WEBVTT - RELOCATION, RELOCATION, RELOCATION! 0:00:03.670 --> 0:00:07.420 Looking for inspiration and ideas to achieve your ideal retirement? 0:00:07.730 --> 0:00:11.020 You're in the right place. I'm Angellica Bell, and this 0:00:11.020 --> 0:00:14.550 is Rewirement. Today we're heading for the hills, or should 0:00:14.550 --> 0:00:18.810 I say the beach views, waterways, and open roads. That's 0:00:18.810 --> 0:00:22.880 because we're meeting amazing individuals who have relocated in later 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:26.160 life. Hundreds of thousands of people do it, so there's 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:28.080 no reason why it has to be a pipe dream 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:31.609 for you. If relocating or immigrating is on your bucket 0:00:31.610 --> 0:00:34.280 list, you probably have more than a few questions about 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:36.809 how you can afford it, and whether it's wise in 0:00:36.809 --> 0:00:39.370 the world we live in today, but I'm here to 0:00:39.370 --> 0:00:43.440 help. Maybe you dream of living abroad, but don't know 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:46.120 how you'll manage health care, or perhaps you want to 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:48.540 buy a second home, but aren't sure how you'd fund 0:00:48.540 --> 0:00:51.900 it. Maybe you just have questions about your pension and 0:00:51.900 --> 0:00:55.210 benefits if you leave the UK. Whatever it is, I 0:00:55.210 --> 0:00:56.810 hope you and I will be a little bit more 0:00:56.810 --> 0:00:59.749 clued up in the next 30 minutes or so. I'm 0:00:59.750 --> 0:01:02.619 going to be chatting to Legal & General's Andrew Kail, and 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:06.069 author, Celia Dodd, for their advice on everything you should 0:01:06.069 --> 0:01:09.649 be thinking about ahead of your next big move. And 0:01:09.649 --> 0:01:13.030 I'm really excited to introduce our colorful retirees for this 0:01:13.030 --> 0:01:16.089 episode. We'll be speaking to Tina from her home in 0:01:16.090 --> 0:01:23.630 Spain a little later, but first let's meet Jennifer. Jennifer 0:01:23.630 --> 0:01:26.429 and her husband have lived on their narrowboat, Roamer, for 0:01:26.429 --> 0:01:29.490 a decade now. When the county council they both worked 0:01:29.490 --> 0:01:33.550 for offered voluntary redundancy during cutbacks, they retired at the 0:01:33.550 --> 0:01:35.969 same time and made the decision to sell their home 0:01:35.970 --> 0:01:39.020 in Hertfordshire and buy a new one on the water. 0:01:39.740 --> 0:01:42.149 I think you should tell everyone listening where you are 0:01:42.149 --> 0:01:42.729 right now. 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.279 I'm on a narrowboat, where I live. 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.510 So tell me why you have decided this is the 0:01:48.510 --> 0:01:49.550 way you would love to live. 0:01:49.550 --> 0:01:54.240 Well, I grew up in Sussex in Chichester, so I've always 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.700 lived near the sea, and my husband and I have always said 0:01:57.700 --> 0:02:00.669 that when we retired, we'd either live on the water 0:02:00.669 --> 0:02:03.970 or by the water. So we looked at it and 0:02:03.970 --> 0:02:06.580 we said, Well, if we'd sell the house, we can 0:02:06.580 --> 0:02:11.100 buy a narrowboat and retire onto a narrowboat and that's 0:02:11.100 --> 0:02:11.619 what we did. 0:02:11.820 --> 0:02:14.310 So you just took control of your money, said, This 0:02:14.310 --> 0:02:15.700 is what we want to do and just did it. 0:02:15.900 --> 0:02:18.879 Yeah, yeah. We sat down, worked out all the figures 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.609 and said, If we do this then we'll have no 0:02:22.609 --> 0:02:26.720 mortgage, obviously we've got the expenses of running the boat 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:31.200 and boat licenses and that sort of thing. But we 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.220 sat down and we worked it all out. And we 0:02:33.220 --> 0:02:37.230 worked out that with our pensions that we could afford 0:02:37.230 --> 0:02:40.700 to do that and still have a nice holiday every 0:02:40.700 --> 0:02:45.649 year. We go on a cruise every year, funnily enough, 0:02:45.650 --> 0:02:47.410 we go back onto another boat. 0:02:47.459 --> 0:02:51.620 Well, exactly. So, it wasn't also about quality of life. 0:02:51.739 --> 0:02:57.029 Definitely, definitely. It's not easy, it takes its toll on 0:02:57.150 --> 0:03:00.369 you physically, because when you are out, if you're on 0:03:00.370 --> 0:03:02.719 the canals, you've got to keep jumping on and off 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:06.070 and work the locks and they're heavy and they don't 0:03:06.070 --> 0:03:10.560 always work properly. So it's quite physical, but that's good 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:13.709 at our age, to keep us going and it makes 0:03:13.709 --> 0:03:18.689 us get up and out we're not sedentary. But you're 0:03:18.690 --> 0:03:21.630 out in the fresh air all the time. My husband 0:03:21.630 --> 0:03:24.950 and I are both ex- forces and so we're used 0:03:25.690 --> 0:03:27.339 to be nomadic anyway. 0:03:27.980 --> 0:03:30.769 So what sort of community do you have living on 0:03:30.769 --> 0:03:31.280 the water? 0:03:31.459 --> 0:03:35.820 You've got people from all walks of life. Some university 0:03:35.820 --> 0:03:40.680 lecturers, we've got actors, we've even heard that Harrison Ford 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.900 likes going on one when he's over in the UK. 0:03:44.350 --> 0:03:46.430 I don't know how true that is, but people have 0:03:46.430 --> 0:03:50.210 said they've seen him on the boats. But you've got 0:03:50.610 --> 0:03:54.089 people who are living hand to mouth as well, who 0:03:54.090 --> 0:03:56.950 are totally off the grid, who want to be off 0:03:56.950 --> 0:04:01.300 the grid, and everyone gets on with everyone. There's no 0:04:01.730 --> 0:04:06.520 snobbery about it, everybody helps everybody. If you moor up 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:08.850 near a boat for the night, they'll come and say 0:04:08.850 --> 0:04:12.190 hello and have a chat, especially if there's dogs around. 0:04:12.670 --> 0:04:17.239 Dogs are the great, great communicator in boaters, everybody seems 0:04:17.420 --> 0:04:18.150 to have a dog. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.940 With your ex military background, being on a boat probably 0:04:22.940 --> 0:04:25.620 really suits you, because you have to move from basis 0:04:25.620 --> 0:04:27.510 to basis and travel a lot. Because I know some 0:04:27.510 --> 0:04:29.260 people just like to be in one place, know where 0:04:29.260 --> 0:04:32.240 they're at. Horses for courses, isn't it. 0:04:32.870 --> 0:04:35.460 We were both in the RAF to start off with, and then 0:04:35.460 --> 0:04:38.950 my husband transferred over to the army. And in the 0:04:38.969 --> 0:04:43.729 22 years that he did with the forces, we moved 0:04:43.750 --> 0:04:47.950 11 times. In the end, if you stayed anywhere more 0:04:47.950 --> 0:04:51.109 than two years, I started getting itchy feet. 0:04:51.650 --> 0:04:55.990 Now you've alluded to being quite financially savvy, Jennifer, but 0:04:55.990 --> 0:04:59.020 tell me about the moment you retired, what happened and 0:04:59.020 --> 0:05:00.359 what decisions did you make? 0:05:00.570 --> 0:05:04.289 So we looked at what finances we had, because they'd said they'd 0:05:04.289 --> 0:05:07.080 give us access to our pension as it stood at 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.619 that time. So we looked to that and we thought, Okay, 0:05:10.620 --> 0:05:13.680 once we'd sold the house and how much a boat 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:16.570 would cost or how much it would cost to run 0:05:16.570 --> 0:05:21.310 the boat. And we said, Yeah, that that will work. 0:05:21.440 --> 0:05:26.400 It's got our military pensions as well, so that worked 0:05:26.779 --> 0:05:27.520 quite nicely. 0:05:28.729 --> 0:05:31.020 You're always on top of your money and you're budgeting 0:05:31.020 --> 0:05:32.020 stuff as you go along. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:37.529 I haven't always been. There are times when we've almost 0:05:37.529 --> 0:05:39.760 been hand to mouth, in the old days when we 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:44.609 were young and had young kids, my husband was diagnosed 0:05:44.609 --> 0:05:47.799 with cancer, so he was out of work for a 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.289 few years. So during that time it was a real 0:05:51.289 --> 0:05:56.909 struggle, but we scraped through that. So I suppose part 0:05:56.909 --> 0:06:00.170 of then, is not wanting to go back to that. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:05.960 I look at my parents and my husband's mother who 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:10.529 survive just on a state pension. And she was on £ 0:06:10.539 --> 0:06:13.919 50 pounds a week and having to pay rent and 0:06:13.919 --> 0:06:18.219 find food and she couldn't afford anything. And we always 0:06:18.219 --> 0:06:21.659 said we wouldn't do that, so when we came on the 0:06:21.659 --> 0:06:25.200 boat, we said, Right, we've always got to keep enough 0:06:25.349 --> 0:06:28.380 money for a major repair. 0:06:29.219 --> 0:06:32.099 I love it. Is it your children, you got two children, what do they 0:06:32.099 --> 0:06:32.870 make of it all? 0:06:33.060 --> 0:06:34.710 They both think we're crazy. 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:37.640 So tell me about your plan for later in life. 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.580 The long- term plan is stay on the boat as 0:06:40.580 --> 0:06:44.690 long as we're able. And I've always said to my kids, Next stop 0:06:44.690 --> 0:06:47.809 is the nursing home, so they'd better save up now. 0:06:47.810 --> 0:06:51.311 You don't say that. Oh my goodness. 0:06:51.311 --> 0:06:51.330 They know I'm joking. 0:06:53.330 --> 0:06:59.580 Obviously, obviously. Is there anything that you would do differently, as 0:06:59.580 --> 0:07:02.610 your younger self, in terms of preparing for your retirement? 0:07:03.150 --> 0:07:06.409 Yes, start sooner. I think if we were trying to 0:07:06.409 --> 0:07:09.349 struggle on a state pension, none of this would have 0:07:09.349 --> 0:07:15.670 happened. In my day, your employer didn't have workplace pensions, 0:07:15.850 --> 0:07:19.220 or not many of them did. So, yeah, pay into 0:07:19.220 --> 0:07:23.410 it. Don't opt out, pay into the work's pension and 0:07:23.430 --> 0:07:26.210 make sure that you've got enough to live how you want 0:07:26.210 --> 0:07:29.080 to live. Decide how you want to live when you 0:07:29.650 --> 0:07:33.320 eventually retire and make sure that you've got enough money 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.640 to afford that. And I know it's really difficult. If 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.820 somebody had told me that in my twenties and thirties, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:44.100 make sure you got a pension for when you retire, I'd 0:07:44.100 --> 0:07:48.840 have laughed and said, " That's years away." It probably is for 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.410 a lot of people now, but I'm really pleased that 0:07:52.410 --> 0:07:55.410 we're not having to chase a pension anymore. 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:57.770 I suppose another good piece of advice, if you can 0:07:57.770 --> 0:07:59.950 live on a narrowboat, is make sure you get on with your 0:07:59.950 --> 0:08:00.939 husband or partner. 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:05.239 Or have somewhere you can go, where you can scream and then 0:08:05.239 --> 0:08:05.590 come back. 0:08:05.590 --> 0:08:12.540 Jenny says the only downside to life on the water 0:08:12.540 --> 0:08:15.100 is not having as much storage space as you do 0:08:15.100 --> 0:08:17.610 in a house, a small price to pay for the idyll 0:08:17.980 --> 0:08:20.370 of living on the water if you're a keen boater 0:08:20.370 --> 0:08:22.970 though. I love how she and her husbands still make 0:08:22.970 --> 0:08:25.160 sure they can take a holiday away. They have a 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:29.449 cruise booked for the Caribbean later this year. Next up 0:08:29.450 --> 0:08:32.860 we meet Tina. Now Tina started planning her retirement in 0:08:32.860 --> 0:08:36.809 Spain many years before finishing work at 55. She told 0:08:36.809 --> 0:08:39.559 me how smart planning helped her and her husband have 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.300 a life of their dreams on the Costa Blanca. 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:49.001 I actually reside in (foreign language) , and that's just outside (foreign language) 0:08:49.001 --> 0:08:56.050 . And for all you happy Benidormers, it's about 20 0:08:56.050 --> 0:09:00.820 minutes away from there. I've actually been in Spain for 0:09:00.829 --> 0:09:03.969 over 20 years and, whilst I was working, I bought 0:09:03.970 --> 0:09:07.990 properties for investments for my old age. It was a 0:09:07.990 --> 0:09:12.699 struggle at first, but I'm reaping the benefits now. I'm 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.040 in the process of selling some of my assets to 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:20.540 actually fund my lifestyle as I go into older age. 0:09:20.579 --> 0:09:26.300 I did retire at 55 with the intention of building 0:09:26.370 --> 0:09:29.530 a pension pot up, so I don't have to rely 0:09:29.530 --> 0:09:32.319 on state pension. And I think if people are going 0:09:32.319 --> 0:09:35.770 to come to Spain, they need to plan for that. 0:09:36.179 --> 0:09:39.300 Tina's move wasn't an impulsive one. When she retired at 0:09:39.300 --> 0:09:42.880 55, she had already been planning her Spanish emigration for 0:09:42.900 --> 0:09:43.719 20 years. 0:09:44.140 --> 0:09:47.920 I started this process in my thirties, early thirties, I 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:51.929 bought this little two- bedroom house, which is just five 0:09:51.929 --> 0:09:56.380 minutes from the beach. We then sought to buy a 0:09:56.380 --> 0:10:01.130 bigger property for our retirement, keeping this of course. And 0:10:01.130 --> 0:10:03.960 our idea was to rent it out, which we did 0:10:04.630 --> 0:10:08.360 whilst we were working, because even if you were working, you still 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:10.849 got bills at home to pay and you still got 0:10:10.850 --> 0:10:12.979 to pay bills here, regardless of whether you're here or 0:10:13.010 --> 0:10:16.530 whether you're not. So we had a small income from 0:10:16.530 --> 0:10:19.459 here, which ticked this over, and then we bought a 0:10:19.459 --> 0:10:25.609 villa. We've got fabulous views, but we had 59 steps 0:10:25.679 --> 0:10:28.650 up to the front door, which is quite large. But 0:10:28.650 --> 0:10:32.240 when you're young, that 59 steps is really not a 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:36.920 lot. But as you're aging, 59 steps is like a 0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:40.560 mountain to climb just to get your own door. So 0:10:40.750 --> 0:10:44.390 that's not really suitable for us anymore, so we have 0:10:44.390 --> 0:10:45.770 to sell that really. 0:10:46.730 --> 0:10:51.390 By starting early on her investments and working consistently, Tina 0:10:51.390 --> 0:10:54.059 and her husband were able to secure the lifestyle they 0:10:54.059 --> 0:10:57.209 have now. By getting clear on what she wanted for 0:10:57.209 --> 0:11:00.229 later life, Tina was able to make short- term decisions 0:11:00.230 --> 0:11:02.689 that have paid off long- term. So what advice does 0:11:02.689 --> 0:11:05.250 she have for others who might want to move to Spain? 0:11:05.709 --> 0:11:07.439 If you're going to buy a villa, just be very 0:11:07.439 --> 0:11:10.520 careful in what you're buying. Look out, make sure that 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.839 there's heating, number one, because there's always something that's going 0:11:13.839 --> 0:11:16.160 to go wrong with a villa. It's always cold in 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.130 winter, fairly hot in summer, so you need air- con, 0:11:19.650 --> 0:11:22.650 hot and cold. And you really need to look around to 0:11:22.650 --> 0:11:27.770 see in your location, if there are any services such 0:11:27.770 --> 0:11:32.360 as shops, restaurants, and bars, because that's important as you 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:36.100 get older, because you need to walk to these and 0:11:36.100 --> 0:11:40.290 you don't need to constantly drive. The language barrier is 0:11:40.290 --> 0:11:43.500 a big problem. For simple things like sorting out an 0:11:43.500 --> 0:11:48.029 electricity problem, it's a big problem because you don't speak 0:11:48.030 --> 0:11:51.739 the language properly. Shopping's to not too bad, but if 0:11:51.740 --> 0:11:54.809 you go into a market, that can be a problem, 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.500 because nobody's going to speak your language. And as you 0:11:58.500 --> 0:12:01.939 get older and because you're working and you're concentrating on other 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:07.429 things, you don't always have time to learn the language, 0:12:07.429 --> 0:12:09.540 because you've got to put a lot of effort into 0:12:09.540 --> 0:12:13.550 that. I would recommend anybody who's coming to Spain to 0:12:13.550 --> 0:12:18.610 really think very, very seriously about learning the language. 0:12:18.949 --> 0:12:22.500 There's a strong ex- pat community where Tina lives. She 0:12:22.500 --> 0:12:25.219 says being able to get along and enjoy meeting like- 0:12:25.219 --> 0:12:28.640 minded people is important when you're starting over somewhere new. 0:12:29.329 --> 0:12:33.229 You do tend to meet like- minded people. Round here, 0:12:33.300 --> 0:12:37.900 everybody knows everybody, because it's a very, very small urbanization. 0:12:38.780 --> 0:12:43.439 It's only about 62 properties and it's divided into two 0:12:43.439 --> 0:12:47.809 halves. So on this little half here, where I've got 0:12:47.809 --> 0:12:52.339 property, there's only about 40 houses and there's a lot 0:12:52.339 --> 0:12:56.250 of different nationalities round here. Some people have got a 0:12:56.250 --> 0:13:01.179 different attitude towards life and their cultures are quite different 0:13:01.179 --> 0:13:03.490 to yours, so you have to be a bit lenient 0:13:03.490 --> 0:13:04.170 in that way. 0:13:04.449 --> 0:13:07.879 Tina loves to walk her French Bulldog puppy, Gizmo, locally, 0:13:08.370 --> 0:13:11.069 but that's not something she feels comfortable to do on 0:13:11.069 --> 0:13:12.450 an evening in the UK. 0:13:12.660 --> 0:13:15.119 Well, if I was in England, I certainly wouldn't take 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.270 my dog out on my own. And I tend to, when 0:13:18.270 --> 0:13:22.150 I'm in the UK, not go out after seven o'clock. I'm in 0:13:23.150 --> 0:13:26.670 the house, because I don't feel comfortable. I'm here on 0:13:26.670 --> 0:13:30.010 my own at the moment and there's a bar up the 0:13:30.010 --> 0:13:32.980 road. I go there quite frequently. I take the dog, 0:13:32.980 --> 0:13:35.880 of course, because you've got to take someone live with you, so 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.780 you don't feel like Billy no- mates. I've got no 0:13:38.780 --> 0:13:41.699 problem with going into a bar, having a glass of 0:13:41.699 --> 0:13:44.119 wine. They don't care, they just give you a half 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.370 a beer, they don't bother you and whatever. And there might be a 0:13:47.370 --> 0:13:51.010 few holiday makers there, a few English people, and then 0:13:51.010 --> 0:13:54.869 they start talking to you, because everybody's happy, they're all 0:13:54.870 --> 0:13:55.290 on holiday. 0:13:56.589 --> 0:14:00.420 Tina says understanding the different expenses is crucial to planning 0:14:00.420 --> 0:14:03.839 for your retirement abroad. She's 59 years old, so has 0:14:03.839 --> 0:14:05.579 a little way to go before she can claim her 0:14:05.579 --> 0:14:09.069 state pension, and the rules for healthcare are different in Spain. 0:14:09.490 --> 0:14:11.670 If you're under 65, you have to pay for your 0:14:11.670 --> 0:14:14.010 own healthcare if you're going to stay here for any 0:14:14.010 --> 0:14:17.219 length of time and become a resident. The cost of healthcare 0:14:17.219 --> 0:14:19.979 here is not cheap and people think it's going to be a bit 0:14:19.979 --> 0:14:24.690 like the UK. You arrive and whatever, after a couple 0:14:24.690 --> 0:14:28.999 of months you'll integrate and you can access their health 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:33.190 service. Well, not here you can't. You have to pay before 0:14:33.190 --> 0:14:36.229 they'll actually do anything for you, or you have to 0:14:36.229 --> 0:14:39.950 show you've got means to pay for the treatment. So 0:14:39.950 --> 0:14:43.390 for somebody like me, no healthcare, I'm under 60 and 0:14:44.020 --> 0:14:48.450 this year I've paid € 1, 200 for the healthcare, which 0:14:48.450 --> 0:14:52.100 is not a lot you might think, but it's unlikely 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.840 that I will actually access any health care here, simply 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.950 because at the moment I'm in very good health. I 0:14:59.950 --> 0:15:02.550 do think that the cost of living is more expensive 0:15:02.550 --> 0:15:05.510 here than it is in the UK. An average shop 0:15:05.510 --> 0:15:11.920 here would be, for two people, about € 90. Lamb is 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.300 very, very expensive, you can pick up a piece of 0:15:15.300 --> 0:15:19.070 lamb in the UK for £ 7, over here that's going 0:15:19.070 --> 0:15:24.900 to be 20 to £ 27. Fish is very expensive here, the 0:15:24.900 --> 0:15:28.989 general cost of living is very expensive here. Soft furnishings, my 0:15:28.990 --> 0:15:33.610 God, even now I bring over curtains and cushions and 0:15:33.910 --> 0:15:37.080 things like that, because they're three times as much over 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.510 here. I'm just going to put the thing in, because it's raining, believe it 0:15:40.510 --> 0:15:44.710 or not. People come to Spain and retire to Spain 0:15:45.050 --> 0:15:49.139 thinking they're going to get sunshine 365 days a year. 0:15:50.229 --> 0:15:53.640 One more thing Tina highlighted was the importance of mentally 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.270 preparing to live some distance away from family and old friends. 0:15:57.950 --> 0:16:00.850 When you do come out here to live, everybody wants 0:16:00.850 --> 0:16:06.800 to come, everybody. But after a couple of times, they 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:08.900 they've had that, they've done that, they don't want the 0:16:08.900 --> 0:16:13.019 holiday anymore, and I think families do drift. My advice 0:16:13.020 --> 0:16:16.330 would be, to anybody who's thinking of doing what I'm 0:16:16.330 --> 0:16:20.600 doing, is do your research. Don't always settle for the 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:25.160 first place you see, and always look to the future. 0:16:25.420 --> 0:16:29.410 Because if you're 30 or 40 or even 50, you 0:16:29.410 --> 0:16:33.700 could be very healthy and there are things that won't 0:16:33.700 --> 0:16:37.370 phase you, but then add another 20 years onto that 0:16:37.990 --> 0:16:41.229 and then put yourself in that position and then look 0:16:41.229 --> 0:16:45.720 back. If you can, if it's possible, get an understanding 0:16:45.859 --> 0:16:52.519 of how that particular country works, because each country have 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.470 their own cultures and the way they operate things. Simple 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:01.950 things like electricity, water, they all work differently. Think very, 0:17:01.950 --> 0:17:05.260 very carefully where you're buying and how long you want 0:17:05.260 --> 0:17:08.899 to stay there. And also think about how you want 0:17:08.899 --> 0:17:14.520 to leave that asset to your family or whoever, because 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.560 they will pay inheritance tax on that and that's really 0:17:18.629 --> 0:17:21.359 a massive chunk of your hard earned money. 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.210 It's fabulous to hear how Tina and Jennifer took the 0:17:25.210 --> 0:17:28.810 leap and fulfilled their dreams in retirement. I hope that's 0:17:28.810 --> 0:17:32.250 inspired you. Some really wise words from Tina about thinking 0:17:32.250 --> 0:17:35.509 about how that transition impacts your relationships with family and 0:17:35.510 --> 0:17:39.139 friends back home. It sounds like having a great community 0:17:39.139 --> 0:17:42.280 and building friendships in your new place is a really 0:17:42.310 --> 0:17:46.199 important part of relocating later in life, wherever you choose 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.419 to go. Now, Tina and Jennifer have raised some important 0:17:49.419 --> 0:17:53.040 questions that they've both had to navigate. From deciding to 0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.750 sell the family home, to looking at how healthcare and 0:17:55.750 --> 0:17:59.350 state benefits work when you're abroad, there's a big practical 0:17:59.350 --> 0:18:02.030 side to work out for such a move. To help 0:18:02.030 --> 0:18:05.119 us find some answers I'm joined by Legal & General's Andrew 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:09.680 Kail, CEO of Legal & General's retail retirement, and author, Celia 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:14.180 Dodd. Thank you so much for joining me. Celia, you've 0:18:14.180 --> 0:18:16.470 written a book called Not Fade Away about how to 0:18:16.470 --> 0:18:19.840 make the most of retirement. What inspired you to write 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:20.340 this book? 0:18:21.210 --> 0:18:23.850 Well, I was really interested to know why people dread 0:18:23.850 --> 0:18:26.310 retirement so much, because it should be the best time 0:18:26.310 --> 0:18:28.619 of our lives when we can do exactly what we 0:18:28.619 --> 0:18:31.270 want to do. And it seemed to me that there was a 0:18:31.649 --> 0:18:36.600 mistaken link between aging and retirement, and actually, retirement is 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.409 all about changing, it's not really about aging at all. 0:18:40.129 --> 0:18:45.129 I talked about 60 retired people, from a train driver 0:18:45.129 --> 0:18:47.810 to a top fashion designer, to find out the mistakes they've 0:18:47.810 --> 0:18:51.690 made as well as the successes they've had, because I think that's a really 0:18:51.690 --> 0:18:55.070 good way of working out what works for you, hearing 0:18:55.070 --> 0:18:57.800 other people's stories about what worked for them. Of course retirement's 0:18:58.260 --> 0:19:01.629 changed, it's changing all the time, as you don't have 0:19:01.629 --> 0:19:03.879 to retire. People now are doing all kinds of different 0:19:03.879 --> 0:19:07.250 things, they're not retiring, they're doing part- time work. So there's 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:09.570 a huge amount of choice and I think people can 0:19:09.570 --> 0:19:12.619 feel a bit bewildered by the choice. So I wanted 0:19:12.619 --> 0:19:15.659 to guide them to make really good decisions, to make 0:19:15.659 --> 0:19:18.709 the best of what could be a fabulous time of life. 0:19:18.750 --> 0:19:22.209 Well, you highlighted something that I've been talking about with 0:19:22.210 --> 0:19:24.010 my friends a lot, since they've heard I've been doing 0:19:24.010 --> 0:19:28.149 this podcast. They were like, Retirement, it's one of those 0:19:28.149 --> 0:19:31.219 words which has this stigma attached to it and something 0:19:31.220 --> 0:19:34.840 that will be years down the line and it's made 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.280 them think about it and assess what they want to 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.580 do and who they want to be. And I think 0:19:39.580 --> 0:19:41.160 one of the things you want to do is to 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.780 allow people to think about new possibilities for themselves at 0:19:43.820 --> 0:19:44.909 whatever stage of their life. 0:19:45.770 --> 0:19:49.510 Absolutely, life is full of possibilities. But as I say, 0:19:49.740 --> 0:19:52.000 I think people can think of retirement as quite a 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:56.070 passive phase, (inaudible) , pipe, and slippers. In fact, you've 0:19:56.070 --> 0:19:58.369 got to be more proactive than perhaps you ever were 0:19:58.369 --> 0:20:02.109 at work. You've really got to seize the hour and 0:20:02.460 --> 0:20:05.750 look at or investigate all the possibilities and maybe make 0:20:05.750 --> 0:20:09.310 mistakes. See mistakes as experiments and a way of working 0:20:09.310 --> 0:20:12.420 out what you want to do next. But yeah, I do really want 0:20:12.889 --> 0:20:15.600 to allow people to see all the wonderful possibilities there 0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:16.250 are out there. 0:20:16.470 --> 0:20:19.960 Well, Andrew, I want to bring you in now, because thousands of people choose to have 0:20:19.960 --> 0:20:23.219 a longterm change of scenery when they reached their freedom 0:20:23.220 --> 0:20:25.949 years. So what sort of locations do people head for 0:20:25.950 --> 0:20:28.420 most? Because it's not always sunshine and sand, is it? 0:20:28.590 --> 0:20:31.609 Yeah, so many people have a plan to relocate when 0:20:31.609 --> 0:20:35.340 they retire and I think we've seen, with COVID, that 0:20:35.340 --> 0:20:37.869 started to change it as well. People feeling that they 0:20:37.869 --> 0:20:39.909 want to move away from cities or be closer to 0:20:39.909 --> 0:20:43.469 family. So the reasons that people want to relocate, yes, 0:20:43.470 --> 0:20:45.949 they could be by the sea or doing something different, 0:20:45.950 --> 0:20:48.609 but there are lots of other different reasons too. And 0:20:48.609 --> 0:20:51.919 actually some research we've done recently at Legal & General shows 0:20:51.919 --> 0:20:54.679 that over 3 million people in the UK, 50 and 0:20:54.679 --> 0:20:59.080 over, are thinking now, as a consequence of COVID- 19, 0:20:59.119 --> 0:21:01.160 of relocating in retirement. 0:21:01.260 --> 0:21:01.300 Oh, wow. 0:21:02.129 --> 0:21:05.230 We did some work last year, looking at migration hotspots, 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.070 where were people going in the UK. The southwest, Dorset, 0:21:09.070 --> 0:21:12.639 Shropshire, and Wiltshire were the top ones. And interestingly, we were 0:21:12.639 --> 0:21:16.080 seeing some migration away from cities. So large cities like 0:21:16.080 --> 0:21:19.720 London, Birmingham, and Bristol, people were moving out to quieter 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.709 pastures. I think with COVID and the ability to operate 0:21:24.129 --> 0:21:26.410 remotely, that trend will likely continue. 0:21:26.619 --> 0:21:29.220 So, Celia, what do you find as being the most common 0:21:29.220 --> 0:21:31.470 challenges people face when relocating? 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:36.429 Well, I think finding new friends and new social networks, 0:21:36.429 --> 0:21:39.669 which go hand in hand, and finding new stuff to 0:21:39.669 --> 0:21:42.690 do, which is a problem when you retire wherever you 0:21:42.690 --> 0:21:46.030 are. But establishing yourself in a new place, and I 0:21:46.030 --> 0:21:49.909 think the biggest challenge is that transition. So, the first 0:21:49.909 --> 0:21:53.559 couple of years when you've left behind things and you're 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:57.149 probably still missing things, but you haven't yet found all 0:21:57.149 --> 0:22:00.189 the new stuff. I think a lot of people find the actual move 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.300 is quite a good bridge between the old life and 0:22:02.300 --> 0:22:05.189 the new, it's a project in itself, if you like. 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:08.389 Making the house nice, the garden, that can work really 0:22:08.389 --> 0:22:11.820 well. Again, it's essential to be proactive and maybe do 0:22:11.820 --> 0:22:12.989 your research before you go. 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:16.639 Now one thing that comes up a lot is that 0:22:16.639 --> 0:22:20.929 there's this uncertainty of financial needs. When people do want to 0:22:20.929 --> 0:22:22.949 make a big change in their life, what sort of 0:22:22.950 --> 0:22:25.709 things should we budget for, if we're moving somewhere new 0:22:25.710 --> 0:22:27.879 in retirement, Andrew? 0:22:27.879 --> 0:22:31.459 I think it's retirement more generally, you have to plan this really carefully. I 0:22:31.460 --> 0:22:35.210 think if you start to relocate, there's some really obvious 0:22:35.210 --> 0:22:37.550 thing that you need to think about. The cost of living of where 0:22:37.550 --> 0:22:39.759 you're going to be and the type of retirement you're going to 0:22:39.760 --> 0:22:42.239 have. So what are you planning to spend your money 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.539 on? We heard Tina talk about how they need to 0:22:46.050 --> 0:22:49.810