Shirley Ballas: Hello, I'm Shirley Ballas and welcome to Rewirement, the retirement
Shirley Ballas: podcast from Legal & General. This is the series that explores
Shirley Ballas: how to reset, re- invent and rewire for the retirement
Shirley Ballas: you want. Each episode I'm joined by straight talking, honest
Shirley Ballas: retirees and would- be retirees with different experiences, hopes, and
Shirley Ballas: expectations for retirement. My expert panel will be here to
Shirley Ballas: help too, with ideas to help you feel confident, comfortable,
Shirley Ballas: and financially in control as you approach your own colorful
Shirley Ballas: retirement. Today, we're tackling the topic of making the big
Shirley Ballas: switch. How do you go from a lifetime of work
Shirley Ballas: to your ideal retirement without a bump?
Sue: I think men sometimes find it harder than women.
Shirley Ballas: It's about more than money as we'll find out.
Emma Byron: If someone asked me to think about what I'd be doing
Emma Byron: for the next 30 years, I'd have no idea.
Shirley Ballas: Thank you for downloading Rewirement, the retirement podcast from Legal &
Shirley Ballas: General. Here's hoping it brings you one step closer to
Shirley Ballas: your dream retirement. Today I'm going to be chatting with
Shirley Ballas: Emma Byron from Legal & General as well as entrepreneur Tricia
Shirley Ballas: Cusden of Look Fabulous Forever for their tips on the
Shirley Ballas: transition from full time work. Before that let's check in
Shirley Ballas: with our honest, straight talking team of would- be rewirees.
Shirley Ballas: Last time I caught up with John. He's retired and
Shirley Ballas: a member of his local amateur dramatic society in Sussex.
Shirley Ballas: Today, we're going to meet a couple of his fellow
Shirley Ballas: group members, Sue, who's retired, and David, who's still working
Shirley Ballas: and contemplating how and when to make the move to
Shirley Ballas: retire. Here's what happened when we got together. First, Sue
Shirley Ballas: and David told me a little bit about where they
Shirley Ballas: are right now.
Sue: Well, my situation is that I retired almost 10 years ago, so
Sue: I'm not working any longer.
Shirley Ballas: Are you enjoying the process of not working?
Sue: I am enjoying it. I'm enjoying the process of not
Sue: working very much indeed.
Shirley Ballas: And what kind of things do you get up to then?
Sue: I have an allotment. I have a garden, so I
Sue: spend a lot of time on them. I've joined the
Sue: U3A. I'm in four groups with them and one of them I'm learning Latin.
Sue: I'm in the natural history group. I'm in a walking
Sue: group, which is sort of long walks. I'm in a
Sue: natural history walking group as well. I do yoga. The
Sue: police neighborhood watch coordinator for part of my road. And...
Shirley Ballas: So it's safe to say you don't miss work then?
Sue: No, I feel I'm very busy and I have difficulty
Sue: fitting things in very often.
Shirley Ballas: And you, David?
David: Well, I'm actually still working. I'm still work full time, traveling up and
David: down to London for my sins. From what Sue's just
David: said, I think, I don't know whether I'm going to look forward to
David: retirement or not. It sounds more hard work than actually
David: working, but no, I mean, I'm actually looking forward to
David: retirement. I'm now conscious of the fact that it's something
David: that's coming up now. I'm 62 next month and I
David: realize that it is the sort of thing that a lot
David: of my colleagues are retiring or what's something I would
David: like to maybe do look at is maybe working part
David: time. So just continuing for two or three days a
David: week, but then giving myself the option to find things
David: outside of work to actually deal with. Because I often
David: thought that it was a bit unfair with people who
David: retire, that they just suddenly, one day they're working, the next day
David: they stop.
Shirley Ballas: And do you have things in mind that you want to do?
David: I do. Yeah. Like Sue, I enjoy gardening, but I'd
David: like to do a bit of traveling, not necessarily abroad,
David: but maybe around the country, because there's so many things
David: in the UK that I haven't seen or I've seen
David: through work, but this best out or maybe a hotel
David: window or something like that. So it'd be nice to
David: just maybe spend a few days in places to go
David: and see them, visit and have a look around these places.
Shirley Ballas: Remember John, from last time?
John: I'm John, I've been retired about three years. I'm married
John: with two grown up children.
Shirley Ballas: As a bit of a saver, John talked about his
Shirley Ballas: dilemma of not being sure about when to enjoy the
Shirley Ballas: money he'd set aside and when to continue his careful
Shirley Ballas: habits. I asked him about how he approached the leisure
Shirley Ballas: side of retirement.
John: I enjoy being able to do what I want to do
John: when I want to do it without restrictions on what I do, not having to
John: travel up to London, being able to, usually, go out when
John: I want to, without thinking about meetings. And it's a
John: lot more relaxing than when I was working. When I was about
John: to retire, I found that I was aching an awful lot.
John: Eventually it was decided that I got rheumatoid arthritis, which is
John: very much under control, but it does mean that some of
John: the things I thought I was going to be doing are difficult to
John: do. I think my advice to people would be to think about
John: whether you ought to be retiring when you're younger and, in
John: fact, when you're fitter.
Shirley Ballas: So, John, transitioning from full time work to retirement, how
Shirley Ballas: do you feel that's been?
John: It actually worked out well and not quite so well.
John: So, when I started work, our pension scheme said that I would retire
John: at 60. So, that was certainly the plan. So I
John: was 60 at the end of 2015, but that was when
John: I suddenly started to realize that my health wasn't as
John: good as it might have been because of my arthritis.
John: I worked from home for the last six months or
John: so of my employment because when things have moved forward, a
John: lot of my work I could do over the internet.
John: So, that's how I transitioned. And I was very fortunate
John: as well, that when I actually did retire, the arthritis was under
John: control. I've needed a couple of hip replacements because of
John: it. But in fact, that's been fantastic. Been really good.
John: So now I can move forward and start to enjoy
John: retirement more than I had been. It's something you very
John: much have to take into account that when I was working,
John: I was out of the house for 12 hours a day. Suddenly you
John: find that there's the two of you in the house
John: and you're here together all the time.
Shirley Ballas: I mean, that's a transition just on its own, isn't it?
John: Ever so much. Ever so much because if you're not
John: careful, you can very easily get the other's nerves. So my
John: wife likes to go out and meet friends for coffee. I go out
John: for lunch with friends of mine and see various people.
John: And so making sure that we have an active social
John: life, but I think we've always decided, Shirley, that although
John: there were a number of things we wanted to do
John: together, it was very important to have our own lives as
John: well, because otherwise you tend to run out of the things to
John: talk about if you're not careful.
Shirley Ballas: It sounds like you've really made the transition from full
Shirley Ballas: time work into retirement amazingly well. And also with your
Shirley Ballas: personal life and being with your wife at home full
Shirley Ballas: time, sounds like you actually have done extremely well.
John: Well, the other thing, Shirley, of course it is rather
John: nice is that rather than having to get up a quarter past six in the morning,
John: get down to the train station, getting the train London
John: Bridge every day, so the 45 minute journey. If I
John: want to get up at eight or half past eight now, I can do it, but you have to be careful
John: that you don't spend half the morning in bed.
Shirley Ballas: It sounds like getting the balance right in your relationships
Shirley Ballas: and your routine is just as important as making sure
Shirley Ballas: you have hobbies and plans to enjoy. David, meanwhile, has
Shirley Ballas: worked for the civil service for 42 years. He's confident
Shirley Ballas: about the financial side of his move to retirement, but
Shirley Ballas: he knows that's not the situation for most these days
David: With the younger generation, what they tend to do is
David: you say to them, " Have you thought about a pension?
David: Have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?"
David: And they just go, " Oh, I'll think about that in a few
David: years' time."
Shirley Ballas: I asked Sue what advice she give people when making their plans
Shirley Ballas: for retirement? Sue seems to be a master of hobbies
Shirley Ballas: and is enjoying colorful retirement. But is there anything she
Shirley Ballas: might have done differently?
Sue: It's very difficult because when I first retired, I retired in
Sue: the August and I was a bit of a loose end in
Sue: the winter as the winter came on. And I was
Sue: actually really quite sort of bored and wondering what to
Sue: do. So I hadn't really thought out what I was
Sue: going to do myself properly, but I would, looking back
Sue: on it, advise someone to give it some thought as
Sue: to what they wanted to do and how they were
Sue: going to set about.
Shirley Ballas: So think about it before you retire?
Sue: I think you should do. Yes. Yes. I mean, once
Sue: that autumn was over and I got to the following year,
Sue: I started actually doing things. So it was fine, but
Sue: I think some people who haven't got any interests and
Sue: I did have a lot of interests, it's just I
Sue: didn't do anything about them. Some people who haven't got
Sue: many interests, I think they find themselves a bit of
Sue: a loose end. I think men sometimes find it harder
Sue: than women. I don't know whether this is still so,
Sue: but in the past, a lot of men retired and
Sue: all their life was just work and they did nothing
Sue: else. And quite a lot of them just died after
Sue: they'd been retired for a few years because I think they must've
Sue: just got so bored and had nothing to do.
David: Thanks, Sue. That's something for me to look forward to.
David: Actually, don't you think it's a bit, like you said,
David: just now different people do different things? And some people
David: will plan out what they're going to be doing. Other
David: people will just go, "Well, I'll let it just wash over me
David: and I'll deal with it as and when it comes." And
David: I think the problem is sometimes it depends on, with
David: your retirement, is it something that you planned or is
David: it something that's unplanned? For example, my father is 87.
David: He's got a condition and I don't know if he's
David: going to sort of how many years he's got, but
David: I mean, it could be that suddenly I'm going to
David: have to suddenly think about, " Okay, well what do I
David: do now? Do I go part time? Do I retire?
David: What do I do?" So I think sometimes it's how
David: people had the approach that they have with regard to it.
David: And it's sometimes-
Shirley Ballas: Case by case scenario person.
David: Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. I think everybody has to sort of look
David: at it from their own point of view.
Shirley Ballas: Because I have to say I'm a little bit like you, David. I couldn't even
Shirley Ballas: possibly not imagine going to work. And fortunate in my
Shirley Ballas: industry, particularly that you can go all the way up
Shirley Ballas: to you pop your clogs as they say, because you
Shirley Ballas: can teach dance at any age. So I think where
Shirley Ballas: yours is gardening, mine can always be still dancing or
Shirley Ballas: teaching or something. I couldn't imagine. But now having listened
Shirley Ballas: to you also, Sue, I will be bearing in mind
Shirley Ballas: about hobbies and things and starting to get organized with
Shirley Ballas: things like that. Cause I don't think I'm overly organized
Shirley Ballas: with my retirement because you don't think it's coming, do you?
Sue: No, and it's there and you're in it and you've just got to grab hold of
Sue: it with both hands and get on.
David: I think if people can gradually go into retirement that
David: helps them to get more used to it and have
David: these hobbies building up around them. So that when the
David: one that when the day comes where they no longer have
David: to work or they retire, it is difficult for people
David: if they haven't got anything else apart from the day
David: to day work and they just got their state pension.
Shirley Ballas: That's why for them probably planning is the most important
Shirley Ballas: than pensions perhaps. So they have something when they retire
Shirley Ballas: are important. The trouble is that people think about it when it's too late, a little bit.
Sue: When it's actually happened and they're there.
Shirley Ballas: Sue, tell me about how you made the decision to
Shirley Ballas: move from full time work to retirement and what influenced the
Shirley Ballas: timings for you. And what about your partner? How did
Shirley Ballas: he feel?
Sue: About me retiring? No, he was happy for me to
Sue: retire with him. He'd retired. He's three years older than
Sue: me. He'd retired two years before I retired. The reason
Sue: I retired when I did is because the firm I
Sue: was working for in Haywards Heath, which was a very nice,
Sue: friendly, local brokerage was taken over by a much larger
Sue: company. The whole working ethos was very different and I
Sue: sort of hung on for two years till, and put
Sue: my state pension off for two years so that I
Sue: got more when I got that, and just hung on
Sue: then until I was 62 and then left with a
Sue: great deal of relief.
Shirley Ballas: Did you miss the structure and the routine of going
Shirley Ballas: to work every day?
Sue: Yes, I think I did. I mean, I was pleased to get out because of the
Sue: circumstances, but I did miss the routine of it all.
Shirley Ballas: I think when you've been in a job for so
Shirley Ballas: many years, did you find it a little frightening to suddenly going to
Shirley Ballas: retire and how you're going to manage and what are your finances now?
Sue: And also when you're married and you retire, you wonder
Sue: how you're both going to get on when you're in
Sue: the house? Yes, yes. I thought, " How will we get on
Sue: if we're forced into each other's company every day?"
Shirley Ballas: Because it's one thing seeing each other for half an hour in the morning and a little bit
Shirley Ballas: evening from five o'clock. There's another thing, 24/ 7 with
Shirley Ballas: your partner.
Sue: Yes, but no, it worked out very well because my husband
Sue: was doing a whole lot of things. He's always been
Sue: very much into music, so that was fine because he
Sue: did that and I did my own thing and it
Sue: works out very well.
Shirley Ballas: I love that. What about you, David?
David: Well, I'm going to be on my own, which is
David: a bit frightening.
Shirley Ballas: Don't you like your own company then?
David: I pretty much do enjoy my own company. I enjoyed gardening as
David: I said, but I do belong to other groups. I
David: belong to a local amateur dramatic group. I'm a belonged
David: to a choir. So I'm sure I will find other
David: things to do. I can fortunately drive so I can
David: get out and about. I just cannot imagine myself sitting
David: indoors all the time, doing nothing, but I'm a sort
David: of pretty active type of person who wants to do
David: things. But it's interesting what Sue was saying about work.
David: Various colleagues that have left and without fail, all of
David: them say, " I don't miss the work, but I will
David: miss the company and I will miss the people that I
David: work with." And I think that's an important thing because really you're
David: with these people, well for about seven or eight hours
David: a day and you get to know them. They get
David: to know you. And then all of a sudden when you
David: retire, you're sort of, as Sue said, you cast a drift
David: a bit and you're sort of "What do I do now?" And then you've got to build up sort of a group of friends as well.
Shirley Ballas: A new set of friends. New friends, new hobbies, and
Shirley Ballas: a whole new dynamic to the relationship with your partner.
Shirley Ballas: No wonder our guests had so much to say about
Shirley Ballas: making the leap from work to retirement. We'll be catching
Shirley Ballas: up with them next time. Joining me now, or two
Shirley Ballas: people with some great insights to share. Emma Byron is
Shirley Ballas: the managing director for Legal & General retirement income, which specializes
Shirley Ballas: in products to help people provide an income in their
Shirley Ballas: retirement, and Tricia Cusden became an entrepreneur and business owner
Shirley Ballas: in her rewirement years. She's the founder of Look Fabulous
Shirley Ballas: Forever, which provides beauty and cosmetic products, especially for mature skin.
Emma Byron: Hello.
Tricia Cursden: Hi.
Shirley Ballas: Thank you for joining me. Tricia, tell me about your
Shirley Ballas: journey to starting a business in your retirement years. Was
Shirley Ballas: beauty always a passion of yours?
Tricia Cursden: Makeup was always a passion of mine and, but I
Tricia Cursden: knew nothing about the beauty industry and in fact was very
Tricia Cursden: much an outsider to the beauty industry when I had
Tricia Cursden: the idea to start the business. It grew out of
Tricia Cursden: what was basically a very challenging year for me. So
Tricia Cursden: I started the business when I was 65, but the year before
Tricia Cursden: that, when I was 64, my daughter had given birth
Tricia Cursden: to a baby who was very sick. And I found
Tricia Cursden: myself really needed for practically every day during that year
Tricia Cursden: for one thing or another. When India, the baby, did
Tricia Cursden: eventually get discharged from hospital, which was when she was
Tricia Cursden: about 10 months old, Susie hired a special needs nanny
Tricia Cursden: because the baby has special needs. And I kind of
Tricia Cursden: didn't have a life to resume almost. I felt very
Tricia Cursden: low and very in need of a new challenge, let's
Tricia Cursden: put it that way. I was making sort of dates
Tricia Cursden: every day with a television. I was thinking, " Oh, I
Tricia Cursden: must get back because Countdowns go back to Stowe," which
Tricia Cursden: was not a very good use of my time. And I kept thinking, "
Tricia Cursden: I might live for another 30 years. I'm 65, but
Tricia Cursden: I could well live into my nineties. What on earth
Tricia Cursden: am I going to do with the rest of my
Tricia Cursden: life?" So I actually thought, what do I love? What
Tricia Cursden: do I enjoy? What do I miss? What would I
Tricia Cursden: love to have in my life right now? I was
Tricia Cursden: also quite exercised about the fact that the beauty industry
Tricia Cursden: could only talk to me through the language of anti-
Tricia Cursden: aging, which made me very cross. So I put all
Tricia Cursden: those things together and I thought, " Well, I love business.
Tricia Cursden: I love makeup. I'd love to do something different within
Tricia Cursden: the makeup arena for older women." And so I just
Tricia Cursden: decided to do it and set up the business.
Shirley Ballas: Wow. That's simply amazing. How is running a business at
Shirley Ballas: this age different to the career you had when you
Shirley Ballas: were younger?
Tricia Cursden: I think the thing about running a business when you're
Tricia Cursden: a lot older and you've got a huge amount of experience, is
Tricia Cursden: anything that crops up you've usually met before along the
Tricia Cursden: way. And that helps enormously. I mean, there is no
Tricia Cursden: question that by the time you reach 65, you're going
Tricia Cursden: to be extremely experienced in a huge number of ways.
Tricia Cursden: And I've what I feel quite strongly about Look Fabulous
Tricia Cursden: Forever is that it brings together everything that I have
Tricia Cursden: done into one very neat package. So for instance, we
Tricia Cursden: make videos for YouTube and they have been part of
Tricia Cursden: the sort of bedrock of the success of our business,
Tricia Cursden: especially initially. So making a video for YouTube would have
Tricia Cursden: been daunting for some people, but because I used video
Tricia Cursden: a lot in my life as a management trainer, I
Tricia Cursden: was perfectly comfortable being on video and also things to
Tricia Cursden: do with actually running a business, keeping an eye on
Tricia Cursden: cash flow and understanding how everything's sort of meshed and
Tricia Cursden: work together, was something that I'd experienced before. And I
Tricia Cursden: think the big difference was to do with risk. I've
Tricia Cursden: always been quite entrepreneurial, but when you're 65, you cannot
Tricia Cursden: risk the roof over your head. At the age of
Tricia Cursden: 65, when we needed extra money to help the business
Tricia Cursden: to grow, I knew that the solution to that was
Tricia Cursden: to go outside and ask other people for money, which
Tricia Cursden: is what we did. And fortunately the business was very
Tricia Cursden: attractive. So we raised money very easily, but it's very
Tricia Cursden: important, I think, if you're older and you're going to
Tricia Cursden: start a business venture that you do so within certain limits.
Shirley Ballas: Boy, what a story. Our rewirees talked about the transition
Shirley Ballas: in their relationships. How have yours changed in retirement?
Speaker 7: I think what's interesting. I now work with my two
Speaker 7: daughters. So what happened was I started the business and
Speaker 7: six months later, my older daughter, Anna rang me up.
Speaker 7: She was working as a PR consultant and she rang
Speaker 7: me up and she said, " Mum, this business is really interesting.
Speaker 7: And it's obviously doing brilliantly. Can I come and join
Speaker 7: you because there's a great story to tell here?" So
Speaker 7: I just said, " Well, there's no job and there's no
Speaker 7: money, but you can come if you like." So I
Speaker 7: didn't exactly incentivize her to join me, but she did
Speaker 7: join me. It was lovely because she came with a
Speaker 7: fresh pair of eyes. We then had to find a
Speaker 7: way to make that work for us because I'm still
Speaker 7: her mum and we still have to relate as mother
Speaker 7: and daughter. But at the same time, we were running
Speaker 7: quite a serious business together. And then my other daughter,
Speaker 7: the mother of India, the sick baby, she said, " You
Speaker 7: and Anna seem to be having a lot of fun.
Speaker 7: Can I come and join now?" We all have a
Speaker 7: good relationship with each other. We're good at talking out
Speaker 7: problems and stuff like that. And it's just been the
Speaker 7: most amazing fun. So instead of having less contact with
Speaker 7: them, I actually now have more contact with them and
Speaker 7: the five grandchildren that I've got, they live quite near
Speaker 7: to me. So I get to see them as well.
Speaker 7: And we've got an absolute iron rule that when I'm
Speaker 7: there, we don't talk about the business. So when I'm in
Speaker 7: their homes, the business is off limits.
Shirley Ballas: I couldn't think of anything more special actually, to be
Shirley Ballas: honest, listening to your story. It's really, for me, it's
Shirley Ballas: quite captivating. So congratulations on all you've done for sure.
Shirley Ballas: Hello, Emma.
Emma Byron: Hi.
Shirley Ballas: Hi, darling. What are the steps people should be considering
Shirley Ballas: before they retire?
Emma Byron: Well, I think, as Tricia mentioned, it can be quite a daunting
Emma Byron: prospect to look at the next 30 years of your
Emma Byron: life and work out what you're going to do and
Emma Byron: what money you're going to use and so on. So
Emma Byron: I think people should really just try to break it
Emma Byron: down a little bit and start with thinking about how
Emma Byron: they see themselves spending their life in the next five
Emma Byron: or so years. So will you be working? Maybe you
Emma Byron: want to carry on part time working. Maybe you want to
Emma Byron: volunteer. What hobbies will you take up and so on.
Emma Byron: So I think it's really important to just try and picture
Emma Byron: what your lifestyle will be like and have a bit
Emma Byron: of fun with it. Try to really imagine yourself enjoying
Emma Byron: your time not working and how'll you spend that. So I
Emma Byron: would say that's the first step for people to really
Emma Byron: think about rather than diving into straight to think about
Emma Byron: the finances, which can be quite scary for people. So
Emma Byron: I'd say start with the fun bit first.
Shirley Ballas: So making a decision, what you want to do in
Shirley Ballas: the next five years, keep it on a short term plan.
Emma Byron: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think if someone asked me
Emma Byron: to think about what I'd be doing for the next
Emma Byron: 30 years, I'd have no idea. I'd hardly have an
Emma Byron: idea beyond the next year, I'd say. So really, really
Emma Byron: think about the shorter term and how you'll live because
Emma Byron: of course people's lives over retirement will change significantly.
Shirley Ballas: Would you agree that a happy retirement is about a
Shirley Ballas: lot more than just getting the numbers right?
Emma Byron: Yeah, definitely. I mean, as I said, thinking what you're
Emma Byron: doing with your life, how you're going to spend your time is
Emma Byron: really the most important thing you know about retirement. Finances,
Emma Byron: of course, are a critical enabler for how much fun
Emma Byron: you're going to be able to have in your retirement,
Emma Byron: so you do need to also take stock of your
Emma Byron: finances. Think about all of the assets that you have. What
Emma Byron: assets do you have that are going to provide you
Emma Byron: with some form of income? What other assets have you
Emma Byron: got that you might want to tap into in later
Emma Byron: retirement? So maybe your home and so on? What benefits
Emma Byron: will you receive? What state pension will you get? You
Emma Byron: need to really sit down and take stock of all
Emma Byron: of those financial assets.
Shirley Ballas: Tricia, did you have it all figured out when you retired?
Tricia Cursden: Absolutely not. In fact, I think if India hadn't been born
Tricia Cursden: when she was in the way that she was, I
Tricia Cursden: suspect that I would just have slid into retirement in
Tricia Cursden: a way I'd just done slightly less and less of
Tricia Cursden: the kind of work that I was doing. And I
Tricia Cursden: don't think I would have had that moment, that I
Tricia Cursden: did have of almost existential crisis, which I definitely did
Tricia Cursden: experience because we're not often confronted with that. Although I
Tricia Cursden: suppose for some people ending their working life can create
Tricia Cursden: a kind of crisis because you have to let go
Tricia Cursden: of all that structure and time filling that work gives
Tricia Cursden: you, but in a good way. The kind of advice that
Tricia Cursden: I would give to somebody who is retiring or about
Tricia Cursden: to be retired is to give yourself lots and lots
Tricia Cursden: of space to explore all kinds of different possibilities. And
Tricia Cursden: sometimes asking those really challenging and difficult questions is a
Tricia Cursden: way to start to get clear about just what we
Tricia Cursden: want to do achieve, definitely giving yourself space, time, and
Tricia Cursden: not beating yourself up about not coming up with amazing
Tricia Cursden: ideas immediately. I think things will evolve. I'm in touch
Tricia Cursden: with a huge, huge group of older women. And I
Tricia Cursden: am staggered every day at just how brilliant they are
Tricia Cursden: and how brilliantly they are creating interesting lives for themselves
Tricia Cursden: in this, what I think of, as the last great adventure.
Shirley Ballas: What other creative ways have you heard of people making
Shirley Ballas: an extra income in their retirement? So all these amazing
Shirley Ballas: women that you spoke to in their late sixties or
Shirley Ballas: what have you, what have you heard from them?
Speaker 7: Well, one of the most inspiring is somebody who has
Speaker 7: always been very creative, but she'd never had time to
Speaker 7: sort of realize her true creativity. And she did a
Speaker 7: silversmithing course, which she absolutely loved, and started to make
Speaker 7: amazing jewelry, really beautiful jewelry. And she now makes and
Speaker 7: sells jewelry. I just think that's lovely.
Shirley Ballas: A lot of people miss the social life when they
Shirley Ballas: finish work, which is a big part of their identity.
Shirley Ballas: Do either of you have advice on how you can
Shirley Ballas: make that transition a bit gentler?
Tricia Cursden: I tell you what, one of the things that strikes
Tricia Cursden: me about a lot of the women that I talk to
Tricia Cursden: is that they are very sociable beings and they join
Tricia Cursden: a lot of clubs. So they join choirs and they
Tricia Cursden: join book clubs and they go to Zumba and they've
Tricia Cursden: got the most amazing social lives.
Emma Byron: Yeah. I mean, I guess, as Tricia says, it's about finding the
Emma Byron: things that you enjoy that are going to keep you occupied
Emma Byron: and make you feel that sense purpose. But I think it's also really
Emma Byron: important not to see retirement as this sort of big
Emma Byron: event where your life overnight changes. It's really a sort
Emma Byron: of transition that will take, for many people, a number
Emma Byron: of years, if they choose to slow down work and
Emma Byron: kind of gradually retire. So I think in the run up
Emma Byron: to retirement, if people are sort of daunted by what they're going
Emma Byron: to be spending their time doing, it's worthwhile looking at
Emma Byron: picking up new hobbies, volunteering, doing things that maybe you
Emma Byron: haven't had time to do before and starting to do
Emma Byron: those, those as you work your way up to retirement.
Emma Byron: I think volunteering is proven to be great for improving
Emma Byron: people's health and wellbeing. So it's a fantastic thing for
Emma Byron: a lot of people to do in retirement. And many, many do because
Emma Byron: they have that time to give back to society.
Shirley Ballas: Sue made an observation that she thought men can find
Shirley Ballas: it harder to make the transition to retirement. Do you
Shirley Ballas: think there are differences between the sexes in the way
Shirley Ballas: they approach this time?
Tricia Cursden: I do think there's a difference between the sexes. I think men
Tricia Cursden: find it a lot more difficult and challenging to be domestically
Tricia Cursden: based, let's put it that way. They really do miss,
Tricia Cursden: in a way that I don't think I particularly missed,
Tricia Cursden: just getting out there and bestriding the world as a
Tricia Cursden: Colossus kind of thing. I also think that men attach
Tricia Cursden: a huge amount to their status within a job in
Tricia Cursden: a way that women tend not to. But then I've
Tricia Cursden: got friends who are married to men who are incredibly
Tricia Cursden: happy to be retired and really have had enough of
Tricia Cursden: the corporate life and are more than ready for the
Tricia Cursden: next chapter. So I think it's very individual to a
Tricia Cursden: large extent.
Emma Byron: Yeah, I guess I'd probably sit more on the side
Emma Byron: of the men that Tricia decided that'd be quite daunting to the
Emma Byron: prospect of being domestic all the time, but I won't
Emma Byron: admit to being attached to my job title though. I
Emma Byron: think it's going to be different for different people. Some
Emma Byron: people adapt more easily. Some people respond to change better
Emma Byron: and that's male or female. So I'm not sure it's
Emma Byron: specifically men that would find it harder to transition into retirement.
Shirley Ballas: Has coronavirus changed any of this?
Emma Byron: I guess for those at the point of retirement today,
Emma Byron: it must feel like a sort of very strange situation
Emma Byron: to be trying to make long lasting decisions. There's a
Emma Byron: huge amount of economic uncertainty across the world. So really,
Emma Byron: it's very hard for people to be thinking about making
Emma Byron: longterm decisions, but I think it's still very, very important that
Emma Byron: people try to get to grips with what they've got
Emma Byron: in terms of their retirement savings. Make sure they're aware
Emma Byron: of how their funds have performed and the extent to
Emma Byron: which any fall in the stock markets hit their pension
Emma Byron: funds. I mean, it may be that some people want
Emma Byron: to defer retiring if they have had losses on their
Emma Byron: pension funds, that they want to give them time to recover.
Emma Byron: But for some people it won't be possible. They will
Emma Byron: want to still continue and proceed with retirement. So I
Emma Byron: think people should look online, use the tools that are
Emma Byron: available such as Pension Wise, which is the government's guidance
Emma Byron: service. And then people should really think about ensuring they
Emma Byron: can meet their basic expenses and their necessities. That might
Emma Byron: come from their state pension. It might come from a defined
Emma Byron: benefit pension, or they could use defined contribution pensions to
Emma Byron: buy fixed income sources, such as annuities. Annuities provide people
Emma Byron: with a guaranteed income for life. Interest rates are pretty
Emma Byron: low at the moment. So that does have a knock
Emma Byron: on impact on the annuity rates, which could make people
Emma Byron: hesitant. So an alternative to a lifetime annuity is also
Emma Byron: a fixed term annuity, where instead of taking the annuity
Emma Byron: for the rest of your life, you take it for
Emma Byron: a fixed period of time. So you could choose to
Emma Byron: just lock that in for three years, five years so that
Emma Byron: you can reassess things later on. The main message really
Emma Byron: to people, not to panic at the moment in the
Emma Byron: current situation. Retirement's a marathon, not a sprint. So any
Emma Byron: decisions you make now, you can always look to change
Emma Byron: those in the future.
Shirley Ballas: What are the other things you think people should be considering?
Emma Byron: So we talked about earlier, obviously thinking about your sort
Emma Byron: of aspirations and needs and goals for retirement. But I think
Emma Byron: then really we do need to turn to the finances and
Emma Byron: the best place to start is to build yourself a
Emma Byron: financial retirement plan, which I know might sound scary to
Emma Byron: some people. But again, I think breaking these things down
Emma Byron: into chunks is a good way to manage what might
Emma Byron: seem like a daunting task. So the first thing to
Emma Byron: start with is your basic needs. How much do you
Emma Byron: spend on food each week? What are your gas, electric
Emma Byron: bills and so on? Rent, if you have it, or
Emma Byron: any other household costs. You really want to make sure
Emma Byron: that you were guaranteed to be able to cover those
Emma Byron: for the rest of your life. For some people, the
Emma Byron: state pension might be sufficient to cover those basic needs.
Emma Byron: For others, what they consider to be essential spend might
Emma Byron: be greater than that. And therefore they'd want to look
Emma Byron: at other fixed income sources, a defined benefit pension, rental
Emma Byron: properties, which could provide you with that income source. Or
Emma Byron: you may want to look to convert some of your
Emma Byron: defined contribution pensions into an annuity or a fixed term
Emma Byron: annuity. So an annuity is a product whereby the insurer
Emma Byron: will promise to pay you a fixed amount of money,
Emma Byron: which you can have increasing with inflation or not for
Emma Byron: the rest of your life. So it provides you with
Emma Byron: that real assurance that you'd always, always be able to
Emma Byron: meet that essential spend. I think then, again going back
Emma Byron: to thinking of things in chunks, think about what you're
Emma Byron: going to do for that for the next three to
Emma Byron: five years. How many holidays are you going to have? What's the sort of aspirational items that you're going to need
Emma Byron: to spend money on? And I think there are, you're going to want a
Emma Byron: bit more flexibility. You may want to have some of
Emma Byron: your money in an income drawdown, put out where you
Emma Byron: can choose how much you take each time, but do
Emma Byron: remember with those products that once the money's gone, the
Emma Byron: money's gone so you will need to sort of make
Emma Byron: sure you bring some aside for later years as well.
Shirley Ballas: Amazing insight. Thank you, Emma. And thank you Tricia for
Shirley Ballas: sharing your inspiring story with me. I love that you're
Shirley Ballas: using your new start to make everyone else's so much
Shirley Ballas: more fabulous. You can find out more about retirement planning legalandgeneral. com/
Shirley Ballas: retirement. Next time we'll be talking about approaching retirement as
Shirley Ballas: a single person and possibly having a smaller pension pot
Shirley Ballas: than you would as a couple. How is it different
Shirley Ballas: and what does it mean for the plans and provisions
Shirley Ballas: you make before you get there?
Speaker 7: I think it might have been nice to have the option of
Speaker 7: thinking about reducing hours and I haven't got that option and
Speaker 7: I still got a daughter at university. So my salary is the salary.
Shirley Ballas: If you press the subscribe button on your podcast listening
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Shirley Ballas: it's available. I'll be back with our rewirees and Legal &
Shirley Ballas: General's Chris Knight will be sharing his advice along with
Shirley Ballas: behavioral psychologist, Joe Hemmings. Thanks for listening. I'm Shirley Ballas
Shirley Ballas: and I'll catch you next time.