WEBVTT - Property or Pensions - What’s The Priority? 0:00:01.770 --> 0:00:04.230 Hello and welcome to A Little Bit Richer, with me, 0:00:04.230 --> 0:00:07.110 Iona Bain, brought to you by legal in general. Now, 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.690 there's a lot of debate online about whether you should 0:00:09.690 --> 0:00:12.959 prioritize getting on the housing ladder or perhaps put off 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:16.350 the property dream to save more into your pension. With 0:00:16.350 --> 0:00:20.430 house prices rising and traditional retirement paths shifting, millennials are 0:00:20.430 --> 0:00:23.910 stuck in a financial tug of war. Should we prioritize 0:00:23.910 --> 0:00:27.030 our pension contributions so we have a more comfortable retirement 0:00:27.270 --> 0:00:29.760 or buy a home so we aren't paying rent in 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.669 our later years? Well, I can't think of anyone better 0:00:32.670 --> 0:00:36.059 to talk to today about this topic than consumer editor 0:00:36.060 --> 0:00:39.810 at the Financial Times, Claer Barrett. At the FT, Claer 0:00:39.810 --> 0:00:43.500 writes her weekly Serious Money column, presents the Money Clinic 0:00:43.500 --> 0:00:47.100 podcast and is behind the newsletter, Sort Your Financial Life 0:00:47.100 --> 0:00:49.379 out with Claer Barrett. She's also the author of the 0:00:49.380 --> 0:00:54.570 bestselling book, What They Don't Teach You About Money. Welcome, Claer. 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:56.190 Oh, thanks for having me, Iona. 0:00:56.340 --> 0:01:00.180 Claer, can you set the scene and explain why this 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.780 debate around property versus pensions has come about? 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.310 I think it's always been there, because saving for retirement, 0:01:08.459 --> 0:01:11.789 saving for a property, ask any young person at any point 0:01:11.790 --> 0:01:14.160 over the last 20 or 30 years, " Which one are you going 0:01:14.160 --> 0:01:16.650 to prioritize?" Of course it's going to be property because 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:19.410 we want to get on the housing ladder. We've seen 0:01:19.410 --> 0:01:23.280 what house prices can do and the impact of owning 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:26.250 an asset, which could rise in value. No guarantees, of 0:01:26.250 --> 0:01:28.500 course, that that's going to keep happening, certainly keep happening 0:01:28.500 --> 0:01:31.410 at the same rate in the future, but it's been 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:36.360 a one- way escalator for generations past. And you can 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:39.000 also tell your landlord to do one. And I think 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:42.420 for many people it's that that's the motivation, the insecurity 0:01:42.420 --> 0:01:45.270 of living in rented accommodation as well as the huge 0:01:45.270 --> 0:01:48.600 cost. Maybe you're living with your parents for longer in 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.540 order to save up for a property. These are all 0:01:51.660 --> 0:01:57.360 factors that are pushing young people towards prioritizing property over 0:01:57.420 --> 0:02:00.240 retirement, which seems like a very, very distant dream. 0:02:01.350 --> 0:02:04.320 And when it comes to pensions, a lot has changed 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:09.030 over the past 30, 40 years. Now, the responsibility is 0:02:09.030 --> 0:02:12.030 being put much more onto the individual, isn't it, in 0:02:12.030 --> 0:02:13.380 terms of saving for retirement? 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:16.410 Yeah, in the good old days, the sort of pension 0:02:16.410 --> 0:02:19.680 that you would retire with would give you an income 0:02:19.770 --> 0:02:23.340 like a salary every year of your life until you 0:02:23.340 --> 0:02:28.200 died. Nowadays, all of that responsibility for the vast majority 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.680 of jobs, unless you work for the public sector, teaching, 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.360 civil service, doctors, policemen, fire service, you'll still have one 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:40.290 of those more generous final salary pensions. If you're working 0:02:40.290 --> 0:02:43.739 in the private sector, it's got a much less generous 0:02:43.740 --> 0:02:48.060 pension system, defined contribution is what it's known as. So much jargon in the 0:02:48.060 --> 0:02:50.820 pension as well. But what it essentially means is you're 0:02:50.820 --> 0:02:53.820 paying him money, your employer's paying him money. You've still 0:02:53.820 --> 0:02:55.889 got a heck of a lot of tax advantages if 0:02:55.889 --> 0:02:57.750 you're saving money into a pension, but the end of 0:02:57.750 --> 0:02:59.790 the day you're going to end up with a pot 0:02:59.850 --> 0:03:02.760 of money that you've saved and invested, and hopefully grown 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:05.638 over the years, but it's up to you to decide 0:03:05.820 --> 0:03:07.980 what you want to do with it. So you've got 0:03:07.980 --> 0:03:10.830 to manage that money for the rest of your life. 0:03:10.950 --> 0:03:13.919 Now, this is where the pension versus property debate gets 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:18.750 a bit more interesting, because of course your biggest expense 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.139 right now, if you're somebody who's young and working, is 0:03:22.139 --> 0:03:25.590 likely to be your rent or your mortgage. Now, if 0:03:25.590 --> 0:03:28.410 you manage to get on the property ladder, mortgage payments 0:03:28.410 --> 0:03:31.590 nowadays a lot more expensive 'cause house prices have risen, 0:03:31.980 --> 0:03:34.679 but eventually you are going to pay that mortgage off, 0:03:34.770 --> 0:03:38.190 you would hope before you retire. And then, that's going 0:03:38.190 --> 0:03:39.930 to be a big cost that comes out of your 0:03:39.930 --> 0:03:42.390 budget. Whereas if you've never managed to get on the 0:03:42.390 --> 0:03:45.480 property ladder, you're going to have to fund a rent 0:03:45.510 --> 0:03:48.750 from any money that you save into your pension. So, 0:03:48.930 --> 0:03:53.010 this is a real concern to people who are maybe 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.580 a few decades out from retirement, haven't yet managed to 0:03:56.580 --> 0:04:00.870 get on the property ladder, and it just adds urgency to 0:04:00.870 --> 0:04:01.530 this problem. 0:04:02.070 --> 0:04:04.710 So saving for property can not just benefit you in 0:04:04.710 --> 0:04:07.020 the here and now. It could actually help with your 0:04:07.020 --> 0:04:11.730 retirement as well, but are there circumstances in which people 0:04:12.090 --> 0:04:15.600 might be better off renting and where there maybe isn't 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:17.970 that urgency to save up money for a home? 0:04:18.270 --> 0:04:19.920 Well, I means so much of this comes down to 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.950 your individual circumstances, but I think that the Bank of 0:04:22.950 --> 0:04:26.310 Mum and Dad really are the big unspoken in this 0:04:26.310 --> 0:04:29.640 conversation. Pretty much everyone who is in their 20s or 30s, if 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.500 they are getting on the housing ladder, are going to 0:04:31.500 --> 0:04:35.190 have some kind of help from their families. May not 0:04:35.190 --> 0:04:37.380 be Mum and Dad, it might be Gran and Granddad, 0:04:37.380 --> 0:04:39.900 but nevertheless, I think L& G has worked out in 0:04:39.900 --> 0:04:41.490 the past, the Bank of Mum and Dad is something 0:04:41.490 --> 0:04:44.219 like the seventh or the eighth- biggest mortgage lender technically 0:04:44.790 --> 0:04:46.980 in Britain if you were to rank them among them. 0:04:47.070 --> 0:04:50.339 Now, you might think, " Okay, well I'm not ready to 0:04:50.339 --> 0:04:52.859 buy yet." It's a lot of responsibility that comes with 0:04:52.860 --> 0:04:53.550 owning a home. 0:04:53.610 --> 0:04:55.710 And you can make the wrong decision, buy the wrong 0:04:55.710 --> 0:04:58.470 place at the wrong time, and make a big loss. 0:04:58.500 --> 0:05:01.920 Yeah, and also the transaction costs. If you're not sure 0:05:01.980 --> 0:05:04.440 about what area you want to settle in and live, 0:05:04.830 --> 0:05:06.690 if you buy somewhere and then sell it and buy 0:05:06.690 --> 0:05:08.310 again, you're going to be hit with two lots of 0:05:08.310 --> 0:05:11.760 stamp duty. So, it doesn't pay to hurry when you're 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.810 making decisions about property. But increasingly younger people, Gen Z 0:05:15.900 --> 0:05:20.670 as they're known, are thinking more about investing first rather 0:05:20.670 --> 0:05:24.089 than saving in cash and saving for a property. Because they 0:05:24.089 --> 0:05:26.430 know if they haven't got any help coming from their 0:05:26.430 --> 0:05:30.029 family, just saving in cash and getting the interest on 0:05:30.029 --> 0:05:32.190 a cash savings account is not going to be enough 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.350 to get them there. So I've seen a couple of 0:05:34.350 --> 0:05:37.740 surveys come across my desk, big surveys in the last 0:05:37.740 --> 0:05:39.630 couple of months at the FT that have said that 0:05:39.660 --> 0:05:44.610 Generation Z are the most active generation when it comes 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.729 to investing money in the stock market, using stocks and 0:05:47.730 --> 0:05:50.940 shares, ISAs, so it's still tax efficient. And hoping that 0:05:50.940 --> 0:05:54.300 in the long term that will give them more bang 0:05:54.300 --> 0:05:57.000 for their buck to help them get on the property. 0:05:58.110 --> 0:06:00.599 One other little factette that I'll slip in, 'cause this 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:02.400 is something that I used when I got on the 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:06.240 property ladder in my late 20s, there's a government scheme 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:09.630 called the Rent a Room Scheme. If you let out 0:06:09.630 --> 0:06:12.659 a furnished room in your home, it doesn't have to 0:06:12.660 --> 0:06:15.270 be permanently to a lodger, although that's what I did, 0:06:15.870 --> 0:06:19.440 you could do Airbnb and be renting it out during 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.409 the week, for example. You can make up to seven 0:06:22.410 --> 0:06:26.430 and a half thousand pounds tax- free from doing that 0:06:26.430 --> 0:06:29.310 per tax year, April to April, and best of all, 0:06:29.550 --> 0:06:31.890 you don't even need to Claer it on a tax 0:06:31.890 --> 0:06:35.790 return. So, your property could be earning money for you 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.880 if you've got a spare bedroom. And that's something that 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.400 helped me get over the line when I was doing 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:44.520 all of my sums and working out what mortgage, what 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.100 property, what area I could afford to live in. 0:06:47.610 --> 0:06:50.159 But also, if you have then got on the property 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:51.900 ladder and you are able to use that kind of 0:06:51.900 --> 0:06:54.510 scheme, you could put that cash into your pension, perhaps. 0:06:55.349 --> 0:06:55.500 Oh. 0:06:55.500 --> 0:06:55.830 You see? 0:06:55.890 --> 0:06:56.820 Very good, Ms. Bain. 0:06:57.360 --> 0:07:00.630 And also, saving for a property doesn't just help you in 0:07:00.630 --> 0:07:03.360 the short term. It can also help you in retirement. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:09.180 It can. So, all of the main calculations of retirement 0:07:09.180 --> 0:07:12.240 living standards, they've come up with these rules of thumb 0:07:12.480 --> 0:07:15.360 to give people an idea of how much money they 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.080 would need to aim to provide for themselves every year 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.290 in retirement to have a basic standard of living, which 0:07:22.290 --> 0:07:25.860 is basically the state pension plus something else, an intermediate 0:07:25.860 --> 0:07:29.250 and much more affluent style of living. But all of 0:07:29.250 --> 0:07:34.050 these calculations assume that you've paid off your mortgage. Now, 0:07:34.140 --> 0:07:37.590 the most popular mortgage term used to be 25 years, 0:07:37.590 --> 0:07:41.070 now it's 30 years. It's also possible to get a 40- 0:07:41.070 --> 0:07:43.680 year term if you're a young person. Now, it's great you 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.350 can stretch out those payments and make them more affordable 0:07:46.350 --> 0:07:48.750 so more people can get on the ladder, but ultimately, 0:07:49.380 --> 0:07:51.570 over the course of 35, 40 years, you're going to be 0:07:51.570 --> 0:07:54.810 paying back an awful lot more interest. So that's compounding 0:07:54.810 --> 0:07:59.040 again, but in reverse. Compounding working against you. So, the 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.350 other thing that you need to look at, especially as 0:08:01.560 --> 0:08:04.440 your career progresses and your salary starts to rise is, " 0:08:04.950 --> 0:08:08.310 Is it going to be worth it for me to 0:08:08.430 --> 0:08:11.850 do an overpayment on my mortgage? And am I going 0:08:11.850 --> 0:08:14.489 to get more bang for my buck doing that or 0:08:14.490 --> 0:08:17.520 making an overpayment into my pension?" If you are in 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.679 that lucky position and you have got a bit of 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.560 extra money that you think you could sink into both. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.630 And ultimately, it comes down to tax. As I said 0:08:24.630 --> 0:08:27.900 before, if you're somebody who's earning over 50,000 pounds or 0:08:27.900 --> 0:08:32.010 certainly somebody earning over 100,000 pounds, then almost certainly the 0:08:32.010 --> 0:08:35.670 pension will give you the bigger bang for your buck. 0:08:35.700 --> 0:08:40.140 But equally, if you are making even a small overpayment on your 0:08:40.140 --> 0:08:42.660 mortgage over time, particularly if there's two of you and you're 0:08:42.660 --> 0:08:45.510 both doing an extra 100 quid a month to pay 0:08:45.510 --> 0:08:49.890 off the mortgage, it's really, really surprising how quickly those 0:08:49.890 --> 0:08:54.150 savings can ramp up, knocking years potentially off your mortgage 0:08:54.150 --> 0:08:57.089 term and saving you thousands in interests. So just be 0:08:57.090 --> 0:09:00.540 aware, be curious, don't be afraid of doing some maths. 0:09:00.540 --> 0:09:02.760 'Cause I think what's clear from our conversation is that 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.220 it doesn't have to be either/ or so long as 0:09:05.220 --> 0:09:08.100 you get the facts and you come up with a 0:09:08.429 --> 0:09:11.250 plan. I think one of my favorite mottos when it 0:09:11.250 --> 0:09:13.559 comes to this whole area is the art of the doable. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.370 Figure out what is doable. And it's very encouraging, actually, 0:09:17.370 --> 0:09:19.980 when you said before, Claer, that something is better than 0:09:19.980 --> 0:09:22.050 nothing when it comes to your pension, but it is 0:09:22.050 --> 0:09:26.640 more about starting early and staying consistent. When it comes 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.670 to how you decide to save for a house though, 0:09:29.700 --> 0:09:32.460 do you think that perhaps we need to bear in 0:09:32.460 --> 0:09:36.840 mind some of these issues around having a mortgage term 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.380 that lasts well into our retirement, potentially creating problems for 0:09:40.380 --> 0:09:42.750 ourselves further down the line? If we are in a 0:09:42.750 --> 0:09:46.709 position to perhaps not take out quite so large a 0:09:46.710 --> 0:09:49.920 mortgage, would that potentially be a good idea? Obviously not 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:51.870 possible for everyone, but maybe for some. 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.480 It's ironic, isn't it, that we're having this huge backlash 0:09:54.540 --> 0:09:58.800 now against remote working? Because this for me was the 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:02.820 real big hope for younger people. You could afford to 0:10:02.820 --> 0:10:06.209 live further out, buy a cheaper property, maybe in a 0:10:06.210 --> 0:10:09.510 slightly nicer, more countrified location. And if you've only got 0:10:09.510 --> 0:10:13.470 to go into the office physically once, twice, maybe even 0:10:13.470 --> 0:10:15.719 three times a week, you're going to save money on 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:17.640 the commuting costs as well. You can get a part- 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:22.620 time commuter ticket. So, this other way of doing things 0:10:22.950 --> 0:10:26.189 were starting to open up. Now, I firmly believe that 0:10:26.190 --> 0:10:30.210 we will keep hold of the many benefits of flexible 0:10:30.210 --> 0:10:32.730 working, I have to say. And I think the benefit 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:38.010 for workers is so great that people would rather be 0:10:38.010 --> 0:10:42.089 able to work remotely than have a 10% pay rise, 0:10:42.150 --> 0:10:45.030 according to one poll, which we recently wrote about in 0:10:45.030 --> 0:10:47.790 the FT. And you do have a choice of who 0:10:47.790 --> 0:10:50.400 you work for, and you do have a choice of 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:54.600 the pension scheme of that employer. So, do find out 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:58.110 about what different companies are offering. Many, it will only 0:10:58.110 --> 0:11:01.230 be the bare minimum of also enrollment, but many employers 0:11:01.290 --> 0:11:04.559 are much more generous. And that is a real bit 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.800 of investigation work to do in your sector, in your 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:12.450 industry, finding out from colleagues, from people, from like LinkedIn, 0:11:12.510 --> 0:11:16.410 sites like Glassdoor, who are the real Rolls Royce employers 0:11:16.440 --> 0:11:21.000 in your sector, and how could that brighten your financial prospects? 0:11:21.059 --> 0:11:25.080 Give us a sense, Claer, of what a generous pension 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:28.110 would look like, and what maybe people could be looking 0:11:28.110 --> 0:11:29.760 out for in terms of a good offer. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.990 Okay, so the bare minimum, also enrollment, is that the employee 0:11:34.110 --> 0:11:38.849 pays in 5% of their salary before tax and the employer 0:11:39.059 --> 0:11:44.610 pays in 3%, so 8% overall. That's the bare minimum, 0:11:44.610 --> 0:11:47.190 so long as you earn more than about 10, 000 pounds 0:11:47.190 --> 0:11:51.420 a year, say, roughly speaking. But a more generous employer 0:11:51.630 --> 0:11:55.439 might pay 6% into the staff pension instead of 3%. 0:11:56.190 --> 0:11:59.820 A really generous one might pay 8%. I think if 0:11:59.820 --> 0:12:02.610 we get to that stage where people are much more 0:12:02.610 --> 0:12:06.270 empowered to ask questions about their pensions early when they've 0:12:06.270 --> 0:12:11.250 got time crucially to do something about it, the outcomes 0:12:11.309 --> 0:12:15.120 for everyone, future taxpayers and governments included, will be much, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:15.750 much better. 0:12:15.929 --> 0:12:18.929 That's really interesting, 'cause if you go to a dinner party, once 0:12:18.929 --> 0:12:22.110 you get to a certain age, the conversation inevitably turns 0:12:22.110 --> 0:12:24.600 to mortgages. Or even if you're just out in the 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.010 pub or meeting friends. 0:12:26.010 --> 0:12:26.730 House prices. 0:12:26.790 --> 0:12:28.349 House prices, mortgages, house- 0:12:28.350 --> 0:12:28.800 Renting. 0:12:28.830 --> 0:12:29.429 Exactly. 0:12:29.429 --> 0:12:29.429 Landlords. 0:12:29.429 --> 0:12:32.070 " How can we get on the property ladder?" That 0:12:32.070 --> 0:12:34.559 is the question. Maybe we need to start having a 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:36.990 more balanced conversation. Then that way, we can start to 0:12:36.990 --> 0:12:39.211 have a slightly more balanced financial future. 0:12:39.211 --> 0:12:43.710 And I think Future Fund would be a better name 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:45.870 for pensions, because I say in my book, you think 0:12:45.870 --> 0:12:49.650 pension, you think pensioners. Nobody wants to get old. 0:12:49.770 --> 0:12:53.520 So, we've talked about how lots of younger people might 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.420 feel like this is a totally unachievable dream. Have you 0:12:57.420 --> 0:13:01.800 got any glimmer of hope for a young person who 0:13:01.950 --> 0:13:05.130 has one advantage on their side, and that is time? 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.699 What can they do with that time in order to 0:13:08.730 --> 0:13:12.300 try to achieve both these goals, or at least do 0:13:12.330 --> 0:13:14.969 something for themselves that will benefit them in the future? 0:13:15.059 --> 0:13:18.240 Yeah, feel more positive rather than full of despair. 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:18.780 Exactly. 0:13:19.020 --> 0:13:23.100 Okay. So doing something, as I've said, into your pension. 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.700 Also, if you're self- employed, that is a bigger feature 0:13:26.820 --> 0:13:30.270 of the UK labor market, the so- called gig economy. 0:13:30.330 --> 0:13:32.670 And of course, you don't get the auto- enrollment pension 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.460 with that. You've got to be more proactive and start 0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:38.429 a small pension fund saving for yourself. More and more 0:13:38.429 --> 0:13:41.099 young people, especially if they're working freelance, are going to 0:13:41.100 --> 0:13:45.090 fall into that category. So again, educate yourself. Something small 0:13:45.150 --> 0:13:47.640 is better than nothing at all. But then when it 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:52.319 comes to saving for your first home, the lifetime ISA, 0:13:52.710 --> 0:13:56.730 yes, there are caveats to this product, namely the property 0:13:56.730 --> 0:14:00.120 price cap of 450, 000 pounds, which has never risen in 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:04.050 the near decade since this product was introduced. But you 0:14:04.050 --> 0:14:06.870 can save up to 4, 000 pounds a year and 0:14:06.870 --> 0:14:11.099 get a 25% government bonus. Now, you can do that 0:14:11.100 --> 0:14:14.280 in two ways. You can do it in cash or you 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.260 can do it as a stocks and shares ISA. So 0:14:16.260 --> 0:14:19.080 if you're looking at a 5, 10, 15 year period to 0:14:19.260 --> 0:14:21.420 save up for a house, and you are somebody who 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:23.790 wants to take a bit of risk with your money, 0:14:23.790 --> 0:14:26.910 then it is possible to invest that. But the fact is, 0:14:27.450 --> 0:14:28.950 a lot of us are not going to be able 0:14:28.950 --> 0:14:30.630 to afford to buy a house. 0:14:30.930 --> 0:14:33.180 This has been such an interesting discussion, Claer. I would 0:14:33.180 --> 0:14:37.110 love to end on your top three things to remember 0:14:37.170 --> 0:14:39.150 in the property versus pension debate. 0:14:39.210 --> 0:14:44.250 Okay. Both are important and valuable assets, so try not 0:14:44.250 --> 0:14:48.300 to neglect one completely in favor of the other, but 0:14:48.330 --> 0:14:51.720 equally remember that even if you can only save something 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:56.490 small into a pension and you're young, over time, those 0:14:56.490 --> 0:14:59.670 amounts, as I found out to my cost, can really 0:14:59.670 --> 0:15:03.990 add up, especially if you're benefiting from that free money 0:15:04.230 --> 0:15:07.830 that your employer is paying into. And finally, I'd just 0:15:07.830 --> 0:15:12.060 reiterate, there are tools online. There are mortgage calculators that 0:15:12.060 --> 0:15:14.820 you can look at over payments. There are calculators where 0:15:14.820 --> 0:15:17.490 you can look at how much pension payments might grow 0:15:17.490 --> 0:15:21.330 to over time. Don't be afraid to go and use 0:15:21.330 --> 0:15:24.630 them and have a play. The situation may not be 0:15:24.630 --> 0:15:28.890 quite so depressing as you think, but an informed choice 0:15:29.250 --> 0:15:32.160 with what you're doing with your money is always going 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:33.480 to be better than a guess. 0:15:33.750 --> 0:15:35.940 Hear hear. Couldn't agree more. Thank you so much, Claer. 0:15:36.060 --> 0:15:36.840 Thanks for having me. 0:15:38.850 --> 0:15:42.330 Loads to consider there. Next time, we're talking all about 0:15:42.330 --> 0:15:46.200 inheritance with Dr. Eliza Filby. This podcast is brought to 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.330 you by LNG. You can keep up with the show 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:52.650 on YouTube, TikTok and Instagram at Legal & General. I'd love it 0:15:52.650 --> 0:15:55.050 if you could follow the podcast, leave us a review, 0:15:55.170 --> 0:15:58.080 and help others get a little bit richer, too. Thanks 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:00.120 for listening. Until next time, see you soon.