WEBVTT - What You Need to Know About Divorce, Money and Starting Again 0:00:00.270 --> 0:00:03.060 This series is brought to you by LNG, helping you 0:00:03.060 --> 0:00:04.980 build a future that's a little bit richer. 0:00:06.870 --> 0:00:09.600 Hello, I'm Iona Bain, and welcome to A Little Bit 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:12.780 Richer, brought to you by legal in general. January is a 0:00:12.780 --> 0:00:15.360 month which does see an increase in people looking to 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.750 divorce. Ending a marriage and facing the financial reality of 0:00:18.750 --> 0:00:22.320 a recent separation is a difficult process. So, today we 0:00:22.320 --> 0:00:24.420 want to reassure you that you don't have to have 0:00:24.420 --> 0:00:28.560 everything figured out at once. Divorce isn't linear. It's emotional, 0:00:28.590 --> 0:00:31.320 it's messy, and it can be expensive, but we're going 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:34.530 to share practical steps that you can take to protect 0:00:34.530 --> 0:00:37.350 your future. Joining me today is friend of the show, 0:00:37.380 --> 0:00:40.710 Jenny Hazan, who leads a team at LNG, focused on 0:00:40.710 --> 0:00:44.760 supporting people to build long- term financial wellbeing. Jenny went 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.700 through a divorce herself a few years ago and understands 0:00:47.909 --> 0:00:51.810 firsthand the emotional and financial complexities that come with it. 0:00:52.140 --> 0:00:55.920 So, whether you're currently navigating a breakup, supporting a friend 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.100 through one, or simply want to understand what your rights 0:00:59.130 --> 0:01:02.070 and options are, we've got buckets of knowledge for you 0:01:02.070 --> 0:01:03.750 today. Hello, Jenny. 0:01:03.780 --> 0:01:04.050 Hi. 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.920 Before we dive into the subject, can you share your 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:09.000 story with us? 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.110 Yeah, absolutely. So, I actually went through my own divorce 0:01:13.170 --> 0:01:17.370 about four years ago now, luckily, relatively amicably. But I 0:01:17.370 --> 0:01:20.819 think any point where you go from a we to 0:01:20.819 --> 0:01:24.509 a me is a massive life shift. And so, for 0:01:24.510 --> 0:01:27.300 me, looking back, actually there's so many things that I 0:01:27.300 --> 0:01:30.450 wish I had known at the time, areas that I 0:01:30.450 --> 0:01:33.810 had to scrabble around for information that I wish was 0:01:33.810 --> 0:01:36.569 clearer. And then from a day- to- day perspective, what 0:01:36.569 --> 0:01:39.300 I do for work, I really look at how people 0:01:39.300 --> 0:01:41.640 think and feel when it comes to money and their 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.729 future. So, that gives me a little bit more insight, 0:01:44.730 --> 0:01:47.009 I guess, into what we're thinking and feeling when big 0:01:47.010 --> 0:01:50.370 changes happen and when we're trying to re- look at 0:01:50.490 --> 0:01:53.430 our finances. So, I'm hoping I can bring together a 0:01:53.430 --> 0:01:57.120 little bit of that personal experience and also that insight 0:01:57.150 --> 0:02:00.360 through the work that I do to help anyone who 0:02:00.360 --> 0:02:05.610 is potentially looking at a divorce right now, separating, even 0:02:05.610 --> 0:02:08.550 a big breakup actually, because I think it's just as 0:02:08.550 --> 0:02:12.630 relevant in that situation. And then actually anyone who's still 0:02:12.630 --> 0:02:16.230 in a loving partnership or looking for a partner and 0:02:16.230 --> 0:02:18.660 really wants to think about the sorts of conversations that 0:02:18.660 --> 0:02:21.330 we should be having about money no matter what. 0:02:21.419 --> 0:02:23.669 Mm- hmm. Well, I'm sure your insight is going to 0:02:23.669 --> 0:02:28.350 be incredibly helpful here. And you've given us a glimpse 0:02:28.350 --> 0:02:33.720 into how emotionally and financially difficult divorce can be. What 0:02:33.810 --> 0:02:38.190 areas of people's lives does divorce have the greatest impact, 0:02:38.190 --> 0:02:38.880 do you think? 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.139 Well, I always say that divorce is actually two breakups. 0:02:43.169 --> 0:02:47.820 So, the first is with the person, and the second 0:02:47.850 --> 0:02:50.250 is a breakup really with the future that you were 0:02:50.250 --> 0:02:54.510 creating together. So, the emotional bit really hits first. It's 0:02:54.510 --> 0:02:57.810 the change in your normal day- to- day life. It's 0:02:57.870 --> 0:03:01.500 the change in what you expected your future to look 0:03:01.500 --> 0:03:05.400 like. It's even the mental load of having to make 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.639 big decisions on your own, and particularly at a time 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.310 when you are having to make some really big decisions. 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:15.060 But for me, what was really, really hard was actually 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.760 I met my ex- partner when I was 18 years 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:20.910 old. And so, then when we separated, I had to 0:03:21.270 --> 0:03:23.940 learn how to trust myself in a new way that 0:03:23.940 --> 0:03:27.750 I hadn't done before. So, emotionally, it takes a big 0:03:27.750 --> 0:03:30.990 toll, but it can also feel weirdly quite exciting as 0:03:30.990 --> 0:03:35.190 well, fresh chapter. From a financial perspective, I think one 0:03:35.190 --> 0:03:39.720 of the biggest shocks is really around housing costs and 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.980 bills. So, your rent, your mortgage, your utilities, and this 0:03:43.980 --> 0:03:47.460 is something that we sometimes call the singles tax. And 0:03:47.460 --> 0:03:49.710 of course that is not a real tax, but it 0:03:49.710 --> 0:03:54.420 feels like one when suddenly overnight your costs can even 0:03:54.450 --> 0:03:58.320 double sometimes. And that's before you even think about the 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.200 cost of the divorce itself. So, even if you're on 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:05.340 good terms, if it's amicable, there are costs to divorce. 0:04:05.460 --> 0:04:08.190 And if you can't agree on how to split your 0:04:08.190 --> 0:04:12.660 money, your assets, et cetera, those costs can increase considerably 0:04:12.690 --> 0:04:13.530 quite quickly. 0:04:13.950 --> 0:04:16.469 Do you have any advice for someone who might be 0:04:16.470 --> 0:04:19.230 in that situation right now and they're wondering, how do 0:04:19.230 --> 0:04:20.670 I do this on my own? 0:04:20.910 --> 0:04:22.770 Yeah. Well, the first thing is to give yourself a 0:04:22.770 --> 0:04:26.250 little bit of grace. And the second is to know 0:04:26.250 --> 0:04:29.940 that you can start small. So, three things that I 0:04:29.940 --> 0:04:33.660 would say that everyone can start is firstly, know your 0:04:33.660 --> 0:04:37.110 numbers. So, what's going in, what's going out. It doesn't 0:04:37.110 --> 0:04:40.560 have to be some sort of epic Excel wizardry, but 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:45.029 just understanding your money. The second thing is to build 0:04:45.029 --> 0:04:48.150 a small buffer. So, we're talking 10 pounds a week, 0:04:48.150 --> 0:04:51.359 five pounds a week even, something that gives you a 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:56.190 habit really in terms of rebuilding up that emergency savings. 0:04:56.250 --> 0:05:00.089 And to be honest, it's less about the actual figure. 0:05:00.330 --> 0:05:03.570 It's more about giving yourself a feeling of, " You know 0:05:03.570 --> 0:05:04.770 what? I've got this." 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:05.160 Yeah. 0:05:05.370 --> 0:05:07.380 And then the third thing, which I think is really 0:05:07.380 --> 0:05:12.060 important and often overlooked is actually realigning how you spend 0:05:12.060 --> 0:05:14.760 with the life you have now, not the life you 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.820 had before. And I think it's important to say that 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.960 we often talk about divorce and it feels very depressing, 0:05:22.200 --> 0:05:25.830 but I also think it opens a new chapter for 0:05:25.830 --> 0:05:29.640 people and it gives you the ability to choose for 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.870 yourself without actually having to make some of those compromises 0:05:33.870 --> 0:05:35.730 about what you want your life to look like. So, 0:05:35.790 --> 0:05:37.320 it is important to consider that. 0:05:37.410 --> 0:05:40.740 Yes. I'm glad that we're focusing as much on how 0:05:40.740 --> 0:05:42.570 we can make the most of life after divorce- 0:05:42.571 --> 0:05:42.572 Absolutely. 0:05:42.572 --> 0:05:45.750 ... as much as we're talking about the financial challenges 0:05:45.750 --> 0:05:50.159 that come about. Pensions are often mentioned as a forgotten 0:05:50.160 --> 0:05:54.390 asset during divorce. Why is that? And what do people need 0:05:54.390 --> 0:05:55.140 to be aware of? 0:05:55.650 --> 0:05:58.860 Well, honestly, when you're going through a divorce or even 0:05:58.860 --> 0:06:01.739 a big breakup, no one is sat there thinking, " I 0:06:01.740 --> 0:06:04.020 wonder what my pension will be when I'm 60 years 0:06:04.020 --> 0:06:06.330 old. Will that help me live the life that I 0:06:06.330 --> 0:06:09.240 want to have?" And what's really important here is the 0:06:09.390 --> 0:06:13.710 pension is often the second- biggest asset that you have, 0:06:13.770 --> 0:06:17.219 or you have collectively between you and your partner. And it 0:06:17.220 --> 0:06:21.120 is often forgotten because it seems like it's very much 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.240 far in the distance. I don't need to think about 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.190 all these complex things right now. I'm just trying to 0:06:26.190 --> 0:06:29.430 deal with your emotional load and maybe some of the more day- to- 0:06:29.430 --> 0:06:35.010 day visible financial needs, but the pension should be included 0:06:35.070 --> 0:06:39.299 as part of the discussion around your joint finances. I 0:06:39.300 --> 0:06:43.110 think often people look at the number that is today 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.599 and they don't actually think about how that pension might 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:49.320 grow over time. And so, it's really important just to 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.470 start off with, do you actually know what each other's 0:06:52.620 --> 0:06:56.730 pension assets look like and are you including them in 0:06:56.730 --> 0:06:59.760 the discussion? And all of this is really about setting 0:07:00.029 --> 0:07:03.089 a fair basis for how you are going to divide 0:07:03.089 --> 0:07:07.410 those assets, which is particularly important for women who often 0:07:07.650 --> 0:07:11.130 end up having a pension gap with their male counterparts. 0:07:11.460 --> 0:07:14.670 And is that because that's not something that women always 0:07:14.670 --> 0:07:17.520 realize is going to turn into a problem further down 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:17.940 the line? 0:07:18.060 --> 0:07:21.300 So, there's a number of reasons. And the first one 0:07:21.300 --> 0:07:26.010 really is that often on average, we see women tend 0:07:26.010 --> 0:07:30.000 to take more career breaks or working part- time, often 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:35.370 aligned with childcare or even caring responsibilities in general. Often, 0:07:35.370 --> 0:07:39.510 women are earning less. So, they're in lower paid roles. 0:07:39.510 --> 0:07:43.080 They hold less senior positions. So, their contributions in the 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:47.280 first place were lower and over time that can compound 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:51.690 quite considerably to be a big drop in comparison to 0:07:51.870 --> 0:07:56.520 a male counterpart is that consistency of paying into your 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:01.260 pension is a critical element or were they thinking that 0:08:01.260 --> 0:08:04.200 they might be able to share in their partner's pension? 0:08:04.350 --> 0:08:07.860 Well, yes, because ultimately you're building a partnership and you're 0:08:07.860 --> 0:08:11.190 building a family perhaps. And so, you are looking at 0:08:11.190 --> 0:08:14.130 joint assets. And that is why it's so important that 0:08:14.130 --> 0:08:17.130 when we talk about divorce, that again, we're looking at 0:08:17.130 --> 0:08:19.740 all of these assets and making sure that we are 0:08:19.740 --> 0:08:23.700 dividing them fairly. One in three, people don't actually even 0:08:23.700 --> 0:08:28.410 review the pension as part of that discussion. One in 0:08:28.410 --> 0:08:32.010 five actively opt out of taking a share in their 0:08:32.010 --> 0:08:37.410 partner's pension. And look, every single circumstance is different, but 0:08:37.410 --> 0:08:40.589 ultimately, if you don't actually even understand what each other's 0:08:40.590 --> 0:08:43.230 got, it's going to make it really, really hard to 0:08:43.230 --> 0:08:46.559 make that fair. And what we often see is actually 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:50.790 later on down the line is when people suddenly realize, 0:08:50.970 --> 0:08:54.270 women especially, that they may have less than they were 0:08:54.270 --> 0:08:58.110 expecting in retirement. That might be because they've looked at 0:08:58.470 --> 0:09:00.660 the assets and said, " You know what? I'll stick with 0:09:00.660 --> 0:09:04.559 the family home, particularly if they've got kids because that 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:08.580 feels safer." And during a divorce, often what you crave 0:09:08.580 --> 0:09:11.790 is security, safety, a baseline, and that can trigger us 0:09:11.790 --> 0:09:15.510 to make decisions that really play into that. And that's 0:09:15.510 --> 0:09:18.480 not wrong, but it can lead to us not really 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.990 realizing the longer term impact of the choices that we're 0:09:21.990 --> 0:09:27.209 making and really having some support, advice, guidance in that 0:09:27.210 --> 0:09:30.270 space is really, really critical to make sure that you 0:09:30.270 --> 0:09:31.620 don't regret it later on. 0:09:31.740 --> 0:09:35.790 Absolutely. And this seems to be a problem with not 0:09:35.790 --> 0:09:39.150 including women enough in the conversation. So, to be clear, 0:09:39.150 --> 0:09:43.200 it's not necessarily your fault if you've not been involved 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:47.010 in your husband's financial planning up to now, maybe you've 0:09:47.010 --> 0:09:49.890 not been asked in, but what you can do is 0:09:49.950 --> 0:09:53.130 at this point now say, " Yeah, let's have that conversation. 0:09:53.220 --> 0:09:55.890 I want to know what we've got and what we 0:09:55.890 --> 0:09:58.380 can do to make it fair." And that's well within 0:09:58.380 --> 0:09:59.280 your rights to do that. 0:09:59.490 --> 0:10:03.059 Yeah, absolutely. That knowing your numbers piece is critical, but 0:10:03.450 --> 0:10:06.600 it's never too late. So, I think sometimes people think, " 0:10:06.630 --> 0:10:09.329 Oh, I haven't done that up until now." And now 0:10:09.330 --> 0:10:12.720 I'm at a point where maybe it is less friendly. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.800 Maybe there is now a lot between you and your ex- 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.740 partner that makes it difficult to have these conversations. And 0:10:19.740 --> 0:10:22.440 I think what we often hear from financial advisors is 0:10:22.710 --> 0:10:27.000 maybe the couple will come to the first session together 0:10:27.059 --> 0:10:30.735 to talk about finances, but in follow- up sessions, actually 0:10:30.735 --> 0:10:34.170 it tends to be more likely one partner. And then 0:10:34.260 --> 0:10:37.920 over time, that means your knowledge starts to shift and go. 0:10:38.010 --> 0:10:41.699 So, you've talked a bit about getting support and advice. 0:10:41.910 --> 0:10:45.030 What kinds of support should people be thinking about at 0:10:45.030 --> 0:10:45.510 this time? 0:10:45.929 --> 0:10:50.250 I think it is a really big time of change and 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.429 no one should have to go through a divorce on 0:10:53.429 --> 0:10:58.080 their own. So, emotional support is really important, be that 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.699 from a friend, a coach, a therapist, someone that can 0:11:02.700 --> 0:11:06.450 just give you the space when it's really noisy. We 0:11:07.050 --> 0:11:10.770 underestimate, I think, how much is just going on for 0:11:10.770 --> 0:11:13.949 us internally that we need an opportunity to take a 0:11:13.950 --> 0:11:17.250 step back, particularly because we will be making very big 0:11:17.250 --> 0:11:22.920 decisions. The second one is around legal support. So, often 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:27.449 people worry, I think about costs of legal fees, et 0:11:27.450 --> 0:11:32.760 cetera, but even having a short introductory conversation with a 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.510 solicitor or even a mediator who can just really help 0:11:36.510 --> 0:11:40.230 you to understand what your rights are and also what 0:11:40.230 --> 0:11:42.960 does a fair settlement look like. And I think that 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.440 brings a lot of peace of mind just knowing because 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.960 the unknown is the bit that often causes us a 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:52.470 lot of internal turmoil really. And then finally, we've been 0:11:52.470 --> 0:11:57.240 talking about financial advice. When you look at getting divorced, 0:11:57.330 --> 0:12:01.890 money can get complex. Pensions and sharing them can get 0:12:01.890 --> 0:12:05.010 complex. And I think this is the area where it's 0:12:05.010 --> 0:12:10.679 really important to have professional advice. Our natural instinct is 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.890 to turn to friends and family, and there is nothing 0:12:13.890 --> 0:12:17.099 wrong with that. In fact, I absolutely loved my friends 0:12:17.100 --> 0:12:19.410 and family for all of the support they gave me, 0:12:19.770 --> 0:12:24.329 but financial advice and really trying to help me understand 0:12:24.630 --> 0:12:28.199 how the finances would be breaking down and what that 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.559 would mean for me today, but also what that would 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.410 mean for my future and how I would then rebuild 0:12:34.410 --> 0:12:38.250 those finances with a professional advisor who are there to 0:12:38.250 --> 0:12:42.000 help you really figure out, okay, today this is a 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:44.820 good choice for me to do X, Y, Z. Am 0:12:44.820 --> 0:12:46.890 I going to have enough in the short term, the 0:12:46.890 --> 0:12:49.679 medium term, the long term, and how do I get 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:53.070 back on track with my goals? And that includes any 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.520 assets or income or savings that you might get as 0:12:56.520 --> 0:12:59.100 part of the divorce, what you're going to do with 0:12:59.100 --> 0:13:01.920 them next to build up that next chapter of life. 0:13:01.980 --> 0:13:05.280 Mm- hmm. And it sounds like having a dispassionate person 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.520 involved in that process is really important because your friends 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.020 and family, they're your cheerleaders. 0:13:10.020 --> 0:13:10.260 Exactly. 0:13:10.260 --> 0:13:11.700 They're always going to stick up for you, which is 0:13:11.700 --> 0:13:15.990 wonderful, but that might sometimes ever so slightly cloud their advice. 0:13:16.020 --> 0:13:16.770 Yes, maybe. 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.040 So, let's talk about a few of the technical legal 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.800 things that can happen when you get a divorce. What 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:27.870 exactly are a financial consent order and clean break order? 0:13:28.050 --> 0:13:31.230 How are they different and why would you consider these 0:13:31.230 --> 0:13:32.670 things when you get divorced? 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:34.979 They sound a little bit scary, those words, don't they? 0:13:34.980 --> 0:13:35.040 They really do. Yeah. 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:39.630 Yeah. So, let's talk through them one by one. So, 0:13:39.630 --> 0:13:45.960 your financial consent order in reality is paperwork that just 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.880 legally and finally confirms what you and your ex- partner have 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:56.040 agreed about what you're doing with money. So, pensions, assets, 0:13:56.250 --> 0:14:01.590 any maintenance payments, anything along those lines. And that's a really 0:14:01.590 --> 0:14:04.320 important part to get clear on how you're going to 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.380 divide assets. And that's about what you're doing right now. 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.790 When we look at a clean break order, that almost 0:14:11.790 --> 0:14:13.950 takes it to the next step. It's like the advanced 0:14:13.950 --> 0:14:17.040 version and can be included as part of the submission 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:20.010 that you make in your financial consent order. But that 0:14:20.010 --> 0:14:22.620 is about saying from the point that you've settled your 0:14:22.620 --> 0:14:27.600 divorce, from that point onwards, we will have no claim 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:32.580 on each other's income, future assets. If you were to 0:14:32.580 --> 0:14:35.640 get a great big inheritance further down the line, I 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.690 won't get any looking on that. And then my favorite 0:14:39.690 --> 0:14:42.420 example, if one of us wins the lottery, we're not 0:14:42.450 --> 0:14:45.150 going to suddenly turn up and say, " Ooh, I would 0:14:45.150 --> 0:14:47.670 like a bit of that, please." And the way I 0:14:47.670 --> 0:14:50.730 can explain it that is hopefully simple is if you 0:14:50.730 --> 0:14:54.090 go to a restaurant, the first one, the financial consent 0:14:54.090 --> 0:14:58.080 order is really about agreeing between you, how you're going 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:02.670 to settle the bill there and then current situation. The 0:15:02.850 --> 0:15:08.100 clean break order is really about you agreeing that in 0:15:08.100 --> 0:15:10.980 five years time, you're not going to send each other 0:15:10.980 --> 0:15:16.380 an invoice trying to change the agreed amount that you 0:15:16.380 --> 0:15:19.620 had back then. So, one of them's current, one of 0:15:19.620 --> 0:15:23.010 them's future. Now, it's not right for everyone. So, for 0:15:23.010 --> 0:15:26.010 example, a clean break order might not be right if 0:15:26.010 --> 0:15:31.260 you've got ongoing maintenance payments, child payments, et cetera, but 0:15:31.260 --> 0:15:33.690 that's where good advice can help you understand. 0:15:33.750 --> 0:15:37.650 So, divorce, it's not just about separating finances though. It's about 0:15:37.770 --> 0:15:40.440 updating paperwork, not the most thrilling task in the world, 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:44.400 but it is important. What are the key documents that people often 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:46.020 forget to review during this time? 0:15:46.140 --> 0:15:49.170 They don't tell you about the admin, but actually there 0:15:49.170 --> 0:15:52.860 are a few key things that are really, really important. So, 0:15:52.860 --> 0:15:57.030 the first one is if you have any joint accounts, 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.860 joint credit cards, joint loans, debt, you are both legally 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.670 responsible for these. So, it's really important. Reach out to 0:16:05.670 --> 0:16:09.090 your lender early on. Some people are surprised about how 0:16:09.090 --> 0:16:12.030 helpful they are, but you have to imagine that lenders 0:16:12.210 --> 0:16:14.040 deal with this all the time and they can help 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:18.570 you understand your options. The second thing, it's really checking 0:16:18.570 --> 0:16:23.280 the will, checking the pension, checking your insurances, and seeing 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.430 if you've still got your ex listed as the person 0:16:26.430 --> 0:16:29.910 who will benefit from all of these things if you 0:16:29.910 --> 0:16:34.080 were to die. And it's a great opportunity to review 0:16:34.080 --> 0:16:37.320 what you did say, what you do want to happen 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.080 if anything was to happen to you. And then the 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:43.290 third space is really if you've got any joint life 0:16:43.290 --> 0:16:48.120 policies or health policies, you'll need to consider taking out 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:51.030 a policy on your own. This is a great time 0:16:51.030 --> 0:16:53.670 for you to also think about if as your needs 0:16:53.670 --> 0:16:57.120 have changed, whether you have any additional needs. So, a 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.690 good example is if you move out on your own 0:17:00.690 --> 0:17:04.469 and suddenly you are solely responsible for your rent or 0:17:04.470 --> 0:17:07.950 your mortgage, what would happen if you were unable to 0:17:07.950 --> 0:17:10.980 work for a long period of time due to sickness 0:17:10.980 --> 0:17:14.220 or ill health? So, there's income protection helps with that. 0:17:14.220 --> 0:17:17.520 So, it's just important to check in on, is it 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.100 a straight swap just to a policy on my own 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:23.190 or is it me rethinking the needs that I've now 0:17:23.190 --> 0:17:25.170 got and what would be best suited? 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:27.480 Mm- hmm. Quite a lot to think about there, but 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.359 all those things are really important because actually in my 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:33.629 line of work, you do see a lot of these 0:17:33.630 --> 0:17:37.109 things end up in court later on and it can 0:17:37.109 --> 0:17:40.560 get quite messy and you can definitely avoid that with 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.560 just a bit of attention to the paperwork now. So, 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.469 once a dust settles, what are some practical steps that 0:17:46.470 --> 0:17:49.980 people can take to then build up their savings and 0:17:49.980 --> 0:17:53.100 their pensions on their own? So, you take a breath. 0:17:54.180 --> 0:17:58.409 Finally reached a point where you feel more grounded in 0:17:58.410 --> 0:18:01.650 what you can do next and that's important. Again, you 0:18:01.650 --> 0:18:06.359 can start small. The first thing is really about building 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.899 up that emergency savings buffer. So, we often say three 0:18:09.900 --> 0:18:14.430 to six months of your essential expenses is what you 0:18:14.430 --> 0:18:19.379 should put aside in cash somewhere accessible that gives you 0:18:19.380 --> 0:18:23.369 that safety net. So, that's really important. Once you've done 0:18:23.369 --> 0:18:25.650 that, you can then start to think about what some 0:18:25.650 --> 0:18:28.109 of those medium and long- term goals are that you've 0:18:28.109 --> 0:18:31.590 got for yourself and you can start saving. Just put 0:18:31.590 --> 0:18:35.070 a little bit away each month. If you're thinking about 0:18:35.070 --> 0:18:38.700 medium to long- term goals, so five years plus, you 0:18:38.700 --> 0:18:42.420 can also think about investing as well. And the long- 0:18:42.420 --> 0:18:46.230 term bit is really about checking in with your pension. 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:49.409 So, what happened during the time that you were going 0:18:49.410 --> 0:18:53.790 through the separation divorce? Did you reduce your contributions? Do 0:18:53.790 --> 0:18:56.220 you need to lift those back up? Are you on 0:18:56.220 --> 0:18:59.070 track for what you really want? And I think it's 0:18:59.070 --> 0:19:01.050 hard, isn't it? Because you sit there and think, " Oh 0:19:01.050 --> 0:19:04.590 God, in 30 years, I can put that off." But 0:19:04.590 --> 0:19:08.580 actually people don't realize how much of a bigger difference 0:19:09.180 --> 0:19:14.070 a small change today will make in those 20 to 30 years. 0:19:14.310 --> 0:19:18.000 And look, you can access lots of apps and tools. 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:22.650 And we have launched a guided retirement planner that actually 0:19:22.740 --> 0:19:26.100 helps people to play around with those options. So, what 0:19:26.100 --> 0:19:29.100 happens if I add a little bit in each month 0:19:29.100 --> 0:19:31.950 and it's quite amazing the sort of impact that you 0:19:31.950 --> 0:19:34.830 see that it can have and that can be really motivating. 0:19:35.250 --> 0:19:38.490 So, an opportunity for you to just reset. 0:19:38.609 --> 0:19:41.040 Yes. And get that inspiration where you can find it. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:41.820 Exactly. 0:19:41.850 --> 0:19:44.220 Well, this has been incredibly helpful, Jenny. I'm going to 0:19:44.220 --> 0:19:48.119 finish up with what is the one thing that you 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.280 would like people to take away from this? 0:19:50.340 --> 0:19:55.770 Talk to your partner or ex- partner about money. It 0:19:55.770 --> 0:19:59.760 can be really awkward to have those conversations in the 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:04.260 beginning, but I promise you it will be financially better 0:20:04.260 --> 0:20:08.040 to have the conversations than dealing with them later on. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:10.560 And if you are going through a divorce or a 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:14.070 big breakup, then it's still really important that you get 0:20:14.070 --> 0:20:17.250 to know those numbers. So, start that conversation now. 0:20:17.310 --> 0:20:19.379 I couldn't agree more. Thank you so much. 0:20:19.380 --> 0:20:20.010 Thank you. 0:20:20.010 --> 0:20:23.160 And that brings us to the end of today's episode 0:20:23.190 --> 0:20:25.530 of A Little Bit Richer. A huge thank you to 0:20:25.530 --> 0:20:29.130 Jenny for sharing her expertise and her personal insights, which 0:20:29.130 --> 0:20:32.280 will hopefully make this whole area feel that little bit 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:35.520 easier to navigate. If you found this episode helpful, I'd 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:37.770 love it if you could share it with someone who 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.379 might need it right now. Next time, friend of the 0:20:40.380 --> 0:20:43.020 show, Crystal McGilvrey is back to talk about how to 0:20:43.020 --> 0:20:46.560 handle the ups and downs of being self- employed. This 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.260 podcast is brought to you by LNG. You can keep 0:20:49.260 --> 0:20:53.190 up with the show on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram at 0:20:53.190 --> 0:20:56.310 legal and general. If you have a question or topic 0:20:56.369 --> 0:20:58.890 that you'd like answered on the show, then you can 0:20:58.890 --> 0:21:02.130 get in touch on our socials. Please do. Until next 0:21:02.130 --> 0:21:04.740 time, see you soon and thank you for listening.