WEBVTT - RETIREMENT AMONG THE LGBT+ COMMUNITY 0:00:03.950 --> 0:00:07.780 Hey there, I'm Angelica Bell. And this is Rewirement, where 0:00:07.780 --> 0:00:11.309 we're sharing inspirational stories and ideas to help you achieve 0:00:11.309 --> 0:00:15.259 the retirement you want. We're all individuals with our own 0:00:15.260 --> 0:00:19.239 passions, plans, and dreams, and that doesn't change in later 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.450 life. And that's why I'm chatting to the experts for smart, 0:00:22.450 --> 0:00:26.180 financial, and practical steps to make your vision a reality. 0:00:27.900 --> 0:00:31.340 Time and time again, the colorful retirees we meet tell 0:00:31.340 --> 0:00:35.460 us how important their friendships, relationships, and social networks are 0:00:35.460 --> 0:00:38.650 for an enjoyable retirement. And that's something we'll hear more 0:00:38.650 --> 0:00:42.960 about today as we hear from two LGBT+ retirees on 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.129 how they made the switch from their working life to 0:00:45.129 --> 0:00:48.210 a happy and fulfilled later life. But this isn't the 0:00:48.210 --> 0:00:53.050 case for every LGBTQ+ person in the UK. If you're 0:00:53.050 --> 0:00:55.200 worried about how you might make the move, you're not 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.440 alone. Issues such as isolation, loneliness, and discrimination can be 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.310 a cause of concern if you don't fit the heterosexual 0:01:03.310 --> 0:01:06.330 image of retirement. But today we're playing our part in 0:01:06.330 --> 0:01:09.289 this conversation so we can support one another and feel 0:01:09.289 --> 0:01:13.350 supported ourselves, whatever our vision for later life. I'll be 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.439 joined by Legal & General's Meg Dickens and Matthew Riley from 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:20.559 Tonic Housing. But first, let's meet two more colorful retirees. 0:01:21.500 --> 0:01:24.450 In his own words, Patrick aims to make the most 0:01:24.450 --> 0:01:28.339 of every day and every year of his retirement. He 0:01:28.339 --> 0:01:31.630 was approaching 40 with a house, a wife, and two children, 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:35.030 when he came out and his marriage ended. At that 0:01:35.030 --> 0:01:37.339 point in life, he needed to think again about what 0:01:37.339 --> 0:01:40.429 retirement was going to look like for him. We started 0:01:40.429 --> 0:01:44.209 talking about how after 37 years of teaching, he made 0:01:44.209 --> 0:01:47.330 his love of travel a central part of his retirement plans. 0:01:48.070 --> 0:01:51.059 I've always had a love of travel. I've always wanted to 0:01:51.059 --> 0:01:55.070 travel. So when the opportunity came at 60, when I 0:01:55.070 --> 0:01:58.080 retired, my ambition of going to Australia and New Zealand 0:01:58.230 --> 0:02:02.140 was fulfilled. That was number one on my travel bucket 0:02:02.140 --> 0:02:05.130 list. And I was there for six months and did 0:02:05.130 --> 0:02:08.460 the most amazing things, saw the most amazing places, made 0:02:08.460 --> 0:02:10.579 lots of new friends, many of whom I'm still in 0:02:10.579 --> 0:02:13.429 touch with. I've been back three times since. So the 0:02:13.430 --> 0:02:16.739 travel thing, I've traveled to many countries in Europe. I've 0:02:16.739 --> 0:02:21.829 been to Singapore, to China, to south America, North America, 0:02:22.100 --> 0:02:25.260 been more proactive in some of the groups that have 0:02:25.459 --> 0:02:30.950 supported me throughout my years, so including my own local LGBT 0:02:30.950 --> 0:02:31.002 forum in (Berry) . 0:02:31.410 --> 0:02:34.130 So would you say that being single and heading into retirement, 0:02:34.669 --> 0:02:38.120 it sort of raises different issues and you have to 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:39.990 look at it in it with a different perspective? 0:02:40.250 --> 0:02:43.299 Yeah, I was married and I've had a male partner here living 0:02:43.370 --> 0:02:45.959 with me, but I have not had a partner here 0:02:45.959 --> 0:02:48.290 now for over 12 years. But one of the things I had to 0:02:48.290 --> 0:02:51.839 think about was starting my life again in a way 0:02:52.679 --> 0:02:55.209 when I came out as a gay man. So things 0:02:55.209 --> 0:02:59.869 like having my own place and starting again from scratch, 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.510 starting a mortgage, and that all impacted on my retirement 0:03:04.700 --> 0:03:07.739 potentially, because they were going to be expenses there to 0:03:07.910 --> 0:03:11.609 meet that I wouldn't have had to cater for otherwise. 0:03:11.609 --> 0:03:14.450 You know? So yeah, I've been quite savvy with my 0:03:14.450 --> 0:03:18.530 money. I think I've worked out my life retirement plan 0:03:19.179 --> 0:03:21.429 quite well so that I can do the kinds of 0:03:21.429 --> 0:03:22.829 things I want to do to be able to enjoy my life. 0:03:23.620 --> 0:03:27.549 With some people, with life change comes fear, especially when 0:03:27.549 --> 0:03:29.799 you're getting older. You like that sort of security of 0:03:29.799 --> 0:03:31.959 knowing what's going to happen, isn't it? 0:03:32.290 --> 0:03:37.740 Yeah. There's a certain element of apprehension there. You wonder how things are going 0:03:37.740 --> 0:03:41.869 to turn out. But as I said, I've received good 0:03:41.869 --> 0:03:44.900 financial advice. I mean, unfortunately my late ... my father died 0:03:45.130 --> 0:03:47.439 about nine years ago and my mum had already passed 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.960 away. So when Dad died, some money was left to 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:55.520 me and my two brothers. And my brother Doug was 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.500 still here. But that financial benefit, if you call it 0:03:59.500 --> 0:04:04.219 a benefit, allowed me to actually pay off any money 0:04:04.220 --> 0:04:07.029 I owed on my mortgage. And by that time of course, 0:04:07.030 --> 0:04:09.240 I was getting my teacher's pension with a lump sum, 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:13.310 etc. Good, sound financial advice, which I took. I set 0:04:13.310 --> 0:04:15.839 myself up so that I'm now comfortable in life and I can 0:04:15.839 --> 0:04:19.020 continue to do the things I want, paid off for. 0:04:19.710 --> 0:04:25.120 I've no real overheads so life is good. People are 0:04:25.120 --> 0:04:26.880 a lot worse off than me even though I'm single. 0:04:27.330 --> 0:04:30.800 Now, what suggestions would you make to anybody approaching retirement 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:32.830 as a single gay person? 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.210 It depends on the nature of the person. I think, 0:04:35.450 --> 0:04:38.510 first of all, you need to think about your financial 0:04:38.510 --> 0:04:41.539 situation. In fact, a good friend of mine was asking 0:04:41.539 --> 0:04:42.890 me a couple of weeks ago ... I'm in a gay 0:04:42.890 --> 0:04:47.189 walking group, whether you're a gay man or any other guy, whether you're single 0:04:47.190 --> 0:04:51.469 or married, I think you need to get good, sound financial advice. I 0:04:51.469 --> 0:04:53.130 had a certain pot of money that I needed to 0:04:53.130 --> 0:04:56.820 use well. But the other thing, apart from that, I'm 0:04:56.820 --> 0:05:00.900 an active social guy. So if you're that kind of 0:05:00.900 --> 0:05:05.599 person, there are lots and lots of activities. We're blessed, 0:05:05.599 --> 0:05:09.710 and greater Manchester is a very, very friendly, gay- friendly, 0:05:09.750 --> 0:05:13.270 LGBT city. And I've been involved in lots of LGBT 0:05:13.270 --> 0:05:18.739 organizations here, support groups, some of which I still go to. I line dance 0:05:18.740 --> 0:05:22.450 with a gay group. I walk with a gay group. 0:05:23.190 --> 0:05:28.210 They're not exclusively gay. But I also do theater and 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.770 all sorts of stuff. I think you need to have 0:05:32.770 --> 0:05:35.499 something connected to your own interests. If you like art, 0:05:36.020 --> 0:05:38.500 there's an art group. If you like reading, there's a 0:05:38.539 --> 0:05:41.299 literature group that you can go to and poetry groups. So 0:05:41.469 --> 0:05:43.210 I think you need to try and think what am 0:05:43.210 --> 0:05:45.339 I interested in? How can I get involved in the 0:05:45.339 --> 0:05:45.610 stuff that's actually there? 0:05:45.611 --> 0:05:50.060 And I think what you're saying there, Patrick, is to 0:05:50.060 --> 0:05:53.900 find hobbies and find a community where you can sort 0:05:53.900 --> 0:05:57.539 of immerse yourself in and find that camaraderie and that support. 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.870 You need a good support network. And I have that. I'm lucky to have ... I 0:06:01.870 --> 0:06:05.319 have some close family who care about me deeply. I've 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:10.260 got a really, really good set of friends and the 0:06:10.260 --> 0:06:14.559 groups I'm involved with, they keep me going. They're the 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:18.049 life and soul of my existence now really, something to 0:06:18.049 --> 0:06:20.869 look forward to. And it gives my week a structure. 0:06:21.070 --> 0:06:23.450 I think structure is a great word, really good. Now 0:06:23.450 --> 0:06:26.029 what about other plans for retirement? Because Patrick, you're not 0:06:26.029 --> 0:06:29.439 a couch potato. Those are your words. So I know 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.330 you must have something up your sleeve. What are you 0:06:31.330 --> 0:06:31.819 looking forward to? 0:06:32.630 --> 0:06:33.839 The main focus is going to be continuing my travels. 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:37.839 I mean, there are still so many places on my list. Last 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.789 year I was in Asia when the pandemic hit. I 0:06:39.789 --> 0:06:43.489 was in Vietnam and I had to come home with the rest 0:06:43.490 --> 0:06:46.250 of the tour group from there. So I want to complete that. 0:06:46.250 --> 0:06:48.820 That's high on the list to go to, complete the Vietnam, 0:06:48.820 --> 0:06:52.450 Cambodia, (inaudible) to Japan. I have a number of 0:06:52.740 --> 0:06:56.930 places that I still yearn to see and long to 0:06:56.930 --> 0:07:01.049 see before I get too inert to be able to 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.450 do long flights and so on. continue with the activities that 0:07:04.700 --> 0:07:06.500 I enjoy now. I love my line dancing. I've been 0:07:06.500 --> 0:07:10.570 line dancing for 25 years, and I do two groups 0:07:10.660 --> 0:07:13.280 a week of that. I do five hours of line dancing a week, one with 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.200 a gay group, one with a group here, a local 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.840 group here. And I'm becoming more and more involved in 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:19.720 my local LGBT forum as well. 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.860 Now, Patrick, like you said, you have been blessed with a 0:07:23.860 --> 0:07:29.550 teacher's pension, your mortgage is paid off. What other things 0:07:29.550 --> 0:07:32.420 have you got in place in your retirement to make sure that 0:07:32.420 --> 0:07:33.730 your financially secure? 0:07:33.830 --> 0:07:37.440 Obviously I have my state pension, so that's a go 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:42.180 to, every month anyway. So that's the basis. And then 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.960 the teacher's pension is there. But when I took my 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:49.320 teacher's pension, what I had to think about was, do I want a reduced teacher's 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:53.070 pension? The options were reduced teacher pension, a larger lump 0:07:53.070 --> 0:07:56.890 sum, which I could then invest with advice, or do 0:07:56.890 --> 0:08:00.840 I want a bigger teacher's pension, smaller lump sum? Which 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.819 again, I would have invested. But I felt I was comfortable 0:08:03.820 --> 0:08:08.009 enough to survive ... with no mortgage, to survive on a 0:08:08.010 --> 0:08:11.840 teacher's pension plus a state pension every month. So I 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:14.150 made the decision to take the bigger lump sum. As 0:08:14.150 --> 0:08:16.620 I said, the financial advice I received from an independent 0:08:16.620 --> 0:08:20.239 financial advisor who was recommended, and the firm had been 0:08:20.340 --> 0:08:24.410 excellent, was really, really good. And I can check my 0:08:24.410 --> 0:08:26.939 money, how it's doing. And I know that they ... even 0:08:27.179 --> 0:08:31.290 despite the pandemic and the 2008 crash and so on, my 0:08:31.290 --> 0:08:33.850 money's is doing well enough to allow me to do 0:08:33.850 --> 0:08:35.550 the kinds of things in life that I want to 0:08:35.860 --> 0:08:41.360 do and hopefully in future years, look after my grandson, 0:08:42.230 --> 0:08:46.020 see if my kids need anything. So I think ... I feel financially 0:08:46.020 --> 0:08:47.002 secure to be able to get (inaudible) . 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:55.010 What about a fallback for travel, health, insurance? Have you 0:08:55.010 --> 0:08:56.560 thought about that and taking that into account? 0:08:57.030 --> 0:09:01.390 Yes. It's actually a big thing in my life because 0:09:03.340 --> 0:09:05.670 I was diagnosed HIV positive about two and a half 0:09:05.670 --> 0:09:10.140 years ago, at the age of 68. I was actually ... 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:13.689 when I was diagnosed, the consultant actually said, " Wow, you're one of the oldest 0:09:14.420 --> 0:09:17.929 people we've ever diagnosed with this." With their help, I 0:09:17.929 --> 0:09:20.910 have dealt with it. I'm now totally virus free and have been for 0:09:20.910 --> 0:09:26.179 two years. But when I'm planning travel, I have to 0:09:26.179 --> 0:09:31.630 think about that, particularly because I take daily medication. So 0:09:31.730 --> 0:09:34.410 that's a big thing in my life. So traveling for 0:09:34.410 --> 0:09:36.739 maybe the length of time I've done before, six months, 0:09:36.970 --> 0:09:39.640 may be a bit difficult now. It may be that 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.760 I only have to travel say to Australia for three 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.679 months or so, which is still fantastic. But on the 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:50.839 whole, I'm a very healthy guy. I don't think I 0:09:50.839 --> 0:09:55.530 look 71 anyway. Once or twice, my GP has said, " 0:09:56.270 --> 0:09:58.709 How old are you?" And I said, "About 70, 70." He said, " 0:09:59.110 --> 0:10:02.890 Just rein back a little bit." He said, " You do 0:10:02.890 --> 0:10:04.459 more in your week," he said, " than I do." He 0:10:04.459 --> 0:10:09.550 said, " (inaudible) ." So never say never. There's no such 0:10:09.550 --> 0:10:12.130 word as never. I'm very happy with my life, with 0:10:12.130 --> 0:10:16.520 my friendship circle, with my activities. I can't complain. I'm 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:16.929 at peace with it. 0:10:20.329 --> 0:10:22.800 I have to say, Patrick's inspired me with his wise 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:26.390 words and outgoing attitude. Even if you're not a very 0:10:26.390 --> 0:10:30.359 active or social person, if you're single in retirement, it 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.559 sounds like sharing experiences with like- minded people is a 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.579 great way to pepper the structure and create a sense 0:10:36.579 --> 0:10:39.390 of community all of us need from time to time. 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.459 I also admire how Patrick has made the most of 0:10:42.459 --> 0:10:45.209 his pensions and the money from his father to make 0:10:45.209 --> 0:10:47.870 sure he has a solid foundation from which to enjoy 0:10:47.870 --> 0:10:52.160 his retirement and do those amazing adventures. He also told 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.760 me about the time he went, skydiving and white water 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:59.540 rafting. Next, we're going to talk to Annie. She's been 0:10:59.540 --> 0:11:02.650 with her partner Belinda for 25 years and they live 0:11:02.650 --> 0:11:06.229 in Stoke Newington in London. Now, Annie, I understand you're a bit of 0:11:06.230 --> 0:11:08.010 a go getter? My sort of girl. 0:11:08.150 --> 0:11:12.240 Well, I was a wild child in the '60s. And in 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.670 fact, I live in Stoke Newington in London, as you 0:11:14.670 --> 0:11:16.770 know. And the reason why I came back here is 0:11:16.770 --> 0:11:19.730 because I squatted here in the '60s. But it was 0:11:19.730 --> 0:11:23.050 very, very, very good experience and I wanted to come 0:11:23.050 --> 0:11:25.610 back and relive some of that freedom. 0:11:25.610 --> 0:11:27.410 Well, I know you love that part of the world, 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:30.030 and that when I say you have a zest for life, it's 0:11:30.140 --> 0:11:31.900 because you are active. And I'd love you to tell 0:11:31.900 --> 0:11:34.089 me a bit about retirement life for you with your 0:11:34.089 --> 0:11:36.869 partner, your family, your community, because you really just throw 0:11:36.870 --> 0:11:38.410 yourself into something, don't you? 0:11:38.610 --> 0:11:43.489 Yeah, well, I've always felt very strongly about people and 0:11:44.100 --> 0:11:48.530 communities and causes, I suppose. I mean, my working life 0:11:49.059 --> 0:11:52.100 was mainly in the health service. I managed various services 0:11:52.100 --> 0:11:55.589 in hospitals that often had a mixture between mental health 0:11:55.589 --> 0:11:58.679 and physical health, which became an interest. Did that for 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:00.489 quite a lot of years. Then I've now been in 0:12:00.490 --> 0:12:05.059 a long- term relationship with my partner Belinda for 25 years. And we've moved 0:12:05.059 --> 0:12:08.280 around the country, ending up in London just because we 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.489 fancied a move and fancied getting to different places. And 0:12:11.490 --> 0:12:13.429 I actually left the health service sort of in my 0:12:13.429 --> 0:12:16.179 fifties. And we fostered children for quite a lot of 0:12:16.179 --> 0:12:20.710 years. I suppose I retired from paid work when I was 60. 0:12:20.959 --> 0:12:25.140 I'm 70 now. And since then, I've been throwing myself 0:12:25.140 --> 0:12:31.130 into working around older LGBTQ+ people with a charity called 0:12:31.130 --> 0:12:35.389 Opening Doors and with our national helpline switchboard. You're right, 0:12:35.439 --> 0:12:38.660 I do throw myself into things and I suppose that's 0:12:38.660 --> 0:12:42.239 what I love. I love being around people and I'm 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.420 very fortunate to be able to choose to do that 0:12:44.420 --> 0:12:48.530 within the communities that I feel aligned to and where 0:12:48.530 --> 0:12:51.620 my life is. And London's a very good place for 0:12:51.620 --> 0:12:53.490 that. London is a very good place to be retired. 0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:56.929 It's good. It's good from the volunteer perspective, which I 0:12:56.929 --> 0:13:00.609 do a lot of. We have good health services here. 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:04.160 I can swim free in the local pool, I have 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:08.620 free drugs, but only the legal sort. Well, I'm very 0:13:08.620 --> 0:13:11.969 fortunate in that I have several pensions that have come 0:13:11.969 --> 0:13:14.939 from various aspects of my life. So in fact, I'm 0:13:14.939 --> 0:13:18.610 extremely comfortable. We don't have a mortgage anymore. And that's 0:13:18.610 --> 0:13:20.309 partly because we were left a bit of family money, 0:13:20.309 --> 0:13:24.129 both of us, just enough to polish the mortgage off. 0:13:24.170 --> 0:13:28.400 And my partner is still working. So yeah, we're fine. 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:32.790 We don't have very ambitious needs in terms of money. 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.129 We have a four bedroom terrace house. It's very nice. 0:13:36.130 --> 0:13:39.229 We supplement our income by letting them out with Airbnb 0:13:39.230 --> 0:13:41.749 when we can. So money isn't an issue for us 0:13:41.750 --> 0:13:44.929 really. And that is a very blessed position to be in. 0:13:44.969 --> 0:13:47.900 That means I can help my ... I have a daughter 0:13:47.900 --> 0:13:52.630 who is also a lesbian and she's 30 ... coming up 0:13:52.689 --> 0:13:55.069 39 this year and lives in London and they've got 0:13:55.069 --> 0:13:57.260 two kids so I'm able to help them out, which 0:13:57.260 --> 0:14:00.370 is great. So, no, money isn't a problem, but it 0:14:00.370 --> 0:14:01.770 wasn't planned really. 0:14:01.849 --> 0:14:03.420 So this is ... this just happened? 0:14:03.630 --> 0:14:07.300 Well, it's money that came to be via different means 0:14:07.300 --> 0:14:09.900 that I didn't plan. In fact, I was hopeless at 0:14:09.900 --> 0:14:12.770 planning really. So, as a younger woman, I worked for 0:14:12.770 --> 0:14:16.199 the health service and when I got pregnant with Lucy, I 0:14:16.199 --> 0:14:18.420 cashed my pension in for the NHS to buy a 0:14:18.420 --> 0:14:23.250 washing machine, which was a completely ridiculous thing to do. So 0:14:23.380 --> 0:14:25.869 I signed out of the NHS pension scheme, which was 0:14:25.870 --> 0:14:30.080 completely crazy. I signed back in, but by that time ... 0:14:30.850 --> 0:14:32.190 it's good job I haven't had to rely on my 0:14:32.190 --> 0:14:35.310 NHS pension really. So I do have an NHS pension, 0:14:35.310 --> 0:14:39.370 and I do have a fairly big private pension, and 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.680 I do have my state pension. 0:14:41.850 --> 0:14:44.320 You've given one piece of advice already. Don't opt out 0:14:44.320 --> 0:14:44.900 of pensions. 0:14:44.950 --> 0:14:49.500 Oh no! Don't do that. I never even thought about 0:14:50.190 --> 0:14:53.240 the fact that I would get on, get old and 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:57.390 I'd need ... and apart from that, the whole independence thing, 0:14:57.690 --> 0:15:01.560 for women particularly, it's just massively important that we maintain 0:15:02.100 --> 0:15:05.160 our financial independence, because you never know what's going to happen. 0:15:05.250 --> 0:15:07.970 We could say that you're one of the lucky ones then, because it doesn't 0:15:08.220 --> 0:15:10.240 always work out like that for people. 0:15:10.770 --> 0:15:14.110 It doesn't work out that, well at all. And I've 0:15:14.110 --> 0:15:17.070 got a big network of women friends who like me 0:15:17.070 --> 0:15:21.420 were involved in women ... in activism during the '80s and the '90s. 0:15:21.740 --> 0:15:25.710 They dedicated their time to ... quite often to working with 0:15:25.710 --> 0:15:29.749 their communities and not having a professional life. I was 0:15:29.750 --> 0:15:31.970 lucky to have a professional qualification. I could always get 0:15:31.970 --> 0:15:35.780 a job. And they didn't contribute to ... they didn't get 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:40.100 occupational pensions through their jobs and have ended up for ... 0:15:41.530 --> 0:15:47.170 in their retirement, in not good financial situation. Not good. 0:15:48.220 --> 0:15:52.470 Often at the behest of private landlords and on benefits. 0:15:52.710 --> 0:15:55.190 And yet women who've done masses with their lives. So 0:15:55.530 --> 0:15:57.560 yeah, that is a good message. It's a good message for 0:15:57.560 --> 0:16:00.870 all women, to think about that and if you can, 0:16:00.870 --> 0:16:03.810 plan for it because you need money as you get older. 0:16:04.109 --> 0:16:06.340 Living in Stoke Newington, I know we jested about you 0:16:06.340 --> 0:16:08.380 squatting there before and having this great lifestyle, but you 0:16:09.020 --> 0:16:12.620 have this wonderful community there, don't you? And it's important 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.640 for anybody thinking about retiring to have that backup, that 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.400 framework, to be able to walk out the door and say, " Hey," and 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:21.869 know that there's people there, isn't it? 0:16:22.109 --> 0:16:26.540 Well, it's massively important. And that's ... through the work that Opening Doors 0:16:26.540 --> 0:16:30.600 London does, that's entirely their agenda, which is around isolation 0:16:30.660 --> 0:16:33.270 and loneliness. What we do is get people together in 0:16:33.270 --> 0:16:37.040 groups. We've been running something like 50 social groups a 0:16:37.040 --> 0:16:39.330 month in London to get people together because that's what 0:16:39.330 --> 0:16:41.930 we need to do. We need to create social networks 0:16:41.930 --> 0:16:46.190 for ourselves. And sometimes those have been fractured as our 0:16:46.190 --> 0:16:49.810 lives progress. And we get on. Relationships break up. We 0:16:49.810 --> 0:16:53.359 might find that we've been in very sort of ... relationships 0:16:53.359 --> 0:16:57.680 where we've only needed each other or we've not kept 0:16:57.680 --> 0:17:00.680 those connections with other people. Interestingly enough, I think women 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:03.190 are better than this than men. Women are better at 0:17:03.190 --> 0:17:08.139 maintaining their networks, and working on it, and developing it. We 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.450 have many more men as members of Opening Doors, we've got 2, 0:17:11.470 --> 0:17:16.010 300 members, then we have women. They've found themselves in 0:17:16.060 --> 0:17:19.800 much more difficult situations, partly because they have such a 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.980 tough time with HIV and AIDS particularly. 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.830 Well, let's go into more depth about some of the 0:17:25.830 --> 0:17:30.330 particular issues that you see for the LGBTQ community who 0:17:30.330 --> 0:17:33.800 are reaching retirement age and have to navigate their way 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.570 through it. What have you noticed? And what are the 0:17:35.570 --> 0:17:38.310 particularly strong messages we can talk about now? 0:17:38.460 --> 0:17:42.070 Well, we've mentioned one and that's the loneliness and isolation thing. I think the 0:17:42.070 --> 0:17:48.040 other thing is the interface that everybody has to navigate 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.520 as we get older, and that's health and social care, 0:17:51.629 --> 0:17:54.949 having to be open about your life with people that 0:17:54.950 --> 0:17:56.609 you don't know who might come into your house to 0:17:56.609 --> 0:17:59.460 give you personal care, or when you go into hospital 0:17:59.460 --> 0:18:02.970 to be assumed that you're heterosexual and for people to 0:18:02.970 --> 0:18:06.760 treat you as if you are, and to talk about ... to ask 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:10.290 me where my husband is or anything like that. It's 0:18:10.290 --> 0:18:14.420 really, really tricky. And in fact, for our communities to 0:18:14.430 --> 0:18:18.259 face those difficult situations, quite often it means going back in 0:18:18.260 --> 0:18:20.919 the closet, which is not a good thing. So I 0:18:20.919 --> 0:18:24.609 think to have someone to advocate with you, for you, 0:18:24.940 --> 0:18:29.189 to have someone who's a friend, or even someone who's 0:18:29.619 --> 0:18:32.270 part of a charity to help you along with those 0:18:32.270 --> 0:18:36.249 difficult things, is pretty crucial. As a charity, we've advocated 0:18:36.250 --> 0:18:41.159 for a woman who was prayed over by a carer 0:18:41.159 --> 0:18:44.520 who came into her house, someone who had a carer 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.009 who came in who wouldn't touch her in the shower 0:18:46.010 --> 0:18:48.310 because they knew she was a lesbian. I mean, there's 0:18:48.310 --> 0:18:52.220 lots and lots of these situations. It's not something that's 0:18:52.220 --> 0:18:54.700 tackled in terms of training for health and social care 0:18:54.700 --> 0:18:58.270 stuff. That's a massive issue. I think the advocacy issue 0:18:58.270 --> 0:19:01.960 is something that we will work on as a charity, 0:19:01.960 --> 0:19:05.070 because we've certainly learned through COVID that people have been 0:19:05.550 --> 0:19:09.760 left very stranded, having to deal with things, whether it's 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.919 housing or benefits or health issues, or going into hospital 0:19:13.919 --> 0:19:16.550 and having nobody actually to look for them. I think advocacy is 0:19:17.619 --> 0:19:19.949 a big thing. That's the other issue. Where do you 0:19:19.950 --> 0:19:23.990 go to find someone who really understands your world? Who 0:19:23.990 --> 0:19:27.929 understands your background or the history of your communities? It's very 0:19:27.929 --> 0:19:29.619 much easier to go and sit and talk to someone 0:19:29.700 --> 0:19:31.220 you don't have to go and explain yourself when you 0:19:31.220 --> 0:19:33.540 walk in the door. You can build up a trusting 0:19:34.129 --> 0:19:36.879 relationship much quicker. So mental health is a big one. 0:19:37.149 --> 0:19:41.480 So let's talk about you and how you have set 0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:42.540 yourself goals. 0:19:42.590 --> 0:19:45.440 Yes, well, just to say ... I mean, I retired, as I say, about 10 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.459 years ago now. I've been very involved in volunteering, have a 0:19:48.470 --> 0:19:51.910 very big circle of women friends, and the swimming things. 0:19:51.970 --> 0:19:55.929 Well, I've got two replacement hips. So my health hasn't 0:19:55.929 --> 0:19:59.250 been exactly tip top, but I try not to let 0:19:59.250 --> 0:20:01.000 it get in the way. In fact, Monday is probably 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.080 not a great day for me to do this with 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:05.270 you, because I've just done an hour's yoga. And I 0:20:05.270 --> 0:20:08.969 tell you, it's a mixture of thinking, oh, well, this 0:20:08.970 --> 0:20:10.350 is good to be doing and it's good for me, 0:20:10.350 --> 0:20:13.350 but it's really depressing because you'd come across all these 0:20:13.350 --> 0:20:15.149 bits of your body that don't work as well as they 0:20:15.149 --> 0:20:15.710 used to do. 0:20:15.909 --> 0:20:18.609 You're joking. You've done yoga already, and you've got two 0:20:18.609 --> 0:20:20.870 replaced hips. After this, I'm going to get on it. 0:20:23.429 --> 0:20:25.409 But the swimming thing is quite fun because last year, 0:20:25.840 --> 0:20:28.879 before COVID struck, I had planned to go and swim 0:20:28.879 --> 0:20:32.190 in all the different lidos in London. Turns out it's 13 0:20:32.190 --> 0:20:34.450 or 14 of them, all the outdoor ones, because I love 0:20:34.450 --> 0:20:36.720 to swim outdoors. In fact, a friend bought me a t- 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:38.530 shirt with all the names of the lidos on the back, 0:20:38.530 --> 0:20:40.820 with a little square that you could tick when you had done 0:20:40.820 --> 0:20:42.669 it. So I've now got a plan to do that. 0:20:42.740 --> 0:20:45.399 Five of them I can cycle to in North London 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:47.470 and the rest I've got to go on public transport. 0:20:51.100 --> 0:20:53.969 Annie's looking forward to staying active with her long haired 0:20:53.970 --> 0:20:56.989 dachshunds, as well as meeting up with friends again after 0:20:56.990 --> 0:21:00.679 the pandemic restrictions. She said it's really important to keep 0:21:00.679 --> 0:21:03.929 up with your network of friends in later life. Sound 0:21:03.929 --> 0:21:06.980 advice there from two people who are very active and 0:21:06.980 --> 0:21:11.800 outgoing in their communities. So what about you? What's your 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.129 vision of later life? For some of the questions you 0:21:15.129 --> 0:21:17.669 might want to explore and for some sound tips on 0:21:17.669 --> 0:21:21.200 organizing your finances, I'm joined by Meg Dickens from Legal & 0:21:21.340 --> 0:21:25.149 General and Matthew Riley from Tonic Housing. So I'm going 0:21:25.149 --> 0:21:28.020 to start with you Matthew, because our guests are both 0:21:28.020 --> 0:21:32.770 very socially active people, but as you well know, not 0:21:32.770 --> 0:21:34.859 everyone is like that. And we heard from Annie how 0:21:34.859 --> 0:21:38.139 loneliness and isolation are issues that older LGBTQ people can 0:21:38.139 --> 0:21:42.629 face. How is Tonic Housing addressing this for different people? 0:21:42.850 --> 0:21:46.810 So Tonic was originally founded in 2014 to address issues 0:21:46.810 --> 0:21:51.159 of loneliness and isolation of older LGBT people and the need 0:21:51.159 --> 0:21:54.300 for specific housing and support provision. So since then, we've 0:21:54.300 --> 0:21:57.790 been working really hard to make LGBT+ affirming retirement communities 0:21:57.790 --> 0:21:59.859 a reality. And in March, you may have seen our 0:21:59.859 --> 0:22:02.770 announcement. We announced our first scheme will be opening in the coming 0:22:03.050 --> 0:22:06.040 months. We are a community led organization as well. So 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.999 rather than just be an LGBT+ friendly, we want our 0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:12.369 services to be actively affirming of the lives, histories, needs, 0:22:12.369 --> 0:22:14.090 and desires of LGBT+ people. 0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:17.369 Yeah. Well, Meg, you're listening to what Matthew is saying 0:22:17.369 --> 0:22:20.810