1 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:07,770 Speaker 1: Welcome to the beauty podcast with Sally. He's the straight 2 00:00:07,770 --> 00:00:11,220 Speaker 1: talking no nonsense and zero bullshit podcast written and presented 3 00:00:11,220 --> 00:00:13,610 Speaker 1: by me. Sally here's and brought to you by Avon. 4 00:00:14,490 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: We'll be discussing a different topic each week with a 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,139 Speaker 1: host of industry experts at the very top of their 6 00:00:19,140 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: game in every show. There'll be a Q and A 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: with them and me. And we really want to hear 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: from you. Ask us any beauty related question or tell 9 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,910 Speaker 1: us which topics you'd like to cover. Me and use 10 00:00:29,910 --> 00:00:34,019 Speaker 1: the hashtag the beauty podcast with Sally. Today's topic is 11 00:00:34,020 --> 00:00:37,980 Speaker 1: beauty and grooming is a form of expression and empowerment. 12 00:00:37,979 --> 00:00:40,110 Speaker 2: Now you may not realize but the reason I ended 13 00:00:40,110 --> 00:00:42,150 Speaker 2: up in this job is that I was born with 14 00:00:42,150 --> 00:00:46,409 Speaker 2: a genetic skin condition called Theo says inherited from my father. 15 00:00:46,409 --> 00:00:49,140 Speaker 2: It causes my skin cells to turn over too quickly 16 00:00:49,530 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: and manifests itself in very dry often flaky skin. Heavily 17 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,220 Speaker 2: lined hands and limbs the itch like mad and still 18 00:00:56,220 --> 00:00:58,470 Speaker 2: have to be basted like Turkey has since I step 19 00:00:58,470 --> 00:01:02,010 Speaker 2: out to the shower. I was teased at school self-conscious 20 00:01:02,010 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: throughout adolescence. Now sometimes still mocked online. Instead of killing 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: my confidence it made me grateful for what I can 22 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: do to manage the condition. I became obsessed at a 23 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:15,839 Speaker 2: young age with the magical powers of products good skincare 24 00:01:15,870 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 2: and makeup and how I could transform and to an 25 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: extent control what others saw as a curse or disfigurement. 26 00:01:22,650 --> 00:01:28,020 Speaker 2: I was empowered by research experimentation practice and knowledge so 27 00:01:28,020 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: much so that my NHS dermatologist discharged me at 11 28 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:33,810 Speaker 2: years old because I was doing a better job at 29 00:01:33,810 --> 00:01:36,990 Speaker 2: treating make the Oasis than they were. That sense of 30 00:01:36,990 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 2: control of being on top of my condition has stayed 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,350 Speaker 2: with me forever and influences many of my beauty decisions 32 00:01:43,350 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 2: beyond it. A red leapt to hide hangover skin a 33 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,510 Speaker 2: brightening primer and perky cream blush to hide fatigue and 34 00:01:50,510 --> 00:01:53,900 Speaker 2: kill a bright shadow. When I'm feeling gloomy and down. 35 00:01:54,210 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: Today's guest has overcome her own challenge with the power 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,020 Speaker 2: of canny beauty writer blogger and author and the Beddington 37 00:02:01,020 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: lost all her hair almost overnight. At just 20 years 38 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,590 Speaker 2: old despite there she began her own beauty blog and 39 00:02:07,590 --> 00:02:11,820 Speaker 2: has contributed beauty features to glossies and newspapers. I want 40 00:02:11,820 --> 00:02:14,820 Speaker 2: to know how when something many of us dread happening 41 00:02:14,820 --> 00:02:18,119 Speaker 2: occurred she got back in the saddle and harnessed beauty 42 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,780 Speaker 2: as a tool for empowerment. Emma tell me what happened 43 00:02:22,430 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: because it's like an anxiety dream isn't it. 44 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,940 Speaker 3: Yeah it kind of is. So I was 20 I 45 00:02:29,940 --> 00:02:33,750 Speaker 3: was in my first year at university I had a 46 00:02:33,750 --> 00:02:38,910 Speaker 3: jealous distant boyfriend a workload that was absolutely insane and 47 00:02:38,910 --> 00:02:41,220 Speaker 3: I got to the end of that first year and 48 00:02:41,220 --> 00:02:44,070 Speaker 3: by her side coming out in literal handfuls there was 49 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:47,910 Speaker 3: her everywhere. My bed was literally covered in hay. You'd 50 00:02:47,910 --> 00:02:49,500 Speaker 3: wake up in the morning and there'd be hair on 51 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:51,930 Speaker 3: the pillow. Yeah there are pictures from that time because 52 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:54,620 Speaker 3: I only vaguely remember six. It was really traumatic. Obviously 53 00:02:55,590 --> 00:02:58,380 Speaker 3: there's like a carpet of hair across the entire bedroom 54 00:02:58,460 --> 00:03:01,410 Speaker 3: sort of wood developing like a day it was just 55 00:03:01,410 --> 00:03:02,859 Speaker 3: coming out in handfuls. 56 00:03:03,060 --> 00:03:06,820 Speaker 2: And so you were an overachiever weren't you. You were Oxbridge. 57 00:03:06,870 --> 00:03:09,420 Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah. And it is a time 58 00:03:09,419 --> 00:03:11,820 Speaker 2: of incredible anxiety for lots of people isn't it when 59 00:03:11,820 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: they're when they're at university particularly in the top tier. 60 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:17,910 Speaker 3: Oh it was it was definitely the most stressful time 61 00:03:17,910 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 3: of my life. People say that Alopecia is not necessarily 62 00:03:21,330 --> 00:03:24,150 Speaker 3: stress related but I think clearly a lot of people 63 00:03:24,150 --> 00:03:27,780 Speaker 3: I know anecdotally have stress triggers for this really probably 64 00:03:27,860 --> 00:03:32,540 Speaker 3: are definitely the worst you know. So I wasn't that surprised. 65 00:03:32,550 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 3: I'd had sort of patchy hair loss very occasionally as 66 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,490 Speaker 3: a child so it was clearly something that was sort 67 00:03:37,490 --> 00:03:40,020 Speaker 3: of there in the background. And then this sort of 68 00:03:40,100 --> 00:03:45,450 Speaker 3: wholesale combination of circumstances I think still I do believe 69 00:03:45,450 --> 00:03:49,140 Speaker 3: set off. I don't think it's coincidence. So I mean 70 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:52,500 Speaker 3: everyone has that bloody boyfriend when they're 22 married to 71 00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: him now. 72 00:03:55,030 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 4: You would hope that the legacy doesn't last forever but 73 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 4: in your case it sounds like it was a trigger. 74 00:04:00,450 --> 00:04:04,290 Speaker 4: So how did you then act because presumably well as 75 00:04:04,290 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 4: you say it was deeply traumatic at the time. When 76 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 4: did you realize that this is just what was going 77 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,340 Speaker 4: to happen. There was nothing you could do to stop it. 78 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,180 Speaker 5: I think that took a while actually. As I say 79 00:04:15,180 --> 00:04:18,450 Speaker 5: having had some alopecia as a child those kind of 80 00:04:18,450 --> 00:04:21,090 Speaker 5: assumption that it's probably gonna grow back at some point 81 00:04:21,089 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 5: and I think in the sort of early months I 82 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,900 Speaker 5: mean obviously I went see a dermatologist and I think 83 00:04:24,900 --> 00:04:27,750 Speaker 5: the assumption at least at the start was this is 84 00:04:27,750 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 5: something we can try and do something about. I took 85 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,789 Speaker 5: steroids oral steroids for a year. Well thanks Doctor X 86 00:04:35,790 --> 00:04:39,840 Speaker 5: will not give your name to absolutely no effect. Apart 87 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:41,969 Speaker 5: from blowing me up like a polar fish of course 88 00:04:41,970 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 5: and being constantly hungry and going quite far. So now 89 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,570 Speaker 5: I think it took a while a really long time 90 00:04:48,570 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 5: actually to think well this is permanent and a fairly 91 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 5: long time to think well this is a long term 92 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,849 Speaker 5: thing and I have to you know find ways of 93 00:04:56,850 --> 00:04:59,370 Speaker 5: managing it and being comfortable with it. 94 00:04:59,850 --> 00:05:02,490 Speaker 6: So before we get onto that part I just want 95 00:05:02,490 --> 00:05:04,940 Speaker 6: to let people know what total alopecia means because I 96 00:05:04,940 --> 00:05:08,690 Speaker 6: think I think most people think OK so somebody with 97 00:05:08,690 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 6: alopecia loses their hair on their head but actually we're 98 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,050 Speaker 6: talking about every hair on your body. Yeah that's right. 99 00:05:14,060 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 5: And it did not will happen at once it was 100 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 5: sort of initially hair on my head but then I'd 101 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,810 Speaker 5: say over the next 18 months I lost some body 102 00:05:20,810 --> 00:05:24,859 Speaker 5: hair eyebrows and eyelashes took a little bit longer to 103 00:05:24,860 --> 00:05:26,929 Speaker 5: go but also lost my eyelashes. 104 00:05:27,050 --> 00:05:29,510 Speaker 4: So they literally all the hair went for your body 105 00:05:29,510 --> 00:05:32,150 Speaker 4: and was one thing harder than the other. I think 106 00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:34,510 Speaker 4: I'd find lashes and bras harder than hair on my head. 107 00:05:34,529 --> 00:05:38,420 Speaker 3: Pant lashes by a mile of the worst. Absolutely. You 108 00:05:38,420 --> 00:05:41,029 Speaker 3: can't get up in the morning and look the way 109 00:05:41,029 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 3: you'd really like to look with no lashes. 110 00:05:43,310 --> 00:05:46,250 Speaker 6: Yeah. Because of course false lashes attached to your lashes. 111 00:05:46,589 --> 00:05:48,049 Speaker 6: You can't just whack them on. 112 00:05:48,170 --> 00:05:50,530 Speaker 5: And I've done it a couple of times but it's 113 00:05:50,630 --> 00:05:53,870 Speaker 5: it's not ideal and yeah. So so I think lashes 114 00:05:53,870 --> 00:05:55,820 Speaker 5: by a million miles was was the worst bit of 115 00:05:55,820 --> 00:05:57,830 Speaker 5: a hair on my head I can deal with body 116 00:05:57,830 --> 00:06:02,300 Speaker 5: hair frankly. It's bonus home. Browse was managed by I 117 00:06:02,300 --> 00:06:04,010 Speaker 5: didn't love it but you know you don't love any 118 00:06:04,010 --> 00:06:08,840 Speaker 5: of this but browser's manageable lashes was a really really 119 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:10,310 Speaker 5: hard thing to deal with. 120 00:06:10,310 --> 00:06:12,859 Speaker 7: I know from friends who have B now and who 121 00:06:12,860 --> 00:06:15,529 Speaker 7: have undergone chemotherapy and lost their hair for that reason 122 00:06:15,529 --> 00:06:18,980 Speaker 7: sometimes it's going back sometimes it hasn't. They have said 123 00:06:18,980 --> 00:06:21,770 Speaker 7: that they felt a loss of privacy when they lost 124 00:06:21,770 --> 00:06:25,609 Speaker 7: their hair that they it wasn't so much the hair 125 00:06:25,610 --> 00:06:28,580 Speaker 7: itself as sort of declaring to the world that they 126 00:06:28,580 --> 00:06:31,610 Speaker 7: were unwell when they didn't really feel it was anybody's 127 00:06:31,610 --> 00:06:35,370 Speaker 7: business except that of those that of their loved ones. 128 00:06:35,810 --> 00:06:38,090 Speaker 5: But I think that's why I very quickly started wearing 129 00:06:38,089 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 5: a wig and I think you're exactly right. I mean 130 00:06:41,150 --> 00:06:43,339 Speaker 5: it is you're having to show some of the meat 131 00:06:43,370 --> 00:06:45,770 Speaker 5: if you're quite vulnerable that makes you feel not quite 132 00:06:45,770 --> 00:06:49,130 Speaker 5: yourself I think. And obviously I was not ill in 133 00:06:49,130 --> 00:06:51,890 Speaker 5: any way other than this which Alopecia is an autoimmune 134 00:06:52,010 --> 00:06:55,630 Speaker 5: condition but it does nothing except get rid of your hair. 135 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,190 Speaker 5: There's no pain there's no discomfort just it is what 136 00:06:58,190 --> 00:07:02,570 Speaker 5: it is. So you know. Yes that's true but I 137 00:07:02,570 --> 00:07:05,300 Speaker 5: do think that's probably why I always wants to be 138 00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:07,820 Speaker 5: wearing a wig and you know even now I mean 139 00:07:07,820 --> 00:07:10,460 Speaker 5: at home I don't always but I would never consider 140 00:07:10,460 --> 00:07:13,970 Speaker 5: not wearing a wig out actually. 141 00:07:14,030 --> 00:07:16,630 Speaker 6: So talk to me about bras and lashes because as 142 00:07:16,630 --> 00:07:19,610 Speaker 6: I say I think this is the best that I 143 00:07:19,610 --> 00:07:21,500 Speaker 6: would find Trickett. Brian's not so much. 144 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:24,110 Speaker 3: Tell us what you can do about your bras so 145 00:07:24,590 --> 00:07:29,870 Speaker 3: quite early on. I got semi-permanent brows tattooed on and 146 00:07:29,870 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: that's why I continue to do you know the first 147 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:33,970 Speaker 3: time I went I went to some absolute cow buy 148 00:07:34,460 --> 00:07:37,940 Speaker 3: they did absolutely dreadful job I mean genuinely awful. I 149 00:07:37,940 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 3: had to do was sort of orange like blocky orange 150 00:07:41,770 --> 00:07:48,350 Speaker 3: that sounds incredibly ugly. It's horrific brows thankfully quite soon 151 00:07:48,350 --> 00:07:51,890 Speaker 3: after that I met Sophie Thorpe who is an absolute 152 00:07:51,980 --> 00:07:56,540 Speaker 3: genius semi-permanent brow art. She does all sorts of people 153 00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:59,060 Speaker 3: whose names she would never tell you and she does 154 00:07:59,060 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 3: a really beautiful job on them. So initially she was 155 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:06,110 Speaker 3: basically covering up the absolute disaster of my previous and 156 00:08:06,110 --> 00:08:09,290 Speaker 3: how frequently do you need to get those done ideally 157 00:08:09,540 --> 00:08:12,710 Speaker 3: to every two years I'd say. And it's it's it's 158 00:08:12,710 --> 00:08:15,350 Speaker 3: very good it really does work. It looks pretty decent. 159 00:08:15,350 --> 00:08:17,060 Speaker 3: I mean clearly if you've got really close up you 160 00:08:17,060 --> 00:08:21,590 Speaker 3: know it wasn't an actual actual brow hair but she 161 00:08:21,590 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: gives a hair effect it looks pretty good. 162 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,260 Speaker 6: I'm pretty happy with them and presumably I've had my 163 00:08:27,270 --> 00:08:30,830 Speaker 6: brows micro bladed not out of necessity but out of 164 00:08:30,830 --> 00:08:34,370 Speaker 6: sheer vanity and curiosity and it's great in that it 165 00:08:34,370 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 6: gives you a template doesn't it. So when they start 166 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,470 Speaker 6: to fade you know if you want to ramp up 167 00:08:39,470 --> 00:08:41,420 Speaker 6: the lack of it yeah. You can lose them as 168 00:08:41,420 --> 00:08:42,250 Speaker 6: a guy. Yeah. 169 00:08:42,260 --> 00:08:45,199 Speaker 3: And I think if you've got a good micro baiting 170 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,839 Speaker 3: artist they're going to give you a nice natural shape. 171 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: I mean Sophie looked at pictures and she asked me 172 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,790 Speaker 3: to bring in pictures of my me before I lost 173 00:08:52,790 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 3: my brows so that she could actually really have a 174 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: think about. Yeah that care is important Yeah it really 175 00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,690 Speaker 3: is because I think if you end up you don't 176 00:08:59,690 --> 00:09:02,150 Speaker 3: wanna end up with some crazy surprised brow you know 177 00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:05,420 Speaker 3: you want to get the brows that that analogy tell 178 00:09:05,470 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: you exactly that something that you'd feel happy with and 179 00:09:08,620 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 3: angered What about lashes why are the lashes the thing 180 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,730 Speaker 3: that really have driven you a bit nuts at times. 181 00:09:15,740 --> 00:09:19,380 Speaker 2: Because it's interesting with lashes because we think how I'd 182 00:09:19,460 --> 00:09:21,500 Speaker 2: feel so sad with that my mascara on but actually 183 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:23,390 Speaker 2: lashes have quite an important function. 184 00:09:23,660 --> 00:09:26,150 Speaker 3: Yeah that's very true. I mean I think cosmetically they 185 00:09:26,150 --> 00:09:27,970 Speaker 3: were the thing that made me most upset as well 186 00:09:27,980 --> 00:09:29,810 Speaker 3: I'd really be with the old completely I think I 187 00:09:29,809 --> 00:09:33,290 Speaker 3: was always a sort of liner and mascara and not 188 00:09:33,290 --> 00:09:36,290 Speaker 3: much of a lip kind of interesting. Yes it's very 189 00:09:36,290 --> 00:09:38,959 Speaker 3: true your lashes do prevent all sorts of gunk and 190 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,050 Speaker 3: dirt and pollution getting in your eyes and when you 191 00:09:42,050 --> 00:09:45,230 Speaker 3: don't have lashes you're much more susceptible to infections. I 192 00:09:45,230 --> 00:09:48,890 Speaker 3: do get eye infections pretty regularly. Your follicles tend to 193 00:09:48,890 --> 00:09:51,050 Speaker 3: get infected as well. That's something that happened to me. 194 00:09:51,350 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 3: It's happened to me more and more frequently operators or 195 00:09:54,179 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 3: something Yeah it's horrible. Obviously I'm scrupulously clean with everything 196 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,250 Speaker 3: I use on them because you have to be. But 197 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,850 Speaker 3: even so and I've had a photo shoot last year 198 00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:07,580 Speaker 3: where I had a really she did some beautiful job 199 00:10:07,580 --> 00:10:10,010 Speaker 3: and she says do your makeup shows. She was not 200 00:10:10,070 --> 00:10:13,130 Speaker 3: using anything that wasn't absolutely pristine but I ended up 201 00:10:13,130 --> 00:10:15,390 Speaker 3: in a. The next day with an eye you know 202 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:17,900 Speaker 3: eyelid the size of a tennis ball because I just 203 00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:20,910 Speaker 3: can't tolerate. Lots and lots of makeup on them anymore. 204 00:10:20,990 --> 00:10:22,490 Speaker 3: So you do have to be really really careful I 205 00:10:22,490 --> 00:10:25,069 Speaker 3: think with eyes that don't have lashes. 206 00:10:25,220 --> 00:10:28,820 Speaker 2: And what sort of meaning has has what beauty means 207 00:10:28,910 --> 00:10:33,350 Speaker 2: to you. Changed since he developed alopecia has has your 208 00:10:33,350 --> 00:10:36,380 Speaker 2: view of your looks or your relationship with your looks 209 00:10:36,380 --> 00:10:38,870 Speaker 2: I suppose changed. 210 00:10:39,020 --> 00:10:42,530 Speaker 5: I'm sure it has. And I've been living with it 211 00:10:42,530 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 5: for a long time so I suspect I know it's 212 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,170 Speaker 5: evolved over time as well. I think when I first 213 00:10:48,230 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 5: developed alopecia my main concern was by a couple of mangled. 214 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:56,060 Speaker 5: One was to make sure nobody knew or as far 215 00:10:56,059 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 5: as possible nobody knew and I was intending to sort 216 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,750 Speaker 5: of reproduce as much as possible how I looked before. 217 00:11:02,450 --> 00:11:04,459 Speaker 5: And that was a big concern I think in my 218 00:11:04,460 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 5: 20s and I think moving into my 30s I became 219 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,319 Speaker 5: a bit more comfortable I guess both with the idea 220 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,910 Speaker 5: that this was probably permanent because it is and with 221 00:11:16,910 --> 00:11:19,670 Speaker 5: the idea of I don't need to be always putting 222 00:11:19,670 --> 00:11:23,180 Speaker 5: on a full full display a full face and you 223 00:11:23,179 --> 00:11:24,770 Speaker 5: know if my eyes are sore I'm not going to 224 00:11:24,770 --> 00:11:28,010 Speaker 5: go out with you know five layers of shadow and 225 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,109 Speaker 5: a gel liner. I'm just not and I have to 226 00:11:30,110 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 5: accept that. 227 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:33,950 Speaker 4: It's funny isn't it because as much as it's empowering 228 00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:38,900 Speaker 4: sometimes to control something it's also quite empowering to say actually. 229 00:11:38,929 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 5: Some days I'm not in control of it and I'm 230 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,910 Speaker 5: just going to go out without much at all because 231 00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 5: it is what it is I mean that's such a 232 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 5: form of self acceptance isn't it in its own way 233 00:11:47,929 --> 00:11:50,750 Speaker 5: and expression is and and I'm not saying it is 234 00:11:50,750 --> 00:11:52,610 Speaker 5: easy and it really hasn't been for me I think 235 00:11:52,610 --> 00:11:54,770 Speaker 5: especially since my eyes have got much more sensitive and 236 00:11:54,770 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 5: I really struggle like I would say most days I 237 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,750 Speaker 5: don't put anything on my eyes now because I just 238 00:11:59,750 --> 00:12:01,500 Speaker 5: can't I just put a bit of bass on there 239 00:12:03,050 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 5: and that has been quite difficult to adapt to and 240 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,689 Speaker 5: I think yeah maybe I do boot up a lip 241 00:12:08,690 --> 00:12:11,089 Speaker 5: a bit now and you know make sure I'm wearing 242 00:12:11,090 --> 00:12:14,130 Speaker 5: a nice nice foundation or a nice tinted moisturizer the 243 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 5: nice blush and just feel like I can do what 244 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,579 Speaker 5: I can with what I have. I guess I'm just 245 00:12:19,580 --> 00:12:21,739 Speaker 5: trying to be a bit more comfortable with that but 246 00:12:21,740 --> 00:12:24,020 Speaker 5: there are days I'm not like you there are days 247 00:12:24,020 --> 00:12:25,340 Speaker 5: when I wake up and I'd really love to be 248 00:12:25,340 --> 00:12:29,690 Speaker 5: putting on a massive layer of mascara and a nice 249 00:12:29,690 --> 00:12:33,350 Speaker 5: big liner and and I do miss that because because 250 00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:35,209 Speaker 5: I love that and you know it was always a 251 00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:38,510 Speaker 5: fun thing I did something I enjoyed but you didn't 252 00:12:38,510 --> 00:12:41,870 Speaker 5: just stay in the game you didn't just keep wearing 253 00:12:41,870 --> 00:12:45,410 Speaker 5: makeup you started writing about makeup and you've written lots 254 00:12:45,410 --> 00:12:49,010 Speaker 5: about beauty in the years and you've written you've written 255 00:12:49,010 --> 00:12:52,670 Speaker 5: in the Guardian about beauty you've had your own beauty 256 00:12:52,670 --> 00:12:55,850 Speaker 5: blog with your friend and so did you feel that 257 00:12:55,850 --> 00:13:00,260 Speaker 5: your voice in this industry was important in that you 258 00:13:00,260 --> 00:13:02,780 Speaker 5: didn't have it quite so easy as maybe lots of 259 00:13:02,780 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 5: women do. 260 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,189 Speaker 7: Well certainly lots of beauty editors and writers. 261 00:13:06,410 --> 00:13:09,230 Speaker 5: I think it's lovely to get different perspectives and you 262 00:13:09,230 --> 00:13:11,330 Speaker 5: know I think the friend with whom I started the 263 00:13:11,330 --> 00:13:14,270 Speaker 5: blog has her own challenges to she has quite difficult skin. 264 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,610 Speaker 5: So we will be doing it from a perspective and 265 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 5: I think a lot of bloggers do have you know 266 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,630 Speaker 5: with their own challenges and I think as you said 267 00:13:20,809 --> 00:13:23,449 Speaker 5: in your introduction quite often having a bit of a 268 00:13:23,450 --> 00:13:27,170 Speaker 5: challenge to overcome is often what spurs you to do 269 00:13:27,170 --> 00:13:29,530 Speaker 5: this kind of thing or or get more interested in it. 270 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:31,690 Speaker 5: And I think that was definitely the case for me. 271 00:13:32,270 --> 00:13:34,250 Speaker 5: And there were also things like you know I got 272 00:13:34,260 --> 00:13:37,070 Speaker 5: interested in fragrance I got interested in on body stuff 273 00:13:37,070 --> 00:13:39,140 Speaker 5: and that kind of stuff none of which was affected 274 00:13:39,140 --> 00:13:41,900 Speaker 5: by alopecia. I really love as well. So I think 275 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 5: there was always I always had a love of its 276 00:13:44,929 --> 00:13:47,420 Speaker 5: and the fact that I was trying to overcome a 277 00:13:47,420 --> 00:13:51,260 Speaker 5: set of challenges. Yes it probably did sort of spur 278 00:13:51,260 --> 00:13:52,689 Speaker 5: me on to do it I think. 279 00:13:52,730 --> 00:13:56,270 Speaker 7: And what about wigs. Whenever anybody asks me more often 280 00:13:56,270 --> 00:13:59,059 Speaker 7: than not they're women who are undergoing chemo sure and 281 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,430 Speaker 7: need a wig and they always ask me for advice 282 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 7: and one of the first things I always say to 283 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 7: them is you must get it cut. This is the 284 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:08,660 Speaker 7: way when you by the way get will not be 285 00:14:08,660 --> 00:14:11,030 Speaker 7: right it must be cut. And yet there are various 286 00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:13,370 Speaker 7: salons that specialize in this I know Travis will be 287 00:14:13,370 --> 00:14:16,580 Speaker 7: has his own charity where they'll cut your wig for 288 00:14:16,580 --> 00:14:19,900 Speaker 7: you yet if I was going to mention largely because 289 00:14:19,930 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 7: I would you would you be inclined to agree. 290 00:14:21,980 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely you absolutely need to get it cut don't 291 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:26,300 Speaker 3: don't accept what you first put on your head as 292 00:14:26,380 --> 00:14:29,300 Speaker 3: the definitive the definitive story on it and yes I 293 00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:31,340 Speaker 3: was gonna say to Travis she'll be not only does 294 00:14:31,340 --> 00:14:33,590 Speaker 3: he do it but also they have a network of 295 00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:35,660 Speaker 3: salons around the country that will do it that will 296 00:14:35,660 --> 00:14:38,990 Speaker 3: both advise you on getting a wig and will cut them. 297 00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:42,180 Speaker 3: So it's really useful it's called my new hair said 298 00:14:42,380 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 3: look out that's really really handy so brilliant. He trains 299 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,830 Speaker 3: everyone in his face I mean it it's very nice 300 00:14:46,970 --> 00:14:50,420 Speaker 3: it's really lovely. Such a nice thing to do. Yes 301 00:14:50,420 --> 00:14:53,810 Speaker 3: I've always got wigs cut I get them I've really 302 00:14:53,810 --> 00:14:55,940 Speaker 3: nice weeks they have a silicone base which is very 303 00:14:55,940 --> 00:14:59,150 Speaker 3: nice because you can shower in them you can swim 304 00:14:59,150 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 3: in Oh really. Are you ever super comfortable. 305 00:15:01,020 --> 00:15:05,340 Speaker 7: They just don't shift what about representation. I feel that 306 00:15:05,340 --> 00:15:07,770 Speaker 7: things are getting better. I mean Avon has this campaign 307 00:15:07,770 --> 00:15:11,070 Speaker 7: in partnership with changing faces where they've pledged to use 308 00:15:11,070 --> 00:15:14,310 Speaker 7: models with a visible difference with sort of mark scars 309 00:15:14,310 --> 00:15:18,810 Speaker 7: burns birthmarks alopecia. Brands like Davi sells Maybelline have also 310 00:15:18,810 --> 00:15:22,110 Speaker 7: made a point of widening their definition of beauty. You've 311 00:15:22,110 --> 00:15:24,250 Speaker 7: mentioned Travis Albee's charity and then of course there's look 312 00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:27,060 Speaker 7: good feel better. He works with seriously ill women and 313 00:15:27,060 --> 00:15:30,330 Speaker 7: teaches them about skin care and makeup techniques that may 314 00:15:30,330 --> 00:15:32,550 Speaker 7: help them to feel more empowered and in control when 315 00:15:32,550 --> 00:15:35,730 Speaker 7: things seem chaotic. Do you do you feel that things 316 00:15:35,730 --> 00:15:39,660 Speaker 7: are shifting slightly or or not. Do you feel that 317 00:15:39,660 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 7: beauty is becoming a more welcoming and inclusive place for 318 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,250 Speaker 7: people who don't look the same as everyone else. 319 00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:46,980 Speaker 3: I'd like to think so. I do think that is 320 00:15:46,980 --> 00:15:50,100 Speaker 3: the case and I think the brands are doing really 321 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:52,110 Speaker 3: admirable work. But I think actually a lot of the 322 00:15:52,110 --> 00:15:54,390 Speaker 3: impetus from that came from people doing their own thing 323 00:15:54,390 --> 00:15:57,270 Speaker 3: online or doing their own YouTube and that's where I 324 00:15:57,270 --> 00:16:00,150 Speaker 3: think maybe they've picked up on the fact that beauty 325 00:16:00,150 --> 00:16:02,490 Speaker 3: can be incredibly diverse and as an audience for all 326 00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:06,479 Speaker 3: kinds of diverse beauty and that's been really lovely to 327 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 3: see I think over the past ten years it's kind 328 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,430 Speaker 3: of a sort of democratization of of beauty media in 329 00:16:11,430 --> 00:16:13,090 Speaker 3: a way and that's been really lovely. 330 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,870 Speaker 7: I think you're absolutely right. I think people now confined 331 00:16:16,020 --> 00:16:19,180 Speaker 7: their tribe very easily they can find women like that. 332 00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 7: And it sort of reminds me of you know these 333 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 7: kind of underground networks where people pass on tips and 334 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,510 Speaker 7: information absolutely that you're never gonna read in a mainstream 335 00:16:27,510 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 7: magazine or website. That needs to appeal to a mass 336 00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 7: market suddenly a niche can become a mass market through 337 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,270 Speaker 7: the relaunch of the Internet. 338 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:38,250 Speaker 3: Yes and that's really lovely I think to see and 339 00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:40,810 Speaker 3: and how great that people now can confine their tribes 340 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,490 Speaker 3: their beauty tribe so much more easily now. What have 341 00:16:44,490 --> 00:16:48,660 Speaker 3: you learned about beauty since this happened. I was thinking 342 00:16:49,380 --> 00:16:52,950 Speaker 3: when I first got alopecia My mom used to send 343 00:16:52,950 --> 00:16:55,470 Speaker 3: me off all the time for massages and to go 344 00:16:55,470 --> 00:16:57,090 Speaker 3: to Turkish baths. I think I mean she was really 345 00:16:57,090 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 3: really didn't know what to do obviously now you know 346 00:17:00,030 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 3: I'm a parent and I think how stressful and awful 347 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 3: it must have been when you can't do anything for 348 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,220 Speaker 3: your kid. So she used to send me off to 349 00:17:07,230 --> 00:17:10,710 Speaker 3: Turkish bath all the time. I mean fine while go 350 00:17:10,710 --> 00:17:13,410 Speaker 3: to Turkish baths whatever. But I think now I kind 351 00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:16,980 Speaker 3: of realize it's about seeing the sort of diversity of 352 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 3: women around you is really really nice and sort of 353 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 3: making peace with the fact that we're all living with 354 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,100 Speaker 3: something actually you know you look around there's a little 355 00:17:26,100 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 3: skinny ones there's big fat ones you know there's ones 356 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:29,340 Speaker 3: with no hair. 357 00:17:30,070 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 8: One boob and once with one boot and I really 358 00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:36,030 Speaker 8: think that there's something really sort of peaceful and lovely 359 00:17:36,030 --> 00:17:38,730 Speaker 8: about being in a space where women are sort just 360 00:17:38,910 --> 00:17:40,860 Speaker 8: letting it all hang out like that. I think that 361 00:17:40,859 --> 00:17:42,900 Speaker 8: was kind of what she was trying to to show 362 00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:44,430 Speaker 8: me and it took me a while I can probably 363 00:17:44,430 --> 00:17:48,419 Speaker 8: only really came to that in my 30s a very 364 00:17:48,420 --> 00:17:51,609 Speaker 8: emotionally intelligent thing to have done I think. I mean 365 00:17:52,270 --> 00:17:54,150 Speaker 8: I think she there was so little she could do 366 00:17:54,180 --> 00:17:56,820 Speaker 8: but that seemed to be something she thought might work 367 00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 8: and it took it took a long time. And she 368 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,820 Speaker 8: was that. But I think I kind of realized that 369 00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:04,850 Speaker 8: sort of in the last 10 years just thinking how 370 00:18:04,859 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 8: lovely is to be around women of all ages and 371 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 8: all sort of appearances and we're all going through something 372 00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 8: and we're all dealing with it and we're all so 373 00:18:13,020 --> 00:18:16,260 Speaker 8: beautiful in our own ways. So yeah it's also such 374 00:18:16,260 --> 00:18:17,740 Speaker 8: an active self care is now. 375 00:18:17,810 --> 00:18:22,290 Speaker 7: I always think that's very important. If you're feeling unhappy 376 00:18:22,380 --> 00:18:25,470 Speaker 7: about something to do with your appearance I think that 377 00:18:25,490 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 7: active self care is just an act of kindness to 378 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 7: yourself and a friend of mine had cancer in her 379 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 7: leg and she was told it was almost certainly going 380 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 7: to have to be amputated. And they said to her 381 00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:41,669 Speaker 7: the doctor said to her when we get you in 382 00:18:41,670 --> 00:18:44,700 Speaker 7: the operating theatre we're going to look at the tumor 383 00:18:44,730 --> 00:18:47,460 Speaker 7: and we're probably going to have to cut off your leg. 384 00:18:48,180 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 7: When you wake up you'll probably still feel the lag 385 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,620 Speaker 7: and that will be very upsetting for you but will 386 00:18:52,619 --> 00:18:54,630 Speaker 7: almost certainly have to take it off. Well we'll have 387 00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:56,939 Speaker 7: a look when we're in there and she woke up 388 00:18:56,940 --> 00:18:59,010 Speaker 7: after the operation she could feel her leg and she 389 00:18:59,010 --> 00:19:01,980 Speaker 7: didn't dare look at it. And she was telling me 390 00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:06,210 Speaker 7: about this after the fact and she said that finally 391 00:19:06,210 --> 00:19:08,940 Speaker 7: she had the nerve to pull back the blanket in 392 00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:10,940 Speaker 7: hospital and saw that her leg was still there. They've 393 00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:14,610 Speaker 7: managed to save the leg. And I mean I was 394 00:19:14,609 --> 00:19:17,580 Speaker 7: crying and I said I don't know what you do 395 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:20,369 Speaker 7: in that situation you're wheeled into an operating theatre and 396 00:19:20,369 --> 00:19:21,810 Speaker 7: told that when you come out you won't have a 397 00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:23,490 Speaker 7: leg and then you look and you still do have 398 00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 7: a leg. I said What on earth do you do 399 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:26,790 Speaker 7: in that situation. 400 00:19:26,790 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 4: She said I painted my toenails and I really understood it. 401 00:19:30,820 --> 00:19:33,659 Speaker 4: You know I really understood it. I think any woman 402 00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:36,210 Speaker 4: would understood and would understand it. It's kind of like 403 00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:40,350 Speaker 4: my leg yeah my toenails that can look good whether 404 00:19:40,350 --> 00:19:42,390 Speaker 4: they're on or off they're gonna let go whether they're 405 00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:45,570 Speaker 4: on or off and I am going to do a 406 00:19:45,570 --> 00:19:48,629 Speaker 4: kindness to my for my toes and do a kindness 407 00:19:48,630 --> 00:19:51,060 Speaker 4: for myself and take control I think it's a sense 408 00:19:51,060 --> 00:19:52,979 Speaker 4: of control isn't it when you do something like that. 409 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,510 Speaker 3: Oh absolutely. Sense of control and there's the kindness thing 410 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,379 Speaker 3: it's very you know you look at yourself you're a 411 00:19:58,380 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 3: bit frustrated about the way you look you're not how 412 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 3: you would ideally want to look everyone's experienced that to 413 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,460 Speaker 3: some degree or another but to be able to just 414 00:20:07,460 --> 00:20:10,129 Speaker 3: say yes and this is how I am. And actually 415 00:20:10,340 --> 00:20:12,020 Speaker 3: I can be nice. This body I can live in 416 00:20:12,020 --> 00:20:14,890 Speaker 3: this body and be kind to it and enjoy it. 417 00:20:15,050 --> 00:20:17,630 Speaker 3: And I think as you get older and you see 418 00:20:17,630 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 3: people dealing with things that are so much worse than 419 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:21,470 Speaker 3: what you're dealing with. I mean my brother has a 420 00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:24,619 Speaker 3: brain tumor so he's had no hair for long periods 421 00:20:24,619 --> 00:20:27,050 Speaker 3: of time. And I think once you've seen somebody going 422 00:20:27,050 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 3: through hearts quite honestly not having hair but being perfectly 423 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 3: healthy he's pretty brilliant. 424 00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 9: Thank you so much. We've got loads of questions from 425 00:20:36,619 --> 00:20:38,719 Speaker 9: listeners and I think that you'll be best placed to 426 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 9: answer some of them. 427 00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:43,270 Speaker 10: The beauty podcast with Sally Hughes is brought to you 428 00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:45,790 Speaker 10: by Avon where as well as buying from a rep 429 00:20:46,060 --> 00:20:48,699 Speaker 10: you can now shop Avon online for the same great 430 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:52,300 Speaker 10: beauty products. Try the best selling cream to powder foundation 431 00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 10: now available in a new matte finish. Browse online through 432 00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:59,500 Speaker 10: thousands of fantastic ranges from makeup to skincare. Perfume to 433 00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 10: body care. Simply by visiting the online store. So to 434 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,609 Speaker 10: discover your new favorite beauty product shop with your rep 435 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:08,740 Speaker 10: or just search for Avon online. 436 00:21:09,250 --> 00:21:12,740 Speaker 11: Now back to Sally answering your questions in the clinic. 437 00:21:13,820 --> 00:21:16,630 Speaker 9: So let's go straight and remember you can ask me 438 00:21:16,750 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 9: anything online if you take me and use the hashtag 439 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:21,989 Speaker 9: which I'll remind you of at the end of the show. 440 00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 9: But firstly what are the three beauty products that you 441 00:21:25,540 --> 00:21:26,889 Speaker 9: always carry. 442 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:32,869 Speaker 3: Emma the three beauty products that I always carry so 443 00:21:32,869 --> 00:21:38,810 Speaker 3: I have a nice Dolce Vita matte lip lip lipstick 444 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 3: that I really really like. It's just very very gives 445 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 3: you a bit of more of a lip but it's 446 00:21:44,090 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 3: not a big old lip and I really like that 447 00:21:45,890 --> 00:21:50,270 Speaker 3: that's always kicking around in my handbag. I have sold 448 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,990 Speaker 3: ton because I'm quite camp. I'm very very pale I'm 449 00:21:52,990 --> 00:21:55,229 Speaker 3: a Celt so I always have like a fact of 450 00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:57,900 Speaker 3: 50 soul turn which I do consider a beauty product. 451 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:03,770 Speaker 12: Yeah in my handbag and a little concealer and a 452 00:22:03,770 --> 00:22:08,430 Speaker 12: brush concealer I could away concealer confidence giver. 453 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 9: Kate are some 33 years old. And if I have 454 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,690 Speaker 9: a bad night's sleep it really shows any ideas. Emma 455 00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:17,180 Speaker 9: we have four kids between us and we can relate 456 00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 9: from when they were little. 457 00:22:19,970 --> 00:22:24,050 Speaker 12: I like something like like a facial spritz Actually I 458 00:22:24,050 --> 00:22:27,610 Speaker 12: like to just blast my face with something that's going 459 00:22:27,609 --> 00:22:30,619 Speaker 12: to like perked up a bit. Just pay out. Yeah. 460 00:22:30,650 --> 00:22:33,500 Speaker 12: Perk and plump. I think that's my cue. And then 461 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 12: an absolute ton of Blush. 462 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 6: Yeah it's such an underrated tool. They can't just go 463 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,950 Speaker 6: with it. I meet so many women who don't wear 464 00:22:42,990 --> 00:22:45,500 Speaker 6: blush and they can't leave the house without my mascara 465 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:48,109 Speaker 6: my lipstick. I'm like no concealer and blush will make 466 00:22:48,109 --> 00:22:49,900 Speaker 6: the biggest difference. Absolutely. 467 00:22:49,910 --> 00:22:54,090 Speaker 13: Because it's the biggest piece of facial real estate really. 468 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,810 Speaker 9: It's going to make the difference. I'm not so bothered 469 00:22:56,810 --> 00:23:00,200 Speaker 9: about the mascara and the lip. If if I don't 470 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,860 Speaker 9: have time to do everything. Yes I totally agree on 471 00:23:03,859 --> 00:23:07,010 Speaker 9: pink blush. It just makes you look perky happier more 472 00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:10,460 Speaker 9: awake more youthful and I would agree with that and 473 00:23:10,550 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 9: I would also add just tons of highly ironic acid. 474 00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:16,520 Speaker 9: You really don't need to spend lots of money and 475 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,790 Speaker 9: the serum containing lots of highly level acid and maybe 476 00:23:19,790 --> 00:23:23,300 Speaker 9: some vitamin C will really perk up your skin and 477 00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:26,090 Speaker 9: just plump things out. It's a bit like imagine imagine 478 00:23:26,090 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 9: kind of throwing a raisin into a glass of warm water. 479 00:23:28,910 --> 00:23:31,580 Speaker 9: It just kind of expands and plums and makes you 480 00:23:31,580 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 9: look more awake. Natalie I love wearing artistic makeup. It's 481 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,060 Speaker 9: a big part of my personality so I wear a lot. 482 00:23:39,109 --> 00:23:41,750 Speaker 9: However I also have really bad acne and I know 483 00:23:41,750 --> 00:23:44,150 Speaker 9: the makeup makes it worse. I don't want to give 484 00:23:44,150 --> 00:23:46,610 Speaker 9: the makeup a break. So are there any particular products 485 00:23:46,609 --> 00:23:48,710 Speaker 9: I should be using. So you've written a fair bit 486 00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:54,830 Speaker 9: about problem skin on your co-authored beauty blog. What would 487 00:23:54,830 --> 00:23:57,230 Speaker 9: you say to that. I would I would certainly suggest 488 00:23:57,230 --> 00:23:58,850 Speaker 9: an oil free makeup. 489 00:23:59,630 --> 00:24:02,630 Speaker 3: Yes I'd really need my my CO blogger in here 490 00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 3: because I actually have been quite lucky. I don't want 491 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,390 Speaker 3: to because I don't have it is particularly problematic skin. 492 00:24:08,810 --> 00:24:12,490 Speaker 3: I know she's a massive fan of of anything from 493 00:24:12,540 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 3: French pharmacy brands. Yes. Yeah she's she's French so. So 494 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,859 Speaker 3: if it comes from a French pharmacy and it's incredibly 495 00:24:19,730 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 3: calming then that's what she's going to be using. 496 00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:26,359 Speaker 9: I I really do believe that if you wear lots 497 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:28,310 Speaker 9: and lots and lots of makeup and have problems then 498 00:24:28,310 --> 00:24:30,710 Speaker 9: you can totally get away with it if you properly 499 00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:34,190 Speaker 9: remove it. You really need to take it off before 500 00:24:34,190 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 9: you go to sleep and it's amazing to me how 501 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,980 Speaker 9: many women worry about their problems skin and and take 502 00:24:39,980 --> 00:24:42,940 Speaker 9: meticulous care over applying their makeup then just whack away 503 00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:47,150 Speaker 9: Paulo before bad. That's disaster ing for trouble. So really 504 00:24:47,150 --> 00:24:51,740 Speaker 9: meticulous cleanse. I would certainly suggest a beta hydroxide acid 505 00:24:52,220 --> 00:24:53,950 Speaker 9: after your cleanse. 506 00:24:54,170 --> 00:24:56,869 Speaker 7: At least three times a week possibly every day once 507 00:24:56,869 --> 00:25:00,050 Speaker 7: you've built up a tolerance and the joy of beta 508 00:25:00,050 --> 00:25:03,140 Speaker 7: hydroxide acid is that it is oil soluble not just 509 00:25:03,140 --> 00:25:05,750 Speaker 7: water soluble which is what an alpha is an alpha 510 00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:08,750 Speaker 7: hydroxide acid is water soluble are beta hydroxide acid is 511 00:25:08,750 --> 00:25:11,540 Speaker 7: oil soluble so it will penetrate the oil and it 512 00:25:11,540 --> 00:25:14,479 Speaker 7: will just clear out any debris in the pores and 513 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 7: that will help you enormously and then with the rest 514 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:18,890 Speaker 7: of your skin care and makeup just make sure it's 515 00:25:18,890 --> 00:25:22,100 Speaker 7: oil free. Nothing that can clog your pores but do 516 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 7: make sure you take it off it's so important. 517 00:25:25,380 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 9: Catrin my hair changes with my hormones. So some days 518 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 9: it looks great but mostly it's rubbish. Why is that 519 00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 9: and how to make it look full and magical all month. 520 00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 13: Well Emma could tell you this family daily about rubbish 521 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,179 Speaker 13: it doesn't actually say why your hair is rubbish so 522 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,389 Speaker 13: it's hard for me to say because it's quite a 523 00:25:47,390 --> 00:25:49,670 Speaker 13: non-specific word rubbish. 524 00:25:49,670 --> 00:25:51,930 Speaker 9: I think we all feel like that sometimes they're nice 525 00:25:51,940 --> 00:25:56,780 Speaker 9: to know a flat perhaps and I would suggest switching 526 00:25:56,790 --> 00:25:59,990 Speaker 9: because I really do have very very flat puny hair 527 00:26:00,830 --> 00:26:04,729 Speaker 9: and I would suggest using a shampoo without sulphate in 528 00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:07,850 Speaker 9: it and without silicone because I do find silicone weighs 529 00:26:07,850 --> 00:26:10,310 Speaker 9: it down after a while. And if you are using 530 00:26:10,310 --> 00:26:12,980 Speaker 9: a silicon product just change to a non silicon product 531 00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:15,889 Speaker 9: quite frequently to get rid of the build up. I 532 00:26:15,890 --> 00:26:20,260 Speaker 9: do find those ingredients way my hair down a fair bit. 533 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,139 Speaker 9: And also you can use. You can use a car wash. 534 00:26:24,140 --> 00:26:26,540 Speaker 9: So a cleansing conditioner lots of those on the market 535 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,179 Speaker 9: no that just doesn't have that kind of slight Fairy 536 00:26:30,180 --> 00:26:33,180 Speaker 9: Liquid vibe to it. I just find that although it's 537 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,179 Speaker 9: counterintuitive you might think that may weigh your hair down 538 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 9: providing it doesn't have silicon in it doesn't it. And 539 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:41,790 Speaker 9: being in my early 40s What should I add to 540 00:26:41,790 --> 00:26:45,389 Speaker 9: my skincare routine to minimize wrinkles. So we're both in 541 00:26:45,390 --> 00:26:46,649 Speaker 9: our 40s. What do you do. 542 00:26:46,650 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 12: You've got glorious skin. I have glorious skin covered in makeup. 543 00:26:52,410 --> 00:26:57,660 Speaker 12: I don't not sure it's glorious underneath. I certainly stopped 544 00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:00,180 Speaker 12: using any kind of foaming cleanser and I only really 545 00:27:00,180 --> 00:27:02,970 Speaker 12: use something that's quite rich. No. Yeah I think that's 546 00:27:02,970 --> 00:27:04,770 Speaker 12: probably helped too. I think it's a good rule of 547 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 12: thumb as we get older we probably will mostly we 548 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:13,230 Speaker 12: need a little extra. So definitely do that. I confess 549 00:27:13,230 --> 00:27:16,710 Speaker 12: I'm not a great user of serums because I am 550 00:27:16,859 --> 00:27:19,979 Speaker 12: quite averse to Pfaff. No I'm sure you'll tell me. 551 00:27:19,980 --> 00:27:21,870 Speaker 12: Maybe you can tell me what I should be using. 552 00:27:21,869 --> 00:27:25,820 Speaker 12: So I maybe use a little ceremony capsule and and 553 00:27:25,859 --> 00:27:27,330 Speaker 12: a decent moisturizer. 554 00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:30,750 Speaker 7: Mm hmm. I mean Sarah mine's lovely again it's that 555 00:27:30,750 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 7: kind of cushy new richness. Yeah well in terms of 556 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:37,130 Speaker 7: wrinkles what do we know works. We know retinal works. 557 00:27:37,140 --> 00:27:39,420 Speaker 7: We know for a fact that retinal works whether you 558 00:27:39,420 --> 00:27:45,330 Speaker 7: enjoy using retinal is a completely different conversation. I personally 559 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,300 Speaker 7: don't use retinas as regularly as many of my colleagues 560 00:27:48,330 --> 00:27:51,420 Speaker 7: because I think it's a question of priorities. What's most 561 00:27:51,420 --> 00:27:54,869 Speaker 7: important to you. If wrinkles if treatment of wrinkles is 562 00:27:54,869 --> 00:27:58,710 Speaker 7: most important to you then try a retinal personally my 563 00:27:58,710 --> 00:28:01,830 Speaker 7: thing is glow I like glow. I'm less worried about 564 00:28:01,830 --> 00:28:05,550 Speaker 7: wrinkles more worried about dullness and kind of lackluster skin 565 00:28:05,580 --> 00:28:09,389 Speaker 7: so I opt for a vitamin C.. But but if 566 00:28:09,390 --> 00:28:11,430 Speaker 7: wrinkles are your thing you do really need to try 567 00:28:11,430 --> 00:28:14,930 Speaker 7: a retinal everybody does them. These days they are at 568 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,970 Speaker 7: Avon does them zipper drug does them right up to 569 00:28:18,060 --> 00:28:21,630 Speaker 7: retinas the cost 200 250 pounds and it really is 570 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,140 Speaker 7: a question of finding the one that works for you 571 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,590 Speaker 7: and they can be trial and narrow retinas. Sometimes you'll 572 00:28:28,590 --> 00:28:30,660 Speaker 7: use them and think actually I can't bear to go 573 00:28:30,660 --> 00:28:33,810 Speaker 7: through the pain barrier of skin being a bit flaky 574 00:28:33,810 --> 00:28:36,540 Speaker 7: a bit drier and a bit more sensitive for a 575 00:28:36,540 --> 00:28:39,270 Speaker 7: few weeks but it is worth persevering if you really 576 00:28:39,270 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 7: want to see those results because we know that retinal works. 577 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 7: That is an undisputed fact. Chloe how can you give 578 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,910 Speaker 7: the illusion of smaller pores without causing outbreaks. 579 00:28:49,980 --> 00:28:52,979 Speaker 12: People are plenty obsessed with their paws aren't they. Do 580 00:28:52,980 --> 00:28:55,500 Speaker 12: you find that. I know it's a thing but I've 581 00:28:55,530 --> 00:28:59,370 Speaker 12: never it's not something that I've ever been particularly you 582 00:28:59,370 --> 00:29:00,750 Speaker 12: know bothered by. 583 00:29:01,410 --> 00:29:03,750 Speaker 6: I don't wish it that I don't wish to minimize it. 584 00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:09,990 Speaker 7: No pun intended but women over 35 become incredibly preoccupied 585 00:29:09,990 --> 00:29:12,780 Speaker 7: with the size of their paws and it's I understand 586 00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:16,500 Speaker 7: why because most people's pores become more enlarged when they're 587 00:29:16,530 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 7: older but it's very hard to make women understand that 588 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,270 Speaker 7: nobody else regards your pores in the way that you do. 589 00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:25,860 Speaker 3: That was literally what I was going to say is 590 00:29:25,940 --> 00:29:29,250 Speaker 3: pores is something that only you really know see or 591 00:29:29,250 --> 00:29:32,260 Speaker 3: care about. Nobody else gives a rat's ass about your. 592 00:29:32,410 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 4: It's so true. Do you. I mean I would get 593 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,650 Speaker 4: rid of a magnifying mirror if you're that worried about it. 594 00:29:38,170 --> 00:29:42,690 Speaker 4: Yes quite frankly yes. Do you think somebody. So I 595 00:29:42,690 --> 00:29:45,270 Speaker 4: have I have a mirror that lights up and it's 596 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 4: it's the most unflattering light you can ever have an 597 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,150 Speaker 4: I like it. Yes I think it's the absolute worst 598 00:29:51,150 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 4: it could be. Yes. And so if I look all 599 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:54,630 Speaker 4: right in this mirror when I put my makeup on 600 00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:56,850 Speaker 4: I definitely look all right. Like lots of my friends 601 00:29:56,850 --> 00:29:59,930 Speaker 4: come round and like Jesus Take that mirror away from me. 602 00:29:59,950 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 4: It's causing me anxiety and depression. 603 00:30:02,790 --> 00:30:04,890 Speaker 8: I think you need sin if you know the mirror 604 00:30:05,250 --> 00:30:08,130 Speaker 8: and you know it's work then then you're. You're ready 605 00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:09,390 Speaker 8: for the mirror but you have to be ready for 606 00:30:09,390 --> 00:30:11,540 Speaker 8: the mirror don't you. You say I've just moved so 607 00:30:11,570 --> 00:30:14,430 Speaker 8: in my previous house there was parts and I did 608 00:30:14,430 --> 00:30:16,350 Speaker 8: not install this mirror but there was one of those 609 00:30:16,740 --> 00:30:20,370 Speaker 8: horrible mirrors of truth. Yeah. And know if you sort 610 00:30:20,370 --> 00:30:23,460 Speaker 8: of caught yourself unawares in it it was pretty pretty 611 00:30:23,460 --> 00:30:25,710 Speaker 8: grim it was like that when your phone opens on 612 00:30:25,710 --> 00:30:29,630 Speaker 8: front camera and you're just see the worst possible that terrible. 613 00:30:29,650 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 8: Yeah well it's kind of like that's that mirror. 614 00:30:31,710 --> 00:30:36,330 Speaker 4: I feel like I feel with this subject of empowerment 615 00:30:36,330 --> 00:30:39,690 Speaker 4: and confidence the world is divided into two types and 616 00:30:39,690 --> 00:30:42,420 Speaker 4: I don't think anybody's wrong for me knowledge is what 617 00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:44,580 Speaker 4: makes me feel in power. And so I never want 618 00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:46,709 Speaker 4: the mirror that makes me look thin or makes me 619 00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 4: look better because I want to know what's going on 620 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,570 Speaker 4: and when I know what's going on then I feel 621 00:30:51,570 --> 00:30:55,170 Speaker 4: empowered to find out ways of making things better. But 622 00:30:55,170 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 4: I quite understand why people feel empowered by the library 623 00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:59,670 Speaker 4: why people just want to look in the mirror and 624 00:30:59,670 --> 00:31:00,860 Speaker 4: feel fantastic. 625 00:31:00,910 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 3: I get it in our bathroom where I grew up 626 00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 3: there was one of those magical mirrors where everyone looked 627 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,890 Speaker 3: much better and I mean I do sometimes think wistfully 628 00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 3: of that mirror and how much better I was. 629 00:31:11,070 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 6: But in terms of shrinking your pores while you need 630 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,410 Speaker 6: to be H.A. again a beta hydroxide acid will definitely 631 00:31:16,410 --> 00:31:19,260 Speaker 6: help your poor size and then in terms of covering 632 00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:22,410 Speaker 6: them up a silicon primer is still the best some 633 00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:27,210 Speaker 6: Polly fella some makeup Polly dolls silicone primer tees you 634 00:31:27,210 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 6: what is your opinion on skincare fridges. Are they a 635 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,350 Speaker 6: fad or are they here to say stay AMA Do 636 00:31:32,350 --> 00:31:34,690 Speaker 6: you know what these are. Have you seen these on Instagram. 637 00:31:34,750 --> 00:31:36,940 Speaker 6: I have never even heard of such a thing. Is 638 00:31:36,940 --> 00:31:39,750 Speaker 6: it a fridge for your skincare. It me bar that 639 00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:42,100 Speaker 6: so you know the little mini bars that used to 640 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:44,870 Speaker 6: eat that teenage boys have next to their beds. Right 641 00:31:44,890 --> 00:31:47,410 Speaker 6: and they keep Budweiser in the world ever even though 642 00:31:47,410 --> 00:31:51,550 Speaker 6: they've probably got some lemonade in the back. They look 643 00:31:51,550 --> 00:31:53,620 Speaker 6: like that but they're kind of pink and they you 644 00:31:53,710 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 6: store your skincare in them to keep it fresh. I 645 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,770 Speaker 6: mean I think language probably prevents me from saying what 646 00:31:59,770 --> 00:32:03,310 Speaker 6: I think about. No I would say you do not 647 00:32:03,310 --> 00:32:05,110 Speaker 6: need a skincare for. I mean if you want to 648 00:32:05,110 --> 00:32:07,900 Speaker 6: put your skincare in the fridge you've got a fridge right. 649 00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:11,980 Speaker 6: Yes you've got an actual actual fridge. I find that 650 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,610 Speaker 6: moisturizers if they're super super cold they don't mountain as nicely. 651 00:32:15,610 --> 00:32:17,500 Speaker 7: They don't have as nice a texture they don't give 652 00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 7: as good glow because they don't meld together with your 653 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 7: skin so easily. But having said that you do need 654 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 7: to keep your skincare out of bright sunlight. You don't 655 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 7: want a separation issue where the oil and water separate 656 00:32:30,610 --> 00:32:32,980 Speaker 7: you get a kind of blue soupy texture that goes 657 00:32:32,980 --> 00:32:35,010 Speaker 7: off quickly. That much is true. 658 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,700 Speaker 12: I kill the only thing I keep in the fridge 659 00:32:36,790 --> 00:32:40,330 Speaker 12: is my Frederick male body cream in the summer because 660 00:32:40,330 --> 00:32:42,050 Speaker 12: I don't know really where it's in the winter and 661 00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:44,230 Speaker 12: really where it's the this winter scent. And I want 662 00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:47,810 Speaker 12: to keep it. Keep it in good condition. The next winter. 663 00:32:47,890 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 6: Nice. So yes nice and dry and cool but you 664 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 6: do not need special white goods. No no special is required. 665 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,580 Speaker 6: Emma where can we find you online. 666 00:33:00,580 --> 00:33:04,990 Speaker 12: I am on Twitter at Belgian waffling and also on 667 00:33:04,990 --> 00:33:07,450 Speaker 12: Instagram again at Belgian waffling. 668 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,230 Speaker 7: Very good username that I live in Belgium. I always 669 00:33:11,230 --> 00:33:13,490 Speaker 7: think of you as waffle in my head and I 670 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,580 Speaker 7: always have to remember your actual name because in my 671 00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:17,650 Speaker 7: head your waffle always good to have a foodstuff in 672 00:33:17,650 --> 00:33:19,430 Speaker 7: your name I find very much so. 673 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for answering our listeners questions please 674 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: do keep asking them. You can tag me anywhere on 675 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: social media except Snapchat because I'm not 12 and you 676 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,010 Speaker 1: can hashtag it. The beauty podcast with Sally and I 677 00:33:33,010 --> 00:33:35,980 Speaker 1: will find you and try and fit your question in. 678 00:33:36,010 --> 00:33:38,650 Speaker 1: In the meantime thank you so much for listening to 679 00:33:38,650 --> 00:33:40,620 Speaker 1: us the beauty podcast with me Sally. 680 00:33:40,630 --> 00:33:43,030 Speaker 11: He's with my guest Emma Beddington and brought to you 681 00:33:43,030 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 11: by Avon. See you next time. By.