WEBVTT - Become A Digital Nomad 0:00:00.210 --> 0:00:04.380 It is Kia, ever dream of changing your surroundings for 0:00:04.380 --> 0:00:08.280 something a bit sunnier? The rise of remote working, that 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:10.920 dream is becoming more and more of a reality with 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:14.699 lots more people embracing a digital nomad lifestyle. But what 0:00:14.700 --> 0:00:17.788 are the financial implications of that? How do you make 0:00:17.789 --> 0:00:20.520 a life- changing decision like this while sticking to your 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:23.880 money goals? To get into all of this, I'm chatting 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.910 to Claire Rhodes, a freelance writer whose job meant that 0:00:26.910 --> 0:00:29.460 in 2021 she was able to make the decision to 0:00:29.460 --> 0:00:32.489 work from abroad. If the way this episode sounds is 0:00:32.490 --> 0:00:34.830 a little different to usual, it's because you might have 0:00:34.830 --> 0:00:37.710 guessed, Claire isn't with me today. She's currently on her 0:00:37.710 --> 0:00:42.720 travels. Not that I'm jealous at all. Claire, thank you 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:44.760 for coming on and taking the time out to speak 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.469 to us. I want to ask you to kick things 0:00:46.469 --> 0:00:49.049 off. Tell me a little bit more about your story. 0:00:49.290 --> 0:00:52.379 How did you become and decide to become a digital nomad? 0:00:52.469 --> 0:00:56.010 I don't think it's particularly dissimilar to what I imagine a lot 0:00:56.010 --> 0:00:58.830 of digital nomad stories are. I sort of went to 0:00:58.830 --> 0:01:02.610 university, went straight into an office job straight after that. 0:01:03.030 --> 0:01:06.750 I've worked as a content writer for B2B tech companies, 0:01:06.809 --> 0:01:10.920 so I worked at PR agencies in London, content marketing 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.020 agencies, that sort of thing. And I've been in that 0:01:13.020 --> 0:01:17.429 space for about seven years now. But over COVID like 0:01:17.430 --> 0:01:19.440 a lot of people, we were stuck inside. We were 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:21.959 obviously doing a lot of remote working from there anyway, 0:01:22.050 --> 0:01:25.259 and I think it just encouraged me and a lot of other 0:01:25.259 --> 0:01:27.750 people to sort of look at our work- life balance. 0:01:28.260 --> 0:01:30.600 I hadn't done a lot of traveling before, so that 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:32.370 was something that I really wanted to go out and 0:01:32.370 --> 0:01:34.319 just do a bit more of do it whilst I 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:37.140 was sort of young. Find the money side of it 0:01:37.140 --> 0:01:39.809 does come after a little bit, but yeah, not sort 0:01:39.809 --> 0:01:42.690 of saving up and doing it for retirement and that 0:01:42.690 --> 0:01:46.199 sort of stuff. So I decided to go freelance in 0:01:46.199 --> 0:01:50.100 summer 2021, which is when I decided to give up 0:01:50.100 --> 0:01:52.800 my house that I was renting in Buckinghamshire, sell all 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.740 my stuff, my car, everything and me and my partner 0:01:55.740 --> 0:01:58.620 just upped sticks and started traveling basically. 0:01:59.820 --> 0:02:02.219 Claire, that sounds like an absolute dream as someone who 0:02:02.219 --> 0:02:04.770 loves to travel as well. I'm sure you've probably seen 0:02:04.770 --> 0:02:08.850 some incredible things. And this year I went traveling, one 0:02:08.850 --> 0:02:11.610 of my favorite places was Thailand and I think that 0:02:11.610 --> 0:02:14.610 was when I realized it's actually not as hard as 0:02:14.610 --> 0:02:16.980 people think. Obviously there's time differences, there's things to work 0:02:16.980 --> 0:02:21.120 out but it's relatively easy to work abroad and I thought it was 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:21.930 going to be harder than that. 0:02:22.169 --> 0:02:25.410 Yeah, definitely. I completely agree. I think unless you are 0:02:25.410 --> 0:02:27.930 sort of surrounded by people who have done it or 0:02:27.930 --> 0:02:30.450 know someone who have done it and been successful at 0:02:30.450 --> 0:02:33.300 it, it seems like a very farfetched idea. But until 0:02:33.300 --> 0:02:35.040 you actually meet someone who's done it and they can 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:36.508 sort of tell you a little bit about it and the 0:02:36.508 --> 0:02:39.389 fact that, yes, there's hurdles to go over but it's 0:02:39.389 --> 0:02:42.389 not. Like you said, it is not as hard as I think people make 0:02:42.389 --> 0:02:44.220 it out to be. It's just a very different way 0:02:44.220 --> 0:02:46.020 of life that you just have to adapt to I think. 0:02:46.020 --> 0:02:48.990 Absolutely. And it's good that we've got you here to 0:02:48.990 --> 0:02:51.929 hear about everything that you are doing. So what does 0:02:51.929 --> 0:02:54.300 life look like for you now? So what work do 0:02:54.300 --> 0:02:56.639 you do and what does a typical week look like 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:56.969 for you? 0:02:57.089 --> 0:03:00.600 I am living in Bali in Indonesia at the minute. We got 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.330 a yearlong lease there, so that's where sort of home 0:03:03.330 --> 0:03:06.419 is I guess at the moment. I'm still doing the 0:03:06.419 --> 0:03:08.609 same work that I was doing when I was full- 0:03:08.610 --> 0:03:12.059 time employed, so I'm still doing B2B tech content writing 0:03:12.059 --> 0:03:14.520 but I've obviously just got my own client base that 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:16.799 I work with. I'm really lucky that I've got a 0:03:16.799 --> 0:03:19.919 lot of flexible clients. The time difference for Bali and 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:22.830 UK is seven hours, sometimes eight hours when we have 0:03:22.830 --> 0:03:27.328 daylight savings, so it's a little bit brutal. But everyone 0:03:27.330 --> 0:03:30.179 has been fantastic about having early morning calls in the 0:03:30.179 --> 0:03:33.570 UK and stuff so that I'm not joining calls at 1:00 0:03:33.750 --> 0:03:35.820 AM and that kind of thing. But obviously when it 0:03:35.820 --> 0:03:38.130 needs to happen, that's absolutely fine. In terms of a 0:03:38.130 --> 0:03:42.570 typical week, it depends on if I'm actively traveling or 0:03:42.570 --> 0:03:45.449 I'm back in my place in Bali, but I try 0:03:45.450 --> 0:03:49.259 to only work three days worth of hours a week if 0:03:49.259 --> 0:03:52.199 you like. I'm really trying to be kind of strict 0:03:52.199 --> 0:03:54.900 on that because one of the reasons I wanted to 0:03:54.900 --> 0:03:57.690 do obviously the whole digital nomad and remote working thing 0:03:57.690 --> 0:03:59.400 is to go out and see more of things. So it is 0:04:00.060 --> 0:04:02.639 very easy once you start getting your clients in and 0:04:02.639 --> 0:04:04.740 getting your money in and stuff to end up being 0:04:04.740 --> 0:04:06.960 stuck working Monday to Friday. And I think I've just 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.480 tried to be really, really strict with myself about not 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.839 going back into that. Needless to say, sometimes you do 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.930 have to do that. Sometimes where you are living or 0:04:15.930 --> 0:04:18.599 traveling to is more expensive and flights and accommodation and 0:04:18.600 --> 0:04:20.700 things add up and then you need to get more 0:04:20.700 --> 0:04:22.500 money in and that's fine. But one of the really 0:04:22.500 --> 0:04:25.440 nice things is if you need to have a month 0:04:25.440 --> 0:04:28.019 or two where you are living a bit cheaper, you 0:04:28.020 --> 0:04:30.178 need to sort of not have so many expenses and 0:04:30.180 --> 0:04:32.760 stuff. You can fly somewhere that's going to lend that 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.820 to you, so Bali's a great example of that. Flights yes, 0:04:35.820 --> 0:04:37.650 can be expensive depending on where you are, but the 0:04:37.650 --> 0:04:40.260 actual cost of living and the quality of living is 0:04:40.260 --> 0:04:42.359 a lot higher than in other places in the world. 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:46.230 Claire, you are really selling this to myself and everyone 0:04:46.230 --> 0:04:50.040 listening, three- day work week, get to see the sites. 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:51.540 And like you said, if things need to kind of 0:04:51.540 --> 0:04:53.700 cut back on money, you'd make that move. You are 0:04:53.700 --> 0:04:56.339 really selling it. So let's go into that a bit more. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.880 What have some of your high points been then and 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:03.870 what has surprised you on your journey into this digital 0:05:03.870 --> 0:05:04.709 nomad life? 0:05:04.799 --> 0:05:06.510 I would say some of my high points is some 0:05:06.510 --> 0:05:09.029 of the weird and wonderful places I've traveled to. I've 0:05:09.029 --> 0:05:12.089 been to Mauritania and West Africa. I spent a month 0:05:12.089 --> 0:05:15.450 in Pakistan. Places that you wouldn't necessarily think to go 0:05:15.450 --> 0:05:18.808 on vacation, but because you're traveling it is obviously more of 0:05:18.928 --> 0:05:21.330 an interesting place to go to and are far less 0:05:21.330 --> 0:05:24.089 traveled if you like. And it was amazing. But also 0:05:24.089 --> 0:05:26.520 the fact that on either side of that trip I 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:28.979 was just able to kind of just lock in and 0:05:28.980 --> 0:05:30.630 get my work done. And then I could take that 0:05:30.630 --> 0:05:32.460 month off and it was fine and I knew everything 0:05:32.460 --> 0:05:34.050 was going to be fine. And all my clients knew 0:05:34.050 --> 0:05:35.489 I was going to be off for a bit and 0:05:35.490 --> 0:05:36.988 I could just come back and get straight back into 0:05:36.990 --> 0:05:38.880 it. But yeah, I think that's something that I would 0:05:38.940 --> 0:05:43.830 perhaps elaborate on, find your nice easy clients and make 0:05:43.830 --> 0:05:46.200 sure that you build a connection with them. I think 0:05:46.290 --> 0:05:49.589 a lot of people are worried with remote work that 0:05:50.130 --> 0:05:51.750 it's all kind of email based and you don't really 0:05:51.750 --> 0:05:53.940 get to know anybody, especially as a freelancer I find 0:05:53.940 --> 0:05:56.370 that people are sometimes a little bit standoffish about that. 0:05:56.700 --> 0:05:58.948 And it's very different meeting someone in the office and 0:05:58.949 --> 0:06:01.140 doing that kind of thing, but just make sure you 0:06:01.140 --> 0:06:03.900 have kind of regular phone calls with people. And just 0:06:04.050 --> 0:06:06.539 have that personal element as well so that you are 0:06:06.540 --> 0:06:09.599 both seen as human, you're not just business entities doing 0:06:09.599 --> 0:06:13.049 a business transaction. I think that's really, really important. In 0:06:13.049 --> 0:06:18.059 terms of things that surprised me, I would say from 0:06:18.059 --> 0:06:20.190 a, it's kind of a digital nomad point of view 0:06:20.190 --> 0:06:22.650 but also a self- employed point of view, taxes to 0:06:22.650 --> 0:06:26.549 be honest. When I first went freelance I didn't earn 0:06:26.550 --> 0:06:28.349 as much in my first year. I didn't work for 0:06:28.349 --> 0:06:29.938 kind of six months. I saved up a lot and 0:06:29.940 --> 0:06:31.919 just wanted to solely travel so I only worked for 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:34.589 the latter six months of it, whereas my second year 0:06:34.589 --> 0:06:38.850 was very much traveling and working continuously. I did my 0:06:38.850 --> 0:06:41.040 tax bill a couple of months ago and was a 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.230 little bit surprised by that. So I'm having the fun 0:06:43.230 --> 0:06:45.150 thing of making sure I've got enough money to pay 0:06:45.150 --> 0:06:48.089 for that in January. So I think that's something to 0:06:48.089 --> 0:06:51.779 bear in mind whether you are digital nomading or kind 0:06:51.779 --> 0:06:55.170 of doing self- employed, that kind of thing, just do 0:06:55.170 --> 0:06:58.620 your homework on where you're working and your tax situation 0:06:58.620 --> 0:07:00.420 and who you need to pay for what would be I think 0:07:00.420 --> 0:07:03.510 a solid piece of advice that I wish I'd taken 0:07:03.510 --> 0:07:05.130 a little bit more notice of. But I've done that 0:07:05.130 --> 0:07:07.080 now, so hopefully the hard work's done for anyone else 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:08.279 thinking about it and listening, 0:07:09.330 --> 0:07:11.969 I think what you've mentioned there is really good. You've managed 0:07:11.969 --> 0:07:15.450 to do some incredible travels, that sounds like a dream, 0:07:15.450 --> 0:07:17.700 the places you've been and what you've done. But when 0:07:17.700 --> 0:07:20.040 it comes to the finance element and you mentioned taxes, 0:07:20.040 --> 0:07:23.370 we've spoken about it before in this podcast, but that 0:07:23.370 --> 0:07:27.239 is something that really does almost stump people especially when 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.909 you're self- employed. And it's great to see that obviously 0:07:29.910 --> 0:07:32.970 now you've got a bit more understanding. But I think a 0:07:32.970 --> 0:07:34.920 lot of self- employed people, myself included, have had a 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:37.890 similar journey where you go into it, everything's great and 0:07:37.890 --> 0:07:39.690 then the tax bill comes and then you're having to 0:07:39.690 --> 0:07:42.420 kind of work that one out. And just a reminder 0:07:42.420 --> 0:07:45.089 for our listeners, make sure that you're checking the tax 0:07:45.089 --> 0:07:47.999 and employment regulations in the countries that you're planning to 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.880 travel to, because each country has their own rules and 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.850 restrictions on this and it's always good to double check 0:07:53.850 --> 0:07:56.520 and see what's going on with those countries. It's also 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:58.619 worth noting that with national insurance, you may have to 0:07:58.620 --> 0:08:01.109 pay this if you think that there's any chance you may 0:08:01.110 --> 0:08:03.900 be returning back to the UK in the future. When 0:08:03.900 --> 0:08:07.200 it comes to your financial goals, Claire, how does working 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.630 abroad actually fit into those goals that you have? 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:12.720 I think it kind of fits in, so for example, 0:08:12.780 --> 0:08:14.130 I want to buy a house at some point. I'm 0:08:14.130 --> 0:08:16.469 30, I've not quite got there yet. I'm not sort 0:08:16.469 --> 0:08:18.120 of at the stage in life where I want to 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:20.309 get married and have kids and stuff, but yes, I 0:08:20.309 --> 0:08:23.039 would like to have a house in a few years. And 0:08:23.039 --> 0:08:26.310 I think sort of working abroad like I mentioned earlier, 0:08:26.310 --> 0:08:29.190 if you have a kind of financial goal like that 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.309 for a house deposit for example in your mind and 0:08:32.309 --> 0:08:35.009 you want to do that, it's very easy to live 0:08:35.010 --> 0:08:36.838 where it's a lot cheaper and you can save a 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:37.560 lot more money. 0:08:38.009 --> 0:08:41.219 I think everything that you shared in this episode has 0:08:41.219 --> 0:08:46.080 been really good at almost dispelling anyone, including myself, who might've 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:49.050 had reservations about moving abroad, what am I going to do 0:08:49.050 --> 0:08:50.849 for money? Where am I going to live? It's going 0:08:50.849 --> 0:08:53.160 to cost so much. I think there is that perception, 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:54.838 that idea that it will cost an arm and a 0:08:54.840 --> 0:08:57.690 leg when in reality you've shared of your journey that 0:08:57.690 --> 0:09:00.570 you're earning more, working less and paying less so you 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.780 can reach some of your financial goals. And Claire, you might've 0:09:04.020 --> 0:09:05.490 had me sold. I know that wasn't your aim, but 0:09:05.490 --> 0:09:08.400 you might've had me sold. Don't be surprised if the next 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.710 episode I'm going to be on a sunny beach somewhere. 0:09:10.860 --> 0:09:14.099 Everyone, don't be surprised. What do you wish you'd known 0:09:14.099 --> 0:09:15.419 before you made this change? 0:09:15.450 --> 0:09:17.250 I think there's three things that kind of jump out 0:09:17.250 --> 0:09:20.250 for me here. The first being just do your homework. 0:09:20.309 --> 0:09:22.260 So look at where you're going, look at where you 0:09:22.260 --> 0:09:24.718 want to travel, look at where you want to work 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.340 and just make sure you have the right things in 0:09:26.340 --> 0:09:28.410 place to be able to kind of do that properly. 0:09:28.410 --> 0:09:30.900 So look at things like where you need to pay 0:09:30.900 --> 0:09:34.348 taxes, so that obviously depends on your clientele and where 0:09:34.350 --> 0:09:37.170 you're working. And look at things like visas as well. 0:09:37.830 --> 0:09:40.500 Obviously if you're going somewhere where you're going to work 0:09:40.500 --> 0:09:42.750 online and you need a business visa for example, just 0:09:42.750 --> 0:09:44.820 make sure you've done the right sort of research to 0:09:44.820 --> 0:09:47.790 make sure that you are ticking all the boxes. The second 0:09:47.790 --> 0:09:50.189 thing I would say would be to have a safety 0:09:50.190 --> 0:09:54.240 net. Traveling is great but unexpected things do happen, so 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:58.230 expect them to happen and just be prepared. So if 0:09:58.230 --> 0:10:01.679 you need to have a last minute flight home or 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:03.958 you need to change your travel plans and that kind 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:05.399 of thing, just make sure you've got a bit of 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.610 money set aside to do that. If you don't, it's 0:10:08.759 --> 0:10:10.980 going to get very overwhelming very quickly. You don't want 0:10:10.980 --> 0:10:14.040 to be putting things on your credit card and it's 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:15.838 going to be a lot. So just make sure you've 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.880 got that sort of capital set aside for that I 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:22.679 think is really important. And thirdly, I would say choose 0:10:22.679 --> 0:10:24.240 a place where you're going to have a bit of 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.389 a community. There's some really, really great cities that I've 0:10:27.389 --> 0:10:31.110 been to that have got really, really, really good digital 0:10:31.110 --> 0:10:34.740 nomad communities in there and that's obviously why people go. 0:10:35.190 --> 0:10:37.410 Off the top of my head, Canggu in Bali which is 0:10:37.410 --> 0:10:40.230 where I live is a great example of that. Other places 0:10:40.230 --> 0:10:44.399 as well, Lisbon, and there was also Tulum in Mexico 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.080 is another place that I've been to that's got really 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.439 good digital nomad communities. And I think it's really important 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.380 to surround yourself with like- minded people, especially if you 0:10:52.380 --> 0:10:55.410 want to go down the digital nomad route. So a 0:10:55.410 --> 0:10:58.230 really, really good example of that, there's a pub where 0:10:58.230 --> 0:11:01.799 I live in Bali and on a Friday night everyone 0:11:01.799 --> 0:11:04.469 goes down there. But it's always really interesting because it's 0:11:04.469 --> 0:11:07.740 always people who are kind of starting their own businesses, 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.010 looking for inspiration, where they want to travel to next. 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.500 You'll probably find someone who is in the same field 0:11:13.500 --> 0:11:15.870 as you or someone who you would see yourself as 0:11:15.870 --> 0:11:18.120 having a client in that space and you can end 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:21.839 up working together. Everyone's really willing to help each other 0:11:21.839 --> 0:11:24.900 out and sort of provide that inspiration that you may 0:11:24.900 --> 0:11:27.600 need at that certain point. And if you are lucky enough that you are in 0:11:27.990 --> 0:11:30.090 the right place at the right time, you can give 0:11:30.090 --> 0:11:32.189 inspiration to other people who may need it at the 0:11:32.190 --> 0:11:32.910 time as well. 0:11:33.090 --> 0:11:35.879 To run off this episode, I ask every guest the 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.660 same question and I'm going to ask you, what three tips do 0:11:39.660 --> 0:11:42.328 you have in terms of being a digital nomad that 0:11:42.330 --> 0:11:44.370 will help our listeners get a little bit richer? 0:11:44.580 --> 0:11:47.250 The first thing I would say is just do it. 0:11:47.309 --> 0:11:50.070 Just give it a go. Don't wait until retirement to 0:11:50.070 --> 0:11:52.439 do all your travel dreams and that kind of stuff. 0:11:52.469 --> 0:11:53.939 Give it a go. If it doesn't work, it doesn't 0:11:53.940 --> 0:11:55.620 work. If it does, it's going to be the best 0:11:55.620 --> 0:11:59.160 decision you ever make. Secondly, I would say look at 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:02.340 what you can actually do feasibly, sort of working remotely. 0:12:02.550 --> 0:12:05.130 You need to remember that you're traveling around, you've only 0:12:05.130 --> 0:12:08.610 got so much space in a backpack. So picking something 0:12:08.639 --> 0:12:11.578 that is laptop based is great. Obviously I'm a content 0:12:11.580 --> 0:12:13.708 writer, I need a laptop. I don't need to have 0:12:14.759 --> 0:12:17.098 cameras and all that kind of stuff that might make 0:12:17.100 --> 0:12:18.900 it a bit harder perhaps to travel around for some 0:12:18.900 --> 0:12:23.010 people. And thirdly, I would say save up a bit 0:12:23.010 --> 0:12:26.370 first. When I left to go traveling a few years 0:12:26.370 --> 0:12:30.030 ago, I sold everything in my house and downsized everything 0:12:30.030 --> 0:12:31.769 to a couple of boxes that are at my mom's 0:12:31.770 --> 0:12:35.069 garage now. So that money really helped me. It made 0:12:35.070 --> 0:12:37.920 me feel a lot more secure. Moving to another country 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:40.590 and traveling around is quite a scary thing to do. 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:44.370 So having that money set aside was really nice for 0:12:44.370 --> 0:12:45.689 me to know that I have it and if I 0:12:45.690 --> 0:12:47.578 need to dip into it, I can. And if I 0:12:47.580 --> 0:12:49.950 don't, great, I can just continue saving. 0:12:50.759 --> 0:12:53.250 Claire, thank you so much. I'm excited to see where 0:12:53.250 --> 0:12:55.710 you're off to next. Somewhere hot and sunny I'm sure 0:12:56.100 --> 0:12:59.880 compared to where I am, chilly UK. But thank you 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:01.110 so much, it's been a great episode. 0:13:01.290 --> 0:13:02.879 Thanks a lot, Kia. It was nice to meet to you. 0:13:03.510 --> 0:13:07.259 Great to hear about Claire's incredible lifestyle. The podcast has 0:13:07.259 --> 0:13:09.660 taken a break for a couple of weeks for Christmas. 0:13:09.780 --> 0:13:12.270 But then a little bit richer we'll be back in the new 0:13:12.270 --> 0:13:14.490 year, where we'll look at how to create good money 0:13:14.490 --> 0:13:18.179 habits for 2024. In the meantime, if you're enjoying the 0:13:18.179 --> 0:13:21.840 pod, hit follow and tell your friends. See you in January.