S1: The tortoise. A podcast that digs deep. Into the power
S1: of slow. I'm your host, Brooke McAlary, and I am
S1: joined by my husband, Ben McElroy.
S2: What beautiful bird noises we're hearing outside.
S1: Unedited baby.
S2: What birds are those? That's a that's a cockatoo. That's
S2: a white cockatoo. And one of those.
S1: Songs, I think.
S2: So it's just been raining here, and I feel like
S2: they always do it once it's rained.
S1: Carol Wong's and Magpies love their warbling caroling sounds.
S2: Then non stop. It's nice. It is nice. It's really nice.
S2: Welcome to episode one of the Tortoise. What a momentous occasion.
S1: Isn't it just. Isn't it? Isn't it?
S2: I guess we wanted to first of all, just go
S2: through what it is the format of the podcast moving forward,
S2: because it's going to be obviously different to the Slow
S2: Home podcast. But we're going to be coming back to
S2: a number of, I don't know, reoccurring topics, if you like,
S2: throughout the episodes.
S1: Yeah, yeah, kind of segments, almost for want of a
S1: better word segment.
S2: That sounds highly produced.
S1: Well, this is not that. So take that back.
S2: Yeah. So we want to kick off today's conversation, talking
S2: about a topic that. I've been working on, if you like,
S2: or kind of the. Deliberating on. Yes. For for a
S2: couple of months. And we also want to the idea
S2: behind this podcast is to deep dive onto a topic
S2: into a topic. So we've read quite a lot on
S2: the topic. We're not going to not always cite resources,
S2: but it's just our observations based on what we've read
S2: and what we've heard and what we've looked at.
S1: And viewing stuff through the lens of SLO, you know,
S1: and the lens that we've developed ourselves over many years
S1: of trying to live a slower kind of countercultural. Way
S1: of life, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of viewing.
S1: Things that they expand beyond the home. And I guess
S1: that's one of the things that I really. Wanted to
S1: move away from. As much as I loved the slow
S1: home pod to move beyond that, you know, into work,
S1: into community, into health, into family, into all that sort
S1: of stuff that didn't necessarily fit neatly into the conversation
S1: around home, even though we tried to be as expensive
S1: as possible with that, I think some of the stuff
S1: that we're going to tackle that we plan on tackling
S1: this year on the Tortoise is. It's just not necessarily
S1: stuff that we felt we could talk about on the
S1: podcast as it was. So yeah, I'm excited to be
S1: able to do that with. Freedom, you know? Sounds like
S1: we were locked in. We weren't. But, you know, it
S1: just feels.
S2: Exciting. Yeah, it does. It really does. It feels refreshing.
S2: It feels. We've got our podcast, I got my Bud cast, baby.
S2: We've got our podcast format back, which is Feels nice.
S1: It does go nice. Yeah. So yeah, today we're going
S1: to dig into that topic and then we've also got
S1: an article that I wanted to talk about because I
S1: kind of it's really nice, but it's all.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Yeah. There's an article that I would like to talk
S1: about because it kind of came up over on the
S1: tortoise Substack a few weeks ago, and I've been thinking
S1: about it a lot since, and then we're going to
S1: have a check in and. Yeah.
S2: All right. Well, that's the format. Very loose, but that's,
S2: I don't know, come to expect that because that's what
S2: it's going to be like moving forward. So join with
S2: us now. Grab your favorite cup of something, whatever it is.
S2: Cup of Joe. Cup of water. Glass of water. What
S2: are you drinking, bro?
S1: Absolutely nothing.
S2: Me neither. We need to probably hydrate. Let's get into it.
S2: Translation for that is Brooke, how are you?
S1: Oh, I'm very well, Mr. Cockatoo. Thank you for asking.
S2: So this is a check in. We're going to do
S2: this every episode. So. Yeah. Tell us, how are you
S2: joining us today?
S1: Uh, I'm joining you wrapped in a blanket. I feel
S1: like I'm fighting off a virus if I'm being perfectly
S1: transparent with you. But I'm all right. I went to
S1: bed at, like, 8:00 last night. I'm pretty early. Feeling
S1: well rested, felt necessary, and I'm good. I'm good. How
S1: about you?
S2: Um. I don't feel quite as rested. Disclosure. Recently, I.
S2: I invested in one of these. Fitness trackers. And become
S2: a kind of obsessed with it.
S1: This is the problem that people find with them. And you.
S4: Know what? I get it.
S2: I think I will be obsessed for the first two
S2: weeks and then I'll be like, That's my personality. It's like, okay,
S2: this is cool and I'll obsess about it. And then
S2: I'll be like, Oh, that's not worth obsessing about. So
S2: it's like the length of like the optimal length of
S2: sleep you're getting and the quality of the sleep and
S2: your sleep score and recovery and strain and all that
S2: sort of stuff. So I'm, I'm lying in bed going, Ben, relax,
S2: because your sleep score isn't going to be good if
S2: you don't go to sleep soon.
S1: I get it though. So I've worn one of those
S1: rings like a sleep tracking ring for a couple of years.
S1: And the first probably month that I wore it, it
S1: was the first thing I'd check in the morning, you know, And. Uh,
S1: the nights that I would wake up in the morning,
S1: I felt like I had a pretty good sleep. And
S1: then I'd look at my sleep score and be like,
S1: it says, it was terrible. Oh, I'm so tired. Was
S1: I tired because my app told me that I didn't
S1: sleep well? Was I tired because I actually was tired?
S1: And you're right. Like that disappears after a while. It
S1: is still really helpful and really handy at tracking long term.
S1: It's good to be long.
S2: Term, right? Like it just can't be that short.
S1: But I think focusing on each night.
S4: Is that's.
S2: Going to be exhausting pretty quickly. Yeah. So I don't
S2: think I'll be obsessed with that moving forward.
S1: How was your sleep score last night, though? Just had a.
S2: 90%.
S4: It's pretty good. It's okay. It's pretty good. Yeah. I'm
S4: a sleeper. Yeah.
S1: You are. You're very talented.
S4: I'm pretty good at sleeping.
S2: But. Yeah, so I feel. I feel okay. I feel okay.
S1: Yeah. You've been sick the.
S4: Last couple weeks.
S2: And look, all all the symptoms of COVID. But didn't
S2: have it. But just exhausted. Just maybe like the old
S2: common cold.
S4: Right?
S1: Yeah. Well, it's. It's going around. It's doing its thing.
S4: Doing its thing.
S2: And it is sort of weird, isn't it, when you
S2: have a cold and you're like, but it's not COVID.
S2: And so you think people are going to be less
S2: sympathetic almost or. Yeah. Take you less, you know.
S4: Seriously. Seriously.
S2: Like, it's weird, isn't it? Yeah. It's still a cold.
S2: It's still were.
S1: You were sick. You were literally in bed for three days. So.
S1: And that does not really happen very often. Yeah. I'm
S1: glad you're feeling better.
S2: I'm feeling okay. So that's how. That's how we are today.
S4: Yep. As we.
S2: As we now move on to our, I guess, topic
S2: of the podcast.
S4: And do.
S1: We think that plug I think podcast is funny, but
S1: I don't really know.
S2: Time will tell.
S3: Okay.
S2: So we're going to talk about this idea of the
S2: four day working week.
S4: Hot.
S1: Button issue in Australia.
S4: At the moment really is.
S2: Like countless articles that have been written in the media
S2: recently following two Australian political parties coming out recently and
S2: putting forward a proposal or legislation for a four day
S2: workweek at full pay following a number of trials internationally.
S2: I think the US have led the way and I
S2: think the UK.
S4: The UK as well. There was a number of trials.
S1: There was there was a trial in Australia that has
S1: just ended and I think that a lot of the
S1: findings have gone into the report that was put towards
S1: the parliamentary committee recently because it was overwhelmingly positive. Yeah, funny.
S4: That well, this.
S2: Is the this is what we're seeing is that almost
S2: every article, 99% of the articles I've read, they're the
S2: results are all very, very positive from not only. Uh, the,
S2: the mental aspect of a mental health aspect of it,
S2: but from productivity, from morale, all the all like you
S2: look at all the indicators and they're all very, very positive.
S2: Based on what a four day workweek could look like
S2: now full disclosure at the beginning of this year, in January,
S2: you know, you'll always have well, is it a New
S2: Year's resolution or is it a theme? Is it a
S2: I don't know what it is. We don't we don't
S2: really do New Year's resolutions, but we do have things
S2: that we like to focus on this year and. For you. Remember,
S2: we're sitting. Sitting down at our kitchen table, and you
S2: came up with the concept of the 1%. Yes. And.
S1: Or I didn't.
S4: You didn't come up with it?
S1: I tapped into it myself. Yes.
S4: Yeah.
S2: And you. You started to explore that and what that
S2: could look like from a in a slow living lens. Yes.
S2: Which will go on to talk about in which you've
S2: written about.
S1: Yeah. And we'll link to all of this in show
S1: notes and whatnot. But yes.
S4: But then I was.
S2: Sort of. I was looking at. A post-COVID. Labor force
S2: and looking at why I chose to go out and
S2: essentially become self employed. And on that sort of freelance
S2: project based engagements with my clients.
S1: Which was how long ago?
S2: Well, that was back in 2016. Yeah. That was a decision.
S2: I guess, brought on by what we wanted to do
S2: in travel and what we wanted to do in terms
S2: of traveling and traveling with your books and doing book
S2: tours and like this was a thing that we just
S2: had to put in place before we were to do that.
S2: So we did that. And then purely it's like a
S2: lifestyle decision, really. It enables us to live. Out of Sydney.
S2: Where the commute is not as. Because we're not commuting
S2: every day. So it's not it's not as big a factor. Yes,
S2: we still travel in the city, but it's not every day.
S1: Yeah, well, you do. I don't. Yeah.
S4: Yeah, I do.
S2: Uh. And so the lifestyle changes that's brought on. Being
S2: self-employed have been massive and and for the most part very,
S2: very positive. But then COVID came along. Right?
S4: And yes, I have heard of it with COVID.
S2: Everyone was working home from home anyway.
S1: Pretty much, yeah.
S2: And so I felt and this is going to sound
S2: really privileged. What's in it for me? Where's my advantage now? Right.
S2: Do you know what I mean? Like, and I know
S2: that sounds really selfish, but it's. I took the risk
S2: of going out, and there's massive amount of risk involved
S2: in being self-employed. You carry a lot of that risk.
S2: There's no security. Well, the argument is there's never any
S2: security anyway.
S4: Yeah, but.
S1: Like, if you get booted by a client or that
S1: can happen, it can happen overnight. And it did happen
S1: overnight during COVID with multiple clients. It was like, Oh, sorry,
S1: there's no work for you anymore. One day there was,
S1: the next day there wasn't. So yes, there is absolutely
S1: a huge amount of risk. There's no sick leave. There's
S1: no holiday pay. There's no severance pay. There's none of that.
S1: None of this is surprising, but it is part of
S1: the risk of being self-employed and why it felt like
S1: such a leap for us back in 2016, even though, yes,
S1: we were doing it for reasons, good reasons, reasons that
S1: were values aligned, it was still very risky. And you
S1: were happy to take that risk because the payoff was flexibility.
S1: Work from home, able to all those travel, all that
S1: sort of stuff. And then COVID hit and then a
S1: majority of the workforce was able to do what you
S1: had been doing, essentially, which was working from home with
S1: that flexibility, you know, painting it in a very positive light. Now,
S1: at the time, it was bloody hard for everyone.
S4: 100%.
S2: Because you were also teaching your kids as.
S4: Well, right?
S1: For a lot of people. Yeah. And, you know, living
S1: through a global pandemic and all the uncertainty that came
S1: with that. But I remember your frustration because you're like,
S1: now everyone has the flexibility and the lifestyle stuff.
S2: It's a hybrid workforce now for the majority of white
S2: collar workers is wonderful. Yeah, it's awesome because the benefits
S2: are massive. Uh. So at the beginning of the year,
S2: recognizing all that, and I was like, Well, what's the
S2: next step? Like, what's the step that I could take
S2: as a self-employed person that that positions myself in front
S2: of the curve, if you like, makes you feel out
S2: of the workforce. Like I'm getting like a little bit
S2: of a cheat code, like I'm getting a a benefit
S2: that other people aren't at the moment, you know what
S2: I mean? Like just and just being sort of aware
S2: of what the future of work looks like really, and
S2: the trends. And so reading about this four day workweek,
S2: I'm like, giddy up. Like that sounds that sounds great.
S2: And so I was challenged myself at the beginning of
S2: the year. I spoke to you and I said, I'm
S2: going to as of. April trial, a four day work week.
S2: And you then you said quite rightly, what does that
S2: look like for your clients and how how do you
S2: actually how will you actually do that? And. That's when
S2: the I don't know, like the rubber hit the road
S2: was like that's that's a very hard as a self-employed
S2: person to to manage. Yeah because as an employed person
S2: if you want to go down if you want to
S2: do a four day work week, it's a one conversation.
S4: And a contract.
S1: Change to the contract or.
S4: Stuff.
S2: With me, it's having multiple conversations and you need to
S2: align all those conversations. Yeah. So that's where I'm up to.
S2: Full disclosure, That's where I'm up to is is sort
S2: of working out. How I have that conversations and convince
S2: people that. Of the research of the proof in the
S2: data of the trials that you will get increased productivity.
S2: You will get the same level of service. You get
S2: a happier Ben McAlary? Uh, yeah. So that's, that's where
S2: that's sort of where I've got to. And I've started
S2: to have those conversations.
S1: Yeah. And what does that look like?
S2: Um. I've just been quite open and honest and just
S2: saying I'm going to be unavailable on this day from
S2: this date. Right?
S1: And what's the response been typically?
S2: No problem.
S1: Interesting.
S2: Okay. This is only with, like, one client so far. Okay.
S2: I've only had that conversation, but, yeah, I've got to
S2: have it with multiples, but, like, that's. I was expecting.
S4: Something different.
S1: You're expecting pushback or.
S3: Yeah.
S1: Yeah. Do you think that, at least in part, the
S1: acceptance Hard to say when it was just one person
S1: or one one client that. In part, it's it's not
S1: a crazy idea anymore. Like the conversation publicly in the
S1: media is that a four day workweek has merit. Whether
S1: or not organizations are going to adopt it is a
S1: whole other thing. But there's merit there. And it is
S1: no longer like the outlier who is suggesting this. Do
S1: you think that that's at least part of the reason
S1: why there was no pushback?
S2: I think there was no pushback because I didn't say
S2: I'm having a four day working week. Right. Okay. I'm
S2: just having I'm not working for you on this day.
S1: I'm I'm unavailable.
S4: On this.
S1: Day from this date. Yeah.
S4: Okay.
S2: So I'm not saying it's the because I still think
S2: there's probably a lot of stigma around it.
S4: Do you? Yeah.
S1: Yeah. So you operate in that realm and don't so yeah.
S2: I mean, I think a lot of people with this
S2: sort of these sort of issues initially quite reluctant to
S2: want to be the the first in market to do
S2: it even though the trials are.
S4: Saying there's.
S1: Certainly nowhere near the first in market anymore.
S4: But yeah anymore but.
S2: Within Australia and look there's probably companies in Australia are
S2: already doing it. There is.
S4: Yeah, yeah, yeah there is.
S2: So yeah, so I so this is, this whole thing
S2: was based on. My level of not being able to
S2: disconnect from work because everyone has a right to disconnect
S2: from work.
S1: Yes, some countries are actually legislating that now.
S2: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, by not answering phone calls
S2: out of hours or emails outside of work hours. That's
S2: crept into my. Yes, my the way that I operate,
S2: particularly with the kids leaving home early before. Uh, earlier
S2: than previous years. They're heading off earlier. They're both in
S2: high school now, so. There's more time for me to
S2: be in front of my computer. And I recognizing this. I'm.
S2: There's no benefit Like there's. That's annoyed me that I've
S2: just gone. Well I can fill that with with work
S2: and productivity for the sake of productivity.
S4: Right.
S1: Are you? Do you think you're getting through more work
S1: because of that, or are you?
S2: I really don't.
S4: Know. No.
S1: It's hard for you to track.
S2: Yeah, I really don't know.
S1: So that's that's interesting that the frustration with, like, productivity
S1: creep and. Email creep and, you know. Availability creep has
S1: flagged with you because mean I've noticed it, but I
S1: think that that's also a quite a common problem at
S1: the moment with the hybrid lots more people working from
S1: home more. There's huge amounts of research being done and,
S1: you know, articles being written about. Exactly that. The boundaries
S1: have blurred significantly for people, you know, between work and
S1: home and tech always made it tricky. But the fact
S1: that home is work for a lot of people now. Yeah, yeah.
S4: That's yeah.
S1: Is making it harder again for people to extricate themselves mentally.
S1: So that's interesting that that has kind of been highlighted
S1: to you as well. Yeah.
S2: Let me ask you this question. Okay. Do you think
S2: we are working more than we did, say, 20 to
S2: 30 years ago?
S1: How do you mean? More like.
S4: Hours.
S2: Hours in a week? Do you think we're working more
S2: as an average?
S1: Yes. Without like more context than that. Like you're talking
S1: about Australia, what kind of workers are you talking about?
S1: All that sort of stuff. But yes, I would say
S1: that yes, we are.
S2: In the developed world in what I call richer nations.
S2: We are working far less than we did 30 years ago,
S2: which absolutely shocks me because I feel like. I wasn't
S2: in the workforce 30 years ago.
S4: No, but I.
S2: Kind of was 20 years ago.
S1: You definitely were 20 years ago.
S2: But as a as a as a. Average. The population
S2: is working. Far less. There's a few reasons for this.
S2: So casualisation of the workforce, right? More people working part
S2: time compared to 20 or 30 years ago.
S4: The gig economy, gig economy.
S2: So all these all these new sort of labor forces.
S1: Which are far less secure, far.
S4: Less secure.
S2: Um, generally pay far less, uh.
S1: Zero benefits. Zero like, yeah.
S2: Like not zero, but yes, less benefits and all that
S2: sort of stuff. So. Yeah. To me, I was like, wow,
S2: that that's. That's shocking. Yeah, we are. Mental health is,
S2: you know, it's never been.
S1: Worse. Yeah. And burnout is huge. That's really interesting. So why.
S4: Is that?
S1: I think that being on constant, this is just my theory.
S1: This is not based in anything scientific. I think that
S1: people are just constantly on, you know, and even if
S1: they are not working, I know this is the case
S1: for a lot of people who work in hospitality, for example,
S1: or health care because of the casualisation of the workforce,
S1: they need to be ready to say yes to a
S1: shift tomorrow, today, tonight, whatever, you know, so people aren't
S1: given the opportunity for what was the traditional 48 hours
S1: away from work or more, you know, so people don't
S1: ever get that time to decompress. And I'd say that
S1: a lot of people like information workers and, you know,
S1: people who even aren't in those casualised sort of industries
S1: are feeling the same for different reasons because they're constantly
S1: attached to their email. They're getting text messages. They are
S1: expected to answer the phone even if it is out
S1: of work hours. So again, people aren't getting the time
S1: to decompress. So it feels like we are working more,
S1: even if, as you say, on average it's on the
S1: average is important. On average, people are working less.
S2: Because 30 years ago people didn't need a dual income
S2: to survive, right?
S4: Right. Yeah.
S2: And now that's pretty useful.
S1: It's pretty much par for the course. Of course. Yeah.
S1: If you're in a in a relationship and your cost
S1: of living. Is such that there is virtually no way
S1: one partner. Yeah can. And everything you need in order
S1: to make ends meet. And that's even looking back, like
S1: when we grew up, my mom was at home until
S1: I was in primary school, so she got a job
S1: when I was in primary school, part time job. Even
S1: that like that. I would have said years ago that
S1: that was stereotyped. Like that was the typical situation. It
S1: wasn't like even, you know, 30, 40 years ago. That
S1: wasn't necessarily the the the typical situation, but it was
S1: more common. Like now, it's I think it would be
S1: quite uncommon. I could be wrong, but I mean, again.
S1: Where's the census data? And I can tell you that, yeah,
S1: I think it would be uncommon. Yeah. So cost of
S1: living is a huge part of it too. Huge. And
S1: then you so you've got stress of meeting the rising
S1: cost of living. Wages are not increasing. Wages are decreasing
S1: on in a in a real world sense. Um. It's brutal.
S1: So I think that. It makes sense that we feel
S1: that we're working more even if we're working less.
S2: Now, I do need to put a caveat. There's a
S2: huge difference between richer and poorer nations with this. So
S2: richer nations are working fewer hours.
S4: On average, on average.
S2: Poorer nations are working far more. Right. Okay. So, yeah,
S2: look at like agricultural intensive industry within developing nations and
S2: they're working. 24 over seven. So the average is greater there.
S2: So I think innovation tech has a lot to do
S2: with it, but it's not the answer. Right? Like at
S2: the end of the day, it's a tool. And technology
S2: as a tool is winning.
S5: Yep.
S1: Yeah, it's it's interesting, though, if we come back to
S1: the four day workweek for. People like you, people like me, who,
S1: you know, work mostly on computers. Where knowledge workers. There
S1: is an argument that a four day work week will
S1: be made more broadly possible by. Embracing what tech offers
S1: for efficiency sake, whether that's AI, whether that's, you know,
S1: just being smarter with the way that we use technology
S1: to reduce what is required of us. That sounds all
S1: well and good until you put your corporate overlord hat
S1: on and they're like, Oh, are you doing less work?
S1: So we won't pay you as much? You can have
S1: a four day workweek, but we'll pay you for days.
S1: That's not what a four day workweek promises. A four
S1: day workweek, as it's being discussed at the moment is
S1: about working for four days a week.
S4: Same pace, same.
S1: Benefits, same pay, same benefits. Yes. So I think that's
S1: an important distinction to make. We're not talking about robots
S1: taking our jobs. And giving us less work to do
S1: because that will ultimately just result in us. Being paid less.
S1: That's not really the point. Although there is some evidence
S1: that certain parts of the workforce would take a pay
S1: cut if.
S4: They'd be able.
S2: To have a full day.
S4: Yes, but.
S1: I don't think that's most people.
S3: Yeah. Yeah. Um.
S2: So anyway, come with us on this journey as I
S2: explore the four day workweek and what that looks like.
S2: So I'm not doing it now. Like, it's not hasn't
S2: started yet. I'm in the process of managing expectations around it. Yeah.
S1: Which takes me to this article on The Guardian or
S1: the AFR actually, which I'll link to in the show
S1: notes that spoke to a number of. Managers for different
S1: organizations of different kinds of businesses that trialed the four
S1: day workweek. And I thought it was really interesting because
S1: one of them was like a larger corporate office, you know,
S1: that you would typically think of as well suited for
S1: a four day workweek. So they were involved. But there
S1: was also a fish and chip shop somewhere in the
S1: UK because that's a an argument that I often hear
S1: that's against the four day workweek, which is tradespeople, service.
S4: And.
S1: Anyone who works in service industry, hospitality, health care, that
S1: sort of stuff. It's not well suited to a four
S1: day workweek. And absolutely that is the case for some
S1: industries and some work. There is no way around that.
S1: But I still don't think that that's a good reason
S1: for it to not be applicable to certain industries when possible.
S1: So it was really interesting to see the different challenges
S1: that those two businesses faced. So the corporate business, he
S1: joked and he said, like, I think it was six
S1: months of six day weeks in order to prepare us
S1: for the four day workweek. And because, you know, you
S1: think about having to look at everyone's job description and
S1: what their outputs are and, you know, what the flow
S1: on effects of changing that. Like, let's say they don't
S1: no one works on a Wednesday. What does that look
S1: like for their suppliers and for their customers and all
S1: that sort of stuff? So there was a huge amount
S1: of preparation in order to. Take part in this trial.
S1: And then the fish and chip shop like they're seasonal, right?
S1: So they are in a coastal tourist town. There is
S1: 3 or 4 months of the year where it is
S1: simply not feasible for them to work four days a week,
S1: even if. And I'd read somewhere recently about like somewhere
S1: in the States, maybe that was giving hospitality workers the
S1: option of working their five days of eight hour shifts
S1: or working four days of ten hour shifts. So, you know,
S1: that has always been something that I was curious about
S1: as an option for hospitality. But instead of doing that,
S1: this fish and chip shop owner, um. Made it known,
S1: I guess, that during peak season, his workers, his employees
S1: would work longer hours and in the off season they
S1: would work 32 hours a week as opposed to a
S1: higher workload. And then in the slow season, they would
S1: work 24 hours a week all for the same pay. Yeah.
S1: So there'd be periods where they would work very full
S1: time hours and then periods where they work part time
S1: hours for full time pay. And that seemed to work
S1: really well for them to the point where they're going
S1: to continue with the the equivalent of a four day workweek.
S4: It's so powerful.
S2: That it's such long term thinking and the the scarcity
S2: mindset of a of an employer. And if I put
S2: myself in the shoes of that owner of that fish
S2: and chip shop, it would be okay. So I'm I'm
S2: taking on these employees at any time they could leave.
S2: You know what? If they're leaving in the slow season
S2: when they're not, um, or they're just here for the
S2: slow season. Right. Sorry. They're just here for the slow
S2: season and they're getting paid full pay, not working a,
S2: you know, full day or full week. And and then
S2: when it comes and when it comes busier, they leave. Sure.
S2: Do you know what I mean?
S4: So invested all this fear based, fee based.
S2: And so that's that's just a whole psyche change. Yeah.
S1: And it's got to me it's about becoming human centered
S1: rather than profit centered. And I know I live in
S1: an idealist world in my own head. I understand that.
S1: And I'm so often frustrated by the fact that others don't,
S1: you know. And so for me, I always pass things
S1: through the lens of people first. And I know that
S1: that's not how the world works, but that's what we
S1: need to do if we want to embrace that. Uh,
S1: the abundance based mindset rather than the fear based mindset
S1: that you described. But that's not taking into account the
S1: wellbeing of employees. So maybe someone's like, Yeah, maybe I
S1: will come in for the flu season and work three
S1: months at part time and get paid full time. But
S1: at the end of those three months, perhaps they are
S1: so enamored with the fact that the employer. Writes their
S1: well-being so highly that they've realized they've become loyal to
S1: this person. Absolutely. You know, they've realized that actually I'm
S1: not going to get this sense, this level of investment
S1: in my well being anywhere else. So I'm going to stay,
S1: you know, and.
S2: The value that that would have is incredible. Yeah.
S1: Yeah, I think it's I think it's really interesting in
S1: case study.
S4: It is. Yeah. Thank you. Good. Yeah.
S1: I liked it because it wasn't the traditional white collar example.
S2: So what I'm going to try instead of the four
S2: day workweek is a six month on and then six
S2: month off.
S1: But there are people who do that too. What there
S1: are so people I mean, these are people and like
S1: someone who does the work I do could possibly do
S1: something like that. You know, writers, creators. Um. Creatives could
S1: potentially do that. Like you work intensively on a project,
S1: a book, a movie or whatever. And you put everything
S1: you have into it and then you go on sabbatical
S1: for six months.
S2: Oh, that's amazing.
S4: But there aren't there are.
S1: People who do it. They weren't.
S2: I couldn't do it. But it.
S4: Sounds amazing.
S1: No, you couldn't do it with the work that you do.
S1: I don't think most actually, I.
S2: Don't think I could even if I could, if you
S2: know what I mean. Yeah. Okay. Like six months being
S2: on for six months, not having any break, you know,
S2: just powering through. I think I get pretty sick.
S1: Yeah. And that. I don't know. All I know is
S1: that I had read that certain people do that and
S1: they seem to love it. So, you know.
S3: Yeah.
S1: And I mean, what's on right is on like 40
S1: hours a week is on 80 hours a week is
S1: on 120 hours a week. Yeah. Yeah. So the flip side, though,
S1: to the four day workweek and I think it's pretty
S1: obvious we are. Absolutely. In the camp of yes, four
S1: day work week for so many reasons. For people's well-being.
S4: Well enough to trial it. Yeah.
S1: Yes, sure. I mean. I am anyway, because. Anything that
S1: can lead to people being more well, people feeling more grounded,
S1: people having time and space and buffer and margin in
S1: their life to. Live differently. I'm awful. Yeah. You know.
S1: But also, as I said, I know that that's an idealists. Uh,
S1: view of the world. Nothing wrong with that.
S6: But I understand that, but.
S1: So the flip side of it is. The laziness implication.
S1: A lot of people will imply or assume that there
S1: is laziness attached to this desire to only want to
S1: work four days a week. I disagree completely. It's people
S1: wanting to find some measure of balance in their life.
S1: And I think that. If it was rolled out widely,
S1: we would discover that in fact people weren't being lazy.
S1: Productivity doesn't decrease people's happiness, people's wellbeing, people's mental and
S1: physical health, improve their relationships, improve communities, improve and look,
S1: look at the flow on effect. That's what I believe
S1: would happen. But you cannot. Have this conversation without someone
S1: piping up saying it's just young people being lazy. And you.
S2: Know what? That's the capitalist society we live in. And
S2: I don't want to get too deep into this this.
S2: But capitalism by definition, is productivity being as productive as
S2: possible and earning. A living based on that.
S4: Productivity, even.
S1: Even like my argument for that is they've shown that
S1: productivity increases on a four day week anyway like this.
S1: The trial has shown that it's like 25% increase. To me,
S1: that's not the point. But regardless that that takes that
S1: argument away.
S2: It does. And that's why and that's essentially while why
S2: it's been considered by so many companies.
S4: Right, because of.
S1: The bottom line.
S4: The productivity, not because.
S1: People are happier or healthier.
S4: That's a nice side effect.
S3: Oh, God.
S1: So depressing.
S2: But capitalism's capitalist theory is that. Yeah. We need to
S2: be productive. If we're not, that's then we're sitting idle
S2: and that's wastage. So that's why when we when when
S2: you sit there and do nothing, you're subconsciously thinking I
S2: should be doing something.
S4: Oh, it's.
S1: Been completely ingrained into us. 100%. Yeah. But also, I
S1: would I would posit that the fear is people who
S1: have time on their hands have time to think, and
S1: people who think people are people who start to think
S1: critically about the world we live in and perhaps we
S1: can do it differently. And perhaps.
S4: We.
S2: Go, we're going.
S4: Down a rabbit hole.
S1: No, I'm not going to go. But but honestly, I
S1: do believe that that is. I don't think there's any
S1: one puppet master pulling those strings. But I think that
S1: over time that has become the norm, is that people
S1: are far more likely to buy stuff, to buy into things, to,
S1: you know, become a cog in the marketing machine that
S1: is the world if we don't have time to stop
S1: and think. Yep. Truly. And that's why I think that
S1: slow living can be a genuinely world changing idea because
S1: it gives people the opportunity to stop and think and
S1: it is uncomfortable. The things that you stop and think
S1: about are uncomfortable. But. I. I truly believe that there
S1: is an element to this work, work, work, work mentality
S1: that is about. Air control sounds ridiculous, but it's about
S1: maximizing money.
S4: Yeah, it's about money. Yeah. Yeah.
S2: How funny. I'm just smirking because I'm thinking about my
S2: check in and how I'm. Now I've got a fitness tracker,
S2: and it's all about optimization and productivity.
S6: Is it, though, that's one side or is it about well-being?
S7: Oh, that's true.
S2: There's an argument for both.
S4: There is?
S1: Yeah. It depends how you use it.
S4: Yeah.
S1: If you're like, using it to hack, like, biohacking and
S1: and whatnot, then, you know, perhaps that's, that's.
S6: That's about.
S1: You know, reaching your optimum potential versus well being or,
S1: you know, um. Navigating life in a way that creates
S1: the least amount of stress. Yeah.
S2: Yeah. Anyway, so that's the four day workweek. This is
S2: going to be a recurring topic. I'm going to. I'm
S2: not going to spend a lot of time on it
S2: in future episodes, but I will provide an update on
S2: what it's looking like and how I'm managing expectations. And yeah.
S1: So just from you personally rather than the global. Exactly.
S4: Exactly.
S1: Can I ask you a question before we move on? Sure.
S1: One of the other arguments against the four day workweek
S1: is that people will use their day off to go
S1: and get another job. And that will in turn lead
S1: to either poorer performance in their main job the four
S1: day a week job or burnout. I can absolutely see
S1: how people would do that, because the cost of living
S1: crisis is very real and brutal and people are struggling
S1: to make ends meet. So I get that concern.
S2: People have got side hustles now and a five day
S2: work rate. Yeah.
S1: So that would just free them up to do their
S1: side hustle on another day.
S6: Yeah. Yeah, that's that's a good point.
S1: I hadn't really.
S6: Thought about that, but.
S1: I'd love to know what percentage of people do have
S1: some kind of side hustle.
S2: Yeah, that would be interesting, actually.
S3: Yeah.
S1: So I think. Okay, let's like, follow that argument through though,
S1: which is. Yes. Let's say people move to a four
S1: day workweek. They go and get another job to. Boost
S1: their bank account. Will that lead to burnout? Probably. But
S1: people are already burning out on five days anyway. So
S1: what do we do as a society? Like, how do we.
S1: Negate that need for people to feel like they or
S1: not just feel like they have to to have to
S1: go and get a second job to plug the gap.
S1: We raise wages. We look at things like universal basic income.
S1: You know, like this is where the opportunity for creativity
S1: and leadership really comes in. I'm not asking you to like,
S1: give your personal thoughts on it, but to me, it's
S1: just an interesting offshoot of the conversation. It's like, how
S1: human centered can we make the economy? And what would the.
S1: Flow on effects of that be.
S2: So the skeptics will will no doubt have that argument
S2: in their back pockets. When more organizations move to the
S2: four day workweek. Just as like hybrid work, the hybrid
S2: workforce and the skeptics around people working from home have
S2: come out and said it's not good for collaboration and
S2: it's not good for mental health. And like, do you
S2: know what I mean? Like, there's always going to be
S2: people that Sure.
S4: Of which they.
S1: I think that there is some merit to those arguments
S1: based on individual people, based on the work that they do,
S1: based on the organizations they work for. I'm not I'm
S1: not pooh poohing that at all. And I don't think
S1: that there is a one size fits all. Like just
S1: because I am a super introverted person who. Very happily
S1: works in my own company doesn't mean that that's going
S1: to suit everyone, you know. And I think that hybrid
S1: tends to be what is working for people like on
S1: the main. Yeah. Now as we move into whatever comes
S1: post lockdowns and um. Yeah.
S4: Sorry I interrupted you.
S2: So the question is, honey, what am I going to
S2: do with that one day that I don't want?
S4: I don't know. What are you going to do?
S2: Um, well, I think that's another discussion. Okay. Because.
S4: Yeah, you don't know yet.
S2: Well, no, I have. I kind of do know what
S2: I'm going to be doing. Okay. And it will be
S2: upskilling based on the work that I do and it
S2: becoming redundant in the next three years.
S1: Yeah. So this is another conversation.
S2: This is a this is another conversation which we will have. Yeah.
S2: But yeah, let's do it in another episode. Okay, let's
S2: get on to.
S8: Hobbies?
S1: Yes. So this part of the conversation was sort of
S1: prompted by an article that I read.
S6: And The Guardian.
S1: Maybe I'll link to it in the show notes.
S6: About the.
S1: Benefits of having hobbies that we are mediocre at.
S6: Like things that we suck at. And it was written
S6: by someone who has.
S1: Been surfing for 20 or 30 years and is still
S1: genuinely terrible at it, but loves it, loves it because
S1: they are genuinely terrible at it. And they had a
S1: perspective that I had not.
S6: Uh, really considered.
S1: Before, which was that if you want to, if your
S1: aim is to get better at something, a hobby, for example,
S1: then you open up. The prospect of failure. So trying
S1: to get better means that you can fail. So they're like,
S1: I don't want to try and get better because this
S1: is something I enjoy as it is just for the
S1: sheer love of it, trying to get better, getting lessons, whatever.
S1: Watching YouTube tutorials like that then changes my mindset away
S1: from one of enjoyment to one of improvement. And I
S1: had never considered that before. But I think that there's
S1: definitely an element of truth to it. The comments were
S1: so interesting because most people had this very capitalistic mentality
S1: of like, Why wouldn't you want to get better at it?
S1: Whereas this person was like, I don't because I don't
S1: want to. I just don't want I love.
S6: Sucking at it.
S1: Yeah, because it is enjoyable, because it is an exercise
S1: in movement or mindfulness or play or whatever it is
S1: not about.
S6: Getting better. What do you think about that?
S4: It's such a.
S2: Look. Five years ago, I would have been on the whole.
S2: Just give up now.
S4: Like, why?
S1: If I'm not going to be good, I'm not going
S1: to do it.
S4: Exactly.
S2: But. I really love embracing the beginner mindset. Being a beginner.
S2: In something. It's so cool.
S6: Okay. That is very different to how you used to be.
S4: Because.
S2: You don't get those first. Big, like baby steps again.
S2: Like when you when you do something new. Those those
S2: little baby steps, they're so enjoyable because they're so basic
S2: and they're so they're so hard. And it's funny, like
S2: how hard it is. And just embracing that beginner mindset
S2: is those and also when you're a beginner. You get
S2: better really, really quickly.
S6: I think that's the opposite to the point of the article.
S2: But it's inevitable, right?
S4: Like if you.
S6: Apparently not.
S2: Come on. If they've been surfing for 30 years. They
S2: they would have started by not being able to actually
S2: stand up on the surface.
S6: Okay, I get your point.
S2: They now would be able to stand up on the surfboard.
S1: I'm assuming.
S4: So I.
S2: Don't.
S4: So there's a big thing, isn't it? There's a big.
S2: Difference between laying on a board and surfing. Do you
S2: know what I mean? Yeah, the. Yeah. So I guess
S2: you're right. I'm still in that camp of. But.
S6: And you are like, I am.
S1: I am you and I learnt to ski.
S6: At the same.
S1: Time, right? We did it with no lessons. We took
S1: a chairlift to the top of a mountain, strapped skis
S1: to our feet and we're like, Let's get to the bottom.
S4: Because that's how we.
S2: Learnt to snowboard like 20, 20 years.
S4: Before.
S6: It's infuriating because you're like.
S1: Captain Competent.
S6: And you're like, It's fine. You just lean into it.
S6: You just use your edges. I'm like, What are you
S6: talking about?
S1: And it took me so long to get to the
S1: same point that you got to within the first day.
S1: So I think that you are just someone who. At
S1: least with physical, like hobbies, things like that. You have that.
S1: Natural capacity to learn on the fly to embody your
S1: lessons really quickly. I'm not.
S2: So maybe this question is for you then, because yeah,
S2: I took that whole article and the whole theme and
S2: embracing the beginner mindset because I love Yeah, I love
S2: that feeling of learning something new because you do make
S2: huge strides very quickly, or I do.
S1: Do you then get bored.
S6: With something like once you've.
S1: Gotten beyond the beginner mindset and you're at like an intermediate.
S2: So the gains, the gains and advantages slow down? Yeah.
S4: Do you then.
S1: Get bored and give up?
S2: Well then it will come down to how much I
S2: really want to do something right. Is, you know, am I.
S2: Am I benefiting from it? Is it fun?
S4: Right, Right.
S2: Yeah. Which kind of taps into the themes of that article.
S2: They're doing it because they just love it, right? Like,
S2: they just. It's pure. Like, just. Enjoyment. Okay. So my
S2: question for you then is. Talk about. Pottery as an
S2: example of a hobby that you've started. Later in the
S2: next couple of years.
S4: What's that been like?
S1: It's been really interesting, actually. And this is what I wanted.
S1: This is why I wanted to touch on this topic,
S1: because I wrote about it a couple of weeks ago
S1: and got some really interesting responses. So I started pottery.
S1: I don't know. You bought me like a class pass
S1: Class Promise 2021.
S4: Yeah, right. Okay.
S1: And I went for three months, absolutely loved it and
S1: fell in love with it.
S6: Immediately and within. I'm going to say 3 or 4 weeks.
S1: I was coming.
S6: Home.
S1: And saying things to you.
S6: Like.
S1: I'd like I'd love to start my own little pottery studio.
S2: And start selling some. Yeah, I.
S6: Mean, I could barely throw like, anything at this point.
S2: You had a store somewhere, like.
S4: You know, like. Yeah.
S6: And this is a pattern.
S1: That I have followed over and over and over. It
S1: is literally how I ended up with an accidental jewelry
S1: label that lasted me six years. I enjoyed making jewelry,
S1: and suddenly people are like.
S6: You should, you should sell these at markets.
S1: I'm like, Yeah, should. And it gave a reason or
S1: a purpose to what was previously a hobby. And that's
S1: where I landed with pottery as well. I'm like, Well,
S1: if I'm going to be spending this time and money
S1: doing this thing, it should pay its own way. And
S1: I've since walked that back because I realized that I
S1: stopped enjoying it as much when I started to think
S1: about what it would look like to have a creative
S1: side hustle like that. Um, and it's, it's not the
S1: reason I was doing it, the reason I wanted to
S1: do it and the reason I actually really enjoyed it
S1: is because it is a, it's a sensory creative experience.
S1: And when I'm at the pottery studio.
S6: I don't think about anything else. I just make and
S6: it's delightful.
S1: And even if I have.
S6: To drag myself there.
S1: Really don't want to go. Other stuff that I should
S1: be doing every time I go and sit down. I'm
S1: grateful and I'm so glad that I showed up. So
S1: I shared a quote over on the tortoise a couple
S1: of weeks ago from Tricia Hersey, who is the founder
S1: of the NAP Ministry. And people had some thoughts on it.
S6: Okay.
S1: Yeah. So her quote is being booked and busy is
S1: not a flex to me. Being relaxed and aligned and
S1: living in leisure with hobbies you don't monetize is a
S1: flex to me. You'll be proud of overworking and constant labor.
S1: It makes no sense.
S6: And I get why people were.
S1: Rattled by that, because it really does challenge our.
S6: Mentality. And the one.
S1: That I have carried around with me for a very
S1: long time of this needs to make monetary sense. So
S1: that was I think it ruffled some feathers because and
S1: I don't necessarily say that I agree with that in
S1: like a black and white sense, I think that there's
S1: going to be a whole spectrum of.
S6: People's experience.
S1: Around hobbies. And sometimes people do take up a hobby
S1: and they realize that they could genuinely make it a
S1: side hustle or their work.
S6: That's how I became a.
S1: Writer by doing that. That's true. You know, it was
S1: a hobby for a very, very long time before I
S1: ever earned a cent from it. So I have no
S1: issue with monetizing our hobbies. But I think it's just
S1: interesting that that is. Almost always my go to first
S1: and I have to walk myself back from it.
S6: So yeah, I think that the idea of having.
S1: Hobbies that are simply for enjoyment sake.
S6: Is something that.
S1: I'm going to keep.
S6: Exploring.
S3: What are your hobbies?
S2: My hobbies are, I guess is fitness or hobby? No,
S2: that's a that's a, I guess a a category onto itself,
S2: isn't it?
S4: Yeah.
S1: I mean, is a hobby something that you do without purpose?
S4: Like it's almost like.
S2: Saying is meditation or.
S4: Hobby. I don't know.
S1: That has purpose to everything, has purpose or if you
S1: want it to. Yeah, I mean you.
S2: I don't have a traditional hobby, I will say that.
S1: So you're learning Japanese?
S4: Yeah.
S1: Would you classify that as a hobby?
S4: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know either.
S2: Because I do want to be a translator.
S6: By the time you're 80. That's what you're up skilling for?
S3: Exactly. Yeah.
S1: So, okay, you learn Japanese and there is obviously a
S1: purpose to that, which is to be able to speak Japanese. But,
S1: you know, are you doing it because you enjoy it
S1: for the process or are you doing it because of
S1: the outcome?
S2: I'm doing it to. Improve my mental. Physical mental.
S4: Power. Okay. Okay. So it's a brain.
S2: A brain power type. Thing is. Yeah, that's basically what
S2: I'm doing it. And next time I go to Japan,
S2: I'd like to be able to converse.
S3: Sure. That's a cool.
S6: Yeah, cool kind of goal.
S1: You play golf? Would you say golf as a hobby?
S2: It's not a sport, that's for sure.
S3: Oh.
S1: Well, then his chest was bought.
S2: Yeah. So I think I have a lot in saying
S2: I don't have traditional hobbies. I have a lot of
S2: things that I like to do that are either leisure,
S2: leisure based.
S6: You're describing hobbies.
S1: You surf.
S4: Okay, Surfing.
S1: We stand up, paddle board.
S2: You know, fitness, CrossFit type, exercising, um, video games. Reading. Reading.
S4: Yeah. Playing guitar. Playing guitar. Yeah.
S1: You don't have any hobbies?
S2: Okay, but I kind of. I don't have like a
S2: hobby that I would hang my head on. Of all
S2: those things, like what am I like? What's my main hobby?
S2: I don't think I could tell. You know, I don't
S2: think I'd have one.
S6: You're multi potential, right?
S2: Yeah. I would love to have a hobby. And I.
S2: I envy the people that have their one hobby that
S2: they are just. It's almost all consuming.
S3: But then that.
S4: Goes like back to like.
S2: A train. A toy train. Yeah. Okay.
S1: Model the Walt Disney Neil Young type.
S4: Yeah. Yeah.
S2: I would never do that. That does not interest me,
S2: but the equivalent.
S4: Right. Okay.
S1: When you said train, I thought of that guy who
S1: is like, huge on TikTok and YouTube, you know, the
S1: guy who wears the head mounted.
S6: And he's forget his.
S1: Name, but he's obsessed with.
S6: He's just so joyful.
S2: The passion. That's what I want. I want that passion. Right.
S6: So then going back to the article that like led
S6: us into this part of the.
S1: That's almost the opposite of that. So this person, the surfer,
S1: is like, I do it, you know, Saturday morning and
S1: it is. It is this window of time where I
S1: happily suck and then I move on with my life
S1: and it's like it's enjoyable for what it is, but
S1: it is not all consuming. It is not like my
S1: great passion. Yeah, I'm not saying there's like, right or wrong.
S1: I just think it's really interesting that.
S6: We can.
S1: Create space in our lives for hobbies and they can
S1: take up vastly different amounts of emotional space. That's so.
S2: True. Yeah.
S6: Yeah. And I go through periods.
S1: I think, where I have almost an obsession with certain hobbies.
S1: And then there's other ones that I just slip in
S1: and out of because they are literally enjoyable. And so
S1: I pop in and I enjoy them and then I
S1: pop out. Mm.
S4: Hobbes. Hobbes.
S2: Man, they're.
S7: Weird.
S1: I would love to know people listening. What your hobbies
S1: are because.
S6: People have really cool hobbies.
S4: Oh so.
S2: Cool. I get hobby envy.
S3: That's interesting.
S2: Why I surface level hobby.
S6: But that's okay.
S2: I don't want to be like that surfer.
S6: Why you're having a really hard time with that. Why?
S7: Because I don't like it. Sucks to suck.
S6: I think it's enjoyable to suck.
S7: This is me saying at the beginning of this conversation.
S2: Being a beginner is so joyful.
S3: I don't think you.
S6: Believed that.
S1: Even when you said.
S3: It.
S2: I'm gonna have to take that one day just to
S2: do some self.
S7: Self analysis.
S4: Yeah.
S3: Okay.
S6: Yeah. So let us know what your hobbies are.
S1: So when I say, let us know that we have
S1: a new home, by the way, on the Internet. If you.
S1: So I'm writing on Substack. I'm writing a weekly newsletter
S1: called The Tortoise.
S6: Funnily.
S1: Enough, over on Substack. And that's where you're going to
S1: find Shownotes for episodes moving forward. So there will be
S1: a link in the app or whatever app you're listening
S1: to this on. There'll be a link there that will
S1: take you over to the tortoise on Substack. But it's
S1: Brooke McAlary. Substack. Com is the name and. You can
S1: just search for the episode number for each episode of
S1: The Tortoise moving forward and you'll find all the show notes.
S1: So obviously today's episode one, any links that we any papers,
S1: any articles that we talk about will link to there?
S1: But while you're there, let us know what your hobbies
S1: are because Ben needs some new ones.
S3: Thank you. Yes.
S6: So final segment. I know you love the idea.
S1: Of segments.
S6: Is a brief check.
S1: In. So this is where we will talk about typically
S1: about your.
S3: Uh.
S1: Movements towards a four day workweek.
S4: Okay. Yep.
S2: So this is the regular check in part. Yeah.
S3: Okay.
S1: But we're not going to do that because.
S6: We've already done that today.
S1: And you're now going to ask me.
S6: About my.
S4: My running.
S2: Like a well oiled machine. So one so beginning of
S2: the year, four day work week for me. One percenters
S2: for you. Has the 1%. Movement going.
S6: Movement.
S1: It's going you know what? It's been a phenomenal. It's
S1: had a phenomenal impact on.
S6: The way I spend my time.
S1: So I'm not going to kind of rehash it all here.
S1: We spoke about it a little bit on the last
S1: couple of episodes of the Slow Home podcast. So if
S1: you haven't listened to those, you can just go back
S1: a couple of episodes. Same feed in the same feed.
S4: Same feed.
S1: Take a listen to those. But I also wrote quite
S1: a lengthy post about it.
S6: On The.
S1: Tortoise that you can go and read. But essentially.
S6: It's.
S1: Using the idea of 1% as a tool. So either 1%
S1: of our day being 15 minutes roughly of our day,
S1: what can I do for 15 minutes that will be
S1: values aligned that will make me feel better, that will
S1: move me a step closer towards, you know, a goal
S1: or something that I'm working towards. That's one way of
S1: using it. The other way of using the 1% is
S1: what is something that I can do that will improve
S1: or change or grow. An area of my life by 1%,
S1: you know, and that can be something tiny, that can be, um,
S1: you know, making that small extra effort in whatever area
S1: it is in life, a relationship, work, creativity, play health,
S1: and just embracing the idea of continuous, gradual, slow and
S1: steady improvement.
S6: So that's it in a nutshell. You can hear Joey
S6: snoring behind me, and it's been phenomenal. So I.
S1: Every morning when I wake up.
S6: I.
S1: Write in a log book. It's something that Austin Kleon
S1: writes about and I have copied. And essentially I go
S1: over the day before and I look at the day before.
S6: I know what he's really going for it. I look
S6: at the day before.
S1: And I think about what 1% I have attempted or
S1: I have managed, you know, and it might be something like.
S6: Stretching in the morning.
S1: To me, that's a 1% improvement in the way that
S1: I feel during the day.
S6: Physically, it can.
S1: Be journaling, It can be taking the extra time to
S1: sit with the.
S6: Kids when.
S1: They go to bed. It can be taking the dogs
S1: for a walk. It can be literally 15 minutes spent exercising.
S1: It can be 15 minutes spent weeding the garden. And
S1: I just make a note of all of those things.
S1: And two things have happened. I think I'm looking for
S1: more opportunities to make those tiny shifts that make no.
S6: Material.
S1: Difference to my output, but make a huge difference over
S1: the course of a week or a month or a year.
S6: Absolutely.
S1: So I'm looking for opportunities to do it. But I'm
S1: also seeing that I've been doing lots of 1%.
S6: Anyway anyway.
S1: And that is empowering. Yeah, that's going okay. I know
S1: what's important to me and.
S6: I'm already.
S1: Living like it. That feels really.
S6: Great.
S1: Yeah. So I.
S6: Try every.
S1: Month to have a different.
S6: Focus.
S1: Just to see, you know, what I can do with
S1: this 1%. And this month I've been focusing on getting
S1: back to writing my middle grade kids novel.
S6: And it has been unbelievable the.
S1: Difference that the 1% has made. So for the first
S1: couple of weeks of the month, I spent 15 minutes
S1: after writing my log book in the morning, just working
S1: through my old drafts, just looking at them, making notes, um,
S1: noting down anything, you know, structural story stuff that needs
S1: to happen. And then for the second half of the month,
S1: I'm now able to outline. The entire book is really.
S3: Hard to concentrate with you snoring like that.
S7: Unedited.
S6: Yep, very candid. This is life. So, yeah, and.
S1: Spending that 15 minutes a day has allowed me to
S1: now sit down and do more intensive work of outlining.
S1: So it's more like 1%, but for a week. So
S1: I'll sit down for maybe two hours on a Saturday
S1: or a Sunday and work on it. And I'm at
S1: the point now where I've started a brand new draft
S1: and have a complete outline for the entire book, which
S1: I've never had before.
S6: Incredible. And that's all from just to the 1%.
S4: Yeah.
S6: So I knew theoretically that.
S1: 1% a day would make a difference. And it adds
S1: up to way more than just the effort of a
S1: singular day. It becomes very quickly, far greater than the
S1: sum of its parts.
S6: I knew that.
S1: But seeing it in a very real sense has been
S1: so cool. So, yes, it is going well. The 1%
S1: is going well. And I think what I'll end up finding.
S6: A need for is tilting. Yeah.
S1: You know, because.
S6: You add add.
S1: 15 1% to your day and all of a sudden.
S6: Your days just 15% Fuller Yeah. You know. Yeah.
S1: That's not what this is about. It's not about. Exponential growth.
S1: It's just about a slow, steady commitment to.
S3: A thing.
S1: And in.
S9: That.
S1: In that capacity. It's been really genuinely powerful.
S6: And.
S2: It's amazing. Some may argue that the 1% is basically
S2: a productivity tool.
S6: And you can argue that that's fine.
S1: I think it depends how what lens you look at
S1: it through. But there is absolutely endless research that shows
S1: that deep, concerted effort over short periods of time is
S1: often far more productive.
S4: I would believe that.
S6: Then spending an eight hours a day, you know, half doing.
S4: Things well, my.
S2: Japanese lessons are that's my 1% at the moment is
S2: all around just doing 15 minutes a day. And. Anymore
S2: and you become so firstly so fatigued with it. Right?
S2: And because it's new information, too. So it's sort of
S2: like it's pretty intensive like what you're learning. But I
S2: enjoy it now. Like, I look forward to that 15
S2: minutes of of learning Japanese. I'm using Duolingo. I know
S2: there's a number of apps out there, but that's the
S2: one I'm using and I'm just having a lot of
S2: fun with it. Yeah. I'd previously studied it at school,
S2: so I came to it with quite a bit of
S2: base knowledge. Yeah. And just. I look forward to in
S2: 12 months, seeing.
S6: Where you're at with where I'm at? Absolutely. Yeah.
S1: And I think that would be a fantastic measure of
S1: the benefits of the 1% of the 1%.
S7: Yeah.
S6: So put a note in your diary. We're coming back.
S3: Yeah.
S1: You know, beginning of next year to see how your
S1: Japanese is.
S3: Hey.
S6: Very good. So I think that's that's sort of it
S6: for our first episode of The Tortoise. If you haven't.
S1: Yet subscribed, if you found your way here on a
S1: podcast app. Uh, make sure you hit subscribe. This is
S1: the same feed as the Slow Home podcast. So if
S1: you were a previous subscriber and you've noticed us pop
S1: up and you're like, What the heck is this? We've
S1: renamed the feed so that you won't have lost access
S1: to our 350 past episodes. So you can go back
S1: and take a listen to those. And if you haven't
S1: yet signed up to receive the tortoise letters, they go
S1: out every Friday at this point, Australia time.
S6: And you head over to Substack.
S1: And add your name to those. There is also an
S1: option to become a paid subscriber and for that you
S1: it's $5 a month or $50 a year. You also
S1: get access to workshops that will.
S6: Run roughly every.
S1: Quarter. So 3 or 4 a year. I've just wrapped
S1: up the first workshop, which went for three weeks and
S1: it was all about values, how to identify your values
S1: and then how to use them to help you make decisions.
S1: So if that's something that you're interested in, you can
S1: sign up for $5 for the.
S6: Month, get access to that straight.
S1: Away. But otherwise, for the Friday letters, it.
S6: Is completely free. And I would love you to come
S6: over there and join us. We've got a really beautiful community.
S1: That's that's starting to spring up around our conversations.
S6: We have a chat every Friday afternoon. Yeah. So come
S6: and join us please. Brookman gallery.substack.com.
S2: What's the collective noun for a group of tortoises? Oh,
S2: I don't know. That'd be funny. Call that community.
S6: I think we looked at that at some point, and
S6: it wasn't great. I don't know what it was.
S1: We could call it a plod.
S6: A plot of tortoises.
S2: A plot of tortoises. Love it. Just a quick favor,
S2: if you like. We're not sure about the discoverability of
S2: the show as we've changed from Slow Your Home to
S2: the tortoise. What really helps with that is if you
S2: leave a rating and or a review on. Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
S2: or your favorite podcast platform. That just means that we're
S2: more likely to be searched and people find us through
S2: those apps if you if we have some current ratings
S2: and reviews. So it would be great if you've got
S2: the time to leave us a quick rating and review, please.
S6: Until next time. And at this point, we're hitting monthly episodes.
S1: It's part of our commitment to slow and steady this year.
S6: That feels doable.
S1: So we will be back with you the third Thursday
S1: of April.
S6: Until then, take good care.