Speaker 5: Fresh Air. Fresh Air production.
Neil Cowling: Hello, and welcome to Fresh Ears. I'm Neil Cowling, the
Neil Cowling: founder of Fresh Air Production and we're the UK's leading
Neil Cowling: producer of podcasts for brands. In this series, we look
Neil Cowling: to see what we can learn about making branded podcasts
Neil Cowling: by talking through one of the projects that we completed
Neil Cowling: with the producer and with the client. We talk about
Neil Cowling: why they got into podcasting in the first place, the
Neil Cowling: choices they made along the way, and how they judged
Neil Cowling: it to be a success. We also, of course, talk
Neil Cowling: about those bumps in the road. Radio DJ link coming
Neil Cowling: up. But today we're not talking about roads but train
Neil Cowling: tracks, as we explore Lives on the Lines, a podcast
Neil Cowling: series for Greater Anglia. In this series, our producer turned
Neil Cowling: presenter to navigate her way around the branch lines of
Neil Cowling: East Anglia, and speak to the wonderful people she met
Neil Cowling: along the way.
Katherine Kerr: Generations would have the same name passed down, wouldn't they?
Speaker 3: They would, yes. Like West and Peg. They would sometimes
Speaker 3: have the same first name and therefore they would develop
Speaker 3: nicknames. Those nicknames varied greatly. Pongo, you had Teapot.
Katherine Kerr: I can see them now. Poor old Teapot.
Neil Cowling: So, why would a train company create a podcast as
Neil Cowling: a piece of owned content? Joining me to talk this
Neil Cowling: through are Carrie Worrall, the PR consultant on behalf of
Neil Cowling: Greater Anglia Media Team, and our client on this project,
Neil Cowling: and Katherine Kerr, our brilliant senior producer for Fresh Air.
Neil Cowling: So Carrie, let's start with you and let's ask the
Neil Cowling: obvious question of why would Greater Anglia go for a
Neil Cowling: podcast? Why was that the piece of content that you
Neil Cowling: decided to create?
Carrie Worrall: Well, there was a couple of reasons, really. Firstly, that we'd done
Carrie Worrall: some research and discovered that podcasts were gaining in popularity.
Carrie Worrall: And then with the arrival of the pandemic, a lot
Carrie Worrall: of our planned activity in regards to making videos, holding
Carrie Worrall: events and other things that we'd normally do from a promotional
Carrie Worrall: point of view, all of a sudden we couldn't do.
Carrie Worrall: So, we had spare budget and some time to fill
Carrie Worrall: and thought that as it was something that we'd been
Carrie Worrall: interested in for a while, it could be a good
Carrie Worrall: way to fill that communications gap, try something new, and
Carrie Worrall: experiment and see how it would go down with our
Carrie Worrall: customers and with people more widely in the region.
Neil Cowling: And so did you have clear objectives that you wanted
Neil Cowling: to achieve from the start of the podcast? Or was
Neil Cowling: it more of, as you say, experimental piece of content?
Carrie Worrall: No, absolutely we had clear objectives because one of the things we thought was
Carrie Worrall: really good about the podcast format was it was something
Carrie Worrall: that we could to use to reach people during lockdowns. We
Carrie Worrall: were seeing that podcast popularity was absolutely soaring. So, we
Carrie Worrall: thought it would be a really good way to present
Carrie Worrall: some of our beautiful scenic branch lines to people while
Carrie Worrall: they couldn't travel and give them that seed of this
Carrie Worrall: is something you might like to do when you can
Carrie Worrall: travel again. But then equally, we thought they'd have a
Carrie Worrall: longevity that would mean that when restrictions were lifted, we
Carrie Worrall: could then use the podcast in a different way, almost
Carrie Worrall: as a guided audio tour that people could even listen
Carrie Worrall: to while they were traveling those lines.
Speaker 3: And so just explain to us the branch lines and
Speaker 3: the community rail partnerships. How do those relationships work? What
Speaker 3: are they to start with?
Carrie Worrall: So, we operate all the trained services in East Anglia.
Carrie Worrall: But on some of our rural branch lines, we also
Carrie Worrall: work in partnership with, and we fund, Community Rail Partnerships
Carrie Worrall: and their organization is comprised of ourselves as the train operator,
Carrie Worrall: local authorities, county councils, other interested stakeholders who are interested
Carrie Worrall: in improving that link between the railway and the communities that
Carrie Worrall: they serve. And so the Community Rail Partnerships really kind
Carrie Worrall: of work with the community to drive improvement, to do
Carrie Worrall: projects that benefit the community, actually on stations and on
Carrie Worrall: platforms. So, they might work with local people to turn
Carrie Worrall: a redundant building into something that the community needs, or
Carrie Worrall: they might create station gardens. They might grow things on
Carrie Worrall: the station gardens that the community can use. They do
Carrie Worrall: lots of outreach work into schools and other organizations. So,
Carrie Worrall: they are fantastic organizations, the Community Rail Partnerships, and they
Carrie Worrall: work really hard to promote the rural branch lines, to
Carrie Worrall: keep them thriving, to make sure that they are serving
Carrie Worrall: the needs of those communities that are around them and
Carrie Worrall: bring people to the railway, but also make sure that
Carrie Worrall: the railway is giving something back as well.
Speaker 3: And so, people might assume that a podcast created by
Speaker 3: Greater Anglia would be for train nerds, for want of
Speaker 3: a better phrase, train enthusiasts. But that wasn't the case
Speaker 3: here. Who did you have in mind as the target
Speaker 3: listener? Who did you really want this to appeal to?
Carrie Worrall: The podcast were made in partnership with our Community Rail
Carrie Worrall: Partnerships. What we really wanted to bring out was that
Carrie Worrall: our branch lines are really scenic, really beautiful, a really
Carrie Worrall: nice way to travel and to see the region. But
Carrie Worrall: also there is that real community feel and that real
Carrie Worrall: community input into those lines. So, we wanted to bring
Carrie Worrall: out not only the lines and what you can do
Carrie Worrall: and see, but also the people that make the place
Carrie Worrall: special as well. That was our focus. And we wanted
Carrie Worrall: to just create a snapshot of these really special places
Carrie Worrall: and these really special people and present that to people
Carrie Worrall: in East Anglia. Let them know about the history of
Carrie Worrall: the area as well and just encapsulate, really, what the
Carrie Worrall: lines are all about.
Neil Cowling: Lovely. So Katherine, as producer, you also became presenter of
Neil Cowling: this series, which I'm pretty certain is the only series
Neil Cowling: that we've made for a brand where the producer has
Neil Cowling: crossed the line into also presenting it. It's fair to
Neil Cowling: say this was a bit of a dream project for
Neil Cowling: you and a passion project as well, wasn't it?
Katherine Kerr: Yes. Especially given the timing as well. After we'd spent however long
Katherine Kerr: in lockdowns, to be able to ... Because it didn't start
Katherine Kerr: out, as the plan, that we would go to the
Katherine Kerr: places. But we just felt if we wanted to convey
Katherine Kerr: what Carrie was saying, the kind of community feel and
Katherine Kerr: the sense of place so strongly, we wanted to have
Katherine Kerr: people recording locally. It didn't start out, obviously, with us
Katherine Kerr: saying that we would send someone down there in that
Katherine Kerr: period after the first lockdowns when it seemed things would
Katherine Kerr: be opening up, there was still a lot of uncertainty.
Katherine Kerr: But as it evolved, when you start to talk about
Katherine Kerr: a project in the early stages, you think regardless, how
Katherine Kerr: big can it be? And you try to think how
Katherine Kerr: you do this if all the logistical things were no
Katherine Kerr: object. And so I think what we had in mind
Katherine Kerr: when we were throwing ideas around initially, was that we
Katherine Kerr: could ... First, I think Carrie's idea was we could get
Katherine Kerr: people locally to record things and send them in. And
Katherine Kerr: then it evolved from there into actually us going to
Katherine Kerr: the places and meeting people face to face and capturing
Katherine Kerr: sounds and experiencing a part of their lives actually. And so
Katherine Kerr: the concept kind of fed back into itself. But yeah,
Katherine Kerr: as a producer, it was a dream project because as
Katherine Kerr: I'm very enthusiastic about rail travel, particularly in certain areas
Katherine Kerr: of our country, and East Anglia is such a beautiful
Katherine Kerr: and diverse, magical patchwork of people and landscape and industry
Katherine Kerr: and history. It was basically all the stuff I love
Katherine Kerr: just rolled into one. So, it was great to work
Katherine Kerr: on it. Absolutely brilliant.
Neil Cowling: And you are a brilliant location producer. You're a really
Neil Cowling: passionate ... The other work that you do with us, English
Neil Cowling: Heritage. We've done National Trust, Historic England in the past.
Neil Cowling: You've always found yourself going out and exploring these places
Neil Cowling: and recording on location. Let's just talk about that for
Neil Cowling: a moment. Why is location recording so special now that
Neil Cowling: we're able to get out of home again? What do
Neil Cowling: you love about recording on location?
Katherine Kerr: Obviously there's the thing about capturing the actual sounds and
Katherine Kerr: feel of a place, which you just don't get in
Katherine Kerr: a studio. But the other side of it is speaking
Katherine Kerr: to people in a place where they are themselves. And
Katherine Kerr: when you have a conversation or an interview on location
Katherine Kerr: with someone in their hometown or someone able to talk
Katherine Kerr: in a space where they're particularly passionate about whatever you're
Katherine Kerr: talking to them about, you get a different side to
Katherine Kerr: the conversation. People are more relaxed, open, because you don't
Katherine Kerr: have that sense of it being a live show with
Katherine Kerr: the deadline if you book the studio for a certain
Katherine Kerr: time and people have to get trains to and from.
Katherine Kerr: In all the location stuff I tend to do, when
Katherine Kerr: you're speaking to people who are experts in whatever area
Katherine Kerr: you are talking to them about, or have a passion,
Katherine Kerr: they're in a place they love to be. So, you're
Katherine Kerr: just going to get a real sense of that. And
Katherine Kerr: that's why I really enjoy location recording.
Neil Cowling: And it's obvious to hear you that you are passionate about the topic
Neil Cowling: and about the area and it's very clear why you
Neil Cowling: were a choice for presenter on this. But how did
Neil Cowling: that work? I think there would be a fear that
Neil Cowling: if you are both producing and presenting, that there's a
Neil Cowling: risk of frankly self- indulgence, without having somebody there to
Neil Cowling: control you or tell you what to do. How did
Neil Cowling: you manage to make that work of doing both those
Neil Cowling: jobs at once?
Katherine Kerr: That was really hard actually, because it definitely got self indulgent at points.
Katherine Kerr: I was having a really nice time and I was
Katherine Kerr: swept away. And particularly in the writing side of things
Katherine Kerr: as well, I tend to enjoy going off on one
Katherine Kerr: and waxing lyrical about something particularly wonderful or moving. But
Katherine Kerr: that's where working with Carrie was so brilliant because I just
Katherine Kerr: think, obviously we shared things between us or they went anywhere
Katherine Kerr: in first mixes, but Carrie's judgment and knowledge of the
Katherine Kerr: area and basically editorial notes really helped us refine things
Katherine Kerr: from the script stage through to the edits, through to
Katherine Kerr: just refining things more and more as we go through
Katherine Kerr: the different stages of mixes, to make sure that we
Katherine Kerr: are focused on key pieces of content. I think what's
Katherine Kerr: really hard when you are talking to people face to
Katherine Kerr: face is that you get lost in the conversation and you are
Katherine Kerr: not aware of what an observer ... You shouldn't be aware,
Katherine Kerr: really. I think the presenter shouldn't be necessarily aware of
Katherine Kerr: what producer here or someone there is thinking about in
Katherine Kerr: the moment. Obviously different for radio, but with podcasting, we
Katherine Kerr: want to be able to make the most of that
Katherine Kerr: recording time that we have to allow people to talk
Katherine Kerr: in as much depth as they can. So, it's very
Katherine Kerr: different, a live environment where you don't have that edit
Katherine Kerr: process afterwards. So yeah, I think the edit process was
Katherine Kerr: completely essential in terms of that. Having that distance and
Katherine Kerr: having some collaboration, working with Carrie to make sure that
Katherine Kerr: we focused on what was important, what was universally interesting,
Katherine Kerr: and got the best out of everybody and did our
Katherine Kerr: contributors justice.
Speaker 3: And Carrie, how did that work from your side of
Speaker 3: that two person team of you and Katherine creating that
Speaker 3: work? Was it particularly labor intensive from your point of
Speaker 3: view? Could you describe your input into the process?
Carrie Worrall: I just feel so grateful that we found Katherine and
Carrie Worrall: we found Fresh Air. We had looked around at other
Carrie Worrall: places. But when we first spoke to you and then
Carrie Worrall: hearing that Katherine already had that knowledge and that passion
Carrie Worrall: for our subject, and then the way that she went
Carrie Worrall: on to approach all the different people, get their interviews,
Carrie Worrall: and the way the interviews came back, as Katherine says,
Carrie Worrall: when she sent us the first mixes and things. We
Carrie Worrall: were just so happy. We were so pleased that she'd
Carrie Worrall: really just delivered exactly what we were hoping to get. A
Carrie Worrall: really high quality, just a real in depth look at
Carrie Worrall: our rural branch lines. And I think we've just created
Carrie Worrall: something that is going to last for a really long
Carrie Worrall: time and people will look back on and say, " Isn't
Carrie Worrall: it lovely to hear those voices and those experiences?" So,
Carrie Worrall: it was a really, really lovely project to work on.
Carrie Worrall: Katherine made it really, really easy and yeah, collaborated really
Carrie Worrall: well with us all the time. Always made sure that
Carrie Worrall: we were happy with what was coming through. She was
Carrie Worrall: really flexible. I know there were times when we said, "
Carrie Worrall: Oh, somebody's got in touch with us and they really
Carrie Worrall: want to see this angle. Can we revisit this?" So,
Carrie Worrall: sometimes I think we were a little bit demanding, but
Carrie Worrall: she was just really accommodating the whole way through. And we do
Carrie Worrall: just really couldn't have asked for more. We were so
Carrie Worrall: delighted with the final pieces.
Katherine Kerr: Do you know, it was really great, actually, to have
Katherine Kerr: those things pop up as we went along because we
Katherine Kerr: were building the story as we went, weren't we? And
Katherine Kerr: then the fab thing about the transition that has happened
Katherine Kerr: in people's understanding and willingness to adopt technology, to connect,
Katherine Kerr: meant that, okay, maybe we didn't get this person when
Katherine Kerr: we were on site on location, but we were able
Katherine Kerr: to do remote interviews with people and make that work.
Katherine Kerr: Because the other thing is, even though we were in
Katherine Kerr: this relaxed period, we weren't to know that further lockdowns were
Katherine Kerr: on the way, it was very much, let's go cautiously
Katherine Kerr: and obviously make sure that we were compliant and erring
Katherine Kerr: on the side of caution with every kind of health
Katherine Kerr: and safety consideration in the way we recorded things, where
Katherine Kerr: we recorded things, who we recorded with. I think it
Katherine Kerr: was great that we were able to have those interviews
Katherine Kerr: laterally with people via Zoom, if we needed to put
Katherine Kerr: in last bits that just added to the story. We
Katherine Kerr: probably wouldn't have been able to get those people to
Katherine Kerr: do that previously when they've got busy lives and they're
Katherine Kerr: not naturally using Zoom as a communications medium or happy
Katherine Kerr: to talk over internet. So, I think that the level of
Katherine Kerr: willingness there meant it was possible to be more flexible
Katherine Kerr: from a production end.
Neil Cowling: And how did that process evolve? Did yous start off
Neil Cowling: wit a clear wishlist, Carrie, of where you wanted to
Neil Cowling: go and who you wanted to speak to as this
Neil Cowling: overall narrative?
Carrie Worrall: It did end up actually really full, so many people
Carrie Worrall: on the wishlist, so many places on the wishlist, and
Carrie Worrall: only 30 minutes or so that we were aiming for
Carrie Worrall: for each podcast. So, I can't remember if we ended
Carrie Worrall: up going over in some instances or not. But we
Carrie Worrall: really, really tried to squeeze so much into them, didn't we?
Katherine Kerr: Yeah, they were packed. I think we kind of said
Katherine Kerr: it at the first stages, we went, " What if we
Katherine Kerr: had one day per line and we had a real
Katherine Kerr: time journey?" Because that's what we wanted it to sound
Katherine Kerr: like conceptually as well. We wanted the listener to go
Katherine Kerr: on that journey me. And what if we coordinated everybody
Katherine Kerr: down that line to be waiting at the stop, the
Katherine Kerr: moment we disembarked? And in some cases that actually nearly
Katherine Kerr: happened, but there was a little bit of juggling and
Katherine Kerr: staying in hotels. But not so much. Do you know
Katherine Kerr: what was also really cool about that approach, Carrie, was
Katherine Kerr: at the same time I was down recording around East
Katherine Kerr: Anglia, there was a very well known television production filming
Katherine Kerr: their take on East Anglia. And every time I went
Katherine Kerr: to some of the bigger sites, so of course when
Katherine Kerr: we're reflecting a sense of an area and place, then
Katherine Kerr: you want to go to those big hotspots the tourists
Katherine Kerr: have heard of and know. That's par for the course.
Katherine Kerr: That's what all the big production companies are going to
Katherine Kerr: do. But we weren't doing that. We were there to
Katherine Kerr: tell a story of what it means to live in
Katherine Kerr: a place and meet the people there that you wouldn't hear
Katherine Kerr: of if you didn't live there yourself. Maybe you'd meet
Katherine Kerr: them in passing as a tourist. So, (inaudible) to
Katherine Kerr: give that flavor. I think what we ended up doing was
Katherine Kerr: something really unique from the traditional documentary format where you just
Katherine Kerr: go and tick off that site, that site, that site.
Katherine Kerr: But we couldn't feature everything. And so we tried to
Katherine Kerr: be a little more selective and little unusual in our choices, just
Katherine Kerr: to give listeners something that they might not also have
Katherine Kerr: experienced of these places, and add a bit of depth
Katherine Kerr: to the general understanding. Because we're speaking to a national
Katherine Kerr: audience. We're talking to people who are planning their travel
Katherine Kerr: to the area or have maybe even never been before.
Katherine Kerr: So yeah, I thought that evolved really nicely.
Neil Cowling: The other end of the process then, Katherine, you mentioned it, of the
Neil Cowling: having gathered loads of stuff, and it's very easy with
Neil Cowling: this type of project to go on a lovely journey,
Neil Cowling: meet loads of brilliant people, gather loads of stuff, and
Neil Cowling: then give yourself a real nightmare afterwards of trying to
Neil Cowling: cut that down and trying to turn that into a story.
Neil Cowling: So, how did that balance work? Because you obviously set
Neil Cowling: off knowing what you want people to say, but did
Neil Cowling: you then end up with hours and hours that you had to
Neil Cowling: troll through? Did you have a very disciplined process between
Neil Cowling: you of cutting that down? How did that work?
Katherine Kerr: So we naturally did end up with a lot more
Katherine Kerr: than we could feature in these programs. I was having
Katherine Kerr: this conversation with someone yesterday when I was doing another
Katherine Kerr: location recording. It was their first podcast into and they said, "
Katherine Kerr: We talked for an hour. How are you going to
Katherine Kerr: make that fit to seven minutes?" I hardly needed to
Katherine Kerr: answer because someone I'd worked with previously as an interview
Katherine Kerr: guest came up and said, " You'd be amazed at how it
Katherine Kerr: gets cut down, and you can't figure out what's been
Katherine Kerr: taken out." And it is true because if you think
Katherine Kerr: of natural conversation, that's your first thing, isn't it? Removing
Katherine Kerr: all those thoughtful moments or bits where a bus goes
Katherine Kerr: by and that sort of thing where you stop and
Katherine Kerr: start and grab a coffee, whatever. So, there's all that
Katherine Kerr: stuff. It always comes down to a point at the
Katherine Kerr: end where you're making really hard decisions and that's where
Katherine Kerr: you definitely need more than one person. Especially if you've
Katherine Kerr: been the presenter as well. You definitely need more than one person to
Katherine Kerr: discuss what to leave in and what to take out
Katherine Kerr: because you need to always bear mind the range of
Katherine Kerr: people who are listening and also, not just what their
Katherine Kerr: perception's going to be of an interview in isolation, because
Katherine Kerr: we are montaging all of these pieces, but actually how
Katherine Kerr: it's going to sound as a full show and their
Katherine Kerr: experience of listening. Are they going to be really tired
Katherine Kerr: by the end of it?
Neil Cowling: Carrie, so did you have to be very brutal in
Neil Cowling: that final edit?
Carrie Worrall: No. We also brought in our Community Rail Partnership offices
Carrie Worrall: nearer to the end as well to get their take
Carrie Worrall: on everything. And they helped with that final thing of
Carrie Worrall: did everything fit together well? Have we included everyone? Is
Carrie Worrall: there anything missing? That kind of thing. So, there was
Carrie Worrall: actually quite a lot of people inputting into that. I
Carrie Worrall: remember, I think you actually provided us with transcripts, Katherine,
Carrie Worrall: for them, which actually really helped because you not only
Carrie Worrall: could you then listen, but you could read through as
Carrie Worrall: well, and that sometimes really helped you to see where
Carrie Worrall: you thought, " Well, maybe there's some repetition there, or this
Carrie Worrall: bit goes on a bit too long." So, that was
Carrie Worrall: really, really useful. So, yeah, no, I didn't ever feel
Carrie Worrall: like we had to be too brutal. I think a
Carrie Worrall: lot of the really lovely bits just really stood out.
Neil Cowling: That's worth saying, actually, it's worth explaining the transcript for
Neil Cowling: those who are interested. What we always do with the client
Neil Cowling: is when we have the first cut, we provide that
Neil Cowling: with an automated transcript, just a computer generated transcript, which
Neil Cowling: becomes the feedback document. So, it allows you as a
Neil Cowling: client to, as you say, listen through, read the transcript
Neil Cowling: at the same time, chop out all the bit so that you
Neil Cowling: don't want, highlight things that you want moving around, even
Neil Cowling: highlight things that you think are worth using for promotional
Neil Cowling: activity. And then that's just an iterative process based on
Neil Cowling: the transcript. It's a really, as you say, a really
Neil Cowling: useful tool, Carrie. It means that we are no longer
Neil Cowling: having ... We don't have emails where someone says, " Oh, can
Neil Cowling: you cut out from 15:26 through to 15: 45, please?" We've
Neil Cowling: all got the transcript. We all understand what that means.
Neil Cowling: It's a really handy tool. And then transcripts for the
Neil Cowling: final cut, what we do these days is get a
Neil Cowling: human generated transcript that's 100% accurate that we can then
Neil Cowling: put on the website, which works for SEO. It's a
Neil Cowling: brilliant tool for accessibility, for those who have hearing difficult.
Neil Cowling: So, all that content is there both in written form
Neil Cowling: and in audio form as part of the final product.
Neil Cowling: It's a great tool, isn't it Katherine, from a producer's
Neil Cowling: point of view as well? The transcripts.
Katherine Kerr: Yeah, absolutely. I think it helps, as you say, it
Katherine Kerr: takes out that uncertainty when it comes to time codes and
Katherine Kerr: it actually speeds things up for the clients. So, everyone
Katherine Kerr: has a faster process and you can action feedback more
Katherine Kerr: accurately and quickly. Also that that paper edit you do before
Katherine Kerr: you even, in some cases ... I don't think we did
Katherine Kerr: it with this one actually, just because of the fact
Katherine Kerr: that sometimes I think it's easier to get in, especially
Katherine Kerr: if it's quite fresh in your mind, to get into
Katherine Kerr: an edit not long after and just work through the
Katherine Kerr: conversation you've had and select it that way. But sometimes
Katherine Kerr: if you are coming to something cold as a producer,
Katherine Kerr: actually having a transcript there in front of you helps
Katherine Kerr: you quickly understand the subject and almost do an edit
Katherine Kerr: before you've done the edit.
Neil Cowling: Really important to say, what we always really, really want to encourage from
Neil Cowling: a client point of view is listen at the same
Neil Cowling: time as reading. Things sound so different from the written
Neil Cowling: page and it's very difficult to just edit on paper.
Neil Cowling: We have had clients in the past who clearly haven't
Neil Cowling: listened to the audio and have cut out chunks and
Neil Cowling: it might mean that you end up cutting mid sentence
Neil Cowling: when it doesn't really make any sense. You are getting,
Neil Cowling: as Katherine says, the cadence of the conversation wrong, if
Neil Cowling: you're not listening as well. So, it's really important that
Neil Cowling: they're done in tandem, that you read and listen at
Neil Cowling: the same time. So Carrie, from a promotional point of
Neil Cowling: view, I know that COVID got in the way, a
Neil Cowling: lot, of promotion, it was a real restriction on what
Neil Cowling: you were able to shout about, what you were able
Neil Cowling: to push, particularly during lockdown, because you were essentially not
Neil Cowling: allowed to promote people traveling during that period, weren't you? So when
Neil Cowling: it came to promotion, what sort of tools did you
Neil Cowling: use? How did you shout about it?
Carrie Worrall: Yeah, so during the lockdowns and when we had travel restrictions
Carrie Worrall: and people couldn't travel, our aim was really to put
Carrie Worrall: them out on ... We promoted them through our social media
Carrie Worrall: channels and also through the Community Rail Partnerships' social media
Carrie Worrall: channels. I think we also did some promotional work through
Carrie Worrall: the local media. During the lockdowns, they received over a
Carrie Worrall: thousand listens. So, we were really happy with that because
Carrie Worrall: we couldn't really go all out as much as we
Carrie Worrall: wanted to really shout about them, but they did kind
Carrie Worrall: of achieve the objective that we wanted of keeping up
Carrie Worrall: our visibility during a time when we couldn't push travel
Carrie Worrall: and giving people that escapism while they were in lockdown
Carrie Worrall: and just setting that seed of being able to travel
Carrie Worrall: on those lines at some point in the future. And
Carrie Worrall: the feedback that we got for them was absolutely brilliant.
Carrie Worrall: They went down really, really well and people were getting
Carrie Worrall: in touch with us to say how much they enjoyed
Carrie Worrall: listening to them. And the plan, now that restrictions have
Carrie Worrall: lifted, is that we will be able to put some
Carrie Worrall: paid social media promotion behind them and hopefully increase their
Carrie Worrall: reach even further.
Katherine Kerr: I think that was something that we were bearing in
Katherine Kerr: mind throughout with the content creation as well, that we
Katherine Kerr: wanted these things to be evergreen, to have some kind
Katherine Kerr: of permanence to them. And so we, we deliberately didn't
Katherine Kerr: mention COVID in the recordings. We were making these for
Katherine Kerr: a time when we could be beyond it. And also
Katherine Kerr: so that people could escape that a little bit at
Katherine Kerr: the time of listening.
Neil Cowling: Yeah, you've built up a library of evergreen content there,
Neil Cowling: haven't you? A box set of content. And people may
Neil Cowling: just choose to listen to the branch line that they're
Neil Cowling: interested in. They may be pulled in for all manner
Neil Cowling: of reasons in the next couple of years, and you've
Neil Cowling: got beautiful audio content that they will discover for a
Neil Cowling: long time to come, I'm sure.
Carrie Worrall: Yeah, that's it. I feel like we've got it forever now.
Carrie Worrall: It's just such a lovely way to pay tribute to
Carrie Worrall: those lines and all the work that people do on them.
Neil Cowling: So, to finish off then, Carrie, from your point of
Neil Cowling: view, any tips or insights that you would give somebody
Neil Cowling: who was looking to do the same in your position?
Neil Cowling: What have you learned along the way?
Katherine Kerr: Yeah, I think working with a professional production company was
Katherine Kerr: just fantastic for us and it meant that we got
Katherine Kerr: really high quality content. If we'd have tried to do
Katherine Kerr: something like that ourselves, it's not something we could have
Katherine Kerr: begun to try and achieve. As a result of that,
Katherine Kerr: we've got a really brilliant product. We can use it
Katherine Kerr: for a long time now to keep promoting those lines.
Katherine Kerr: I would just really recommend everyone to give it a go.
Katherine Kerr: When we looked at doing it, we thought it would
Katherine Kerr: be a bit of an experiment, really, to see how
Katherine Kerr: it would go down. But it did really pay off
Katherine Kerr: and the feedback was absolutely fantastic. So, I think we
Katherine Kerr: know now now that we have got an audience out there
Katherine Kerr: who are receptive to our podcast and who do want
Katherine Kerr: to hear about the railway in the region, and that's
Katherine Kerr: given us now the impetus to start looking at doing
Katherine Kerr: some different podcasts, some more behind the scenes of the
Katherine Kerr: railway type ones. So yeah, it has proved to be
Katherine Kerr: a really good medium for us. It's something additional that
Katherine Kerr: we can add into our communications mix and it's just
Katherine Kerr: another format, one that's growing in popularity. So, I'm really
Katherine Kerr: pleased that we took the chance on it and yeah,
Katherine Kerr: it paid off for us.
Neil Cowling: Fantastic. And Katherine, from your point of view, projects that
Neil Cowling: are trying to illustrate a sense of place, meet characters,
Neil Cowling: tell stories. From a producer's point of view, what insight
Neil Cowling: can you bring?
Katherine Kerr: There was so much insight on this project just because of
Katherine Kerr: the circumstances we were working in. I'd say just let
Katherine Kerr: people talk in the place that they're most passionate, the
Katherine Kerr: places they live, and you will get the most compelling stories.
Neil Cowling: Brilliant. Thank you both very much, indeed. For anyone who's
Neil Cowling: interested, it's called Lives on the Lines. It's available on
Neil Cowling: all podcast platforms. It's a podcast full of characters, it's
Neil Cowling: passionately produced, passionately presented as you can hear, and it
Neil Cowling: is from a train company and you may not have expected
Neil Cowling: that in the first place. So, thank you very much
Neil Cowling: to Carrie Worrall, PR consultant on behalf of Greater Anglia
Neil Cowling: Media Team. To Katherine Kerr, senior producer and presenter from
Neil Cowling: Fresh Air. And if you'd like to find out how
Neil Cowling: you can make great podcasts for your brand or business,
Neil Cowling: you can find us at freshairproduction. co. uk. In the
Neil Cowling: meantime, I'm Neil Cowling. Thank you very much for listening.
Speaker 5: Fresh Air.