Speaker 1: Welcome to be Ivy. Today the Daily Business podcast from
Speaker 1: business in Vancouver newspaper and by the dot com. I'm
Speaker 1: Hayley wood. Today on the show crypto currencies and cyber
Speaker 1: security we'll get a cryptocurrency exchange executive's perspective on the
Speaker 1: Quadriga sex scandal and 440.
Speaker 2: That's the average number of cyber attacks organizations in Canada experience.
Speaker 2: Each year we'll speak to scalar decisions about how to
Speaker 2: remain cyber resilient at your company. Coming up on Thursday
Speaker 2: February 21st we're going to be exploring the due diligence
Speaker 2: and valuation involved with buying a business. If you ever
Speaker 2: considered selling a business this is the best place to
Speaker 2: be we're going to walk through all of the elements
Speaker 2: that buyers take into account when looking for acquisitions. Our
Speaker 2: panel will also share insights into what can make or
Speaker 2: break a deal. I'll be moderating and I hope to
Speaker 2: see some of you there and once you've mastered how
Speaker 2: to buy a business you can join us on February
Speaker 2: 28 to learn how to successfully exit business. This is
Speaker 2: our annual retirement ready. Panel will walk through how to
Speaker 2: retire well wealthy and healthy. Both events are in the
Speaker 2: afternoon at the Shangri-La Hotel. More information on those events
Speaker 2: and our other events is available at BBB dot com
Speaker 2: slash events. You're listening to VIP today. Quadriga C X
Speaker 2: is a Vancouver based company that says it's out of
Speaker 2: money where the money went to why it has disappeared
Speaker 2: is being debated in court this week. Some one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifteen thousand traders though are asking where and how
Speaker 2: they can get back 260 million dollars. This is a
Speaker 2: big story that's developing by the day. I'm joined this
Speaker 2: morning by Michael Vogel founder of net coins which is
Speaker 2: a Vancouver based cryptocurrency exchange to talk a little bit
Speaker 2: more about this. Michael thanks for coming on the show.
Speaker 2: Oh good morning. Thanks for having me. I think everyone's
Speaker 2: wondering what happened here but maybe you could shed some
Speaker 2: light on how something like this could happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's an extremely bizarre story. So avid encrypted
Speaker 3: crypto currency euros that have been using Quadriga over the
Speaker 3: last year have noted issues with slow withdrawal times not
Speaker 3: being able to take five years out or taking a
Speaker 3: long time for deposits to be credited but to make
Speaker 3: things even more complicated and confusing this new story emerged
Speaker 3: about their founder mysteriously dying in India and apparently along
Speaker 3: with that access to his laptop and passwords and private
Speaker 3: keys which apparently contained the keys to the kingdom which
Speaker 3: is about 190 million dollars of funds that were stored
Speaker 3: on Quadriga FCX. So very bizarre indeed unusual that a
Speaker 3: company of that size would that would only have one
Speaker 3: person to two to manage that that amount of funds.
Speaker 3: So it's left a lot of people wondering is this
Speaker 3: a scam. Is this real. And more importantly not as
Speaker 3: a customer how can we get our funds back.
Speaker 2: Exactly. A lot of people waiting for answers. And to
Speaker 2: me this really highlights the regulatory environment or maybe the
Speaker 2: lack of regulations around products like this. Tell me a
Speaker 2: little bit about how a cryptocurrency exchange and the regulations
Speaker 2: around that differs from say a more traditional exchange.
Speaker 3: Yes. So essentially a cryptocurrency exchange allows users to buy
Speaker 3: sell and then trade Bitcoin. It's a lot like a
Speaker 3: stock exchange or like an online banking account where you
Speaker 3: trade stocks and bonds and whatnot. But with the added
Speaker 3: difference that you can then withdraw the bitcoins from that
Speaker 3: exchange as opposed to a stock exchange you can't really
Speaker 3: withdraw from there. So the problem is that when you
Speaker 3: have one of those on an exchange you're essentially giving
Speaker 3: control of your bitcoins to that exchange. So if if
Speaker 3: you and I were to download a what's called a
Speaker 3: bitcoin wallet like an app on our phone and store
Speaker 3: bitcoins there we're essentially in total control of those coins.
Speaker 3: But when you're using a third party like an exchange
Speaker 3: when coins are stored there you're essentially giving them control.
Speaker 3: And so you have no real way to access funds
Speaker 3: without their permission. And so what would have happened here
Speaker 3: is obviously when the company essentially loses access to those
Speaker 3: coins you as a user have no way to reach
Speaker 3: them either. So what is what this story has really
Speaker 3: done is given us another reminder of how different Bitcoin
Speaker 3: is compared to traditional stocks and other investment tools where
Speaker 3: this is where bitcoin you become your own bank you're
Speaker 3: responsible for controlling your bitcoins and so if you are
Speaker 3: going to use an exchange the best practice really is
Speaker 3: just to use it for a purpose of buying and selling.
Speaker 3: Don't store coins there long term. Although you would hope
Speaker 3: to think that a company like Quadriga was one hundred
Speaker 3: ninety million in assets would would have had better protection.
Speaker 3: But clearly they did. So what what you recommend if
Speaker 3: they say don't store things with a third party long term.
Speaker 2: Right. That sounds like good advice and also as you
Speaker 2: pointed out I mean it framing it like becoming your
Speaker 2: own bank puts a lot of onus and responsibility on
Speaker 2: an individual to really understand what they're buying and how
Speaker 2: those systems work. Tell me a little bit about how
Speaker 2: the regulatory frameworks in countries is evolving around products like
Speaker 2: bitcoin because governments and securities commissions to some extent have
Speaker 2: been scrambling a little bit to catch up it seems
Speaker 2: no for sure.
Speaker 3: I mean so in Canada the government has essentially taking
Speaker 3: a wait and see approach in terms of regulation that's
Speaker 3: been the policy for many years. There may be some
Speaker 3: some future of regulation coming just in terms of how
Speaker 3: customers are identified and record keeping. But in general Bitcoin
Speaker 3: is a very different animal. It's designed separate from traditional
Speaker 3: banking frameworks and financial regulation. You know countries like China
Speaker 3: and other countries around the world at various times tempted
Speaker 3: to quote unquote ban bitcoin but really because it's just
Speaker 3: an internet token it's not really feasible to ban or
Speaker 3: control it because it's not really controlled by a one
Speaker 3: on one company like bitcoin itself.
Speaker 4: Owned by Microsoft or like a standalone company that could
Speaker 4: be shut down. That's what that's what's called a decentralized currency.
Speaker 4: So attempts to regulate it may simply be futile and
Speaker 4: may not even be necessary. And then in the traditional
Speaker 4: way that we think of regulation. But yeah so that's
Speaker 4: sort of my initial thought on it.
Speaker 2: Yes that's an interesting way of looking at it. I'm
Speaker 2: curious do you think a case like this where it's
Speaker 2: affected a large number of people there's a lot of
Speaker 2: money at stake. Might it turn some heads in government
Speaker 2: offices to say well you know maybe it's difficult to
Speaker 2: regulate but this wait and see approach maybe we've waited
Speaker 2: and now we're going to see what we can do.
Speaker 5: Yeah I know for sure and you know stories like
Speaker 5: this definitely aren't aren't good for bitcoin in general they don't.
Speaker 5: They don't boost confidence although Bitcoin itself wasn't actually compromised
Speaker 5: in the story. Bitcoin was was not packed or or
Speaker 5: or stolen or disappeared.
Speaker 3: It was dismissed as a result of Puerto Rico's intervention.
Speaker 3: So Bitcoin itself is still robust but what it does
Speaker 3: really bring up is you know if a crypto currency
Speaker 3: exchange is going to operate in a country like Canada
Speaker 3: or the United States troops there should be more clearly
Speaker 3: defined rules about how funds are stored or insurance policies
Speaker 3: actually banks personal bank accounts are insured by CIC up
Speaker 3: to a hundred thousand dollars so yes the bank disappears
Speaker 3: or goes bankrupt and then mostly some insurance coverage there
Speaker 3: poorly supported like that might be interesting. We may see
Speaker 3: stuff like that happening in the year going forward but
Speaker 3: you know the flipside is any type of new technology
Speaker 3: you don't naturally want to overregulate because you sort of
Speaker 3: run the risk of stifling innovation. Right.
Speaker 5: So I mean think about the Internet when it came
Speaker 5: out there actually were were periods of controversy around things
Speaker 5: like encryption and you know who gets to control the
Speaker 5: encryption algorithms. There was big surprise was with the bill
Speaker 5: clinton government back in the 90s about control of the
Speaker 5: Internet and you know if we think about it the
Speaker 5: Internet was over regulated way back in the day then
Speaker 5: the Internet today probably wouldn't exist. And so hardcore bitcoin
Speaker 5: fanatics have that same feeling right. Bitcoin is a very
Speaker 5: very revolutionary technology. It's fundamental. So if we overregulate it
Speaker 5: we do we ruin the potential future of what it promises.
Speaker 2: Where do we find ourselves at the start of 2019
Speaker 2: when it comes to the cryptocurrency craze and the bitcoin
Speaker 2: craze that we saw over the last couple of years
Speaker 2: it seems like there are so many companies popping up
Speaker 2: so many exchanges a ways to buy and sell and
Speaker 2: trade and do whatever you want. It seems to have
Speaker 2: died down a little bit. What's your take on what's
Speaker 2: happened in the industry.
Speaker 5: Yeah it's very interesting. So I've been in this space
Speaker 5: since late 2013 or early 2014 when I founded neck wide.
Speaker 5: And yeah the history has gone through many phases. So
Speaker 5: when I started in Bitcoin is really thought of as
Speaker 5: this obscure weird nerd money it was trading for around
Speaker 5: 200 dollars or. People thought that there was no real
Speaker 5: application here it's just a very very niche audience but
Speaker 5: you get different different types of users entering that ecosystem
Speaker 5: over the years and over the last year or so
Speaker 5: the year before 2017 we saw Bitcoin cross 1000 dollars U.S.
Speaker 5: for one point and then later on in the year
Speaker 5: it crossed ten thousand dollars for one point and it
Speaker 5: almost reached twenty thousand dollars for one point. So 2017
Speaker 5: is probably the first year that it really entered quote
Speaker 5: unquote the mainstream. The initial wave of that and obviously
Speaker 5: people watch the price of bitcoin and when it's up
Speaker 5: and down because big emotional stars but I mean it's
Speaker 5: still a very new assets right I mean if we
Speaker 5: look at the daily volume of big ones that are
Speaker 5: traded in vs. the daily volume of MasterCard payments or
Speaker 5: visa payment.
Speaker 4: Bitcoin is still an emerging industry.
Speaker 5: So I think we'll see hiccups like this along the
Speaker 5: way as the industry figured itself out. The stories like
Speaker 5: the quite the quandary because of the world and Quadriga
Speaker 5: in the first exchange to go down will be hacked etc..
Speaker 5: So I think these types of stories while they're bad
Speaker 5: there are learning outcomes from this. You know it helps
Speaker 5: customers learn better ways to store their bitcoins and it
Speaker 5: helps the industry grow up in general. Of best practices
Speaker 5: right I mean every currency crypto currency exchange doesn't want
Speaker 5: to end up like what we got. If they want
Speaker 5: to have better protection better controls and even internally at
Speaker 5: not going to to the session that we've had many
Speaker 5: times it was you know we were shocked when we
Speaker 5: learned about the Puerto rigging story because obviously you know
Speaker 5: our company was set up that way and other large
Speaker 5: companies like coin square Coinbase etc aren't set up that
Speaker 5: way either. So yeah I think the industry definitely has
Speaker 5: to mature and I think it's only good good thing
Speaker 5: that has I think for anyone investing in Bitcoin or
Speaker 5: Britain related companies. I think you know we started very
Speaker 5: very blue sky future ahead of us.
Speaker 2: Michael I want to thank you for coming on the
Speaker 2: show to shed some light on what's going on here
Speaker 2: we may have to have you back in a week
Speaker 2: or so when we find out more what's going on
Speaker 2: with this case. But for now really appreciate your insight.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 6: Oh for sure. Anytime. As Michael Vogel founder of net
Speaker 6: coins based here in Vancouver. Canadian organizations on average experienced
Speaker 6: 440 cyber attacks over the last year. That and recovery
Speaker 6: costs after those attacks has reached an all time high.
Speaker 6: The 2019 scalar security study is out it's its fifth
Speaker 6: annual iteration and Theo van Wick the company's chief technology
Speaker 6: officer of security joins me now on the line from
Speaker 6: Toronto to discuss how companies can build a greater cyber resilience.
Speaker 6: Theo thanks so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 7: You're very welcome. Thank you for having me on the show.
Speaker 6: So looking at this survey you you surveyed more than
Speaker 6: 400 I.T. professionals across industries and small through enterprise organizations.
Speaker 6: I found one hundred percent of them had experienced a
Speaker 6: cyber attack over the last year. Is this the new
Speaker 6: normal is this to be expected.
Speaker 7: You know what it is it's actually it's actually very
Speaker 7: interesting to your point. You know this is the fifth
Speaker 7: iteration of us doing the annual study and every year
Speaker 7: we've seen high percentages of reports in terms of numbers
Speaker 7: of organizations attacked and breach but this period actually astounded
Speaker 7: us when we found for the first time that 100
Speaker 7: percent of our respondents reported being attacked and in some
Speaker 7: form impacted with an incident. We believe unfortunately this is
Speaker 7: the new norm. At the same time I don't think
Speaker 7: this is as new I think we're becoming more whereas
Speaker 7: organizations and we're becoming better at detecting and tracing this
Speaker 7: but it is definitely setting the tone that cyber resilience
Speaker 7: is becoming more and more important and critical for Canadian organizations.
Speaker 2: And how would you define the term cyber resilience. What
Speaker 2: does that mean.
Speaker 7: You know it's not traditionally in our field. We tend
Speaker 7: to talk about cybersecurity and it's been historically the theme
Speaker 7: of a lot of study. The challenge for us was
Speaker 7: cyber security because it places customers and employees in the
Speaker 7: concept of a pure defensive strategy where they're just thinking
Speaker 7: about strategies to prevent and once that fails in the
Speaker 7: cybersecurity program effectively fails. The reality is as we see
Speaker 7: here companies are breached all the time. And so cyber
Speaker 7: resilience for us becomes a frame of mind. It becomes
Speaker 7: a state of readiness where defense is very important and
Speaker 7: critical part of that strategy. But ultimately it's about thinking
Speaker 7: holistically about how do we deal with the toxic situations
Speaker 7: so that we can survive that attack and that it's
Speaker 7: business as usual and we can carry on we always
Speaker 7: use the cold the cold or flu analogy if you
Speaker 7: will where we tell people that at some stage in
Speaker 7: your life you will get a cold or flu. It's
Speaker 7: really critical is how you prevent that right. There's a
Speaker 7: preventative element to that. But if you do then get
Speaker 7: sick you're not sitting well is detecting it it's understanding
Speaker 7: where where the issue lies and identifying it and then
Speaker 7: having a response plans understanding how you treat yourself and
Speaker 7: how you overcome that.
Speaker 2: And while that might be a simple analogy the point
Speaker 2: that's very applicable as you start thinking about cyber resilience
Speaker 2: for companies sticking with that analogy this study points out
Speaker 2: that the costs of carrying these calls are rising year
Speaker 2: over year it looks like it costs companies on average
Speaker 2: between four point eight and five point eight million dollars
Speaker 2: after a cyber breach has occurred. Tell me why these
Speaker 2: costs are rising and very typically how companies respond to
Speaker 2: maybe what some of the challenges are too in responding
Speaker 2: to these attacks.
Speaker 7: Absolutely. You're correct. We have noticed a rise in the
Speaker 7: and numbers. Now the one thing to be very honest
Speaker 7: and upfront about is there's a great variation in how
Speaker 7: companies calculate these costs but the reality is what we're
Speaker 7: seeing is attackers are getting more effective at getting into
Speaker 7: the networks they're getting more effective at getting at the
Speaker 7: data so and then just companies are becoming more aware
Speaker 7: of the impact that this is actually having under on
Speaker 7: their networks and on their services. So I think it's
Speaker 7: a combination of the attacks are increasing in effectiveness but
Speaker 7: as a whole as an audit as a as an
Speaker 7: industry we're becoming better at defining it and realizing what
Speaker 7: the challenges are. We actually have on hand one of
Speaker 7: the interesting figures that we tried to drive out because
Speaker 7: personally I always struggle with these large numbers to see
Speaker 7: this in the study. So what we try to do
Speaker 7: is we drive a number that highlights the per employee
Speaker 7: cost for a breach average. So this year we found
Speaker 7: it to be around two thousand six hundred seventy seven
Speaker 7: dollars or about twenty seven hundred dollars an employee. And
Speaker 7: that's important because if you're a smaller company or you
Speaker 7: know depending on how you picture your company you can
Speaker 7: do a quick bit of mental math and plug those
Speaker 7: numbers in there. And I have a number that perhaps
Speaker 7: is a little bit more relevant to you. But the
Speaker 7: reality is it doesn't matter how you slice or dice
Speaker 7: it it's the downtime and the impact are significant to
Speaker 7: companies in terms of asking what companies can do. You
Speaker 7: know there's the security basics. And one of the key
Speaker 7: finding recommendations that we drive here is work on your
Speaker 7: cyber resilience program. And that just means that thinking through
Speaker 7: things like incident response plan just having a response ready
Speaker 7: so that you're not caught off guard and so you
Speaker 7: walk through that step you think how do I prepare.
Speaker 8: How do I respond whereas my important assets and then
Speaker 8: have that response plan ready so that you can jump
Speaker 8: in and address it and minimize the impact that the
Speaker 8: actual breach has on your organization.
Speaker 2: So it would be just like having a crisis communications
Speaker 2: plan or an emergency preparedness preparedness plan except you would
Speaker 2: have that in the case of cyber threats correct.
Speaker 8: Yes. So this is something where a lot of our
Speaker 8: customers work with either ourselves or their security partners and
Speaker 8: what they're doing here is they're building that up and
Speaker 8: it's a little bit all encompassing program. So this includes
Speaker 8: things like your PR response like how does your public
Speaker 8: relations response. What's the legal aspect. So it goes further
Speaker 8: than just the technology. But then obviously a very integral
Speaker 8: part is how do I keep seeing that threat. From
Speaker 8: a technology perspective. And who are the correct key key
Speaker 8: stakeholders that I have to bring in very quickly and
Speaker 8: effectively to contain that breach and to return to a
Speaker 8: trusted normal state.
Speaker 2: On that point of containment the report points out that
Speaker 2: one potential vulnerability when it comes to issues like this
Speaker 2: is third party security. So even if you yourself tend
Speaker 2: to be a very cyber secure or resilient organization if
Speaker 2: you're dealing with companies that aren't that could be a risk.
Speaker 2: What kind of recommendations do you have for companies in
Speaker 2: terms of how they work with their partners.
Speaker 7: So absolutely right. It's a massive issue and you look
Speaker 7: for to to further your point.
Speaker 8: If we think about some of the large breaches that's
Speaker 8: occurred in the last little while we think of the
Speaker 8: best buys in the home because the brand names but
Speaker 8: very few people can actually name the third party organization
Speaker 8: that caused the breach behind the big label if you will.
Speaker 8: So it's definitely something to be aware of. What we
Speaker 8: recommend there is understand your partners. It becomes part of
Speaker 8: that cyber resilience and that security strategy. Right. And it's
Speaker 8: looking at things like does the third party vendors or
Speaker 8: organization have access only to the data that they really
Speaker 8: need access to. What are their internal security controls. Do
Speaker 8: they have a good security posture. Because obviously if you're
Speaker 8: working with somebody and you're giving them access to it's
Speaker 8: deep into your network or security or trust it's basis
Speaker 8: and they do not have a good posture that's something
Speaker 8: to be concerned about. And as part of that there's
Speaker 8: a number of governance frameworks and security frameworks that companies
Speaker 8: these days will adhere to and get certified again. And
Speaker 8: that really becomes to some extent approved you just so
Speaker 8: show that they have security in mind when they're structuring
Speaker 8: their services. And then when they interact with you as well.
Speaker 2: One of the recommendations in the report as well is
Speaker 2: identifying and classifying data assets in the study found that
Speaker 2: some of the attacks are quite significant on companies. They
Speaker 2: either had their data stolen deleted encrypted. I mean these
Speaker 2: can be very very serious privacy issues and operational issues.
Speaker 2: What does it mean to identify and classify assets and
Speaker 2: how can that actually help in situations like this.
Speaker 8: So when we work with our customers we would typically
Speaker 8: recommend a thread risk assessment as a first step. And
Speaker 8: that's a risk assessment does exactly that. So it identifies
Speaker 8: the upside and it ties the business function to it.
Speaker 8: So then you can start understanding if this computer or
Speaker 8: the server or this device or the area of the
Speaker 8: network gets compromised. What does that translate to in a
Speaker 8: business process for me is it impacting actual customer facing services.
Speaker 8: Is this where complex sensitive data lives. And so the
Speaker 8: first step in that is just it's really difficult to
Speaker 8: protect what you don't understand or if you don't know
Speaker 8: that you have it and you don't have a disability.
Speaker 8: So that first step is understand your business and how
Speaker 8: your business is using data and services. And then we
Speaker 8: design your security plan around that so that you you
Speaker 8: secure the critical assets in the different areas. But it
Speaker 8: also becomes very important in your response plan and understanding
Speaker 8: when and how quickly you should respond and how you
Speaker 8: should apply your tactic. The other item where it becomes
Speaker 8: really important is it helps you prioritize your security spend
Speaker 8: because let's face it we're not we do not have
Speaker 8: unlimited pockets at some stage you have to decide where
Speaker 8: and how you place your dollars so that you actually
Speaker 8: improve that security posture. And this is really key. And
Speaker 8: you know how do you apply those dollars if you
Speaker 8: don't understand where the proverbial crown jewels or important information
Speaker 8: is reside.
Speaker 6: All right. That's the challenge they're having unlimited funds. Correct. Yes.
Speaker 2: I think of small businesses who are often going to
Speaker 2: be takers of technology and services working with companies that
Speaker 2: are much larger than them relying on their services and
Speaker 2: products that kind of then means that they're assuming these
Speaker 2: companies are doing their own due diligence and taking steps
Speaker 2: necessary to be cyber resilient in the shoes of a
Speaker 2: small company or entrepreneur what can they do to make
Speaker 2: sure that the partners they work with are secure and
Speaker 2: that they're doing everything they can to keep their operations safe.
Speaker 8: So I think you know develop a relationship to ask
Speaker 8: the question. I understand sometimes being a smaller firm that's
Speaker 8: not always possible is not always possible to have the
Speaker 8: ear of the larger organization. But again this is something
Speaker 8: where you can then pull back and looking at certifications
Speaker 8: and there was somebody missed or ISO twenty seven thousand
Speaker 8: one or some form of framework certified that will actually
Speaker 8: attest to the fact that they that they are adhering
Speaker 8: to security principles and they're thinking about it. And then
Speaker 8: on the flipside you know there's something to be said
Speaker 8: about the self-awareness. We just talked about the thread risk
Speaker 8: assessment and understanding what your process is and your data
Speaker 8: looks like and understanding when you're partnering with these larger firms. What.
Speaker 8: To what extent do they have access to your technology
Speaker 8: or your information and what the possible implications are about
Speaker 8: it and it is something unfortunately that you have to
Speaker 8: assess on a case by case basis and be aware of.
Speaker 8: But in general we find that the landscape the temperature
Speaker 8: of the landscape has changed and most organizations now realize
Speaker 8: the criticality of having that security approach or that security narrative.
Speaker 8: So it fortunately it is becoming a lot more a
Speaker 8: lot easier and more convenient to establish that.
Speaker 2: And a final question What should we be looking out
Speaker 2: for him. You know my quarantine folder is a pretty
Speaker 2: good job of keeping out fishy emails but when it
Speaker 2: comes to more sophisticated attacks what should employees and employers
Speaker 2: be looking for and where he so if we if
Speaker 2: we focus on the employee side definitely you know you
Speaker 2: point the number one that fishing is still such a
Speaker 2: massive attack.
Speaker 8: It remains the human element. It's always the area that
Speaker 8: the attackers love to exploit. And for that it's just
Speaker 8: have an inquisitive mind. We find a lot of times
Speaker 8: a lot of interesting attacks have been thwarted because somebody
Speaker 8: asked the right question. So if you get that e-mail
Speaker 8: from finance asking you to transfer twenty thousand dollars that
Speaker 8: happened to you just under the limit that need approval.
Speaker 8: Now pick up the phone. Give the CFO a quick
Speaker 8: call and say hey are you sure this is the
Speaker 8: amount I need to transfer. You know it's such a
Speaker 8: simple measure but it's like little items like that really
Speaker 8: does help. And then to employers it's just a matter
Speaker 8: of Invest in your training programs. One of the study
Speaker 8: results we had we found is that there's still a
Speaker 8: significant amount of companies we're talking about around 30 percent
Speaker 8: that's a lot that's lacking training programs for employees security
Speaker 8: awareness and others. And you know invest in your employees.
Speaker 8: They are your main line of defense. They're also the
Speaker 8: area that a lot of attackers will come into contact
Speaker 8: first in in one form or another. And the benefits
Speaker 8: to that then becomes those same principles are things to
Speaker 8: your point that you take back to your home boss
Speaker 8: or to your own digital life. Let's face it we're
Speaker 8: not we're not getting less technology integrated every day. So
Speaker 8: be aware of those things practice some of those own
Speaker 8: principles on your own home and personal security and make
Speaker 8: them make it a habit. Make it a way of
Speaker 8: thinking so that you have that it doesn't mind and
Speaker 8: ask the questions. One other key item for employers to
Speaker 8: get a process in place that educates employees to report
Speaker 8: and ask questions. So if there's no you know with
Speaker 8: the product kids you can talk to that direct contact.
Speaker 8: Have a 1 800 number or help line or inbox
Speaker 8: where an employee can fire a quick question and get
Speaker 8: a bit of a response in a decent timeframe to
Speaker 8: just report or just ask the question if they're if
Speaker 8: they're curious or if they find something that is suspicious.
Speaker 6: Theo van Wick is the chief technology officer of security
Speaker 6: at scalar decisions. Theo thank you so much for coming
Speaker 6: on the show today.
Speaker 7: Thank you very much. Have a nice day.
Speaker 6: That's it for our show. Thanks for listening to be
Speaker 6: Ivy today in get notified of new episodes by subscribing
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Speaker 6: all of our episodes and read watch listen to more
Speaker 6: business news at Ivy dot com. I'm Hayley wooden. Thanks
Speaker 6: again for listening. We'll be back after the long weekend on.