Kia Commodore: When I was a kid, I always got told it
Kia Commodore: was good to share, but does that mean money too?
Kia Commodore: A few episodes back, we were talking about financial abuse
Kia Commodore: and Katie made a point saying that it's important not
Kia Commodore: to be put off sharing finances with a romantic partner.
Kia Commodore: There are benefits to it, although it can still get messy if
Kia Commodore: you don't have a solid plan in place. So, today,
Kia Commodore: I'm talking to Amy James, a product manager at Legal &
Kia Commodore: General. When she and her partner Dan decided that they'd
Kia Commodore: like to settle down together, he revealed that he had
Kia Commodore: built up some significant debts. Her story is about how
Kia Commodore: they worked together to get to a stronger financial place.
Kia Commodore: Amy, great to have you here, but can you give
Kia Commodore: us a brief overview of your experiences sharing your finances
Kia Commodore: with your partner, Dan?
Amy James: Dan and I met when I was 22, and I
Amy James: think we have hit every milestone along the way in
Amy James: terms of how we have shared our finances. Early days,
Amy James: I mean, very much like most couples, what was mine
Amy James: was mine, what's his was his. We lived very independently
Amy James: and dated like that for about a year. And then,
Amy James: the role that I had took me to a point
Amy James: where we had to decide do I want to move
Amy James: to the same city as him or was I going
Amy James: to stay? So, we decided that I would move in
Amy James: with him in his flatshare with some of his other
Amy James: friends, so that was kind of our first step into,
Amy James: okay, so what does that mean for our shared finances?
Amy James: At that point, again, we just contributed to each other's
Amy James: little pot that goes into the shared household. And about
Amy James: a year after that, living in a shared housing, I
Amy James: was like, " Great, I'm saving loads of money here," so
Amy James: I'm either quite happy to do this, or actually we've
Amy James: done this for a year, do we want to live
Amy James: just the two of us? I think that was the
Amy James: pivotal first conversation that we had about what's next for
Amy James: both of us. And it was at that point that
Amy James: Dan said he had a little bit of debt, not
Amy James: that much, just a few thousand pounds. It was enough
Amy James: for me to worry about, but go, " Okay, that's fine."
Amy James: We're clearly in different financial positions. So, at that point,
Amy James: we said, " Well, we don't want to stay living in
Amy James: a house share, but we'd like to get our own
Amy James: place. We're not ready to jump straight into buying somewhere
Amy James: together because we're not in the same financial position." So,
Amy James: the agreement was Dan would keep paying off his debt
Amy James: and he said he was in control of that, but
Amy James: I would keep saving towards a house that we would
Amy James: eventually buy, so we moved in together. About coming up
Amy James: to 12 months from having kind of moved in together
Amy James: and renting, I saw one of the apartments in our
Amy James: building come up for sale and I thought, " Well, we
Amy James: love where we live. We're close to town. It's a
Amy James: lovely building and I've probably got enough money to buy
Amy James: that with a mortgage." That was kind of the next
Amy James: conversation, so we said, " Yep, that's great." I don't think
Amy James: we revisited sort of how far Dan had come in
Amy James: his debt. We were probably still kind of fairly ignorant
Amy James: and living in happy bliss of each other's finances, but
Amy James: feeling like that comfortable arrangement was underneath of it, that Dan
Amy James: was paying off debt and I was saving. So, it
Amy James: was no surprise to him that I had enough savings
Amy James: to kind of put down that deposit. So, we put
Amy James: down the deposit. We said we'd buy the house. Dan
Amy James: was very adamant that it would be my house and
Amy James: he didn't want to go on the mortgage, that it was
Amy James: going to be for me. He couldn't contribute towards the
Amy James: deposit and he felt that was fair. I was like, "
Amy James: All right, I don't really mind." I knew that I was
Amy James: buying it as our first home that we were going
Amy James: to live in together, so whether he was on it
Amy James: or not kind of didn't bother me, but I understood
Amy James: better when it came to that kind of first month
Amy James: that we were ready to make that exchange, everything's culminating,
Amy James: and Dan started to look quite worn out, quite stressed.
Amy James: It was very visible on him, and one day, I
Amy James: came back from a work trip and he just broke,
Amy James: and he confessed that actually he had a lot of
Amy James: debt. He had been paying it off in the last year,
Amy James: but what might've been 3 or 5, 000 pounds of
Amy James: debt was not. It was more than his annual salary
Amy James: in debt.
Kia Commodore: Wow.
Amy James: Yeah. So, yes, that was a critical milestone.
Kia Commodore: Wow. So, that is quite a journey that you guys
Kia Commodore: have been on, and I mean, that is quite a
Kia Commodore: revelation. I can't even imagine how it is, you think
Kia Commodore: one thing in terms of the amount of debt your
Kia Commodore: partner's got, and then it ended up being something completely different.
Amy James: Yeah. Quite a shock.
Kia Commodore: If we talk about that process then, what was the
Kia Commodore: most important and helpful thing that helped you through going
Kia Commodore: through getting your first property and just having a conversation?
Amy James: Well, it was once we were in that situation that,
Amy James: I mean, everything has to come to a head at
Amy James: that point, doesn't it? Because it was a question of,
Amy James: well, do I continue to buy this apartment? What if
Amy James: we can't afford it? I'd intended for us to live
Amy James: in it and share those expenses together. I was able
Amy James: to afford that mortgage by myself. That's the point. So,
Amy James: that was comfortable and we agreed that, okay, that's what
Amy James: we're going to do. I was going to continue to
Amy James: buy the house, but there was no more of me saying, "
Amy James: Okay, that's fine, Dan. You just carry on in the
Amy James: background paying off your debt." We had a much more
Amy James: visible shared sense of each other's finances, but also it
Amy James: forced us to sort of embrace this idea, an understanding
Amy James: that yes, we could have probably kept independent and that
Amy James: might've meant that I could afford things that he couldn't
Amy James: afford or I'll pay for you to go on holiday
Amy James: because I want us to go on holiday together, but
Amy James: actually, we knew we were doing this as the next
Amy James: step of our lives and our partnership together. So, I
Amy James: looked at that as I want our finances to be
Amy James: shared together, so if we've got all of this money
Amy James: to pay off, I see it as you do, but I
Amy James: want to help you pay that off because what happens
Amy James: to you is going to impact what happens to me.
Amy James: But I think we found a mutual respect for one another and
Amy James: in the steps that we took, so we rented out
Amy James: one of the rooms in my new apartment and my
Amy James: brother came to live with us, so that helped pay
Amy James: towards it. Dan had to sell his car, but we
Amy James: lived in the City Centre, so it was one of
Amy James: those... That was a heartbreak, but we lived with it. Exactly.
Amy James: But those were big commitments. He also quit smoking and
Amy James: that was huge because that was a big expense. So,
Amy James: there were a couple of big lifestyle changes between us
Amy James: both that went towards paying off all of that debt.
Kia Commodore: I think that's really good. Hearing your story I think
Kia Commodore: is probably reminiscent to a lot of our listeners. It's
Kia Commodore: such a mature conversation that you had and it's a
Kia Commodore: difficult one, and we said it before on this podcast
Kia Commodore: that money is such a taboo topic, and especially talking
Kia Commodore: about it when you're not in a great place, people
Kia Commodore: shy away from it. So, it makes sense why maybe
Kia Commodore: he wasn't forthcoming initially, but you two putting together that
Kia Commodore: plan and saying, " You know what? We're a partnership. We're
Kia Commodore: going to figure this out together." But equally, you not
Kia Commodore: taking full ownership of his debt, which you could have
Kia Commodore: have stepped in like you said and said, " You know
Kia Commodore: what? I'm just going to help you pay off." But
Kia Commodore: coming together and helping him manage his money I think
Kia Commodore: is really key. I want to bring it to your
Kia Commodore: everyday now, so what does that arrangement look like now
Kia Commodore: with your everyday finances, the two of you?
Amy James: Well, we fast- forward five, six years now actually. We
Amy James: jumped. We paid off all that debt. We set ourselves that goal
Amy James: that we said we'd pay it off in three years
Amy James: and we actually paid it off in just under three years
Amy James: because we were getting married, and we made a big
Amy James: kick at the end to say, " We want to start
Amy James: our lives. I'm married without all of this debt behind
Amy James: us." Now, we have our finances completely joint actually. Slowly,
Amy James: our finances just came together to the point where everything
Amy James: was going into that joint account, so there was no
Amy James: more sort of just splitting the bills. Both of our
Amy James: incomes went into it, and that's made a big difference
Amy James: for my everyday now because we now have a little
Amy James: girl. She's three. And when it came to big decisions,
Amy James: again, like maternity leave, suddenly I'm the one who's at
Amy James: the financial detriment because it's my income that's taking a
Amy James: hit, not Dan's. And actually, well, there was no question
Amy James: that that was just a joint hit. It wasn't my
Amy James: hit to take on my own and my finances. Our
Amy James: household income took the burden of having to take the
Amy James: maternity leave, and then what does childcare look like? All
Amy James: of that comes from our family finances as opposed to
Amy James: his or mine.
Kia Commodore: Well, I think it's great, like you said, your approach
Kia Commodore: to finances now. I mean, congratulations on getting it all
Kia Commodore: wiped off and having the wedding that you wanted, and being able
Kia Commodore: to do that, I think that is such a testament in
Kia Commodore: your journey and your story together with the partnership. But I
Kia Commodore: think even just seeing how you guys manage your money,
Kia Commodore: and join your finances, you obviously have your strong money
Kia Commodore: management that you've got yourself innately, and I think there's
Kia Commodore: so many different things that people can do. Whenever I
Kia Commodore: talk to people who were a couple, there are things
Kia Commodore: like money dates. I'm not sure if you guys do
Kia Commodore: money dates where you kind of get-
Amy James: We do.
Kia Commodore: ... together and talk about it.
Amy James: Yeah. I don't know that I'm as glamorous as calling it a money date.
Kia Commodore: But you come together and talk about finances.
Amy James: We absolutely do that, yeah. We sit down and we look
Amy James: through what are the bills and kind where we at,
Amy James: and we have that open conversation about what is our
Amy James: next goal? So, it was really obvious when it was
Amy James: paying off debt, but once we paid off debt, then
Amy James: it was, well, actually we're going to get married. Do
Amy James: we want to save for a wedding? Do we want
Amy James: to save for a new house? We have. We've bought
Amy James: a new family home, rather than our little first apartment.
Amy James: What were each of those goals that we were saving
Amy James: towards? Or if we weren't saving sometimes at any point,
Amy James: it was just we were just building up a bit
Amy James: of a... What's the word? A comfort blanket.
Kia Commodore: Yes, yes. Like an emergency fund, a rainy day fund
Kia Commodore: that you can fall back on.
Amy James: A rainy day fund, exactly.
Kia Commodore: Amazing.
Amy James: We both love our travel, so it would always be, "
Amy James: Okay, if we save that, then maybe actually now it's
Amy James: nice things that we can save for. We can save
Amy James: for nice holidays and go on nicer trips."
Kia Commodore: That's really nice. I think it's so great to see
Kia Commodore: that. You mentioned there that you guys have got an amazing child, a three- year- old.
Amy James: We do, yeah.
Kia Commodore: Amazing. So, how did things change for you as a
Kia Commodore: couple when you had your child? Because obviously that is massive
Kia Commodore: change, and did you have to review, who paid for
Kia Commodore: what, and what expenses were paid out of where?
Amy James: Yeah. I guess for us, because we had come together
Amy James: so jointly in our finances, we didn't have to change
Amy James: an awful lot when I got pregnant and when we
Amy James: had her. Actually, childcare just became another expense that had
Amy James: to come out, and obviously, we have to have that
Amy James: conversation and review. We've got new outgoings and what does
Amy James: that look like? But it was nice to have that
Amy James: comfort that it wasn't me looking at it in terms of, "
Amy James: Okay, well, if I want to reduce my hours, what
Amy James: does that mean? And can I still afford to contribute
Amy James: my half of things?" Because actually it was recognized that
Amy James: it's just what do we have as a total sum,
Amy James: how much of that is now going towards looking after
Amy James: this little person, whether that's childcare or just new bills
Amy James: and new groceries that need purchased. But in that way,
Amy James: it was kind of nice. It just became very casual
Amy James: and didn't feel stressful.
Kia Commodore: Well, I think that's nice. Like I said, you got over the harder part initially, which
Kia Commodore: is you tackling that debt, so then everything else almost
Kia Commodore: feels more seamless because money isn't taboo anymore. We can
Kia Commodore: talk about it. We can figure out our rhythm. So, I
Kia Commodore: think that's great. That's amazing. Amy, it was great hearing how you
Kia Commodore: guys manage your finances as even a couple, and I
Kia Commodore: think it's also good to highlight just in general, anyone
Kia Commodore: who isn't a couple and thinking about different ways that
Kia Commodore: they can manage their finances, keeping separate accounts is another
Kia Commodore: way that you can do it. So, people have their
Kia Commodore: joint accounts, but you might have your separate accounts that
Kia Commodore: you put money into for different spending. Like you mentioned,
Kia Commodore: sharing things in the joint account is all very useful.
Kia Commodore: Household bills in there, things that you share, joint accounts.
Kia Commodore: Also, dividing up what's mine, what's yours, and what's ours?
Kia Commodore: Keeping that separate and having the main earner pay their
Kia Commodore: partner and allowance. Another interesting way to do it, but
Kia Commodore: it works for some couples. So, there are some general
Kia Commodore: tips that you can do when it comes to managing
Kia Commodore: your finances as a couple. But what I do want to kind
Kia Commodore: of caveat here is to be wary of joint finances.
Kia Commodore: If one of you has a poor credit history, because
Kia Commodore: if you open up a joint bank account or take
Kia Commodore: out a mortgage together, your credit rating could be affected
Kia Commodore: as you'll be co- scored if you apply for credit,
Kia Commodore: so it's a good idea for both of you to
Kia Commodore: check your credit before combining your finances. Amy, I'm going
Kia Commodore: to ask you the question that I ask all of
Kia Commodore: our guests at the end of our episode. What are
Kia Commodore: your three top tips for our listeners to help them
Kia Commodore: get a little bit richer?
Amy James: I think my first is there is no one- size- fits-
Amy James: all. I started by telling you that I think we
Amy James: have hit every single one of the ways of sharing
Amy James: finances through our relationship, so we didn't jump straight into
Amy James: sharing finances on our third date. We built to that,
Amy James: and that has absolutely served us right, but I've got
Amy James: plenty of friends that also have wonderful marriages and partnerships
Amy James: but don't share their finances and still have those open
Amy James: conversations, which is my second point. I think having open
Amy James: conversations, really transparent ones, both with yourselves but also with
Amy James: friends because I think money is really taboo and it
Amy James: shouldn't be. Why can't we talk about how much somebody
Amy James: else spends on something? Because actually, it might put in perspective, "
Amy James: You're spending what on those bills? Look at this one.
Amy James: You can save a little bit over here." And actually,
Amy James: that really helps and it helps you as a couple
Amy James: as well. My third, I think it's having a shared goal
Amy James: because that helps that foundation of shared respect for each
Amy James: other's finances. It's unlikely at any point in time, you're
Amy James: both going to match in your finances. One of you
Amy James: is going to earn a little more. One of you is going
Amy James: to earn a little less. One of you might come
Amy James: into a bit of money. And I think having that
Amy James: respect for the fact that you're both working towards a
Amy James: shared goal at any point in time helps if there
Amy James: are challenges where somebody's going, " Do you know what? Actually, that budget feels
Amy James: really tight and I don't enjoy it. Now, I am
Amy James: feeling restricted in my spending, and that's encroaching on the
Amy James: life that I want." Actually, having that conversation to say, "
Amy James: All right. Well, that's fine. Let's rein that back a
Amy James: little bit." So, I think at every point, if you
Amy James: have something that you're working jointly towards, that really helps
Amy James: cement any of the other two points where you're having
Amy James: those conversations and being open and honest with each other.
Kia Commodore: Those are amazing, especially the tip about the shared goal.
Kia Commodore: I love that. I think when it comes to any
Kia Commodore: kind of saving as a couple but even as individuals,
Kia Commodore: having a goal in mind will keep you on track,
Kia Commodore: and it's even better if you have the same vision.
Amy James: Exactly.
Kia Commodore: Thank you so much, Amy. You've shared some incredible gems
Kia Commodore: on this podcast. Next time, I'm learning more about side
Kia Commodore: hustles. A second job can be a great way to
Kia Commodore: bring some extra money in, but do you need to
Kia Commodore: pay tax on that money? What other costs are involved?
Kia Commodore: And will you still get time to actually have a
Kia Commodore: break from work? I'm getting into all of this and
Kia Commodore: more on A Little Bit Richer, but while you wait,
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Kia Commodore: are all the things that help get the pod up the chart
Kia Commodore: and helping other people too. Bye.