Kia: Hey, this is Kia. Welcome to another episode of A
Kia: Little Bit Richer, brought to you by my friends at
Kia: Legal & General. Moving in with someone is a big decision.
Kia: Whether you are renting or buying, there's a lot of
Kia: things to think about. So today I'm joined by award-
Kia: winning family lawyer Yasmin Khan- Gunns. Yasmin's clients range from
Kia: successful business professionals, celebrities, and stay- at- home mothers to expats, couples moving
Kia: in together, and couples getting married. Yasmin is also the
Kia: woman behind the Instagram @ londonfamilysolicitor and shares guidance on some
Kia: of the tricky issues that lawyers can help with. She's
Kia: here today to talk us through what you should be
Kia: thinking about before moving in with someone, and ways you
Kia: can avoid getting into a sticky situation if the relationship
Kia: breaks down. Welcome, Yasmin.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Thank you. Great to be here.
Kia: So we are talking about moving in together, people moving
Kia: in, whether it's friends, family, or partners moving in. And
Kia: it is a lovely time, it's a great time and
Kia: people are happy and it's something that we should celebrate.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Yeah.
Kia: But there are things that we need to consider before
Kia: moving in.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Put it this way. You take out car insurance. You
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: take out life insurance. You take out house insurance. All
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: these things are important in case the worst happens. So
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: it's always good to be aware now before you begin
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: cohabiting, before you buy with someone, what could happen in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the future. See it as your insurance. This knowledge is
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: your insurance.
Kia: I love this. So to start us off, if someone's
Kia: planning on renting with someone, what should they be thinking
Kia: about before moving in?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: First and foremost, I think they need to be thinking
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: about affordability, because you want to make sure that the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: person that you are moving in with can afford their
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: payments towards the rent and can afford their payments towards
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the outgoings. And that's particularly important if you're going to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: be sharing, for example, bank accounts with them, because their
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: poor credit history could affect you. So that's the first
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: thing I'd think about. Second thing is tenancy agreement. Make
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: sure you read your tenancy agreement carefully. And also decide
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: whose name's it going to be in. Is it going
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to be in one person's sole name or is it
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: going to be in multiple people's names? So really have
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: those discussions first and foremost, because that affects your rights
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: and responsibilities under the tenancy agreement. Third thing is think
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: about the deposit. Who is going to pay for the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: deposit? Where's it going to be held? And what should
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: happen to the deposit in the event that the tenancy
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: comes to an end or if one person just wants
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to leave the tenancy agreement early? And finally, I think
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: importantly, is how you're going to split the costs. Talk
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: about who's going to pay the rent, in what proportions
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you're going to pay the rent, who's going to pay
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the utilities, the council tax. So really, it's important to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: have those conversations at the outset, open, honest communications, and
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: ideally have it written down somewhere, WhatsApp, email, written agreement, anywhere.
Kia: I know that a lot of people listening have probably
Kia: moved in with someone at some point and has not
Kia: had these conversations, but it makes a lot of sense.
Kia: But let's talk about after you've moved in, what are
Kia: some of the things that you should consider to make
Kia: sure that you're a little bit more protected? For example,
Kia: what can you put into place to make sure that
Kia: if there are any issues that arise, that are dealt
Kia: with fairly?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: I'd start with household budgeting. Who is going to pay
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: for the things that are every day? For example, the food
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: shop, the cleaning supplies, and the communal items. You want
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to be thinking about having an emergency fund. Maybe you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: are contributing into a pot every month, maybe 20, 30 pounds,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: so that in the event that something breaks, such as
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: a TV, who's going to pay for that? Then you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: should really be thinking about what happens if one of
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you, if you're renting with siblings or with friends, one
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: of you gets a new partner and that girlfriend and
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: boyfriend starts coming around more and more often. One day,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: two nights a week, three nights a week, and then
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: eventually they're pretty much living with you. How's everyone going
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to feel about that, and should that new partner be
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: contributing in any way? And I think finally, thinking about
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: exit strategies. What's going to happen if one person wants
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to leave the tenancy early? What happens to their share
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: of, say, the council tax from the part they were
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: living there or they moved out. And should they get
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: their deposit back? Or should they get it back now,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: later, or forfeit their deposit, and what's going to happen?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So there's some key things to think about. And I
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: think what really could help in the situation is if
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the people entering into the tenancy agreement consider having a
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: cohabitation agreement. And that's a document that can set out
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the answers to all of these questions, essentially, making it
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: really clear what should happen during the tenancy and in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the event that tenancy ends.
Kia: So a cohabitation agreement, you said it sets out what
Kia: that would look like, but does it need to be
Kia: formal? Do you need to go to a lawyer to
Kia: do that? Can you have one written out yourself? Can
Kia: you find a template online? What's the best way to
Kia: go about actually setting that up?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So just to clarify, a cohabitation agreement is an agreement
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: between two people setting out the financial and practical arrangements
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: during cohabitation and in the event that that cohabitation ends.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So that can include... And I'll go back to your
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: question in a second, but that can include things like,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: well, if you're buying a property with someone or if
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you're renting, how the rental payments will be dealt with,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: how the mortgage will be dealt with, what should happen
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to the sofa, the TV, the white goods? What should
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: happen in the event of a sale or the tenancy
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: coming to an end? It can include so many things,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: including pets. Usually you would go to a family lawyer to draft
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the cohabitation agreement. And the cost, it really depends. It
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: depends on the hourly rate of the family solicitor, but
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: it could be anywhere between 1,500 to 5, 000 upwards plus VAT,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: depends how simple or complex it is. But it's a
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: really, really useful tool to have because it makes everything
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: clear and it makes a separation process, if it gets
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to that, much easier.
Kia: Definitely something to consider. So we've spoken a lot about
Kia: renting then. If you're planning on buying with someone, is
Kia: there anything else that you should specifically be thinking about
Kia: before you move in?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: You need to really think about how the property is
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: going to be held. Is it going to be held in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: one person's sole name or is it going to be
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: held in joint names? You can hold the property in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: two ways in joint names. To make it really simple,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you can hold it as tenants in common or joint
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: tenants. Now, joint tenants is where you hold the property
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: 50-50, unless you have an agreement called a declaration of
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: trust stating otherwise. And a tenants in commons is where
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you could hold the property in specified shares. So for
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: example, X has 60%, Y has 40%. Or you can
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: also hold it as 50-50. It's slightly complicated, but you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: can have it as 50-50 or you can have it as specified
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: shares. Now the difference between joint tenants and tenants in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: common, and that's quite an important difference, is with joint
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: tenants, if you sadly pass away, your share of the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: property automatically goes to the other co- owner. Whereas tenants
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: in common, if you pass away, your share does not
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: automatically go to the other owner, it goes and passes
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: under whoever you've put in your will. Your parents, for
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: example, or your siblings. That's the first thing you should
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: consider, how you're holding the property. Secondly, how's the deposit
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: going to be funded? Is one person paying the deposit? Are
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: they both paying the deposit? And if they're both paying,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: equal contributions, not equal. If it's not equal, do you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: want some sort of an agreement to say that you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: get that money back if the property is sold, or are
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you happy for it just to be 50-50 and you kind of
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: forfeit the bigger amount? So think about your deposit. You
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: need to think about how the mortgage is going to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: be paid. Sometimes when one person is earning a greater
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: income, they may contribute a bit more towards mortgage. And
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: alongside that, how the utilities are going to be dealt
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: with. You also need to think about what happens if
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: one of you loses their job or there's an illness.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Will one person take over the mortgage payments and utilities
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: or not? To have these discussions really, really early on.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: And then you should be thinking about property maintenance, repairs.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Are you going to have a fund to deal with
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: that? You don't have the surplus income, it's a bit
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: tricky. So, something to think about. And then what happens
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: in the event that one person wants to sell and
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the other person doesn't? It happens. How would you calculate
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the buyout if one person was going to buy out
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the other? Lots to think about. And again, a cohabitation
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: agreement can really, really help here, setting all these answers
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: out in a clear agreement to make it super simple
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: for everyone.
Kia: There was a phrase that you mentioned earlier, and I want to
Kia: come back to it, declaration of trust. So I want to ask
Kia: you, what is a declaration of trust?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Ideally, you would enter into one when you're about to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: purchase a property. And a declaration of trust is a
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: specific legal document setting out how you and your partner hold
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: that property. So it would set out the shares in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: which you hold it, whether it's 50-50, 60- 40. It would
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: set out how the mortgage is being paid. So you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: could state this person's paying this amount in the mortgage
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: a month and this person's paying this amount in the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: mortgage. It would set out who paid the deposit or in what
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: proportions, and whether that deposit will be returned in the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: event of a sale or not. It can set out
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: things like who's going to pay the outgoings, who's going
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: to pay the utilities. And importantly, it can set out
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: what happens in the event that the couple splits up
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: and what happens in the event of a sale. So I'd say declaration
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: of trust is really important when you buy a property.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: And if you want to add to the declaration of
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: trust, then you enter into a cohabitation agreement. Because a
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: cohabitation agreement goes further, it gives more flavor to the declaration
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: of trust.
Kia: Oh, this is a lot to take in. A lot
Kia: of people, you don't really factor in everything. And it
Kia: is sometimes difficult to talk about money, but I think
Kia: here is highlighting some of the things that should be
Kia: spoken about, especially before doing something so big as buying
Kia: a property. It's a massive investment, so maybe having that laid
Kia: out can give both parties peace of mind. What happens
Kia: in the event that there is perhaps a couple who
Kia: have bought property together, maybe thought they'd be together forever,
Kia: but sometimes life happens and they end up splitting? What
Kia: happens to the property in that event?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So if it's being held in joint names, then the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: couple needs to look at how they hold the property.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So going back to holding it as tenants in common
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: or joint tenants. If they hold it as joint tenants,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: then the law presumes that the property will be split
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: equally, 50-50. If they hold it as tenants in common,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: then the law will look at what's written in the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: conveyancing documents. If something's written, for example, 60-40 split, then
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: that's how the property will be dealt with. If nothing's
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: written, then the law will presume 50-50. So looking at
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: that first determines what should happen. Then you need to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: discuss with your partner, do you want to sell or
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: is one person keen to stay in the property? Going
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: back to that, if one person is keen to stay
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: in the property and the other person will agree to it, then
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you need to work out a buyout calculation for that
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: person that's staying to buy out the person that's leaving.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Working out that calculation differs. Usually you could go to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: three estate agents to try and find the average value
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: of the property and then work out the calculation from
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: that. Or you can go to a surveyor and get
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: a more formal valuation of the property, which tends to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: be a bit lower than the estate agent value. Then
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: what should happen in the interim? Should the person that's
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: intending to stay in the property continue on the mortgage?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So discussing those interim arrangements. If there is a sale,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: however, the parties need to consider who they're going to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: appoint as their lawyers, conveyancing lawyers, their estate agents. And
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: eventually, the property will be sold or one person will
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: buy out. But if it's sold and one person's actually like, "
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Well, I don't really want it to be split 50- 50
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: because actually I've been contributing towards mortgage more than you.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: I want a greater share in the property." That can
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: happen. So if one person is seeking a greater share
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: in the property than the original purchasing documents, the burden of
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: proof is on them to show why.
Kia: And what does the law say then about how you
Kia: should divide up the stuff that you've bought or acquired
Kia: while you're together?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So it's a bit wishy- washy, because actually it really
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: depends on whether you can reach an agreement between yourselves.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: But generally speaking, personal possessions -- so that's your white goods, your
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: fridge, your freezers, your TVs, your sofas, all your kind of belongings
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: that are shared between you and the house -- if you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: can't deal with it by agreement, usually the person that
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: purchased the item will keep the item. But ideally you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: would reach an agreement between yourself. In terms of gifts.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: So by the very nature of their name, if someone
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: gifts you something, if your partner gifts you something, you're
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: generally entitled to keep that because it's a gift. So
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: jewelry, for example. If you're given a ring or something
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: like that, you keep the ring. When it comes to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: pets, it's quite an emotional topic. Sadly, or maybe surprisingly,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: they're treated like property, like any other possession. So if
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you can't reach an agreement on the pets, then what
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: happens is usually the person that the pet is registered
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: in, microchipped in, for example, keeps the pet. But all
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: of this could be put in the cohabitation agreement. You
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: can deal with it all in the cohabitation agreement. So
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: it would be advisable to look into that if you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: are thinking of living with someone.
Kia: So if you move in with your partner and they own
Kia: the place, where does that leave you if you were to
Kia: split in the future?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Not in a very good position, because if you are
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: unmarried, then your rights is extremely limited. So you move
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: into your partner's place and your partner's actually like, " Well,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: it's not working out. I want you to leave." Technically,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you could be out the door the next day. You
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: have no rights to live in that property because you're
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: not married. In terms of any financial claims you can
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: make over the property. Again, you have no financial interest
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: in that property, even if you've been paying the outgoings,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: sharing the council tax, sharing the gas and electricity bills.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: There are some limited exceptions. They are limited and they
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: are usually confined to if you make direct contributions towards the
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: mortgage or direct contributions towards the deposit, or if you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: pay for renovation works for the property that substantially increase
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the property. Then you may be able to claim something.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Difficult area of law. It's trust of land civil proceedings.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Legal advice would need to be sought as soon as possible.
Kia: So when you say direct contributions to the mortgage, that
Kia: isn't paying your partner your contribution, that is actually direct
Kia: to the mortgage company?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Well, it's a bit unclear. You wouldn't pay direct to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the mortgage company because the mortgage would presumably be in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: their name. But if you pay money to your partner
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: and the reference, for example, is towards mortgage, then that's
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: quite good evidence that you are paying towards mortgage. Whereas
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: if your reference was rent, your partner could argue, " Well,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you're not paying towards mortgage, you're paying me rent." So
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: it all kind of depends on what you're labeling.
Kia: Oh, such a gray area, isn't it? We've covered a
Kia: lot in this episode, and it's good to know the
Kia: things we should put in place to make sure that
Kia: we're all protected. I almost don't want people to be
Kia: scared. I feel like we've used a lot of big
Kia: words. We're talking about if you separate what might happen.
Kia: And I know that some people might be listening thinking, "
Kia: Oh, but I'm with my partner. I want to move
Kia: in." So we don't want to deter people and scare
Kia: them. It's just being aware of what you can do
Kia: to make sure that you're protected so then that blissful
Kia: time lasts long, and if it doesn't last, you are
Kia: still protected. But this has been really good, and I've
Kia: learned so much. So before we wrap up, I want
Kia: to ask you, what are your top three tips for
Kia: people to think about before moving in together?
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Choose your partner wisely. You want to make sure that
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you fully trust your partner. You're going into a big
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: thing with them, whether it's renting or whether it's purchasing
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: property. It's a big financial responsibility. You want to ensure that
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you completely know them and you understand them and that
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you know about their finances. You do not want to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: be entering into something with someone who's financially reckless. So,
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: trust your partner and choose your partner wisely. Secondly, you
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: want to be thinking about having and being able to
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: have open communication with your partner. If you can't have
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: open communication with them, it's going to be very difficult.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: You want to have communications and talk about what will
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: happen when you start living together and what should happen in
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the event that things might not work out. Have those discussions.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: And finally, I'd say be transparent about your finances. At
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: the outset before you've even purchased property or start renting
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: together, talk about your incomes, your liabilities, what credit cards
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: you have, what debts you might be in, and your
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: savings. Because you're being tied in financially with this person.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: You need to be aware, at least roughly, what their
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: financial background is.
Kia: That's some really good points. And we have learned a
Kia: lot this episode. So Yasmin, thank you so much for
Kia: joining us and imparting your incredible knowledge.
Yasmin Khan-Gunns: Thank you.
Kia: Lots to think about before moving in with someone. I'd
Kia: love it if you could review the podcast, spread the
Kia: word, and help others get A Little Bit Richer too.
Kia: Keep up with the show on TikTok and Instagram @legalandgeneral. Thank you for
Kia: listening. See you soon.