Kia: It is Kia, ever dream of changing your surroundings for
Kia: something a bit sunnier? The rise of remote working, that
Kia: dream is becoming more and more of a reality with
Kia: lots more people embracing a digital nomad lifestyle. But what
Kia: are the financial implications of that? How do you make
Kia: a life- changing decision like this while sticking to your
Kia: money goals? To get into all of this, I'm chatting
Kia: to Claire Rhodes, a freelance writer whose job meant that
Kia: in 2021 she was able to make the decision to
Kia: work from abroad. If the way this episode sounds is
Kia: a little different to usual, it's because you might have
Kia: guessed, Claire isn't with me today. She's currently on her
Kia: travels. Not that I'm jealous at all. Claire, thank you
Kia: for coming on and taking the time out to speak
Kia: to us. I want to ask you to kick things
Kia: off. Tell me a little bit more about your story.
Kia: How did you become and decide to become a digital nomad?
Claire: I don't think it's particularly dissimilar to what I imagine a lot
Claire: of digital nomad stories are. I sort of went to
Claire: university, went straight into an office job straight after that.
Claire: I've worked as a content writer for B2B tech companies,
Claire: so I worked at PR agencies in London, content marketing
Claire: agencies, that sort of thing. And I've been in that
Claire: space for about seven years now. But over COVID like
Claire: a lot of people, we were stuck inside. We were
Claire: obviously doing a lot of remote working from there anyway,
Claire: and I think it just encouraged me and a lot of other
Claire: people to sort of look at our work- life balance.
Claire: I hadn't done a lot of traveling before, so that
Claire: was something that I really wanted to go out and
Claire: just do a bit more of do it whilst I
Claire: was sort of young. Find the money side of it
Claire: does come after a little bit, but yeah, not sort
Claire: of saving up and doing it for retirement and that
Claire: sort of stuff. So I decided to go freelance in
Claire: summer 2021, which is when I decided to give up
Claire: my house that I was renting in Buckinghamshire, sell all
Claire: my stuff, my car, everything and me and my partner
Claire: just upped sticks and started traveling basically.
Kia: Claire, that sounds like an absolute dream as someone who
Kia: loves to travel as well. I'm sure you've probably seen
Kia: some incredible things. And this year I went traveling, one
Kia: of my favorite places was Thailand and I think that
Kia: was when I realized it's actually not as hard as
Kia: people think. Obviously there's time differences, there's things to work
Kia: out but it's relatively easy to work abroad and I thought it was
Kia: going to be harder than that.
Claire: Yeah, definitely. I completely agree. I think unless you are
Claire: sort of surrounded by people who have done it or
Claire: know someone who have done it and been successful at
Claire: it, it seems like a very farfetched idea. But until
Claire: you actually meet someone who's done it and they can
Claire: sort of tell you a little bit about it and the
Claire: fact that, yes, there's hurdles to go over but it's
Claire: not. Like you said, it is not as hard as I think people make
Claire: it out to be. It's just a very different way
Claire: of life that you just have to adapt to I think.
Kia: Absolutely. And it's good that we've got you here to
Kia: hear about everything that you are doing. So what does
Kia: life look like for you now? So what work do
Kia: you do and what does a typical week look like
Kia: for you?
Claire: I am living in Bali in Indonesia at the minute. We got
Claire: a yearlong lease there, so that's where sort of home
Claire: is I guess at the moment. I'm still doing the
Claire: same work that I was doing when I was full-
Claire: time employed, so I'm still doing B2B tech content writing
Claire: but I've obviously just got my own client base that
Claire: I work with. I'm really lucky that I've got a
Claire: lot of flexible clients. The time difference for Bali and
Claire: UK is seven hours, sometimes eight hours when we have
Claire: daylight savings, so it's a little bit brutal. But everyone
Claire: has been fantastic about having early morning calls in the
Claire: UK and stuff so that I'm not joining calls at 1:00
Claire: AM and that kind of thing. But obviously when it
Claire: needs to happen, that's absolutely fine. In terms of a
Claire: typical week, it depends on if I'm actively traveling or
Claire: I'm back in my place in Bali, but I try
Claire: to only work three days worth of hours a week if
Claire: you like. I'm really trying to be kind of strict
Claire: on that because one of the reasons I wanted to
Claire: do obviously the whole digital nomad and remote working thing
Claire: is to go out and see more of things. So it is
Claire: very easy once you start getting your clients in and
Claire: getting your money in and stuff to end up being
Claire: stuck working Monday to Friday. And I think I've just
Claire: tried to be really, really strict with myself about not
Claire: going back into that. Needless to say, sometimes you do
Claire: have to do that. Sometimes where you are living or
Claire: traveling to is more expensive and flights and accommodation and
Claire: things add up and then you need to get more
Claire: money in and that's fine. But one of the really
Claire: nice things is if you need to have a month
Claire: or two where you are living a bit cheaper, you
Claire: need to sort of not have so many expenses and
Claire: stuff. You can fly somewhere that's going to lend that
Claire: to you, so Bali's a great example of that. Flights yes,
Claire: can be expensive depending on where you are, but the
Claire: actual cost of living and the quality of living is
Claire: a lot higher than in other places in the world.
Kia: Claire, you are really selling this to myself and everyone
Kia: listening, three- day work week, get to see the sites.
Kia: And like you said, if things need to kind of
Kia: cut back on money, you'd make that move. You are
Kia: really selling it. So let's go into that a bit more.
Kia: What have some of your high points been then and
Kia: what has surprised you on your journey into this digital
Kia: nomad life?
Claire: I would say some of my high points is some
Claire: of the weird and wonderful places I've traveled to. I've
Claire: been to Mauritania and West Africa. I spent a month
Claire: in Pakistan. Places that you wouldn't necessarily think to go
Claire: on vacation, but because you're traveling it is obviously more of
Claire: an interesting place to go to and are far less
Claire: traveled if you like. And it was amazing. But also
Claire: the fact that on either side of that trip I
Claire: was just able to kind of just lock in and
Claire: get my work done. And then I could take that
Claire: month off and it was fine and I knew everything
Claire: was going to be fine. And all my clients knew
Claire: I was going to be off for a bit and
Claire: I could just come back and get straight back into
Claire: it. But yeah, I think that's something that I would
Claire: perhaps elaborate on, find your nice easy clients and make
Claire: sure that you build a connection with them. I think
Claire: a lot of people are worried with remote work that
Claire: it's all kind of email based and you don't really
Claire: get to know anybody, especially as a freelancer I find
Claire: that people are sometimes a little bit standoffish about that.
Claire: And it's very different meeting someone in the office and
Claire: doing that kind of thing, but just make sure you
Claire: have kind of regular phone calls with people. And just
Claire: have that personal element as well so that you are
Claire: both seen as human, you're not just business entities doing
Claire: a business transaction. I think that's really, really important. In
Claire: terms of things that surprised me, I would say from
Claire: a, it's kind of a digital nomad point of view
Claire: but also a self- employed point of view, taxes to
Claire: be honest. When I first went freelance I didn't earn
Claire: as much in my first year. I didn't work for
Claire: kind of six months. I saved up a lot and
Claire: just wanted to solely travel so I only worked for
Claire: the latter six months of it, whereas my second year
Claire: was very much traveling and working continuously. I did my
Claire: tax bill a couple of months ago and was a
Claire: little bit surprised by that. So I'm having the fun
Claire: thing of making sure I've got enough money to pay
Claire: for that in January. So I think that's something to
Claire: bear in mind whether you are digital nomading or kind
Claire: of doing self- employed, that kind of thing, just do
Claire: your homework on where you're working and your tax situation
Claire: and who you need to pay for what would be I think
Claire: a solid piece of advice that I wish I'd taken
Claire: a little bit more notice of. But I've done that
Claire: now, so hopefully the hard work's done for anyone else
Claire: thinking about it and listening,
Kia: I think what you've mentioned there is really good. You've managed
Kia: to do some incredible travels, that sounds like a dream,
Kia: the places you've been and what you've done. But when
Kia: it comes to the finance element and you mentioned taxes,
Kia: we've spoken about it before in this podcast, but that
Kia: is something that really does almost stump people especially when
Kia: you're self- employed. And it's great to see that obviously
Kia: now you've got a bit more understanding. But I think a
Kia: lot of self- employed people, myself included, have had a
Kia: similar journey where you go into it, everything's great and
Kia: then the tax bill comes and then you're having to
Kia: kind of work that one out. And just a reminder
Kia: for our listeners, make sure that you're checking the tax
Kia: and employment regulations in the countries that you're planning to
Kia: travel to, because each country has their own rules and
Kia: restrictions on this and it's always good to double check
Kia: and see what's going on with those countries. It's also
Kia: worth noting that with national insurance, you may have to
Kia: pay this if you think that there's any chance you may
Kia: be returning back to the UK in the future. When
Kia: it comes to your financial goals, Claire, how does working
Kia: abroad actually fit into those goals that you have?
Claire: I think it kind of fits in, so for example,
Claire: I want to buy a house at some point. I'm
Claire: 30, I've not quite got there yet. I'm not sort
Claire: of at the stage in life where I want to
Claire: get married and have kids and stuff, but yes, I
Claire: would like to have a house in a few years. And
Claire: I think sort of working abroad like I mentioned earlier,
Claire: if you have a kind of financial goal like that
Claire: for a house deposit for example in your mind and
Claire: you want to do that, it's very easy to live
Claire: where it's a lot cheaper and you can save a
Claire: lot more money.
Kia: I think everything that you shared in this episode has
Kia: been really good at almost dispelling anyone, including myself, who might've
Kia: had reservations about moving abroad, what am I going to do
Kia: for money? Where am I going to live? It's going
Kia: to cost so much. I think there is that perception,
Kia: that idea that it will cost an arm and a
Kia: leg when in reality you've shared of your journey that
Kia: you're earning more, working less and paying less so you
Kia: can reach some of your financial goals. And Claire, you might've
Kia: had me sold. I know that wasn't your aim, but
Kia: you might've had me sold. Don't be surprised if the next
Kia: episode I'm going to be on a sunny beach somewhere.
Kia: Everyone, don't be surprised. What do you wish you'd known
Kia: before you made this change?
Claire: I think there's three things that kind of jump out
Claire: for me here. The first being just do your homework.
Claire: So look at where you're going, look at where you
Claire: want to travel, look at where you want to work
Claire: and just make sure you have the right things in
Claire: place to be able to kind of do that properly.
Claire: So look at things like where you need to pay
Claire: taxes, so that obviously depends on your clientele and where
Claire: you're working. And look at things like visas as well.
Claire: Obviously if you're going somewhere where you're going to work
Claire: online and you need a business visa for example, just
Claire: make sure you've done the right sort of research to
Claire: make sure that you are ticking all the boxes. The second
Claire: thing I would say would be to have a safety
Claire: net. Traveling is great but unexpected things do happen, so
Claire: expect them to happen and just be prepared. So if
Claire: you need to have a last minute flight home or
Claire: you need to change your travel plans and that kind
Claire: of thing, just make sure you've got a bit of
Claire: money set aside to do that. If you don't, it's
Claire: going to get very overwhelming very quickly. You don't want
Claire: to be putting things on your credit card and it's
Claire: going to be a lot. So just make sure you've
Claire: got that sort of capital set aside for that I
Claire: think is really important. And thirdly, I would say choose
Claire: a place where you're going to have a bit of
Claire: a community. There's some really, really great cities that I've
Claire: been to that have got really, really, really good digital
Claire: nomad communities in there and that's obviously why people go.
Claire: Off the top of my head, Canggu in Bali which is
Claire: where I live is a great example of that. Other places
Claire: as well, Lisbon, and there was also Tulum in Mexico
Claire: is another place that I've been to that's got really
Claire: good digital nomad communities. And I think it's really important
Claire: to surround yourself with like- minded people, especially if you
Claire: want to go down the digital nomad route. So a
Claire: really, really good example of that, there's a pub where
Claire: I live in Bali and on a Friday night everyone
Claire: goes down there. But it's always really interesting because it's
Claire: always people who are kind of starting their own businesses,
Claire: looking for inspiration, where they want to travel to next.
Claire: You'll probably find someone who is in the same field
Claire: as you or someone who you would see yourself as
Claire: having a client in that space and you can end
Claire: up working together. Everyone's really willing to help each other
Claire: out and sort of provide that inspiration that you may
Claire: need at that certain point. And if you are lucky enough that you are in
Claire: the right place at the right time, you can give
Claire: inspiration to other people who may need it at the
Claire: time as well.
Kia: To run off this episode, I ask every guest the
Kia: same question and I'm going to ask you, what three tips do
Kia: you have in terms of being a digital nomad that
Kia: will help our listeners get a little bit richer?
Claire: The first thing I would say is just do it.
Claire: Just give it a go. Don't wait until retirement to
Claire: do all your travel dreams and that kind of stuff.
Claire: Give it a go. If it doesn't work, it doesn't
Claire: work. If it does, it's going to be the best
Claire: decision you ever make. Secondly, I would say look at
Claire: what you can actually do feasibly, sort of working remotely.
Claire: You need to remember that you're traveling around, you've only
Claire: got so much space in a backpack. So picking something
Claire: that is laptop based is great. Obviously I'm a content
Claire: writer, I need a laptop. I don't need to have
Claire: cameras and all that kind of stuff that might make
Claire: it a bit harder perhaps to travel around for some
Claire: people. And thirdly, I would say save up a bit
Claire: first. When I left to go traveling a few years
Claire: ago, I sold everything in my house and downsized everything
Claire: to a couple of boxes that are at my mom's
Claire: garage now. So that money really helped me. It made
Claire: me feel a lot more secure. Moving to another country
Claire: and traveling around is quite a scary thing to do.
Claire: So having that money set aside was really nice for
Claire: me to know that I have it and if I
Claire: need to dip into it, I can. And if I
Claire: don't, great, I can just continue saving.
Kia: Claire, thank you so much. I'm excited to see where
Kia: you're off to next. Somewhere hot and sunny I'm sure
Kia: compared to where I am, chilly UK. But thank you
Kia: so much, it's been a great episode.
Claire: Thanks a lot, Kia. It was nice to meet to you.
Kia: Great to hear about Claire's incredible lifestyle. The podcast has
Kia: taken a break for a couple of weeks for Christmas.
Kia: But then a little bit richer we'll be back in the new
Kia: year, where we'll look at how to create good money
Kia: habits for 2024. In the meantime, if you're enjoying the
Kia: pod, hit follow and tell your friends. See you in January.