Kia: Hey, guys. It's Kia. We've been talking about how to hyper-
Kia: focus your finances in order to get a little bit
Kia: richer, but sometimes life just gets in the way. So
Kia: this episode I'm talking about the impact physical and mental
Kia: illnesses can have on our money. Joining me is Corrine
Kia: Vern, a PR manager at Legal & General. Corrine joined Legal &
Kia: General this year, but before this, she worked at our
Kia: company who reviewed and rated financial products where her work
Kia: involved promoting insurance protection. Corrine is 33 and one awful
Kia: day last year, she suddenly went numb from the waist
Kia: down. Following this, she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis and
Kia: has spent the last year adjusting to some big changes
Kia: in terms of her personal life, work life, and finances.
Kia: Corinne's done an excellent job adapting to all of this,
Kia: and she's joining me today to talk through her story,
Kia: how this has impacted her life, and what she'd do
Kia: differently if she could go back. So Corinne, to kick
Kia: things off, please could you talk me through the story
Kia: of your diagnosis?
Corrine Vern: Yeah, I can. One day I was having brunch with
Corrine Vern: the girls, time of my life, and the next day,
Corrine Vern: literally overnight, I woke up and I was completely numb
Corrine Vern: from the waist down-
Kia: Oh, wow.
Corrine Vern: ... both legs. It's like straightaway was like, " That's not
Corrine Vern: quite normal," and it was like pins and needles. My
Corrine Vern: feet felt dead. So as soon as I could, I
Corrine Vern: got hold of my GP and I was really, really
Corrine Vern: lucky that I had access to private healthcare through work.
Corrine Vern: I was really lucky I got diagnosed very, very quickly.
Corrine Vern: It was a long, hard process. You find out what's
Corrine Vern: wrong and it feels like a bit of a journey
Corrine Vern: and you don't really know what's going on. And then
Corrine Vern: you get your diagnosis and you sit in the office
Corrine Vern: and they go, " It's multiple sclerosis." He looked at me
Corrine Vern: really odd because I was like, " Okay, fine," because I was expecting it.
Kia: Okay.
Corrine Vern: And then I got in the car and my mum
Corrine Vern: was there luckily and she was like, "Are you okay?" I was like, "No."
Kia: No, no. I mean...
Corrine Vern: No, I'm not. Because that's where the journey really starts
Corrine Vern: and that's when the reality of the situation because you're
Corrine Vern: still kind of hoping that maybe I'm being dramatic. So
Corrine Vern: that was kind of the start of all the changes
Corrine Vern: was when I got that diagnosis and I realized quite
Corrine Vern: quickly how much of an effect, not just feeling physically
Corrine Vern: unwell, but the mental strain of having a diagnosis of
Corrine Vern: an incurable disease. Like I've been sick, but I've never
Corrine Vern: been sick to be told that you're not going to
Corrine Vern: get better from, like this is with you for life.
Corrine Vern: So it was dealing with the implications of that is
Corrine Vern: kind of what came next and was the fun part,
Corrine Vern: so to speak. The challenging part, challenging.
Kia: The challenging part. So I can imagine that was a
Kia: massive worry that you had to undertake. But how did
Kia: this impact you financially? Were there changes that you had
Kia: to make to your finances?
Corrine Vern: Yeah. So it's one of those ones like you deal
Corrine Vern: with the health. At this point, I'm still very much
Corrine Vern: going through the motions of being numb from the waist
Corrine Vern: down. It lasted about sort of I think in total
Corrine Vern: I had the numbness and the pain like for six
Corrine Vern: months, but it was that impact then that it had
Corrine Vern: on work. So I'd worked really hard throughout my 20s
Corrine Vern: to get to the point that I was in my career.
Corrine Vern: I'd gone from like an internship earning like no money,
Corrine Vern: all the way through to earning, like I was comfortable.
Corrine Vern: I had a comfortable salary. I was starting to look
Corrine Vern: at whether or not I wanted to buy a property,
Corrine Vern: like start putting savings away and all of that. I
Corrine Vern: just felt like I'd hit a brick wall and that
Corrine Vern: whole perspective of just like I always felt like I
Corrine Vern: was soaring and then, all of a sudden, I was like-
Kia: Oh, no, I can imagine.
Corrine Vern: ... coming back down to earth with like a big
Corrine Vern: bang, right? And financially, I had some savings, but I
Corrine Vern: was like living my best life so I was enjoying
Corrine Vern: the disposable income that I had. So I had some
Corrine Vern: money saved. I had like the bog standard three months
Corrine Vern: of salary, like monthly salary saved up. But I very
Corrine Vern: quickly realized I'm not well. I don't know how long
Corrine Vern: I'm going to be unwell for. I don't know what
Corrine Vern: recovery looks like. I'm very fortunate that I did get
Corrine Vern: the function back in my lower body and I went
Corrine Vern: into remission quite well, but I could have had really
Corrine Vern: lasting effects and disability and at some points I was
Corrine Vern: walking with a stick. That could have been something that
Corrine Vern: I carried on and continued to do. So when it
Corrine Vern: came to work, I just didn't know what that looked
Corrine Vern: like, whether I needed to take time off. I also
Corrine Vern: had to have a real sit- down with myself and
Corrine Vern: can I continue to do the job that I'm doing?
Corrine Vern: Because one of the things that you get with multiple
Corrine Vern: sclerosis is fatigue, which comes with it brain fog, and
Corrine Vern: it just meant that I was really suffering at work.
Corrine Vern: I couldn't find words in meetings and things like that.
Corrine Vern: So where I'd gone from, well, I mean I thought
Corrine Vern: I was all right in my job before and, all of
Corrine Vern: a sudden, I wasn't able to do the things that
Corrine Vern: I could do before. The disease was new to me
Corrine Vern: so I didn't know whether this was a permanent feature
Corrine Vern: or whether that was just how I was going to
Corrine Vern: be functioning moving forward. Luckily, it sort of eased and
Corrine Vern: the brain fog and I still get fatigue, but it
Corrine Vern: comes in waves. So I was worried that I wouldn't
Corrine Vern: have an income from work, and I was worried that
Corrine Vern: if I went on sick, if it was long- term,
Corrine Vern: whether I could live off statutory sick pay or how
Corrine Vern: far my sick pay would stretch from work. But I
Corrine Vern: was really lucky at the time that I worked for
Corrine Vern: a really, really good company that made some adjustments for
Corrine Vern: me that helped me work and keep the salary. And
Corrine Vern: I was also extremely lucky with work that as part
Corrine Vern: of the workplace benefits, I had a critical illness cover,
Corrine Vern: which is a type of insurance against things like cancer
Corrine Vern: and multiple sclerosis is one of the critical illnesses that
Corrine Vern: is covered. So I got a lump payment from them.
Kia: That's really good. Really useful, I'm sure.
Corrine Vern: Yeah, and I think what that did was that kind
Corrine Vern: of financial worry and that fear of the unknown of
Corrine Vern: what that future looked like, it gave me a really
Corrine Vern: good buffer so that I could continue to work and
Corrine Vern: continue to forge that career path once I felt better.
Corrine Vern: But in an ideal situation because I had to work
Corrine Vern: because I didn't have anything else other than that workplace
Corrine Vern: benefit, I didn't have income protection so that I could
Corrine Vern: have something where I could take six months off work
Corrine Vern: and realistically that's what I should have done, because I
Corrine Vern: had the physical side of things and then the mental
Corrine Vern: health side of things that came with the diagnosis, not
Corrine Vern: just the fatigue, but also I was not in a
Corrine Vern: great place mentally because my whole world had just been
Corrine Vern: turned upside down. So I had some things in place.
Corrine Vern: I had an extremely good employer that sort of really
Corrine Vern: helped, and the critical illness really helped. But realistically, I
Corrine Vern: wish I'd had a bit more there to sort of
Corrine Vern: help and support me, take the time that I needed
Corrine Vern: to sort of recover and work out what my next
Corrine Vern: steps were going to be as well.
Kia: So Corinne, I just want to ask you, what were
Kia: you doing for work before you had your diagnosis, and how
Kia: was that impacted after you received your diagnosis?
Corrine Vern: So I just started working in financial services and I'd been
Corrine Vern: with the company for four years- ish. And I was
Corrine Vern: like getting to that point where I was starting to
Corrine Vern: look at what the next opportunities were going to be.
Corrine Vern: I was really, really career- minded and focused on sort
Corrine Vern: of climbing that career ladder as well. And then you
Corrine Vern: get hit with that diagnosis and, all of a sudden,
Corrine Vern: that five- year plan is like ripped up. At some
Corrine Vern: points I thought that I'd have to leave my job
Corrine Vern: completely, change career, do something part- time, do something easier
Corrine Vern: just so that I could focus on my health, physical
Corrine Vern: and mental health. And when I went to work and
Corrine Vern: they were really supportive and I was able to access
Corrine Vern: the critical illness cover and sort of have that money
Corrine Vern: and that backing, it actually gave me the confidence to
Corrine Vern: keep going full steam ahead. So let's stick to the five-
Corrine Vern: year plan that I had for my career. I felt
Corrine Vern: more financially secure because I thought if it all goes
Corrine Vern: wrong when I do need to quit or I do
Corrine Vern: need to go or I need to take a job
Corrine Vern: that's less money, I kind of knew that I had
Corrine Vern: a bit of like a financial buffer there that I
Corrine Vern: wouldn't have had without the critical illness. And I started
Corrine Vern: looking for jobs and I think this is where my
Corrine Vern: outlook changed a little bit. I'd sort of chased a
Corrine Vern: salary and sort of gravitas and things like that with
Corrine Vern: the jobs that I'd gone for before, quite normal things.
Corrine Vern: But I wanted something that served with a bit more
Corrine Vern: purpose and that resonated with me. That's where I saw
Corrine Vern: the job with Legal & General PR manager. I was like,
Corrine Vern: tick, that's what I do. It's in financial services, tick.
Corrine Vern: And then the part that I really liked was it
Corrine Vern: was specifically working with protection insurance. And I felt so
Corrine Vern: passionately through my experience and being able to access the
Corrine Vern: cover that I had and also passionate about the fact
Corrine Vern: that I could have had way more cover in place.
Corrine Vern: I could have provided myself so much more support had
Corrine Vern: I understood that those products were for me at that
Corrine Vern: age in my 20s. It wasn't just life insurance and
Corrine Vern: it's not just about like the worst, worst thing happening,
Corrine Vern: but also supporting your lifestyle as you go along. The
Corrine Vern: role really resonated with me and I was like, I
Corrine Vern: absolutely want to do something because I feel like I've
Corrine Vern: got a bit of a purpose. I'm on a bit
Corrine Vern: of a soapbox with this.
Kia: Well, I think that's amazing. I think, like you said, it's
Kia: something that young people should know about. It isn't covered
Kia: very often. So off the back of that then, what
Kia: took you by surprise? What's the thing that you don't
Kia: realize until you're in this type of situation?
Corrine Vern: I never thought that it would happen to me. And it
Corrine Vern: sounds silly because my mom's got MS, but it's not
Corrine Vern: hereditary. So really, I didn't think it was going to happen to
Corrine Vern: me, like-
Kia: Yeah, of course.
Corrine Vern: ... and you think that sickness and these kinds of
Corrine Vern: things are for people that are like older than you,
Corrine Vern: right? I was building my life. I wasn't expecting it
Corrine Vern: to be shattered overnight. I'd gone through my 20s thinking
Corrine Vern: I was invincible, having a great time with all my
Corrine Vern: friends, socializing, climbing the career ladder, doing everything that you're
Corrine Vern: meant to do during those years. And I didn't think
Corrine Vern: that I would get to like 30, 31 and that would
Corrine Vern: be, potentially could be the end of that kind of
Corrine Vern: climb. And I hadn't and I don't know many people
Corrine Vern: that do, especially when I talk to my friends. They
Corrine Vern: don't think about what they would do if they got
Corrine Vern: unwell or they weren't well enough to work. And it's
Corrine Vern: not a comfortable thing to think about, the unexpected and
Corrine Vern: planning for the worst. But me, personally, I wish I
Corrine Vern: had given that more thought. I was lucky, but if
Corrine Vern: it had happened at any other point, or I was working
Corrine Vern: for a different employer, the outcome could have been really,
Corrine Vern: really different for me and I could have been really,
Corrine Vern: really stuck. And having three months' salary saved up is
Corrine Vern: great, but it doesn't stretch very far when you've got
Corrine Vern: bills and rent and also just like life to pay
Corrine Vern: for as well.
Kia: That's the thing. I think there's so many things to
Kia: consider, like you've mentioned, that it's almost hard, as you
Kia: said, to see yourself in that situation.
Corrine Vern: Yeah, you can't. Until you're in it, you can't. But
Corrine Vern: I think that's the challenge you have to do with
Corrine Vern: yourself, right? I think you do have to take that
Corrine Vern: time to take stock and just say, " Okay, carpet gets
Corrine Vern: pulled out from underneath me. What is my plan? What
Corrine Vern: do I have in place to protect the lifestyle that
Corrine Vern: I have today?" And that accommodates and accounts for everything,
Corrine Vern: not just financially, but like your mental health, your physical
Corrine Vern: health. Like what do you have in place and what
Corrine Vern: support systems do you have in place today that can support
Corrine Vern: you if the worst happens? So start building some good
Corrine Vern: habits with like putting some money away and take stock
Corrine Vern: of that. Don't just save the three months' salary and
Corrine Vern: leave it-
Kia: Yes.
Corrine Vern: ... because, as well, I'd based it on three months'
Corrine Vern: salary before I'd had like pay rises and things like
Corrine Vern: that. So my lifestyle had moved on, but my savings
Corrine Vern: were sort of stuck. So I was like, " That's done. I've got
Corrine Vern: this little pocket. I can carry on." And I never
Corrine Vern: took stock, and I never did things to continue to
Corrine Vern: protect the life and the lifestyle that I was building. And
Corrine Vern: you do it in the hope that you'll never have
Corrine Vern: to use it. But I think if you can get
Corrine Vern: these really good habits to think in those terms and
Corrine Vern: while things are up, don't wait until like I did
Corrine Vern: where you are in that crisis point, and then start
Corrine Vern: thinking about these things because it is a little bit too late.
Corrine Vern: So do it while things are good, and just like
Corrine Vern: explore what products could help you protect your income and
Corrine Vern: protect your lifestyle as well.
Kia: So for you, you're in your early 30s and when
Kia: you're young, it's really hard, like you said, to see
Kia: yourself in any situation and to think that that could
Kia: happen to you. So how would you like to see
Kia: people's mindsets change here? Because I know your current line
Kia: of work lines up with this.
Corrine Vern: Most people are really, really comfortable with insuring your things.
Corrine Vern: Like you get a phone, you have insurance. Obviously legal
Corrine Vern: requirement to have insurance. We are so comfortable with insuring
Corrine Vern: things, it's second nature. But for some reason when it
Corrine Vern: comes to ourselves, our body, our health, it's boring and
Corrine Vern: we don't want to talk about it. I don't know
Corrine Vern: whether or not, especially when you talk about like life
Corrine Vern: insurance, obviously that's like the very worst and you don't
Corrine Vern: want to talk about that because it feels morbid. But
Corrine Vern: it's like what we were saying earlier about protecting the
Corrine Vern: lifestyle that you're building and the life that you're building
Corrine Vern: out for yourself. So I'd like to see that change.
Corrine Vern: I'd like to see more conversation about how we protect
Corrine Vern: ourselves and our lives against the unexpected happening. And a
Corrine Vern: lot of these products when you're younger are a bit
Corrine Vern: cheaper as well because sort of the risks are lower.
Corrine Vern: I mean, there'll always be like one person like me
Corrine Vern: that's like, " It happened to me, pick me." But no,
Corrine Vern: I just really want that mindset to change, that it's
Corrine Vern: not too expensive, it's not too difficult to have these
Corrine Vern: conversations, and we are worth protecting and our lives are
Corrine Vern: worth protecting.
Kia: Like you said, that is very key. We insure our
Kia: products, but ourselves, it's very important so I think that's
Kia: a great point. But I want to run off this
Kia: episode, though, the way that I always do. So I'm
Kia: going to ask you, what are three tips that you'd give
Kia: to our listeners to help them get a little bit richer?
Corrine Vern: I think start habits, good financial habits early, even when
Corrine Vern: you're not earning a huge amount, start making savings, putting
Corrine Vern: things away, and planning for the unexpected. Not just like
Corrine Vern: rainy day funds, but actually worst case scenario planning as
Corrine Vern: well. And also look into insuring yourself in keeping your
Corrine Vern: lifestyle going and look into things like income protection and
Corrine Vern: critical illness cover. And I was really lucky that I
Corrine Vern: had some workplace benefits, but check, really do look. It's
Corrine Vern: great to have pizzas every Friday, it's great to finish
Corrine Vern: at four o'clock every Friday, but actually look at the
Corrine Vern: more boring benefits. Have a look at your pension, have
Corrine Vern: a look at sort of what life insurance is involved
Corrine Vern: and also if there are any other benefits that come
Corrine Vern: with that. Because a lot of the time you'll have
Corrine Vern: access to things like counseling, again, like private diagnostics and
Corrine Vern: private GPs and things. Have a look at like that
Corrine Vern: boring paperwork pack that you get when you start a
Corrine Vern: new job and you're really excited and just take stock of
Corrine Vern: what you've got in place and what might be missing
Corrine Vern: from that as well. So you're not just relying on
Corrine Vern: the workplace benefits, but what can you do and what
Corrine Vern: products can you access on a personal level as well.
Corrine Vern: So just be mindful of all of your financial products,
Corrine Vern: I think, is key from early on, so you build
Corrine Vern: those habits.
Kia: Early on, that habit. That's a key point. Corinne, thank you so much for sharing
Kia: your story. It's been very Insightful when you've shared some amazing
Kia: tips so thank you so much. Whether you are in
Kia: a similar position to Corinne or not, I hope that
Kia: this episode resonated with you. If it did, then please
Kia: be sure to follow the podcast, leave us a review
Kia: and tell others who you think would be interested. Next
Kia: week, I'll be looking at student loans, the different types,
Kia: how they can affect your finances and if you should
Kia: repay them. See you then.