1 00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:04,079 Student 1: It is nice to have people around, definitely, to motivate you. 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,960 Student 2: That gives you kind of the comfort of " Oh, someone who's going through the same 3 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:07,770 Student 2: issue as me." 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,360 Student 3: It made me feel like we were all in the 5 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,400 Student 3: same boat, and we all felt the same. I didn't 6 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:13,620 Student 3: feel like I was just alone in the process. 7 00:00:13,830 --> 00:00:15,690 Student 4: And sometimes all it takes is one person to work 8 00:00:15,690 --> 00:00:17,309 Student 4: something slightly different, and then all of a sudden it all 9 00:00:17,309 --> 00:00:17,850 Student 4: clicks in your head. 10 00:00:17,850 --> 00:00:23,009 Krutika Adatia: Hello, I'm Krutika Adatia, and I'm a chartered accountant. I now 11 00:00:23,009 --> 00:00:26,850 Krutika Adatia: support accountancy students through their training. And as an educator, 12 00:00:27,030 --> 00:00:29,759 Krutika Adatia: I'm regularly up close and personal with some of the 13 00:00:29,759 --> 00:00:33,449 Krutika Adatia: common issues people face while studying for and sitting their 14 00:00:33,450 --> 00:00:37,320 Krutika Adatia: accountancy exams. So in this series for the ACCA, I'm 15 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,100 Krutika Adatia: chatting to experts about strategies we can all use when 16 00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:44,400 Krutika Adatia: facing some of life's challenges. And this week, we're looking 17 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,590 Krutika Adatia: at one of the key supports that many of us 18 00:00:46,650 --> 00:00:50,790 Krutika Adatia: instinctively turn to when we're facing obstacles in life. How are 19 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,459 Krutika Adatia: friends and family? What does it mean when we say 20 00:00:53,459 --> 00:00:57,360 Krutika Adatia: humans are social animals? How does having strong social networks 21 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,660 Krutika Adatia: help us accomplish tasks and deal with challenges? And if 22 00:01:00,660 --> 00:01:04,170 Krutika Adatia: we're feeling isolated, what steps can we take to improve 23 00:01:04,170 --> 00:01:08,518 Krutika Adatia: our social relationships and our sense of community? This is 24 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,789 Krutika Adatia: On Your Marks, because you'll never know until you try. 25 00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:16,350 Krutika Adatia: We hear it all the time, humans are social creatures, 26 00:01:16,620 --> 00:01:19,800 Krutika Adatia: and having a network and support system can make all 27 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,190 Krutika Adatia: the difference when we're struggling. For me personally, I find 28 00:01:23,190 --> 00:01:25,559 Krutika Adatia: it really difficult to talk about emotions and ask for 29 00:01:25,559 --> 00:01:28,440 Krutika Adatia: help when I'm having a hard time. When I was 30 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:32,190 Krutika Adatia: doing the equivalent strategic professional- level exams for ages, I 31 00:01:32,190 --> 00:01:35,310 Krutika Adatia: kept things bottled inside and got really stressed. It was 32 00:01:35,310 --> 00:01:38,609 Krutika Adatia: only later, when talking to other students, that I realized 33 00:01:38,610 --> 00:01:41,370 Krutika Adatia: we were all feeling the same way. So with me 34 00:01:41,370 --> 00:01:44,399 Krutika Adatia: today to talk about how our relationships can help us 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,419 Krutika Adatia: when we're facing tough challenges, I've got Dr. Anna Machin. 36 00:01:48,809 --> 00:01:52,110 Krutika Adatia: Anna is an evolutionary anthropologist who has spent her career 37 00:01:52,350 --> 00:01:56,429 Krutika Adatia: studying the science of close human relationships, including writing two 38 00:01:56,429 --> 00:01:59,520 Krutika Adatia: books on the subject. So, Anna, when we say humans 39 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:01,649 Krutika Adatia: are social creatures, what do we actually mean? 40 00:02:01,740 --> 00:02:04,859 Anna Machin: So what we really mean is, humans are cooperative species. 41 00:02:04,859 --> 00:02:07,860 Anna Machin: We need each other just to survive. So we've evolved 42 00:02:07,860 --> 00:02:10,500 Anna Machin: to need each other to help raise our children. If 43 00:02:10,500 --> 00:02:12,270 Anna Machin: you've ever got children in your life, you know how 44 00:02:12,270 --> 00:02:15,030 Anna Machin: hard that is. We need to cooperate to socially learn, 45 00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:16,919 Anna Machin: to learn from each other because there's so much to 46 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,410 Anna Machin: learn, and we need to cooperate just to get the 47 00:02:19,410 --> 00:02:21,089 Anna Machin: food we need, the water we need, the shelter we 48 00:02:21,089 --> 00:02:23,549 Anna Machin: need. So we need each other actually to do those 49 00:02:23,549 --> 00:02:27,120 Anna Machin: basic survival things. But beyond that, we need each other 50 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,540 Anna Machin: because the social connections that we build have a major, 51 00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:33,450 Anna Machin: major influence on your mental and physical health, on your 52 00:02:33,450 --> 00:02:36,719 Anna Machin: longevity, but also just on your life satisfaction. So we 53 00:02:36,719 --> 00:02:39,000 Anna Machin: have this visceral need to be with each other. 54 00:02:39,150 --> 00:02:41,549 Krutika Adatia: Well, you mentioned social learning, which we'll come onto because 55 00:02:41,549 --> 00:02:44,520 Krutika Adatia: I think that'll be particularly relevant for our listeners today. 56 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,820 Krutika Adatia: But can you just tell us why are these relationships 57 00:02:47,820 --> 00:02:49,320 Krutika Adatia: so important to us? 58 00:02:49,410 --> 00:02:52,620 Anna Machin: Because, at the most basic level, you wouldn't survive without 59 00:02:52,620 --> 00:02:55,079 Anna Machin: other people in your life. If you were a helpless 60 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,150 Anna Machin: baby and you're simply left to deal with that on 61 00:02:57,150 --> 00:02:58,889 Anna Machin: your own, you wouldn't get very far. So from the 62 00:02:58,889 --> 00:03:01,709 Anna Machin: very moment we're born, we are relying on other people 63 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,410 Anna Machin: to raise us, to teach us, to keep us safe 64 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,230 Anna Machin: all the way through our lives. And even if, as 65 00:03:07,230 --> 00:03:09,270 Anna Machin: an adult, you think you're an island and you can 66 00:03:09,270 --> 00:03:11,460 Anna Machin: cope on your own, if you just think of the 67 00:03:11,460 --> 00:03:13,799 Anna Machin: number of people you cooperate with, even if you actually 68 00:03:13,799 --> 00:03:15,660 Anna Machin: don't really know them, let's say you get a supermarket 69 00:03:15,660 --> 00:03:19,230 Anna Machin: delivery or you watch something on the telly that's teaching 70 00:03:19,230 --> 00:03:21,690 Anna Machin: you about your health, whatever it might be, you are relying on 71 00:03:21,690 --> 00:03:24,419 Anna Machin: other humans to give you that information to pick and 72 00:03:24,419 --> 00:03:26,460 Anna Machin: pack that food and deliver it to your door. So, 73 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,169 Anna Machin: as a human, you actually cannot survive without having some 74 00:03:31,169 --> 00:03:34,800 Anna Machin: source of cooperative relationship with somebody else. But beyond that, 75 00:03:35,070 --> 00:03:38,010 Anna Machin: actually, most of us do have very, very close social 76 00:03:38,010 --> 00:03:40,740 Anna Machin: relationships based on love, for example, with our family, with 77 00:03:40,740 --> 00:03:44,700 Anna Machin: our friends, with our partners going forward. So, as a 78 00:03:44,700 --> 00:03:47,610 Anna Machin: species, we, actually, literally do not exist without that. 79 00:03:47,700 --> 00:03:50,729 Krutika Adatia: And so does that mean from the students, let's say 80 00:03:50,730 --> 00:03:53,730 Krutika Adatia: who are studying, if they had a study buddy, for 81 00:03:53,730 --> 00:03:58,020 Krutika Adatia: instance, would that be more beneficial with the social learning aspect? 82 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,870 Anna Machin: Absolutely. I think, I'm not an accountant, but I imagine 83 00:04:00,870 --> 00:04:03,540 Anna Machin: what you are learning is probably pretty complex. And because 84 00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:05,759 Anna Machin: it's complex, we will approach it in different ways. People 85 00:04:05,759 --> 00:04:07,920 Anna Machin: learn in different ways, and people bring different things out 86 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,289 Anna Machin: of what they're learning. So we know that actually, if 87 00:04:10,289 --> 00:04:13,020 Anna Machin: you learn as a group, it's much, much easier because 88 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:15,720 Anna Machin: you see different perspectives, you suggest different ways of learning something, 89 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,900 Anna Machin: but also just simply being in that group lowers your 90 00:04:18,900 --> 00:04:21,779 Anna Machin: stress levels. And we know that you learn much, much 91 00:04:21,779 --> 00:04:24,509 Anna Machin: better if you have lower levels of the stress hormone 92 00:04:24,509 --> 00:04:27,719 Anna Machin: cortisol in your system. And simply by being with those people, 93 00:04:27,719 --> 00:04:30,659 Anna Machin: maybe having a laugh, supporting each other, you're producing lots 94 00:04:30,660 --> 00:04:33,810 Anna Machin: of obviously social hormones, and social hormones are really, really good at 95 00:04:33,810 --> 00:04:34,411 Anna Machin: counteracting cortisol. 96 00:04:34,411 --> 00:04:37,260 Krutika Adatia: And that's great because you've referenced hormones there. So, I was going 97 00:04:37,260 --> 00:04:39,688 Krutika Adatia: to ask you, what's actually happening in our brains and 98 00:04:39,690 --> 00:04:42,238 Krutika Adatia: what chemicals are being released when we're socializing? 99 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,700 Anna Machin: So there are three key chemicals that are involved when we 100 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:48,119 Anna Machin: interact with other people that oxytocin, dopamine, and beta- endorphin. 101 00:04:48,119 --> 00:04:50,040 Anna Machin: And I think most people have heard of oxytocin. It's 102 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,860 Anna Machin: known as the cuddle hormone, but actually it's released in 103 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,220 Anna Machin: any situation when we're interacting with another person. It's released 104 00:04:56,220 --> 00:04:59,309 Anna Machin: most strongly through touch, but it can also be released 105 00:04:59,309 --> 00:05:02,070 Anna Machin: simply by being in proximity to someone. And oxytocin is 106 00:05:02,070 --> 00:05:04,799 Anna Machin: really clever because what it does is it actually quietens 107 00:05:04,799 --> 00:05:07,140 Anna Machin: the fear center of your brain, which really helps if 108 00:05:07,140 --> 00:05:09,659 Anna Machin: you're nervous or if you're stressed, and it makes you much, 109 00:05:09,660 --> 00:05:11,729 Anna Machin: much more confident. And that's why it's known as sort 110 00:05:11,730 --> 00:05:14,789 Anna Machin: of the social bonding hormone. It makes us more confident 111 00:05:14,820 --> 00:05:17,639 Anna Machin: about talking to other people. And then we have dopamine, 112 00:05:17,639 --> 00:05:22,409 Anna Machin: and dopamine's really great, because that's your hormone of motivation. So when you are with people, 113 00:05:22,410 --> 00:05:24,810 Anna Machin: you get a lovely hit of dopamine, and you are just generally 114 00:05:24,810 --> 00:05:27,660 Anna Machin: more motivated to do things in your life. So that's 115 00:05:27,660 --> 00:05:30,089 Anna Machin: why sometimes, if we haven't seen people for a bit, 116 00:05:30,510 --> 00:05:32,490 Anna Machin: we kind of think that a sofa is a safe 117 00:05:32,490 --> 00:05:35,010 Anna Machin: place to be. But actually, once you're out with those people, 118 00:05:35,010 --> 00:05:37,469 Anna Machin: you suddenly feel that real kick of wanting to achieve something. 119 00:05:37,469 --> 00:05:39,870 Anna Machin: So we get dopamine as well. It's a general reward chemical. 120 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,459 Anna Machin: And then we get sort of the king of the 121 00:05:41,459 --> 00:05:44,370 Anna Machin: bonding hormone. Now that's beta- endorphin. And beta- endorphin is 122 00:05:44,370 --> 00:05:47,279 Anna Machin: an opiate, so it's a little bit like heroin or morphine, 123 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,650 Anna Machin: but it's produced by your body, and it makes you 124 00:05:49,650 --> 00:05:53,279 Anna Machin: feel really euphoric. It makes you feel really warm, really calm, 125 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,339 Anna Machin: and actually just really open to being with other people. 126 00:05:56,700 --> 00:05:58,199 Anna Machin: But in a situation where you might be with a 127 00:05:58,199 --> 00:06:02,640 Anna Machin: group of fellow students, for example, it's really good because 128 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,549 Anna Machin: it's released by lots of different behaviors that we do 129 00:06:05,550 --> 00:06:08,820 Anna Machin: in social groups. So, for example, by laughing, by chatting, 130 00:06:08,820 --> 00:06:12,330 Anna Machin: by just touching somebody's arm. So probably if you're studying 131 00:06:12,330 --> 00:06:13,859 Anna Machin: in a group and maybe you have a little bit 132 00:06:13,860 --> 00:06:15,178 Anna Machin: of a laugh while you're doing it, you're getting a 133 00:06:15,178 --> 00:06:17,969 Anna Machin: lovely hit of beta- endorphin, and all of those are 134 00:06:17,969 --> 00:06:20,609 Anna Machin: going to really work against any stress you feel in 135 00:06:20,610 --> 00:06:22,800 Anna Machin: your body or any cortisol that's in your system. 136 00:06:23,100 --> 00:06:27,120 Krutika Adatia: I love that you have these amazing chemical reactions happening 137 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,160 Krutika Adatia: in your brain that just make you feel great and 138 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:32,609 Krutika Adatia: also help you reduce stress. It sounds like being around 139 00:06:32,610 --> 00:06:34,890 Krutika Adatia: people is a thing we should be doing more of. 140 00:06:35,070 --> 00:06:35,878 Anna Machin: Absolutely, yeah. 141 00:06:36,180 --> 00:06:38,790 Krutika Adatia: And I suppose we live in a society now where 142 00:06:38,790 --> 00:06:41,190 Krutika Adatia: we have so much technology. I know I have my 143 00:06:41,190 --> 00:06:43,529 Krutika Adatia: phone, I have my tablet, my laptop, so we tend 144 00:06:43,529 --> 00:06:47,490 Krutika Adatia: to communicate more through devices now. So I'm just wondering 145 00:06:47,490 --> 00:06:49,830 Krutika Adatia: with these amazing chemicals that you are referring to, and you 146 00:06:49,830 --> 00:06:52,289 Krutika Adatia: mentioned touch earlier as well, obviously, I can't touch anyone 147 00:06:52,289 --> 00:06:57,029 Krutika Adatia: through my screen, not yet anyway. Is it achieving the 148 00:06:57,029 --> 00:06:59,460 Krutika Adatia: same effect by communicating virtually? 149 00:06:59,460 --> 00:07:03,359 Anna Machin: It really depends on what medium you use. So no, 150 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,819 Anna Machin: if you're simply chatting to someone on a WhatsApp group or 151 00:07:05,820 --> 00:07:08,610 Anna Machin: you are texting them, for example, I'm afraid not, no. 152 00:07:09,059 --> 00:07:13,650 Anna Machin: These hormones are generally released by your senses, by your 153 00:07:13,650 --> 00:07:16,860 Anna Machin: senses being stimulated. So, at the very least, you need 154 00:07:16,860 --> 00:07:19,260 Anna Machin: to hear someone's voice. If you can see them as 155 00:07:19,260 --> 00:07:21,150 Anna Machin: well, then you're also getting that visual input. So what 156 00:07:21,150 --> 00:07:22,559 Anna Machin: I say to people is, if you can't be in 157 00:07:22,559 --> 00:07:24,540 Anna Machin: a room with somebody, the best thing you can do 158 00:07:24,660 --> 00:07:27,209 Anna Machin: is set up a video call because then you're going 159 00:07:27,210 --> 00:07:29,969 Anna Machin: to get the most sensory input that you can, and 160 00:07:29,969 --> 00:07:32,760 Anna Machin: therefore you will get a release of these hormones. It's 161 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,860 Anna Machin: not going to be as powerful as it is if you are 162 00:07:35,010 --> 00:07:37,440 Anna Machin: in the room with somebody, because that's how our brain 163 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:40,170 Anna Machin: has evolved to be social. But at least if you 164 00:07:40,170 --> 00:07:43,020 Anna Machin: get some visual stimulation, you get some auditory stimulation, you 165 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:45,090 Anna Machin: can see the person moving, you can hear their voice, 166 00:07:45,299 --> 00:07:47,129 Anna Machin: then you are going to get at least something. So 167 00:07:47,129 --> 00:07:49,680 Anna Machin: if you're going to set up a learning group, if 168 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,619 Anna Machin: you can bear being on the screen, then try and 169 00:07:52,620 --> 00:07:54,210 Anna Machin: make it like a Teams meeting or a Zoom meeting 170 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:54,810 Anna Machin: or something like that. 171 00:07:55,110 --> 00:07:57,509 Krutika Adatia: Oh, wow. Because, actually, I'm just thinking about COVID and 172 00:07:57,510 --> 00:08:01,679 Krutika Adatia: how that forced everyone to be on Zoom meetings endlessly 173 00:08:01,679 --> 00:08:04,859 Krutika Adatia: and transition to conference calls. I know I struggled with 174 00:08:04,859 --> 00:08:08,130 Krutika Adatia: that initially, but it's great to know that having a visual, 175 00:08:08,190 --> 00:08:10,980 Krutika Adatia: if it's a Zoom call that can still help. And 176 00:08:10,980 --> 00:08:14,040 Krutika Adatia: just sticking with the theme of technology, how do you 177 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,430 Krutika Adatia: think that's actually influenced relationships in general? 178 00:08:17,610 --> 00:08:20,190 Anna Machin: It's weird. In one sense, it's good. I think it's 179 00:08:20,190 --> 00:08:23,160 Anna Machin: allowed, particularly those relationships which are long distance, to be 180 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,340 Anna Machin: easier to manage, so you can get in touch with 181 00:08:26,340 --> 00:08:27,630 Anna Machin: people who are the other side of the world so 182 00:08:27,630 --> 00:08:31,410 Anna Machin: much easier now, and that's really great. But it has 183 00:08:31,410 --> 00:08:35,189 Anna Machin: been a really big downside. I think we are... As 184 00:08:35,190 --> 00:08:37,290 Anna Machin: humans, we love shiny new stuff. So we got this 185 00:08:37,290 --> 00:08:40,858 Anna Machin: shiny new tools of being able to communicate with our 186 00:08:40,859 --> 00:08:43,559 Anna Machin: phones, and we kind of dived in, and maybe we 187 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,340 Anna Machin: thought that they were able to replace completely seeing people 188 00:08:47,340 --> 00:08:49,980 Anna Machin: in person and we could maintain our relationships just by 189 00:08:49,980 --> 00:08:52,439 Anna Machin: doing that. We know from studies, that's not true. If 190 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,958 Anna Machin: you just maintain a relationship in that way, it's going 191 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,089 Anna Machin: to decay much, much faster than it would if you, 192 00:08:57,299 --> 00:09:00,389 Anna Machin: for example, tried to see someone in person. So because you are 193 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,450 Anna Machin: not getting the bonding hormones in most of the mediums, 194 00:09:03,630 --> 00:09:05,760 Anna Machin: we do see this degradation in the quality of the 195 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:09,570 Anna Machin: relationship. You are not getting the positive feedback that you 196 00:09:09,570 --> 00:09:12,120 Anna Machin: get from actually seeing somebody in person, and that's going 197 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,179 Anna Machin: to affect your mental health in particular. So what we 198 00:09:15,179 --> 00:09:18,029 Anna Machin: say to people is use them as a tool. They're 199 00:09:18,029 --> 00:09:20,368 Anna Machin: good as an organizing tool. They're good as... When you 200 00:09:20,370 --> 00:09:21,690 Anna Machin: want to talk to a whole group of people, they're 201 00:09:21,690 --> 00:09:25,110 Anna Machin: really, really helpful. But particularly those really intimate one- to- 202 00:09:25,110 --> 00:09:28,770 Anna Machin: one relationships, they're not so great at managing those. And 203 00:09:29,250 --> 00:09:31,380 Anna Machin: if you can be in the room with somebody, then 204 00:09:31,380 --> 00:09:34,439 Anna Machin: really, that's going to be much more valuable to you than 205 00:09:34,770 --> 00:09:36,269 Anna Machin: just sending a WhatsApp or something like that. 206 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:38,370 Krutika Adatia: Well, that's great to know because I'm just thinking about 207 00:09:38,370 --> 00:09:41,970 Krutika Adatia: social media as well, and how certainly for the generation 208 00:09:41,970 --> 00:09:44,909 Krutika Adatia: now that WhatsApp is the way that they do communicate 209 00:09:44,910 --> 00:09:46,980 Krutika Adatia: and we see a lot of students trying to set 210 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:49,649 Krutika Adatia: up WhatsApp study groups or we have Facebook study groups. 211 00:09:49,980 --> 00:09:52,708 Krutika Adatia: So would the advice here be try and keep it face- to- 212 00:09:52,708 --> 00:09:53,999 Krutika Adatia: face if possible? 213 00:09:54,330 --> 00:09:56,670 Anna Machin: Yeah, I mean, if you can, I understand that can 214 00:09:56,670 --> 00:10:00,598 Anna Machin: be logistically quite difficult if you can keep it face- to- face, because, 215 00:10:00,750 --> 00:10:03,240 Anna Machin: believe me, you will get much more of a boost 216 00:10:03,570 --> 00:10:05,850 Anna Machin: from doing that than you would even on a Zoom call. 217 00:10:06,059 --> 00:10:09,208 Anna Machin: But if you can't then, if you can bear it, 218 00:10:09,210 --> 00:10:11,159 Anna Machin: and I know we all get uncomfortable on Zoom calls, 219 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,660 Anna Machin: we spend our whole time looking at ourselves and thinking, 220 00:10:13,170 --> 00:10:16,410 Anna Machin: but if you can bear it, then try and do 221 00:10:16,410 --> 00:10:19,200 Anna Machin: it with a visual medium and being able to hear 222 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:22,889 Anna Machin: that person as well, because otherwise, whilst you are getting 223 00:10:22,889 --> 00:10:25,710 Anna Machin: support in a very practical way on a WhatsApp group, 224 00:10:25,860 --> 00:10:28,919 Anna Machin: you are not getting that support for your mental health, and 225 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,870 Anna Machin: that's really the benefit of social interaction. 226 00:10:31,140 --> 00:10:34,319 Krutika Adatia: I hear you maybe thinking about voice notes then on 227 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,199 Krutika Adatia: WhatsApp as well, that could potentially be now we can 228 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,819 Krutika Adatia: send a quick little video note even. 229 00:10:38,970 --> 00:10:42,539 Anna Machin: Absolutely. Even something like that is better than simply relying 230 00:10:42,540 --> 00:10:43,050 Anna Machin: on text. 231 00:10:43,259 --> 00:10:46,439 Krutika Adatia: Noted. And actually, whilst we stick with technology I just want to ask about 232 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,250 Krutika Adatia: artificial intelligence, I feel like it's so mainstream at the moment. 233 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:54,510 Krutika Adatia: And just thinking about tools like ChatGPT, what's your sort 234 00:10:54,510 --> 00:10:58,679 Krutika Adatia: of views and opinions on artificial intelligence and how that's 235 00:10:59,429 --> 00:11:01,110 Krutika Adatia: affecting human relationships? 236 00:11:01,410 --> 00:11:05,939 Anna Machin: In my sphere, we are nervous about artificial intelligence because 237 00:11:05,940 --> 00:11:08,400 Anna Machin: my area of work is very much about the benefits 238 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,939 Anna Machin: of true human social connection. And studies have shown that 239 00:11:11,940 --> 00:11:15,000 Anna Machin: if we get somebody, for example, to interact with a 240 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,659 Anna Machin: humanoid robot, so something that even looks reasonably human, the 241 00:11:18,660 --> 00:11:20,848 Anna Machin: areas of the brain which light up when we interact 242 00:11:20,849 --> 00:11:23,759 Anna Machin: with a human, which is your prefrontal cortex, don't activate 243 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,059 Anna Machin: at all. So, we do not recognize this being as 244 00:11:27,059 --> 00:11:29,790 Anna Machin: being human. Now, if I gave you a dog to 245 00:11:29,790 --> 00:11:32,400 Anna Machin: interact with, that would light up. So you get even 246 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,880 Anna Machin: less of the social benefits from that than you would 247 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,389 Anna Machin: from hugging your dog. So it concerns us because if 248 00:11:39,389 --> 00:11:42,838 Anna Machin: we're going to replace human interaction with AI interaction, again, 249 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:45,630 Anna Machin: you are not going to get what ultimately is the 250 00:11:45,630 --> 00:11:48,420 Anna Machin: benefit of social interaction, which is all those lovely chemicals 251 00:11:48,570 --> 00:11:51,088 Anna Machin: and that really great impact on your health. So for 252 00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:53,820 Anna Machin: us in our particular area of research, it's very, very 253 00:11:53,820 --> 00:11:58,679 Anna Machin: concerning that people are suggesting that an AI- based bot, 254 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,809 Anna Machin: or whatever it might be, might be able to replace 255 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:04,860 Anna Machin: true human connection because the human brain has been evolving 256 00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:09,270 Anna Machin: for millions of years to be a social tool. And we 257 00:12:09,270 --> 00:12:11,279 Anna Machin: certainly don't believe that you can program that into a 258 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,799 Anna Machin: robot. I mean, I interviewed someone for one of my books who 259 00:12:13,799 --> 00:12:17,879 Anna Machin: said the current social robots can't even do what your 260 00:12:17,879 --> 00:12:18,510 Anna Machin: dog can do. 261 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:19,560 Krutika Adatia: Oh, wow. 262 00:12:19,770 --> 00:12:23,400 Anna Machin: So we're a long way off anything like empathy or 263 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,710 Anna Machin: trust, or reciprocity, all those things that are associated with 264 00:12:25,710 --> 00:12:28,380 Anna Machin: social interaction ever being programmed into a robot. 265 00:12:28,500 --> 00:12:31,980 Krutika Adatia: And I do keep hearing that artificial intelligence can't really 266 00:12:32,099 --> 00:12:34,799 Krutika Adatia: think for itself like a human does. It's just pulling 267 00:12:34,799 --> 00:12:39,360 Krutika Adatia: information from lots of data that it has in its system. 268 00:12:39,870 --> 00:12:42,300 Krutika Adatia: And that's probably not the technical way to describe it, 269 00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:46,050 Krutika Adatia: but you get the point I'm making! Earlier, you mentioned the hormones that 270 00:12:46,170 --> 00:12:48,780 Krutika Adatia: are being released in the body when we have these 271 00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:53,338 Krutika Adatia: social connections. So how do relationships then help us face 272 00:12:53,369 --> 00:12:56,520 Krutika Adatia: challenges or help us overcome challenges that we might encounter? 273 00:12:56,550 --> 00:12:59,700 Krutika Adatia: I'm just thinking about my own personal experience when I 274 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:02,370 Krutika Adatia: was struggling with exams and I felt a real overwhelm, 275 00:13:02,370 --> 00:13:05,790 Krutika Adatia: especially when I was studying, that actually speaking up ultimately 276 00:13:05,790 --> 00:13:09,150 Krutika Adatia: did help. And it is that saying of a problem 277 00:13:09,150 --> 00:13:11,578 Krutika Adatia: shared is a problem halved. So can you talk to 278 00:13:11,580 --> 00:13:13,980 Krutika Adatia: us a little bit about how relationships help with challenges? 279 00:13:14,309 --> 00:13:16,319 Anna Machin: They help in various ways. So if we look at 280 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,260 Anna Machin: people's... We call it a social network. So the group 281 00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:20,729 Anna Machin: of people around you who support you are known as 282 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:23,639 Anna Machin: your social network. And if we see how people are 283 00:13:23,639 --> 00:13:26,969 Anna Machin: embedded in that social network, first of all, just the practical help. So 284 00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:29,098 Anna Machin: silly things like if you're really tired at the end 285 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:31,078 Anna Machin: of the day studying, someone cooking you a meal or 286 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,838 Anna Machin: somebody, I don't know, doing your washing, or whatever it 287 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,260 Anna Machin: might be, you get just general practical help from being 288 00:13:37,260 --> 00:13:39,179 Anna Machin: in a social network. And that's really, really important. You 289 00:13:39,179 --> 00:13:41,429 Anna Machin: get help from, yes, if you say sharing a problem 290 00:13:41,429 --> 00:13:43,799 Anna Machin: with a fellow student and getting a different perspective on 291 00:13:43,799 --> 00:13:46,588 Anna Machin: it, but the real benefit is the fact that you 292 00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:49,049 Anna Machin: are going to get this amazing health benefit from being 293 00:13:49,049 --> 00:13:53,520 Anna Machin: in that situation. So even if it's nothing to do 294 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,190 Anna Machin: with being in a learning group, if, while you are studying, you 295 00:13:56,190 --> 00:13:58,500 Anna Machin: take a break and you simply just spend some time 296 00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:00,689 Anna Machin: with somebody you love, whether it be family, friends, whatever 297 00:14:00,690 --> 00:14:03,690 Anna Machin: it might be, you are going to get a lot 298 00:14:03,719 --> 00:14:06,540 Anna Machin: of the lovely bonding chemicals. They are going to relax 299 00:14:06,540 --> 00:14:07,860 Anna Machin: your body, they're going to do a lot for your 300 00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:10,530 Anna Machin: mental health. They underpin your immune system, for example. So 301 00:14:10,740 --> 00:14:12,809 Anna Machin: you're much less likely to get ill at that critical 302 00:14:12,809 --> 00:14:14,309 Anna Machin: point when you're trying to study and you're trying to 303 00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:17,098 Anna Machin: work towards an exam. So those are the benefits of 304 00:14:17,099 --> 00:14:19,200 Anna Machin: being social. It underpins your health, it's going to make 305 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,019 Anna Machin: you feel amazing. You're going to get that social learning 306 00:14:22,020 --> 00:14:24,119 Anna Machin: support from other people. They might even be able to 307 00:14:24,119 --> 00:14:26,400 Anna Machin: teach you something you don't know. And ultimately, just the 308 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,800 Anna Machin: practical stuff that yeah, there's somebody, maybe at home or 309 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,930 Anna Machin: a neighbor, or anybody who's just going to do those 310 00:14:30,930 --> 00:14:33,210 Anna Machin: little things in life that make it easier for you 311 00:14:33,210 --> 00:14:34,411 Anna Machin: to focus on what you need to focus on. 312 00:14:34,411 --> 00:14:37,500 Krutika Adatia: I love that you mentioned that you can have somebody 313 00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:39,299 Krutika Adatia: maybe helping you out in the house to cook you a 314 00:14:39,299 --> 00:14:41,820 Krutika Adatia: meal or something. I know, when I was at university, 315 00:14:41,820 --> 00:14:44,250 Krutika Adatia: I often used to love coming back home, especially during 316 00:14:44,250 --> 00:14:47,821 Krutika Adatia: the revision period, because my mom would do my laundry and she's got for me. 317 00:14:47,821 --> 00:14:47,822 Anna Machin: Yeah, exactly. 318 00:14:47,822 --> 00:14:50,640 Krutika Adatia: And it's little things like that that really do help and 319 00:14:51,330 --> 00:14:53,970 Krutika Adatia: just help you focus on the studies, I guess, like you say. 320 00:14:53,970 --> 00:14:54,420 Anna Machin: Absolutely. Yeah. 321 00:14:55,049 --> 00:14:57,270 Krutika Adatia: Just circling back to a point we made earlier about 322 00:14:57,270 --> 00:15:00,239 Krutika Adatia: technology and social media, which is obviously so rife right 323 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,020 Krutika Adatia: now in society, everyone uses it. There's also that feeling 324 00:15:04,020 --> 00:15:08,040 Krutika Adatia: of individuals feeling more isolated, although it's making us feel 325 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:13,290 Krutika Adatia: more connected, are we actually really more connected? So what 326 00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:15,299 Krutika Adatia: happens when we feel isolated? 327 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,029 Anna Machin: So what's happening when you feel isolated is several things, 328 00:15:18,150 --> 00:15:20,700 Anna Machin: because when we look at social connection, there is the 329 00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:23,940 Anna Machin: neurochemical basis of social connection, but there's also the psychological basis 330 00:15:23,940 --> 00:15:28,650 Anna Machin: of social connection. So loneliness is a psychological condition, and 331 00:15:28,650 --> 00:15:30,749 Anna Machin: as humans, and I think we all realized it during 332 00:15:30,780 --> 00:15:34,379 Anna Machin: COVID. First of all, a lot of people's mental health 333 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,689 Anna Machin: suffered, but also, I don't know whether you experienced it, 334 00:15:36,690 --> 00:15:41,460 Anna Machin: I certainly did. You actually had a physical craving to 335 00:15:41,460 --> 00:15:44,700 Anna Machin: be with the people you loved, and that underpins some forms 336 00:15:44,700 --> 00:15:48,150 Anna Machin: of loneliness. But that is actually because you are not getting 337 00:15:48,570 --> 00:15:53,070 Anna Machin: that nurturing neurochemistry from being with them. When we don't 338 00:15:53,219 --> 00:15:56,130 Anna Machin: get that, we actually go into opiate withdrawal. Now, opiate... 339 00:15:56,370 --> 00:15:59,070 Anna Machin: Because beta- endorphin is an opiate in the same way 340 00:15:59,070 --> 00:16:01,500 Anna Machin: that if you can become addicted to morphine, you actually 341 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:03,270 Anna Machin: become addicted to the people you're in love with because 342 00:16:03,270 --> 00:16:04,679 Anna Machin: when you're with them, you get a hit of beta- 343 00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:07,740 Anna Machin: endorphin. When you're away from them, you go into withdrawal. 344 00:16:07,740 --> 00:16:10,379 Anna Machin: And that's a very simple mechanism that keeps this together. But 345 00:16:10,379 --> 00:16:13,140 Anna Machin: when you actually can't physically be with the people that 346 00:16:13,230 --> 00:16:16,739 Anna Machin: are your source of opiates, it becomes very painful. It 347 00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:21,510 Anna Machin: becomes painful psychologically, but it also becomes painful, actually, physiologically, 348 00:16:21,510 --> 00:16:25,830 Anna Machin: because beta- endorphin underpins your pain system. So all those 349 00:16:25,830 --> 00:16:28,830 Anna Machin: aches and pains that you are kind of used to in life 350 00:16:28,830 --> 00:16:30,690 Anna Machin: have been covered up because you're in a relationship suddenly 351 00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:33,930 Anna Machin: reappear. So you've got psychological withdrawal going on, and you've 352 00:16:33,930 --> 00:16:37,890 Anna Machin: also got physiological withdrawal. And that's why loneliness, isolation can 353 00:16:37,890 --> 00:16:42,689 Anna Machin: feel so incredibly heavy, so incredibly painful because you are actually going 354 00:16:42,690 --> 00:16:47,879 Anna Machin: through this major chemical withdrawal experience. And because we are so 355 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:50,250 Anna Machin: used to having people in our lives, we actually subsume 356 00:16:50,250 --> 00:16:54,330 Anna Machin: people into our identity. So I don't know how you describe yourself, but 357 00:16:54,510 --> 00:16:56,639 Anna Machin: I'm an anthropologist, and I'm a keen guard. I don't 358 00:16:56,639 --> 00:16:59,010 Anna Machin: like cooking. But actually, if I was to define myself 359 00:16:59,099 --> 00:17:04,080 Anna Machin: really it's mostly by my relationships. So I'm a sister, I'm 360 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,050 Anna Machin: a daughter, I'm a mum, I'm a wife, I'm a 361 00:17:07,050 --> 00:17:10,050 Anna Machin: dog owner. And those are all relationships. And when we 362 00:17:10,050 --> 00:17:14,010 Anna Machin: don't see the people who are in our world, actually, 363 00:17:14,010 --> 00:17:16,859 Anna Machin: part of our identity disappears. And that, again, can be 364 00:17:16,859 --> 00:17:20,400 Anna Machin: quite hard to deal with. So whilst we think we're 365 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,299 Anna Machin: connecting on social media because we're not actually doing it 366 00:17:24,299 --> 00:17:26,130 Anna Machin: the way our brains evolved to do it, which is 367 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,340 Anna Machin: in the room, you're not truly, as far as your 368 00:17:29,340 --> 00:17:32,580 Anna Machin: brain is concerned, connecting at all. It doesn't understand screens, 369 00:17:32,580 --> 00:17:36,420 Anna Machin: it doesn't understand text, writing evolved about 4, 000 years ago. 370 00:17:36,420 --> 00:17:40,170 Anna Machin: So it's an evolutionary time. It's nothing. And I think 371 00:17:40,170 --> 00:17:42,960 Anna Machin: that's why, even though we think we have 500 friends 372 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,960 Anna Machin: on Facebook, we can feel very, very lonely. 373 00:17:47,310 --> 00:17:49,980 Krutika Adatia: And that's really interesting to know because you sort of 374 00:17:49,980 --> 00:17:53,940 Krutika Adatia: mentioned the point about during COVID, and I felt like 375 00:17:53,940 --> 00:17:57,089 Krutika Adatia: during COVID I turned to technology a lot, and actually 376 00:17:57,089 --> 00:17:59,129 Krutika Adatia: that made me feel more empty. And there was a 377 00:17:59,129 --> 00:18:01,859 Krutika Adatia: point where I just had Zoom fatigue. I was doing 378 00:18:01,859 --> 00:18:05,340 Krutika Adatia: birthday parties on Zoom, and you are doing FaceTime calls, and I'm 379 00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:06,960 Krutika Adatia: like, God damn it, I just want to see my 380 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,060 Krutika Adatia: family now. I just want to see my friends. So 381 00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:10,201 Krutika Adatia: yeah, it's interesting that you- 382 00:18:10,201 --> 00:18:12,090 Anna Machin: Well, also, I think part of that is because when 383 00:18:12,090 --> 00:18:15,570 Anna Machin: your brain doesn't understand the medium of Zoom, it doesn't 384 00:18:15,570 --> 00:18:18,329 Anna Machin: understand screens, it doesn't understand this thing in front of 385 00:18:18,330 --> 00:18:21,000 Anna Machin: it. And so it's having to work incredibly hard, even 386 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,879 Anna Machin: though it's taking in sensory information. Whilst you're an absolute 387 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,440 Anna Machin: king or queen at sensory information in person, I'm taking 388 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,080 Anna Machin: in so much information from you, my brain is chartering 389 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,719 Anna Machin: away and spitting out lots of stuff that's really helping 390 00:18:33,719 --> 00:18:36,630 Anna Machin: me. It is much harder for it to do that 391 00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:38,250 Anna Machin: on Zoom. So it's actually having to work very, very 392 00:18:38,250 --> 00:18:41,158 Anna Machin: hard, and that's why you feel tireder because, cognitively, you 393 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,468 Anna Machin: are tireder because you're having to work so hard. 394 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,400 Krutika Adatia: I definitely struggle with picking up on cues when I'm 395 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,669 Krutika Adatia: on Zoom. So I'm glad that you've kind of validated 396 00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:53,879 Krutika Adatia: that it's not me, it's my brain's just not able 397 00:18:53,879 --> 00:18:56,908 Krutika Adatia: to deal with it as best as if it was in a face- to- 398 00:18:56,910 --> 00:19:00,119 Krutika Adatia: face conversation. So then, just coming back to, obviously, we 399 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,750 Krutika Adatia: know isolation isn't great for our body and mind. What 400 00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:05,908 Krutika Adatia: can people do when they're feeling isolated? 401 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,009 Anna Machin: Obviously, the easiest thing to do is reach out and 402 00:19:08,009 --> 00:19:10,138 Anna Machin: spend some time with somebody, but some people find that 403 00:19:10,138 --> 00:19:12,750 Anna Machin: very hard. Some of us are more sociable than others. 404 00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:16,978 Anna Machin: What we say is, if you can't be social for 405 00:19:16,980 --> 00:19:19,020 Anna Machin: whatever reason, what we try to do then is ask 406 00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:22,619 Anna Machin: you to do behaviors which mimic the neurochemistry released when 407 00:19:22,619 --> 00:19:24,870 Anna Machin: you're social. So there are ways you can, for example, 408 00:19:25,109 --> 00:19:27,660 Anna Machin: release dopamine. There are ways you can release beta- endorphin 409 00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:30,658 Anna Machin: without actually being with somebody else. So dopamine is your general 410 00:19:30,690 --> 00:19:34,020 Anna Machin: reward chemical. So anything that you get that sensation of 411 00:19:34,020 --> 00:19:37,290 Anna Machin: enjoyment from has released dopamine. So even if it's eating 412 00:19:37,290 --> 00:19:40,138 Anna Machin: a tub of ice cream and you feel great, that's dopamine. 413 00:19:40,290 --> 00:19:41,220 Krutika Adatia: Sounds like my kind of thing. 414 00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:44,220 Anna Machin: Yeah, exactly. Or hugging a puppy, whatever it might be. So 415 00:19:44,730 --> 00:19:47,160 Anna Machin: you can produce dopamine by just finding something that you 416 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:52,050 Anna Machin: enjoy doing. Beta- endorphin is actually reasonably easy to produce 417 00:19:52,050 --> 00:19:54,750 Anna Machin: on your own. It's produced by exercise. I think people 418 00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:58,109 Anna Machin: who get runners high or gym addicts know that that 419 00:19:58,109 --> 00:20:00,509 Anna Machin: euphoric feeling you feel and the fact that you can 420 00:20:00,509 --> 00:20:03,000 Anna Machin: become addicted to exercise, that's beta- endorphin. So any form 421 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,999 Anna Machin: of exercise can do that. Something like a massage. So 422 00:20:06,450 --> 00:20:09,960 Anna Machin: touch is the most powerful release of social hormones that 423 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,970 Anna Machin: there is. So you will get a lovely hit of 424 00:20:11,970 --> 00:20:15,719 Anna Machin: oxytocin and beta- endorphin if you have a massage, dancing, 425 00:20:15,719 --> 00:20:18,270 Anna Machin: and singing release beta- endorphin. So if you just dance around 426 00:20:18,270 --> 00:20:20,639 Anna Machin: your kitchen singing out, tune to something on the radio 427 00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:23,879 Anna Machin: that will release beta- endorphin. The great joy of being 428 00:20:23,879 --> 00:20:26,968 Anna Machin: with other people, though, is, those levels of beta- endorphin 429 00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:31,710 Anna Machin: and oxytocin, and dopamine are multiplied manyfold if you are actually 430 00:20:31,710 --> 00:20:34,230 Anna Machin: with somebody else. So you can mimic it, but you're 431 00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:36,418 Anna Machin: just not going to get the hit. It's not going 432 00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:38,099 Anna Machin: to be as big a hit than if you do 433 00:20:38,099 --> 00:20:40,198 Anna Machin: it socially, but there are behaviors you can do to 434 00:20:40,199 --> 00:20:40,590 Anna Machin: mimic it. 435 00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:42,780 Krutika Adatia: Well, it's great to know that you've mentioned things like 436 00:20:42,810 --> 00:20:44,700 Krutika Adatia: eating a tub of ice cream might just help me. 437 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,860 Krutika Adatia: Maybe avoid eating much of the ice cream, but also exercise. I know 438 00:20:50,130 --> 00:20:52,500 Krutika Adatia: that's something that can be great. And certainly, for me, 439 00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:54,000 Krutika Adatia: when I was studying and I was stuck on a 440 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,369 Krutika Adatia: problem, I often found that just going out for a 441 00:20:56,369 --> 00:20:58,799 Krutika Adatia: walk near the local park helped. And that walking is 442 00:20:58,799 --> 00:21:00,239 Krutika Adatia: a great form of exercise as well, isn't it? 443 00:21:00,450 --> 00:21:02,220 Anna Machin: It is. No, I find that completely. If I'm stuck 444 00:21:02,220 --> 00:21:03,600 Anna Machin: on something, I spend a lot of time writing, and 445 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,678 Anna Machin: if I get to a dead end, if I go 446 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,710 Anna Machin: for a walk, it's amazing how suddenly everything sort of 447 00:21:07,710 --> 00:21:10,648 Anna Machin: clarifies itself. And that is partly the exercise, that's the 448 00:21:10,650 --> 00:21:12,359 Anna Machin: oxygenation of the brain and just letting it have a 449 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,309 Anna Machin: little rest as well. But it is a lot to 450 00:21:14,309 --> 00:21:16,559 Anna Machin: do with the fact that you've produced beta- endorphin, and 451 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:17,879 Anna Machin: that just brings that clarity. 452 00:21:18,029 --> 00:21:20,430 Krutika Adatia: Oh, thank you so much. And I feel like I've understood 453 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:23,040 Krutika Adatia: a lot about myself as well and just the importance 454 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,280 Krutika Adatia: of social connection. So obviously, for some of our students, 455 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,369 Krutika Adatia: they might be with a tuition provider, and when that's 456 00:21:29,369 --> 00:21:32,158 Krutika Adatia: the case, they tend to be in person in a face- to- 457 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,469 Krutika Adatia: face class, as was the situation for me. And so I 458 00:21:34,469 --> 00:21:37,619 Krutika Adatia: was able to build connections that way. But granted, there'll 459 00:21:37,619 --> 00:21:40,650 Krutika Adatia: be students who are also self- studying, and they might 460 00:21:40,650 --> 00:21:43,590 Krutika Adatia: be thinking, " Right, where do I go to form these 461 00:21:43,590 --> 00:21:46,138 Krutika Adatia: connections? How can I get a study buddy?" And yes, 462 00:21:46,138 --> 00:21:50,189 Krutika Adatia: we do have forums, ACCA offers to connect with other 463 00:21:50,190 --> 00:21:54,539 Krutika Adatia: students. You've got things like Facebook pages, but what would 464 00:21:54,540 --> 00:21:57,960 Krutika Adatia: your advice be to these students who are self- studying 465 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:01,920 Krutika Adatia: and want to find connection with other students? 466 00:22:02,190 --> 00:22:03,840 Anna Machin: Well, it sounds like the Facebook page is a good 467 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,230 Anna Machin: place to start. So maybe try set up a WhatsApp group. That's 468 00:22:07,230 --> 00:22:09,928 Anna Machin: a really good way to introduce yourself, to start to 469 00:22:09,929 --> 00:22:12,388 Anna Machin: get to know people. And it's a great way to ask 470 00:22:12,388 --> 00:22:15,510 Anna Machin: practical questions. Obviously, that's very easy. But I would say 471 00:22:15,540 --> 00:22:18,270 Anna Machin: if you can be brave enough, once you've set up 472 00:22:18,270 --> 00:22:20,580 Anna Machin: that WhatsApp group, once you've talked to people on there, if 473 00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:23,638 Anna Machin: you can encourage people to have a video call or 474 00:22:23,638 --> 00:22:27,299 Anna Machin: even meet up if somebody's nearby, then you really well 475 00:22:27,299 --> 00:22:29,879 Anna Machin: be reaping the benefits of having those connections. So maybe 476 00:22:29,879 --> 00:22:33,960 Anna Machin: use the WhatsApp group as a jumping- off point to 477 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,850 Anna Machin: actually then maybe expand that a bit and get that 478 00:22:35,850 --> 00:22:38,070 Anna Machin: sensory experience, and do the video call. 479 00:22:38,220 --> 00:22:40,740 Krutika Adatia: So just thinking about students who are working and studying 480 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:42,718 Krutika Adatia: and might be thinking, " I don't have time for this," 481 00:22:43,049 --> 00:22:44,609 Krutika Adatia: what would your advice be there? 482 00:22:45,150 --> 00:22:47,730 Anna Machin: Okay, if you want to maximize your time and you 483 00:22:47,730 --> 00:22:49,918 Anna Machin: want to do it in a short period of time as possible, 484 00:22:50,340 --> 00:22:53,310 Anna Machin: be in the same room, be in a group if 485 00:22:53,310 --> 00:22:56,908 Anna Machin: you can, and do one of our lovely endorphin- releasing 486 00:22:56,910 --> 00:23:00,210 Anna Machin: activities together. Because what we know is, you can do 487 00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:02,729 Anna Machin: an activity on your own that produces endorphins, like exercise 488 00:23:02,730 --> 00:23:04,949 Anna Machin: or dancing or singing, or whatever that may be. And 489 00:23:04,949 --> 00:23:07,020 Anna Machin: it will give you an endorphin hit. And that's lovely. 490 00:23:07,410 --> 00:23:09,688 Anna Machin: But the bizarre thing is, as humans, if we do 491 00:23:09,750 --> 00:23:12,300 Anna Machin: one of those activities together in what we call synchrony, 492 00:23:13,020 --> 00:23:15,690 Anna Machin: that release of endorphins for that whole group is ramped 493 00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:18,989 Anna Machin: up 10-20 fold. It's an amazing phenomenon, and it's actually 494 00:23:18,990 --> 00:23:21,839 Anna Machin: what bonds groups together. So what I would say is, 495 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:25,800 Anna Machin: if exercise is your thing, go to an exercise class, do 496 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,140 Anna Machin: it all together with your friends, you are going to get a massive 497 00:23:28,140 --> 00:23:30,990 Anna Machin: hit of beta- endorphin. If that's not your thing, go 498 00:23:30,990 --> 00:23:33,929 Anna Machin: out dancing, join a choir, or something like that. Or 499 00:23:33,929 --> 00:23:36,150 Anna Machin: even if you've got those 15 minutes and you've come 500 00:23:36,150 --> 00:23:38,249 Anna Machin: together as a study group and you're having a cup 501 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:41,039 Anna Machin: of tea or whatever, if you can convince people, either 502 00:23:41,039 --> 00:23:42,509 Anna Machin: put something on the radio and sing along to it 503 00:23:42,540 --> 00:23:44,040 Anna Machin: or have a bit of a dance around the kitchen 504 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,668 Anna Machin: together. I know it sounds silly, but believe me, you 505 00:23:47,670 --> 00:23:49,950 Anna Machin: will get this multi- fold increase in beta- endorphin, and 506 00:23:49,950 --> 00:23:51,630 Anna Machin: you'll get all the positive effects, but in a really 507 00:23:51,630 --> 00:23:52,379 Anna Machin: short period of time. 508 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,320 Krutika Adatia: I'm just thinking about learning a TikTok dance over that 15 509 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:55,830 Krutika Adatia: minutes. Why not? Right? 510 00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:57,540 Anna Machin: Why not? Exactly. And then film it. 511 00:23:59,879 --> 00:24:01,830 Krutika Adatia: So before we wrap up, just wanted to ask you, 512 00:24:01,830 --> 00:24:04,109 Krutika Adatia: what three strategies do you have to make the most 513 00:24:04,109 --> 00:24:05,370 Krutika Adatia: out of social connections? 514 00:24:05,609 --> 00:24:09,059 Anna Machin: I would say make them face- to- face. Okay. Try 515 00:24:09,059 --> 00:24:12,090 Anna Machin: to do something in your social connections that's going to 516 00:24:12,090 --> 00:24:14,879 Anna Machin: generate a bit of beta- endorphin, a bit of oxytocin, 517 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,569 Anna Machin: a bit of dopamine. So if you can have a laugh, 518 00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:20,129 Anna Machin: I mean even if it's having to go to a comedy 519 00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:23,488 Anna Machin: club together, do that. That's absolutely great. Go and do 520 00:24:23,490 --> 00:24:27,148 Anna Machin: exercise together. Go and dancing together. Anything like that, that 521 00:24:27,150 --> 00:24:30,869 Anna Machin: produces it. And whilst it's important to be social, obviously 522 00:24:30,869 --> 00:24:33,448 Anna Machin: when you are working, it's also important to remember to 523 00:24:33,450 --> 00:24:36,300 Anna Machin: be social in your downtime as well. That really truly 524 00:24:36,330 --> 00:24:40,410 Anna Machin: relaxing time. And I will also say, if you aren't 525 00:24:40,410 --> 00:24:42,869 Anna Machin: a particularly sociable person, and we're not all particularly sociable, 526 00:24:43,380 --> 00:24:45,900 Anna Machin: it doesn't have to be with a human. We get 527 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:47,698 Anna Machin: some of the release of some of these chemicals from 528 00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:50,130 Anna Machin: your pet dog, or if you've got a cat, hug 529 00:24:50,130 --> 00:24:53,010 Anna Machin: your cat. All of these things will produce beta- endorphin. 530 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,340 Anna Machin: So if people aren't your thing, then maybe turn to 531 00:24:56,340 --> 00:24:57,720 Anna Machin: something nice and warm, and furry. 532 00:24:58,230 --> 00:25:02,010 Krutika Adatia: Thank you so much, Anna, for this conversation. That's it from 533 00:25:02,010 --> 00:25:04,349 Krutika Adatia: this episode of On Your Marks. Thank you, Anna, for 534 00:25:04,349 --> 00:25:07,830 Krutika Adatia: talking with me today. For more information about ACCA exams, 535 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:13,290 Krutika Adatia: you can go to www. accaglobal. com/ exams. See you 536 00:25:13,290 --> 00:25:16,859 Krutika Adatia: next time. I'm Krutika Adatia, and this has been On Your Marks.