1 00:00:03,570 --> 00:00:06,750 Krutika Adatia: Hello, and welcome back to On Your Marks from ACCA. 2 00:00:07,290 --> 00:00:11,700 Krutika Adatia: I'm Krutika Adatia, and I'm a chartered accountant. I now support accountancy 3 00:00:11,700 --> 00:00:15,030 Krutika Adatia: students through their training. So in this series, I sit 4 00:00:15,030 --> 00:00:17,250 Krutika Adatia: down with experts to look at how we can all 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,060 Krutika Adatia: better handle whatever life throws at us. Whether we're studying 6 00:00:21,060 --> 00:00:23,850 Krutika Adatia: for our next accountancy exams or trying to learn how 7 00:00:23,850 --> 00:00:26,640 Krutika Adatia: to stick to better habits, wherever you're at in your 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,030 Krutika Adatia: journey towards qualification on your marks is here to help 9 00:00:30,030 --> 00:00:33,510 Krutika Adatia: you tackle the process head on. And we're so delighted 10 00:00:33,510 --> 00:00:36,675 Krutika Adatia: to be back for season three. First up, we're looking 11 00:00:36,675 --> 00:00:40,170 Krutika Adatia: at communication skills. How you convey your thoughts and ideas, 12 00:00:40,350 --> 00:00:43,529 Krutika Adatia: written or oral, are essential in not only your ACCA 13 00:00:43,530 --> 00:00:47,850 Krutika Adatia: exams, but professionally and personally. But getting our point across 14 00:00:47,850 --> 00:00:50,100 Krutika Adatia: more accurately and in a way that will be heard 15 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:52,860 Krutika Adatia: can be harder than it sounds, so what can we 16 00:00:52,860 --> 00:00:55,860 Krutika Adatia: do to feel more confident in our communication? What does 17 00:00:55,860 --> 00:00:59,220 Krutika Adatia: it mean to be a good communicator? And what techniques 18 00:00:59,220 --> 00:01:02,130 Krutika Adatia: can even the chattiest amongst us learn to keep our 19 00:01:02,130 --> 00:01:05,670 Krutika Adatia: audience on our side? This is On Your Marks, because 20 00:01:05,670 --> 00:01:13,860 Krutika Adatia: you'll never know until you try. I've been fascinated by 21 00:01:13,860 --> 00:01:16,650 Krutika Adatia: communication for a little while now. I was born in 22 00:01:16,650 --> 00:01:20,069 Krutika Adatia: India, and English was not my first language. Moving to 23 00:01:20,069 --> 00:01:22,890 Krutika Adatia: UK age six and having to learn English was a 24 00:01:22,890 --> 00:01:25,980 Krutika Adatia: real struggle. People might be surprised to hear I've always 25 00:01:25,980 --> 00:01:29,340 Krutika Adatia: been self- conscious of how I communicate. And by this, 26 00:01:29,370 --> 00:01:31,709 Krutika Adatia: I don't just mean the way that I pronounce things, 27 00:01:31,709 --> 00:01:35,100 Krutika Adatia: but how I get my meaning across. Moving into leadership 28 00:01:35,100 --> 00:01:39,540 Krutika Adatia: roles, this overthinking has intensified. So to talk it all 29 00:01:39,540 --> 00:01:42,240 Krutika Adatia: through with me today, I've got Simon Hall. He's a 30 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:46,770 Krutika Adatia: former BBC TV news correspondent with 20 years experience who 31 00:01:46,770 --> 00:01:51,240 Krutika Adatia: now leads an award- winning course, Compelling Communication Skills, at 32 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:57,330 Krutika Adatia: the University of Cambridge. So Simon, tell me what got you into teaching communication? 33 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,090 Simon Hall: Oh, I've often wondered, but actually the answer is simple. 34 00:02:00,450 --> 00:02:02,490 Simon Hall: And if you don't mind me sharing a brief story 35 00:02:02,490 --> 00:02:05,490 Simon Hall: with you. You might be surprised given my background as 36 00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:08,430 Simon Hall: BBC and now at Cambridge that I was actually a 37 00:02:08,430 --> 00:02:12,418 Simon Hall: really awful kid at school. But there was one teacher, 38 00:02:12,570 --> 00:02:16,530 Simon Hall: one teacher who I loved secretly called Mrs. Osler. And 39 00:02:16,530 --> 00:02:19,260 Simon Hall: Mrs. Osler was an English teacher, and she was the 40 00:02:19,260 --> 00:02:23,280 Simon Hall: classic old hippie, so flowing clothes, lots of colors, clanking 41 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,940 Simon Hall: beads. And I secretly enjoyed her English class, it's about 42 00:02:26,940 --> 00:02:30,540 Simon Hall: the only thing I enjoyed at school. But one day, 43 00:02:30,630 --> 00:02:33,990 Simon Hall: Mrs. Osler set the class some homework and she said 44 00:02:33,990 --> 00:02:36,930 Simon Hall: to us, remember I'm only 14, a young lad. 14, 45 00:02:37,230 --> 00:02:39,510 Simon Hall: bit of an attitude. She said, " I want you to 46 00:02:39,510 --> 00:02:42,720 Simon Hall: write a story for your homework about your first love." 47 00:02:43,889 --> 00:02:47,160 Simon Hall: So we were like, " Oh, bah, homework," and not just 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,540 Simon Hall: homework, but love, ugh. Everything that does not tick a 14- year- 49 00:02:51,540 --> 00:02:54,540 Simon Hall: old lad's boxes. Anyway, I loved Mrs. Osler, so I 50 00:02:54,540 --> 00:02:58,230 Simon Hall: wrote the story, handed it in, didn't think anything else 51 00:02:58,230 --> 00:03:01,110 Simon Hall: of it until next week, we're back in class. And 52 00:03:01,110 --> 00:03:04,770 Simon Hall: Mrs. Osler is talking about the stories that people have 53 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:08,700 Simon Hall: written, and she's really going for it, said, " I saw some lovely stories." 54 00:03:08,700 --> 00:03:11,850 Simon Hall: She was a bit dramatic. " I saw some beautiful moving 55 00:03:11,850 --> 00:03:14,820 Simon Hall: stories." You get the sort of thing. " But one of 56 00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:19,080 Simon Hall: those stories, one amongst them all stood out, a beacon 57 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,220 Simon Hall: of creativity." And I'm like, " Oh, which swat was this?" 58 00:03:23,460 --> 00:03:27,419 Simon Hall: Rachel, I bet it's Rachel. Rachel with a big brace on her teeth, or 59 00:03:27,419 --> 00:03:30,840 Simon Hall: Kerry with her National Health glasses. And it was a 60 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:32,760 Simon Hall: shock, not just to myself, but the whole of the 61 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,279 Simon Hall: rest of the class when she said, " Stand up, Simon 62 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,610 Simon Hall: Hall." Now, the only time I was ever asked to 63 00:03:38,610 --> 00:03:41,040 Simon Hall: stand up was when I was in trouble so I 64 00:03:41,220 --> 00:03:45,060 Simon Hall: hesitantly got up to my feet. Said, " Your story was 65 00:03:45,660 --> 00:03:49,710 Simon Hall: beautiful. It was so powerful, so memorable, so creative." I thought, " 66 00:03:50,190 --> 00:03:54,180 Simon Hall: What on earth have I done?" And then she did the big reveal and she said, " 67 00:03:54,630 --> 00:03:57,690 Simon Hall: All of you, all 30 of you, you wrote about boys or 68 00:03:57,690 --> 00:04:02,880 Simon Hall: girls, but Simon wrote about music. Music was his first 69 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:08,250 Simon Hall: love." And I remember sitting there thinking, " I'm not quite 70 00:04:08,250 --> 00:04:11,010 Simon Hall: sure what this says about me, that everybody else is writing 71 00:04:11,010 --> 00:04:14,370 Simon Hall: about boys or girls, and I'm writing about music." But 72 00:04:14,370 --> 00:04:18,359 Simon Hall: it was, I think that moment, age 14, struggling for 73 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,310 Simon Hall: a place in the world as you often do when 74 00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:24,779 Simon Hall: you're that age, wondering where your life is going. Maybe 75 00:04:24,779 --> 00:04:27,330 Simon Hall: it was that moment that planted the seed that perhaps 76 00:04:27,330 --> 00:04:32,609 Simon Hall: words, communication was my thing. And then combine that with 77 00:04:32,610 --> 00:04:36,210 Simon Hall: Mrs. Osler and my utter admiration for her passion for 78 00:04:36,210 --> 00:04:39,060 Simon Hall: her subject and the way even us really horrible kids 79 00:04:39,060 --> 00:04:42,479 Simon Hall: were engaged by her. I wondered, maybe I could do 80 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:45,630 Simon Hall: something like that. Maybe I could lift people's eyes and 81 00:04:45,630 --> 00:04:48,330 Simon Hall: help them. And I think that moment, all those years 82 00:04:48,330 --> 00:04:50,460 Simon Hall: ago, and it was a few now, that was the moment that 83 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:52,170 Simon Hall: communication got me and that teaching got me. 84 00:04:53,610 --> 00:04:57,330 Krutika Adatia: Amazing. And what a beautiful story that you've just said 85 00:04:57,330 --> 00:05:00,060 Krutika Adatia: there. And I can already see what a great communicator 86 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:02,310 Krutika Adatia: you are. So can you tell us, what do we 87 00:05:02,310 --> 00:05:03,779 Krutika Adatia: actually mean by communication? 88 00:05:03,779 --> 00:05:09,210 Simon Hall: I think it's making a connection. People put academia around this 89 00:05:09,210 --> 00:05:13,409 Simon Hall: thing and they do theories around this thing, but communication, 90 00:05:13,410 --> 00:05:16,020 Simon Hall: you know it when you feel it. For example, why 91 00:05:16,020 --> 00:05:20,760 Simon Hall: does Barack Obama enchant a room? Why does Jacinda Ardern, the 92 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,160 Simon Hall: former prime minister in New Zealand, why does she make 93 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,640 Simon Hall: your heart glow with empathy? Why did Martin Luther King 94 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,580 Simon Hall: make your spine tingle? Why did Winston Churchill make us 95 00:05:29,580 --> 00:05:33,089 Simon Hall: feel strong and ready for a fight? It's kind of 96 00:05:33,089 --> 00:05:35,969 Simon Hall: difficult to define, but you know it when you feel 97 00:05:35,970 --> 00:05:39,330 Simon Hall: it. However, what I would say, what it comes down to 98 00:05:39,330 --> 00:05:42,839 Simon Hall: ultimately is who you are. If you can get over 99 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,750 Simon Hall: that great big threshold and not see communication as this 100 00:05:45,750 --> 00:05:48,690 Simon Hall: formal thing, well, I must follow theories and strategies and 101 00:05:48,690 --> 00:05:53,039 Simon Hall: patterns, but just be yourself in your communication, that takes 102 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,510 Simon Hall: you a long way. And if you think about the 103 00:05:54,510 --> 00:05:58,020 Simon Hall: examples I quoted from Jacinda to Churchill and the others, 104 00:05:58,290 --> 00:06:02,370 Simon Hall: massively different people, massively different styles, but they were all 105 00:06:02,370 --> 00:06:06,659 Simon Hall: outstanding communicators. What's the one thing, the one theme that 106 00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:11,190 Simon Hall: runs between them that links them all? They were authentic. They were themselves. 107 00:06:11,250 --> 00:06:13,589 Simon Hall: They said it, how they felt it and how they 108 00:06:13,589 --> 00:06:15,630 Simon Hall: saw it, and that's what cuts through. 109 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,400 Krutika Adatia: I really love that, the authenticity aspect. And you mentioned Barack Obama, actually. 110 00:06:20,850 --> 00:06:22,500 Krutika Adatia: I'm a huge fan of him, and I know he's 111 00:06:22,500 --> 00:06:25,169 Krutika Adatia: a great public speaker as well, which I'm sure we'll 112 00:06:25,170 --> 00:06:27,120 Krutika Adatia: touch on. I mean, what do you think are the 113 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,330 Krutika Adatia: foundations that make for good communication? I know you said 114 00:06:30,330 --> 00:06:34,589 Krutika Adatia: it's all individualistic, it's authentic, but what are the foundations 115 00:06:34,589 --> 00:06:35,910 Krutika Adatia: for good communication? 116 00:06:35,940 --> 00:06:39,690 Simon Hall: Yeah, I think communication itself, the sparkle is what I've 117 00:06:39,690 --> 00:06:42,930 Simon Hall: just mentioned, the authenticity. That's the sparkle to go with 118 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:45,330 Simon Hall: the substance, but of course you need the substance as 119 00:06:45,330 --> 00:06:48,570 Simon Hall: well. When I'm teaching this, the first stage is to 120 00:06:48,570 --> 00:06:51,420 Simon Hall: look at the four foundations of what I call compelling 121 00:06:51,420 --> 00:06:53,909 Simon Hall: communication because it goes with the brand of my course 122 00:06:53,910 --> 00:06:56,460 Simon Hall: and the book I've written for Cambridge as well. So 123 00:06:56,460 --> 00:06:59,790 Simon Hall: the four foundations, first of all, clarity. Be clear what 124 00:06:59,790 --> 00:07:02,070 Simon Hall: you're trying to say. If you're not clear what you're 125 00:07:02,070 --> 00:07:03,960 Simon Hall: trying to say, no one else is going to be. 126 00:07:04,350 --> 00:07:07,080 Simon Hall: And this is unusual because people find, " Oh, this is 127 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,020 Simon Hall: odd. I don't understand this," but clarity means one message, 128 00:07:10,020 --> 00:07:13,530 Simon Hall: one message per communication. It's like if you're at school 129 00:07:13,530 --> 00:07:15,810 Simon Hall: or like some of your people we're talking to today, 130 00:07:15,810 --> 00:07:18,060 Simon Hall: we've got to sit an exam. If you don't answer 131 00:07:18,060 --> 00:07:21,720 Simon Hall: the question that you posed, you're going to fail. So 132 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:25,260 Simon Hall: remember, what's the message? Clarity of message, and you've got 133 00:07:25,260 --> 00:07:26,730 Simon Hall: to be able to sum it up in just a 134 00:07:26,730 --> 00:07:30,450 Simon Hall: few words, just like an exam question. Remember always: mixed 135 00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:34,890 Simon Hall: messages make a muddle. You need clarity. After clarity, and 136 00:07:34,890 --> 00:07:37,650 Simon Hall: this is a surprise as well, it goes back to 137 00:07:37,650 --> 00:07:40,680 Simon Hall: school days, it's counterintuitive. What happens at school and college? 138 00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:44,340 Simon Hall: Oh, we're taught use really big, long, complex words and 139 00:07:44,340 --> 00:07:47,010 Simon Hall: massive sentence structures which are convoluted and have a clause 140 00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:50,520 Simon Hall: and another clause, another clause, another clause. That's not communication. 141 00:07:50,850 --> 00:07:53,970 Simon Hall: Communication is simplicity. You look at all the great public 142 00:07:53,970 --> 00:07:57,420 Simon Hall: speakers, the communicators like Barack Obama, they don't use big 143 00:07:57,420 --> 00:08:00,540 Simon Hall: words. They don't use jargon, the trade of their industry. 144 00:08:00,750 --> 00:08:04,410 Simon Hall: They don't use long sentences, they keep it simple. And 145 00:08:04,410 --> 00:08:07,650 Simon Hall: this is something I say time and again: simplicity is 146 00:08:07,650 --> 00:08:12,060 Simon Hall: not stupid. Simplicity is smart in communication. So first, be 147 00:08:12,060 --> 00:08:17,760 Simon Hall: clear. Second, be simple. Third, be brief. Again, this is 148 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:21,570 Simon Hall: counterintuitive. Something that matters to you. The instinct is go 149 00:08:21,570 --> 00:08:23,220 Simon Hall: on and on and on and on and on and 150 00:08:23,220 --> 00:08:27,390 Simon Hall: on and on some more. But actually, no, less is more. Wonderful 151 00:08:27,390 --> 00:08:30,690 Simon Hall: saying in communication, you can make more impact by using 152 00:08:30,690 --> 00:08:33,839 Simon Hall: less words and less work. And the case study in 153 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,750 Simon Hall: this, the iconic case study, you heard the Gettysburg address, 154 00:08:36,750 --> 00:08:40,530 Simon Hall: of course, the iconic speech by Abraham Lincoln, Civil War. 155 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:43,410 Simon Hall: Now that's 160 odd years ago. We still talk about 156 00:08:43,410 --> 00:08:47,130 Simon Hall: it today. It's celebrated. It's famous. It's fated. Because it's 157 00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:50,100 Simon Hall: so celebrated, people tend to think it went on for 158 00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:53,040 Simon Hall: a long time. How long do you think the Gettysburg 159 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:54,150 Simon Hall: address lasted for? 160 00:08:54,929 --> 00:08:57,478 Krutika Adatia: Because you're alluding to simplicity and clarity, I'm going to... 161 00:08:58,260 --> 00:08:59,970 Krutika Adatia: Maybe just a minute or two, I don't know? 162 00:08:59,970 --> 00:09:02,520 Simon Hall: That's good because most people would say, they know what's 163 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,380 Simon Hall: coming. They know it's going to be short. They'll say 164 00:09:04,380 --> 00:09:05,370 Simon Hall: five minutes, 10 minutes? 165 00:09:05,370 --> 00:09:05,400 Krutika Adatia: Okay. 166 00:09:05,730 --> 00:09:06,420 Simon Hall: Two minutes. 167 00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:07,831 Krutika Adatia: Oh, wow, okay. So not too far off, yeah. 168 00:09:07,831 --> 00:09:09,571 Simon Hall: Only two minutes, 270 odd words. 169 00:09:09,571 --> 00:09:09,961 Krutika Adatia: Oh, wow. 170 00:09:10,410 --> 00:09:12,630 Simon Hall: And yet it made an enormous impact. And here's the 171 00:09:12,630 --> 00:09:15,960 Simon Hall: twist to that story. The day of that massive event 172 00:09:16,110 --> 00:09:20,190 Simon Hall: when Lincoln did Gettysburg, the speaker before him spoke for 173 00:09:20,190 --> 00:09:24,330 Simon Hall: two hours, and no one remembers his name. Lincoln does 174 00:09:24,330 --> 00:09:28,170 Simon Hall: two minutes, bang, goes down in history. So point three, 175 00:09:28,500 --> 00:09:33,360 Simon Hall: brevity. And then you get to authenticity. The real you, 176 00:09:33,570 --> 00:09:35,550 Simon Hall: say it. As you see it, say it as you 177 00:09:35,550 --> 00:09:35,880 Simon Hall: feel it. 178 00:09:36,570 --> 00:09:42,449 Krutika Adatia: I love those four really effective foundations for good communication 179 00:09:42,450 --> 00:09:44,370 Krutika Adatia: because Simon, you know what? They're going to be useful 180 00:09:44,370 --> 00:09:46,800 Krutika Adatia: to our students in the exam as well. And you 181 00:09:47,070 --> 00:09:51,179 Krutika Adatia: alluded in your answer as well to answer the question 182 00:09:51,179 --> 00:09:56,760 Krutika Adatia: and be clear, simple, brevity, authenticity. Absolutely love that. Now, 183 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,410 Krutika Adatia: when you were introducing why you got into communication and 184 00:10:01,410 --> 00:10:03,150 Krutika Adatia: your interest in it, you gave us a bit of 185 00:10:03,150 --> 00:10:07,829 Krutika Adatia: a story. These amazing speakers that you've referred to as 186 00:10:07,830 --> 00:10:13,350 Krutika Adatia: well, Winston Churchill, Barack Obama, they do storytelling really well 187 00:10:13,380 --> 00:10:19,170 Krutika Adatia: as well. Can you just tell us a little bit about the importance of storytelling and 188 00:10:19,170 --> 00:10:21,780 Krutika Adatia: why it can be so impactful when we're communicating? 189 00:10:21,780 --> 00:10:24,809 Simon Hall: Well, how long have you got? If we've got a few hours, I'd be allowed to. But 190 00:10:24,809 --> 00:10:27,510 Simon Hall: in essence, stories are what bind us together as a 191 00:10:27,510 --> 00:10:31,470 Simon Hall: species. Why? It goes back to the days before books, 192 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:35,970 Simon Hall: printed materials, certainly before this newfangled internet thing. How did 193 00:10:35,970 --> 00:10:39,360 Simon Hall: we pass knowledge or wisdom or information around communities and 194 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:44,010 Simon Hall: indeed around areas through storytelling and classically from the elders 195 00:10:44,010 --> 00:10:47,790 Simon Hall: around the campfire telling stories. That's how we learned. That's 196 00:10:47,790 --> 00:10:50,760 Simon Hall: how we explored and understood. So that is ingrained in 197 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,090 Simon Hall: us as a species and that has always stayed, and 198 00:10:54,090 --> 00:10:57,030 Simon Hall: it's a funny thing. When I'm working on a presentation 199 00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:59,100 Simon Hall: with someone, if it's an important one, for example, and 200 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:03,690 Simon Hall: I did a fairly big political one recently. The minister 201 00:11:03,690 --> 00:11:06,210 Simon Hall: in question was getting concerned that he wasn't cutting through 202 00:11:06,210 --> 00:11:09,150 Simon Hall: to his audience. And his speechwriters were giving him lots 203 00:11:09,150 --> 00:11:11,550 Simon Hall: of facts and figures and he wanted to know, "Well, what do 204 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,550 Simon Hall: you think's going wrong?" So I junked all that. I said, " 205 00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:17,490 Simon Hall: Let's tell some stories. Tell some stories about your life, 206 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:21,570 Simon Hall: your experience with your constituents, why you are in politics." 207 00:11:22,170 --> 00:11:25,500 Simon Hall: And he was a bit wary. A bit worry, you would be, because it's a complete change of 208 00:11:25,500 --> 00:11:30,120 Simon Hall: approach, isn't it? Told some stories, went down an absolute 209 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,650 Simon Hall: storm. So storytelling is incredibly powerful. Storytelling makes a connection 210 00:11:34,710 --> 00:11:37,410 Simon Hall: with audiences. And again, when I'm teaching this, if you 211 00:11:37,410 --> 00:11:41,640 Simon Hall: want a way to remember it, facts fade, but stories stick. 212 00:11:42,270 --> 00:11:45,780 Krutika Adatia: Yeah, I love that. And I think even once we leave 213 00:11:45,780 --> 00:11:48,390 Krutika Adatia: this conversation, I will remember the story you said at 214 00:11:48,390 --> 00:11:51,570 Krutika Adatia: the beginning about Ms. Osler, and you writing that story 215 00:11:51,570 --> 00:11:54,900 Krutika Adatia: about your love for music. Is it because it's evoking 216 00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:56,550 Krutika Adatia: emotion as well? 217 00:11:56,790 --> 00:12:01,140 Simon Hall: Yeah, absolutely. Emotions is what stories do. And I'll give 218 00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:04,319 Simon Hall: you a brief example if you like. The imposter syndrome. 219 00:12:05,309 --> 00:12:06,660 Simon Hall: We all know the imposter syndrome. 220 00:12:06,660 --> 00:12:06,660 Krutika Adatia: Yes. 221 00:12:06,661 --> 00:12:08,099 Simon Hall: Yes, I can see you cringe, yeah. 222 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:08,280 Krutika Adatia: I mean, I know because I feel it. 223 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:12,900 Simon Hall: And I guess everybody who's listening or watching will know 224 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:15,870 Simon Hall: the imposter syndrome, that awful feeling we're not up to 225 00:12:15,870 --> 00:12:18,780 Simon Hall: what the world expects of us. So question for you, 226 00:12:19,020 --> 00:12:21,630 Simon Hall: would you like to know how to beat the imposter syndrome? 227 00:12:21,929 --> 00:12:22,050 Krutika Adatia: Oh yes, I would love to. 228 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:25,979 Simon Hall: Do you know what? I thought you might. So here's two versions of 229 00:12:25,980 --> 00:12:29,579 Simon Hall: how to beat the imposter syndrome. Version one. Don't worry 230 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:33,720 Simon Hall: about the imposter syndrome, everyone gets it. Okay? Right. Has 231 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,940 Simon Hall: that made a deep emotional connection with you and will 232 00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:37,020 Simon Hall: you always remember that? 233 00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:38,760 Krutika Adatia: Not particularly. 234 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,260 Simon Hall: Well, you disappoint me. 235 00:12:40,260 --> 00:12:40,471 Krutika Adatia: Oh, sorry. 236 00:12:40,471 --> 00:12:44,579 Simon Hall: Okay. It was a trick question. How about a story then instead about 237 00:12:44,580 --> 00:12:47,670 Simon Hall: how to beat the imposter syndrome? So brief story. One 238 00:12:47,670 --> 00:12:48,870 Simon Hall: of the things I do when I have a few 239 00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:51,630 Simon Hall: spare minutes is I go and visit state schools like 240 00:12:51,630 --> 00:12:53,790 Simon Hall: the one I went to and talk to the students 241 00:12:53,790 --> 00:12:58,170 Simon Hall: there, sixth formers, about how they can aspire to perhaps 242 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,080 Simon Hall: greater goals in life than they had originally considered. And 243 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:02,969 Simon Hall: I've got the authenticity to do this because I went to 244 00:13:02,970 --> 00:13:05,370 Simon Hall: a state school and then I did BBC and Cambridge and all 245 00:13:05,580 --> 00:13:09,120 Simon Hall: that. One of the things I talk about in these 246 00:13:09,210 --> 00:13:13,980 Simon Hall: discussions is the imposter syndrome. And normally, I talk about 247 00:13:13,980 --> 00:13:16,230 Simon Hall: it through the lens of a couple of famous people 248 00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:18,570 Simon Hall: who have suffered with the horrible thing. For example, did 249 00:13:18,570 --> 00:13:22,260 Simon Hall: you know Albert Einstein suffered with? Einstein. Right up to 250 00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:24,420 Simon Hall: his death, he was troubled that he'd never done anything 251 00:13:24,420 --> 00:13:27,329 Simon Hall: worthwhile in his life. Crazy, right? So normally, I would 252 00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:31,020 Simon Hall: talk about Einstein, but on this one day, something happened, 253 00:13:31,050 --> 00:13:33,510 Simon Hall: something really strange. So it was a big event. There 254 00:13:33,510 --> 00:13:36,929 Simon Hall: were about 200 young people, 17, 18 years old in this 255 00:13:36,929 --> 00:13:40,079 Simon Hall: hall. I was at the front on a stage with 256 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:42,030 Simon Hall: a head teacher next to me and there were lots 257 00:13:42,030 --> 00:13:43,710 Simon Hall: of teachers in the audience. So it was a big event and 258 00:13:43,710 --> 00:13:46,230 Simon Hall: it was going fine. I was going through my spiel 259 00:13:46,230 --> 00:13:48,360 Simon Hall: because I've done this a few times before. And it 260 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:50,969 Simon Hall: got to the point when I wanted to talk about 261 00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:54,420 Simon Hall: the imposter syndrome. I was about to start talking about Einstein 262 00:13:54,870 --> 00:13:57,210 Simon Hall: when a little instinct to the back of my mind said, " 263 00:13:57,750 --> 00:14:02,429 Simon Hall: Do something different." And I remember the moment really well because 264 00:14:02,429 --> 00:14:06,420 Simon Hall: about 99.9% of my brain was screaming, " No, don't. This is a 265 00:14:06,510 --> 00:14:08,490 Simon Hall: really big event. There's loads of people here. You can 266 00:14:08,490 --> 00:14:11,640 Simon Hall: make a complete fool of yourself." But I went with 267 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,420 Simon Hall: the instinct anyway. So rather than talking about Einstein, I 268 00:14:15,420 --> 00:14:20,010 Simon Hall: paused, I said, " Who here suffers with the imposter syndrome?" 269 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,850 Simon Hall: And there was a silence. Of course, because they're young 270 00:14:23,850 --> 00:14:26,040 Simon Hall: people, they don't want to look uncool in front of 271 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:29,160 Simon Hall: their friends. So I let the silence run, I looked 272 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,740 Simon Hall: at them and they looked at me, and it did 273 00:14:31,740 --> 00:14:35,760 Simon Hall: feel like quite a long time. And then eventually, one wonderful 274 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,630 Simon Hall: young woman near the front, one of the students slowly raised her 275 00:14:39,630 --> 00:14:42,510 Simon Hall: hand, and then next to a young man, another student 276 00:14:42,510 --> 00:14:45,540 Simon Hall: raised his hand. Then a couple more students, then a teacher. 277 00:14:46,290 --> 00:14:48,030 Simon Hall: Then next to me at the front, the head teacher 278 00:14:48,030 --> 00:14:51,690 Simon Hall: raised his hand, more students. I raised my hand. And then 279 00:14:51,690 --> 00:14:54,930 Simon Hall: like a wave around that hall, everybody had their hand 280 00:14:54,930 --> 00:14:57,630 Simon Hall: in the air and it was the most wonderful moment 281 00:14:57,630 --> 00:15:01,125 Simon Hall: of profound human realization because the students were looking at 282 00:15:01,125 --> 00:15:04,290 Simon Hall: each other, " You suffer with imposter syndrome, but I always thought 283 00:15:04,290 --> 00:15:06,930 Simon Hall: you were so cool and together." And look, the head does. 284 00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:09,420 Simon Hall: And Simon, that guy from Cambridge does and just everyone does. 285 00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:12,000 Simon Hall: And there it was in front of us, the truth 286 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,390 Simon Hall: of the imposter syndrome is part of us all. So 287 00:15:15,390 --> 00:15:18,300 Simon Hall: back to the point, what will you remember? My bland 288 00:15:18,300 --> 00:15:19,920 Simon Hall: statement saying, " Don't worry about it. Everyone has it," or 289 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:20,011 Simon Hall: that story. 290 00:15:20,011 --> 00:15:20,161 Krutika Adatia: This story. 291 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:20,820 Simon Hall: That's the power of stories. 292 00:15:20,820 --> 00:15:25,650 Krutika Adatia: That story. Absolutely. And I'm just thinking as you were 293 00:15:25,650 --> 00:15:30,060 Krutika Adatia: talking, the impact of storytelling, perhaps when we're in the 294 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:33,210 Krutika Adatia: work context as well, because obviously our students are aspiring 295 00:15:33,210 --> 00:15:35,880 Krutika Adatia: accountants. They're going to be in the professional environment at 296 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:39,300 Krutika Adatia: some point, potentially trying to convey an important message with 297 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:43,050 Krutika Adatia: numbers. And let's not beat around the bush, sometimes talking 298 00:15:43,050 --> 00:15:47,430 Krutika Adatia: numbers is not the most exciting or riveting conversation. So 299 00:15:47,790 --> 00:15:51,180 Krutika Adatia: the impact of storytelling and actually bringing those numbers to 300 00:15:51,180 --> 00:15:53,730 Krutika Adatia: life could be quite powerful as well, right? 301 00:15:54,150 --> 00:15:56,850 Simon Hall: Absolutely. I always say if you've got something important, you 302 00:15:56,850 --> 00:15:59,280 Simon Hall: want to get across a message you need to land 303 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,100 Simon Hall: with an audience to be understood and acted upon, put 304 00:16:02,100 --> 00:16:04,590 Simon Hall: it in the form of a story because facts fade, 305 00:16:04,950 --> 00:16:09,870 Simon Hall: but stories stick. Now you've mentioned figures and data. Say 306 00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:12,630 Simon Hall: that's difficult, and I appreciate it can be, but some 307 00:16:12,660 --> 00:16:16,860 Simon Hall: of the most iconic examples of storytelling, which have actually 308 00:16:16,860 --> 00:16:22,230 Simon Hall: saved millions of lives, are storytelling with figures, data storytelling 309 00:16:22,380 --> 00:16:25,200 Simon Hall: or data visualization. I'll take you back to the middle 310 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,560 Simon Hall: of the 19th century, Florence Nightingale, who is an absolute 311 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,750 Simon Hall: hero of mine. She's widely regarded, respected for all she 312 00:16:33,750 --> 00:16:36,810 Simon Hall: did, but what's not often appreciated about her was her 313 00:16:36,810 --> 00:16:40,950 Simon Hall: visionary way of using data. In the Crimean War, she 314 00:16:40,950 --> 00:16:44,700 Simon Hall: observed in our hospitals that many more soldiers were dying 315 00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:48,900 Simon Hall: from preventable disease, from infection, rather than as you might 316 00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:51,989 Simon Hall: expect their wounds from battle. She saw this was a 317 00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:54,720 Simon Hall: scandal. She collected the data and she saw it was 318 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,080 Simon Hall: absolutely clear many, many, many more deaths were being caused 319 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,970 Simon Hall: by disease, by infections, but she was smart. She was 320 00:17:02,970 --> 00:17:06,240 Simon Hall: a woman in an age of men. Parliament and government 321 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,970 Simon Hall: was full of men. They were never going to listen 322 00:17:08,970 --> 00:17:12,480 Simon Hall: to a dense report full of statistics from some woman 323 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,340 Simon Hall: out there in the Crimea, you know what the time 324 00:17:14,340 --> 00:17:16,890 Simon Hall: was like. So she thought about what to do, and 325 00:17:16,890 --> 00:17:19,530 Simon Hall: she presented it to them in a simple form in 326 00:17:19,530 --> 00:17:22,530 Simon Hall: a diagram which became celebrated. It's known as the Florence 327 00:17:22,530 --> 00:17:27,389 Simon Hall: Nightingale rose diagram, technically a polar area chart. And because 328 00:17:27,690 --> 00:17:31,109 Simon Hall: if you look it up, you see, wow, in one 329 00:17:31,109 --> 00:17:35,369 Simon Hall: glance, in one second, immediately, what an enormous issue and 330 00:17:35,369 --> 00:17:38,040 Simon Hall: scandal this was in a way that those MPs, those 331 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:42,630 Simon Hall: government ministers could not ignore, and that then saw changes 332 00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:46,109 Simon Hall: in hygiene for hospitals, saving many soldiers' lives, but not 333 00:17:46,109 --> 00:17:48,869 Simon Hall: just that, it spread out from there. And public health 334 00:17:48,869 --> 00:17:52,380 Simon Hall: became far, far better because of her brilliant work and 335 00:17:52,380 --> 00:17:56,640 Simon Hall: her genius in using figures to tell stories. So that 336 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,771 Simon Hall: might be particularly useful for the folks listening to this. 337 00:17:58,771 --> 00:18:02,820 Krutika Adatia: I was going to say that definitely of interest to our listeners. Now I want to circle 338 00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:05,909 Krutika Adatia: back to the story you were telling me about when 339 00:18:05,910 --> 00:18:08,040 Krutika Adatia: you were in that public state school, there were 200 340 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:11,609 Krutika Adatia: people there. That's public speaking. Now, I guess for what 341 00:18:11,609 --> 00:18:15,210 Krutika Adatia: you do, that might come easy for you potentially. 342 00:18:17,010 --> 00:18:17,070 Simon Hall: No. 343 00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:19,770 Krutika Adatia: I guess public speaking is just one of those things. 344 00:18:19,770 --> 00:18:21,960 Krutika Adatia: I mean, I certainly get nervous about it. I think 345 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:24,780 Krutika Adatia: back to being the maid of honor for my cousin's 346 00:18:24,780 --> 00:18:28,350 Krutika Adatia: wedding and having to deliver a speech to an audience 347 00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:33,750 Krutika Adatia: of 200 plus, it's a big fat Indian wedding, and really feeling dead 348 00:18:33,750 --> 00:18:37,500 Krutika Adatia: nervous about it. So what is it about public speaking 349 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:40,470 Krutika Adatia: that is so difficult and makes it so hard? 350 00:18:40,590 --> 00:18:43,441 Simon Hall: Well, you've experienced it, you feel naked in front of everybody. 351 00:18:43,441 --> 00:18:43,800 Krutika Adatia: Yes. 352 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,010 Simon Hall: I mean, you literally feel naked because everybody's looking at 353 00:18:47,010 --> 00:18:49,500 Simon Hall: you, and all the logic in the world saying, " Well, 354 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:51,419 Simon Hall: they're on my side because it's a wedding and it's 355 00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:53,909 Simon Hall: a celebration. They want to enjoy this. They want to 356 00:18:53,910 --> 00:18:57,030 Simon Hall: laugh. They're with me. We're having fun. We're all engaged 357 00:18:57,030 --> 00:18:59,609 Simon Hall: in this lovely moment," none of that makes a difference, 358 00:18:59,609 --> 00:19:02,760 Simon Hall: is it, because they're all looking at you. So everybody, 359 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,520 Simon Hall: I think, I've never actually met anybody who was honest 360 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,040 Simon Hall: with me who said they didn't get nervous about public 361 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,280 Simon Hall: speaking, but I would say that's a good thing because 362 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,609 Simon Hall: the nerves tell you this is a big moment. So 363 00:19:14,609 --> 00:19:17,040 Simon Hall: the nerves are getting the adrenaline and the energy through 364 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,740 Simon Hall: you, getting you ready to perform. The trick with nerves 365 00:19:19,740 --> 00:19:21,810 Simon Hall: is to harness them. Say, " Hello, nerves. I know you're 366 00:19:21,810 --> 00:19:26,580 Simon Hall: coming along. Let's use you to perform really, really well. 367 00:19:26,580 --> 00:19:29,310 Simon Hall: You've got to manage the nerves." And for me, the 368 00:19:29,310 --> 00:19:33,420 Simon Hall: best way of managing the nerves is to slow down 369 00:19:33,540 --> 00:19:36,630 Simon Hall: your performance. Nerves make you rush, don't they? They want 370 00:19:36,630 --> 00:19:38,070 Simon Hall: to get away from this awful moment. 371 00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:39,031 Krutika Adatia: You just want to get through it, get through it quickly, yeah. 372 00:19:39,031 --> 00:19:45,389 Simon Hall: But no, no. Slow down. Take pauses. The audience will have time 373 00:19:45,390 --> 00:19:48,840 Simon Hall: to take in what you're saying, better experience for them. 374 00:19:48,869 --> 00:19:52,320 Simon Hall: You have time to breathe. Better for your voice, but 375 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,820 Simon Hall: critically, better for your nerves. So although it's, again, counterintuitive, 376 00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:01,980 Simon Hall: harness the nerves. Use the energy, slow down, perform. 377 00:20:02,730 --> 00:20:05,790 Krutika Adatia: It's that shift in perspective as well, isn't it? And 378 00:20:05,790 --> 00:20:08,430 Krutika Adatia: often, that can be the challenge because again, I'm thinking 379 00:20:08,430 --> 00:20:12,660 Krutika Adatia: about our students who are potentially, again, in the workplace, 380 00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:15,540 Krutika Adatia: maybe they're working, they're studying simultaneously, maybe they're having to 381 00:20:15,540 --> 00:20:19,889 Krutika Adatia: give a presentation and just feeling overwhelmed with the thought 382 00:20:19,890 --> 00:20:24,810 Krutika Adatia: of presenting a slide deck to seniors. So yeah, that 383 00:20:24,810 --> 00:20:27,420 Krutika Adatia: shift in perspective and the calm breathing. 384 00:20:27,510 --> 00:20:31,020 Simon Hall: Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously I'm available for consultants. The 385 00:20:31,020 --> 00:20:33,780 Simon Hall: serious point is when you're presenting, come back to those 386 00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:39,119 Simon Hall: four foundations, clarity. What is my story? Simplicity, can everyone 387 00:20:39,119 --> 00:20:42,180 Simon Hall: understand it? Brevity, don't go on and on. Keep it 388 00:20:42,330 --> 00:20:47,280 Simon Hall: short. And then authenticity. This means something to you, show 389 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,670 Simon Hall: it. Make that connection, and you won't go far wrong 390 00:20:50,670 --> 00:20:51,179 Simon Hall: with those. 391 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:56,340 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. So Simon, is there a difference in approach when we have 392 00:20:56,340 --> 00:20:58,679 Krutika Adatia: written versus oral communication? 393 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,889 Simon Hall: Yeah, absolutely. The way to think about it is the 394 00:21:01,890 --> 00:21:05,100 Simon Hall: difference between seeing a news report on the TV and 395 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,590 Simon Hall: having a newspaper either physically in front of you or 396 00:21:07,590 --> 00:21:10,709 Simon Hall: online. The news report on the TV is there and 397 00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:13,680 Simon Hall: gone, so they have to be really simple, make their 398 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,130 Simon Hall: key point clear, straightforward. It's got to be there for 399 00:21:17,130 --> 00:21:20,790 Simon Hall: you really obviously. When you're reading, it can be a 400 00:21:20,790 --> 00:21:22,859 Simon Hall: little bit more complicated because you can look at it and 401 00:21:22,859 --> 00:21:26,730 Simon Hall: you think, " Oh, go back here, read again. Yeah." So 402 00:21:26,730 --> 00:21:29,760 Simon Hall: very, very simple when you're giving a presentation oral. A 403 00:21:30,330 --> 00:21:33,959 Simon Hall: bit more information, bit more depth when you're doing it 404 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,340 Simon Hall: in a written format, but essentially, fundamentally, no, we still 405 00:21:38,340 --> 00:21:43,170 Simon Hall: come back to clarity, simplicity, brevity, authenticity. They should run 406 00:21:43,170 --> 00:21:46,290 Simon Hall: through any communication, whether it's social media, whether it's a 407 00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:50,040 Simon Hall: big report, whether it's a book, whatever it is. But 408 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,780 Simon Hall: when you have a written form, you have a little 409 00:21:51,780 --> 00:21:53,640 Simon Hall: bit more time. So you can go into more depth, 410 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,980 Simon Hall: more think, more feel that way. 411 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,650 Krutika Adatia: Yeah, and I guess one for our students, look out 412 00:21:58,650 --> 00:22:02,340 Krutika Adatia: for the exam verb in the question because sometimes questions, 413 00:22:02,340 --> 00:22:07,290 Krutika Adatia: Simon, will say describe. Some will say evaluate, for example, 414 00:22:07,290 --> 00:22:10,500 Krutika Adatia: or compare and contrast. So it's just, I guess the 415 00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:12,930 Krutika Adatia: amount a student needs to write in the exam and 416 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,930 Krutika Adatia: the brevity of it will also be dictated by the exam 417 00:22:15,930 --> 00:22:18,240 Krutika Adatia: word in the actual question itself. Yeah. 418 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:19,409 Simon Hall: You got to read the room, haven't you? 419 00:22:19,410 --> 00:22:19,411 Krutika Adatia: Yes. 420 00:22:19,411 --> 00:22:21,419 Simon Hall: If it says expand. 421 00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:21,810 Krutika Adatia: Yes. 422 00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:24,780 Simon Hall: If it says yes or no, multiple choice questions are 423 00:22:24,780 --> 00:22:28,290 Simon Hall: multiple choice. A question which says compare and contrast, well, 424 00:22:28,290 --> 00:22:29,700 Simon Hall: you know you're writing more of an essay. 425 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:36,750 Krutika Adatia: So our students sometimes have to convey potentially difficult messaging 426 00:22:36,750 --> 00:22:38,820 Krutika Adatia: to employers, and I mean that in the context of 427 00:22:38,820 --> 00:22:41,730 Krutika Adatia: let's say a student has failed an exam, letting an 428 00:22:41,730 --> 00:22:45,210 Krutika Adatia: employer know that they've failed an exam, or maybe when 429 00:22:45,210 --> 00:22:47,700 Krutika Adatia: they're in the workplace having to have a challenging or 430 00:22:47,700 --> 00:22:50,070 Krutika Adatia: a difficult conversation, and that can be hard. And I 431 00:22:50,070 --> 00:22:53,340 Krutika Adatia: think communication skills will be very important there in the 432 00:22:53,340 --> 00:22:58,230 Krutika Adatia: words that you use. Any advice or words of wisdom in managing 433 00:22:58,230 --> 00:22:59,609 Krutika Adatia: those situations, Simon? 434 00:22:59,790 --> 00:23:03,480 Simon Hall: Well, just like public speaking, everybody feels uncomfortable about those 435 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,760 Simon Hall: situations because it's easy to say to someone, " Wow, you did 436 00:23:06,030 --> 00:23:08,700 Simon Hall: great and we have a huddle." It's much harder to say, " 437 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:12,210 Simon Hall: No, this wasn't good enough. I'm not acceptable or I 438 00:23:12,210 --> 00:23:15,660 Simon Hall: failed this or that." And it's hard, but honesty is 439 00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:18,780 Simon Hall: the best way. So first of all, honesty, be honest 440 00:23:18,780 --> 00:23:22,020 Simon Hall: about it. But the thing which I've noticed makes the 441 00:23:22,020 --> 00:23:25,050 Simon Hall: biggest difference when you are dealing with something difficult is 442 00:23:25,050 --> 00:23:28,709 Simon Hall: to own the situation. People detest it when you say, "Well, 443 00:23:28,830 --> 00:23:30,960 Simon Hall: it wasn't my fault. The dog get my homework." Or, " 444 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,820 Simon Hall: It was late," or, " It was raining," or, " I had 445 00:23:32,820 --> 00:23:36,119 Simon Hall: a cold," or whatever. Own it. Say, " I didn't get this 446 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,090 Simon Hall: right. We didn't get this right. Why didn't we get 447 00:23:39,090 --> 00:23:40,980 Simon Hall: this right? We're going to own it and we're going 448 00:23:40,980 --> 00:23:45,240 Simon Hall: to make it better." So I would say honesty, ownership, 449 00:23:45,630 --> 00:23:48,659 Simon Hall: but then action as well. " I'm going to be honest, I've got 450 00:23:48,810 --> 00:23:51,210 Simon Hall: this wrong. I'm going to own it, it's my issue. 451 00:23:51,750 --> 00:23:54,720 Simon Hall: Because it's my issue, action is I'm now going to 452 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,419 Simon Hall: deal with it. I'm going to take the exam again and I'm going to 453 00:23:57,420 --> 00:23:59,520 Simon Hall: get it right. And I'm really sorry I've wasted your 454 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,070 Simon Hall: time and money, but this is so important. I'm going 455 00:24:02,070 --> 00:24:04,439 Simon Hall: to get it right." I made a mistake at work, 456 00:24:04,890 --> 00:24:06,480 Simon Hall: you're going to learn from it, we're going to not 457 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,359 Simon Hall: going to make it again. So own it, be honest 458 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:13,080 Simon Hall: about it, but then think, I don't lose here. I 459 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,629 Simon Hall: lose if I give up if I don't go back. 460 00:24:15,810 --> 00:24:19,619 Simon Hall: See? And the great saying is you're not beaten if you're 461 00:24:19,619 --> 00:24:21,990 Simon Hall: defeated, you're beaten if you give up. 462 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,990 Krutika Adatia: Love that, and I love that framework that you've provided. It's honesty, ownership, and 463 00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:31,500 Krutika Adatia: action. And actually, one of the key ethical principles that 464 00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:35,430 Krutika Adatia: accountants have to adhere to is integrity, and it's quite 465 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:38,010 Krutika Adatia: nice that this framework almost feeds into that in some 466 00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:42,149 Krutika Adatia: respect, honesty, and just owning it. One more thing that 467 00:24:42,150 --> 00:24:45,119 Krutika Adatia: I do want to touch on is we think about 468 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,260 Krutika Adatia: the age that we're in where you've got AI technologies. 469 00:24:49,410 --> 00:24:52,350 Krutika Adatia: They're all the rage now. I mean, I use generative 470 00:24:52,380 --> 00:24:56,399 Krutika Adatia: AI technologies, who doesn't? I guess what I'm thinking here 471 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:02,850 Krutika Adatia: is our students, our listeners are potentially leveraging these technology 472 00:25:02,850 --> 00:25:05,730 Krutika Adatia: tools. I think about my nieces and nephews who are 473 00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:10,350 Krutika Adatia: using it to draft emails, for example. They're outsourcing a 474 00:25:10,350 --> 00:25:12,810 Krutika Adatia: bit of that communication. And I just wanted to get 475 00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:16,890 Krutika Adatia: your view and take on what are these tools and 476 00:25:16,890 --> 00:25:22,170 Krutika Adatia: technologies doing for communication? What are the opportunities, potential risks 477 00:25:22,170 --> 00:25:23,310 Krutika Adatia: that you foresee? 478 00:25:24,060 --> 00:25:26,909 Simon Hall: There's so much in there, and I'm often asked about AI. The 479 00:25:26,910 --> 00:25:30,060 Simon Hall: first thing I think is it's an opportunity. Now, who 480 00:25:30,060 --> 00:25:32,310 Simon Hall: is not going to use something which can be so 481 00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:34,410 Simon Hall: helpful? So I'm not against it in the slightest, but 482 00:25:34,410 --> 00:25:37,770 Simon Hall: I think you have to use it thoughtfully and strategically 483 00:25:37,859 --> 00:25:41,189 Simon Hall: and smartly. So the first thing I say about AI 484 00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:44,940 Simon Hall: is it is not the master. You are the master. 485 00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:47,490 Simon Hall: So my first principle with AI is do not start 486 00:25:47,490 --> 00:25:50,070 Simon Hall: with it. Do not just think, "I've got to write this thing. 487 00:25:50,070 --> 00:25:52,500 Simon Hall: I'll chuck it into AI and then send that out." 488 00:25:52,890 --> 00:25:57,600 Simon Hall: Start with your brain, your mind, your creativity. Remember, AI 489 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,840 Simon Hall: is programmed, first of all, to be fairly bland and 490 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,490 Simon Hall: inoffensive. The interesting stuff in communication comes at the edge 491 00:26:05,910 --> 00:26:08,970 Simon Hall: when you're really thinking, really feeling, going back to the 492 00:26:08,970 --> 00:26:12,330 Simon Hall: authenticity we talked about earlier on. So I would never 493 00:26:12,330 --> 00:26:14,609 Simon Hall: use it to start with. If I have a communication 494 00:26:14,609 --> 00:26:17,580 Simon Hall: challenge, whether it's a book, a lecture course, whatever, I 495 00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:20,820 Simon Hall: will start by thinking, when I came here today to 496 00:26:20,820 --> 00:26:23,940 Simon Hall: talk to you, I didn't plug it into Copilot or 497 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:27,990 Simon Hall: ChatGPT and say, " What should I say?" I thought, " What 498 00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:30,060 Simon Hall: will I say? And what am I going to say 499 00:26:30,060 --> 00:26:33,060 Simon Hall: that's me that really answers these questions for you and 500 00:26:33,060 --> 00:26:35,760 Simon Hall: for the people who are listening?" And after that, I thought, " 501 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,160 Simon Hall: Fine," and I didn't need any AI because essentially I've just 502 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,130 Simon Hall: bored you with my stories. So don't start with it. 503 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,680 Simon Hall: Don't be a slave to it. So what it turns 504 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,139 Simon Hall: out for you is just a starting point. Look at 505 00:26:46,140 --> 00:26:48,600 Simon Hall: it, do I like that? Yeah, don't really like that. 506 00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:52,080 Simon Hall: Is that helpful? Is that not helpful? And the third 507 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,470 Simon Hall: stage is cross- reference and check. You've got all these 508 00:26:55,470 --> 00:26:58,500 Simon Hall: various AIs. You've got your ChatGPT, you've got your Copilot, 509 00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:02,280 Simon Hall: you've got your Claude, you've got everything. Ask the same question 510 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,500 Simon Hall: to two or three of them, see the answers that 511 00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,439 Simon Hall: you're getting, what's the same, what's different, and then use 512 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,950 Simon Hall: your brain to decide, " This is the important stuff. This 513 00:27:10,950 --> 00:27:12,810 Simon Hall: is the kind of structure I might use. These are 514 00:27:12,810 --> 00:27:14,970 Simon Hall: the things I want to say, but now I'm going 515 00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:17,700 Simon Hall: to say it." And I sound like such a boring 516 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:20,550 Simon Hall: old guy by saying, " There is no substitute for doing 517 00:27:20,550 --> 00:27:22,590 Simon Hall: the work," but you know what? There is no substitute 518 00:27:22,590 --> 00:27:23,430 Simon Hall: for doing the work. 519 00:27:23,910 --> 00:27:27,960 Krutika Adatia: Yeah. Really well said. And that really touches back on almost the 520 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:31,320 Krutika Adatia: four things that make for good communication, that authenticity piece, 521 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,109 Krutika Adatia: because if you do just outsource it to Claude or ChatGPT, 522 00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:37,560 Krutika Adatia: they'll have the same sort of tone of voice and 523 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,920 Krutika Adatia: then it becomes pretty obvious when it's written by AI. 524 00:27:41,220 --> 00:27:44,760 Krutika Adatia: And I'm noticing that on social media feeds, I can 525 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:49,439 Krutika Adatia: now spot instances where things are generated by AI models. 526 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,720 Simon Hall: And there's your opportunity because if everybody else is using it and looking bland, you use 527 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:58,350 Simon Hall: your brain and look distinctive. And there's one small story 528 00:27:58,350 --> 00:28:01,469 Simon Hall: about this I'll share. So I sometimes have learners or 529 00:28:01,470 --> 00:28:04,409 Simon Hall: students who have clearly used AI and I put on 530 00:28:04,410 --> 00:28:07,949 Simon Hall: the sort of, " Was this written by you?" And they 531 00:28:07,950 --> 00:28:09,990 Simon Hall: sort of squirm and they don't really want to fib. " 532 00:28:10,650 --> 00:28:13,830 Simon Hall: Not entirely." I said, " How much of it was written 533 00:28:13,830 --> 00:28:20,040 Simon Hall: by you?" " Not a lot." I said, " Was this AI?" "Yeah." And 534 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,250 Simon Hall: then they'll ask, " How could you tell?" I said, " Well, 535 00:28:23,250 --> 00:28:26,730 Simon Hall: the reason I could tell is like this. Your answer 536 00:28:26,730 --> 00:28:32,100 Simon Hall: was bland, boring, frankly, lacking in any sparkle. So the 537 00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:34,920 Simon Hall: question I will ask you, student, is, do you consider 538 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,580 Simon Hall: yourself a bland, boring, and lacking in sparkle type person?" 539 00:28:38,970 --> 00:28:42,630 Simon Hall: And unsurprisingly, the answer comes back, " No." " So don't use 540 00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:44,459 Simon Hall: AI anymore. Now clear off and do it properly." 541 00:28:45,540 --> 00:28:49,560 Krutika Adatia: Brilliant, love that. So there's opportunities, but there are also things 542 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,950 Krutika Adatia: that our students and listeners should be mindful of. Now, 543 00:28:53,010 --> 00:28:56,250 Krutika Adatia: you've said some amazing bits of advice, golden nuggets through 544 00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:58,890 Krutika Adatia: this conversation and particularly love some of the frameworks you've 545 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,460 Krutika Adatia: provided. But if you were to summarize three tips for 546 00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:05,580 Krutika Adatia: improving communication skills, Simon, what would you say they are? 547 00:29:05,580 --> 00:29:07,710 Simon Hall: I'm going to take you right back. And if you 548 00:29:07,710 --> 00:29:09,960 Simon Hall: don't mind, because you've been very kind, I'll make it 549 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,040 Simon Hall: four. Back to what we said, clarity. Clarity of what 550 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,100 Simon Hall: you're saying. Simplicity, make sure everyone can understand. It's a 551 00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,730 Simon Hall: great trap to use long words or jargon words. Keep 552 00:29:20,730 --> 00:29:24,330 Simon Hall: it simple. Simple is not stupid, simple is smart. Brevity, 553 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,500 Simon Hall: less is more, and authenticity. Be yourself because that's the 554 00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:30,720 Simon Hall: sparkle with the substance. That's what makes the connection. 555 00:29:31,410 --> 00:29:33,330 Krutika Adatia: Brilliant. Thank you so much, Simon. 556 00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:34,020 Simon Hall: Pleasure. 557 00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:38,310 Krutika Adatia: That's it from this episode of On Your Marks. Thank 558 00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:42,150 Krutika Adatia: you, Simon, for chatting with me today. For more information 559 00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:47,760 Krutika Adatia: about ACCA exams, you can go to www. accaglobal. com/ 560 00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:51,810 Krutika Adatia: exams. And to watch the video version of this podcast, 561 00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:54,630 Krutika Adatia: check out the link in the show notes. See you 562 00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:58,560 Krutika Adatia: next time, I'm Krutika Adatia, and this has been On Your 563 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,530 Krutika Adatia: Marks. On Your Marks is a Fresh Air Production for 564 00:30:01,530 --> 00:30:05,760 Krutika Adatia: ACCA. Its producers are Eva Higginbotham, Annie Day, and Finlay 565 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,010 Krutika Adatia: MacRae, and it's edited by Helen Quigley.