1 00:00:01,470 --> 00:00:03,810 Student 1: A real wreck to be honest. 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,729 Student 2: I didn't believe in myself. 3 00:00:05,730 --> 00:00:07,890 Student 3: I start panicking. It just goes against me because I 4 00:00:07,890 --> 00:00:09,389 Student 3: get really negative thoughts. 5 00:00:09,389 --> 00:00:12,148 Student 4: Everything you've done up to that point, that's all that 6 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,509 Student 4: you could have done now and that potentially might not 7 00:00:15,509 --> 00:00:16,020 Student 4: be enough. 8 00:00:16,829 --> 00:00:20,910 Krutika Adatia: Any of that sound familiar? Hello, I'm Krutika Adatia, and I'm 9 00:00:20,910 --> 00:00:24,900 Krutika Adatia: a chartered accountant who now supports students through their accountancy training. 10 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,340 Krutika Adatia: Deciding to pursue an accountancy qualification like ACCA is an 11 00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:32,489 Krutika Adatia: amazing first step on the road to an awesome career. 12 00:00:32,969 --> 00:00:36,209 Krutika Adatia: But we all know that it's a challenging journey. And as 13 00:00:36,209 --> 00:00:39,690 Krutika Adatia: an educator, I've seen it all. Maybe you keep putting 14 00:00:39,690 --> 00:00:42,600 Krutika Adatia: off booking your first exam, or you failed an exam 15 00:00:42,659 --> 00:00:45,420 Krutika Adatia: and can't bring yourself to try again, or maybe you 16 00:00:45,420 --> 00:00:48,360 Krutika Adatia: just need some support. Wherever you're at in your journey 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:52,409 Krutika Adatia: towards qualification, this new series from ACCA is here to 18 00:00:52,409 --> 00:00:55,440 Krutika Adatia: help you tackle the process head on. I'll be sitting 19 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,020 Krutika Adatia: down with experts to take a holistic look at how 20 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:01,350 Krutika Adatia: we can all better handle whatever life throws at us. 21 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,090 Krutika Adatia: From facing big challenges... 22 00:01:03,179 --> 00:01:06,179 Michelle Elman: I failed seven times before I passed, and that was 23 00:01:06,179 --> 00:01:06,991 Michelle Elman: seven times on automatic. 24 00:01:07,830 --> 00:01:09,630 Krutika Adatia: to taking care of tiny details... 25 00:01:09,900 --> 00:01:12,510 Sarah D Rees: Think about those little hits of dopamine, or having a 26 00:01:12,510 --> 00:01:15,539 Sarah D Rees: bar of chocolate in the kitchen where after I've done 27 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,149 Sarah D Rees: a certain task I can go and help myself to it. 28 00:01:18,420 --> 00:01:20,610 Krutika Adatia: And celebrating the triumphs along the way... 29 00:01:20,910 --> 00:01:23,340 Josh Wintersgill: I'll never forget, I came out of Sir Stelios' office 30 00:01:23,340 --> 00:01:25,889 Josh Wintersgill: and my dad was outside and we just basically high 31 00:01:25,889 --> 00:01:27,569 Josh Wintersgill: fived as soon as we got to the end of the road. 32 00:01:27,870 --> 00:01:31,169 Krutika Adatia: This is On Your Marks, because you'll never know until 33 00:01:31,170 --> 00:01:35,940 Krutika Adatia: you try. This time we are starting at the very beginning and that 34 00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:39,149 Krutika Adatia: is, w hy can it be so hard to start something new, 35 00:01:39,420 --> 00:01:42,029 Krutika Adatia: even if we want to? What is it about new 36 00:01:42,030 --> 00:01:44,759 Krutika Adatia: challenges that can either light us up or make us 37 00:01:44,759 --> 00:01:48,119 Krutika Adatia: shy away? And what might help us take the first step? 38 00:01:48,990 --> 00:01:51,720 Krutika Adatia: I remember when I started working as an accountancy tutor 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,500 Krutika Adatia: at a well- known college - teaching was absolutely my passion, 40 00:01:55,950 --> 00:01:58,349 Krutika Adatia: but I found it really nerve wracking. I was so 41 00:01:58,349 --> 00:02:01,860 Krutika Adatia: nervous before every class. Anxiety is still a work in 42 00:02:01,860 --> 00:02:04,590 Krutika Adatia: progress for me, especially when I'm doing something for the 43 00:02:04,590 --> 00:02:08,910 Krutika Adatia: first time - like hosting this podcast! So with me today, 44 00:02:08,970 --> 00:02:13,740 Krutika Adatia: I've got Michelle Elman. She's a five- board accredited life coach, author, broadcaster, 45 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:16,800 Krutika Adatia: and public speaker. She's an all- round expert in helping 46 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,490 Krutika Adatia: people face their demons and rise to their personal challenges. 47 00:02:20,969 --> 00:02:24,569 Krutika Adatia: So Michelle, have you ever struggled with something that you 48 00:02:24,570 --> 00:02:26,490 Krutika Adatia: know needed to get started with? 49 00:02:26,550 --> 00:02:28,860 Michelle Elman: Yeah, absolutely. The first thing that probably comes to mind 50 00:02:28,860 --> 00:02:32,309 Michelle Elman: is my driving license. I failed seven times before I passed. 51 00:02:32,340 --> 00:02:35,130 Michelle Elman: And that was seven times on automatic which, when I 52 00:02:35,130 --> 00:02:37,919 Michelle Elman: tell people that, they always think, " You really shouldn't be 53 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,190 Michelle Elman: on the road!" But I think anything unfamiliar, anything that 54 00:02:41,190 --> 00:02:43,830 Michelle Elman: you're doing new for the first time is not going 55 00:02:43,830 --> 00:02:45,870 Michelle Elman: to be automatic to you. You've got to have to 56 00:02:45,870 --> 00:02:48,660 Michelle Elman: learn a skill, whatever it is, whether it's driving or 57 00:02:48,660 --> 00:02:51,510 Michelle Elman: studying for an exam, and so you are not going to be 58 00:02:51,510 --> 00:02:53,819 Michelle Elman: good at it first. This notion that there will be 59 00:02:53,820 --> 00:02:56,309 Michelle Elman: a day where you'll be ready doesn't exist. And the 60 00:02:56,309 --> 00:02:58,349 Michelle Elman: perfect example was when I was training to be a 61 00:02:58,350 --> 00:03:00,960 Michelle Elman: life coach, we all graduated on the same day. And 62 00:03:00,990 --> 00:03:03,419 Michelle Elman: I had a class of maybe 20 people and I 63 00:03:03,419 --> 00:03:06,540 Michelle Elman: remember I launched my website within maybe a month. And 64 00:03:06,540 --> 00:03:08,400 Michelle Elman: a lot of my colleagues were like, " Oh, I'm still 65 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,548 Michelle Elman: perfecting the website." By the time one of my colleagues 66 00:03:11,550 --> 00:03:14,520 Michelle Elman: launched his website, I had already revised my website four 67 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,728 Michelle Elman: times because I had actually gone out there, got clients 68 00:03:17,910 --> 00:03:20,520 Michelle Elman: and altered and changed it according to what I was 69 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,250 Michelle Elman: actually seeing in the world. But because he hadn't adventured 70 00:03:23,250 --> 00:03:25,770 Michelle Elman: out there at all, he didn't know how to adapt it. 71 00:03:25,980 --> 00:03:28,469 Michelle Elman: Of course, when you're starting a new industry and you're 72 00:03:28,469 --> 00:03:30,870 Michelle Elman: starting a new job, you are going to learn things, 73 00:03:30,870 --> 00:03:33,239 Michelle Elman: you're going to learn things rapidly on the go, and 74 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:34,410 Michelle Elman: that was the way I was doing it. But he 75 00:03:34,410 --> 00:03:35,879 Michelle Elman: was like, " How do you have a full roster of 76 00:03:35,879 --> 00:03:38,160 Michelle Elman: clients and I've only just launched my website?" Well, because 77 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,160 Michelle Elman: I was willing to try, fail, and do it again. 78 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,380 Michelle Elman: And repeat that over and over until my website was 79 00:03:43,380 --> 00:03:45,599 Michelle Elman: the kind of website getting me the clients I wanted. 80 00:03:45,750 --> 00:03:47,969 Krutika Adatia: Reminds me of a quote actually that I think Mark 81 00:03:47,969 --> 00:03:50,490 Krutika Adatia: Twain has said, " The secret to getting ahead is getting 82 00:03:50,490 --> 00:03:53,309 Krutika Adatia: started." So that's a great example of that. 83 00:03:53,309 --> 00:03:56,309 Michelle Elman: It's absolutely that. Everyone was a beginner at some point. 84 00:03:56,610 --> 00:03:59,850 Michelle Elman: And it's going into it with the mindset of... Instead 85 00:03:59,850 --> 00:04:03,570 Michelle Elman: of this automatic pass or fail mindset, look at failure 86 00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:06,239 Michelle Elman: as feedback. I always think it's not a failure if 87 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,219 Michelle Elman: you actually learn from it, and you grow from it 88 00:04:08,219 --> 00:04:10,320 Michelle Elman: and you apply it to your next lesson in life. 89 00:04:10,379 --> 00:04:13,020 Krutika Adatia: Michelle, obviously when we have something like a setback like 90 00:04:13,020 --> 00:04:17,370 Krutika Adatia: this, often we're feeling anxious. Where is it that anxiety 91 00:04:17,370 --> 00:04:20,099 Krutika Adatia: potentially comes from in these situations? Can you talk to 92 00:04:20,099 --> 00:04:21,180 Krutika Adatia: us a little bit about that? 93 00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:24,509 Michelle Elman: Anxiety within life coaching is viewed as fear in the 94 00:04:24,509 --> 00:04:27,360 Michelle Elman: future. So if you think about anytime you've been anxious 95 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,549 Michelle Elman: in life, let's say it's a car crash. You are 96 00:04:29,549 --> 00:04:32,609 Michelle Elman: driving and you're worrying about your car crashing, your body's 97 00:04:32,610 --> 00:04:35,488 Michelle Elman: actually going to exemplify all those symptoms already as if 98 00:04:35,490 --> 00:04:38,879 Michelle Elman: the car crash is happening right now, because the brain 99 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,000 Michelle Elman: doesn't know the difference between real and imagined. The same 100 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,449 Michelle Elman: happens with an exam. If you're picturing yourself failing an 101 00:04:45,450 --> 00:04:48,510 Michelle Elman: exam, your brain doesn't know it's not happening right now. 102 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:50,670 Michelle Elman: It doesn't know that it's something you are imagining in 103 00:04:50,670 --> 00:04:53,400 Michelle Elman: the future because the picture in your brain is already 104 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,860 Michelle Elman: happening and your body's already reacting to it. So whether 105 00:04:55,860 --> 00:04:59,580 Michelle Elman: it's the sweaty palms, whether it's sweat in general, or 106 00:04:59,580 --> 00:05:02,400 Michelle Elman: whether it's that higher heart rate, the higher blood pressure, 107 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:04,859 Michelle Elman: whatever it is, it's already happening in your body now, 108 00:05:05,070 --> 00:05:09,060 Michelle Elman: which unfortunately then is almost counterintuitive, doesn't help you pass 109 00:05:09,060 --> 00:05:09,660 Michelle Elman: the exam. 110 00:05:09,930 --> 00:05:12,839 Krutika Adatia: That's interesting. So you're talking about the ways that anxiety 111 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,320 Krutika Adatia: can come across in terms of physiological reactions, right? 112 00:05:16,589 --> 00:05:18,359 Michelle Elman: It comes down to the fact that it's fear in 113 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,849 Michelle Elman: the future. So for you to create it you have 114 00:05:20,849 --> 00:05:23,009 Michelle Elman: to be thinking about the future, but if you actually 115 00:05:23,010 --> 00:05:26,040 Michelle Elman: stay present in the moment, then the anxiety can't exist. 116 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:29,880 Michelle Elman: So your anxiety about failing your exam can't exist if 117 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:32,400 Michelle Elman: you're sitting in your chair right now and focusing on 118 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,368 Michelle Elman: the pen in your hand, focusing on your breathing. That 119 00:05:35,370 --> 00:05:38,279 Michelle Elman: anxiety can only arise if the feeling and the sensation 120 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:39,690 Michelle Elman: in your body are one and the same. 121 00:05:39,719 --> 00:05:42,449 Krutika Adatia: It's interesting you mentioned the racing heart. I know when I get anxious 122 00:05:42,449 --> 00:05:45,480 Krutika Adatia: I get that racing heart, the butterfly feeling in my stomach. 123 00:05:45,810 --> 00:05:47,760 Krutika Adatia: How can I actually manage that? I know you talk 124 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,300 Krutika Adatia: about being present. What sort of strategies w hat can students 125 00:05:51,300 --> 00:05:54,390 Krutika Adatia: actually do? What can our listeners do to manage that? 126 00:05:54,630 --> 00:05:57,419 Michelle Elman: It's a twofold thing. You have two nervous systems. One 127 00:05:57,420 --> 00:06:00,479 Michelle Elman: is a stress nervous system called your sympathetic nervous system, 128 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,540 Michelle Elman: and a calm nervous system called your parasympathetic nervous system. 129 00:06:03,810 --> 00:06:06,539 Michelle Elman: The fastest way to get into your relaxed nervous system, 130 00:06:06,540 --> 00:06:09,900 Michelle Elman: so your parasympathetic nervous system, is to control your breathing, 131 00:06:10,110 --> 00:06:12,719 Michelle Elman: where your exhale needs to be longer than your inhale. 132 00:06:13,230 --> 00:06:17,309 Michelle Elman: If you change your breathing and you focus on that, it's an 133 00:06:17,309 --> 00:06:19,920 Michelle Elman: automatic sign to your body that you are safe, you 134 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,510 Michelle Elman: don't need to go into fight or flight. And when 135 00:06:21,510 --> 00:06:23,400 Michelle Elman: you're in fight or flight, that's when you're not going to be 136 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,250 Michelle Elman: able to access any information. If you look at it 137 00:06:26,250 --> 00:06:29,640 Michelle Elman: from an evolutionary perspective, if you are about to fight a tiger, 138 00:06:29,790 --> 00:06:33,779 Michelle Elman: your blood's not necessarily going to your cognitive processes where 139 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:37,050 Michelle Elman: you're able to think clearly because you are in that all or 140 00:06:37,050 --> 00:06:40,469 Michelle Elman: nothing mindset. So breathing is the first thing. But also, 141 00:06:40,470 --> 00:06:43,050 Michelle Elman: the other thing is if your brain wants to go 142 00:06:43,050 --> 00:06:45,899 Michelle Elman: to the future, then do it in a positive way. 143 00:06:46,589 --> 00:06:49,229 Michelle Elman: The two sentences I would ask yourself is, " How would 144 00:06:49,230 --> 00:06:52,139 Michelle Elman: I be feeling right now if I knew I was 145 00:06:52,139 --> 00:06:54,329 Michelle Elman: going to pass this exam and do the best I've 146 00:06:54,330 --> 00:06:57,180 Michelle Elman: ever done in any exam ever?" I make it very 147 00:06:57,180 --> 00:07:00,000 Michelle Elman: extreme because then your brain can't battle it. And then 148 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,150 Michelle Elman: the other thing is, " How would I leave the exam 149 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:05,639 Michelle Elman: if I knew I had done the best job I 150 00:07:05,639 --> 00:07:08,309 Michelle Elman: could do?" So it's about the present, but then it's 151 00:07:08,309 --> 00:07:11,219 Michelle Elman: also about the future. If you can imagine yourself walking 152 00:07:11,219 --> 00:07:13,440 Michelle Elman: out of the exam hall... This really helps if you 153 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,720 Michelle Elman: know what the exam hall looks like, so even if 154 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,970 Michelle Elman: you're standing right outside the exam hall and you're about 155 00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:21,360 Michelle Elman: to go in, just imagine yourself walking out the exact 156 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,280 Michelle Elman: same door and going, " Oh!" All of that relief. How 157 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,529 Michelle Elman: would you feel? You would feel relief. You would feel 158 00:07:28,529 --> 00:07:31,380 Michelle Elman: proud of yourself. And actually focusing on that. And if 159 00:07:31,380 --> 00:07:34,350 Michelle Elman: you find it hard to access those emotions, then all 160 00:07:34,350 --> 00:07:36,210 Michelle Elman: you need to do is go into your past and go, " 161 00:07:36,210 --> 00:07:38,040 Michelle Elman: When was the last time I was really proud of myself? 162 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:41,550 Michelle Elman: Maybe it was when I did my GCSEs." Go into 163 00:07:41,550 --> 00:07:44,759 Michelle Elman: that moment of opening that envelope, seeing your results and 164 00:07:44,759 --> 00:07:47,489 Michelle Elman: being so proud of yourself. Remember how you were feeling at 165 00:07:47,490 --> 00:07:49,470 Michelle Elman: the time, go back into your body at the time. 166 00:07:49,470 --> 00:07:52,830 Michelle Elman: Sometimes it helps closing your eyes, imagining yourself back in 167 00:07:52,830 --> 00:07:55,560 Michelle Elman: the body, opening it. How are you breathing? How are you sitting? 168 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,679 Michelle Elman: How are you standing? And then when you imagine it 169 00:07:58,710 --> 00:08:02,490 Michelle Elman: in the past, your physiology will mimic how you acted 170 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,699 Michelle Elman: back then. And so now you can feel that feeling 171 00:08:05,699 --> 00:08:09,030 Michelle Elman: of pride, feeling of relief in the present, but that 172 00:08:09,030 --> 00:08:11,429 Michelle Elman: means in the future you can imagine yourself walking out 173 00:08:11,430 --> 00:08:13,050 Michelle Elman: that door already feeling that way. 174 00:08:13,050 --> 00:08:15,540 Krutika Adatia: So when you're starting something new, what are some of 175 00:08:15,540 --> 00:08:18,030 Krutika Adatia: the factors that can make it really difficult to actually 176 00:08:18,030 --> 00:08:20,730 Krutika Adatia: get started with that new thing that you're starting off with? 177 00:08:20,820 --> 00:08:23,070 Michelle Elman: I think sometimes our goals are too big. So if 178 00:08:23,070 --> 00:08:25,410 Michelle Elman: your goal is to be an accountant, you are looking 179 00:08:25,410 --> 00:08:28,170 Michelle Elman: at so many mini goals within that and actually if 180 00:08:28,170 --> 00:08:31,380 Michelle Elman: you set a mini goal, it's a lot more achievable. 181 00:08:31,380 --> 00:08:33,689 Michelle Elman: You get the win from achieving the goal and then 182 00:08:33,690 --> 00:08:35,849 Michelle Elman: that gives you more momentum to go onto the next 183 00:08:35,849 --> 00:08:37,978 Michelle Elman: step. But when you're looking at the bigger picture, it can 184 00:08:38,130 --> 00:08:41,699 Michelle Elman: be really daunting and also uncertain because it feels like 185 00:08:41,699 --> 00:08:44,040 Michelle Elman: you need to know all the answers in order to 186 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,160 Michelle Elman: get there. But actually going through the process will reveal 187 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,310 Michelle Elman: answers and you might change your mind. So actually deciding, " 188 00:08:50,340 --> 00:08:52,978 Michelle Elman: Okay, what's the first step I need to do," and 189 00:08:52,980 --> 00:08:55,259 Michelle Elman: making a goal around that. And when you set goals, 190 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,870 Michelle Elman: you want to make it as specific as possible. So 191 00:08:57,870 --> 00:09:00,480 Michelle Elman: the date you want to achieve it by, what exactly 192 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:04,320 Michelle Elman: you want to achieve, and also some suggested ways as 193 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,120 Michelle Elman: to how to get there. Sometimes we don't know how 194 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,400 Michelle Elman: we're going to achieve a goal, but we just need 195 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:10,439 Michelle Elman: to figure out the first few steps so that we 196 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,780 Michelle Elman: can get on that road. And then it almost takes 197 00:09:12,809 --> 00:09:15,750 Michelle Elman: care of itself because it's all of that momentum. And 198 00:09:16,799 --> 00:09:19,858 Michelle Elman: you get that self- esteem from doing something rather than 199 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:22,710 Michelle Elman: waiting on that self- esteem appearing for no reason. 200 00:09:22,770 --> 00:09:26,520 Krutika Adatia: Now obviously we live in a society where we're constantly 201 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,240 Krutika Adatia: seeing other people and their life stories on social media. 202 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,990 Krutika Adatia: And when we think about our specific learners, especially when results 203 00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:36,720 Krutika Adatia: come out, we see results being posted on social media. 204 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:39,960 Krutika Adatia: That comparison is something that's obviously something we end up 205 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,010 Krutika Adatia: naturally doing. How can we stop ourselves from comparing? 206 00:09:44,340 --> 00:09:47,338 Michelle Elman: The interesting thing about comparison on social media, especially when 207 00:09:47,340 --> 00:09:49,770 Michelle Elman: it comes to work accomplishments, is that we see the 208 00:09:49,770 --> 00:09:53,279 Michelle Elman: accomplishment and we take it away from the context. There's 209 00:09:53,279 --> 00:09:56,790 Michelle Elman: often a lot of work behind any accomplishment that anyone 210 00:09:56,790 --> 00:09:59,610 Michelle Elman: posts on social media, but it's so easy to go, " Oh, 211 00:09:59,610 --> 00:10:02,490 Michelle Elman: it's really easy for them." And you have to be 212 00:10:02,550 --> 00:10:05,519 Michelle Elman: aware of the story you're telling yourself and actually go 213 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:07,349 Michelle Elman: back to what the facts are. The fact is they 214 00:10:07,349 --> 00:10:09,869 Michelle Elman: passed their exam, and you might be looking at that 215 00:10:09,870 --> 00:10:12,689 Michelle Elman: picture and feeling jealous because you've not booked yours yet 216 00:10:12,690 --> 00:10:15,750 Michelle Elman: you are too scared to book yours yet. And actually 217 00:10:15,870 --> 00:10:18,179 Michelle Elman: instead of looking at it as jealousy, look at it 218 00:10:18,179 --> 00:10:21,870 Michelle Elman: as inspiration that that's actually spotlighting something that you really 219 00:10:21,870 --> 00:10:25,230 Michelle Elman: desire as well. And actually, instead of looking downwards, which 220 00:10:25,230 --> 00:10:28,440 Michelle Elman: is often a jealousy perspective, looking upwards and going, " Good 221 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,119 Michelle Elman: for them, I'm really proud of them. I might not 222 00:10:30,119 --> 00:10:32,370 Michelle Elman: feel that way right now, but that's just spotlighting the 223 00:10:32,370 --> 00:10:34,559 Michelle Elman: thing that I need to work on. And I'd feel 224 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:36,988 Michelle Elman: too scared to book the test, but maybe this is 225 00:10:36,990 --> 00:10:40,260 Michelle Elman: the momentum I needed to actually hit that button and 226 00:10:40,260 --> 00:10:43,050 Michelle Elman: book it." And I think when it comes to booking tests, 227 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,078 Michelle Elman: you don't have to feel ready in that moment because 228 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,300 Michelle Elman: I think a lot of the time when it comes 229 00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:51,510 Michelle Elman: to taking that next step, we want to be confident 230 00:10:51,510 --> 00:10:55,588 Michelle Elman: already when actually the fear doesn't really disappear at any point. 231 00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:57,659 Michelle Elman: So I always say do it scared, the fear is 232 00:10:57,660 --> 00:11:00,179 Michelle Elman: not going to stop you unless you decide it can 233 00:11:00,179 --> 00:11:02,759 Michelle Elman: stop you. And Brené Brown often talks about how fear 234 00:11:02,759 --> 00:11:05,070 Michelle Elman: can be in the car, just not in the driver's seat. 235 00:11:05,070 --> 00:11:07,410 Michelle Elman: So don't let fear make the decision, but it's allowed 236 00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:08,220 Michelle Elman: to exist. 237 00:11:08,550 --> 00:11:10,500 Krutika Adatia: What role does confidence then play in this? Because you 238 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:12,450 Krutika Adatia: did allude to the point about you don't need to 239 00:11:12,450 --> 00:11:14,760 Krutika Adatia: be fully confident at that point, but can you talk 240 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,770 Krutika Adatia: to us a little bit about the role of confidence 241 00:11:16,770 --> 00:11:17,399 Krutika Adatia: in all of this? 242 00:11:17,490 --> 00:11:20,699 Michelle Elman: Well, I think confidence can be a lofty topic because 243 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,729 Michelle Elman: what is it really measured by? And I think ultimately 244 00:11:23,730 --> 00:11:26,730 Michelle Elman: what it comes down to is your internal monologue. And 245 00:11:26,730 --> 00:11:29,520 Michelle Elman: if you're having conversations about how rubbish you are or 246 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,220 Michelle Elman: how you can't study very well or how you have 247 00:11:32,220 --> 00:11:35,730 Michelle Elman: an awful memory, it can become a self- fulfilling prophecy. 248 00:11:35,940 --> 00:11:38,250 Michelle Elman: And so a lot of your confidence is actually down 249 00:11:38,250 --> 00:11:41,369 Michelle Elman: to believing in yourself and knowing that you're capable. But 250 00:11:41,369 --> 00:11:44,100 Michelle Elman: that doesn't mean you have to know you're going to 251 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:46,650 Michelle Elman: boss the exam. It's the fact that you need to 252 00:11:46,650 --> 00:11:49,920 Michelle Elman: be able to know that whatever happens, you'll be okay. 253 00:11:51,270 --> 00:11:53,250 Michelle Elman: And if it doesn't go well, you can take it 254 00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:56,009 Michelle Elman: again and that you're going to be confident enough to 255 00:11:56,009 --> 00:11:57,389 Michelle Elman: be able to take that risk. 256 00:11:57,509 --> 00:12:00,870 Krutika Adatia: So it's about quieting that critical voice in your head. 257 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:03,960 Krutika Adatia: Now I'm just thinking about learners that are coming through 258 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:08,578 Krutika Adatia: our accountancy qualification and potentially might have challenges like dyslexia 259 00:12:08,580 --> 00:12:12,240 Krutika Adatia: or ADHD. What would your advice be to the students 260 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,460 Krutika Adatia: struggling with these sorts of challenges? 261 00:12:14,490 --> 00:12:17,429 Michelle Elman: Figure out what works for your brain. So I went 262 00:12:17,429 --> 00:12:21,179 Michelle Elman: through the academic route and I found that really difficult 263 00:12:21,179 --> 00:12:23,640 Michelle Elman: as a dyslexic. And I struggled with that in my 264 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,490 Michelle Elman: own life and especially around exams. I just found that 265 00:12:26,490 --> 00:12:29,099 Michelle Elman: I never performed at my best because it was just 266 00:12:29,099 --> 00:12:33,390 Michelle Elman: not the best method for me to learn. I remember 267 00:12:33,540 --> 00:12:36,539 Michelle Elman: the time I was most insecure was the third year 268 00:12:36,539 --> 00:12:39,929 Michelle Elman: of university when it was high pressure, everyone's trying to 269 00:12:39,929 --> 00:12:42,330 Michelle Elman: pass their dissertations, and then we have exams coming up. 270 00:12:42,540 --> 00:12:44,429 Michelle Elman: And all my friends would go to the library from 271 00:12:44,429 --> 00:12:46,410 Michelle Elman: six o'clock in the morning and come back at 11 272 00:12:46,410 --> 00:12:49,799 Michelle Elman: o'clock at night, and I just couldn't. I didn't like studying 273 00:12:49,799 --> 00:12:51,599 Michelle Elman: in a library. There were too many people around me. 274 00:12:51,599 --> 00:12:54,960 Michelle Elman: It really distracted my brain. I also can't work that 275 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,380 Michelle Elman: consistently. So I can work for max 45 minutes, but 276 00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:00,449 Michelle Elman: I need a break. And what I actually found was 277 00:13:00,450 --> 00:13:02,700 Michelle Elman: the time I was most productive is if I did 278 00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:06,749 Michelle Elman: 45 minutes on, 45 minutes TV show, and I would 279 00:13:06,750 --> 00:13:09,120 Michelle Elman: alternate it. But the amount of work... And I still 280 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,670 Michelle Elman: use this today when I'm writing books. I will do 281 00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:13,860 Michelle Elman: 20 minutes of work now, and 40 minutes of a 282 00:13:13,860 --> 00:13:17,338 Michelle Elman: TV show. And that sounds so counterintuitive because the amount 283 00:13:17,490 --> 00:13:21,150 Michelle Elman: of time technically I'm working is shorter than the amount 284 00:13:21,150 --> 00:13:24,328 Michelle Elman: of time I'm relaxing. But in those 40 minutes, you're 285 00:13:24,330 --> 00:13:28,529 Michelle Elman: not relaxing, you're absorbing the information. Being creative. You're thinking 286 00:13:28,529 --> 00:13:31,828 Michelle Elman: of new ways, you're incorporating that new thing you're learning 287 00:13:31,830 --> 00:13:34,740 Michelle Elman: into the things you've already learned. Letting your brain rest is 288 00:13:34,740 --> 00:13:37,439 Michelle Elman: such a crucial part of it. And especially the way 289 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:38,970 Michelle Elman: they were going to the library at 6: 00 in 290 00:13:38,970 --> 00:13:41,910 Michelle Elman: the morning until 11: 00. My main thing was I needed 291 00:13:41,910 --> 00:13:43,770 Michelle Elman: sleep. I have a lot of chronic illnesses and if 292 00:13:43,770 --> 00:13:46,410 Michelle Elman: I can't sleep, I can't remember anything. But also there's 293 00:13:46,410 --> 00:13:48,269 Michelle Elman: no point in me going to the library with a headache. 294 00:13:48,510 --> 00:13:50,670 Michelle Elman: So if I needed an extra two hours of sleep 295 00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:53,280 Michelle Elman: to actually be able to remember the things, then I 296 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:57,000 Michelle Elman: was going to go do that. That last year forced 297 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,189 Michelle Elman: me to go, " Why am I trying to do it 298 00:13:59,190 --> 00:14:01,439 Michelle Elman: the way everyone else is doing it," and actually just do 299 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,870 Michelle Elman: it my way. And I passed my exams and I got 300 00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:07,080 Michelle Elman: a wonderful 2: 1 from Bristol and it was because 301 00:14:07,109 --> 00:14:09,330 Michelle Elman: I did it my way. Just because I worked less 302 00:14:09,330 --> 00:14:13,470 Michelle Elman: hours technically, doesn't mean I was working less productively. I 303 00:14:13,470 --> 00:14:16,589 Michelle Elman: was doing what was efficient for my brain. And I 304 00:14:16,590 --> 00:14:19,259 Michelle Elman: think sometimes we get so hooked up on the length 305 00:14:19,259 --> 00:14:22,379 Michelle Elman: of time you study rather than the quality of studying 306 00:14:22,379 --> 00:14:22,949 Michelle Elman: you're doing. 307 00:14:23,129 --> 00:14:25,620 Krutika Adatia: And that's a really important point, isn't it? Finding what 308 00:14:25,620 --> 00:14:29,280 Krutika Adatia: works for you. And that actually brings me on to another question 309 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,350 Krutika Adatia: that I wanted to ask, which is around the importance 310 00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:35,250 Krutika Adatia: of taking care of yourself during this time. How important 311 00:14:35,250 --> 00:14:37,590 Krutika Adatia: is that when you're going through a new challenge like 312 00:14:37,590 --> 00:14:38,760 Krutika Adatia: studying for an exam? 313 00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:42,029 Michelle Elman: I think exams particularly, there's this looming thing where you 314 00:14:42,029 --> 00:14:44,640 Michelle Elman: feel like anytime you take a break it could be 315 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:49,650 Michelle Elman: used more productively. And that's almost shaming yourself into not 316 00:14:49,650 --> 00:14:52,200 Michelle Elman: letting yourself rest. But I always say, " You can take 317 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,030 Michelle Elman: a break before you have a breakdown." And I think 318 00:14:54,030 --> 00:14:57,570 Michelle Elman: it's so important, especially when you're trying to remember huge 319 00:14:57,570 --> 00:15:00,390 Michelle Elman: amounts of information, you need your sleep more than ever. 320 00:15:00,570 --> 00:15:03,000 Michelle Elman: You deserve to take a break. And in that final 321 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,190 Michelle Elman: year of university, I remember my friends wouldn't even go 322 00:15:05,190 --> 00:15:09,180 Michelle Elman: for lunch. This is three months of us heavily studying. 323 00:15:09,210 --> 00:15:12,719 Michelle Elman: It was both the dissertation and also the exams. And 324 00:15:12,990 --> 00:15:15,059 Michelle Elman: you need to be able to go for lunch once 325 00:15:15,059 --> 00:15:17,159 Michelle Elman: in a while, like go out for a meal. Or 326 00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:20,610 Michelle Elman: even just having some time as housemates in our flat 327 00:15:20,790 --> 00:15:24,060 Michelle Elman: would've been lovely. But all day, every day, working non- 328 00:15:24,060 --> 00:15:27,450 Michelle Elman: stop is not the way to maximize your best potential. 329 00:15:27,719 --> 00:15:30,210 Michelle Elman: And I think understanding that just because you're taking a 330 00:15:30,210 --> 00:15:32,639 Michelle Elman: day off, or just because you're going out for lunch, 331 00:15:32,639 --> 00:15:34,739 Michelle Elman: or even going on a night out, doesn't mean you're 332 00:15:34,740 --> 00:15:38,250 Michelle Elman: lazy. It doesn't mean you're not being productive. Actually, that 333 00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:40,980 Michelle Elman: stuff works hand in hand with being able to perform 334 00:15:40,980 --> 00:15:41,580 Michelle Elman: your best. 335 00:15:41,670 --> 00:15:43,920 Krutika Adatia: I love that. And the phrase that you've just said, " 336 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,229 Krutika Adatia: you need a break before you break down," that's a 337 00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:48,420 Krutika Adatia: great one. I probably need to remind myself to do 338 00:15:48,420 --> 00:15:52,050 Krutika Adatia: a bit more of that when I'm feeling overwhelmed. So 339 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,360 Krutika Adatia: really, how can we get our students to get into 340 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:56,940 Krutika Adatia: the best pre- exam mindset then? 341 00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:59,340 Michelle Elman: Well, I think you have to be so conscious of 342 00:15:59,340 --> 00:16:02,850 Michelle Elman: the things that you tell yourself around, " I'm going to fail. 343 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,759 Michelle Elman: This is not going to go well." Being conscious of 344 00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:08,339 Michelle Elman: that and then trying to reverse it. So one of 345 00:16:08,340 --> 00:16:10,889 Michelle Elman: the things that I use within a lot of personal 346 00:16:10,889 --> 00:16:13,650 Michelle Elman: development is something I call evidences, where at the end 347 00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:15,900 Michelle Elman: of every night I write three things I'm grateful for, 348 00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:18,000 Michelle Elman: or three things I'm proud of, or three things I 349 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,920 Michelle Elman: learned that day would be a great one to do 350 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,400 Michelle Elman: around exams. And actually focusing on what you do know 351 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:25,860 Michelle Elman: rather than focusing on what you don't know. There's always 352 00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:28,260 Michelle Elman: going to be more to learn, but trying to go 353 00:16:28,260 --> 00:16:31,710 Michelle Elman: for the quantity of stuff you know is not always best. 354 00:16:31,770 --> 00:16:34,200 Michelle Elman: And sometimes you focus on all the other chapters there 355 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,080 Michelle Elman: are to learn, to read, all of that, when actually 356 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:39,240 Michelle Elman: you've already done so much. And if you don't focus 357 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:40,950 Michelle Elman: on what you already know and take some time to 358 00:16:40,950 --> 00:16:44,790 Michelle Elman: consolidate that, then going forward isn't going to be any 359 00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:47,609 Michelle Elman: more help. You haven't utilised what you've already learned. And 360 00:16:47,609 --> 00:16:49,560 Michelle Elman: so at the end of every day, if you can 361 00:16:49,620 --> 00:16:52,110 Michelle Elman: write three things you're proud of, or three things you've learned, 362 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,380 Michelle Elman: or three things that you did to make yourself proud 363 00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:58,230 Michelle Elman: or to impress yourself. Those are ways you can change 364 00:16:58,230 --> 00:17:00,239 Michelle Elman: that inner dialogue and make it more positive. 365 00:17:00,239 --> 00:17:02,849 Krutika Adatia: I love that. Just writing down what you've learned during 366 00:17:02,849 --> 00:17:05,490 Krutika Adatia: the day. And actually, I remember when I was a student, 367 00:17:05,490 --> 00:17:07,590 Krutika Adatia: that was a technique I tried to adopt. At the 368 00:17:07,590 --> 00:17:08,910 Krutika Adatia: end of the day be like, " Right, what are the five 369 00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:13,230 Krutika Adatia: things I remember?" That idea of repetition, being retention as well. 370 00:17:14,190 --> 00:17:17,250 Krutika Adatia: Thank you, Michelle. Before we wrap up, just wanted to ask, 371 00:17:17,250 --> 00:17:19,979 Krutika Adatia: are there three strategies that you could give us? I 372 00:17:19,980 --> 00:17:22,379 Krutika Adatia: know you've given us loads of golden nuggets through this 373 00:17:22,379 --> 00:17:25,680 Krutika Adatia: conversation but if you could give us three things that 374 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,070 Krutika Adatia: students can think about to manage their anxiety when they're 375 00:17:29,070 --> 00:17:30,570 Krutika Adatia: starting off, what would you say? 376 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,210 Michelle Elman: The first thing I would say is do a massive sigh. 377 00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:35,040 Michelle Elman: When you sit down at your desk to do the 378 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,559 Michelle Elman: exam do a massive sigh. It tricks your brain into 379 00:17:37,559 --> 00:17:40,590 Michelle Elman: thinking that it's already done. And then there's another thing 380 00:17:40,590 --> 00:17:43,200 Michelle Elman: called the psychological sigh, and that's when you do two 381 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,290 Michelle Elman: in breaths and one out breath. And you make the 382 00:17:46,290 --> 00:17:49,198 Michelle Elman: out breath more forceful, but the two in breaths... It's 383 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,049 Michelle Elman: called the psychological sigh because, again, it goes into that 384 00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:55,679 Michelle Elman: calm nervous system. Then if your brain starts going crazy 385 00:17:55,679 --> 00:17:59,039 Michelle Elman: or your brain just won't be quiet and you're sitting 386 00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:01,560 Michelle Elman: there and you're about to start the exam, something you 387 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,990 Michelle Elman: can do is you can focus on your senses. So 388 00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:06,240 Michelle Elman: five things you are touching right now, whether it's the 389 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,330 Michelle Elman: chair or the floor with your feet, or I'm touching 390 00:18:09,330 --> 00:18:12,388 Michelle Elman: the table. Focusing on what you can see, maybe you 391 00:18:12,388 --> 00:18:14,609 Michelle Elman: can see four things around you. Name four things you 392 00:18:14,609 --> 00:18:16,560 Michelle Elman: can see around you, obviously not out loud if you're 393 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,920 Michelle Elman: in the exam hall. What can you smell? What can you touch? What 394 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,438 Michelle Elman: can you taste? All of those things ground you into 395 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,290 Michelle Elman: the present and where you are right now. And then 396 00:18:25,290 --> 00:18:28,410 Michelle Elman: also try to enjoy it. That sounds so weird when 397 00:18:28,410 --> 00:18:31,169 Michelle Elman: it comes to exams, but actually going into it being 398 00:18:31,170 --> 00:18:34,589 Michelle Elman: like, "This is the time I get to prove myself." Rising 399 00:18:34,590 --> 00:18:37,290 Michelle Elman: to the challenge. Seeing it as a challenge rather than 400 00:18:37,290 --> 00:18:40,408 Michelle Elman: a threat to you. It's also the close of a 401 00:18:40,410 --> 00:18:43,619 Michelle Elman: chapter because if you've been studying, it's been so many 402 00:18:43,619 --> 00:18:46,198 Michelle Elman: months that, actually, this is the time... And if you 403 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:49,770 Michelle Elman: come into it with a bit more... Almost as if like " 404 00:18:50,099 --> 00:18:53,940 Michelle Elman: show me what you got!" attitude, as opposed to like, " Oh, 405 00:18:53,940 --> 00:18:58,230 Michelle Elman: this is really severe and serious. And if this doesn't 406 00:18:58,230 --> 00:19:00,750 Michelle Elman: work then I don't know what I'll do." That will 407 00:19:00,750 --> 00:19:03,599 Michelle Elman: put your brain into shutdown mode a lot faster than 408 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:05,759 Michelle Elman: looking at it being like, " This is a challenge and I'm 409 00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:06,480 Michelle Elman: going to boss it." 410 00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:10,020 Krutika Adatia: Amazing. Love that. Breathing, grounding, and enjoying the journey. 411 00:19:10,350 --> 00:19:10,770 Michelle Elman: Yes. 412 00:19:10,949 --> 00:19:12,480 Krutika Adatia: Thank you so much, Michelle. 413 00:19:12,510 --> 00:19:13,260 Michelle Elman: Thank you. 414 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,260 Krutika Adatia: That's it from this episode of On Your Marks. For 415 00:19:16,260 --> 00:19:23,369 Krutika Adatia: more information about ACCA exams, you can go to www. accaglobal. com/ exams. 416 00:19:23,638 --> 00:19:26,309 Krutika Adatia: And to watch the video version of this podcast, check 417 00:19:26,309 --> 00:19:28,890 Krutika Adatia: out the link in the show notes. See you next time. 418 00:19:29,340 --> 00:19:32,520 Krutika Adatia: I'm Krutika Adatia, and this has been On Your Marks.