1 00:00:40,869 --> 00:00:45,840 Robert: September 22nd, 2024. Hi, everybody. Robert, the producer here. 2 00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:49,040 Robert: As you know, Suze and KT are on their way 3 00:00:49,049 --> 00:00:52,880 Robert: back from Spain, but we do have something kind of 4 00:00:52,889 --> 00:00:55,740 Robert: new for you today. What we're gonna do is uh 5 00:00:55,750 --> 00:00:59,330 Robert: something we in the podcast business call a feed drop. 6 00:01:00,139 --> 00:01:03,919 Robert: Last Fall. Suze made an appearance on the CNN TV 7 00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:07,129 Robert: show Who's talking to Chris Wallace. It was a really 8 00:01:07,139 --> 00:01:10,488 Robert: great conversation. In fact, I remember sitting in the green 9 00:01:10,500 --> 00:01:13,720 Robert: room with KT while this was taped because it was 10 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:16,000 Robert: taped in New York. And I have to tell you 11 00:01:16,010 --> 00:01:18,759 Robert: not only did Susie knock it out of the park, 12 00:01:19,059 --> 00:01:21,959 Robert: but it was so heartwarming for me to watch KT 13 00:01:21,970 --> 00:01:24,199 Robert: beaming with love and pride 14 00:01:24,519 --> 00:01:28,120 Robert: as she watched Suze have this conversation with Chris Wallace. 15 00:01:28,129 --> 00:01:32,000 Robert: So Suze and KT will be back with another ask, 16 00:01:32,010 --> 00:01:36,419 Robert: Suze and KT anything episode this Thursday. But for now, 17 00:01:36,709 --> 00:01:38,379 Robert: here's Susie and Chris Wallace 18 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,970 Suze: People first. Then money, then things. 19 00:01:42,980 --> 00:01:45,610 Chris Wallace: Taking personal finance personally. 20 00:01:45,629 --> 00:01:49,809 Suze: There is one main obstacle in your path to financial 21 00:01:49,819 --> 00:01:51,930 Suze: freedom and that is you. 22 00:01:51,940 --> 00:01:55,050 Chris Wallace: Suze Orman has made it her life's work to help 23 00:01:55,059 --> 00:01:56,889 Chris Wallace: you make smart money moves. 24 00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:00,250 Suze: You have made enough mistakes in your financial life. 25 00:02:00,260 --> 00:02:03,440 Chris Wallace: Over the years, building up a multi million dollar brand 26 00:02:03,449 --> 00:02:05,720 Chris Wallace: of no nonsense, financial counseling. 27 00:02:08,020 --> 00:02:08,839 Suze: You are not allowed 28 00:02:08,955 --> 00:02:11,744 Suze: to buy a Mercedes until you pay off your credit cards. 29 00:02:11,755 --> 00:02:16,154 Chris Wallace: Her tough love advice, especially valuable when the country's economy 30 00:02:16,163 --> 00:02:17,535 Chris Wallace: is in crisis. 31 00:02:17,554 --> 00:02:20,994 Oprah: Suze Orman, a trusted voice to billions who are really 32 00:02:21,005 --> 00:02:22,054 Oprah: suffering right now. 33 00:02:22,065 --> 00:02:25,853 Chris Wallace: Now we talk with the pocketbook expert about how America 34 00:02:25,865 --> 00:02:27,005 Chris Wallace: is really doing. 35 00:02:27,065 --> 00:02:28,964 Suze: I do think the government overdid it. 36 00:02:28,985 --> 00:02:32,774 Chris Wallace: How speaking the truth led her to live her truth. 37 00:02:32,785 --> 00:02:36,315 Suze: I'm not afraid to tell anybody who I am. 38 00:02:36,383 --> 00:02:38,255 Chris Wallace: And her surprising passion 39 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,580 Chris Wallace: that money can't buy 40 00:02:45,538 --> 00:02:48,740 Chris Wallace: Suze Orman. Welcome. I have been looking forward to getting 41 00:02:48,750 --> 00:02:50,410 Chris Wallace: the chance to sit down and talk with you. 42 00:02:50,860 --> 00:02:54,288 Suze: Here I am, sir. Are you ready for me? 43 00:02:54,300 --> 00:03:00,059 Chris Wallace: I will see. Uh let's start with where Americans are 44 00:03:00,070 --> 00:03:05,160 Chris Wallace: right now. Last summer, our credit card debt uh reached 45 00:03:05,169 --> 00:03:08,639 Chris Wallace: a trillion dollars for the first time ever. Household debt 46 00:03:08,649 --> 00:03:12,008 Chris Wallace: is also at record levels and interest rates that we 47 00:03:12,020 --> 00:03:13,690 Chris Wallace: pay on that debt keep rising. 48 00:03:13,940 --> 00:03:18,160 Chris Wallace: So how bad is our personal financial picture? 49 00:03:18,410 --> 00:03:23,360 Suze: What if I were to tell you that 75% of 50 00:03:23,369 --> 00:03:29,910 Suze: the people in the United States don't have $400 to 51 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:35,029 Suze: their name in case of an emergency. And that is true. 52 00:03:35,779 --> 00:03:41,660 Suze: So, how bad is that? That's really, really bad. And 53 00:03:41,669 --> 00:03:44,770 Suze: so even though I know everybody says the stock market 54 00:03:44,779 --> 00:03:47,600 Suze: is doing great, although some days it's not that the 55 00:03:47,610 --> 00:03:51,720 Suze: economy we're chugging along here, we have inflation. OK. 56 00:03:52,259 --> 00:03:58,339 Suze: On the whole, ordinary human beings in America today are 57 00:03:58,639 --> 00:04:02,949 Suze: living paycheck to paycheck and they're not doing well at all. 58 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:03,580 Suze: In my opinion. 59 00:04:03,779 --> 00:04:06,309 Chris Wallace: You say that we're in a, and this is your phrase, 60 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,360 Chris Wallace: a financial pandemic. What do you mean by that? 61 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:13,320 Suze: Well, you know, we're in a pandemic in that there 62 00:04:13,330 --> 00:04:17,890 Suze: isn't a financial vaccine to cure this. And so the 63 00:04:17,899 --> 00:04:20,040 Suze: only way that it could be cured 64 00:04:20,368 --> 00:04:23,568 Suze: is for people to realize the only way that they 65 00:04:23,579 --> 00:04:27,988 Suze: can keep going out, keep socializing, keep doing the things, 66 00:04:27,998 --> 00:04:30,628 Suze: being able to buy a home, whatever it may be, 67 00:04:31,299 --> 00:04:33,880 Suze: they have to count on themselves. The government's not gonna 68 00:04:33,890 --> 00:04:36,980 Suze: save them, the economy is not gonna save them. They're 69 00:04:36,988 --> 00:04:41,279 Suze: gonna have to be their own financial vaccine, so to speak. 70 00:04:41,410 --> 00:04:43,618 Chris Wallace: So I wanna pick up on, on what you said, 71 00:04:43,630 --> 00:04:46,920 Chris Wallace: which is that the average American 75% of Americans don't 72 00:04:46,928 --> 00:04:49,880 Chris Wallace: have $400 in savings. 73 00:04:50,494 --> 00:04:56,234 Chris Wallace: You have helped start a business called Secure Save, where 74 00:04:56,244 --> 00:05:01,345 Chris Wallace: you work with, with corporations to help their employees set 75 00:05:01,355 --> 00:05:04,875 Chris Wallace: up uh emergency savings accounts explain how that works. 76 00:05:04,885 --> 00:05:08,394 Suze: So what is the goal of money. Do you know 77 00:05:08,404 --> 00:05:09,674 Suze: the answer to that question? 78 00:05:10,809 --> 00:05:11,929 Chris Wallace: Security? 79 00:05:11,959 --> 00:05:13,339 Suze: Oh, you're so smart. 80 00:05:13,350 --> 00:05:13,519 Chris Wallace: Is that true? 81 00:05:13,709 --> 00:05:16,769 Suze: it's true. Right. So if the goal of money is 82 00:05:16,779 --> 00:05:19,289 Suze: for you to be secure and the only way to 83 00:05:19,299 --> 00:05:23,549 Suze: be secure is by saving, hence for secure save. I 84 00:05:23,559 --> 00:05:27,539 Suze: thought I know what if I formed a company with 85 00:05:27,549 --> 00:05:36,029 Suze: two other people where an employer paid their employees to save. However, 86 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,039 Suze: the employee would be able to access the money any 87 00:05:39,049 --> 00:05:39,988 Suze: time they wanted. 88 00:05:40,359 --> 00:05:42,940 Suze: They buy a push of a button with an app. 89 00:05:42,950 --> 00:05:45,980 Suze: If they left the company, it would be their money. 90 00:05:45,988 --> 00:05:49,579 Suze: If they died, they left it to a beneficiary. So 91 00:05:49,589 --> 00:05:53,808 Suze: secure save works very, very simply, which is we hook 92 00:05:53,820 --> 00:05:57,220 Suze: into the payroll system of the corporation. The employee, 93 00:05:57,464 --> 00:06:00,424 Suze: gets an email saying, would you like a certain amount 94 00:06:00,434 --> 00:06:03,375 Suze: of money taken out of your paycheck every week? 95 00:06:03,535 --> 00:06:04,974 Chris Wallace: So you don't even see it. You know, it just goes 96 00:06:05,075 --> 00:06:06,195 Chris Wallace: straight into the savings. 97 00:06:06,204 --> 00:06:11,554 Suze: Most people do $25 a paycheck. Most employers match 3 98 00:06:11,565 --> 00:06:14,075 Suze: to $5 per paycheck. 99 00:06:14,428 --> 00:06:18,070 Suze: So the employee all of a sudden is making 12% 100 00:06:18,079 --> 00:06:22,429 Suze: on their money. The accounts are FDIC insured and within 101 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,410 Suze: a year period of time they have about $1000. Why? 102 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:30,359 Suze: Because what we're seeing with all the corporations now that 103 00:06:30,369 --> 00:06:33,799 Suze: are doing it. And major corporations finally, Chris 104 00:06:34,029 --> 00:06:37,678 Chris Wallace: signed up with us. Well, there, we just signed up 105 00:06:37,690 --> 00:06:41,410 Chris Wallace: a major health company that I can't name yet because 106 00:06:41,420 --> 00:06:45,369 Chris Wallace: they haven't gone public with it, but they have 50,000 107 00:06:45,380 --> 00:06:53,489 Chris Wallace: employees within one week, almost 30,000 of those employees opted in. 108 00:06:54,269 --> 00:06:58,790 Suze: So we have a 60% adoption rate that says that 109 00:06:58,799 --> 00:07:03,839 Suze: the employee wants this and we have almost a 90% 110 00:07:03,859 --> 00:07:05,649 Suze: continuation rate. 111 00:07:05,660 --> 00:07:07,880 Chris Wallace: A couple of questions I got from here, Suze, you 112 00:07:07,890 --> 00:07:12,059 Chris Wallace: said that 75%. I'm stunned by this figure. Oo of 113 00:07:12,070 --> 00:07:14,609 Chris Wallace: Americans only have $400 114 00:07:14,980 --> 00:07:18,299 Chris Wallace: in case of emergency. How much do you need in 115 00:07:18,309 --> 00:07:21,250 Chris Wallace: terms of emergency? What would you say to the average 116 00:07:21,260 --> 00:07:24,399 Chris Wallace: person if you're going to have an emergency savings account? 117 00:07:24,410 --> 00:07:25,410 Chris Wallace: How much do you need in there? 118 00:07:25,559 --> 00:07:29,089 Suze: So, an emergency savings account is what secure save is 119 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:32,910 Suze: doing where we don't want you to have $10,000 in there. 120 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:34,600 Suze: We just want you to get in the habit 121 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,059 Suze: of saving and liking it where you have 1000 or 122 00:07:38,070 --> 00:07:43,040 Suze: $2000 there once you have that and now you're feeling 123 00:07:43,049 --> 00:07:45,589 Suze: more secure, you're apt to put more money in a 124 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,690 Suze: retirement account and then into your must pay account, which 125 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:52,089 Suze: I would like to have 8 to 12 months of 126 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:55,980 Suze: a must pay account. What's the difference? You know, if 127 00:07:55,989 --> 00:07:57,059 Suze: you lose your job, 128 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,700 Suze: if you're in an accident, if something like that happens, 129 00:08:00,709 --> 00:08:03,700 Suze: these are bills you must pay. 130 00:08:03,730 --> 00:08:07,690 Chris Wallace: You are and have been for decades, a big deal 131 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:12,160 Chris Wallace: in the world of personal financial advice. Uh You've written 132 00:08:12,170 --> 00:08:16,040 Chris Wallace: 10 New York Times best sellers. You've had a series 133 00:08:16,049 --> 00:08:20,019 Chris Wallace: of TV shows and specials for more than 20 years. 134 00:08:20,630 --> 00:08:23,489 Chris Wallace: Am I right? That it's not so much that you 135 00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:28,679 Chris Wallace: have had some revolutionary idea, but it's rather the fervor 136 00:08:28,690 --> 00:08:33,929 Chris Wallace: of your message about personal financial responsibility and the practicality 137 00:08:33,940 --> 00:08:35,690 Chris Wallace: of your ideas about how to achieve it. 138 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:39,630 Suze: It's actually more than that, in my opinion. I don't 139 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:40,950 Suze: look like you. 140 00:08:41,049 --> 00:08:47,429 Suze: Typical financial advisor never wore pinstripe suits, never wore a suit. 141 00:08:47,439 --> 00:08:51,789 Suze: Like my outfits have always been leather and cowboy boots 142 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:52,948 Suze: and all of these things. 143 00:08:53,179 --> 00:08:56,109 Chris Wallace: I'm not going to run a financial advisor for their wardrobe. 144 00:08:56,119 --> 00:08:59,328 Suze: No, but you're going to a financial advisor, especially if 145 00:08:59,338 --> 00:09:01,309 Suze: you're a woman that you can relate to 146 00:09:01,929 --> 00:09:06,848 Suze: so they can relate to me because I speak Suze 147 00:09:06,859 --> 00:09:10,849 Suze: speak a language that they can relate to. I never 148 00:09:10,859 --> 00:09:14,309 Suze: make them feel bad if they don't understand something. And 149 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,669 Suze: when they see me, they see hope if Suze can 150 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:19,869 Suze: do it. Starting at the age of 30 151 00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:23,829 Suze: I can do it. Look at her, look at me. 152 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,890 Suze: She didn't grow up with money. All the excuses that 153 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:30,108 Suze: people give themselves, I take away. 154 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,570 Chris Wallace: Take a look at some of your greatest hits over 155 00:09:33,580 --> 00:09:37,729 Chris Wallace: the years. Anybody who's ever watched a PBS Pledge Week 156 00:09:37,739 --> 00:09:41,770 Chris Wallace: has seen your ultimate retirement guide. Here's a clip. 157 00:09:42,869 --> 00:09:47,919 Suze: It should be mandatory that if you own a home, 158 00:09:48,539 --> 00:09:53,750 Suze: that you own it outright by the time you retire 159 00:09:54,799 --> 00:09:59,939 Suze: if you do not and you plan especially to stay there. 160 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,780 Suze: You are making one of the biggest mistakes in my 161 00:10:04,789 --> 00:10:07,340 Suze: ultimate retirement play book. 162 00:10:08,239 --> 00:10:10,030 Chris Wallace: All right, let me ask a question and don't make 163 00:10:10,039 --> 00:10:13,630 Chris Wallace: me feel stupid. You said you won't, why? Even if 164 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,590 Chris Wallace: you're retired, wouldn't you wanna keep some mortgage so you 165 00:10:16,599 --> 00:10:19,929 Chris Wallace: can get the wait, let me get it out so 166 00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:21,669 Chris Wallace: you can get the tax deduction. 167 00:10:21,909 --> 00:10:24,390 Suze: Here's what most people don't understand. 168 00:10:24,750 --> 00:10:28,940 Suze: The bank knows the mortgage companies know that maybe you'll 169 00:10:28,950 --> 00:10:32,229 Suze: keep your house seven years. So the greatest tax write 170 00:10:32,239 --> 00:10:36,650 Suze: offs for that home mortgage is within the first seven 171 00:10:36,659 --> 00:10:39,239 Suze: or 10 years. Do you know that if you have 172 00:10:39,250 --> 00:10:41,510 Suze: a 30 year mortgage? Let's just say it was for 173 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:42,880 Suze: $200,000 174 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:49,039 Suze: that in the 1st 20 years you've only paid down 175 00:10:49,070 --> 00:10:54,659 Suze: 100,000 of principal. Why? Because all of that money went 176 00:10:54,669 --> 00:10:59,900 Suze: for interest. Because if you then sell the home, the 177 00:10:59,909 --> 00:11:02,780 Suze: mortgage company has gotten their interest up front as if 178 00:11:02,789 --> 00:11:05,659 Suze: you kept it for the entire 30 years. So in 179 00:11:05,669 --> 00:11:07,659 Suze: the last years of a mortgage, 180 00:11:08,030 --> 00:11:11,829 Suze: there is hardly any tax write off at all. So 181 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,270 Suze: wouldn't you rather and the and the mortgage payments the same. 182 00:11:15,820 --> 00:11:20,250 Suze: So wouldn't you rather pay off a mortgage where it's 183 00:11:20,260 --> 00:11:23,559 Suze: not giving you a tax write off anymore and not 184 00:11:23,570 --> 00:11:25,229 Suze: have the mortgage payment? 185 00:11:25,340 --> 00:11:28,049 Chris Wallace: I didn't know any of this. I'm serious that that's 186 00:11:28,059 --> 00:11:29,880 Chris Wallace: very useful information 187 00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:34,309 Chris Wallace: you were on CNBC for more than a decade and 188 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:38,150 Chris Wallace: one of your most power of popular segments was something called. 189 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,760 Chris Wallace: Can I afford it? Here you are: 190 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,579 Suze: Tom, what do you want to buy? 191 00:11:44,590 --> 00:11:45,109 Tom: I 192 00:11:45,119 --> 00:11:47,780 Tom: want to clone my beautiful, great Dane. 193 00:11:47,909 --> 00:11:52,569 Suze: I'm, I'm like $100,000. And how are you going to 194 00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:53,500 Suze: pay for this? 195 00:11:53,969 --> 00:11:55,940 Caller: We would wipe out our savings. 196 00:11:55,950 --> 00:11:58,780 Suze: You would, would, you, you are so denied. It's not 197 00:11:58,789 --> 00:12:01,569 Suze: even funny. Don't you dare buy this bag? Are you 198 00:12:01,580 --> 00:12:07,020 Suze: kidding me? Denied? One more time? You are approved. You 199 00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:10,750 Suze: have done such a great job for somebody 28 saving 200 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,719 Suze: almost $100,000 already. If you look at everything, boyfriend go 201 00:12:14,729 --> 00:12:15,949 Suze: and have a good time, 202 00:12:16,789 --> 00:12:19,320 Chris Wallace: You know, you really need to come out of your shell, right? 203 00:12:20,130 --> 00:12:23,209 Chris Wallace: You're such a shrinking flower. But one of your biggest 204 00:12:23,219 --> 00:12:27,089 Chris Wallace: messages is the difference between what you call a need 205 00:12:27,099 --> 00:12:30,229 Chris Wallace: and what you call a want. But that's not, I 206 00:12:30,239 --> 00:12:34,210 Chris Wallace: mean the Gucci bag, I get it but some things 207 00:12:34,219 --> 00:12:36,460 Chris Wallace: aren't they a little bit fuzzy whether it's a need 208 00:12:36,469 --> 00:12:37,239 Chris Wallace: or a want. 209 00:12:37,669 --> 00:12:40,250 Suze: If you have all the money in the world, 210 00:12:40,809 --> 00:12:43,250 Suze: you have a lot of savings. You have no debt, 211 00:12:43,340 --> 00:12:47,869 Suze: you're ready for retirement and you wanna be, spend $100,000 212 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,830 Suze: to clone your dog. I approved him by the way. Right. 213 00:12:50,890 --> 00:12:53,590 Suze: Go ahead and do it. I remember when I didn't 214 00:12:53,599 --> 00:12:55,989 Suze: have a pot to pee in and all. I wanted 215 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:57,739 Suze: to do was go out to eat or do this 216 00:12:57,750 --> 00:13:00,309 Suze: or whatever it is. Now, I have all the money 217 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:02,380 Suze: in the world and I could, uh, who wants to 218 00:13:02,390 --> 00:13:04,859 Suze: go out to eat? I don't wanna waste money like that. 219 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,919 Chris Wallace: How would you define the difference between a need and 220 00:13:06,929 --> 00:13:07,450 Chris Wallace: a want? 221 00:13:07,460 --> 00:13:09,950 Suze: So a want, for instance, is going out to a 222 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:10,159 Suze: restaurant 223 00:13:11,125 --> 00:13:14,445 Suze: and need is buying food at a grocery store for 224 00:13:14,455 --> 00:13:18,895 Suze: you to eat. Uh want is putting gasoline in your 225 00:13:18,905 --> 00:13:21,284 Suze: car just so you can drive around and need is 226 00:13:21,294 --> 00:13:24,784 Suze: putting putting gasoline in your car so you can go 227 00:13:24,794 --> 00:13:27,695 Suze: to work and need is medicine 228 00:13:28,469 --> 00:13:31,319 Suze: for, you know, for your sick kid or you a 229 00:13:31,330 --> 00:13:34,549 Suze: want is you go into a store, you see something 230 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,200 Suze: you weren't even thinking about buying it. You want that? 231 00:13:37,210 --> 00:13:38,510 Suze: I don't think so. 232 00:13:38,599 --> 00:13:42,619 Chris Wallace: But Suze, let me show you a headline recently from 233 00:13:42,630 --> 00:13:46,079 Chris Wallace: the Wall Street Journal. Take a look at this Americans 234 00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:50,830 Chris Wallace: are still spending like there's no tomorrow. We are spending 235 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,030 Chris Wallace: more on luxury goods and 236 00:13:54,163 --> 00:13:57,913 Chris Wallace: are called experiences like travel and entertainment. Are we crazy? 237 00:13:58,773 --> 00:14:03,963 Suze: Thank you financial pandemic there because of the stimulus checks 238 00:14:03,973 --> 00:14:07,343 Suze: because we didn't have to make student loan payments till now. 239 00:14:07,352 --> 00:14:10,562 Suze: We didn't have to make mortgage payments till now. We 240 00:14:10,572 --> 00:14:13,843 Suze: didn't have to pay for anything. We got to stay home, 241 00:14:13,852 --> 00:14:16,302 Suze: we didn't have to spend money to get to work. 242 00:14:16,312 --> 00:14:19,853 Suze: We got paid to stay home. Then the pandemic goes away. 243 00:14:19,862 --> 00:14:20,182 Suze: We have more, 244 00:14:20,236 --> 00:14:23,765 Suze: more money in our savings account than ever before. Now 245 00:14:23,776 --> 00:14:26,906 Suze: we go out and spend it. Now we've spent it all, 246 00:14:26,916 --> 00:14:29,765 Suze: but we've got used to spending it. So now we 247 00:14:29,776 --> 00:14:32,616 Suze: have a trillion dollars of credit card debt and very 248 00:14:32,625 --> 00:14:36,156 Suze: shortly you're going to see, in my opinion, people aren't 249 00:14:36,166 --> 00:14:38,935 Suze: gonna be able to pay their payments on that credit 250 00:14:38,945 --> 00:14:43,156 Suze: card debt up will go bankruptcies and everything else. So 251 00:14:43,166 --> 00:14:46,135 Suze: people are spending because they think they can. 252 00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:50,760 Chris Wallace: I love your personal story. At age 30 you're a 253 00:14:50,770 --> 00:14:55,880 Chris Wallace: waitress at a restaurant in Berkeley, California, the Buttercup Cafe 254 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:01,450 Chris Wallace: and your friends and your customers lend you $50,000 to 255 00:15:01,460 --> 00:15:04,049 Chris Wallace: start your own business, your own restaurant. 256 00:15:04,929 --> 00:15:06,830 Chris Wallace: What did the stockbroker do with your money? 257 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,770 Suze: So he said, how would you like to make a 258 00:15:08,780 --> 00:15:11,710 Suze: quick $100 a week? I said that's more than I 259 00:15:11,719 --> 00:15:13,659 Suze: make as a waitress. And I had been a waitress 260 00:15:13,669 --> 00:15:17,049 Suze: now for seven years and he has me sign all 261 00:15:17,059 --> 00:15:20,710 Suze: these blank papers. Why not? I didn't know better. 262 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:23,500 Suze: I leave. He fills it out. Makes me look like 263 00:15:23,510 --> 00:15:27,799 Suze: a wealthy qualified investor. Put it in the options market. 264 00:15:27,890 --> 00:15:30,530 Suze: And if you know anything about money, 90% of people 265 00:15:30,539 --> 00:15:33,359 Suze: who buy options lose all their money. And in two 266 00:15:33,369 --> 00:15:36,719 Suze: or three months, all $50,000 was lost. 267 00:15:37,289 --> 00:15:38,080 Chris Wallace: The whole kit and caboodle. 268 00:15:40,729 --> 00:15:45,609 Chris Wallace: So you decide you're gonna study and you become a, 269 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,219 Chris Wallace: a stockbroker and you become very successful. And in fact, 270 00:15:50,229 --> 00:15:56,000 Chris Wallace: you start getting interviewed about personal finances by various TV 271 00:15:56,010 --> 00:16:00,020 Chris Wallace: stations and newspapers. Whatever. How did you like having that 272 00:16:00,030 --> 00:16:01,250 Chris Wallace: public profile? 273 00:16:01,590 --> 00:16:04,619 Suze: I loved that public profile because 274 00:16:05,659 --> 00:16:08,840 Suze: I felt like I was the financial savior, the financial 275 00:16:08,849 --> 00:16:11,500 Suze: protector of those that didn't have money. 276 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,070 Suze: And I knew that my message was always for the people. 277 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,750 Suze: Like I ended the Suze Orman show every single Saturday 278 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,150 Suze: night with people first, then money, then things. 279 00:16:22,419 --> 00:16:26,859 Chris Wallace: Well, here you are on the first of many appearances 280 00:16:26,869 --> 00:16:30,409 Chris Wallace: you made on the Oprah show promoting your book on 281 00:16:30,419 --> 00:16:32,349 Chris Wallace: Financial Freedom. Take a look. 282 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,479 Suze: Freedom comes in many forms and one way it comes, 283 00:16:36,489 --> 00:16:39,309 Suze: Oprah is in money as well. What you can do 284 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,030 Suze: with it, what it can do for others. But I 285 00:16:42,039 --> 00:16:45,630 Suze: got news, money alone is not going to set you free. 286 00:16:47,419 --> 00:16:52,239 Chris Wallace: One of your big themes is directed specifically at women 287 00:16:52,250 --> 00:16:55,450 Chris Wallace: and you say that they really need to know much 288 00:16:55,460 --> 00:16:59,530 Chris Wallace: more than they do in most cases about their family's finances. 289 00:16:59,539 --> 00:17:04,780 Suze: They totally don't know, they know where the household finances are. 290 00:17:04,790 --> 00:17:06,329 Suze: And why is that? Because the 291 00:17:06,439 --> 00:17:11,500 Suze: house holds, everything they love their spouse or their mate, their Children, 292 00:17:11,510 --> 00:17:14,619 Suze: their dog, their pets, their plants and they don't care 293 00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:17,680 Suze: about what their other money is invested in. That is 294 00:17:17,689 --> 00:17:21,849 Suze: the biggest mistake they'll ever make because men, in my opinion, 295 00:17:21,859 --> 00:17:26,339 Suze: are financial fakers, total financial fakers. They'll say 296 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:31,180 Suze: I know I understand this sometimes Chris I would have them, 297 00:17:31,189 --> 00:17:34,958 Suze: when I was seeing clients, they would come in and 298 00:17:34,969 --> 00:17:38,050 Suze: I would give them the most complicated financial strategy I 299 00:17:38,060 --> 00:17:41,780 Suze: could think of. That made absolutely no sense. And they 300 00:17:41,790 --> 00:17:44,069 Suze: would say I would go. Do you understand that? And 301 00:17:44,079 --> 00:17:47,290 Suze: they'd say I understand every part of it and I'd say, oh, 302 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:49,198 Suze: that's good. Explain it to me then, 303 00:17:50,250 --> 00:17:53,670 Suze: right. And when you ask them about what they're doing, 304 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,939 Suze: they can't tell you. So it's very important when a 305 00:17:56,949 --> 00:17:59,140 Suze: man says to a woman, oh, don't worry your pretty 306 00:17:59,150 --> 00:18:01,879 Suze: little head about it. You better worry your pretty little 307 00:18:01,890 --> 00:18:02,699 Suze: head about it. 308 00:18:02,729 --> 00:18:07,079 Chris Wallace: Well, you had really made it when you became the, 309 00:18:07,089 --> 00:18:10,099 Chris Wallace: the the subjects and would say the target of a 310 00:18:10,109 --> 00:18:13,449 Chris Wallace: number of skits on Saturday Night Live. Here's one of them: 311 00:18:15,369 --> 00:18:18,280 Kristen Wiig: one good thing that has come out of this chaos 312 00:18:18,290 --> 00:18:21,889 Kristen Wiig: is that I have been everywhere lately. I've been on 313 00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:26,339 Kristen Wiig: Oprah Larry King. The Today Show, I am busier than 314 00:18:26,349 --> 00:18:28,780 Kristen Wiig: the map of the world fabric that lines my favorite 315 00:18:28,790 --> 00:18:30,979 Kristen Wiig: safari vest that I got in a gift bag two 316 00:18:30,989 --> 00:18:33,619 Kristen Wiig: years ago when I attended the release party of the 317 00:18:33,630 --> 00:18:36,969 Kristen Wiig: new Snapple flavor African berry blossom tea. Berry Love. 318 00:18:38,599 --> 00:18:39,540 Chris Wallace: Did you like that? 319 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,930 Suze: I was in the audience once when she did it 320 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,199 Suze: and everybody was watching me watching her. And then I 321 00:18:47,209 --> 00:18:50,659 Suze: noticed on my own show, I started to talk like 322 00:18:50,670 --> 00:18:53,569 Suze: that and my producer, Amy Feller of the Suze Orman 323 00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:56,239 Suze: show would go. What are you doing? I go, I 324 00:18:56,250 --> 00:19:01,300 Suze: guess I've become Kristen Wiig being me highest honor 325 00:19:01,699 --> 00:19:05,400 Suze: that I ever truthfully I've won Emmys, you know, time 326 00:19:05,410 --> 00:19:08,640 Suze: 100 for all of it. The highest honor in my 327 00:19:08,650 --> 00:19:10,880 Suze: opinion was that. 328 00:19:11,020 --> 00:19:14,680 Chris Wallace: You retired to the Bahamas in 2016 329 00:19:15,469 --> 00:19:20,129 Chris Wallace: and the retirement didn't take, you ended up coming back 330 00:19:20,140 --> 00:19:21,359 Chris Wallace: to work. Why? 331 00:19:21,579 --> 00:19:25,010 Suze: Well, first of all, why did I retire? I wanted 332 00:19:25,020 --> 00:19:27,040 Suze: to know right now as I sit here with you, 333 00:19:27,050 --> 00:19:30,199 Suze: I'm 72. I, I wanted to know when I was 334 00:19:30,209 --> 00:19:32,719 Suze: 65 who was Suze Orman, 335 00:19:33,189 --> 00:19:36,550 Suze: who would Suze Orman be without one of the top 336 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,689 Suze: rated shows on CNBC. 50,000 people standing for me giving 337 00:19:40,699 --> 00:19:44,719 Suze: me a standing ovation when I gave a talk Oprah magazine, 338 00:19:45,020 --> 00:19:48,050 Suze: all the stuff that I had done. Who am I? 339 00:19:48,464 --> 00:19:51,395 Suze: So I decided KT, my spouse thought I had a 340 00:19:51,405 --> 00:19:55,214 Suze: nervous breakdown in one week. I put five homes up 341 00:19:55,224 --> 00:19:57,754 Suze: for sale. I closed down the Suze Orman Show. I 342 00:19:57,765 --> 00:20:01,165 Suze: stopped going on QVC, stopped writing for the Oprah magazine 343 00:20:01,494 --> 00:20:05,464 Suze: and stopped taking talks done. All Suze. Who are you? 344 00:20:05,574 --> 00:20:08,005 Suze: So we moved to the Bahamas and I learned how 345 00:20:08,015 --> 00:20:08,685 Suze: to fish 346 00:20:09,410 --> 00:20:13,229 Suze: and I learned how to captain my own boat. And 347 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,188 Suze: we went into a tournament and I won the Wahoo 348 00:20:16,199 --> 00:20:19,989 Suze: contest and I found out who I was. I was 349 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,869 Suze: somebody who was happy no matter what I did. 350 00:20:24,380 --> 00:20:28,109 Suze: Then I started the women and Money podcast, which is fabulous. 351 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:30,659 Suze: And we're in our fourth year now and then little 352 00:20:30,670 --> 00:20:35,699 Suze: by little, it was like, oh Chris Wallace, let's try 353 00:20:35,709 --> 00:20:39,630 Suze: that and other things. And so we'll see how far 354 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:40,839 Suze: back I really come. 355 00:20:41,589 --> 00:20:45,250 Chris Wallace: You mentioned, uh, Kathy Travis KT as you call her, 356 00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:50,530 Chris Wallace: in 2010, you two got married, you said that she 357 00:20:50,540 --> 00:20:54,448 Chris Wallace: builds brands and you're a brand and one time you 358 00:20:54,459 --> 00:20:57,729 Chris Wallace: did a show about the finances of gay couples. Here 359 00:20:57,739 --> 00:20:58,180 Chris Wallace: you are: 360 00:21:00,010 --> 00:21:04,089 Suze: Here I sit in front of you. A 61 year 361 00:21:04,099 --> 00:21:08,359 Suze: old woman who has been gay my entire life who 362 00:21:08,369 --> 00:21:11,829 Suze: has been in a committed relationship for the past 12 years. 363 00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:15,770 Suze: And I will die in this relationship. A woman who 364 00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:20,130 Suze: pays more taxes than most that is a contributing member 365 00:21:20,140 --> 00:21:23,780 Suze: to the economy in more ways than most yet. I 366 00:21:23,790 --> 00:21:26,349 Suze: am not treated equally. 367 00:21:27,959 --> 00:21:33,459 Chris Wallace: So how are gay couples treated differently and less fairly 368 00:21:33,709 --> 00:21:35,930 Chris Wallace: than heterosexual couples? 369 00:21:35,939 --> 00:21:38,699 Suze: So, it's funny if you met KT and asked her 370 00:21:38,709 --> 00:21:41,339 Suze: to see what's in her wallet, she carries a marriage 371 00:21:41,349 --> 00:21:44,659 Suze: certificate with her because I've had some times where I've 372 00:21:44,670 --> 00:21:47,300 Suze: ended up in a hospital and they haven't wanted to 373 00:21:47,310 --> 00:21:51,198 Suze: let her in and she'd say, but we're married and 374 00:21:51,209 --> 00:21:53,540 Suze: they didn't quite believe in and she'd pull out the 375 00:21:53,550 --> 00:21:55,780 Suze: marriage certificate and then she would be able to come in. 376 00:21:56,199 --> 00:22:00,300 Suze: But it's something that we have to guard very carefully, Chris, 377 00:22:00,310 --> 00:22:03,619 Suze: because I think we're in the midst of possibly losing 378 00:22:03,849 --> 00:22:06,260 Suze: all those rights all over again. 379 00:22:06,719 --> 00:22:10,939 Chris Wallace: Let's end this with some practical advice. 380 00:22:11,939 --> 00:22:15,609 Chris Wallace: What percentage of Americans would you say are 381 00:22:16,449 --> 00:22:18,069 Chris Wallace: financially illiterate, 382 00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:22,429 Suze: Truthfully? Probably 95%. 383 00:22:23,939 --> 00:22:26,020 Chris Wallace: What does financial illiteracy mean to you? 384 00:22:26,030 --> 00:22:30,540 Suze: Means that maybe you're interested in retiring one day and 385 00:22:30,550 --> 00:22:32,770 Suze: I tell you to do something and you don't have 386 00:22:32,780 --> 00:22:35,849 Suze: a clue what I'm talking about. I tell somebody to 387 00:22:35,859 --> 00:22:38,698 Suze: do a Roth IRA. They don't have a clue what 388 00:22:38,709 --> 00:22:42,420 Suze: I'm talking about. I ask somebody what's in your retirement account? 389 00:22:42,430 --> 00:22:46,188 Suze: They go, well, it's in a traditional retirement. Don't have 390 00:22:46,199 --> 00:22:48,689 Suze: a clue. They don't have a will. They don't have 391 00:22:48,699 --> 00:22:50,060 Suze: a trust. They don't have a durable power 392 00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:53,179 Suze: attorney for health care in advance directive. They don't know 393 00:22:53,189 --> 00:22:55,739 Suze: what a 529 plan is. They don't understand. 394 00:22:55,750 --> 00:23:00,129 Chris Wallace: Now you're just getting personally hurtful to me. As I, 395 00:23:00,150 --> 00:23:01,630 Chris Wallace: as I, as I, some of these things I realize, 396 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,459 Chris Wallace: I don't know. Should financial literacy be taught in school? 397 00:23:06,150 --> 00:23:11,218 Suze: Yes. Yes. Yes. It should be mandatory that you can't 398 00:23:11,229 --> 00:23:15,959 Suze: graduate high school and not understand how student loans work. 399 00:23:16,089 --> 00:23:21,010 Suze: It should be mandatory that you understand what compounding interest 400 00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:25,639 Suze: means and how your youth contributes to millions of dollars 401 00:23:25,650 --> 00:23:26,439 Suze: in the long run. 402 00:23:26,449 --> 00:23:28,400 Chris Wallace: How should you decide whether to, 403 00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:30,659 Chris Wallace: buy or to lease a car? 404 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:34,099 Suze: You should never lease a car, right? Leasing a car 405 00:23:34,109 --> 00:23:36,670 Suze: is the biggest waste of money out there. You only 406 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,839 Suze: get to drive at 12,000 miles. You have to have 407 00:23:38,849 --> 00:23:42,079 Suze: a lease gap insurance. Why don't you do what I do? 408 00:23:42,510 --> 00:23:44,270 Suze: I bought a car even if I, you have to 409 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,199 Suze: finance it, finance a car after it's paid for in full. 410 00:23:48,209 --> 00:23:50,959 Suze: Keep it. My car is going on 12 years old. 411 00:23:51,449 --> 00:23:52,319 Chris Wallace: I lease a car. 412 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,500 Suze: So why I, I know what you're gonna tell me 413 00:23:56,510 --> 00:23:58,719 Suze: because it's a tax write off. Suze. 414 00:23:58,729 --> 00:24:02,040 Chris Wallace: No, I just, I think that I wanna not have 415 00:24:02,050 --> 00:24:04,369 Chris Wallace: to deal with an older car and I can lease 416 00:24:04,380 --> 00:24:06,359 Chris Wallace: it for a few years. It's cheaper. I don't drive 417 00:24:06,369 --> 00:24:09,359 Chris Wallace: it very much. I don't go over the limit and 418 00:24:09,369 --> 00:24:11,150 Chris Wallace: I can turn it in and get a brand new 419 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,079 Chris Wallace: car in three years. 420 00:24:12,089 --> 00:24:14,310 Suze: So you're renting a car? Do you own a home? 421 00:24:14,319 --> 00:24:14,959 Chris Wallace: Yes. 422 00:24:14,969 --> 00:24:17,109 Suze: Why don't you rent an apartment? 423 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,410 Chris Wallace: Because see, that's different because real estate goes up and 424 00:24:22,420 --> 00:24:25,239 Chris Wallace: the value of my home has increased a lot. But 425 00:24:25,250 --> 00:24:27,770 Chris Wallace: a car is a depreciating asset as you just said. 426 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,760 Suze: Yes. But if you keep it the entire time and 427 00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:33,099 Suze: you look at the money that the entire time and 428 00:24:33,109 --> 00:24:34,780 Suze: the life of it, if you take good care of it, 429 00:24:34,790 --> 00:24:37,300 Suze: like my car is gonna be good for another five years. 430 00:24:37,550 --> 00:24:39,449 Suze: I just think it's better to buy. 431 00:24:39,939 --> 00:24:42,089 Chris Wallace: Whole life or term insurance. 432 00:24:42,300 --> 00:24:47,409 Suze: Term whole life is the biggest waste of money. Possible. 433 00:24:47,969 --> 00:24:49,109 Chris Wallace: Good. I, I, 434 00:24:49,969 --> 00:24:51,150 Chris Wallace: I get term insurance. 435 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,899 Chris Wallace: So, and this is probably the most important question. I'm 436 00:24:55,910 --> 00:24:58,849 Chris Wallace: gonna ask you, you talk about people living paycheck to 437 00:24:58,859 --> 00:25:02,660 Chris Wallace: paycheck and we're now in an inflationary period. How do 438 00:25:02,670 --> 00:25:03,379 Chris Wallace: you save? 439 00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:08,449 Suze: Well, make sure your boss gets secure, save, right? You 440 00:25:08,459 --> 00:25:12,420 Suze: save by automatically having some amount of money taken from 441 00:25:12,430 --> 00:25:15,810 Suze: a check every single month and putting it somewhere like 442 00:25:15,819 --> 00:25:18,719 Suze: a savings account. You have a paycheck for $3000. You're 443 00:25:18,729 --> 00:25:22,739 Suze: gonna spend every penny. You have a paycheck for $2500 444 00:25:22,750 --> 00:25:26,169 Suze: but 500 has gone to savings. You'll make it on 2500. 445 00:25:27,130 --> 00:25:29,810 Chris Wallace: If you do save some money and you got it. 446 00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:32,030 Chris Wallace: Where should you invest now? 447 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,188 Suze: Rather than investing, but the first thing you have to 448 00:25:34,199 --> 00:25:36,069 Suze: do is make sure you're out of credit card debt 449 00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:39,060 Suze: because if these interest rates with the fed, raising interest 450 00:25:39,069 --> 00:25:41,550 Suze: rates so high many of you are paying in your 20%. 451 00:25:41,670 --> 00:25:44,750 Suze: So you first get out of credit card debt. Next, 452 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,869 Suze: any money market fund, any credit union, any savings account 453 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:54,389 Suze: that's paying you now, 4% 5% right? Whatever it may be, 454 00:25:54,410 --> 00:25:56,550 Suze: that's where you would be saving it right now, 455 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,060 Chris Wallace: Suze Orman. Thank you. Thank you very useful. And you 456 00:26:01,069 --> 00:26:04,859 Chris Wallace: only made me feel really dumb in a couple of areas. 457 00:26:04,869 --> 00:26:07,569 Suze: No, don't feel dumb come to me. 458 00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:10,790 Chris Wallace: Well, I particularly to you and KT in the Bahamas 459 00:26:10,819 --> 00:26:15,170 Chris Wallace: sounds great. And as Suze mentioned, check out her weekly podcast, 460 00:26:15,180 --> 00:26:18,859 Chris Wallace: Women and Money where she answers your questions and offers 461 00:26:18,869 --> 00:26:22,698 Chris Wallace: advice about how to manage your finances in today's economy. 462 00:26:23,209 --> 00:26:26,030 Chris Wallace: She says her message is for women at all stages 463 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,560 Chris Wallace: of life and everyone smart enough to tune in. Thanks 464 00:26:30,569 --> 00:26:32,949 Chris Wallace: for watching and keep streaming any time you want right 465 00:26:32,959 --> 00:26:36,629 Chris Wallace: here on Max to find out who's talking next. 466 00:26:39,660 --> 00:26:42,900 Robert: That was Suze's appearance on the CNN show Who's talking 467 00:26:42,910 --> 00:26:46,000 Robert: to Chris Wallace. If you wanna watch it after you've 468 00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:48,399 Robert: listened to it and wanna wanna see Suze and Chris 469 00:26:48,410 --> 00:26:50,729 Robert: talk to each other, you can watch that as well 470 00:26:50,739 --> 00:26:54,859 Robert: as many other episodes, including new episodes of who's talking 471 00:26:54,869 --> 00:26:59,729 Robert: to Chris Wallace. They're all available streaming on Max. Remember 472 00:26:59,739 --> 00:27:02,609 Robert: Suze and KT will be back with another Ask KT 473 00:27:02,619 --> 00:27:07,300 Robert: and Suze Anything podcast this Thursday. Thanks for listening.