Iona Bain: Hello and welcome to A Little Bit Richer, with me,
Iona Bain: Iona Bain, brought to you by Legal & General. Now, when
Iona Bain: it comes to money, a lot of us have a
Iona Bain: story we tell ourselves like, I can't afford to plan
Iona Bain: for the future right now, or, I'll think about saving
Iona Bain: later. We're so focused on getting through the month and
Iona Bain: when we're living like that, it's hard to think about
Iona Bain: the future. But the choices we make today, where we
Iona Bain: live, how we spend, what we save, they're all quietly
Iona Bain: shaping the life our future selves will inherit. So today
Iona Bain: we're exploring the idea of present you versus future you
Iona Bain: and how the decisions we make today, big or small,
Iona Bain: will shape the opportunities we have later. Joining me today
Iona Bain: is financial educator and content creator, Tolu Frimpong, who has built
Iona Bain: a community helping people rethink their relationship with money. Tolu,
Iona Bain: welcome to A Little Bit Richer.
Tolu Frimpong: Thank you for having me.
Iona Bain: Let's start with a 30- second summary of why looking
Iona Bain: after your financial future is so important. Are you ready?
Tolu Frimpong: Oh my gosh. The pressure.
Iona Bain: You'll smash it, I'm sure. All right. Go.
Tolu Frimpong: Your financial future is so important because the reality is
Tolu Frimpong: time is going to pass irrespective of how we spend
Tolu Frimpong: it. It's so important for present you to really think
Tolu Frimpong: and prepare for future you. So the lifestyle you want
Tolu Frimpong: to live, the house you want to live in, the
Tolu Frimpong: activities that you want to be able to do later
Tolu Frimpong: on in life, all of that is shaped by the
Tolu Frimpong: decisions that you make today. Yes, whilst life is happening,
Tolu Frimpong: cost of living is high, we need to really think
Tolu Frimpong: about what we're doing here and now so that later
Tolu Frimpong: on we get to enjoy it.
Iona Bain: Oh, yes. That was absolutely spot on. Yeah.
Tolu Frimpong: Very good.
Iona Bain: Brilliant, brilliant stuff. And very, very inspiring as well. That's
Iona Bain: exactly the right tone, I feel, to start our conversation
Iona Bain: because you yourself have made quite a big financial decision
Iona Bain: in recent times. Could you explain to me why you
Iona Bain: decided to move you and your family out of London
Iona Bain: and what impact that's had on your finances?
Tolu Frimpong: So my husband and I made this decision a couple
Tolu Frimpong: of years ago to move outside of London. It wasn't
Tolu Frimpong: a decision that we took lightly because I'm a Southeast
Tolu Frimpong: Londoner at heart, born and raised, and I've always loved
Tolu Frimpong: living in London. However, I really had to start thinking
Tolu Frimpong: about the future that I envision for my family, for
Tolu Frimpong: my children, what I want our lifestyle to be like.
Tolu Frimpong: And unfortunately, it was just becoming unaffordable to stay in
Tolu Frimpong: London just because of the rising costs. Our mortgage was
Tolu Frimpong: rising. Our cost of living was rising. Everything was just
Tolu Frimpong: going up and there wasn't enough of a gap between
Tolu Frimpong: our income and our expenses. So we really had to
Tolu Frimpong: have a tough conversation about, okay, if we want to
Tolu Frimpong: be able to continue to live a certain lifestyle, we
Tolu Frimpong: really need to re- strategize and start thinking about, okay,
Tolu Frimpong: what can we do to widen that gap? And we
Tolu Frimpong: made that tough decision to uproot our family, make our
Tolu Frimpong: children change schools, change home and move outside of London.
Tolu Frimpong: And it's been an incredible journey so far. Initially, I
Tolu Frimpong: was a bit nervous and skeptical about doing it because I've
Tolu Frimpong: never lived outside of London. However, I'm glad we made
Tolu Frimpong: that decision because it saved us a fortune and it's
Tolu Frimpong: just given us a better quality of life.
Iona Bain: So no regrets?
Tolu Frimpong: It's only coming on to a year now since we
Tolu Frimpong: made that decision to relocate. And yeah, so far no regrets.
Iona Bain: But that's really interesting that you were thinking ahead and
Iona Bain: able to really plan for the future. We know people
Iona Bain: do tend to be quite focused on the present for
Iona Bain: very understandable reasons, but why can that be a bit
Iona Bain: of a problem when it comes to our finances?
Tolu Frimpong: The reality is that we focus on the things that
Tolu Frimpong: are urgent rather than the things that are important. So
Tolu Frimpong: because we're focused on here and now, I need to
Tolu Frimpong: feed my children, I need to pay for groceries, I
Tolu Frimpong: need to pay for the afterschool clubs, et cetera. There's
Tolu Frimpong: always something right now demanding our money and our attention.
Tolu Frimpong: So we focus on that without looking at the bigger
Tolu Frimpong: picture and what we want our future to look like.
Tolu Frimpong: What we end up doing is missing the opportunities for
Tolu Frimpong: the better life that we could create for ourself because
Tolu Frimpong: we haven't lifted our heads above the parapet.
Iona Bain: We almost get stuck in survival mode.
Tolu Frimpong: Exactly. Survival mode. Yeah.
Iona Bain: So how do we shift out of that and start
Iona Bain: thinking more about the future?
Tolu Frimpong: There's a lot of things that we can do. I
Tolu Frimpong: think number one is really understanding our numbers and really
Tolu Frimpong: having honest conversations with ourselves about where we are and
Tolu Frimpong: where we want to be. So like for myself, we
Tolu Frimpong: had to have that difficult conversation about moving outside of
Tolu Frimpong: London. For somebody else, it might be we need to
Tolu Frimpong: downsize our house. I need to sell my car or
Tolu Frimpong: choose alternative modes of transport. What can we do to
Tolu Frimpong: reduce those expenses so that we can put money towards
Tolu Frimpong: the things that are more important to us? And yes,
Tolu Frimpong: there are so many external factors beyond our control, but
Tolu Frimpong: the things that are within our control, let's focus on
Tolu Frimpong: that and make decisions so that we can do the
Tolu Frimpong: best that we can with the resources that we have available.
Iona Bain: So for you, the decision to move out of London
Iona Bain: cannot have been an easy one. It's where you were
Iona Bain: born and brought up. How do you separate the practical and
Iona Bain: financial considerations from what can be quite an emotional decision
Iona Bain: to make?
Tolu Frimpong: We used to live five minutes away from my in
Tolu Frimpong: laws. So my mother- in- law, father- in- law, were
Tolu Frimpong: literally around the corner. So we had that option of 24/
Tolu Frimpong: 7 support for the children and we had to give
Tolu Frimpong: that up. So that was a big emotional decision to make
Tolu Frimpong: because my husband's super close to his parents and I'm
Tolu Frimpong: super close to them as well. We lived with them
Tolu Frimpong: for three years when we first got married. So very close-
Tolu Frimpong: knit family. So making that big decision to move out
Tolu Frimpong: of London wasn't one we made lightly, but we really
Tolu Frimpong: did need to think about our children and the future that
Tolu Frimpong: we wanted for them. And we knew that as much
Tolu Frimpong: as it was something we wanted to do emotionally, stay
Tolu Frimpong: close to family. We knew that financially just didn't make the most
Tolu Frimpong: sense for us to stay and we needed to make
Tolu Frimpong: that sacrifice for the future that we wanted for our
Tolu Frimpong: family. So it wasn't an easy one. It was a
Tolu Frimpong: very emotionally draining one. And it is one to this
Tolu Frimpong: day that I'm like, it would be so nice to have them
Tolu Frimpong: close by. I'm still hoping that we can convince them
Tolu Frimpong: to move down eventually.
Iona Bain: That's a long- term plan.
Tolu Frimpong: Yeah, exactly. That's the long- term plan, to get them to
Tolu Frimpong: retire and move to Ken. I think sometimes we do
Tolu Frimpong: need to separate the emotion from the practicality and think
Tolu Frimpong: about what actually makes the most logical sense.
Iona Bain: I completely agree. And my parents have downsized, which is
Iona Bain: a big financial decision to make, and they moved halfway
Iona Bain: across the country as well, partly to be near me
Iona Bain: and my brother, but also partly because it made financial
Iona Bain: sense for them. But again, it's not easy. They were
Iona Bain: in that house that they were in for 30 odd
Iona Bain: years and therefore I'm very admiring of people who can
Iona Bain: make those big decisions, but it is easier said than done.
Iona Bain: So what would your advice be to anyone who is
Iona Bain: thinking about making a really big decision that would benefit
Iona Bain: their finances, but is going to represent a big change in their life?
Tolu Frimpong: I would advise them to sit down and write the
Tolu Frimpong: pros and the cons of this decision that they're making,
Tolu Frimpong: because I think when you actually take the emotion away
Tolu Frimpong: from it, when the pros strongly outweigh the cons, it
Tolu Frimpong: makes it easier to make that decision. You can come
Tolu Frimpong: back to that. Exactly. You can come back to it. It's like, okay,
Tolu Frimpong: yes, this is hard. However, we've made this sacrifice because.
Tolu Frimpong: And so for my family, it was the best option,
Tolu Frimpong: but also we were considering things like secondary schools for
Tolu Frimpong: my children. And just recently, my son got into his
Tolu Frimpong: first choice, secondary school. So it was little things like that,
Tolu Frimpong: that give you that reassurance that, oh, okay, actually we
Tolu Frimpong: have made the right choice for our family. So yes,
Tolu Frimpong: it's not easy, but nothing in life is easy, so
Tolu Frimpong: you have to choose your hard.
Iona Bain: Yeah. Embrace change.
Tolu Frimpong: Exactly.
Iona Bain: And there will be people who are wondering about making
Iona Bain: a change in their finances when it comes to their
Iona Bain: pensions or maybe starting to invest, but they don't feel
Iona Bain: like they've got enough money. And for some people, that
Iona Bain: is a reality. For other people, it may be more
Iona Bain: of a perception rather than the reality. So what would
Iona Bain: you say to anyone who doesn't feel that they have
Iona Bain: any money to spare for those sorts of things like
Iona Bain: a pension or investments?
Tolu Frimpong: Yeah. I would say that you can't afford not to
Tolu Frimpong: do these things. So if I give myself, for example,
Tolu Frimpong: I opted out of my workplace pension when I first got
Tolu Frimpong: my graduate job and I worked at that job for
Tolu Frimpong: 10 years. So I missed out on all of my
Tolu Frimpong: employer's contribution, my employer's match, and plus the compound interest
Tolu Frimpong: that I could have been making on that pension for a
Tolu Frimpong: decade. And that's because I thought I needed that money.
Tolu Frimpong: I want to go on holiday, I want to travel,
Tolu Frimpong: I want to save for a new car. All of
Tolu Frimpong: these things that I thought were a priority then. Fast- forward
Tolu Frimpong: to nearly 40 year old me, and I'm kicking myself
Tolu Frimpong: at that decision that I made back then to opt
Tolu Frimpong: out, because yes, you may think you can't afford to
Tolu Frimpong: pay into these things, but it's for your own betterment
Tolu Frimpong: and for your own benefit. So you're paying for your
Tolu Frimpong: future self. Right now you think that, okay, this is the
Tolu Frimpong: best decision, but actually you're only doing yourself a disservice
Tolu Frimpong: later on down the line. So all you're doing is
Tolu Frimpong: you're delaying your heart.
Iona Bain: And part of the problem is that presumably at that
Iona Bain: point when you were deciding whether to stay in the
Iona Bain: pension, you weren't really being told what the benefits are
Iona Bain: staying in that pension long term were. So do you
Iona Bain: feel that sometimes people don't get given the kind of
Iona Bain: information that they need to make an informed choice?
Tolu Frimpong: Oh, absolutely. I didn't know what pensions were. All I
Tolu Frimpong: knew was that it was another deduction from my payslip.
Tolu Frimpong: I'm seeing national insurance, I'm seeing pension, I'm seeing student
Tolu Frimpong: loan, all of these deductions from my salary. And I'm like, "
Tolu Frimpong: Why are all these people taking my money?" So we
Tolu Frimpong: didn't have that education. It's not until I went on
Tolu Frimpong: a whole journey with money, getting myself into debt and
Tolu Frimpong: paying off that debt that I learned about the value of
Tolu Frimpong: things like pensions. And that's when I'm like, " Oh my
Tolu Frimpong: gosh, Tolu, you've made a big mistake here by opting
Tolu Frimpong: out." So definitely I think it's the unawareness that people
Tolu Frimpong: have about the importance of things like your pension and
Tolu Frimpong: investing. So you want to make those decisions today so
Tolu Frimpong: that future you can be comfortable because the reality is
Tolu Frimpong: that time is going to pass regardless of what you
Tolu Frimpong: do with it. And I can't believe I'm going to
Tolu Frimpong: be turning 40 soon. I thought I was going to be
Tolu Frimpong: a baby girl forever, but here I am, barely 40.
Iona Bain: It's a shock, isn't it?
Tolu Frimpong: It's a shock and it comes by so quickly. So
Tolu Frimpong: you want to really make sure you're putting things in place and
Tolu Frimpong: preparing financially so that you are in the strongest position
Tolu Frimpong: you can when you meet future you.
Iona Bain: Absolutely. And how important is identity in all this? Because
Iona Bain: we have previously covered the book, Atomic Habits in our
Iona Bain: book club episode, and that talks a lot about how
Iona Bain: identity drives current and future habits. So how would you
Iona Bain: apply that thinking about identity and how you see yourself
Iona Bain: to motivate you to really act in your best interests?
Tolu Frimpong: Identity is a big thing. And I think it's one
Tolu Frimpong: of those things that hold a lot of us back
Tolu Frimpong: from becoming the best versions of ourselves. So I like
Tolu Frimpong: to say that saying all the time where if you
Tolu Frimpong: believe you can or you believe you can't, you're right.
Tolu Frimpong: So if you don't think you can save money, you're
Tolu Frimpong: not going to save money. So I've always said, I
Tolu Frimpong: can't wake up early, but having children, I've had to
Tolu Frimpong: become a morning person by force because they're morning people.
Tolu Frimpong: So it's like all those years of me saying I'm
Tolu Frimpong: not a morning person wasting all those hours early in the
Tolu Frimpong: morning when I could have been productive, working on my
Tolu Frimpong: business, et cetera. Had I have had that identity shift
Tolu Frimpong: back then, I could have achieved a lot more. Likewise,
Tolu Frimpong: when it comes to your finances, saying, " I can't save.
Tolu Frimpong: I can't invest. I can't pay off debt. I can't
Tolu Frimpong: do all of these things." You're never going to start
Tolu Frimpong: taking the steps required to then achieve those things. So
Tolu Frimpong: the book, Atomic Habit that you mentioned, he talks about
Tolu Frimpong: starting small. So you can't go from saying, " I'm not
Tolu Frimpong: a saver," to, " I'm going to save 1, 000 pounds a month."
Tolu Frimpong: That's not realistic. You're setting yourself up for failure. But
Tolu Frimpong: what you can do is say, " Okay, every time I
Tolu Frimpong: spend 10 pounds or 9. 50, I'm going to save
Tolu Frimpong: the 50 pence and I'm not going to touch it."
Tolu Frimpong: And then you can build on that little habit incrementally
Tolu Frimpong: week on week, month on month until you look back
Tolu Frimpong: at the end of the year and you see how
Tolu Frimpong: much money you've been able to save. And then you
Tolu Frimpong: have that evidence that, oh, actually I can do that. And
Tolu Frimpong: then that identity becomes more real to you.
Iona Bain: Yeah. And it's really interesting because potentially from that small
Iona Bain: behavior change in the beginning, further down the line as
Iona Bain: you develop that identity of someone who is looking after
Iona Bain: your future self, you're then in a position to make
Iona Bain: those bigger changes perhaps that will really, really add up
Iona Bain: and compound over the long term. So there's that kind
Iona Bain: of relationship from the small habits right up to the
Iona Bain: big decisions.
Tolu Frimpong: Exactly. It's baby steps, but it all compounds over time
Tolu Frimpong: for sure.
Iona Bain: And how does somebody move away from thinking, I'm always
Iona Bain: broke. That's just how life is. That's my situation, to
Iona Bain: I'm somebody who builds wealth? How do you make that shift
Iona Bain: from one identity to the other?
Tolu Frimpong: So it's going back to building evidence in support of
Tolu Frimpong: this new identity that you're claiming is yours. So if you're
Tolu Frimpong: saying you're not somebody that can save money, if day
Tolu Frimpong: in, day out, you're saving 50 piece, saving a pound,
Tolu Frimpong: five pound, 10 pounds, eventually over time that money compounds
Tolu Frimpong: and then you realize, oh, actually I can save. I've
Tolu Frimpong: been able to achieve this goal of maybe paying off
Tolu Frimpong: this amount of debt or opening my investment account finally.
Tolu Frimpong: All of these little things, you build up that evidence.
Tolu Frimpong: I think also what we say about ourselves becomes true.
Tolu Frimpong: So be mindful of the words that we speak. So
Tolu Frimpong: saying I'm lazy, saying I'm broke, saying I'm never going
Tolu Frimpong: to be rich, saying only a certain demographic of people
Tolu Frimpong: can be wealthy. All of these things that we say
Tolu Frimpong: and that we consume in our content, all those things shape
Tolu Frimpong: our identity. So when you don't think you can see
Tolu Frimpong: yourself in a certain space or you can't see yourself
Tolu Frimpong: achieving certain things, it's never going to be a reality.
Tolu Frimpong: You've kind of set yourself up for failure even before
Tolu Frimpong: you've got started.
Iona Bain: So how did you go from being somebody who made
Iona Bain: these decisions like opting out of your pension and tending
Iona Bain: to think about the here and now to somebody who
Iona Bain: clearly thinks very, very deeply about the future?
Tolu Frimpong: I think it's life. Life happened. I got myself into
Tolu Frimpong: a lot of debt and I went on a whole
Tolu Frimpong: journey of learning about money. So a lot of the
Tolu Frimpong: content I started consuming was more about people starting to
Tolu Frimpong: budget, people paying off debt, people learning how to invest.
Tolu Frimpong: And I'm seeing women that look like me who are
Tolu Frimpong: now investors that have huge amounts of wealth that they've
Tolu Frimpong: been able to accumulate, not because they were born into
Tolu Frimpong: money or because they earn a high figure, but because
Tolu Frimpong: they were just really good stewards of their finances and
Tolu Frimpong: they were able to make their money grow. And so
Tolu Frimpong: for me, seeing them being able to do it said
Tolu Frimpong: to me okay, if they can do it, there's no
Tolu Frimpong: reason why I can't do it. My mom always says
Tolu Frimpong: to me, " They don't have two heads," and it's so
Tolu Frimpong: true. They don't have two heads. So they're showing me
Tolu Frimpong: the blueprint as to how I can also do it.
Tolu Frimpong: I think before there was a lack of knowledge, so
Tolu Frimpong: I didn't know what I didn't know.
Iona Bain: It's interesting because some people might see that content and
Iona Bain: think it's a little bit daunting, but you saw it
Iona Bain: and you were inspired by it.
Tolu Frimpong: Very inspired. Yeah.
Iona Bain: And do you feel like the information that you receive
Iona Bain: is also incredibly important to you cultivating that new identity?
Iona Bain: What advice would you have for people who want to
Iona Bain: improve what they see around them? Because that was clearly,
Iona Bain: really, really crucial for you.
Tolu Frimpong: Yes, absolutely. I would say be mindful. So if you're
Tolu Frimpong: just seeing people live these lavish lives, but they're not
Tolu Frimpong: showing you how they've been able to do it makes
Tolu Frimpong: it seem like, oh my gosh, I'm missing out. What have
Tolu Frimpong: I done wrong? Why is my life like this? And
Tolu Frimpong: there's this like that. But when you're following accounts of
Tolu Frimpong: people that look literally just like you, ordinary everyday people
Tolu Frimpong: that just make better money decisions and they're able to
Tolu Frimpong: pay off debt, they're able to save, invest, et cetera,
Tolu Frimpong: it makes you think, okay, if they can do it, I
Tolu Frimpong: can do it too. I think the books and a
Tolu Frimpong: podcast and everything that we consume can help shape us
Tolu Frimpong: for the good or for the bad. And I think
Tolu Frimpong: for me, I was just consuming a lot of materials
Tolu Frimpong: that helped change my money mindset and helped me get
Tolu Frimpong: better with money and enabled me to start a platform
Tolu Frimpong: that I ended up starting.
Iona Bain: Yeah. It's a really good point because for me, I
Iona Bain: have to balance news about how difficult the economy is.
Iona Bain: But I know that if I consume too much of
Iona Bain: that, it then starts to influence my perception of my
Iona Bain: finances and I start to get things out of perspective.
Iona Bain: I then have to balance that with information that actually
Iona Bain: helps me to be more positive and constructive and helps
Iona Bain: me to keep the news in perspective because otherwise it
Iona Bain: can get to you. We are in tough times at
Iona Bain: the moment.
Tolu Frimpong: Tell me about it. No, we really are. I like
Tolu Frimpong: to focus on what I can change and not things
Tolu Frimpong: that are beyond my control because it makes me kind
Tolu Frimpong: of feel helpless. Whereas when I'm consuming stuff like, okay,
Tolu Frimpong: I can apply this, those are the things I tend
Tolu Frimpong: to lean more towards.
Iona Bain: And if somebody maybe doesn't feel quite ready to make
Iona Bain: a big decision about their finances, whether it's starting a
Iona Bain: new job or moving to a new place, whatever it
Iona Bain: might be, what kind of one or two things could
Iona Bain: they start doing today that could really add up and
Iona Bain: make a difference over the long term?
Tolu Frimpong: What you don't know, you can't change, right? So just
Tolu Frimpong: learning about money. Listening to podcasts like this, this is
Tolu Frimpong: a great step as well.
Iona Bain: Absolutely.
Tolu Frimpong: But not just listening to it, but actually taking one thing
Tolu Frimpong: and saying, " Okay, this is what I'm going to apply
Tolu Frimpong: today." Whether it's opening that savings account, whether it's opting
Tolu Frimpong: back into my workplace pension, whether it's starting to invest.
Tolu Frimpong: Whatever it is, just make that decision. I think that would be
Tolu Frimpong: a great place to start. I would also say, look
Tolu Frimpong: at what you can do about your financial circumstances. So whether
Tolu Frimpong: it is skilling up, whether it is speaking to employer
Tolu Frimpong: about a pay rise. You've been in that job for
Tolu Frimpong: five years and you've only had a pay rise once. Why
Tolu Frimpong: is that? And just add value to yourself even within
Tolu Frimpong: the workplace. So maybe you've asked but your employer said
Tolu Frimpong: no, maybe ask, " Okay, what can I do?" And make
Tolu Frimpong: that your mission over the next six months to position
Tolu Frimpong: yourself in a way to revisit that conversation and get
Tolu Frimpong: that pay rise. So what can I do within my
Tolu Frimpong: control to improve my financial situation? And then once I've
Tolu Frimpong: made that improvement, what am I going to do with that
Tolu Frimpong: extra money?
Iona Bain: Yeah, because it's not just about saving money. It's also
Iona Bain: about investing in yourself because then over the long run,
Iona Bain: that will obviously have a really, really big dividend. So
Iona Bain: after this episode, if folks want to go away, have
Iona Bain: a cup of tea, whilst they're waiting for the kettle
Iona Bain: to boil, what's one thing that they could do to
Iona Bain: try to make their futures better?
Tolu Frimpong: I think one thing is come up with a plan.
Tolu Frimpong: So sit down, write down what future me wants to
Tolu Frimpong: look like and what steps I can take towards making future
Tolu Frimpong: me a reality, whether it's opening a savings account or
Tolu Frimpong: opening an investment account, opting back into your workplace pension,
Tolu Frimpong: just making a decision today that future you is going
Tolu Frimpong: to thank you for.
Iona Bain: I feel really inspired now to go and do that
Iona Bain: and have a cup of tea at the same time.
Tolu Frimpong: Love it.
Iona Bain: Thanks, Tolu.
Tolu Frimpong: Thanks for having me.
Iona Bain: A huge thanks again to Tolu. And we really hope
Iona Bain: this episode has given you something to think about. What's
Iona Bain: one small step that you could take today that would
Iona Bain: make life easier for future you? One to think about.
Iona Bain: Next time, I'll be joined by Tom from L& G
Iona Bain: for a recap on workplace pensions. This podcast is brought
Iona Bain: to you by L& G. I'd love it if you
Iona Bain: could share the podcast and help others get a little
Iona Bain: bit richer too. You can keep up with the show
Iona Bain: on YouTube, TikTok, and Instagram, @ legal& general. And if you've
Iona Bain: got a question or a topic that you would like
Iona Bain: answered on the show, please do get in touch on
Iona Bain: our socials because we love to hear from you. Until
Iona Bain: next time, see you soon and thanks for listening.