Sean Philip: This series is bought to you by L& G, helping
Sean Philip: you build a future that's a little bit richer.
Iona: Hello and happy New Year. Now today we're going to
Iona: do something a wee bit different because we're actually going
Iona: to do a book club and that's because personal finance
Iona: starts with strengthening our mindset, our habits and our relationship
Iona: with money. And we found some books that will help
Iona: us to do just that. So we can set ourselves
Iona: up with good financial foundations that our future selves will
Iona: thank us for. And today, we're going to be exploring
Iona: four books, The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel, Money
Iona: Together by Heather and Doug Boneparth, Atomic Habits by James
Iona: Clear, and The Anxiety Solution by Chloe Brotheridge. We're going
Iona: to unpack some big ideas, some uncomfortable truths, those aha
Iona: moments, and the things that we're actually going to do
Iona: differently because of what we've read. So whether you've devoured
Iona: all four books, skimmed a summary, or haven't picked them
Iona: up yet, consider this your guided tour through the insights
Iona: that really matter to get your new year off to
Iona: a great start. And to chat through these books, I'm
Iona: joined by L& G's Sean Philip. Now, Sean heads up
Iona: a team who support workplace pension customers, providing digital tools
Iona: and info to encourage people to plan for their longer
Iona: term finances. And he's also a bit of a bookworm.
Iona: So we thought it'd be great to have a bit
Iona: of a geek out about some great books on money
Iona: and self- improvement. Welcome, Sean. Are you ready?
Sean Philip: I think so, yeah.
Iona: Brilliant. Well, let's get stuck in then. Your first book
Iona: is The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. And if
Iona: you could sum up this book in one sentence, what
Iona: would it be?
Sean Philip: It's about how our mindset, our behaviors, and our psychology
Sean Philip: play a much bigger role in how we think about
Sean Philip: money and how we deal with money than financial markets
Sean Philip: or the economy or any kind of science or maths
Sean Philip: or markets.
Iona: And this book is an absolute phenomenon. It's been a
Iona: global bestseller, hasn't it? And I think lots of people
Iona: have been very drawn to this book because it offers
Iona: something a little bit different from your average finance book.
Iona: What makes this book such a compelling read?
Sean Philip: I think a lot of people, when they start thinking
Sean Philip: about finances and markets and the economy, they're often drawn
Sean Philip: into this kind of world of complicated terminology and it
Sean Philip: feels very much like a science, like a math subject,
Sean Philip: like, something really, really hard that I think most people...
Sean Philip: Well, not speaking for everyone, but not everyone really kind
Sean Philip: of enjoys those sorts of subjects. It's things that they
Sean Philip: probably kind of veered away from like after they left school.
Iona: Like me.
Sean Philip: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But what Morgan Housel really does with
Sean Philip: the book is he really kind of illuminates the fact
Sean Philip: that it's about people's feelings and their psychology more than
Sean Philip: it is about these kind of hard sciences or numbers.
Sean Philip: And we're all good at that, right? So we're all
Sean Philip: human. We all innately kind of understand emotions and feelings.
Sean Philip: The book for your collection of 19 different short stories,
Sean Philip: it takes us on this journey about how your behaviors
Sean Philip: drive where you interact with money much more than numbers
Sean Philip: or hard facts.
Iona: And he uses lots of fascinating examples throughout as well.
Iona: And one that jumped out at me was the janitor
Iona: who had been investing all throughout his life very quietly
Iona: and just became a low- key millionaire.
Sean Philip: Yeah, yeah.
Iona: And I didn't know that story before I read the
Iona: book. So have you made any changes since you read
Iona: the book? Anything in there that really made an impression
Iona: on you and you thought, yeah, I'm going to use
Iona: that in my own life?
Sean Philip: Yeah. I think the way that he uses the stories is
Sean Philip: a really great way of bringing a lot of this
Sean Philip: to life. And I think the thing that I took
Sean Philip: from it was that there's kind of two ways that
Sean Philip: people get wealthy and get successful financially. One is pure
Sean Philip: luck really. And with six billion people on the planet,
Sean Philip: some people are going to be very, very lucky, but
Sean Philip: you can't really emulate that. And thinking that you are just
Sean Philip: going to be one of those lucky people that suddenly
Sean Philip: gets wealthy isn't really a plan. The other examples that
Sean Philip: he brings through is the value of being consistent and
Sean Philip: actually that's how you become successful. That's how you drive
Sean Philip: and build wealth, it's this kind of consistent habits. And
Sean Philip: we'll talk about habits later in one of the other
Sean Philip: books that we're going to read, but it's about showing
Sean Philip: up and making small savings, choices over a very long
Sean Philip: time period. Might not be the sexiest, most exciting message,
Sean Philip: but it's the true message about how you build wealth.
Iona: And he's very, very pro saving as a way to
Iona: give yourself choices and options further down the line. And
Iona: that really spoke to me.
Sean Philip: So one of the big things that stayed with me
Sean Philip: was the concept that you don't have to be saving
Sean Philip: for something specific. And actually, the act of saving is
Sean Philip: an important outcome in and of itself. Obviously, there's times
Sean Philip: in your life when you do want to be saving
Sean Philip: for something, whether it's a wedding or a holiday or
Sean Philip: a deposit for a house. And I think I've been
Sean Philip: guilty of this as well, is that you get to
Sean Philip: that goal and then you kind of stop and actually
Sean Philip: you lose all the brilliant kind of power of the
Sean Philip: compounding that you would otherwise get. So I think one
Sean Philip: of the things that the book really encourages you to do, and
Sean Philip: something I've taken away is, well, actually if you can,
Sean Philip: you really should continue to save, not necessarily for something
Sean Philip: specific, but just because it is in and of itself a really valuable thing
Sean Philip: to do.
Iona: It is also about establishing low expectations in terms of
Iona: your own lifestyle and not trying to keep up too
Iona: much with the Joneses. I mean, it's so simple when
Iona: we say it like that, but actually it's something that
Iona: is very easy to forget and lands lots of us
Iona: in trouble.
Sean Philip: Oh no, absolutely. He talks a lot about this concept
Sean Philip: of knowing when enough is enough and being really clear
Sean Philip: on how you understand, well, what is it that I
Sean Philip: actually really need to feel successful and to feel sated
Sean Philip: from a financial perspective? And that's really individual for everyone.
Sean Philip: Everyone's going to feel slightly differently about that. And I
Sean Philip: think that's what the book really encourages you to do
Sean Philip: is to see that there's lots of different voices in
Sean Philip: finance. And you turn the TV on, you go through
Sean Philip: social media and people have got lots of different opinions
Sean Philip: on things that they're getting out to you.
Iona: And they can be very certain in those opinions.
Sean Philip: And they can. Yes, exactly. But I think what he's quite
Sean Philip: clear to say is that you need to try and
Sean Philip: find a way to really forge your own path through
Sean Philip: that and understand, well, what is it that you on
Sean Philip: a personal level want to achieve with your finances and
Sean Philip: when is enough for you? And be happy with that.
Iona: Yeah. Run your own race, play your own game.
Sean Philip: Yeah, absolutely.
Iona: That's the thing I really took away from it most,
Iona: I would say.
Sean Philip: Yeah. And Iona, you've been reading Money Together. If you
Sean Philip: could sum that up in one sentence, how would you
Sean Philip: describe it?
Iona: So it's a book by a couple for couples on
Iona: how couples can manage their finances. So it sounds very
Iona: simple, but it throws up lots of fascinating and complex questions.
Sean Philip: Great. And what drew you to the book?
Iona: Well, I think it's really unusual to come across a
Iona: money book that's been written by a couple and a
Iona: couple as honest as Heather and Doug. So Doug is
Iona: a financial planner and he is an expert on money.
Iona: So he does come at this whole subject from an authoritative
Iona: position. But what I find really refreshing about the book is
Iona: that this is a couple being really honest about their
Iona: history, their challenges, and what they have had to learn,
Iona: both the easy way and the hard way along the
Iona: path of becoming a couple. And I feel the book
Iona: really explores all the complexities and nuances and frustrations and
Iona: difficulties, but joys as well of forging a path together
Iona: with someone in life, but also confronting what that means
Iona: for your joint finances. And the whole subject of money
Iona: and relationships, it can be very taboo. Couples find it
Iona: so hard to have these conversations with one another. So
Iona: I do think that anything that busts that taboo open
Iona: and just gets us talking more about how we can
Iona: manage money successfully in relationships, I feel like that is
Iona: just such a positive step forward and will hopefully reduce
Iona: the amount of conflict that people have in their relationships
Iona: when it comes to money, because it can be a
Iona: big cause of separation and divorce.
Sean Philip: Brilliant. I mean, I really liked how there's quite a
Sean Philip: lot of humor in the book as well, and it's
Sean Philip: quite a nice read, isn't it? And one of the things that
Sean Philip: stuck out for me when we're thinking about how you
Sean Philip: approach these different things as a couple was the story
Sean Philip: of the Diablo, the idea that actually one couple had
Sean Philip: really positioned their kind of financial challenge, which was to
Sean Philip: clear their collective student debt as this villain that they
Sean Philip: both wanted to go. And slay and in a really nice playful
Sean Philip: way, they've been able to kind of tackle quite a
Sean Philip: serious topic, but in a way that's also brought them
Sean Philip: together. And I think they were probably both fantasy fans.
Iona: True. Yeah.
Sean Philip: And it's not going to necessarily work for everyone, but
Sean Philip: it was just a really nice way of kind of
Sean Philip: sharing these stories and showing how there isn't one way
Sean Philip: of doing this. But if you are collectively tackling these
Sean Philip: things together, then you're much more likely to vanquish that villain.
Iona: Yeah. Yeah. I really like the use of those examples
Iona: as well to bring this whole thorny subject to life
Iona: and to do it in a way that will resonate
Iona: with people who aren't necessarily finance narratives, let's face it.
Iona: And I think that's what this book has in common
Iona: with Psychology of Money. It is very much aimed at
Iona: people who maybe haven't given their finances a lot of
Iona: thought and certainly haven't talked that much with their partner
Iona: about their finances. And I feel that this can be
Iona: such a daunting subject that if you talk about it
Iona: in those terms, then you just help to open up
Iona: those conversations with your other half. And I feel that
Iona: their examples that they used throughout the book just illustrate
Iona: that all couples struggle with this issue. And even those
Iona: couples that present a really beautiful image of their relationship
Iona: on Instagram and the fact that you can end up
Iona: looking at other couples and thinking, they've got it all
Iona: sorted. Actually, nobody's got it sorted. We're all fighting our
Iona: own battles, but what's most important and what really came
Iona: through for me is the fact that you are a
Iona: team. You have to work together and try to find
Iona: that balance between managing your own independence and working with
Iona: that other person on your shared goals because we're not
Iona: in a world anymore where you just kind of decide
Iona: to let your other half make all the decisions for
Iona: you when it comes to your finances. We're in a
Iona: world now where actually having your own independence is a
Iona: good thing. It's a good safety measure, but how can
Iona: you do that without shutting out your partner and how
Iona: can you do that without making them feel like you're
Iona: not including them in your future? And I feel like
Iona: they just tackle that whole subject in a very down
Iona: to earth way. It is American, so if you're a
Iona: British reader, you might have to kind of get on
Iona: board with, like, the American language and the American financial
Iona: system, which is different from ours. But if you can
Iona: see past that, there are universal truths in there that I
Iona: think will resonate with everyone.
Sean Philip: Yeah, no, absolutely. And obviously, it is a book written
Sean Philip: by a couple, the examples in there are all couples.
Sean Philip: If you're single, is it still a worthwhile read?
Iona: I think so. Yeah. I think it's good to be aware of a lot
Iona: of these issues before you get into a relationship with
Iona: someone because I think it can be really, really hard
Iona: to address this stuff once you're further down the line.
Iona: And goodness knows a number of people that I speak
Iona: to who get together with someone and they're really squeamish
Iona: about asking those questions on the early dates because they
Iona: don't think it's very romantic. And you can just picture
Iona: the scene in a restaurant where like you're having a
Iona: very lovely candle at meal and then you bring up
Iona: the subject of how much have you got in your ISA? It's a bit of a passion
Iona: killer. But I think if you do have this kind
Iona: of stuff in mind when you're going into relationships, then
Iona: you can have those conversations early on because communication is
Iona: key. So long as you keep talking and you're doing
Iona: it in an empathetic and compassionate way with one another,
Iona: and the book's got lots of exercises that will show
Iona: you how to do that, then I think you're on
Iona: the right path, even if you're quite different people and
Iona: you've come from maybe quite different backgrounds, that's not an
Iona: insurmountable challenge. You can still work it out to quote
Iona: the Beatles/ Stevie Wonder. You can still overcome those obstacles
Iona: if you're committed to working together as a team.
Sean Philip: Do you find that you've managed your money any differently after
Sean Philip: you've read the book?
Iona: Yeah. So in terms of my own relationship, I'm definitely
Iona: going to give this to my other half because I
Iona: think there is a lot of food for thought in
Iona: there and it will also help me and him maybe
Iona: address some of these difficult issues that can come up
Iona: in a relationship in a way that will take the
Iona: heat out of it. And I think that that will
Iona: definitely be helpful. So, yeah. So coming onto more personal
Iona: development books, Sean, your next book that you want to
Iona: chat about is Atomic Habits. Can you tell me in
Iona: one sentence what this is about?
Sean Philip: Atomic Habits by James Clear. It's a big global success
Sean Philip: story. Over 50 million copies have been sold and really
Sean Philip: it's all about how you can use the different techniques
Sean Philip: within the book to create new good habits.
Iona: So what drew you to this book?
Sean Philip: On one level, this is a really practical book that
Sean Philip: provides lots of different examples and exercises that you can
Sean Philip: go through and frameworks to create habits. On the other
Sean Philip: hand, and what drew me in was the bigger picture
Sean Philip: piece around it, which is the early kind of chapters.
Sean Philip: And for me, the real kind of thrust of the
Sean Philip: book was that it's actually more about identity and about
Sean Philip: who you are and who you want to become as
Sean Philip: a person as opposed to the different things that maybe
Sean Philip: you want to do. To kind of use an example, James Clear
Sean Philip: talks a bit about if you're going to the gym, often
Sean Philip: people say, and it'll be a classic New Year's resolution, "
Sean Philip: I want to go to the gym three days a
Sean Philip: week," let's say. But you're unlikely to keep that up
Sean Philip: if it hasn't fundamentally become part of your identity and
Sean Philip: who you are. I think what he's really doing is
Sean Philip: trying to encourage you first to think about, " Well, who
Sean Philip: is it that I want to become?" And if you frame
Sean Philip: it like that and you say, " Well, I want to
Sean Philip: become somebody who's healthy and fit and strong," then you're
Sean Philip: much more likely to find the habits and the behaviors
Sean Philip: that you want to do to get there, sustain and
Sean Philip: the things that you're actually going to carry on doing.
Iona: Yeah. He definitely unpacks what has to go into making those
Iona: habits stick and it's all very well having a system
Iona: in place if you want to have your trainers beside
Iona: the bed so that when you get up in the
Iona: morning, you just see the trainers there and you've got
Iona: one less excuse not to go to the gym. But ultimately, if
Iona: you don't believe that actually you're someone who can become
Iona: fitter and healthier and that you don't see that as
Iona: part of your identity, then yeah, I can see why
Iona: you're going to fail at the first hurdle. And I
Iona: feel like that's got so much relevance for finance because
Iona: so many people I meet will say to me, " Oh,
Iona: I'm terrible with money. I'm never going to get better
Iona: with this." And I feel like once you start identifying
Iona: in that way, that's half the battle there that you're
Iona: not winning because ultimately you're putting that label on yourself.
Iona: And it's something that I think in Britain, especially actually,
Iona: we feel very comfortable saying, but in other cultures and
Iona: other countries, not so much. And that's what I find quite
Iona: interesting about the book. It's challenging us all to think
Iona: about the identities that we create for ourselves. Yeah.
Sean Philip: I think you're absolutely right. And that's one of the things that I've taken
Sean Philip: from it, which is if I want to think of myself as somebody who is confident with their finances, then what
Sean Philip: are the different habits that come off the back of
Sean Philip: that? And this is where we start thinking a bit
Sean Philip: more about some of the tactical things that you can
Sean Philip: actually do, but he talks about habit stacking. So where
Sean Philip: you've probably already got quite a lot of different habits
Sean Philip: that are not bad or good, they might be neutral
Sean Philip: in and of themselves, but how do you use them
Sean Philip: and leverage them to start bringing through the habits that
Sean Philip: are going to help you achieve your identity? So for
Sean Philip: me, that might be, and I'm sure I'm not alone
Sean Philip: in this, the first thing I do when I wake
Sean Philip: up in the morning, reach for the phone, start flicking
Sean Philip: through the socials, maybe like read a bit of the news. But if
Sean Philip: I'm thinking about, well, how do I start to achieve
Sean Philip: that identity of being somebody who is more financially aware
Sean Philip: and confident, then actually before I kind of give myself
Sean Philip: the endorphin rush of checking the socials, let's have a
Sean Philip: look, what's my bank balance and how much have I got in my savings? Let's
Sean Philip: build that up as the habit so that actually when
Sean Philip: you do reach for your phone, because you are inevitably
Sean Philip: going to do that, it's also linked to feeling more
Sean Philip: confident about your finances.
Iona: That's interesting. Although I have to say, Sean, you're a
Iona: brave man if the first thing you do in the
Iona: morning is check your bank balance. But maybe that's the
Iona: point. Actually, it's about just having these habits in place
Iona: so that you are not being daunted by these things
Iona: because often people get so intimidated by the idea of
Iona: doing something like checking their bank balance. They've built it
Iona: up in their head and because they don't have a
Iona: system for actually making that a daily habit, then it
Iona: just never happens. Whereas, yeah, why not do it first thing in the morning?
Iona: At least you get it over and done with. And
Iona: have you made any changes in your own life since
Iona: reading this book?
Sean Philip: I'm a chronic nail biter and I have been for
Sean Philip: a very, very long time. And it's maybe not encouraged
Sean Philip: me to stop quite yet, but I'm definitely much more
Sean Philip: aware now of when I'm doing it, which is a
Sean Philip: good thing. So I'm on a bit of a journey
Sean Philip: with stopping that habit, but I'm getting there.
Iona: Brilliant. That's good to hear.
Sean Philip: Yeah. What about you, Iona? Have you picked up any
Sean Philip: new habits?
Iona: Yeah, I have. So actually, like you, the temptation to
Iona: just pick up my phone in the morning is really
Iona: strong. And instead, what I say to myself is that
Iona: I'm going to read a non- fiction book in the
Iona: morning and a fiction book at night. Now, I don't
Iona: always succeed, but if I have that habit in place
Iona: and it's just something that I do that's tied in
Iona: with waking up and going to bed, then these are
Iona: the windows that I know I should be reading in.
Iona: And the great thing about that is that actually the
Iona: nonfiction book could be a finance book. In the past few
Iona: weeks from we've been reading these books for the book
Iona: club, it's been a really good time. And actually, it
Iona: helps you start the day then with a very enlightened
Iona: mindset as opposed to getting quite stressed out about the
Iona: latest news. So yeah, I feel that this book's definitely
Iona: made me think differently about my own habits. And ultimately,
Iona: life is made up of what we do habitually. It's
Iona: who we are, it's how we behave. And I think
Iona: sometimes there is that disconnect between who we think we
Iona: are or who we want to be and what we
Iona: actually do in our day- to- day life. And we're
Iona: never going to get it perfectly right.
Sean Philip: Great. I think this is the last book. It's The Anxiety
Sean Philip: Solution, isn't it, by Chloe Brotheridge? Could you tell us
Sean Philip: what it's all about?
Iona: So the Anxiety Solution is a book that is really
Iona: designed, as the name suggests, to help you address your
Iona: anxiety, whether that is at a kind of low level
Iona: or whether it's something that is more chronic and diagnosable.
Iona: Chloe is a qualified hypnotherapist, but she is also popular
Iona: on social media because she is very good at sharing
Iona: practical strategies for helping you manage your anxiety.
Sean Philip: Why should people read it?
Iona: I think we all feel anxious and that might be
Iona: just from time to time at quite a low level
Iona: or it could be something that happens on a regular
Iona: basis. And I know at various points, I've had anxiety
Iona: and that has been on a big spectrum ranging from
Iona: mild to quite severe. And when your anxiety becomes more
Iona: severe, it not only gets in the way of you
Iona: being able to enjoy life, it actually gets in the
Iona: way of you being able to make good decisions as
Iona: well. And that's why being anxious shouldn't just become something
Iona: that you tolerate and that you think is part of
Iona: your identity, coming back to what we were saying, or
Iona: something that you think is just, you just have to
Iona: live with it and feel like it's just part of
Iona: 21st century living. Of course, being anxious is fine on
Iona: occasion. It's normal, it's healthy, it shows that we care
Iona: and it shows that we want things to be good
Iona: in our life, but if it tips over into a
Iona: place where it stops us making decisions, it stops us
Iona: being able to move forward, that's when we need to
Iona: tackle it. And this is what I found really helpful
Iona: about the book. I first read it back in 2017,
Iona: so it's not a new book. It's been around for
Iona: a while, but it was the first book that I'd
Iona: read out of many, many psychology books that actually then
Iona: gave me tools that I could apply in my own
Iona: life. So I think the two that really stuck out
Iona: for me were, firstly, it's such a simple idea, but
Iona: the idea of making your decisions good. So I can
Iona: sometimes get quite indecisive because I'm really worried about the
Iona: outcome of the decisions that I make and that then
Iona: leads to paralysis. And I feel like this applies to
Iona: so many different things, but when it happens with your
Iona: finances, it can be really problematic because then you're not
Iona: going to push ahead with things like saving, investing, putting
Iona: money into your pension when actually all of these things
Iona: are really important. So for me, having the mentality of,
Iona: if I make a decision, I'm going to make that
Iona: decision good. That's what Chloe talked about. Make your decisions
Iona: good as in once you've decided on something, make it
Iona: work and see the best of it and see it
Iona: through. And even if it's not perfect and there are
Iona: flaws in it, you can always come back and address
Iona: it and tweak it and change it. But ultimately, if
Iona: you can just make that decision good, then you can
Iona: move forward and make that first step. And the other
Iona: thing that really worked for me was worry time. So
Iona: her suggestion is just set aside some time to worry
Iona: about stuff and outside of that, say, " No, I am
Iona: not going to worry about this right now." And that
Iona: includes at 3: 00 AM when you have to go
Iona: to the toilet and you get back into bed and
Iona: suddenly your brain switches on with all the existential worries.
Iona: I now say to myself, " I'm going to put that
Iona: aside because that's not worry time. Right now, this is
Iona: sleep time." And when I get round to worry time,
Iona: I often find the things that I was worried about
Iona: have gone away. I've kind of got them into perspective.
Iona: My subconscious brain has turned it over and decided it's
Iona: not that much of an issue. And if it is
Iona: still something I'm worried about by the time I get
Iona: to worry time, then her advice is to definitely just
Iona: break it down into practical steps as to how you
Iona: can address it. So if I'm worried about my earnings
Iona: as a freelancer, break it down and ask yourself why
Iona: you're worried about it, and then you can come up
Iona: with a solution. And just writing things down in general
Iona: does wanders for your anxiety. So I mean, those are
Iona: just two examples, but honestly, the book is absolutely stacked
Iona: full of that kind of practical advice that I found really useful.
Sean Philip: Yeah. There's a brilliant chapter in the book around control
Sean Philip: and the way that actually anxiety can come about through
Sean Philip: the feeling that you've lost control or you don't have
Sean Philip: control over something. And I really liked some of the
Sean Philip: analogies that Chloe used around that and how that links
Sean Philip: in with finances because I think personally, if I think
Sean Philip: back to when I was at university and like never
Sean Philip: wanting to check my bank balance because it was almost
Sean Philip: like, well, if I don't check it, then it's fine.
Iona: I won't get bad news.
Sean Philip: And the kind of feeling like, well, if I did check
Sean Philip: it, I've kind of lost control over it. But I
Sean Philip: mean, the reality is I never had control in the
Sean Philip: first place, clearly. But I think the thing that I
Sean Philip: like in the book is the kind of concept that
Sean Philip: sometimes you just have to lean into that and let
Sean Philip: the anxiety float over you, I think is the terminology
Sean Philip: that she uses. And she uses this great example of skiing.
Iona: Yeah.
Sean Philip: If you've ever been skiing, when you're learning to ski,
Sean Philip: you have this kind of innate worry and fear of losing
Sean Philip: control and falling over. And what that encourages you to
Sean Philip: do is because it's an instinct, is you lean back
Sean Philip: and you try and stop yourself from the problem and
Sean Philip: that just has the opposite effect and you're much more
Sean Philip: likely to fall and not succeed. Whereas actually in skiing
Sean Philip: and I think in life and definitely with finances, actually
Sean Philip: you need to lean into it and you need to
Sean Philip: lean forward. And yes, you are going to have this
Sean Philip: feeling of losing control maybe, but leaning into it allows
Sean Philip: that anxiety to kind of float over you and actually
Sean Philip: gives you more of that control in the long run.
Iona: Yeah. It's a brilliant analogy and yeah, it's so applicable to finance
Iona: because there is so much about money that is uncertain
Iona: that we can't predict. I mean, if you put your
Iona: money into the stock market, you just have no idea
Iona: what's going to happen there. You've got a fairly good
Iona: idea and you can make decisions that will manage your
Iona: risk, but ultimately, you do have to take a leap
Iona: of faith. And it's the same if you're buying a
Iona: house, it's the same if you're putting money into your
Iona: pension. You do have to just overcome that initial anxiety
Iona: that you're not totally in control. And therefore, I think
Iona: if you have ever had any anxiety around your finances,
Iona: and let's face it, it would be weird if you
Iona: didn't, then this book will definitely help you with that,
Iona: but it will also help you if you have any
Iona: kind of generalized anxiety. Well, we really hope that that's
Iona: inspired you to start reading and get your new year
Iona: off to a great start. If this episode has motivated
Iona: you this January, why not share the podcast and help
Iona: others get a little bit richer, too? Next time, we're
Iona: joined by friend of the show and L& G's Jenny
Iona: Hazan to talk about divorce and your longer term finances
Iona: with some practical things that you need to think about.
Iona: This podcast is brought to you by L& G. You
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Iona: legalandgeneral. If you've got a question or topic you'd like
Iona: answered on the show, please do get in touch on
Iona: our socials. Until next time, thanks for listening and see
Iona: you soon.