific trigger.
Shirley Ballas: From a busy job to hours of extra time on
Shirley Ballas: your hands, David explained how he kept up the pace
Shirley Ballas: at the start of his retirement.
David: I pretty much went into projects straight away. The first
David: of which was to repaint the house from top to
David: bottom. I wrote a book so that took up a
David: fair amount of time. I would say now five years
David: on, that I've reached the end of that, ideas that
David: I had in my head. Actually now considering other new
David: things in particularly getting maybe involved in the mentoring world
David: or something like that, as a chance to give something
David: back. I've had quite a lot of me- time in
David: the past five years, but I'd like to do something
David: a bit more constructive. I would say the singing aspect, which
David: is what unites us here, was very important because actually
David: that was the one thing that was aside from having
David: language students in our house, it was the one thing
David: that was a continuity from before to after. That it's
David: Monday nights was rehearsal night, the week before I stopped
David: working and the week after, that was really helpful to
David: have that. For some it can be tricky to find
David: new things to do. I met a friend recently who
David: lives on his own and he's clearly struggled more than
David: I have in terms of finding useful things to do
David: with his life. It's partly when you've earned reasonably well
David: out of doing things that is not of great value to
David: mankind. There are a lot of things that don't work
David: that well in society and it would be a worthwhile thing
David: to do. I know I'd say more than worthwhile, I
David: think a necessary thing to try and give people some
David: benefit of experience, or to just do something practical that
David: is of benefit to others. Proof is in actually going
David: out and doing it.
Shirley Ballas: Thanks to our fantastic guests for getting together and sharing their
Shirley Ballas: stories and perspectives. We'll be getting to know them a
Shirley Ballas: lot better over the next few episodes and meeting a
Shirley Ballas: few new friends too. To talk in depth about the
Shirley Ballas: questions that came out of our chat, I'm joined now
Shirley Ballas: by Chris Knight, the CEO of Legal & General Retail Retirement
Shirley Ballas: and Dr. Allison Smith, the head of research and insight,
Shirley Ballas: Royal Voluntary Service. Thank you both for joining me.
Chris Knight: Hello.
Dr. Allison Smith: Hi Shirley.
Shirley Ballas: Chris, how has retirement changed?
Chris Knight: Well, Shirley look, people used to think of their lives in
Chris Knight: three blocks if you like. First one was, being at
Chris Knight: school and the second one was working full time, full pelt if
Chris Knight: you like for part one or two employers. Then there was a
Chris Knight: moment, a magic moment when you got a carriage clock,
Chris Knight: you shook hands with your employer and then you were
Chris Knight: retired and that was kind of it. You pass at
Chris Knight: a pension or two pensions, you had the government pension and your
Chris Knight: employer pension. You perhaps felt quite well looked after. You
Chris Knight: owned your own home, which was fully paid for. It's
Chris Knight: kind of the ideal model. It wasn't always actually the
Chris Knight: reality, but it's a very strong model of it in people's
Chris Knight: minds. People's lives these days are much, much more complicated
Chris Knight: than that. People's ambitions have changed. They want and expect
Chris Knight: much more fulfilling lives. They've got aspirations and hopes and
Chris Knight: dreams in retirement, just like they have at any other
Chris Knight: moment in their lives. It is much more complicated and
Chris Knight: they have to find their own path.
Shirley Ballas: Wow, that is complicated. That sounds complicated Chris. What are some of the
Shirley Ballas: challenges facing today's retirees?
Chris Knight: Well Shirley, there's lots of challenges. Some of them are good
Chris Knight: challenges to have, and some of them are more tough challenges to have.
Chris Knight: People are living longer so I mean, that's obviously great,
Chris Knight: but it does mean they have to make their money
Chris Knight: stretch further, that more complex lives, the more different family
Chris Knight: situations. We've seen an increase in divorce rates amongst older
Chris Knight: people. For some retirees they still have maybe their own
Chris Knight: children living at home, and they've got the responsibility of looking after
Chris Knight: their own, even older parents. They feel under pressure from
Chris Knight: generational pressures, but also from their own health and their
Chris Knight: own care costs. People might have a whole number of
Chris Knight: different pension arrangements from different employers during their careers. They
Chris Knight: might have more housing wealth than they actually do liquid
Chris Knight: savings. Some older people are still paying off a mortgage.
Chris Knight: People have pension freedoms, which sounds great, but obviously with
Chris Knight: freedom it brings that responsibility of choice. Some people love
Chris Knight: that and other people find that a bit daunting, but
Chris Knight: most people naturally look to a company like L& G
Chris Knight: to help them get through this.
Shirley Ballas: What do you mean when you talk about helping people
Shirley Ballas: have more colorful retirement?
Chris Knight: Well look, the imagery around retirement can be quite bland
Chris Knight: and colorless sometimes. People talk about Grey pounds or silver
Chris Knight: surfers, and you often see a retired couple's picture as
Chris Knight: walking hand in hand towards the setting sun. At Legal &
Chris Knight: General, we're much more positive and we want to be positive and ambitious
Chris Knight: for people, for our customers and for society as a
Chris Knight: whole. Though while retirement can be a challenge, there's also
Chris Knight: huge hopes and dreams for people. They can really make
Chris Knight: a huge contribution and get a lot of pleasure out
Chris Knight: of life, so it's not all doom and gloom. We
Chris Knight: want to put our products in the context of people's real
Chris Knight: lives. Everyone's unique and everyone has their own unique color
Chris Knight: scheme in retirement.
Shirley Ballas: Allison, what are the benefits of volunteering in retirement?
Dr. Allison Smith: Chris has mentioned that the old notion of retirement and
Dr. Allison Smith: that sense you put up your feet is actually not
Dr. Allison Smith: supported by latter generations of people entering retirement. Also, what
Dr. Allison Smith: the research evidence tells us, staying connected and having social
Dr. Allison Smith: connections, whether you do that through volunteering, or you do
Dr. Allison Smith: that through the social groups that you naturally participate in
Dr. Allison Smith: has a lot of health and wellbeing benefits. There's actually
Dr. Allison Smith: some significant and hard science behind this, and that's why
Dr. Allison Smith: staying connected and volunteering is so important. We know through
Dr. Allison Smith: an extensive body and growing body of research literature that,
Dr. Allison Smith: staying socially connected is actually physically important. We know that
Dr. Allison Smith: social connections are really important for cognitive stimulation. It's not
Dr. Allison Smith: only important for staying physically active and getting out and
Dr. Allison Smith: about, but also mental stimulation. Also, humans are social beings,
Dr. Allison Smith: so actually exposure to others, it's almost built up in
Dr. Allison Smith: our DNA. We need others to really stay strong both
Dr. Allison Smith: physically, cognitively, but also for our immune system. Of course,
Dr. Allison Smith: I would speak about the benefits of volunteering, working for
Dr. Allison Smith: the Royal Voluntary Service. It's not only beneficial to yourself
Dr. Allison Smith: as far as health benefits, but also really beneficial to others.
Shirley Ballas: Is keeping fit and healthy important?
Dr. Allison Smith: I am glad you mentioned that Shirley, because things like
Dr. Allison Smith: physical activity incredibly important through the life course, but particularly
Dr. Allison Smith: important in later life. When you're approaching retirement or you're
Dr. Allison Smith: in retirement, it's important to visualize what you want to
Dr. Allison Smith: do. Maybe you've put off all of those things that
Dr. Allison Smith: you wanted to, but were too busy with family life
Dr. Allison Smith: and work to pursue. Now you have an opportunity in
Dr. Allison Smith: say the next phase of your life, that could be
Dr. Allison Smith: 20, 30, sometimes 40 years to really explore those activities
Dr. Allison Smith: or those interests that you never had time to explore before.
Chris Knight: Have a dance. My wife's a dance teacher and she's
Chris Knight: got students of all ages that are having a fantastic
Chris Knight: time keeping fit and keeping healthy. People tend to take
Chris Knight: a very plan- ful and structured approach to their careers
Chris Knight: and work lives, and we'd like them to do a
Chris Knight: bit of the same when they come to approach planning
Chris Knight: for their retired lives. In particular, first step, really to
Chris Knight: take control of your finances. You can do it, people
Chris Knight: then have the confidence to live life to the full.
Chris Knight: Keeping close to your social contacts and the networks is
Chris Knight: really, really important too. That's why we're so keen to support
Chris Knight: the Royal Voluntary Service and to help people to get
Chris Knight: out there and volunteer. Everyone has a contribution to make
Chris Knight: and we're all in this together. Reaching out to people
Chris Knight: in organizations you trust for support is really important and
Chris Knight: you're not alone.
Shirley Ballas: How important is the emotional side do you think?
Chris Knight: Oh, it's really important Shirley. Money is important, but most
Chris Knight: retirees tell us in our research that there are three
Chris Knight: other things that are equally as important. First one is
Chris Knight: living in a home that's right for you and where
Chris Knight: you feel safe. People who are able to stay throughout
Chris Knight: their retired lives at home are healthier and happier, and
Chris Knight: feel less of a burden on the NHS and others.
Chris Knight: Secondly, as we've talked about, staying healthy and having access
Chris Knight: to the care you need when you need that care.
Chris Knight: Thirdly and most importantly maybe, staying connected to friends and
Chris Knight: family, and feeling that you're making a contribution.
Shirley Ballas: How can people ensure they enjoy themselves as they get
Shirley Ballas: a little bit older?
Dr. Allison Smith: Just to say, I mean, while aging is inevitable, how
Dr. Allison Smith: we age is not. The perception around and the notions
Dr. Allison Smith: around aging is very much around a trajectory of decline.
Dr. Allison Smith: What people don't realize is that we have an incredible
Dr. Allison Smith: amount of control over how we age. Much of what
Dr. Allison Smith: we attribute down to aging, such as disease is actually
Dr. Allison Smith: preventable through some lifestyle choices. Whether that's being more physically
Dr. Allison Smith: active or enjoying such activities as volunteering or things you're
Dr. Allison Smith: really passionate about that give you a sense of purpose.
Dr. Allison Smith: It's never too late to make improvements that impact on
Dr. Allison Smith: your health and wellbeing. Retirement in later life is very
Dr. Allison Smith: different than previous generations, and there's so much more out
Dr. Allison Smith: there to enjoy and explore.
Shirley Ballas: Chris, both Collin and Tracy talked about plans to use
Shirley Ballas: their house to help fund their retirement. How can people
Shirley Ballas: do this?
Chris Knight: Well Shirley, there are a few ways they can do
Chris Knight: that. One thing might be to sell the house and
Chris Knight: move into a rented accommodation. Alternatively, people can downsize to
Chris Knight: a smaller house or a purpose built accommodation perhaps in
Chris Knight: their area. Or you could release some of the equity
Chris Knight: in your house to free up funds. A lifetime mortgage
Chris Knight: is a form of equity release. When you can release
Chris Knight: cash to yourself in like a lump sum or regular
Chris Knight: payments, you are effectively borrowing money from the future value
Chris Knight: of your house. In the meantime, you get to live
Chris Knight: there and enjoy it. You can pay the interest off
Chris Knight: like you do for a credit card, to keep down
Chris Knight: the cost. The important thing is you never own more
Chris Knight: than the value of your house, so you're never passing
Chris Knight: down debts to the next generation.
Shirley Ballas: Chris, what are the things you'd recommend that people start thinking about
Shirley Ballas: as they approach retirement age?
Chris Knight: Look, Shirley I think people should really try and take
Chris Knight: the time to engage with it. Research that we've done
Chris Knight: shows that people spend more time, believe it or not,
Chris Knight: choosing the car they're going to buy when they're retiring
Chris Knight: than they do actually planning their retirement finances. We say
Chris Knight: to people, " Do some work to bring all your pension
Chris Knight: pots and other things into one place. If not literally
Chris Knight: then at least into paper and try and figure out
Chris Knight: and think through what you need to spend in retirement
Chris Knight: and what you might like to spend money on. Think
Chris Knight: about how prepared you are if things don't pan out
Chris Knight: as you hope." You're going to receive, as you get
Chris Knight: close to retirement, lots of information, things like wake up
Chris Knight: packs from your pension providers. Have a look at them,
Chris Knight: go online, shop around and take up the offers of
Chris Knight: free advice there are out there. For example, from Pension
Chris Knight: Wise, which is a government backed organization, which gives everybody
Chris Knight: coming to retirement a free consultation, either over the phone
Chris Knight: or locally. Lots of things people can do to prepare.
Shirley Ballas: With your back in your 40s, what should you be
Shirley Ballas: thinking about? I think that the planning starts or should
Shirley Ballas: start much earlier in your life. In fact, I think
Shirley Ballas: it should be taught in schools. How about that?
Chris Knight: Yeah. If people start saving early, a little bit but
Chris Knight: often, that often really helps. When you get into your
Chris Knight: 40s, then some people do what they call as a
Chris Knight: midlife MOT and taking stock of where they are. First
Chris Knight: of all, do you still have debt? It might be
Chris Knight: the best thing to do is to pay off your
Chris Knight: debt, especially if it's credit card debt or maybe even
Chris Knight: student loan debt still these days, so sort your debt
Chris Knight: out first. Then yes, you really ought to be thinking
Chris Knight: about wealth and health and how long you really want
Chris Knight: to work and what you really want to do in
Chris Knight: retirement. To have that flexibility, it's better to start earlier than later.
Shirley Ballas: Allison, do you think there's middle ground for people who
Shirley Ballas: want to ease back on work without necessarily letting go
Shirley Ballas: of the safety net and social experience?
Dr. Allison Smith: Yeah, certainly. These days employers are much more flexible around
Dr. Allison Smith: their working arrangements, whether it's working part time or working
Dr. Allison Smith: condensed hours. Working from home, we've all experienced that quite
Dr. Allison Smith: significantly and people are diversifying their portfolio in many ways.
Dr. Allison Smith: Doing a range of things, that kind of job for
Dr. Allison Smith: life and one career has changed quite substantially. People might
Dr. Allison Smith: be doing multiple things, self- employed, consultancy work. There's much
Dr. Allison Smith: more built in flexibility in the labor market than there
Dr. Allison Smith: was in previous generations. To allow people to maybe step
Dr. Allison Smith: away because of care or maybe explore further education.
Shirley Ballas: Thank you Allison. Chris, we are in strange and difficult
Shirley Ballas: time now with the Coronavirus. Does this change how we
Shirley Ballas: should approach retirement? Or are the rules for retirement exactly
Shirley Ballas: the same?
Dr. Allison Smith: Well look, Shirley, these are difficult times. The first thing
Dr. Allison Smith: we say to people is, " Don't panic. Don't rush. Certainly
Dr. Allison Smith: don't rush to make what could be a really long-
Dr. Allison Smith: term decision, when in the short- term you're feeling kind
Dr. Allison Smith: of stressed or pressured." The fundamental rules are still there.
Dr. Allison Smith: The headlines are scary, but things might not be as
Dr. Allison Smith: bad as you think. Find out the facts about your
Dr. Allison Smith: situation from your provider and definitely a good time to
Dr. Allison Smith: talk to your financial advisor.
Shirley Ballas: Some great tips there from Chris and Allison, thank you.
Shirley Ballas: We've only just started our exploration of how you can
Shirley Ballas: live a more colorful retirement. Make sure you listen to
Shirley Ballas: our next episode by subscribing on your podcast listening platform.
Shirley Ballas: Next time I'll be meeting more amazing people, who are
Shirley Ballas: sharing their hopes, doubts and uncertainties for later life, as
Shirley Ballas: we talk more about how you can best make the
Shirley Ballas: shift from full time work.
Speaker 10: If people can gradually go into retirement, that helps them
Speaker 10: to have these hobbies building up around them.
Shirley Ballas: We'll hear from the glamorous Tricia Cusden on how she's
Shirley Ballas: combined rewirement with her own business, as well as the
Shirley Ballas: brilliant Emma Byron from Legal & General. You can find out
Shirley Ballas: more about retirement planning at legalandgeneral. com/ retirement. Thanks to
Shirley Ballas: all our brilliant rewirerees for chatting to me. In the
Shirley Ballas: meantime, keep it colorful. I'm Shirley Ballas and I'll catch
Shirley Ballas: you next time.