WEBVTT - How do families build and maintain wealth? 0:00:09.770 --> 0:00:13.330 Welcome to BIV Today the Daily Business podcast from the Newsroom of 0:00:13.350 --> 0:00:15.740 Business in Vancouver. I'm Kurt LaPointe, Editor in Chief. 0:00:15.830 --> 0:00:18.470 Our Podcast is brought to today by the Downtown Vancouver 0:00:18.470 --> 0:00:23.600 Business Improvement Association. The DVBIA supports and promotes and represents 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:27.140 the shared interest of 7000 businesses and property owners in 0:00:27.140 --> 0:00:32.010 the central 90 block area of Vancouver's downtown core. 0:00:32.060 --> 0:00:35.089 So we're in the thick of tax season which for 0:00:35.090 --> 0:00:37.610 many Canadians is the one time of year to reflect 0:00:37.610 --> 0:00:41.330 on our earnings and if we're fortunate our wealth. There 0:00:41.330 --> 0:00:43.490 are of course those who think about their earnings and 0:00:43.490 --> 0:00:46.700 wealth every day almost every waking moment of that day 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:51.290 and they plan and execute extensive financial strategies. They have 0:00:51.290 --> 0:00:56.360 a discipline about their holdings they have techniques for prosperity. 0:00:56.390 --> 0:00:58.640 My guest on the podcast today is Tom McCullough. He 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:02.450 brings thirty five years of wealth management experience first with 0:01:02.870 --> 0:01:06.260 RBC Wealth Management and then establishing the highly regarded Northwood 0:01:06.530 --> 0:01:09.270 family office in 2003. 0:01:09.270 --> 0:01:11.510 He's an adjunct professor at the Rotman School of Management 0:01:11.510 --> 0:01:14.870 at University of Toronto and he's written. He's co-written a 0:01:14.870 --> 0:01:19.270 book with Keith Whitaker and has dozens of contributors for 0:01:19.310 --> 0:01:22.910 chapters that the rich and not so rich alike can value. 0:01:22.910 --> 0:01:27.320 It's called Wealth of Wisdom. The top 50 questions wealthy 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.160 families ask and it identifies what we need to ask 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:32.000 of ourselves. 0:01:32.060 --> 0:01:35.990 And for that matter others at times for protection and growth. 0:01:35.990 --> 0:01:38.030 Tom McCullough joins me now. Good to have you with us. 0:01:38.620 --> 0:01:39.690 Thank you very much. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:44.030 Your book identifies not only of course these critical questions 0:01:44.060 --> 0:01:47.510 but the common traits of success. There are many of 0:01:47.510 --> 0:01:50.720 them but run us through a few of what you think 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:55.040 are some of the more important traits of success. 0:01:55.070 --> 0:01:58.130 Well just by content by way of context the book was written 0:01:58.130 --> 0:02:01.669 for families of wealth. But as you rightly say in 0:02:01.670 --> 0:02:06.950 your introduction the principles in the book are applicable really 0:02:06.950 --> 0:02:12.320 to most most families and it's divided into a number 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.260 of different sections. And I think those sections end up 0:02:15.260 --> 0:02:18.590 being that the core principles. But I if I had 0:02:18.590 --> 0:02:22.519 to say what they see couple of principles would be 0:02:22.610 --> 0:02:26.840 in terms of family thriving with regard to well I 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:30.530 would say they are related to thinking about what your 0:02:30.710 --> 0:02:34.790 values are and what you want out of your life. 0:02:34.790 --> 0:02:38.540 And then people often take their ready fire aim approach 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:41.510 as opposed to Ready aim fire and they jump right 0:02:41.510 --> 0:02:44.800 into doing something of personal thinking about well who are we. 0:02:44.800 --> 0:02:46.310 And what do we want and what do we want 0:02:46.310 --> 0:02:48.260 things to look like. Another principle I would say is 0:02:48.260 --> 0:02:51.679 something related to planning and setting goals you know literally 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:55.990 setting talking writing down your goals ordering them and others 0:02:56.030 --> 0:03:00.590 priority and then calculating what's it going to cost some 0:03:00.590 --> 0:03:03.440 goals cost something and some some goals don't. And then 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.320 I think the third principle I'd say is maybe communication 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.709 among family members. You know it's fine. You know it 0:03:09.750 --> 0:03:12.230 well well you're if you're the leader or driver or 0:03:12.230 --> 0:03:15.980 entrepreneur patriarch matriarch it's fine the kids are young. But 0:03:15.980 --> 0:03:19.040 when you start to the family start to broaden and 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.460 there's more than just one person a lot. There's a 0:03:22.460 --> 0:03:25.549 lot of angst that can be avoided or somewhat avoided 0:03:25.550 --> 0:03:27.550 by communication. 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.660 And I want to explore all three of these in 0:03:29.660 --> 0:03:33.240 our talk today but I'm intrigued right away by the 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:38.420 question of values. And I wonder whether we do have 0:03:38.420 --> 0:03:43.010 to adapt our values and all of this. Or or 0:03:43.010 --> 0:03:45.980 largely do you have to then you have to define 0:03:45.980 --> 0:03:51.140 them and then work backwards and start essentially adapting your 0:03:51.140 --> 0:03:52.820 financial strategies to suit them. 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:54.320 Absolutely. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:04:00.290 You start with values so you we do an exercise 0:04:00.290 --> 0:04:03.590 with a lot of our families where we we identify 0:04:04.450 --> 0:04:08.000 a large number of values say 25 we have cards 0:04:08.060 --> 0:04:10.820 and we ask family members to order those cards from 0:04:10.820 --> 0:04:12.210 most important to least. 0:04:12.770 --> 0:04:15.030 It's kind of a tough job but if we do 0:04:15.030 --> 0:04:17.120 it in a fun exercise but really the point is 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.120 you know one thing that really resonates with me. What 0:04:20.130 --> 0:04:21.650 what are the things that drive me. What are the 0:04:21.650 --> 0:04:26.000 things that. You know are I would I would do 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:30.680 other things aside to do and they say that the 0:04:30.700 --> 0:04:34.849 happiest people are those who live according to their values. 0:04:34.850 --> 0:04:39.620 So it's most important that you adapt or that you 0:04:40.339 --> 0:04:43.539 adapt your life to your values and not the reverse. 0:04:43.550 --> 0:04:47.760 Now in a family only you want to adapt to 0:04:47.810 --> 0:04:50.120 if you're more than one person you have to adapt 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.970 to each other in some way. But ultimately the key 0:04:52.970 --> 0:04:56.029 is figuring out what each person's values are and maybe 0:04:56.300 --> 0:04:58.400 where some of the overlaps are and which things are 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.070 going to drive your decision nice. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:05.330 And before you can satisfy with the answers to these 0:05:05.570 --> 0:05:08.630 critical questions these 50 questions that to it. And what 0:05:09.230 --> 0:05:11.450 but in your own mind do you think someone has 0:05:11.450 --> 0:05:15.120 to be prepared to do it. In other words what. 0:05:15.250 --> 0:05:15.650 What is it. 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:22.070 What is it take wanted to take two to move 0:05:22.100 --> 0:05:24.750 the next step in the Internet. How do you values. 0:05:24.980 --> 0:05:27.350 Yeah. Well not not just not just in defining your 0:05:27.350 --> 0:05:30.650 values but in determining that really you're going to be 0:05:30.650 --> 0:05:36.680 serious about generating wealth about this pursuit of a kind 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:38.839 of a stable prosperity. 0:05:38.870 --> 0:05:41.870 Yeah. I think that's a better a better term. You 0:05:41.870 --> 0:05:44.630 know it's not necessarily about making a large amount of 0:05:44.630 --> 0:05:46.490 money when sincerely I mean a lot of our clients 0:05:46.490 --> 0:05:49.390 already have a large amount of money because they sold 0:05:49.390 --> 0:05:52.520 a business or worked in a high paying job for 0:05:52.610 --> 0:05:53.280 a long time. 0:05:53.339 --> 0:05:57.980 But I think the key is I think the key 0:05:57.980 --> 0:06:01.060 is you know eliminating intentionality. 0:06:01.610 --> 0:06:05.159 And if some you know I mean maybe it's not 0:06:05.180 --> 0:06:07.970 hard to do so maybe you need a coach or 0:06:07.970 --> 0:06:09.760 you need somebody to help you do it. 0:06:09.890 --> 0:06:11.810 Somebody with a bit of a framework but things that 0:06:11.870 --> 0:06:15.429 aren't urgent often don't get done even if they're important. 0:06:16.660 --> 0:06:21.480 One of because the intentionality and desire and sometimes failure 0:06:21.750 --> 0:06:24.390 to seek out a way to do it either you can. 0:06:24.490 --> 0:06:27.040 You can look it up online there are ways to do. 0:06:27.370 --> 0:06:30.790 Just use values as an example. Start with that kind 0:06:30.790 --> 0:06:33.070 of kind of process you can figure out how to 0:06:33.070 --> 0:06:35.109 do it online but a lot of people they need 0:06:35.589 --> 0:06:39.100 somebody to help them be an independent person that will 0:06:39.100 --> 0:06:42.849 lead them through it and help them make a plan 0:06:42.850 --> 0:06:45.750 and help them ultimately quite frankly stick to the plan. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:48.250 So I think that raises a whole other set of 0:06:48.250 --> 0:06:50.229 issues about how do you actually find somebody who is 0:06:50.230 --> 0:06:54.820 good with qualified experience is trustworthy. That's a tricky job 0:06:54.820 --> 0:06:55.729 in itself as well. 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:00.490 Now what is the. If you have to generalize what's 0:07:00.490 --> 0:07:03.310 the single most important question then that you have to 0:07:03.310 --> 0:07:03.850 start with. 0:07:06.690 --> 0:07:10.050 Well it's the single most important question is one thing 0:07:10.110 --> 0:07:12.610 most commonly especially the mother herself. 0:07:12.660 --> 0:07:16.410 I'll answer your question single most important question I think 0:07:16.410 --> 0:07:21.110 has got to be something to do with either values. 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:22.280 What do I want. 0:07:22.290 --> 0:07:25.980 What is important to me. And related questions of accuracy 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:29.580 both very tied together is is what are my goals. 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.210 And it's very difficult if you could have done that verbally. 0:07:32.250 --> 0:07:34.300 Greg under some of these ideas and what are you goals. 0:07:34.310 --> 0:07:36.780 Often it's very difficult for us to say what those are. 0:07:36.810 --> 0:07:40.380 We might vaguely say well know more about here or 0:07:40.470 --> 0:07:43.940 higher return or you know something new a kid. But 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.430 but to actually sit down and say I'm going to 0:07:47.430 --> 0:07:50.110 write down what I want to happen and I'm going 0:07:50.110 --> 0:07:52.800 to decide which ones are highest priority and then I'm 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:54.690 going to see if any of them cost any money 0:07:55.030 --> 0:07:57.840 and then figure out then what rate of return I 0:07:57.840 --> 0:07:59.730 need on my investments or how long I have to 0:07:59.730 --> 0:08:04.500 work or whatever it is to make sure those goals happen. 0:08:04.620 --> 0:08:08.760 The lowest probably the lowest possibility of rip that kind 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.890 of intentionality of who are. Who am I. What are 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.180 my values are always at the family and what are 0:08:15.180 --> 0:08:17.970 our goals. I think that most of those are very 0:08:17.970 --> 0:08:22.800 very important first steps that are usually missed as people 0:08:23.100 --> 0:08:27.059 try and find the right investment or pick a stock 0:08:27.060 --> 0:08:31.650 or pick an ETF provider or tickets manager is going 0:08:31.650 --> 0:08:34.920 to perform the market and they may miss the most 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.410 important foundational issues about where they're going. You wouldn't get 0:08:37.410 --> 0:08:41.969 a car and just randomly drive randomly anyway usually know 0:08:41.970 --> 0:08:42.650 where you're going. 0:08:42.690 --> 0:08:45.620 And I say most people invest in investing. 0:08:45.929 --> 0:08:51.470 For example don't yeah you made the distinction in answering that. 0:08:51.630 --> 0:08:54.750 What's the most important versus what's the most common but 0:08:54.750 --> 0:08:57.949 what is the most common question that people tend to ask. 0:08:58.190 --> 0:08:59.420 How am I going to make a lot of money 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:00.300 pursuing them. 0:09:00.890 --> 0:09:04.430 No no. Well I guess it depends. I mean we're 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.360 dealing with people who have money. OK. 0:09:06.450 --> 0:09:10.319 So the most common question we get is I don't 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:13.600 want this money to ruin my kids. What do I do. 0:09:13.770 --> 0:09:18.930 Don't you ruin my kids because we have a lot 0:09:18.929 --> 0:09:19.460 of money. 0:09:19.830 --> 0:09:24.209 And so we we're worried that this thing that we 0:09:24.210 --> 0:09:27.600 worked so hard to to build is actually going to 0:09:27.990 --> 0:09:31.350 maybe ruin the kids because it said they'll be entitled 0:09:31.350 --> 0:09:33.030 and more than a reason to get off the couch 0:09:33.030 --> 0:09:36.840 and we'll never fully develop. So it's not everybody's most 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:39.929 company question but it's certainly the most common question that 0:09:40.020 --> 0:09:44.420 I feel I got in my practice without saying about it. 0:09:44.820 --> 0:09:47.460 The title of your book is is of course very 0:09:47.460 --> 0:09:50.670 important and instructive in this one because it's about wealthy 0:09:50.670 --> 0:09:56.640 families not wealthy investors necessarily. Can you instill the values 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.130 of wealth management in your children if you don't first 0:09:59.130 --> 0:10:00.170 start with yourself. 0:10:01.860 --> 0:10:06.840 You can instill values. Now there's two things I'd say 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:08.850 about instilling any values in children. 0:10:08.850 --> 0:10:14.640 One is there are certainly opportunities to be intentional about 0:10:15.090 --> 0:10:15.960 teaching values. 0:10:15.990 --> 0:10:19.199 So you know if you're thinking about wealth mentally as 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.510 you could think about China and every family can do 0:10:21.510 --> 0:10:24.720 this having 20 jars for younger children and if you 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.179 give them an allowance a third of those in the 0:10:27.179 --> 0:10:30.470 jar for spending those in the jar for saving and 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.810 a third those in the jar for giving and those 0:10:33.809 --> 0:10:38.689 are great ways to help children think about money by 0:10:38.700 --> 0:10:43.530 generosity about delayed gratification all those kinds of things. 0:10:43.530 --> 0:10:46.480 The other thing I know about values is and this 0:10:46.490 --> 0:10:49.440 is quoting one of the authors in the book the 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:52.230 name is Ellen Perry and she wrote the chapter called 0:10:52.660 --> 0:10:57.130 what passing values to the next generation really look like. 0:10:57.150 --> 0:11:03.690 And she she basically says that values are primarily caught 0:11:03.750 --> 0:11:06.820 not taught so you can teach all you want. 0:11:06.870 --> 0:11:09.559 You can say you shouldn't do this you should do that. 0:11:09.780 --> 0:11:12.150 But mostly our kids are gonna be looking at us 0:11:12.150 --> 0:11:14.910 to see what we do not what we say. So 0:11:14.910 --> 0:11:17.300 think of yourself the last time you were in traffic 0:11:17.300 --> 0:11:20.929 with one of your kids or when you're in a. 0:11:21.059 --> 0:11:23.600 Let me know things are getting too close to home. 0:11:23.730 --> 0:11:26.370 If you were in a light lineup or on the 0:11:26.370 --> 0:11:30.810 phone with Rogers or you were no talking to an 0:11:30.809 --> 0:11:32.780 employee or a service person. 0:11:34.290 --> 0:11:36.420 So the question really is what are the values that 0:11:36.420 --> 0:11:40.500 we are are demonstrating. And there's a pretty good chance 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:43.500 that the values that we demonstrate are the ones that 0:11:43.500 --> 0:11:45.410 will be picked up by our children. And so lots 0:11:45.420 --> 0:11:48.330 of us will step back and think about that and 0:11:48.330 --> 0:11:50.950 say you you know are these the values that I 0:11:51.059 --> 0:11:53.210 my demonstrating the values that I want my children to 0:11:53.210 --> 0:11:55.770 pick up that can be wealth values I'm saving or 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:59.679 overspending or whatever. But it could be just general values 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:00.439 and life as well. 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.600 And yet we want our children obviously to be happy 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.839 and we probably want for them better things than what 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.600 we even had. How do you how do you then 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:12.870 avoid when you're dealing with things like managing your wealth 0:12:13.290 --> 0:12:18.059 not kind of overspending and lavishing things on them and 0:12:18.630 --> 0:12:23.730 doing that out of good intentions but perhaps bad results. 0:12:24.450 --> 0:12:27.630 I think it's almost always had good intentions and love 0:12:27.660 --> 0:12:30.540 the parents do what they do. We live in a 0:12:30.540 --> 0:12:33.960 very busy society. Many of us have two working expenses 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:38.609 in the family where we're short on time and so 0:12:38.610 --> 0:12:42.839 money like time money and time solve a lot of 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:47.040 problems that money can solve too quickly. So we're busy 0:12:47.100 --> 0:12:50.550 and so we throw money at a problem. What happens 0:12:50.550 --> 0:12:55.410 with that is that we end up helping our children 0:12:56.130 --> 0:13:00.270 helping in that small age helping our children avoid natural consequence. 0:13:01.710 --> 0:13:05.280 And so for instance think about the child who goes 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:09.270 to university or teenager that goes to university and blows 0:13:09.270 --> 0:13:11.760 through their spending budget that is supposed to last a 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:15.120 whole month by the 15th and they call up and 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.020 we're really busy and they say you know Dad Mom 0:13:18.030 --> 0:13:20.010 I just blown through this money and then we top 0:13:20.010 --> 0:13:23.809 it up. So what does the child learn. They learn 0:13:23.830 --> 0:13:25.860 there's no such thing as a budget. I don't have 0:13:25.860 --> 0:13:29.880 to worry about delayed gratification. You know a whole series 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:30.530 of lessons. 0:13:30.550 --> 0:13:32.939 You know I don't budget a whole series of lessons 0:13:32.940 --> 0:13:35.220 that we don't want our kids to learn probably we 0:13:35.220 --> 0:13:38.939 probably want them to learn the impact of their own choices. 0:13:38.950 --> 0:13:40.770 We all want to want them to learn how to 0:13:41.010 --> 0:13:44.970 budget and save all those kinds of things. And and 0:13:44.980 --> 0:13:47.610 by and you know partly we're busy but partly we 0:13:47.610 --> 0:13:50.600 feel that you know although they didn't want know. And 0:13:50.610 --> 0:13:54.240 we want to help our kids avoid difficulty. But the 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.059 interesting thing I always think about it is when we 0:13:57.150 --> 0:13:59.280 when you talk to somebody about their character and how 0:13:59.280 --> 0:14:04.319 their character was formed mostly people coping with it were difficult. 0:14:04.790 --> 0:14:07.890 Yeah it was forged in difficulty. And if we take 0:14:07.890 --> 0:14:11.070 those things away from our children small and large things 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.900 we end up with kids who don't learn most significant lessons. 0:14:14.940 --> 0:14:17.579 And if it gets more extreme than that we have 0:14:17.580 --> 0:14:20.010 trouble moving on in our life and they have trouble 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:25.510 receiving rejection and correction at work or in school. And 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:27.150 and then of course you can get into much more 0:14:27.150 --> 0:14:28.310 serious things too. 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:29.850 And so I don't think that is only an issue 0:14:29.850 --> 0:14:32.880 for the wealthy and that applies to to many many 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.520 of us who are sending kids to university and you 0:14:35.550 --> 0:14:37.980 know I mean a lot of a lot of Canadians 0:14:37.980 --> 0:14:40.440 are relative to the rest of the world have lots 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:44.030 of resources. And so I think these issues will be common. 0:14:44.700 --> 0:14:47.730 Money is energy as you know. And those are the 0:14:47.730 --> 0:14:51.090 conversations you have about money as a family as you're 0:14:51.090 --> 0:14:55.290 trying to generate wealth as as a group. They're trying 0:14:55.290 --> 0:14:58.530 not to fritter away on on things that are inconsequential 0:14:58.530 --> 0:15:03.970 and so on. How do you counsel families to have 0:15:03.970 --> 0:15:09.280 their conversations so that they can minimize the conflicts that 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:09.660 they have. 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.940 That's a very good question. There is a really good 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:18.120 chapter in the book by a fellow named Charles Collier 0:15:18.150 --> 0:15:22.320 who is the head of philanthropy I think at Harvard 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.870 University for many many years but became a real advisor 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.920 to family. He's got a great piece in there called 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.670 How do you start a family conversation about financial inheritance 0:15:33.210 --> 0:15:37.020 rights inheritance. But many many of the questions that he 0:15:37.380 --> 0:15:41.460 raises apply number one wealth in general. And number two 0:15:41.460 --> 0:15:44.910 to families of all all shapes and sizes and amounts 0:15:44.910 --> 0:15:45.580 of wealth. 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:49.440 But a lot of it is he talks about it 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.650 this is the place where you could talk about your 0:15:52.650 --> 0:15:56.310 principles and the principles that you have learned as a parent. 0:15:56.310 --> 0:16:01.890 For example over time I think another principle is that 0:16:01.890 --> 0:16:06.180 he talks about is openness and creating an environment where 0:16:06.180 --> 0:16:09.150 people can ask where we're kids. For example can ask 0:16:09.150 --> 0:16:13.180 difficult questions. There are questions that are you know you're 0:16:13.980 --> 0:16:15.280 not allowed to ask. 0:16:15.510 --> 0:16:18.820 And and I'm not going to be avoided you know 0:16:19.510 --> 0:16:23.450 money is an awkward topic and you have to. It 0:16:23.450 --> 0:16:25.380 doesn't mean you have to disclose everything to your children 0:16:25.380 --> 0:16:25.760 right away. 0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:27.870 You can say well we decided not to talk about 0:16:28.230 --> 0:16:31.110 the details of the act but let's talk about everything 0:16:31.110 --> 0:16:34.380 else around that. And I think I'm giving you a 0:16:34.380 --> 0:16:38.460 Democrat I say again not just communication but give kids 0:16:38.460 --> 0:16:42.870 experience with small amounts of money early on give them 0:16:42.870 --> 0:16:47.680 experience with things that you're doing take them places. You 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:49.950 know some of some of other issues related to wealth 0:16:50.010 --> 0:16:52.890 not just the actual creation of wealth or the actual 0:16:52.890 --> 0:16:56.640 management of money but also related to you know generosity 0:16:57.050 --> 0:16:59.850 and how do you encourage generosity in your family. Because 0:17:00.150 --> 0:17:02.180 some of that is the idea of sharing wealth but 0:17:02.250 --> 0:17:04.800 is not a static thing as you say it's energy. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.830 So it's like the making of the managing of it 0:17:07.830 --> 0:17:11.290 and the sharing of it and filling the hole in 0:17:11.670 --> 0:17:14.790 the process having healthy healthy families. 0:17:14.790 --> 0:17:16.649 But I can tell you there's loads and loads in 0:17:16.650 --> 0:17:19.679 the book on that topic and you I don't know 0:17:19.780 --> 0:17:21.660 what we'll talk about it later but there are also 0:17:21.660 --> 0:17:25.530 podcast and kids and podcast related to the book and 0:17:25.530 --> 0:17:30.570 kids younger people are like tend to like that medium 0:17:30.570 --> 0:17:30.990 as well. 0:17:31.290 --> 0:17:33.750 Yeah definitely. Well here we are in a podcast talking 0:17:33.750 --> 0:17:35.780 about a podcast but just you you have one and 0:17:36.970 --> 0:17:42.440 I asked about. Because the times don't always go wonderfully. 0:17:43.350 --> 0:17:47.990 And mostly we run into some bumps as as families 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:52.530 and and certainly as investors would say there is always 0:17:52.530 --> 0:17:56.699 uncertainty around the corner at times. How. How dangerous to 0:17:56.700 --> 0:17:59.780 the family fabric can be that uncertainty do you think. 0:18:00.820 --> 0:18:06.169 Oh it can be very very dangerous. And so you 0:18:06.170 --> 0:18:08.600 know I mean there's no certainty in life. It's not 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:14.550 like you know wealth or anything can guarantee certainty. I 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:17.180 think one of the benefits of wealth and there are 0:18:17.390 --> 0:18:20.570 pros and cons of wealth interestingly enough one of the 0:18:20.570 --> 0:18:23.570 benefits is it does. It has the potential to bring 0:18:23.570 --> 0:18:27.440 some level of certainty on some level of reduced anxiety 0:18:27.450 --> 0:18:30.090 in the sense that you're not worrying about you know 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.380 a roof over your head or you're not worrying about 0:18:33.470 --> 0:18:36.170 where your next meal or not where you keep going 0:18:36.170 --> 0:18:40.670 to school. The more resources you have it takes away 0:18:40.670 --> 0:18:44.810 some of those worries but it still really doesn't change 0:18:45.380 --> 0:18:47.750 what can happen to kids you know and. 0:18:49.220 --> 0:18:51.980 I just was reading an article today in fact from 0:18:53.180 --> 0:18:55.939 a dean of the university and just talking about the 0:18:56.000 --> 0:19:03.050 massive rise in anxiety and depression of young people at 0:19:03.050 --> 0:19:07.250 university in the last three or four years. 0:19:07.550 --> 0:19:11.270 And so obviously people are going to university and U.S. 0:19:11.420 --> 0:19:15.710 colleges are our families have some kind of wealth to 0:19:16.220 --> 0:19:18.649 accomplish that. And these are these are wealthy families to 0:19:18.650 --> 0:19:21.350 some extent and kids are still going through that. So 0:19:21.650 --> 0:19:24.530 I think you know I don't think it's avoidable entirely. 0:19:24.530 --> 0:19:27.650 And again back to the idea of not helping kids 0:19:27.820 --> 0:19:32.220 with all natural consequences. Some of that is driven by 0:19:32.220 --> 0:19:37.400 it by our society and parents who are pushing kids 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.960 to achieve more and more and more and there's a 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.310 great chapter in the book called How can you help 0:19:43.310 --> 0:19:45.830 children thrive and will focus on success. 0:19:46.550 --> 0:19:49.910 And it's a great piece because it's you know everybody 0:19:49.910 --> 0:19:53.990 wants their children to do well but by pushing them 0:19:54.410 --> 0:19:58.740 to achieve in sports or in academic sorry and in 0:19:59.150 --> 0:20:03.229 so many other areas it can cause tension on family 0:20:03.230 --> 0:20:06.470 half or those things can continue well beyond children being 0:20:06.470 --> 0:20:11.459 young money tensions can can last or can occur all 0:20:11.500 --> 0:20:13.850 the way along the family continuum especially when kids get 0:20:13.850 --> 0:20:14.600 older as well. 0:20:14.630 --> 0:20:17.870 So there's unfortunately there's no silver bullet at all. 0:20:17.890 --> 0:20:23.090 But but communication and safe space to have conversations and 0:20:23.410 --> 0:20:26.690 some healthy routines are certainly some of the answers in 0:20:26.690 --> 0:20:30.830 examining this comprehensively as you have and spending the time 0:20:30.830 --> 0:20:33.919 that you have in the area of wealth management. 0:20:34.130 --> 0:20:37.639 You must be able now to recognize some of the 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:41.030 changes some of the shifts in family dynamics you've alluded 0:20:41.030 --> 0:20:44.390 to them earlier that the presence of two income families 0:20:44.390 --> 0:20:49.129 the busy ness of everybody. And I wonder whether you're 0:20:49.130 --> 0:20:53.270 noticing now that we have to in a sense reconsider 0:20:54.290 --> 0:20:59.720 the way in which we're where we're managing our wealth 0:21:00.140 --> 0:21:04.520 to accept the fact that in many cases our children 0:21:05.030 --> 0:21:07.820 don't necessarily share the same values as we do. As 0:21:07.820 --> 0:21:09.909 they grow yes. 0:21:09.940 --> 0:21:12.729 And then if they don't what does that mean. We 0:21:12.730 --> 0:21:15.580 don't get the money. Does that mean. You know I 0:21:15.580 --> 0:21:20.790 think I know there's a very good piece about a 0:21:21.010 --> 0:21:23.869 couple of pieces in the book about how you find 0:21:23.869 --> 0:21:26.890 the balance between appealing to the title of your How 0:21:26.890 --> 0:21:30.920 can family support and both individuality and the shared dream. 0:21:30.990 --> 0:21:33.580 And that really is the challenge you know. Somebody said 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.960 you can do there's two legacy gifts you give your children. 0:21:36.970 --> 0:21:40.390 One is roots and the other is when it reaches 0:21:40.600 --> 0:21:43.240 safety and knowing who they are and knowing who they 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:47.110 can count on. But Wings is about differentiation. And what 0:21:47.109 --> 0:21:49.910 if my kids had quite different values from me. 0:21:50.119 --> 0:21:53.470 Know there's certainly one that would be very jarring in 0:21:53.470 --> 0:21:56.710 the family but it's really important that parents realize that 0:21:56.710 --> 0:21:59.320 the people are individual people and they are going to 0:21:59.320 --> 0:22:03.070 choose their own path. And I did this values exercise 0:22:03.369 --> 0:22:05.560 testing them with my own family a number of years 0:22:05.570 --> 0:22:09.790 ago probably 10 years ago and these 25 values cards 0:22:09.790 --> 0:22:13.990 with words on them like integrity and family and power 0:22:13.990 --> 0:22:16.810 and pleasure and tradition and so on and so forth. 0:22:16.810 --> 0:22:19.919 And my daughter didn't her serve and her cards and 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.210 my wife serve the tours and my wife the number 0:22:22.210 --> 0:22:26.080 one values tradition and my daughter's number 25 value is tradition. 0:22:26.830 --> 0:22:30.520 So that spawned a really really interesting conversation. Yeah. Now 0:22:30.580 --> 0:22:34.240 interesting enough over time we realized that I thought actually 0:22:34.240 --> 0:22:35.830 not totally true. Well we are going to get rid 0:22:35.830 --> 0:22:38.100