WEBVTT - These Books Will Change How You Think About Money 0:00:00.300 --> 0:00:02.909 This series is bought to you by L& G, helping 0:00:02.910 --> 0:00:04.980 you build a future that's a little bit richer. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:09.630 Hello and happy New Year. Now today we're going to 0:00:09.630 --> 0:00:12.330 do something a wee bit different because we're actually going 0:00:12.330 --> 0:00:15.540 to do a book club and that's because personal finance 0:00:15.660 --> 0:00:19.980 starts with strengthening our mindset, our habits and our relationship 0:00:19.980 --> 0:00:22.770 with money. And we found some books that will help 0:00:22.770 --> 0:00:25.320 us to do just that. So we can set ourselves 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.830 up with good financial foundations that our future selves will 0:00:28.830 --> 0:00:31.500 thank us for. And today, we're going to be exploring 0:00:31.500 --> 0:00:35.880 four books, The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel, Money 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:40.320 Together by Heather and Doug Boneparth, Atomic Habits by James 0:00:40.320 --> 0:00:44.370 Clear, and The Anxiety Solution by Chloe Brotheridge. We're going 0:00:44.370 --> 0:00:48.870 to unpack some big ideas, some uncomfortable truths, those aha 0:00:48.870 --> 0:00:51.120 moments, and the things that we're actually going to do 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.660 differently because of what we've read. So whether you've devoured 0:00:54.690 --> 0:00:57.930 all four books, skimmed a summary, or haven't picked them 0:00:57.930 --> 0:01:01.350 up yet, consider this your guided tour through the insights 0:01:01.350 --> 0:01:03.780 that really matter to get your new year off to 0:01:03.780 --> 0:01:06.120 a great start. And to chat through these books, I'm 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:08.940 joined by L& G's Sean Philip. Now, Sean heads up 0:01:08.940 --> 0:01:13.260 a team who support workplace pension customers, providing digital tools 0:01:13.290 --> 0:01:15.899 and info to encourage people to plan for their longer 0:01:15.900 --> 0:01:19.140 term finances. And he's also a bit of a bookworm. 0:01:19.260 --> 0:01:21.270 So we thought it'd be great to have a bit 0:01:21.270 --> 0:01:23.790 of a geek out about some great books on money 0:01:23.940 --> 0:01:27.240 and self- improvement. Welcome, Sean. Are you ready? 0:01:27.300 --> 0:01:28.259 I think so, yeah. 0:01:28.350 --> 0:01:31.679 Brilliant. Well, let's get stuck in then. Your first book 0:01:31.740 --> 0:01:35.550 is The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel. And if 0:01:35.550 --> 0:01:38.429 you could sum up this book in one sentence, what 0:01:38.430 --> 0:01:38.819 would it be? 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.870 It's about how our mindset, our behaviors, and our psychology 0:01:42.900 --> 0:01:45.360 play a much bigger role in how we think about 0:01:45.390 --> 0:01:48.360 money and how we deal with money than financial markets 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:51.150 or the economy or any kind of science or maths 0:01:51.150 --> 0:01:52.050 or markets. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:54.990 And this book is an absolute phenomenon. It's been a 0:01:54.990 --> 0:01:58.890 global bestseller, hasn't it? And I think lots of people 0:01:58.890 --> 0:02:01.080 have been very drawn to this book because it offers 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.680 something a little bit different from your average finance book. 0:02:05.100 --> 0:02:07.620 What makes this book such a compelling read? 0:02:08.070 --> 0:02:09.750 I think a lot of people, when they start thinking 0:02:09.750 --> 0:02:13.470 about finances and markets and the economy, they're often drawn 0:02:13.470 --> 0:02:17.400 into this kind of world of complicated terminology and it 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.790 feels very much like a science, like a math subject, 0:02:20.790 --> 0:02:23.700 like, something really, really hard that I think most people... 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.730 Well, not speaking for everyone, but not everyone really kind 0:02:26.730 --> 0:02:28.590 of enjoys those sorts of subjects. It's things that they 0:02:28.590 --> 0:02:30.990 probably kind of veered away from like after they left school. 0:02:31.740 --> 0:02:31.920 Like me. 0:02:31.920 --> 0:02:35.669 Yeah. Yeah, definitely. But what Morgan Housel really does with 0:02:35.669 --> 0:02:37.980 the book is he really kind of illuminates the fact 0:02:37.980 --> 0:02:41.700 that it's about people's feelings and their psychology more than 0:02:41.700 --> 0:02:44.340 it is about these kind of hard sciences or numbers. 0:02:44.580 --> 0:02:46.889 And we're all good at that, right? So we're all 0:02:46.889 --> 0:02:50.760 human. We all innately kind of understand emotions and feelings. 0:02:50.970 --> 0:02:53.579 The book for your collection of 19 different short stories, 0:02:53.580 --> 0:02:56.370 it takes us on this journey about how your behaviors 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.010 drive where you interact with money much more than numbers 0:02:59.010 --> 0:03:00.060 or hard facts. 0:03:00.210 --> 0:03:03.329 And he uses lots of fascinating examples throughout as well. 0:03:03.330 --> 0:03:06.240 And one that jumped out at me was the janitor 0:03:06.389 --> 0:03:09.299 who had been investing all throughout his life very quietly 0:03:09.300 --> 0:03:11.310 and just became a low- key millionaire. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:11.820 Yeah, yeah. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:13.980 And I didn't know that story before I read the 0:03:13.980 --> 0:03:17.460 book. So have you made any changes since you read 0:03:17.460 --> 0:03:20.010 the book? Anything in there that really made an impression 0:03:20.010 --> 0:03:22.139 on you and you thought, yeah, I'm going to use 0:03:22.139 --> 0:03:23.100 that in my own life? 0:03:23.190 --> 0:03:25.889 Yeah. I think the way that he uses the stories is 0:03:25.889 --> 0:03:27.240 a really great way of bringing a lot of this 0:03:27.240 --> 0:03:28.830 to life. And I think the thing that I took 0:03:28.830 --> 0:03:32.100 from it was that there's kind of two ways that 0:03:32.100 --> 0:03:36.030 people get wealthy and get successful financially. One is pure 0:03:36.030 --> 0:03:39.089 luck really. And with six billion people on the planet, 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.850 some people are going to be very, very lucky, but 0:03:41.850 --> 0:03:44.730 you can't really emulate that. And thinking that you are just 0:03:44.730 --> 0:03:46.410 going to be one of those lucky people that suddenly 0:03:46.470 --> 0:03:49.740 gets wealthy isn't really a plan. The other examples that 0:03:49.740 --> 0:03:52.290 he brings through is the value of being consistent and 0:03:52.290 --> 0:03:56.190 actually that's how you become successful. That's how you drive 0:03:56.190 --> 0:03:59.160 and build wealth, it's this kind of consistent habits. And 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:00.930 we'll talk about habits later in one of the other 0:04:00.930 --> 0:04:03.060 books that we're going to read, but it's about showing 0:04:03.060 --> 0:04:06.690 up and making small savings, choices over a very long 0:04:06.690 --> 0:04:10.110 time period. Might not be the sexiest, most exciting message, 0:04:10.110 --> 0:04:12.540 but it's the true message about how you build wealth. 0:04:13.410 --> 0:04:16.110 And he's very, very pro saving as a way to 0:04:16.110 --> 0:04:19.529 give yourself choices and options further down the line. And 0:04:19.529 --> 0:04:21.270 that really spoke to me. 0:04:21.330 --> 0:04:23.370 So one of the big things that stayed with me 0:04:23.370 --> 0:04:26.220 was the concept that you don't have to be saving 0:04:26.220 --> 0:04:30.060 for something specific. And actually, the act of saving is 0:04:30.060 --> 0:04:33.180 an important outcome in and of itself. Obviously, there's times 0:04:33.180 --> 0:04:34.529 in your life when you do want to be saving 0:04:34.529 --> 0:04:37.950 for something, whether it's a wedding or a holiday or 0:04:37.950 --> 0:04:39.960 a deposit for a house. And I think I've been 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.580 guilty of this as well, is that you get to 0:04:41.580 --> 0:04:44.039 that goal and then you kind of stop and actually 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:46.740 you lose all the brilliant kind of power of the 0:04:46.740 --> 0:04:49.680 compounding that you would otherwise get. So I think one 0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.810 of the things that the book really encourages you to do, and 0:04:51.810 --> 0:04:54.240 something I've taken away is, well, actually if you can, 0:04:54.540 --> 0:04:58.380 you really should continue to save, not necessarily for something 0:04:58.380 --> 0:05:01.650 specific, but just because it is in and of itself a really valuable thing 0:05:01.650 --> 0:05:01.741 to do. 0:05:01.741 --> 0:05:07.260 It is also about establishing low expectations in terms of 0:05:07.260 --> 0:05:10.020 your own lifestyle and not trying to keep up too 0:05:10.020 --> 0:05:13.470 much with the Joneses. I mean, it's so simple when 0:05:13.470 --> 0:05:16.140 we say it like that, but actually it's something that 0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:18.690 is very easy to forget and lands lots of us 0:05:18.690 --> 0:05:19.260 in trouble. 0:05:19.350 --> 0:05:22.080 Oh no, absolutely. He talks a lot about this concept 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.320 of knowing when enough is enough and being really clear 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.229 on how you understand, well, what is it that I 0:05:28.230 --> 0:05:31.770 actually really need to feel successful and to feel sated 0:05:31.770 --> 0:05:35.370 from a financial perspective? And that's really individual for everyone. 0:05:35.370 --> 0:05:37.410 Everyone's going to feel slightly differently about that. And I 0:05:37.410 --> 0:05:40.260 think that's what the book really encourages you to do 0:05:40.260 --> 0:05:44.010 is to see that there's lots of different voices in 0:05:44.010 --> 0:05:46.080 finance. And you turn the TV on, you go through 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.719 social media and people have got lots of different opinions 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:50.670 on things that they're getting out to you. 0:05:50.670 --> 0:05:52.380 And they can be very certain in those opinions. 0:05:52.381 --> 0:05:54.990 And they can. Yes, exactly. But I think what he's quite 0:05:54.990 --> 0:05:57.359 clear to say is that you need to try and 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.660 find a way to really forge your own path through 0:06:00.660 --> 0:06:02.490 that and understand, well, what is it that you on 0:06:02.490 --> 0:06:05.520 a personal level want to achieve with your finances and 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:09.300 when is enough for you? And be happy with that. 0:06:09.330 --> 0:06:11.370 Yeah. Run your own race, play your own game. 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:12.360 Yeah, absolutely. 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:14.370 That's the thing I really took away from it most, 0:06:14.370 --> 0:06:14.820 I would say. 0:06:14.940 --> 0:06:18.150 Yeah. And Iona, you've been reading Money Together. If you 0:06:18.150 --> 0:06:20.010 could sum that up in one sentence, how would you 0:06:20.010 --> 0:06:20.520 describe it? 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.170 So it's a book by a couple for couples on 0:06:25.170 --> 0:06:28.349 how couples can manage their finances. So it sounds very 0:06:28.350 --> 0:06:33.000 simple, but it throws up lots of fascinating and complex questions. 0:06:33.150 --> 0:06:34.860 Great. And what drew you to the book? 0:06:35.430 --> 0:06:38.250 Well, I think it's really unusual to come across a 0:06:38.250 --> 0:06:41.310 money book that's been written by a couple and a 0:06:41.310 --> 0:06:45.690 couple as honest as Heather and Doug. So Doug is 0:06:45.990 --> 0:06:49.620 a financial planner and he is an expert on money. 0:06:49.770 --> 0:06:53.430 So he does come at this whole subject from an authoritative 0:06:53.430 --> 0:06:56.159 position. But what I find really refreshing about the book is 0:06:56.160 --> 0:07:00.150 that this is a couple being really honest about their 0:07:00.150 --> 0:07:04.920 history, their challenges, and what they have had to learn, 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.770 both the easy way and the hard way along the 0:07:07.770 --> 0:07:10.590 path of becoming a couple. And I feel the book 0:07:10.590 --> 0:07:16.530 really explores all the complexities and nuances and frustrations and 0:07:16.530 --> 0:07:20.850 difficulties, but joys as well of forging a path together 0:07:20.850 --> 0:07:24.810 with someone in life, but also confronting what that means 0:07:24.810 --> 0:07:29.610 for your joint finances. And the whole subject of money 0:07:29.610 --> 0:07:32.790 and relationships, it can be very taboo. Couples find it 0:07:32.790 --> 0:07:35.610 so hard to have these conversations with one another. So 0:07:35.610 --> 0:07:39.060 I do think that anything that busts that taboo open 0:07:39.330 --> 0:07:42.540 and just gets us talking more about how we can 0:07:42.540 --> 0:07:46.080 manage money successfully in relationships, I feel like that is 0:07:46.140 --> 0:07:50.190 just such a positive step forward and will hopefully reduce 0:07:50.190 --> 0:07:53.310 the amount of conflict that people have in their relationships 0:07:53.310 --> 0:07:55.110 when it comes to money, because it can be a 0:07:55.110 --> 0:07:57.570 big cause of separation and divorce. 0:07:57.750 --> 0:07:59.790 Brilliant. I mean, I really liked how there's quite a 0:07:59.790 --> 0:08:01.650 lot of humor in the book as well, and it's 0:08:01.650 --> 0:08:03.600 quite a nice read, isn't it? And one of the things that 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.000 stuck out for me when we're thinking about how you 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:08.700 approach these different things as a couple was the story 0:08:08.700 --> 0:08:13.710 of the Diablo, the idea that actually one couple had 0:08:14.040 --> 0:08:17.040 really positioned their kind of financial challenge, which was to 0:08:17.070 --> 0:08:21.030 clear their collective student debt as this villain that they 0:08:21.060 --> 0:08:24.600 both wanted to go. And slay and in a really nice playful 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:27.030 way, they've been able to kind of tackle quite a 0:08:27.030 --> 0:08:29.760 serious topic, but in a way that's also brought them 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.370 together. And I think they were probably both fantasy fans. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:33.241 True. Yeah. 0:08:33.241 --> 0:08:35.429 And it's not going to necessarily work for everyone, but 0:08:35.429 --> 0:08:37.229 it was just a really nice way of kind of 0:08:37.230 --> 0:08:39.900 sharing these stories and showing how there isn't one way 0:08:39.900 --> 0:08:42.630 of doing this. But if you are collectively tackling these 0:08:42.630 --> 0:08:46.350 things together, then you're much more likely to vanquish that villain. 0:08:46.410 --> 0:08:49.620 Yeah. Yeah. I really like the use of those examples 0:08:49.620 --> 0:08:54.329 as well to bring this whole thorny subject to life 0:08:54.330 --> 0:08:56.610 and to do it in a way that will resonate 0:08:56.610 --> 0:09:00.450 with people who aren't necessarily finance narratives, let's face it. 0:09:00.450 --> 0:09:02.309 And I think that's what this book has in common 0:09:02.309 --> 0:09:04.530 with Psychology of Money. It is very much aimed at 0:09:04.530 --> 0:09:07.980 people who maybe haven't given their finances a lot of 0:09:07.980 --> 0:09:10.860 thought and certainly haven't talked that much with their partner 0:09:11.070 --> 0:09:14.250 about their finances. And I feel that this can be 0:09:14.250 --> 0:09:17.010 such a daunting subject that if you talk about it 0:09:17.010 --> 0:09:20.579 in those terms, then you just help to open up 0:09:20.580 --> 0:09:23.760 those conversations with your other half. And I feel that 0:09:23.940 --> 0:09:26.460 their examples that they used throughout the book just illustrate 0:09:26.460 --> 0:09:29.309 that all couples struggle with this issue. And even those 0:09:29.309 --> 0:09:33.179 couples that present a really beautiful image of their relationship 0:09:33.179 --> 0:09:35.730 on Instagram and the fact that you can end up 0:09:35.730 --> 0:09:37.620 looking at other couples and thinking, they've got it all 0:09:37.620 --> 0:09:41.340 sorted. Actually, nobody's got it sorted. We're all fighting our 0:09:41.340 --> 0:09:44.100 own battles, but what's most important and what really came 0:09:44.100 --> 0:09:45.780 through for me is the fact that you are a 0:09:45.780 --> 0:09:48.990 team. You have to work together and try to find 0:09:48.990 --> 0:09:52.620 that balance between managing your own independence and working with 0:09:52.620 --> 0:09:56.010 that other person on your shared goals because we're not 0:09:56.010 --> 0:09:58.470 in a world anymore where you just kind of decide 0:09:58.470 --> 0:10:00.570 to let your other half make all the decisions for 0:10:00.570 --> 0:10:02.429 you when it comes to your finances. We're in a 0:10:02.429 --> 0:10:05.339 world now where actually having your own independence is a 0:10:05.340 --> 0:10:09.000 good thing. It's a good safety measure, but how can 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.090 you do that without shutting out your partner and how 0:10:12.090 --> 0:10:15.360 can you do that without making them feel like you're 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.690 not including them in your future? And I feel like 0:10:18.690 --> 0:10:21.390 they just tackle that whole subject in a very down 0:10:21.390 --> 0:10:24.420 to earth way. It is American, so if you're a 0:10:24.420 --> 0:10:26.400 British reader, you might have to kind of get on 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.030 board with, like, the American language and the American financial 0:10:30.030 --> 0:10:32.309 system, which is different from ours. But if you can 0:10:32.309 --> 0:10:34.710 see past that, there are universal truths in there that I 0:10:34.710 --> 0:10:35.820 think will resonate with everyone. 0:10:36.090 --> 0:10:39.300 Yeah, no, absolutely. And obviously, it is a book written 0:10:39.300 --> 0:10:42.900 by a couple, the examples in there are all couples. 0:10:43.860 --> 0:10:46.290 If you're single, is it still a worthwhile read? 0:10:46.589 --> 0:10:48.929 I think so. Yeah. I think it's good to be aware of a lot 0:10:48.929 --> 0:10:50.850 of these issues before you get into a relationship with 0:10:50.850 --> 0:10:54.179 someone because I think it can be really, really hard 0:10:54.179 --> 0:10:56.490 to address this stuff once you're further down the line. 0:10:56.730 --> 0:10:59.550 And goodness knows a number of people that I speak 0:10:59.550 --> 0:11:03.120 to who get together with someone and they're really squeamish 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:05.700 about asking those questions on the early dates because they 0:11:05.700 --> 0:11:08.189 don't think it's very romantic. And you can just picture 0:11:08.190 --> 0:11:10.170 the scene in a restaurant where like you're having a 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:12.540 very lovely candle at meal and then you bring up 0:11:12.540 --> 0:11:16.110 the subject of how much have you got in your ISA? It's a bit of a passion 0:11:16.110 --> 0:11:20.040 killer. But I think if you do have this kind 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:23.670 of stuff in mind when you're going into relationships, then 0:11:23.670 --> 0:11:27.179 you can have those conversations early on because communication is 0:11:27.179 --> 0:11:29.760 key. So long as you keep talking and you're doing 0:11:29.760 --> 0:11:33.240 it in an empathetic and compassionate way with one another, 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:34.980 and the book's got lots of exercises that will show 0:11:34.980 --> 0:11:37.050 you how to do that, then I think you're on 0:11:37.050 --> 0:11:39.270 the right path, even if you're quite different people and 0:11:39.270 --> 0:11:41.970 you've come from maybe quite different backgrounds, that's not an 0:11:41.970 --> 0:11:45.450 insurmountable challenge. You can still work it out to quote 0:11:45.510 --> 0:11:49.950 the Beatles/ Stevie Wonder. You can still overcome those obstacles 0:11:49.980 --> 0:11:51.959 if you're committed to working together as a team. 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.140 Do you find that you've managed your money any differently after 0:11:55.140 --> 0:11:55.890 you've read the book? 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.760 Yeah. So in terms of my own relationship, I'm definitely 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:01.500 going to give this to my other half because I 0:12:01.500 --> 0:12:04.050 think there is a lot of food for thought in 0:12:04.050 --> 0:12:08.670 there and it will also help me and him maybe 0:12:08.730 --> 0:12:11.160 address some of these difficult issues that can come up 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:13.559 in a relationship in a way that will take the 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:15.660 heat out of it. And I think that that will 0:12:15.660 --> 0:12:19.740 definitely be helpful. So, yeah. So coming onto more personal 0:12:19.740 --> 0:12:22.920 development books, Sean, your next book that you want to 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:26.550 chat about is Atomic Habits. Can you tell me in 0:12:26.550 --> 0:12:28.440 one sentence what this is about? 0:12:28.710 --> 0:12:31.650 Atomic Habits by James Clear. It's a big global success 0:12:31.650 --> 0:12:35.460 story. Over 50 million copies have been sold and really 0:12:35.460 --> 0:12:39.210 it's all about how you can use the different techniques 0:12:39.450 --> 0:12:43.080 within the book to create new good habits. 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:44.580 So what drew you to this book? 0:12:45.210 --> 0:12:47.670 On one level, this is a really practical book that 0:12:47.670 --> 0:12:51.300 provides lots of different examples and exercises that you can 0:12:51.300 --> 0:12:54.510 go through and frameworks to create habits. On the other 0:12:54.510 --> 0:12:57.510 hand, and what drew me in was the bigger picture 0:12:57.510 --> 0:13:00.330 piece around it, which is the early kind of chapters. 0:13:00.330 --> 0:13:01.890 And for me, the real kind of thrust of the 0:13:01.890 --> 0:13:05.219 book was that it's actually more about identity and about 0:13:05.220 --> 0:13:07.890 who you are and who you want to become as 0:13:07.890 --> 0:13:11.370 a person as opposed to the different things that maybe 0:13:11.370 --> 0:13:14.370 you want to do. To kind of use an example, James Clear 0:13:14.370 --> 0:13:16.679 talks a bit about if you're going to the gym, often 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.200 people say, and it'll be a classic New Year's resolution, " 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:20.640 I want to go to the gym three days a 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.100 week," let's say. But you're unlikely to keep that up 0:13:23.100 --> 0:13:26.309 if it hasn't fundamentally become part of your identity and 0:13:26.309 --> 0:13:28.410 who you are. I think what he's really doing is 0:13:28.410 --> 0:13:30.780 trying to encourage you first to think about, " Well, who 0:13:30.780 --> 0:13:32.580 is it that I want to become?" And if you frame 0:13:32.580 --> 0:13:33.750 it like that and you say, " Well, I want to 0:13:33.750 --> 0:13:38.400 become somebody who's healthy and fit and strong," then you're 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.939 much more likely to find the habits and the behaviors 0:13:41.940 --> 0:13:44.730 that you want to do to get there, sustain and 0:13:44.970 --> 0:13:46.950 the things that you're actually going to carry on doing. 0:13:47.070 --> 0:13:52.050 Yeah. He definitely unpacks what has to go into making those 0:13:52.050 --> 0:13:55.110 habits stick and it's all very well having a system 0:13:55.110 --> 0:13:57.720 in place if you want to have your trainers beside 0:13:57.720 --> 0:13:59.309 the bed so that when you get up in the 0:13:59.309 --> 0:14:01.589 morning, you just see the trainers there and you've got 0:14:01.590 --> 0:14:05.250 one less excuse not to go to the gym. But ultimately, if 0:14:05.250 --> 0:14:08.400 you don't believe that actually you're someone who can become 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:10.320 fitter and healthier and that you don't see that as 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.870 part of your identity, then yeah, I can see why 0:14:13.110 --> 0:14:15.450 you're going to fail at the first hurdle. And I 0:14:15.450 --> 0:14:20.070 feel like that's got so much relevance for finance because 0:14:20.190 --> 0:14:22.740 so many people I meet will say to me, " Oh, 0:14:22.740 --> 0:14:25.020 I'm terrible with money. I'm never going to get better 0:14:25.020 --> 0:14:28.500 with this." And I feel like once you start identifying 0:14:28.500 --> 0:14:32.010 in that way, that's half the battle there that you're 0:14:32.010 --> 0:14:35.460 not winning because ultimately you're putting that label on yourself. 0:14:35.460 --> 0:14:38.940 And it's something that I think in Britain, especially actually, 0:14:38.940 --> 0:14:41.850 we feel very comfortable saying, but in other cultures and 0:14:41.850 --> 0:14:44.820 other countries, not so much. And that's what I find quite 0:14:44.820 --> 0:14:47.910 interesting about the book. It's challenging us all to think 0:14:47.910 --> 0:14:50.761 about the identities that we create for ourselves. Yeah. 0:14:50.761 --> 0:14:52.080 I think you're absolutely right. And that's one of the things that I've taken 0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:59.040 from it, which is if I want to think of myself as somebody who is confident with their finances, then what 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:00.780 are the different habits that come off the back of 0:15:00.780 --> 0:15:02.190 that? And this is where we start thinking a bit 0:15:02.190 --> 0:15:04.200 more about some of the tactical things that you can 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:07.650 actually do, but he talks about habit stacking. So where 0:15:07.650 --> 0:15:10.740 you've probably already got quite a lot of different habits 0:15:10.740 --> 0:15:13.470 that are not bad or good, they might be neutral 0:15:13.470 --> 0:15:16.710 in and of themselves, but how do you use them 0:15:16.710 --> 0:15:18.720 and leverage them to start bringing through the habits that 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.030 are going to help you achieve your identity? So for 0:15:21.030 --> 0:15:23.280 me, that might be, and I'm sure I'm not alone 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:24.810 in this, the first thing I do when I wake 0:15:24.810 --> 0:15:26.880 up in the morning, reach for the phone, start flicking 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.420 through the socials, maybe like read a bit of the news. But if 0:15:30.420 --> 0:15:32.220 I'm thinking about, well, how do I start to achieve 0:15:32.220 --> 0:15:35.730 that identity of being somebody who is more financially aware 0:15:35.730 --> 0:15:39.390 and confident, then actually before I kind of give myself 0:15:39.390 --> 0:15:41.970 the endorphin rush of checking the socials, let's have a 0:15:41.970 --> 0:15:44.700 look, what's my bank balance and how much have I got in my savings? Let's 0:15:44.700 --> 0:15:47.010 build that up as the habit so that actually when 0:15:47.010 --> 0:15:49.230 you do reach for your phone, because you are inevitably 0:15:49.230 --> 0:15:51.690 going to do that, it's also linked to feeling more 0:15:51.690 --> 0:15:53.010 confident about your finances. 0:15:53.430 --> 0:15:55.710 That's interesting. Although I have to say, Sean, you're a 0:15:55.710 --> 0:15:57.359 brave man if the first thing you do in the 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.660 morning is check your bank balance. But maybe that's the 0:16:00.660 --> 0:16:04.770 point. Actually, it's about just having these habits in place 0:16:04.770 --> 0:16:07.560 so that you are not being daunted by these things 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.250 because often people get so intimidated by the idea of 0:16:11.250 --> 0:16:13.200 doing something like checking their bank balance. They've built it 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.150 up in their head and because they don't have a 0:16:15.150 --> 0:16:19.050 system for actually making that a daily habit, then it 0:16:19.050 --> 0:16:22.170 just never happens. Whereas, yeah, why not do it first thing in the morning? 0:16:22.740 --> 0:16:26.430 At least you get it over and done with. And 0:16:26.730 --> 0:16:29.010 have you made any changes in your own life since 0:16:29.010 --> 0:16:29.700 reading this book? 0:16:30.300 --> 0:16:32.820 I'm a chronic nail biter and I have been for 0:16:32.820 --> 0:16:35.370 a very, very long time. And it's maybe not encouraged 0:16:35.370 --> 0:16:37.650 me to stop quite yet, but I'm definitely much more 0:16:37.650 --> 0:16:39.360 aware now of when I'm doing it, which is a 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.100 good thing. So I'm on a bit of a journey 0:16:41.130 --> 0:16:42.900 with stopping that habit, but I'm getting there. 0:16:43.110 --> 0:16:44.250 Brilliant. That's good to hear. 0:16:44.250 --> 0:16:46.710 Yeah. What about you, Iona? Have you picked up any 0:16:46.710 --> 0:16:47.460 new habits? 0:16:47.670 --> 0:16:52.020 Yeah, I have. So actually, like you, the temptation to 0:16:52.020 --> 0:16:54.450 just pick up my phone in the morning is really 0:16:54.450 --> 0:16:57.720 strong. And instead, what I say to myself is that 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.850 I'm going to read a non- fiction book in the 0:16:59.850 --> 0:17:02.400 morning and a fiction book at night. Now, I don't 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:06.600 always succeed, but if I have that habit in place 0:17:06.630 --> 0:17:09.510 and it's just something that I do that's tied in 0:17:09.510 --> 0:17:13.199 with waking up and going to bed, then these are 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:16.109 the windows that I know I should be reading in. 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.990 And the great thing about that is that actually the 0:17:18.990 --> 0:17:21.480 nonfiction book could be a finance book. In the past few 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.430 weeks from we've been reading these books for the book 0:17:23.430 --> 0:17:26.100 club, it's been a really good time. And actually, it 0:17:26.130 --> 0:17:28.859 helps you start the day then with a very enlightened 0:17:28.890 --> 0:17:31.530 mindset as opposed to getting quite stressed out about the 0:17:31.530 --> 0:17:34.980 latest news. So yeah, I feel that this book's definitely 0:17:34.980 --> 0:17:39.119 made me think differently about my own habits. And ultimately, 0:17:39.210 --> 0:17:42.179 life is made up of what we do habitually. It's 0:17:42.390 --> 0:17:44.369 who we are, it's how we behave. And I think 0:17:44.369 --> 0:17:47.010 sometimes there is that disconnect between who we think we 0:17:47.010 --> 0:17:48.899 are or who we want to be and what we 0:17:48.900 --> 0:17:51.060 actually do in our day- to- day life. And we're 0:17:51.060 --> 0:17:52.379 never going to get it perfectly right. 0:17:52.380 --> 0:17:55.290 Great. I think this is the last book. It's The Anxiety 0:17:55.290 --> 0:17:58.320 Solution, isn't it, by Chloe Brotheridge? Could you tell us 0:17:58.320 --> 0:17:58.920 what it's all about? 0:17:59.340 --> 0:18:02.639 So the Anxiety Solution is a book that is really 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.630 designed, as the name suggests, to help you address your 0:18:06.630 --> 0:18:11.100 anxiety, whether that is at a kind of low level 0:18:11.250 --> 0:18:15.090 or whether it's something that is more chronic and diagnosable. 0:18:15.660 --> 0:18:20.160 Chloe is a qualified hypnotherapist, but she is also popular 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.070 on social media because she is very good at sharing 0:18:23.070 --> 0:18:26.010 practical strategies for helping you manage your anxiety. 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:27.359 Why should people read it? 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:32.369 I think we all feel anxious and that might be 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.070 just from time to time at quite a low level 0:18:35.580 --> 0:18:37.950 or it could be something that happens on a regular 0:18:37.950 --> 0:18:41.940 basis. And I know at various points, I've had anxiety 0:18:41.970 --> 0:18:45.899 and that has been on a big spectrum ranging from 0:18:46.109 --> 0:18:50.880 mild to quite severe. And when your anxiety becomes more 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.399 severe, it not only gets in the way of you 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:55.530 being able to enjoy life, it actually gets in the 0:18:55.530 --> 0:18:57.359 way of you being able to make good decisions as 0:18:57.359 --> 0:19:02.310 well. And that's why being anxious shouldn't just become something 0:19:02.310 --> 0:19:04.949