WEBVTT - The Four-Day Work Week: Episode 1 0:00:02.790 --> 0:00:10.140 The tortoise. A podcast that digs deep. Into the power 0:00:10.140 --> 0:00:15.210 of slow. I'm your host, Brooke McAlary, and I am 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:17.640 joined by my husband, Ben McElroy. 0:00:18.510 --> 0:00:22.650 What beautiful bird noises we're hearing outside. 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:24.869 Unedited baby. 0:00:26.010 --> 0:00:29.730 What birds are those? That's a that's a cockatoo. That's 0:00:29.730 --> 0:00:31.380 a white cockatoo. And one of those. 0:00:31.950 --> 0:00:32.880 Songs, I think. 0:00:33.690 --> 0:00:36.420 So it's just been raining here, and I feel like 0:00:36.420 --> 0:00:39.200 they always do it once it's rained. 0:00:39.210 --> 0:00:43.470 Carol Wong's and Magpies love their warbling caroling sounds. 0:00:45.030 --> 0:00:49.020 Then non stop. It's nice. It is nice. It's really nice. 0:00:49.110 --> 0:00:54.360 Welcome to episode one of the Tortoise. What a momentous occasion. 0:00:54.690 --> 0:00:56.459 Isn't it just. Isn't it? Isn't it? 0:00:57.960 --> 0:01:00.150 I guess we wanted to first of all, just go 0:01:00.150 --> 0:01:05.430 through what it is the format of the podcast moving forward, 0:01:05.580 --> 0:01:07.950 because it's going to be obviously different to the Slow 0:01:07.950 --> 0:01:11.580 Home podcast. But we're going to be coming back to 0:01:11.580 --> 0:01:15.000 a number of, I don't know, reoccurring topics, if you like, 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.750 throughout the episodes. 0:01:19.110 --> 0:01:22.260 Yeah, yeah, kind of segments, almost for want of a 0:01:22.260 --> 0:01:23.190 better word segment. 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:25.920 That sounds highly produced. 0:01:26.220 --> 0:01:28.680 Well, this is not that. So take that back. 0:01:30.180 --> 0:01:34.260 Yeah. So we want to kick off today's conversation, talking 0:01:34.260 --> 0:01:41.030 about a topic that. I've been working on, if you like, 0:01:41.030 --> 0:01:47.790 or kind of the. Deliberating on. Yes. For for a 0:01:47.790 --> 0:01:53.670 couple of months. And we also want to the idea 0:01:53.670 --> 0:01:56.400 behind this podcast is to deep dive onto a topic 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.830 into a topic. So we've read quite a lot on 0:01:58.830 --> 0:02:03.630 the topic. We're not going to not always cite resources, 0:02:03.630 --> 0:02:06.360 but it's just our observations based on what we've read 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.580 and what we've heard and what we've looked at. 0:02:08.700 --> 0:02:12.360 And viewing stuff through the lens of SLO, you know, 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.419 and the lens that we've developed ourselves over many years 0:02:15.419 --> 0:02:22.429 of trying to live a slower kind of countercultural. Way 0:02:22.430 --> 0:02:25.940 of life, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of viewing. 0:02:26.940 --> 0:02:29.790 Things that they expand beyond the home. And I guess 0:02:29.790 --> 0:02:33.080 that's one of the things that I really. Wanted to 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.570 move away from. As much as I loved the slow 0:02:35.570 --> 0:02:40.820 home pod to move beyond that, you know, into work, 0:02:40.820 --> 0:02:43.220 into community, into health, into family, into all that sort 0:02:43.220 --> 0:02:48.770 of stuff that didn't necessarily fit neatly into the conversation 0:02:48.770 --> 0:02:51.109 around home, even though we tried to be as expensive 0:02:51.110 --> 0:02:53.780 as possible with that, I think some of the stuff 0:02:53.780 --> 0:02:55.609 that we're going to tackle that we plan on tackling 0:02:55.610 --> 0:02:59.620 this year on the Tortoise is. It's just not necessarily 0:02:59.620 --> 0:03:02.950 stuff that we felt we could talk about on the 0:03:02.950 --> 0:03:06.760 podcast as it was. So yeah, I'm excited to be 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:11.340 able to do that with. Freedom, you know? Sounds like 0:03:11.340 --> 0:03:13.050 we were locked in. We weren't. But, you know, it 0:03:13.050 --> 0:03:14.190 just feels. 0:03:15.500 --> 0:03:18.290 Exciting. Yeah, it does. It really does. It feels refreshing. 0:03:18.290 --> 0:03:24.710 It feels. We've got our podcast, I got my Bud cast, baby. 0:03:25.669 --> 0:03:32.090 We've got our podcast format back, which is Feels nice. 0:03:32.090 --> 0:03:34.370 It does go nice. Yeah. So yeah, today we're going 0:03:34.370 --> 0:03:36.650 to dig into that topic and then we've also got 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:41.750 an article that I wanted to talk about because I 0:03:41.750 --> 0:03:44.150 kind of it's really nice, but it's all. 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:47.710 Yeah. 0:03:47.740 --> 0:03:49.930 Yeah. There's an article that I would like to talk 0:03:49.930 --> 0:03:52.630 about because it kind of came up over on the 0:03:52.630 --> 0:03:56.560 tortoise Substack a few weeks ago, and I've been thinking 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:57.940 about it a lot since, and then we're going to 0:03:57.940 --> 0:03:59.410 have a check in and. Yeah. 0:03:59.890 --> 0:04:04.390 All right. Well, that's the format. Very loose, but that's, 0:04:04.900 --> 0:04:07.480 I don't know, come to expect that because that's what 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:10.150 it's going to be like moving forward. So join with 0:04:10.150 --> 0:04:15.370 us now. Grab your favorite cup of something, whatever it is. 0:04:15.540 --> 0:04:19.840 Cup of Joe. Cup of water. Glass of water. What 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:20.740 are you drinking, bro? 0:04:21.100 --> 0:04:21.970 Absolutely nothing. 0:04:22.000 --> 0:04:26.230 Me neither. We need to probably hydrate. Let's get into it. 0:04:30.110 --> 0:04:32.539 Translation for that is Brooke, how are you? 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.630 Oh, I'm very well, Mr. Cockatoo. Thank you for asking. 0:04:36.470 --> 0:04:38.150 So this is a check in. We're going to do 0:04:38.150 --> 0:04:44.060 this every episode. So. Yeah. Tell us, how are you 0:04:44.060 --> 0:04:45.170 joining us today? 0:04:45.980 --> 0:04:50.210 Uh, I'm joining you wrapped in a blanket. I feel 0:04:50.210 --> 0:04:53.120 like I'm fighting off a virus if I'm being perfectly 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.109 transparent with you. But I'm all right. I went to 0:04:57.110 --> 0:04:59.960 bed at, like, 8:00 last night. I'm pretty early. Feeling 0:04:59.960 --> 0:05:05.360 well rested, felt necessary, and I'm good. I'm good. How 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:05.900 about you? 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:13.940 Um. I don't feel quite as rested. Disclosure. Recently, I. 0:05:13.940 --> 0:05:20.909 I invested in one of these. Fitness trackers. And become 0:05:20.910 --> 0:05:22.560 a kind of obsessed with it. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:24.810 This is the problem that people find with them. And you. 0:05:24.810 --> 0:05:25.500 Know what? I get it. 0:05:25.500 --> 0:05:27.900 I think I will be obsessed for the first two 0:05:27.900 --> 0:05:31.289 weeks and then I'll be like, That's my personality. It's like, okay, 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:33.990 this is cool and I'll obsess about it. And then 0:05:33.990 --> 0:05:37.229 I'll be like, Oh, that's not worth obsessing about. So 0:05:37.230 --> 0:05:39.930 it's like the length of like the optimal length of 0:05:39.930 --> 0:05:43.290 sleep you're getting and the quality of the sleep and 0:05:43.290 --> 0:05:46.710 your sleep score and recovery and strain and all that 0:05:46.710 --> 0:05:50.940 sort of stuff. So I'm, I'm lying in bed going, Ben, relax, 0:05:50.940 --> 0:05:54.360 because your sleep score isn't going to be good if 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.070 you don't go to sleep soon. 0:05:57.690 --> 0:05:59.910 I get it though. So I've worn one of those 0:05:59.910 --> 0:06:02.760 rings like a sleep tracking ring for a couple of years. 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:07.500 And the first probably month that I wore it, it 0:06:07.500 --> 0:06:12.230 was the first thing I'd check in the morning, you know, And. Uh, 0:06:12.230 --> 0:06:15.060 the nights that I would wake up in the morning, 0:06:15.100 --> 0:06:16.730 I felt like I had a pretty good sleep. And 0:06:16.730 --> 0:06:19.130 then I'd look at my sleep score and be like, 0:06:19.130 --> 0:06:22.010 it says, it was terrible. Oh, I'm so tired. Was 0:06:22.010 --> 0:06:24.620 I tired because my app told me that I didn't 0:06:24.620 --> 0:06:29.179 sleep well? Was I tired because I actually was tired? 0:06:29.180 --> 0:06:33.410 And you're right. Like that disappears after a while. It 0:06:33.410 --> 0:06:38.919 is still really helpful and really handy at tracking long term. 0:06:38.930 --> 0:06:39.530 It's good to be long. 0:06:39.529 --> 0:06:41.589 Term, right? Like it just can't be that short. 0:06:41.810 --> 0:06:43.909 But I think focusing on each night. 0:06:43.910 --> 0:06:44.750 Is that's. 0:06:44.750 --> 0:06:47.930 Going to be exhausting pretty quickly. Yeah. So I don't 0:06:47.930 --> 0:06:50.340 think I'll be obsessed with that moving forward. 0:06:50.390 --> 0:06:52.280 How was your sleep score last night, though? Just had a. 0:06:52.700 --> 0:06:53.839 90%. 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:57.080 It's pretty good. It's okay. It's pretty good. Yeah. I'm 0:06:57.080 --> 0:06:57.890 a sleeper. Yeah. 0:06:58.160 --> 0:06:59.599 You are. You're very talented. 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:00.950 I'm pretty good at sleeping. 0:07:02.930 --> 0:07:06.170 But. Yeah, so I feel. I feel okay. I feel okay. 0:07:06.170 --> 0:07:07.670 Yeah. You've been sick the. 0:07:07.670 --> 0:07:08.400 Last couple weeks. 0:07:08.420 --> 0:07:11.480 And look, all all the symptoms of COVID. But didn't 0:07:11.570 --> 0:07:15.440 have it. But just exhausted. Just maybe like the old 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:16.760 common cold. 0:07:17.180 --> 0:07:17.720 Right? 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.720 Yeah. Well, it's. It's going around. It's doing its thing. 0:07:20.750 --> 0:07:21.530 Doing its thing. 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:24.050 And it is sort of weird, isn't it, when you 0:07:24.050 --> 0:07:26.360 have a cold and you're like, but it's not COVID. 0:07:26.570 --> 0:07:28.850 And so you think people are going to be less 0:07:28.850 --> 0:07:33.620 sympathetic almost or. Yeah. Take you less, you know. 0:07:34.430 --> 0:07:35.300 Seriously. Seriously. 0:07:35.300 --> 0:07:37.460 Like, it's weird, isn't it? Yeah. It's still a cold. 0:07:37.460 --> 0:07:38.310 It's still were. 0:07:38.330 --> 0:07:40.850 You were sick. You were literally in bed for three days. So. 0:07:41.090 --> 0:07:44.030 And that does not really happen very often. Yeah. I'm 0:07:44.030 --> 0:07:44.900 glad you're feeling better. 0:07:45.500 --> 0:07:49.340 I'm feeling okay. So that's how. That's how we are today. 0:07:49.340 --> 0:07:50.600 Yep. As we. 0:07:50.900 --> 0:07:54.380 As we now move on to our, I guess, topic 0:07:54.380 --> 0:07:56.540 of the podcast. 0:07:56.750 --> 0:07:57.920 And do. 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.530 We think that plug I think podcast is funny, but 0:08:00.800 --> 0:08:02.150 I don't really know. 0:08:02.990 --> 0:08:03.740 Time will tell. 0:08:03.980 --> 0:08:04.530 Okay. 0:08:05.330 --> 0:08:08.660 So we're going to talk about this idea of the 0:08:08.660 --> 0:08:10.460 four day working week. 0:08:11.060 --> 0:08:11.510 Hot. 0:08:11.510 --> 0:08:12.830 Button issue in Australia. 0:08:12.830 --> 0:08:14.090 At the moment really is. 0:08:14.090 --> 0:08:18.050 Like countless articles that have been written in the media 0:08:18.050 --> 0:08:23.600 recently following two Australian political parties coming out recently and 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.739 putting forward a proposal or legislation for a four day 0:08:27.740 --> 0:08:33.590 workweek at full pay following a number of trials internationally. 0:08:33.590 --> 0:08:36.170 I think the US have led the way and I 0:08:36.170 --> 0:08:36.680 think the UK. 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:40.010 The UK as well. There was a number of trials. 0:08:40.010 --> 0:08:41.839 There was there was a trial in Australia that has 0:08:41.840 --> 0:08:43.520 just ended and I think that a lot of the 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:47.569 findings have gone into the report that was put towards 0:08:47.570 --> 0:08:53.300 the parliamentary committee recently because it was overwhelmingly positive. Yeah, funny. 0:08:53.300 --> 0:08:54.110 That well, this. 0:08:54.110 --> 0:08:57.260 Is the this is what we're seeing is that almost 0:08:57.260 --> 0:09:02.510 every article, 99% of the articles I've read, they're the 0:09:02.510 --> 0:09:08.620 results are all very, very positive from not only. Uh, the, 0:09:08.670 --> 0:09:11.670 the mental aspect of a mental health aspect of it, 0:09:11.670 --> 0:09:16.530 but from productivity, from morale, all the all like you 0:09:16.530 --> 0:09:19.380 look at all the indicators and they're all very, very positive. 0:09:19.740 --> 0:09:22.829 Based on what a four day workweek could look like 0:09:22.830 --> 0:09:26.220 now full disclosure at the beginning of this year, in January, 0:09:26.220 --> 0:09:28.979 you know, you'll always have well, is it a New 0:09:28.980 --> 0:09:31.580 Year's resolution or is it a theme? Is it a 0:09:31.590 --> 0:09:33.300 I don't know what it is. We don't we don't 0:09:33.300 --> 0:09:37.410 really do New Year's resolutions, but we do have things 0:09:37.410 --> 0:09:42.949 that we like to focus on this year and. For you. Remember, 0:09:42.950 --> 0:09:46.670 we're sitting. Sitting down at our kitchen table, and you 0:09:46.670 --> 0:09:51.080 came up with the concept of the 1%. Yes. And. 0:09:51.820 --> 0:09:52.690 Or I didn't. 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:53.980 You didn't come up with it? 0:09:54.100 --> 0:09:56.200 I tapped into it myself. Yes. 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:56.670 Yeah. 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.559 And you. You started to explore that and what that 0:09:59.559 --> 0:10:03.750 could look like from a in a slow living lens. Yes. 0:10:05.100 --> 0:10:07.020 Which will go on to talk about in which you've 0:10:07.020 --> 0:10:07.800 written about. 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.020 Yeah. And we'll link to all of this in show 0:10:10.020 --> 0:10:11.760 notes and whatnot. But yes. 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:12.540 But then I was. 0:10:12.540 --> 0:10:21.699 Sort of. I was looking at. A post-COVID. Labor force 0:10:21.710 --> 0:10:25.060 and looking at why I chose to go out and 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:32.270 essentially become self employed. And on that sort of freelance 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:36.560 project based engagements with my clients. 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.059 Which was how long ago? 0:10:38.630 --> 0:10:43.940 Well, that was back in 2016. Yeah. That was a decision. 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.470 I guess, brought on by what we wanted to do 0:10:48.470 --> 0:10:50.120 in travel and what we wanted to do in terms 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.480 of traveling and traveling with your books and doing book 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.449 tours and like this was a thing that we just 0:10:56.450 --> 0:10:59.660 had to put in place before we were to do that. 0:10:59.660 --> 0:11:02.780 So we did that. And then purely it's like a 0:11:02.780 --> 0:11:11.310 lifestyle decision, really. It enables us to live. Out of Sydney. 0:11:12.380 --> 0:11:16.069 Where the commute is not as. Because we're not commuting 0:11:16.070 --> 0:11:20.179 every day. So it's not it's not as big a factor. Yes, 0:11:20.179 --> 0:11:23.080 we still travel in the city, but it's not every day. 0:11:23.090 --> 0:11:24.679 Yeah, well, you do. I don't. Yeah. 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:25.429 Yeah, I do. 0:11:26.120 --> 0:11:32.089 Uh. And so the lifestyle changes that's brought on. Being 0:11:32.090 --> 0:11:36.140 self-employed have been massive and and for the most part very, 0:11:36.140 --> 0:11:38.930 very positive. But then COVID came along. Right? 0:11:39.110 --> 0:11:42.460 And yes, I have heard of it with COVID. 0:11:42.470 --> 0:11:44.810 Everyone was working home from home anyway. 0:11:44.809 --> 0:11:45.800 Pretty much, yeah. 0:11:46.690 --> 0:11:48.819 And so I felt and this is going to sound 0:11:48.820 --> 0:11:55.120 really privileged. What's in it for me? Where's my advantage now? Right. 0:11:55.140 --> 0:11:56.550 Do you know what I mean? Like, and I know 0:11:56.550 --> 0:12:00.090 that sounds really selfish, but it's. I took the risk 0:12:00.090 --> 0:12:02.970 of going out, and there's massive amount of risk involved 0:12:02.970 --> 0:12:06.660 in being self-employed. You carry a lot of that risk. 0:12:06.660 --> 0:12:09.990 There's no security. Well, the argument is there's never any 0:12:09.990 --> 0:12:10.949 security anyway. 0:12:10.980 --> 0:12:11.429 Yeah, but. 0:12:11.429 --> 0:12:14.790 Like, if you get booted by a client or that 0:12:14.790 --> 0:12:17.100 can happen, it can happen overnight. And it did happen 0:12:17.100 --> 0:12:21.210 overnight during COVID with multiple clients. It was like, Oh, sorry, 0:12:21.210 --> 0:12:24.150 there's no work for you anymore. One day there was, 0:12:24.150 --> 0:12:26.850 the next day there wasn't. So yes, there is absolutely 0:12:26.850 --> 0:12:28.469 a huge amount of risk. There's no sick leave. There's 0:12:28.470 --> 0:12:31.290 no holiday pay. There's no severance pay. There's none of that. 0:12:31.290 --> 0:12:33.719 None of this is surprising, but it is part of 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.439 the risk of being self-employed and why it felt like 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.890 such a leap for us back in 2016, even though, yes, 0:12:40.890 --> 0:12:43.740 we were doing it for reasons, good reasons, reasons that 0:12:43.740 --> 0:12:47.620 were values aligned, it was still very risky. And you 0:12:47.620 --> 0:12:52.679 were happy to take that risk because the payoff was flexibility. 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.130 Work from home, able to all those travel, all that 0:12:56.130 --> 0:12:59.849 sort of stuff. And then COVID hit and then a 0:12:59.850 --> 0:13:03.330 majority of the workforce was able to do what you 0:13:03.330 --> 0:13:06.120 had been doing, essentially, which was working from home with 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:11.309 that flexibility, you know, painting it in a very positive light. Now, 0:13:11.309 --> 0:13:13.590 at the time, it was bloody hard for everyone. 0:13:13.890 --> 0:13:14.610 100%. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.179 Because you were also teaching your kids as. 0:13:18.179 --> 0:13:18.690 Well, right? 0:13:18.690 --> 0:13:20.790 For a lot of people. Yeah. And, you know, living 0:13:20.790 --> 0:13:22.950 through a global pandemic and all the uncertainty that came 0:13:22.950 --> 0:13:25.770 with that. But I remember your frustration because you're like, 0:13:26.130 --> 0:13:29.219 now everyone has the flexibility and the lifestyle stuff. 0:13:29.370 --> 0:13:32.370 It's a hybrid workforce now for the majority of white 0:13:32.370 --> 0:13:35.490 collar workers is wonderful. Yeah, it's awesome because the benefits 0:13:35.490 --> 0:13:39.160 are massive. Uh. So at the beginning of the year, 0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:41.710 recognizing all that, and I was like, Well, what's the 0:13:41.710 --> 0:13:44.979 next step? Like, what's the step that I could take 0:13:44.980 --> 0:13:50.020 as a self-employed person that that positions myself in front 0:13:50.020 --> 0:13:52.079 of the curve, if you like, makes you feel out 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:54.460 of the workforce. Like I'm getting like a little bit 0:13:54.460 --> 0:13:57.250 of a cheat code, like I'm getting a a benefit 0:13:57.250 --> 0:14:00.730 that other people aren't at the moment, you know what 0:14:00.730 --> 0:14:04.089 I mean? Like just and just being sort of aware 0:14:04.090 --> 0:14:06.579 of what the future of work looks like really, and 0:14:06.580 --> 0:14:10.230 the trends. And so reading about this four day workweek, 0:14:10.230 --> 0:14:14.520 I'm like, giddy up. Like that sounds that sounds great. 0:14:16.010 --> 0:14:19.430 And so I was challenged myself at the beginning of 0:14:19.430 --> 0:14:21.860 the year. I spoke to you and I said, I'm 0:14:21.860 --> 0:14:28.860 going to as of. April trial, a four day work week. 0:14:30.380 --> 0:14:33.020 And you then you said quite rightly, what does that 0:14:33.020 --> 0:14:35.210 look like for your clients and how how do you 0:14:35.210 --> 0:14:41.440 actually how will you actually do that? And. That's when 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.260 the I don't know, like the rubber hit the road 0:14:44.260 --> 0:14:48.250 was like that's that's a very hard as a self-employed 0:14:48.250 --> 0:14:53.200 person to to manage. Yeah because as an employed person 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:54.850 if you want to go down if you want to 0:14:54.850 --> 0:14:57.940 do a four day work week, it's a one conversation. 0:14:57.940 --> 0:14:58.690 And a contract. 0:14:58.690 --> 0:14:59.920 Change to the contract or. 0:14:59.950 --> 0:15:00.460 Stuff. 0:15:00.820 --> 0:15:04.920 With me, it's having multiple conversations and you need to 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:09.360 align all those conversations. Yeah. So that's where I'm up to. 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.850 Full disclosure, That's where I'm up to is is sort 0:15:11.850 --> 0:15:17.480 of working out. How I have that conversations and convince 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.350 people that. Of the research of the proof in the 0:15:21.350 --> 0:15:27.110 data of the trials that you will get increased productivity. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.570 You will get the same level of service. You get 0:15:31.570 --> 0:15:39.220 a happier Ben McAlary? Uh, yeah. So that's, that's where 0:15:39.220 --> 0:15:42.640 that's sort of where I've got to. And I've started 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:44.210 to have those conversations. 0:15:44.230 --> 0:15:46.210 Yeah. And what does that look like? 0:15:46.710 --> 0:15:52.100 Um. I've just been quite open and honest and just 0:15:52.100 --> 0:15:55.640 saying I'm going to be unavailable on this day from 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:56.930 this date. Right? 0:15:58.180 --> 0:16:01.180 And what's the response been typically? 0:16:02.240 --> 0:16:03.170 No problem. 0:16:03.410 --> 0:16:04.070 Interesting. 0:16:05.390 --> 0:16:08.720 Okay. This is only with, like, one client so far. Okay. 0:16:08.810 --> 0:16:11.570 I've only had that conversation, but, yeah, I've got to 0:16:11.570 --> 0:16:15.880 have it with multiples, but, like, that's. I was expecting. 0:16:17.290 --> 0:16:18.260 Something different. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:19.960 You're expecting pushback or. 0:16:19.990 --> 0:16:20.290 Yeah. 0:16:20.680 --> 0:16:24.010 Yeah. Do you think that, at least in part, the 0:16:24.010 --> 0:16:26.200 acceptance Hard to say when it was just one person 0:16:26.380 --> 0:16:33.100 or one one client that. In part, it's it's not 0:16:33.100 --> 0:16:37.210 a crazy idea anymore. Like the conversation publicly in the 0:16:37.210 --> 0:16:40.780 media is that a four day workweek has merit. Whether 0:16:40.780 --> 0:16:43.479 or not organizations are going to adopt it is a 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:45.730 whole other thing. But there's merit there. And it is 0:16:45.730 --> 0:16:51.620 no longer like the outlier who is suggesting this. Do 0:16:51.620 --> 0:16:53.480 you think that that's at least part of the reason 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.160 why there was no pushback? 0:16:55.820 --> 0:16:58.550 I think there was no pushback because I didn't say 0:16:58.550 --> 0:17:02.359 I'm having a four day working week. Right. Okay. I'm 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.430 just having I'm not working for you on this day. 0:17:04.670 --> 0:17:06.590 I'm I'm unavailable. 0:17:06.680 --> 0:17:07.070 On this. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:08.590 Day from this date. Yeah. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:08.990 Okay. 0:17:08.990 --> 0:17:12.110 So I'm not saying it's the because I still think 0:17:12.109 --> 0:17:13.730 there's probably a lot of stigma around it. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:14.750 Do you? Yeah. 0:17:14.950 --> 0:17:19.250 Yeah. So you operate in that realm and don't so yeah. 0:17:20.090 --> 0:17:22.429 I mean, I think a lot of people with this 0:17:22.430 --> 0:17:26.510 sort of these sort of issues initially quite reluctant to 0:17:26.510 --> 0:17:29.900 want to be the the first in market to do 0:17:29.900 --> 0:17:31.159 it even though the trials are. 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:32.150 Saying there's. 0:17:32.150 --> 0:17:34.190 Certainly nowhere near the first in market anymore. 0:17:34.190 --> 0:17:35.060 But yeah anymore but. 0:17:35.060 --> 0:17:38.540 Within Australia and look there's probably companies in Australia are 0:17:38.540 --> 0:17:39.619 already doing it. There is. 0:17:39.619 --> 0:17:41.180 Yeah, yeah, yeah there is. 0:17:42.140 --> 0:17:46.100 So yeah, so I so this is, this whole thing 0:17:46.100 --> 0:17:52.310 was based on. My level of not being able to 0:17:52.310 --> 0:17:56.810 disconnect from work because everyone has a right to disconnect 0:17:56.810 --> 0:17:57.350 from work. 0:17:57.380 --> 0:17:59.960 Yes, some countries are actually legislating that now. 0:18:00.090 --> 0:18:04.550 Yeah, exactly. So, you know, by not answering phone calls 0:18:04.550 --> 0:18:11.389 out of hours or emails outside of work hours. That's 0:18:11.390 --> 0:18:15.859 crept into my. Yes, my the way that I operate, 0:18:16.550 --> 0:18:22.550 particularly with the kids leaving home early before. Uh, earlier 0:18:23.090 --> 0:18:26.719 than previous years. They're heading off earlier. They're both in 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.649 high school now, so. There's more time for me to 0:18:30.650 --> 0:18:37.040 be in front of my computer. And I recognizing this. I'm. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.889 There's no benefit Like there's. That's annoyed me that I've 0:18:41.890 --> 0:18:44.550 just gone. Well I can fill that with with work 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.469 and productivity for the sake of productivity. 0:18:47.830 --> 0:18:48.369 Right. 0:18:49.230 --> 0:18:52.440 Are you? Do you think you're getting through more work 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.360 because of that, or are you? 0:18:55.020 --> 0:18:55.710 I really don't. 0:18:55.710 --> 0:18:56.250 Know. No. 0:18:56.250 --> 0:18:57.179 It's hard for you to track. 0:18:57.210 --> 0:18:58.980 Yeah, I really don't know. 0:18:59.700 --> 0:19:05.040 So that's that's interesting that the frustration with, like, productivity 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:13.540 creep and. Email creep and, you know. Availability creep has 0:19:13.750 --> 0:19:18.550 flagged with you because mean I've noticed it, but I 0:19:18.550 --> 0:19:21.939 think that that's also a quite a common problem at 0:19:21.940 --> 0:19:25.180 the moment with the hybrid lots more people working from 0:19:25.180 --> 0:19:29.890 home more. There's huge amounts of research being done and, 0:19:29.890 --> 0:19:36.450 you know, articles being written about. Exactly that. The boundaries 0:19:36.450 --> 0:19:42.030 have blurred significantly for people, you know, between work and 0:19:42.030 --> 0:19:45.570 home and tech always made it tricky. But the fact 0:19:45.570 --> 0:19:49.670 that home is work for a lot of people now. Yeah, yeah. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:50.610 That's yeah. 0:19:50.609 --> 0:19:56.640 Is making it harder again for people to extricate themselves mentally. 0:19:57.660 --> 0:20:02.400 So that's interesting that that has kind of been highlighted 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.200 to you as well. Yeah. 0:20:05.750 --> 0:20:08.930 Let me ask you this question. Okay. Do you think 0:20:08.930 --> 0:20:13.050 we are working more than we did, say, 20 to 0:20:13.050 --> 0:20:14.119 30 years ago? 0:20:14.930 --> 0:20:16.040 How do you mean? More like. 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:16.490 Hours. 0:20:16.580 --> 0:20:19.850 Hours in a week? Do you think we're working more 0:20:19.850 --> 0:20:21.920 as an average? 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:27.450 Yes. Without like more context than that. Like you're talking 0:20:27.450 --> 0:20:29.370 about Australia, what kind of workers are you talking about? 0:20:29.369 --> 0:20:31.350 All that sort of stuff. But yes, I would say 0:20:31.350 --> 0:20:31.919 that yes, we are. 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.160 In the developed world in what I call richer nations. 0:20:36.450 --> 0:20:41.220 We are working far less than we did 30 years ago, 0:20:41.220 --> 0:20:47.150 which absolutely shocks me because I feel like. I wasn't 0:20:47.150 --> 0:20:49.010 in the workforce 30 years ago. 0:20:49.400 --> 0:20:50.390 No, but I. 0:20:51.140 --> 0:20:52.700 Kind of was 20 years ago. 0:20:53.030 --> 0:20:54.190 You definitely were 20 years ago. 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:58.970 But as a as a as a. Average. The population 0:20:58.970 --> 0:21:03.210 is working. Far less. There's a few reasons for this. 0:21:03.210 --> 0:21:08.270 So casualisation of the workforce, right? More people working part 0:21:08.270 --> 0:21:11.270 time compared to 20 or 30 years ago. 0:21:12.230 --> 0:21:15.050 The gig economy, gig economy. 0:21:15.050 --> 0:21:18.440 So all these all these new sort of labor forces. 0:21:18.710 --> 0:21:20.780 Which are far less secure, far. 0:21:20.780 --> 0:21:21.380 Less secure. 0:21:22.740 --> 0:21:26.880 Um, generally pay far less, uh. 0:21:27.390 --> 0:21:29.310 Zero benefits. Zero like, yeah. 0:21:29.310 --> 0:21:31.979 Like not zero, but yes, less benefits and all that 0:21:31.980 --> 0:21:37.320 sort of stuff. So. Yeah. To me, I was like, wow, 0:21:38.580 --> 0:21:43.200 that that's. That's shocking. Yeah, we are. Mental health is, 0:21:43.380 --> 0:21:45.150 you know, it's never been. 0:21:46.210 --> 0:21:52.450 Worse. Yeah. And burnout is huge. That's really interesting. So why. 0:21:52.450 --> 0:21:52.960 Is that? 0:21:55.020 --> 0:21:58.500 I think that being on constant, this is just my theory. 0:21:58.500 --> 0:22:02.820 This is not based in anything scientific. I think that 0:22:02.820 --> 0:22:07.410 people are just constantly on, you know, and even if 0:22:07.410 --> 0:22:09.780 they are not working, I know this is the case 0:22:09.780 --> 0:22:11.880 for a lot of people who work in hospitality, for example, 0:22:11.880 --> 0:22:15.920 or health care because of the casualisation of the workforce, 0:22:15.930 --> 0:22:19.139 they need to be ready to say yes to a 0:22:19.140 --> 0:22:24.450 shift tomorrow, today, tonight, whatever, you know, so people aren't 0:22:24.450 --> 0:22:30.480 given the opportunity for what was the traditional 48 hours 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:34.590 away from work or more, you know, so people don't 0:22:34.590 --> 0:22:38.610 ever get that time to decompress. And I'd say that 0:22:38.609 --> 0:22:41.129 a lot of people like information workers and, you know, 0:22:41.130 --> 0:22:47.610 people who even aren't in those casualised sort of industries 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.570 are feeling the same for different reasons because they're constantly 0:22:51.570 --> 0:22:55.139 attached to their email. They're getting text messages. They are 0:22:55.590 --> 0:22:58.770 expected to answer the phone even if it is out 0:22:58.770 --> 0:23:01.710 of work hours. So again, people aren't getting the time 0:23:01.710 --> 0:23:06.090 to decompress. So it feels like we are working more, 0:23:06.090 --> 0:23:09.840 even if, as you say, on average it's on the 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:13.830 average is important. On average, people are working less. 0:23:14.630 --> 0:23:18.530 Because 30 years ago people didn't need a dual income 0:23:18.530 --> 0:23:20.119 to survive, right? 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:20.929 Right. Yeah. 0:23:20.930 --> 0:23:23.609 And now that's pretty useful. 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:26.370 It's pretty much par for the course. Of course. Yeah. 0:23:26.390 --> 0:23:30.590 If you're in a in a relationship and your cost 0:23:30.590 --> 0:23:36.820 of living. Is such that there is virtually no way 0:23:36.820 --> 0:23:43.100 one partner. Yeah can. And everything you need in order 0:23:43.100 --> 0:23:45.980 to make ends meet. And that's even looking back, like 0:23:45.980 --> 0:23:49.820 when we grew up, my mom was at home until 0:23:49.820 --> 0:23:52.820 I was in primary school, so she got a job 0:23:52.820 --> 0:23:55.880 when I was in primary school, part time job. Even 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:58.940 that like that. I would have said years ago that 0:23:58.940 --> 0:24:01.730 that was stereotyped. Like that was the typical situation. It 0:24:01.730 --> 0:24:05.330 wasn't like even, you know, 30, 40 years ago. That 0:24:05.330 --> 0:24:09.620 wasn't necessarily the the the typical situation, but it was 0:24:09.619 --> 0:24:14.010 more common. Like now, it's I think it would be 0:24:14.010 --> 0:24:18.419 quite uncommon. I could be wrong, but I mean, again. 0:24:19.140 --> 0:24:21.820 Where's the census data? And I can tell you that, yeah, 0:24:21.869 --> 0:24:25.169 I think it would be uncommon. Yeah. So cost of 0:24:25.170 --> 0:24:27.330 living is a huge part of it too. Huge. And 0:24:27.330 --> 0:24:30.450 then you so you've got stress of meeting the rising 0:24:30.450 --> 0:24:34.050 cost of living. Wages are not increasing. Wages are decreasing 0:24:34.050 --> 0:24:39.649 on in a in a real world sense. Um. It's brutal. 0:24:39.660 --> 0:24:43.919 So I think that. It makes sense that we feel 0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:46.650 that we're working more even if we're working less. 0:24:46.680 --> 0:24:49.020 Now, I do need to put a caveat. There's a 0:24:49.020 --> 0:24:53.040 huge difference between richer and poorer nations with this. So 0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.760 richer nations are working fewer hours. 0:24:57.500 --> 0:24:58.790 On average, on average. 0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:03.410 Poorer nations are working far more. Right. Okay. So, yeah, 0:25:03.410 --> 0:25:11.780 look at like agricultural intensive industry within developing nations and 0:25:11.780 --> 0:25:17.700 they're working. 24 over seven. So the average is greater there. 0:25:17.850 --> 0:25:20.160 So I think innovation tech has a lot to do 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:22.740 with it, but it's not the answer. Right? Like at 0:25:22.740 --> 0:25:26.130 the end of the day, it's a tool. And technology 0:25:26.130 --> 0:25:28.590 as a tool is winning. 0:25:29.310 --> 0:25:29.850 Yep. 0:25:31.770 --> 0:25:35.310 Yeah, it's it's interesting, though, if we come back to 0:25:35.310 --> 0:25:41.129 the four day workweek for. People like you, people like me, who, 0:25:41.130 --> 0:25:47.100 you know, work mostly on computers. Where knowledge workers. There 0:25:47.100 --> 0:25:50.850 is an argument that a four day work week will 0:25:50.850 --> 0:25:58.460 be made more broadly possible by. Embracing what tech offers 0:25:58.460 --> 0:26:03.530 for efficiency sake, whether that's AI, whether that's, you know, 0:26:04.190 --> 0:26:07.100 just being smarter with the way that we use technology 0:26:07.100 --> 0:26:12.650 to reduce what is required of us. That sounds all 0:26:12.650 --> 0:26:15.740 well and good until you put your corporate overlord hat 0:26:15.740 --> 0:26:17.900 on and they're like, Oh, are you doing less work? 0:26:17.900 --> 0:26:19.970 So we won't pay you as much? You can have 0:26:19.970 --> 0:26:21.950 a four day workweek, but we'll pay you for days. 0:26:21.950 --> 0:26:24.620 That's not what a four day workweek promises. A four 0:26:24.619 --> 0:26:27.410 day workweek, as it's being discussed at the moment is 0:26:27.410 --> 0:26:30.160 about working for four days a week. 0:26:30.170 --> 0:26:30.800 Same pace, same. 0:26:30.800 --> 0:26:34.130 Benefits, same pay, same benefits. Yes. So I think that's 0:26:34.130 --> 0:26:36.560 an important distinction to make. We're not talking about robots 0:26:36.560 --> 0:26:40.220 taking our jobs. And giving us less work to do 0:26:40.220 --> 0:26:44.250 because that will ultimately just result in us. Being paid less. 0:26:44.340 --> 0:26:48.540 That's not really the point. Although there is some evidence 0:26:48.540 --> 0:26:51.810 that certain parts of the workforce would take a pay 0:26:51.810 --> 0:26:53.010 cut if. 0:26:53.010 --> 0:26:53.580 They'd be able. 0:26:53.580 --> 0:26:54.330 To have a full day. 0:26:54.430 --> 0:26:55.169 Yes, but. 0:26:55.170 --> 0:26:57.310 I don't think that's most people. 0:26:57.340 --> 0:26:59.340 Yeah. Yeah. Um. 0:26:59.790 --> 0:27:03.450 So anyway, come with us on this journey as I 0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:07.679 explore the four day workweek and what that looks like. 0:27:07.680 --> 0:27:11.190 So I'm not doing it now. Like, it's not hasn't 0:27:11.190 --> 0:27:17.940 started yet. I'm in the process of managing expectations around it. Yeah. 0:27:17.940 --> 0:27:20.700 Which takes me to this article on The Guardian or 0:27:20.700 --> 0:27:22.680 the AFR actually, which I'll link to in the show 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:30.969 notes that spoke to a number of. Managers for different 0:27:30.970 --> 0:27:35.500 organizations of different kinds of businesses that trialed the four 0:27:35.500 --> 0:27:38.020 day workweek. And I thought it was really interesting because 0:27:38.020 --> 0:27:42.220 one of them was like a larger corporate office, you know, 0:27:42.220 --> 0:27:45.070 that you would typically think of as well suited for 0:27:45.070 --> 0:27:47.739 a four day workweek. So they were involved. But there 0:27:47.740 --> 0:27:49.719 was also a fish and chip shop somewhere in the 0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:53.890 UK because that's a an argument that I often hear 0:27:53.890 --> 0:27:58.090 that's against the four day workweek, which is tradespeople, service. 0:27:58.090 --> 0:27:58.290 And. 0:27:58.690 --> 0:28:02.380 Anyone who works in service industry, hospitality, health care, that 0:28:02.380 --> 0:28:05.470 sort of stuff. It's not well suited to a four 0:28:05.470 --> 0:28:09.880 day workweek. And absolutely that is the case for some 0:28:09.880 --> 0:28:13.870 industries and some work. There is no way around that. 0:28:13.869 --> 0:28:15.909 But I still don't think that that's a good reason 0:28:15.910 --> 0:28:21.250 for it to not be applicable to certain industries when possible. 0:28:21.490 --> 0:28:24.909 So it was really interesting to see the different challenges 0:28:24.910 --> 0:28:31.720 that those two businesses faced. So the corporate business, he 0:28:31.720 --> 0:28:33.730 joked and he said, like, I think it was six 0:28:33.730 --> 0:28:37.869 months of six day weeks in order to prepare us 0:28:37.930 --> 0:28:42.010 for the four day workweek. And because, you know, you 0:28:42.010 --> 0:28:47.830 think about having to look at everyone's job description and 0:28:47.830 --> 0:28:52.180 what their outputs are and, you know, what the flow 0:28:52.180 --> 0:28:54.760 on effects of changing that. Like, let's say they don't 0:28:54.760 --> 0:28:56.830 no one works on a Wednesday. What does that look 0:28:56.830 --> 0:29:00.520 like for their suppliers and for their customers and all 0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:02.380 that sort of stuff? So there was a huge amount 0:29:02.380 --> 0:29:07.210 of preparation in order to. Take part in this trial. 0:29:07.820 --> 0:29:11.150 And then the fish and chip shop like they're seasonal, right? 0:29:11.150 --> 0:29:14.150 So they are in a coastal tourist town. There is 0:29:14.150 --> 0:29:15.890 3 or 4 months of the year where it is 0:29:15.890 --> 0:29:19.370 simply not feasible for them to work four days a week, 0:29:19.370 --> 0:29:23.030 even if. And I'd read somewhere recently about like somewhere 0:29:23.030 --> 0:29:26.870 in the States, maybe that was giving hospitality workers the 0:29:26.870 --> 0:29:30.860 option of working their five days of eight hour shifts 0:29:30.860 --> 0:29:34.850 or working four days of ten hour shifts. So, you know, 0:29:34.910 --> 0:29:38.480 that has always been something that I was curious about 0:29:38.480 --> 0:29:42.380 as an option for hospitality. But instead of doing that, 0:29:42.380 --> 0:29:48.940 this fish and chip shop owner, um. Made it known, 0:29:48.940 --> 0:29:52.600 I guess, that during peak season, his workers, his employees 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:55.420 would work longer hours and in the off season they 0:29:55.420 --> 0:29:58.270 would work 32 hours a week as opposed to a 0:29:58.270 --> 0:30:01.239 higher workload. And then in the slow season, they would 0:30:01.240 --> 0:30:04.300 work 24 hours a week all for the same pay. Yeah. 0:30:04.300 --> 0:30:06.670 So there'd be periods where they would work very full 0:30:06.670 --> 0:30:09.370 time hours and then periods where they work part time 0:30:09.370 --> 0:30:12.700 hours for full time pay. And that seemed to work 0:30:12.700 --> 0:30:14.500 really well for them to the point where they're going 0:30:14.500 --> 0:30:17.860 to continue with the the equivalent of a four day workweek. 0:30:17.950 --> 0:30:18.880 It's so powerful. 0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:24.610 That it's such long term thinking and the the scarcity 0:30:24.610 --> 0:30:27.760 mindset of a of an employer. And if I put 0:30:27.760 --> 0:30:30.580 myself in the shoes of that owner of that fish 0:30:30.580 --> 0:30:34.210 and chip shop, it would be okay. So I'm I'm 0:30:34.210 --> 0:30:38.740 taking on these employees at any time they could leave. 0:30:39.580 --> 0:30:41.950 You know what? If they're leaving in the slow season 0:30:41.950 --> 0:30:44.560 when they're not, um, or they're just here for the 0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:47.830 slow season. Right. Sorry. They're just here for the slow 0:30:47.830 --> 0:30:52.600 season and they're getting paid full pay, not working a, 0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:56.980 you know, full day or full week. And and then 0:30:56.980 --> 0:31:00.880 when it comes and when it comes busier, they leave. Sure. 0:31:00.880 --> 0:31:01.420 Do you know what I mean? 0:31:01.420 --> 0:31:03.610 So invested all this fear based, fee based. 0:31:03.610 --> 0:31:07.570 And so that's that's just a whole psyche change. Yeah. 0:31:07.990 --> 0:31:11.320 And it's got to me it's about becoming human centered 0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:14.530 rather than profit centered. And I know I live in 0:31:14.530 --> 0:31:17.410 an idealist world in my own head. I understand that. 0:31:17.410 --> 0:31:22.210 And I'm so often frustrated by the fact that others don't, 0:31:22.780 --> 0:31:26.380 you know. And so for me, I always pass things 0:31:26.380 --> 0:31:30.760 through the lens of people first. And I know that 0:31:30.760 --> 0:31:34.180 that's not how the world works, but that's what we 0:31:34.180 --> 0:31:39.140 need to do if we want to embrace that. Uh, 0:31:39.140 --> 0:31:43.310 the abundance based mindset rather than the fear based mindset 0:31:43.910 --> 0:31:48.080 that you described. But that's not taking into account the 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:51.830 wellbeing of employees. So maybe someone's like, Yeah, maybe I 0:31:51.830 --> 0:31:53.720 will come in for the flu season and work three 0:31:53.720 --> 0:31:55.760 months at part time and get paid full time. But 0:31:55.760 --> 0:31:58.280 at the end of those three months, perhaps they are 0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:03.040 so enamored with the fact that the employer. Writes their 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:07.150 well-being so highly that they've realized they've become loyal to 0:32:07.150 --> 0:32:10.300 this person. Absolutely. You know, they've realized that actually I'm 0:32:10.300 --> 0:32:13.030 not going to get this sense, this level of investment 0:32:13.030 --> 0:32:16.060 in my well being anywhere else. So I'm going to stay, 0:32:16.330 --> 0:32:17.200 you know, and. 0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:20.650 The value that that would have is incredible. Yeah. 0:32:21.630 --> 0:32:24.140 Yeah, I think it's I think it's really interesting in 0:32:24.150 --> 0:32:24.690 case study. 0:32:24.750 --> 0:32:27.330 It is. Yeah. Thank you. Good. Yeah. 0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:31.770 I liked it because it wasn't the traditional white collar example. 0:32:31.830 --> 0:32:33.690 So what I'm going to try instead of the four 0:32:33.690 --> 0:32:36.870 day workweek is a six month on and then six 0:32:36.870 --> 0:32:37.830 month off. 0:32:38.010 --> 0:32:40.620 But there are people who do that too. What there 0:32:40.620 --> 0:32:43.830 are so people I mean, these are people and like 0:32:43.830 --> 0:32:46.410 someone who does the work I do could possibly do 0:32:46.410 --> 0:32:52.930 something like that. You know, writers, creators. Um. Creatives could 0:32:52.930 --> 0:32:57.730 potentially do that. Like you work intensively on a project, 0:32:57.730 --> 0:33:02.940 a book, a movie or whatever. And you put everything 0:33:02.940 --> 0:33:04.950 you have into it and then you go on sabbatical 0:33:04.950 --> 0:33:05.520 for six months. 0:33:05.550 --> 0:33:06.810 Oh, that's amazing. 0:33:06.810 --> 0:33:07.470 But there aren't there are. 0:33:07.470 --> 0:33:08.720 People who do it. They weren't. 0:33:08.730 --> 0:33:09.660 I couldn't do it. But it. 0:33:09.660 --> 0:33:10.200 Sounds amazing. 0:33:10.230 --> 0:33:11.700 No, you couldn't do it with the work that you do. 0:33:11.730 --> 0:33:12.630 I don't think most actually, I. 0:33:12.640 --> 0:33:15.180 Don't think I could even if I could, if you 0:33:15.180 --> 0:33:18.410 know what I mean. Yeah. Okay. Like six months being 0:33:18.630 --> 0:33:21.660 on for six months, not having any break, you know, 0:33:21.660 --> 0:33:25.730 just powering through. I think I get pretty sick. 0:33:26.180 --> 0:33:28.670 Yeah. And that. I don't know. All I know is 0:33:28.670 --> 0:33:31.520 that I had read that certain people do that and 0:33:31.520 --> 0:33:33.920 they seem to love it. So, you know. 0:33:34.040 --> 0:33:34.600 Yeah. 0:33:34.610 --> 0:33:37.860 And I mean, what's on right is on like 40 0:33:37.860 --> 0:33:39.710 hours a week is on 80 hours a week is 0:33:39.710 --> 0:33:44.270 on 120 hours a week. Yeah. Yeah. So the flip side, though, 0:33:44.660 --> 0:33:46.580 to the four day workweek and I think it's pretty 0:33:46.580 --> 0:33:50.760 obvious we are. Absolutely. In the camp of yes, four 0:33:50.760 --> 0:33:53.520 day work week for so many reasons. For people's well-being. 0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:55.140 Well enough to trial it. Yeah. 0:33:55.830 --> 0:34:04.360 Yes, sure. I mean. I am anyway, because. Anything that 0:34:04.360 --> 0:34:09.280 can lead to people being more well, people feeling more grounded, 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.910 people having time and space and buffer and margin in 0:34:12.910 --> 0:34:19.610 their life to. Live differently. I'm awful. Yeah. You know. 0:34:19.760 --> 0:34:24.460 But also, as I said, I know that that's an idealists. Uh, 0:34:24.460 --> 0:34:26.230 view of the world. Nothing wrong with that. 0:34:27.190 --> 0:34:29.950 But I understand that, but. 0:34:30.070 --> 0:34:34.669 So the flip side of it is. The laziness implication. 0:34:35.030 --> 0:34:40.430 A lot of people will imply or assume that there 0:34:40.430 --> 0:34:43.310 is laziness attached to this desire to only want to 0:34:43.310 --> 0:34:46.700 work four days a week. I disagree completely. It's people 0:34:46.700 --> 0:34:49.790 wanting to find some measure of balance in their life. 0:34:50.450 --> 0:34:53.850 And I think that. If it was rolled out widely, 0:34:53.850 --> 0:34:56.730 we would discover that in fact people weren't being lazy. 0:34:56.760 --> 0:35:03.600 Productivity doesn't decrease people's happiness, people's wellbeing, people's mental and 0:35:03.600 --> 0:35:07.590 physical health, improve their relationships, improve communities, improve and look, 0:35:07.590 --> 0:35:10.710 look at the flow on effect. That's what I believe 0:35:10.710 --> 0:35:14.940 would happen. But you cannot. Have this conversation without someone 0:35:14.940 --> 0:35:17.580 piping up saying it's just young people being lazy. And you. 0:35:17.580 --> 0:35:19.920 Know what? That's the capitalist society we live in. And 0:35:19.920 --> 0:35:22.140 I don't want to get too deep into this this. 0:35:22.140 --> 0:35:27.120 But capitalism by definition, is productivity being as productive as 0:35:27.120 --> 0:35:32.220 possible and earning. A living based on that. 0:35:32.219 --> 0:35:33.360 Productivity, even. 0:35:33.360 --> 0:35:36.570 Even like my argument for that is they've shown that 0:35:37.080 --> 0:35:41.250 productivity increases on a four day week anyway like this. 0:35:41.340 --> 0:35:43.890 The trial has shown that it's like 25% increase. To me, 0:35:43.890 --> 0:35:47.310 that's not the point. But regardless that that takes that 0:35:47.310 --> 0:35:48.150 argument away. 0:35:48.150 --> 0:35:52.200 It does. And that's why and that's essentially while why 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:53.910 it's been considered by so many companies. 0:35:53.910 --> 0:35:54.450 Right, because of. 0:35:54.450 --> 0:35:55.110 The bottom line. 0:35:55.230 --> 0:35:56.760 The productivity, not because. 0:35:56.760 --> 0:35:58.080 People are happier or healthier. 0:35:58.080 --> 0:35:59.670 That's a nice side effect. 0:35:59.670 --> 0:36:01.650 Oh, God. 0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:03.029 So depressing. 0:36:04.320 --> 0:36:09.609 But capitalism's capitalist theory is that. Yeah. We need to 0:36:09.610 --> 0:36:14.680 be productive. If we're not, that's then we're sitting idle 0:36:14.680 --> 0:36:18.279 and that's wastage. So that's why when we when when 0:36:18.280 --> 0:36:21.460 you sit there and do nothing, you're subconsciously thinking I 0:36:21.460 --> 0:36:22.600 should be doing something. 0:36:22.750 --> 0:36:23.080 Oh, it's. 0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:27.130 Been completely ingrained into us. 100%. Yeah. But also, I 0:36:27.130 --> 0:36:32.710 would I would posit that the fear is people who 0:36:32.710 --> 0:36:36.340 have time on their hands have time to think, and 0:36:36.340 --> 0:36:39.610 people who think people are people who start to think 0:36:39.610 --> 0:36:42.430 critically about the world we live in and perhaps we 0:36:42.430 --> 0:36:43.870 can do it differently. And perhaps. 0:36:44.350 --> 0:36:44.589 We. 0:36:44.590 --> 0:36:45.310 Go, we're going. 0:36:45.310 --> 0:36:45.969 Down a rabbit hole. 0:36:46.000 --> 0:36:48.100 No, I'm not going to go. But but honestly, I 0:36:48.100 --> 0:36:51.629 do believe that that is. I don't think there's any 0:36:51.630 --> 0:36:53.850 one puppet master pulling those strings. But I think that 0:36:53.850 --> 0:36:58.740 over time that has become the norm, is that people 0:36:58.739 --> 0:37:04.700 are far more likely to buy stuff, to buy into things, to, 0:37:04.710 --> 0:37:09.330 you know, become a cog in the marketing machine that 0:37:09.330 --> 0:37:12.270 is the world if we don't have time to stop 0:37:12.270 --> 0:37:15.210 and think. Yep. Truly. And that's why I think that 0:37:15.210 --> 0:37:19.560 slow living can be a genuinely world changing idea because 0:37:19.560 --> 0:37:22.770 it gives people the opportunity to stop and think and 0:37:22.770 --> 0:37:26.550 it is uncomfortable. The things that you stop and think 0:37:26.550 --> 0:37:33.100 about are uncomfortable. But. I. I truly believe that there 0:37:33.100 --> 0:37:37.840 is an element to this work, work, work, work mentality 0:37:37.840 --> 0:37:45.870 that is about. Air control sounds ridiculous, but it's about 0:37:46.350 --> 0:37:47.810 maximizing money. 0:37:47.820 --> 0:37:49.770 Yeah, it's about money. Yeah. Yeah. 0:37:49.890 --> 0:37:53.310 How funny. I'm just smirking because I'm thinking about my 0:37:53.310 --> 0:37:56.880 check in and how I'm. Now I've got a fitness tracker, 0:37:56.880 --> 0:37:59.130 and it's all about optimization and productivity. 0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:04.200 Is it, though, that's one side or is it about well-being? 0:38:05.150 --> 0:38:06.350 Oh, that's true. 0:38:07.070 --> 0:38:08.299 There's an argument for both. 0:38:08.420 --> 0:38:08.870 There is? 0:38:08.870 --> 0:38:10.420 Yeah. It depends how you use it. 0:38:10.430 --> 0:38:10.850 Yeah. 0:38:11.300 --> 0:38:14.180 If you're like, using it to hack, like, biohacking and 0:38:14.180 --> 0:38:17.080 and whatnot, then, you know, perhaps that's, that's. 0:38:17.350 --> 0:38:18.529 That's about. 0:38:18.650 --> 0:38:25.010 You know, reaching your optimum potential versus well being or, 0:38:25.010 --> 0:38:31.399 you know, um. Navigating life in a way that creates 0:38:31.400 --> 0:38:33.590 the least amount of stress. Yeah. 0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:38.490 Yeah. Anyway, so that's the four day workweek. This is 0:38:38.489 --> 0:38:41.940 going to be a recurring topic. I'm going to. I'm 0:38:41.940 --> 0:38:43.230 not going to spend a lot of time on it 0:38:43.230 --> 0:38:45.450 in future episodes, but I will provide an update on 0:38:45.450 --> 0:38:50.100 what it's looking like and how I'm managing expectations. And yeah. 0:38:50.100 --> 0:38:52.710 So just from you personally rather than the global. Exactly. 0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:53.410 Exactly. 0:38:53.460 --> 0:38:56.010 Can I ask you a question before we move on? Sure. 0:38:57.600 --> 0:39:02.010 One of the other arguments against the four day workweek 0:39:02.010 --> 0:39:08.370 is that people will use their day off to go 0:39:08.370 --> 0:39:13.170 and get another job. And that will in turn lead 0:39:13.170 --> 0:39:17.790 to either poorer performance in their main job the four 0:39:17.790 --> 0:39:23.790 day a week job or burnout. I can absolutely see 0:39:23.790 --> 0:39:25.830 how people would do that, because the cost of living 0:39:25.830 --> 0:39:30.060 crisis is very real and brutal and people are struggling 0:39:30.060 --> 0:39:32.580 to make ends meet. So I get that concern. 0:39:32.880 --> 0:39:36.090 People have got side hustles now and a five day 0:39:36.090 --> 0:39:37.890 work rate. Yeah. 0:39:38.219 --> 0:39:42.030 So that would just free them up to do their 0:39:42.030 --> 0:39:43.740 side hustle on another day. 0:39:43.739 --> 0:39:45.719 Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a good point. 0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:46.230 I hadn't really. 0:39:46.230 --> 0:39:46.890 Thought about that, but. 0:39:46.890 --> 0:39:49.830 I'd love to know what percentage of people do have 0:39:49.830 --> 0:39:51.330 some kind of side hustle. 0:39:52.469 --> 0:39:54.360 Yeah, that would be interesting, actually. 0:39:54.480 --> 0:39:55.200 Yeah. 0:39:55.620 --> 0:39:59.730 So I think. Okay, let's like, follow that argument through though, 0:39:59.730 --> 0:40:04.420 which is. Yes. Let's say people move to a four 0:40:04.420 --> 0:40:08.620 day workweek. They go and get another job to. Boost 0:40:08.620 --> 0:40:15.030 their bank account. Will that lead to burnout? Probably. But 0:40:15.030 --> 0:40:19.200 people are already burning out on five days anyway. So 0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:22.529 what do we do as a society? Like, how do we. 0:40:23.750 --> 0:40:28.129 Negate that need for people to feel like they or 0:40:28.130 --> 0:40:29.930 not just feel like they have to to have to 0:40:29.960 --> 0:40:32.629 go and get a second job to plug the gap. 0:40:32.750 --> 0:40:38.529 We raise wages. We look at things like universal basic income. 0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:43.779 You know, like this is where the opportunity for creativity 0:40:43.780 --> 0:40:48.340 and leadership really comes in. I'm not asking you to like, 0:40:48.350 --> 0:40:51.230 give your personal thoughts on it, but to me, it's 0:40:51.230 --> 0:40:56.030 just an interesting offshoot of the conversation. It's like, how 0:40:56.030 --> 0:40:59.990 human centered can we make the economy? And what would the. 0:41:01.350 --> 0:41:02.609 Flow on effects of that be. 0:41:03.060 --> 0:41:06.960 So the skeptics will will no doubt have that argument 0:41:06.960 --> 0:41:11.070 in their back pockets. When more organizations move to the 0:41:11.070 --> 0:41:16.830 four day workweek. Just as like hybrid work, the hybrid 0:41:16.830 --> 0:41:20.880 workforce and the skeptics around people working from home have 0:41:20.880 --> 0:41:23.130 come out and said it's not good for collaboration and 0:41:23.130 --> 0:41:25.680 it's not good for mental health. And like, do you 0:41:25.680 --> 0:41:26.940 know what I mean? Like, there's always going to be 0:41:26.940 --> 0:41:27.630 people that Sure. 0:41:27.660 --> 0:41:28.410 Of which they. 0:41:28.590 --> 0:41:31.290 I think that there is some merit to those arguments 0:41:31.590 --> 0:41:34.500 based on individual people, based on the work that they do, 0:41:34.500 --> 0:41:38.160 based on the organizations they work for. I'm not I'm 0:41:38.160 --> 0:41:40.410 not pooh poohing that at all. And I don't think 0:41:40.410 --> 0:41:43.440 that there is a one size fits all. Like just 0:41:43.440 --> 0:41:47.880 because I am a super introverted person who. Very happily 0:41:47.880 --> 0:41:51.270 works in my own company doesn't mean that that's going 0:41:51.270 --> 0:41:53.730 to suit everyone, you know. And I think that hybrid 0:41:53.730 --> 0:41:57.680 tends to be what is working for people like on 0:41:57.719 --> 0:42:01.230 the main. Yeah. Now as we move into whatever comes 0:42:01.230 --> 0:42:05.640 post lockdowns and um. Yeah. 0:42:06.640 --> 0:42:07.680 Sorry I interrupted you. 0:42:07.690 --> 0:42:10.750 So the question is, honey, what am I going to 0:42:10.750 --> 0:42:12.880 do with that one day that I don't want? 0:42:12.900 --> 0:42:14.650 I don't know. What are you going to do? 0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:19.140 Um, well, I think that's another discussion. Okay. Because. 0:42:19.500 --> 0:42:21.220 Yeah, you don't know yet. 0:42:21.239 --> 0:42:25.529 Well, no, I have. I kind of do know what 0:42:25.530 --> 0:42:27.779 I'm going to be doing. Okay. And it will be 0:42:27.780 --> 0:42:32.550 upskilling based on the work that I do and it 0:42:32.550 --> 0:42:34.560 becoming redundant in the next three years. 0:42:34.860 --> 0:42:36.719 Yeah. So this is another conversation. 0:42:36.750 --> 0:42:39.290 This is a this is another conversation which we will have. Yeah. 0:42:40.320 --> 0:42:43.590 But yeah, let's do it in another episode. Okay, let's 0:42:43.590 --> 0:42:44.580 get on to. 0:42:47.360 --> 0:42:48.320 Hobbies? 0:42:48.590 --> 0:42:52.670 Yes. So this part of the conversation was sort of 0:42:52.670 --> 0:42:54.770 prompted by an article that I read. 0:42:56.170 --> 0:42:56.969 And The Guardian. 0:42:56.980 --> 0:42:59.290 Maybe I'll link to it in the show notes. 0:42:59.770 --> 0:43:01.180 About the. 0:43:01.300 --> 0:43:05.560 Benefits of having hobbies that we are mediocre at. 0:43:06.850 --> 0:43:08.890 Like things that we suck at. And it was written 0:43:08.890 --> 0:43:09.940 by someone who has. 0:43:09.940 --> 0:43:14.620 Been surfing for 20 or 30 years and is still 0:43:14.620 --> 0:43:19.510 genuinely terrible at it, but loves it, loves it because 0:43:19.510 --> 0:43:23.140 they are genuinely terrible at it. And they had a 0:43:23.140 --> 0:43:24.580 perspective that I had not. 0:43:25.940 --> 0:43:27.050 Uh, really considered. 0:43:27.050 --> 0:43:31.520 Before, which was that if you want to, if your 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:34.220 aim is to get better at something, a hobby, for example, 0:43:34.969 --> 0:43:41.219 then you open up. The prospect of failure. So trying 0:43:41.219 --> 0:43:44.220 to get better means that you can fail. So they're like, 0:43:44.219 --> 0:43:46.230 I don't want to try and get better because this 0:43:46.230 --> 0:43:48.900 is something I enjoy as it is just for the 0:43:48.900 --> 0:43:53.509 sheer love of it, trying to get better, getting lessons, whatever. 0:43:53.520 --> 0:43:57.600 Watching YouTube tutorials like that then changes my mindset away 0:43:57.600 --> 0:44:01.359 from one of enjoyment to one of improvement. And I 0:44:01.360 --> 0:44:04.780 had never considered that before. But I think that there's 0:44:04.780 --> 0:44:07.120 definitely an element of truth to it. The comments were 0:44:07.120 --> 0:44:12.100 so interesting because most people had this very capitalistic mentality 0:44:12.100 --> 0:44:14.200 of like, Why wouldn't you want to get better at it? 0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:16.900 Whereas this person was like, I don't because I don't 0:44:16.900 --> 0:44:19.300 want to. I just don't want I love. 0:44:19.300 --> 0:44:20.200 Sucking at it. 0:44:20.210 --> 0:44:24.460 Yeah, because it is enjoyable, because it is an exercise 0:44:24.460 --> 0:44:29.950 in movement or mindfulness or play or whatever it is 0:44:29.950 --> 0:44:31.180 not about. 0:44:32.030 --> 0:44:34.700 Getting better. What do you think about that? 0:44:34.730 --> 0:44:35.420 It's such a. 0:44:36.050 --> 0:44:40.339 Look. Five years ago, I would have been on the whole. 0:44:40.489 --> 0:44:41.800 Just give up now. 0:44:41.810 --> 0:44:42.299 Like, why? 0:44:42.410 --> 0:44:43.700 If I'm not going to be good, I'm not going 0:44:43.700 --> 0:44:44.020 to do it. 0:44:44.030 --> 0:44:44.750 Exactly. 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:52.299 But. I really love embracing the beginner mindset. Being a beginner. 0:44:53.710 --> 0:44:57.770 In something. It's so cool. 0:44:58.070 --> 0:45:00.530 Okay. That is very different to how you used to be. 0:45:00.530 --> 0:45:01.250 Because. 0:45:01.370 --> 0:45:08.529 You don't get those first. Big, like baby steps again. 0:45:08.530 --> 0:45:12.100 Like when you when you do something new. Those those 0:45:12.100 --> 0:45:15.640 little baby steps, they're so enjoyable because they're so basic 0:45:15.640 --> 0:45:20.020 and they're so they're so hard. And it's funny, like 0:45:20.020 --> 0:45:26.550 how hard it is. And just embracing that beginner mindset 0:45:26.550 --> 0:45:32.000 is those and also when you're a beginner. You get 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:33.589 better really, really quickly. 0:45:35.610 --> 0:45:38.690 I think that's the opposite to the point of the article. 0:45:41.239 --> 0:45:42.710 But it's inevitable, right? 0:45:42.710 --> 0:45:43.310 Like if you. 0:45:43.310 --> 0:45:44.239 Apparently not. 0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:50.600 Come on. If they've been surfing for 30 years. They 0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:52.850 they would have started by not being able to actually 0:45:52.850 --> 0:45:53.770 stand up on the surface. 0:45:54.080 --> 0:45:55.110 Okay, I get your point. 0:45:55.130 --> 0:45:58.040 They now would be able to stand up on the surfboard. 0:45:58.190 --> 0:45:58.730 I'm assuming. 0:45:58.730 --> 0:45:59.270 So I. 0:45:59.270 --> 0:45:59.630 Don't. 0:46:00.950 --> 0:46:02.480 So there's a big thing, isn't it? There's a big. 0:46:02.480 --> 0:46:07.700 Difference between laying on a board and surfing. Do you 0:46:07.700 --> 0:46:11.210 know what I mean? Yeah, the. Yeah. So I guess 0:46:11.210 --> 0:46:13.940 you're right. I'm still in that camp of. But. 0:46:14.780 --> 0:46:16.580 And you are like, I am. 0:46:16.580 --> 0:46:18.260 I am you and I learnt to ski. 0:46:18.260 --> 0:46:18.860 At the same. 0:46:18.860 --> 0:46:23.060 Time, right? We did it with no lessons. We took 0:46:23.060 --> 0:46:25.580 a chairlift to the top of a mountain, strapped skis 0:46:25.580 --> 0:46:28.010 to our feet and we're like, Let's get to the bottom. 0:46:28.010 --> 0:46:28.759 Because that's how we. 0:46:28.760 --> 0:46:31.040 Learnt to snowboard like 20, 20 years. 0:46:31.550 --> 0:46:32.180 Before. 0:46:32.180 --> 0:46:33.770 It's infuriating because you're like. 0:46:33.770 --> 0:46:35.330 Captain Competent. 0:46:35.330 --> 0:46:37.489 And you're like, It's fine. You just lean into it. 0:46:37.489 --> 0:46:39.020 You just use your edges. I'm like, What are you 0:46:39.020 --> 0:46:39.800 talking about? 0:46:39.800 --> 0:46:41.810 And it took me so long to get to the 0:46:41.810 --> 0:46:44.120 same point that you got to within the first day. 0:46:44.480 --> 0:46:48.000 So I think that you are just someone who. At 0:46:48.000 --> 0:46:52.170 least with physical, like hobbies, things like that. You have that. 0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:58.839 Natural capacity to learn on the fly to embody your 0:46:58.840 --> 0:47:01.150 lessons really quickly. I'm not. 0:47:01.719 --> 0:47:05.650 So maybe this question is for you then, because yeah, 0:47:06.790 --> 0:47:11.860 I took that whole article and the whole theme and 0:47:11.860 --> 0:47:15.040 embracing the beginner mindset because I love Yeah, I love 0:47:15.040 --> 0:47:18.730 that feeling of learning something new because you do make 0:47:18.730 --> 0:47:21.910 huge strides very quickly, or I do. 0:47:22.690 --> 0:47:24.790 Do you then get bored. 0:47:24.790 --> 0:47:26.110 With something like once you've. 0:47:26.110 --> 0:47:29.530 Gotten beyond the beginner mindset and you're at like an intermediate. 0:47:30.130 --> 0:47:33.580 So the gains, the gains and advantages slow down? Yeah. 0:47:33.820 --> 0:47:34.330 Do you then. 0:47:34.330 --> 0:47:35.560 Get bored and give up? 0:47:36.280 --> 0:47:37.870 Well then it will come down to how much I 0:47:37.870 --> 0:47:42.580 really want to do something right. Is, you know, am I. 0:47:42.610 --> 0:47:45.640 Am I benefiting from it? Is it fun? 0:47:46.180 --> 0:47:47.170 Right, Right. 0:47:47.170 --> 0:47:49.879 Yeah. Which kind of taps into the themes of that article. 0:47:49.930 --> 0:47:52.600 They're doing it because they just love it, right? Like, 0:47:52.600 --> 0:48:01.420 they just. It's pure. Like, just. Enjoyment. Okay. So my 0:48:01.420 --> 0:48:10.290 question for you then is. Talk about. Pottery as an 0:48:10.290 --> 0:48:14.750 example of a hobby that you've started. Later in the 0:48:14.750 --> 0:48:16.250 next couple of years. 0:48:17.540 --> 0:48:18.680 What's that been like? 0:48:18.860 --> 0:48:21.570 It's been really interesting, actually. And this is what I wanted. 0:48:21.590 --> 0:48:23.780 This is why I wanted to touch on this topic, 0:48:23.780 --> 0:48:26.420 because I wrote about it a couple of weeks ago 0:48:26.420 --> 0:48:32.270 and got some really interesting responses. So I started pottery. 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:35.220 I don't know. You bought me like a class pass 0:48:35.480 --> 0:48:38.239 Class Promise 2021. 0:48:38.600 --> 0:48:39.620 Yeah, right. Okay. 0:48:39.620 --> 0:48:44.690 And I went for three months, absolutely loved it and 0:48:45.050 --> 0:48:46.219 fell in love with it. 0:48:46.219 --> 0:48:51.149 Immediately and within. I'm going to say 3 or 4 weeks. 0:48:51.420 --> 0:48:52.110 I was coming. 0:48:52.110 --> 0:48:52.800 Home. 0:48:52.980 --> 0:48:54.150 And saying things to you. 0:48:54.150 --> 0:48:54.470 Like. 0:48:54.600 --> 0:48:57.529 I'd like I'd love to start my own little pottery studio. 0:48:57.570 --> 0:48:59.310 And start selling some. Yeah, I. 0:48:59.310 --> 0:49:02.520 Mean, I could barely throw like, anything at this point. 0:49:02.670 --> 0:49:04.739 You had a store somewhere, like. 0:49:04.950 --> 0:49:06.180 You know, like. Yeah. 0:49:06.300 --> 0:49:08.550 And this is a pattern. 0:49:08.550 --> 0:49:11.610 That I have followed over and over and over. It 0:49:11.610 --> 0:49:14.669 is literally how I ended up with an accidental jewelry 0:49:14.670 --> 0:49:19.620 label that lasted me six years. I enjoyed making jewelry, 0:49:19.620 --> 0:49:21.299 and suddenly people are like. 0:49:21.300 --> 0:49:23.600 You should, you should sell these at markets. 0:49:23.630 --> 0:49:28.950 I'm like, Yeah, should. And it gave a reason or 0:49:28.950 --> 0:49:33.509 a purpose to what was previously a hobby. And that's 0:49:33.510 --> 0:49:35.430 where I landed with pottery as well. I'm like, Well, 0:49:35.430 --> 0:49:37.649 if I'm going to be spending this time and money 0:49:37.650 --> 0:49:41.460 doing this thing, it should pay its own way. And 0:49:41.460 --> 0:49:45.360 I've since walked that back because I realized that I 0:49:45.360 --> 0:49:47.700 stopped enjoying it as much when I started to think 0:49:47.700 --> 0:49:53.759 about what it would look like to have a creative 0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:58.560 side hustle like that. Um, and it's, it's not the 0:49:58.560 --> 0:50:00.239 reason I was doing it, the reason I wanted to 0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:02.370 do it and the reason I actually really enjoyed it 0:50:02.370 --> 0:50:07.290 is because it is a, it's a sensory creative experience. 0:50:07.290 --> 0:50:09.570 And when I'm at the pottery studio. 0:50:09.930 --> 0:50:14.339 I don't think about anything else. I just make and 0:50:14.340 --> 0:50:15.509 it's delightful. 0:50:15.510 --> 0:50:16.799 And even if I have. 0:50:16.800 --> 0:50:18.420 To drag myself there. 0:50:19.180 --> 0:50:21.549 Really don't want to go. Other stuff that I should 0:50:21.550 --> 0:50:27.200 be doing every time I go and sit down. I'm 0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:30.200 grateful and I'm so glad that I showed up. So 0:50:30.200 --> 0:50:34.189 I shared a quote over on the tortoise a couple 0:50:34.190 --> 0:50:38.900 of weeks ago from Tricia Hersey, who is the founder 0:50:38.900 --> 0:50:42.859 of the NAP Ministry. And people had some thoughts on it. 0:50:43.340 --> 0:50:43.700 Okay. 0:50:43.700 --> 0:50:47.299 Yeah. So her quote is being booked and busy is 0:50:47.300 --> 0:50:50.750 not a flex to me. Being relaxed and aligned and 0:50:50.750 --> 0:50:54.320 living in leisure with hobbies you don't monetize is a 0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:58.880 flex to me. You'll be proud of overworking and constant labor. 0:50:58.880 --> 0:51:00.410 It makes no sense. 0:51:01.150 --> 0:51:02.500 And I get why people were. 0:51:02.500 --> 0:51:06.339 Rattled by that, because it really does challenge our. 0:51:06.340 --> 0:51:07.570 Mentality. And the one. 0:51:07.570 --> 0:51:09.040 That I have carried around with me for a very 0:51:09.040 --> 0:51:16.180 long time of this needs to make monetary sense. So 0:51:16.180 --> 0:51:19.980 that was I think it ruffled some feathers because and 0:51:20.050 --> 0:51:23.620 I don't necessarily say that I agree with that in 0:51:23.620 --> 0:51:25.750 like a black and white sense, I think that there's 0:51:25.750 --> 0:51:28.090 going to be a whole spectrum of. 0:51:28.880 --> 0:51:30.110 People's experience. 0:51:30.110 --> 0:51:33.410 Around hobbies. And sometimes people do take up a hobby 0:51:33.410 --> 0:51:37.520 and they realize that they could genuinely make it a 0:51:37.520 --> 0:51:40.219 side hustle or their work. 0:51:40.460 --> 0:51:41.660 That's how I became a. 0:51:41.660 --> 0:51:44.299 Writer by doing that. That's true. You know, it was 0:51:44.300 --> 0:51:46.370 a hobby for a very, very long time before I 0:51:46.370 --> 0:51:49.760 ever earned a cent from it. So I have no 0:51:49.760 --> 0:51:53.000 issue with monetizing our hobbies. But I think it's just 0:51:53.000 --> 0:51:59.770 interesting that that is. Almost always my go to first 0:51:59.770 --> 0:52:01.690 and I have to walk myself back from it. 0:52:02.890 --> 0:52:06.160 So yeah, I think that the idea of having. 0:52:06.160 --> 0:52:09.040 Hobbies that are simply for enjoyment sake. 0:52:10.210 --> 0:52:11.440 Is something that. 0:52:11.440 --> 0:52:12.549 I'm going to keep. 0:52:12.550 --> 0:52:13.540 Exploring. 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:16.629 What are your hobbies? 0:52:17.710 --> 0:52:23.140 My hobbies are, I guess is fitness or hobby? No, 0:52:23.140 --> 0:52:27.760 that's a that's a, I guess a a category onto itself, 0:52:27.760 --> 0:52:28.420 isn't it? 0:52:28.540 --> 0:52:28.960 Yeah. 0:52:28.960 --> 0:52:33.040 I mean, is a hobby something that you do without purpose? 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:34.569 Like it's almost like. 0:52:34.570 --> 0:52:36.070 Saying is meditation or. 0:52:36.070 --> 0:52:36.910 Hobby. I don't know. 0:52:37.630 --> 0:52:39.970 That has purpose to everything, has purpose or if you 0:52:39.969 --> 0:52:41.770 want it to. Yeah, I mean you. 0:52:42.850 --> 0:52:45.730 I don't have a traditional hobby, I will say that. 0:52:46.690 --> 0:52:48.459 So you're learning Japanese? 0:52:48.670 --> 0:52:49.080 Yeah. 0:52:49.090 --> 0:52:50.939 Would you classify that as a hobby? 0:52:50.989 --> 0:52:52.930 I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either. 0:52:54.300 --> 0:52:56.489 Because I do want to be a translator. 0:52:59.310 --> 0:53:04.140 By the time you're 80. That's what you're up skilling for? 0:53:04.350 --> 0:53:05.610 Exactly. Yeah. 0:53:05.969 --> 0:53:09.420 So, okay, you learn Japanese and there is obviously a 0:53:09.420 --> 0:53:12.180 purpose to that, which is to be able to speak Japanese. But, 0:53:12.180 --> 0:53:14.460 you know, are you doing it because you enjoy it 0:53:14.460 --> 0:53:16.740 for the process or are you doing it because of 0:53:16.739 --> 0:53:17.880 the outcome? 0:53:18.060 --> 0:53:26.060 I'm doing it to. Improve my mental. Physical mental. 0:53:27.260 --> 0:53:30.000 Power. Okay. Okay. So it's a brain. 0:53:30.020 --> 0:53:34.880 A brain power type. Thing is. Yeah, that's basically what 0:53:34.880 --> 0:53:37.430 I'm doing it. And next time I go to Japan, 0:53:37.430 --> 0:53:40.069 I'd like to be able to converse. 0:53:40.070 --> 0:53:41.510 Sure. That's a cool. 0:53:41.510 --> 0:53:43.219 Yeah, cool kind of goal. 0:53:43.640 --> 0:53:45.890 You play golf? Would you say golf as a hobby? 0:53:46.010 --> 0:53:47.840 It's not a sport, that's for sure. 0:53:48.380 --> 0:53:48.950 Oh. 0:53:50.360 --> 0:53:51.650 Well, then his chest was bought. 0:53:52.820 --> 0:53:55.610 Yeah. So I think I have a lot in saying 0:53:55.610 --> 0:53:57.980 I don't have traditional hobbies. I have a lot of 0:53:57.980 --> 0:54:01.219 things that I like to do that are either leisure, 0:54:01.219 --> 0:54:02.660 leisure based. 0:54:03.830 --> 0:54:05.089 You're describing hobbies. 0:54:05.719 --> 0:54:06.680 You surf. 0:54:06.680 --> 0:54:07.820 Okay, Surfing. 0:54:07.840 --> 0:54:08.990 We stand up, paddle board. 0:54:09.770 --> 0:54:19.460 You know, fitness, CrossFit type, exercising, um, video games. Reading. Reading. 0:54:19.460 --> 0:54:23.000 Yeah. Playing guitar. Playing guitar. Yeah. 0:54:23.000 --> 0:54:24.290 You don't have any hobbies? 0:54:24.380 --> 0:54:31.840 Okay, but I kind of. I don't have like a 0:54:31.840 --> 0:54:34.839 hobby that I would hang my head on. Of all 0:54:34.840 --> 0:54:37.719 those things, like what am I like? What's my main hobby? 0:54:37.719 --> 0:54:40.060 I don't think I could tell. You know, I don't 0:54:40.060 --> 0:54:41.259 think I'd have one. 0:54:41.350 --> 0:54:42.910 You're multi potential, right? 0:54:43.330 --> 0:54:47.650 Yeah. I would love to have a hobby. And I. 0:54:47.650 --> 0:54:51.040 I envy the people that have their one hobby that 0:54:51.040 --> 0:54:54.820 they are just. It's almost all consuming. 0:54:55.239 --> 0:54:55.630 But then that. 0:54:55.630 --> 0:54:56.529 Goes like back to like. 0:54:56.530 --> 0:55:00.069 A train. A toy train. Yeah. Okay. 0:55:00.130 --> 0:55:03.370 Model the Walt Disney Neil Young type. 0:55:03.460 --> 0:55:04.570 Yeah. Yeah. 0:55:04.690 --> 0:55:06.880 I would never do that. That does not interest me, 0:55:06.890 --> 0:55:07.870 but the equivalent. 0:55:07.870 --> 0:55:08.440 Right. Okay. 0:55:08.530 --> 0:55:10.900 When you said train, I thought of that guy who 0:55:11.020 --> 0:55:14.140 is like, huge on TikTok and YouTube, you know, the 0:55:14.140 --> 0:55:16.090 guy who wears the head mounted. 0:55:16.870 --> 0:55:17.710 And he's forget his. 0:55:17.710 --> 0:55:19.470 Name, but he's obsessed with. 0:55:19.570 --> 0:55:20.920 He's just so joyful. 0:55:20.920 --> 0:55:24.489 The passion. That's what I want. I want that passion. Right. 0:55:24.489 --> 0:55:26.800 So then going back to the article that like led 0:55:26.800 --> 0:55:27.610 us into this part of the. 0:55:27.760 --> 0:55:32.260 That's almost the opposite of that. So this person, the surfer, 0:55:32.260 --> 0:55:34.750 is like, I do it, you know, Saturday morning and 0:55:34.750 --> 0:55:38.750 it is. It is this window of time where I 0:55:38.780 --> 0:55:41.600 happily suck and then I move on with my life 0:55:41.600 --> 0:55:45.860 and it's like it's enjoyable for what it is, but 0:55:45.860 --> 0:55:48.020 it is not all consuming. It is not like my 0:55:48.020 --> 0:55:51.260 great passion. Yeah, I'm not saying there's like, right or wrong. 0:55:51.260 --> 0:55:53.030 I just think it's really interesting that. 0:55:53.330 --> 0:55:54.410 We can. 0:55:54.410 --> 0:55:58.279 Create space in our lives for hobbies and they can 0:55:58.280 --> 0:56:02.690 take up vastly different amounts of emotional space. That's so. 0:56:02.690 --> 0:56:03.650 True. Yeah. 0:56:04.010 --> 0:56:05.450 Yeah. And I go through periods. 0:56:05.450 --> 0:56:09.350 I think, where I have almost an obsession with certain hobbies. 0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:12.359 And then there's other ones that I just slip in 0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:15.960 and out of because they are literally enjoyable. And so 0:56:15.960 --> 0:56:18.620 I pop in and I enjoy them and then I 0:56:18.630 --> 0:56:20.720 pop out. Mm. 0:56:24.250 --> 0:56:25.300 Hobbes. Hobbes. 0:56:25.300 --> 0:56:26.020 Man, they're. 0:56:26.020 --> 0:56:26.710 Weird. 0:56:27.160 --> 0:56:32.780 I would love to know people listening. What your hobbies 0:56:32.780 --> 0:56:33.200 are because. 0:56:33.200 --> 0:56:34.799 People have really cool hobbies. 0:56:34.820 --> 0:56:35.480 Oh so. 0:56:35.480 --> 0:56:38.060 Cool. I get hobby envy. 0:56:38.540 --> 0:56:39.620 That's interesting. 0:56:41.260 --> 0:56:43.630 Why I surface level hobby. 0:56:44.670 --> 0:56:45.540 But that's okay. 0:56:46.820 --> 0:56:48.420 I don't want to be like that surfer. 0:56:49.350 --> 0:56:52.799 Why you're having a really hard time with that. Why? 0:56:54.550 --> 0:56:57.400 Because I don't like it. Sucks to suck. 0:56:58.660 --> 0:57:00.700 I think it's enjoyable to suck. 0:57:00.730 --> 0:57:03.370 This is me saying at the beginning of this conversation. 0:57:03.370 --> 0:57:05.260 Being a beginner is so joyful. 0:57:06.790 --> 0:57:07.390 I don't think you. 0:57:07.390 --> 0:57:08.170 Believed that. 0:57:08.170 --> 0:57:08.890 Even when you said. 0:57:08.890 --> 0:57:09.250 It. 0:57:10.660 --> 0:57:12.370 I'm gonna have to take that one day just to 0:57:12.370 --> 0:57:13.360 do some self. 0:57:14.540 --> 0:57:15.640 Self analysis. 0:57:16.140 --> 0:57:16.520 Yeah. 0:57:17.300 --> 0:57:17.840 Okay. 0:57:19.130 --> 0:57:20.940 Yeah. So let us know what your hobbies are. 0:57:20.960 --> 0:57:23.870 So when I say, let us know that we have 0:57:23.870 --> 0:57:28.709 a new home, by the way, on the Internet. If you. 0:57:28.720 --> 0:57:33.130 So I'm writing on Substack. I'm writing a weekly newsletter 0:57:33.130 --> 0:57:34.550 called The Tortoise. 0:57:34.570 --> 0:57:34.960 Funnily. 0:57:34.960 --> 0:57:37.870 Enough, over on Substack. And that's where you're going to 0:57:37.870 --> 0:57:42.460 find Shownotes for episodes moving forward. So there will be 0:57:42.460 --> 0:57:45.880 a link in the app or whatever app you're listening 0:57:45.910 --> 0:57:47.530 to this on. There'll be a link there that will 0:57:47.530 --> 0:57:49.840 take you over to the tortoise on Substack. But it's 0:57:49.840 --> 0:57:56.180 Brooke McAlary. Substack. Com is the name and. You can 0:57:56.180 --> 0:58:01.010 just search for the episode number for each episode of 0:58:01.010 --> 0:58:04.070 The Tortoise moving forward and you'll find all the show notes. 0:58:04.070 --> 0:58:08.690 So obviously today's episode one, any links that we any papers, 0:58:08.690 --> 0:58:12.080 any articles that we talk about will link to there? 0:58:12.350 --> 0:58:14.930 But while you're there, let us know what your hobbies 0:58:14.930 --> 0:58:17.600 are because Ben needs some new ones. 0:58:23.780 --> 0:58:25.010 Thank you. Yes. 0:58:26.870 --> 0:58:31.830 So final segment. I know you love the idea. 0:58:31.830 --> 0:58:32.700 Of segments. 0:58:33.540 --> 0:58:35.550 Is a brief check. 0:58:35.550 --> 0:58:38.040 In. So this is where we will talk about typically 0:58:38.040 --> 0:58:39.330 about your. 0:58:41.140 --> 0:58:41.650 Uh. 0:58:42.130 --> 0:58:43.940 Movements towards a four day workweek. 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:44.710 Okay. Yep. 0:58:44.710 --> 0:58:46.930 So this is the regular check in part. Yeah. 0:58:46.960 --> 0:58:47.350 Okay. 0:58:47.770 --> 0:58:49.480 But we're not going to do that because. 0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:50.620 We've already done that today. 0:58:50.830 --> 0:58:53.350 And you're now going to ask me. 0:58:53.350 --> 0:58:54.040 About my. 0:58:55.540 --> 0:58:56.350 My running. 0:58:56.350 --> 0:59:01.030 Like a well oiled machine. So one so beginning of 0:59:01.030 --> 0:59:06.430 the year, four day work week for me. One percenters 0:59:06.430 --> 0:59:14.140 for you. Has the 1%. Movement going. 0:59:14.740 --> 0:59:15.250 Movement. 0:59:15.730 --> 0:59:20.440 It's going you know what? It's been a phenomenal. It's 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:22.990 had a phenomenal impact on. 0:59:24.830 --> 0:59:27.290 The way I spend my time. 0:59:27.290 --> 0:59:30.980 So I'm not going to kind of rehash it all here. 0:59:31.010 --> 0:59:33.320 We spoke about it a little bit on the last 0:59:33.320 --> 0:59:35.840 couple of episodes of the Slow Home podcast. So if 0:59:35.840 --> 0:59:38.000 you haven't listened to those, you can just go back 0:59:39.140 --> 0:59:42.310 a couple of episodes. Same feed in the same feed. 0:59:42.380 --> 0:59:43.160 Same feed. 0:59:43.340 --> 0:59:46.430 Take a listen to those. But I also wrote quite 0:59:46.430 --> 0:59:48.440 a lengthy post about it. 0:59:48.440 --> 0:59:49.040 On The. 0:59:49.040 --> 0:59:52.430 Tortoise that you can go and read. But essentially. 0:59:52.430 --> 0:59:53.210 It's. 0:59:54.270 --> 0:59:59.310 Using the idea of 1% as a tool. So either 1% 0:59:59.310 --> 1:00:02.270 of our day being 15 minutes roughly of our day, 1:00:02.280 --> 1:00:05.970 what can I do for 15 minutes that will be 1:00:05.970 --> 1:00:09.570 values aligned that will make me feel better, that will 1:00:09.570 --> 1:00:12.450 move me a step closer towards, you know, a goal 1:00:12.450 --> 1:00:15.510 or something that I'm working towards. That's one way of 1:00:15.510 --> 1:00:18.120 using it. The other way of using the 1% is 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:21.600 what is something that I can do that will improve 1:00:21.600 --> 1:00:26.510 or change or grow. An area of my life by 1%, 1:00:26.750 --> 1:00:31.360 you know, and that can be something tiny, that can be, um, 1:00:31.820 --> 1:00:36.200 you know, making that small extra effort in whatever area 1:00:36.200 --> 1:00:40.160 it is in life, a relationship, work, creativity, play health, 1:00:40.640 --> 1:00:46.580 and just embracing the idea of continuous, gradual, slow and 1:00:46.580 --> 1:00:48.230 steady improvement. 1:00:49.410 --> 1:00:52.020 So that's it in a nutshell. You can hear Joey 1:00:52.030 --> 1:00:57.390 snoring behind me, and it's been phenomenal. So I. 1:00:57.750 --> 1:00:59.130 Every morning when I wake up. 1:00:59.130 --> 1:00:59.880 I. 1:01:00.210 --> 1:01:03.690 Write in a log book. It's something that Austin Kleon 1:01:03.690 --> 1:01:06.810 writes about and I have copied. And essentially I go 1:01:06.810 --> 1:01:09.570 over the day before and I look at the day before. 1:01:09.720 --> 1:01:13.200 I know what he's really going for it. I look 1:01:13.200 --> 1:01:13.920 at the day before. 1:01:13.920 --> 1:01:20.010 And I think about what 1% I have attempted or 1:01:20.010 --> 1:01:22.500 I have managed, you know, and it might be something like. 1:01:22.500 --> 1:01:23.720 Stretching in the morning. 1:01:23.730 --> 1:01:26.100 To me, that's a 1% improvement in the way that 1:01:26.100 --> 1:01:27.660 I feel during the day. 1:01:28.080 --> 1:01:29.430 Physically, it can. 1:01:29.430 --> 1:01:32.730 Be journaling, It can be taking the extra time to 1:01:32.730 --> 1:01:33.090 sit with the. 1:01:33.090 --> 1:01:33.930 Kids when. 1:01:33.930 --> 1:01:35.610 They go to bed. It can be taking the dogs 1:01:35.610 --> 1:01:39.780 for a walk. It can be literally 15 minutes spent exercising. 1:01:39.780 --> 1:01:42.990 It can be 15 minutes spent weeding the garden. And 1:01:42.990 --> 1:01:45.060 I just make a note of all of those things. 1:01:45.060 --> 1:01:48.180 And two things have happened. I think I'm looking for 1:01:48.180 --> 1:01:52.470 more opportunities to make those tiny shifts that make no. 1:01:52.470 --> 1:01:53.010 Material. 1:01:53.010 --> 1:01:56.310 Difference to my output, but make a huge difference over 1:01:56.310 --> 1:01:58.240 the course of a week or a month or a year. 1:01:58.260 --> 1:01:59.050 Absolutely. 1:01:59.070 --> 1:02:01.470 So I'm looking for opportunities to do it. But I'm 1:02:01.470 --> 1:02:05.580 also seeing that I've been doing lots of 1%. 1:02:05.730 --> 1:02:06.750 Anyway anyway. 1:02:06.750 --> 1:02:10.320 And that is empowering. Yeah, that's going okay. I know 1:02:10.320 --> 1:02:11.820 what's important to me and. 1:02:11.820 --> 1:02:13.470 I'm already. 1:02:13.470 --> 1:02:15.630 Living like it. That feels really. 1:02:15.630 --> 1:02:16.230 Great. 1:02:16.230 --> 1:02:17.490 Yeah. So I. 1:02:17.490 --> 1:02:19.230 Try every. 1:02:19.230 --> 1:02:20.880 Month to have a different. 1:02:20.880 --> 1:02:21.630 Focus. 1:02:21.630 --> 1:02:24.270 Just to see, you know, what I can do with 1:02:24.270 --> 1:02:30.210 this 1%. And this month I've been focusing on getting 1:02:30.210 --> 1:02:33.660 back to writing my middle grade kids novel. 1:02:33.840 --> 1:02:36.479 And it has been unbelievable the. 1:02:36.480 --> 1:02:39.840 Difference that the 1% has made. So for the first 1:02:39.840 --> 1:02:42.870 couple of weeks of the month, I spent 15 minutes 1:02:42.870 --> 1:02:46.260 after writing my log book in the morning, just working 1:02:46.260 --> 1:02:50.410 through my old drafts, just looking at them, making notes, um, 1:02:50.970 --> 1:02:54.450 noting down anything, you know, structural story stuff that needs 1:02:54.450 --> 1:02:58.710 to happen. And then for the second half of the month, 1:02:58.710 --> 1:03:06.270 I'm now able to outline. The entire book is really. 1:03:06.270 --> 1:03:08.910 Hard to concentrate with you snoring like that. 1:03:08.920 --> 1:03:09.720 Unedited. 1:03:10.020 --> 1:03:14.250 Yep, very candid. This is life. So, yeah, and. 1:03:14.550 --> 1:03:16.860 Spending that 15 minutes a day has allowed me to 1:03:16.860 --> 1:03:22.560 now sit down and do more intensive work of outlining. 1:03:22.560 --> 1:03:25.500 So it's more like 1%, but for a week. So 1:03:25.500 --> 1:03:27.180 I'll sit down for maybe two hours on a Saturday 1:03:27.180 --> 1:03:30.210 or a Sunday and work on it. And I'm at 1:03:30.210 --> 1:03:32.850 the point now where I've started a brand new draft 1:03:32.850 --> 1:03:35.550 and have a complete outline for the entire book, which 1:03:35.550 --> 1:03:36.630 I've never had before. 1:03:36.640 --> 1:03:39.120 Incredible. And that's all from just to the 1%. 1:03:39.130 --> 1:03:39.570 Yeah. 1:03:39.690 --> 1:03:45.330 So I knew theoretically that. 1:03:45.330 --> 1:03:48.360 1% a day would make a difference. And it adds 1:03:48.360 --> 1:03:51.000 up to way more than just the effort of a 1:03:51.000 --> 1:03:55.020 singular day. It becomes very quickly, far greater than the 1:03:55.020 --> 1:03:56.160 sum of its parts. 1:03:57.090 --> 1:03:57.980 I knew that. 1:03:57.990 --> 1:04:01.200 But seeing it in a very real sense has been 1:04:01.200 --> 1:04:05.890 so cool. So, yes, it is going well. The 1% 1:04:05.890 --> 1:04:10.810 is going well. And I think what I'll end up finding. 1:04:11.860 --> 1:04:15.130 A need for is tilting. Yeah. 1:04:15.130 --> 1:04:15.790 You know, because. 1:04:15.790 --> 1:04:17.230 You add add. 1:04:17.230 --> 1:04:19.660 15 1% to your day and all of a sudden. 1:04:19.660 --> 1:04:22.820 Your days just 15% Fuller Yeah. You know. Yeah. 1:04:22.840 --> 1:04:27.550 That's not what this is about. It's not about. Exponential growth. 1:04:27.550 --> 1:04:31.030 It's just about a slow, steady commitment to. 1:04:31.820 --> 1:04:32.420 A thing. 1:04:32.690 --> 1:04:33.800 And in. 1:04:33.830 --> 1:04:34.220 That. 1:04:34.940 --> 1:04:39.830 In that capacity. It's been really genuinely powerful. 1:04:40.280 --> 1:04:40.940 And. 1:04:41.600 --> 1:04:44.780 It's amazing. Some may argue that the 1% is basically 1:04:44.780 --> 1:04:46.280 a productivity tool. 1:04:47.090 --> 1:04:48.590 And you can argue that that's fine. 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:51.290 I think it depends how what lens you look at 1:04:51.290 --> 1:04:55.460 it through. But there is absolutely endless research that shows 1:04:55.460 --> 1:05:00.050 that deep, concerted effort over short periods of time is 1:05:00.050 --> 1:05:03.220 often far more productive. 1:05:03.230 --> 1:05:04.310 I would believe that. 1:05:04.310 --> 1:05:08.960 Then spending an eight hours a day, you know, half doing. 1:05:08.960 --> 1:05:09.770 Things well, my. 1:05:09.770 --> 1:05:14.270 Japanese lessons are that's my 1% at the moment is 1:05:14.270 --> 1:05:20.370 all around just doing 15 minutes a day. And. Anymore 1:05:20.370 --> 1:05:23.520 and you become so firstly so fatigued with it. Right? 1:05:25.470 --> 1:05:27.870 And because it's new information, too. So it's sort of 1:05:27.870 --> 1:05:33.090 like it's pretty intensive like what you're learning. But I 1:05:33.090 --> 1:05:36.480 enjoy it now. Like, I look forward to that 15 1:05:36.480 --> 1:05:41.670 minutes of of learning Japanese. I'm using Duolingo. I know 1:05:41.670 --> 1:05:43.620 there's a number of apps out there, but that's the 1:05:43.620 --> 1:05:46.320 one I'm using and I'm just having a lot of 1:05:46.320 --> 1:05:49.920 fun with it. Yeah. I'd previously studied it at school, 1:05:49.920 --> 1:05:52.950 so I came to it with quite a bit of 1:05:52.950 --> 1:06:00.460 base knowledge. Yeah. And just. I look forward to in 1:06:00.460 --> 1:06:01.930 12 months, seeing. 1:06:03.340 --> 1:06:06.010 Where you're at with where I'm at? Absolutely. Yeah. 1:06:07.030 --> 1:06:10.930 And I think that would be a fantastic measure of 1:06:11.230 --> 1:06:13.780 the benefits of the 1% of the 1%. 1:06:13.790 --> 1:06:14.320 Yeah. 1:06:14.450 --> 1:06:18.240 So put a note in your diary. We're coming back. 1:06:18.250 --> 1:06:18.670 Yeah. 1:06:19.090 --> 1:06:21.160 You know, beginning of next year to see how your 1:06:21.160 --> 1:06:21.970 Japanese is. 1:06:21.980 --> 1:06:22.290 Hey. 1:06:23.850 --> 1:06:27.720 Very good. So I think that's that's sort of it 1:06:27.720 --> 1:06:31.740 for our first episode of The Tortoise. If you haven't. 1:06:32.670 --> 1:06:35.430 Yet subscribed, if you found your way here on a 1:06:35.430 --> 1:06:40.180 podcast app. Uh, make sure you hit subscribe. This is 1:06:40.180 --> 1:06:42.610 the same feed as the Slow Home podcast. So if 1:06:42.610 --> 1:06:45.040 you were a previous subscriber and you've noticed us pop 1:06:45.040 --> 1:06:47.170 up and you're like, What the heck is this? We've 1:06:47.170 --> 1:06:50.740 renamed the feed so that you won't have lost access 1:06:50.740 --> 1:06:53.230 to our 350 past episodes. So you can go back 1:06:53.230 --> 1:06:55.960 and take a listen to those. And if you haven't 1:06:55.960 --> 1:07:00.100 yet signed up to receive the tortoise letters, they go 1:07:00.100 --> 1:07:04.090 out every Friday at this point, Australia time. 1:07:04.570 --> 1:07:06.760 And you head over to Substack. 1:07:06.760 --> 1:07:09.850 And add your name to those. There is also an 1:07:09.850 --> 1:07:13.480 option to become a paid subscriber and for that you 1:07:13.480 --> 1:07:16.300 it's $5 a month or $50 a year. You also 1:07:16.300 --> 1:07:19.360 get access to workshops that will. 1:07:19.360 --> 1:07:21.250 Run roughly every. 1:07:21.250 --> 1:07:24.280 Quarter. So 3 or 4 a year. I've just wrapped 1:07:24.280 --> 1:07:28.120 up the first workshop, which went for three weeks and 1:07:28.120 --> 1:07:31.930 it was all about values, how to identify your values 1:07:31.930 --> 1:07:34.780 and then how to use them to help you make decisions. 1:07:34.780 --> 1:07:36.669 So if that's something that you're interested in, you can 1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:38.710 sign up for $5 for the. 1:07:38.710 --> 1:07:40.360 Month, get access to that straight. 1:07:40.360 --> 1:07:43.330 Away. But otherwise, for the Friday letters, it. 1:07:43.330 --> 1:07:46.000 Is completely free. And I would love you to come 1:07:46.000 --> 1:07:48.940 over there and join us. We've got a really beautiful community. 1:07:48.940 --> 1:07:54.040 That's that's starting to spring up around our conversations. 1:07:54.040 --> 1:07:57.040 We have a chat every Friday afternoon. Yeah. So come 1:07:57.040 --> 1:08:00.580 and join us please. Brookman gallery.substack.com. 1:08:08.870 --> 1:08:13.280 What's the collective noun for a group of tortoises? Oh, 1:08:13.280 --> 1:08:16.850 I don't know. That'd be funny. Call that community. 1:08:16.970 --> 1:08:18.890 I think we looked at that at some point, and 1:08:18.890 --> 1:08:21.170 it wasn't great. I don't know what it was. 1:08:21.410 --> 1:08:22.820 We could call it a plod. 1:08:22.820 --> 1:08:23.600 A plot of tortoises. 1:08:23.630 --> 1:08:29.060 A plot of tortoises. Love it. Just a quick favor, 1:08:29.060 --> 1:08:33.170 if you like. We're not sure about the discoverability of 1:08:33.170 --> 1:08:36.770 the show as we've changed from Slow Your Home to 1:08:36.770 --> 1:08:39.889 the tortoise. What really helps with that is if you 1:08:39.890 --> 1:08:46.209 leave a rating and or a review on. Apple Podcasts, Spotify, 1:08:46.210 --> 1:08:50.950 or your favorite podcast platform. That just means that we're 1:08:50.950 --> 1:08:55.690 more likely to be searched and people find us through 1:08:55.689 --> 1:08:59.110 those apps if you if we have some current ratings 1:08:59.110 --> 1:09:01.360 and reviews. So it would be great if you've got 1:09:01.360 --> 1:09:06.160 the time to leave us a quick rating and review, please. 1:09:07.060 --> 1:09:11.860 Until next time. And at this point, we're hitting monthly episodes. 1:09:12.340 --> 1:09:15.370 It's part of our commitment to slow and steady this year. 1:09:16.000 --> 1:09:17.200 That feels doable. 1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:21.040 So we will be back with you the third Thursday 1:09:21.310 --> 1:09:22.210 of April. 1:09:23.160 --> 1:09:25.830 Until then, take good care.