WEBVTT - Mental Load: Episode 4 0:00:02.220 --> 0:00:09.800 This is the Tortoise, the podcast that digs deep. Into 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:14.000 the possibilities of Slo. My name is Brooke McAlary. I'm 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.850 your host, and I'm joined by Ben McAlary. 0:00:17.570 --> 0:00:18.200 Gidday. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.620 How are you? Very well. How are you? 0:00:24.310 --> 0:00:27.010 I'm good. Yeah? Yeah, I'm good. I feel cozy. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:28.750 Well, it's really cozy in here. 0:00:28.870 --> 0:00:32.080 It's rainy outside like it's a dreary winter's day. We've 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:36.159 got the fire on. I've got some tea sitting, sitting 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:41.110 fireside in my armchair. Got nice little new microphone set up, 0:00:41.110 --> 0:00:42.519 so hopefully the sounds a bit better. 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:45.550 I know, I know. Apologies for the sound people. They're 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.930 just some feedback that we've got. It's too quiet, so 0:00:50.229 --> 0:00:54.760 I'm working on improving that. And it's a delicate balance 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:57.970 between two quiet and an unedited version, which we're trying 0:00:57.970 --> 0:01:01.600 to go for, right? We're trying to be more like unedited. 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.790 Well, we basically are. Unless one of us, like sneezes 0:01:03.790 --> 0:01:07.869 or coughs into the microphone. Sure. If you do that, 0:01:07.870 --> 0:01:08.410 there's something. 0:01:08.830 --> 0:01:09.220 Really. 0:01:09.220 --> 0:01:13.090 Wrong, something going wrong. But. So I feel good. How 0:01:13.090 --> 0:01:13.660 about you? Yeah. 0:01:13.690 --> 0:01:16.810 Good. I'm likewise enjoying a nice cuppa. 0:01:16.900 --> 0:01:17.920 A nice little cuppa. 0:01:18.730 --> 0:01:21.640 I'm looking out into a Yeah, a very wet and 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:24.399 windy day. And so there's no better place to be 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:28.870 then having a chat with you about mental load. 0:01:29.050 --> 0:01:34.050 The mental load? Yes. It's a. A topic that has 0:01:34.050 --> 0:01:37.020 been recurrent in conversations in this House. I feel like 0:01:37.020 --> 0:01:42.320 this year, you know. What we mean by the mental load, 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:45.110 who is bearing it, why and how and what that 0:01:45.110 --> 0:01:47.900 looks and feels like. But also just more broadly, I 0:01:47.900 --> 0:01:53.920 feel like. The conversation around burnout, particularly in women. In 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.370 a lot of articles that I'm reading, conversations that I'm 0:01:57.370 --> 0:02:01.720 listening to, podcasts that I'm listening to, everyone is just 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:07.420 so tired and. This felt like the right time to 0:02:07.420 --> 0:02:08.440 have this conversation. 0:02:08.710 --> 0:02:10.630 To be honest with you, I didn't even know what 0:02:10.630 --> 0:02:14.919 mental load was in the context that we're talking about. Okay. 0:02:15.070 --> 0:02:20.740 Like very naive about mental load and it existing. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:27.720 Did I introduce you to that? 0:02:27.740 --> 0:02:28.320 You did. 0:02:28.340 --> 0:02:28.940 I'm sorry. 0:02:28.940 --> 0:02:29.510 You did. 0:02:29.540 --> 0:02:31.510 If it stressed you out, I'm sorry. No, no, no. 0:02:31.790 --> 0:02:34.609 It opened my eyes, I think, a little bit to 0:02:34.610 --> 0:02:37.730 what is mental load and probably highlights a lot of 0:02:37.730 --> 0:02:42.530 the stereotypes that will probably talk about in this discussion. 0:02:42.830 --> 0:02:48.910 But yeah, I'm coming in at. Yeah, very. Naive. Okay. 0:02:49.450 --> 0:02:49.900 Well, that's. 0:02:49.900 --> 0:02:51.430 It. I think that's not a bad place to have 0:02:51.430 --> 0:02:54.310 the conversation from because it means that you're not coming 0:02:54.310 --> 0:02:58.149 into it with your mental weapon chair. And neither am I. Exactly. 0:02:58.180 --> 0:02:59.360 That's good. Exactly. 0:02:59.410 --> 0:03:08.250 All right. Let's let's just jump in. So when I 0:03:08.250 --> 0:03:11.280 first said mental load to you in the context of 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.670 that conversation, whenever that was, what did you picture like? 0:03:14.669 --> 0:03:15.980 What did you think I was saying? 0:03:15.990 --> 0:03:20.550 Yeah, first of all, I thought you were saying. And 0:03:20.550 --> 0:03:28.160 it explicitly relating to domestic non-paid work. 0:03:28.169 --> 0:03:28.880 Okay. 0:03:28.889 --> 0:03:33.120 That's immediately what I went to. Right. So cleaning bathrooms, 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:37.910 cleaning kitchen, vacuuming, cleaning, you know, washing sheets on bit 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:46.290 like all the. Normal domestic activities, plus one off domestic 0:03:46.290 --> 0:03:49.380 things that just have to happen around the house. You know, 0:03:49.380 --> 0:03:54.120 it could be paying bills and, you know, talking to 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:56.430 a tradesman about something, you know, like all that sort 0:03:56.430 --> 0:03:59.520 of stuff. So that's immediately what I thought. 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.760 And I think that's certainly part of it. But for me, 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.680 and I think a more broadly accepted kind of definition 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.740 of mental load is it takes into account all of 0:04:10.740 --> 0:04:15.869 that stuff, but it's the invisible. Uh, cognitive labor. So 0:04:15.870 --> 0:04:19.590 it's not even the doing necessarily of it. It's the thinking. 0:04:19.589 --> 0:04:20.430 About thinking about. 0:04:20.430 --> 0:04:21.029 It that needs. 0:04:21.300 --> 0:04:24.330 That it needs to be done and the planning for it. 0:04:24.330 --> 0:04:28.049 And the for me, it's also the work that I 0:04:28.050 --> 0:04:31.380 do on myself that allows me to plan for things 0:04:31.380 --> 0:04:34.050 and to be aware of things that need to be 0:04:34.050 --> 0:04:38.250 done and to be present for things like it goes deep. I, 0:04:38.250 --> 0:04:40.650 I would include all of the stuff that I do 0:04:40.650 --> 0:04:44.160 to help me become a better listener, a better parent, 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:48.270 a better, you know, human being. I would include all 0:04:48.270 --> 0:04:50.910 of that in it, too, because I do that, not 0:04:50.910 --> 0:04:54.720 because Instagram tells me that I should, but because all 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.880 of those things help. To create the kind of life that, 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:01.910 you know, we want to live. And it. I'm not 0:05:01.910 --> 0:05:05.360 saying I begrudge it at all. That part of it anyway. 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:08.750 I think it's important and valid and valuable, but it 0:05:08.750 --> 0:05:13.310 is it all adds up to that invisible cognitive labor. 0:05:14.980 --> 0:05:17.640 If that. Do you understand what I'm like? The difference? 0:05:17.650 --> 0:05:18.940 I do. I do. 0:05:18.940 --> 0:05:19.510 I think I. 0:05:19.510 --> 0:05:21.190 Do. What? 0:05:21.490 --> 0:05:25.570 So quick question. And it's going it's me as a. 0:05:26.589 --> 0:05:30.340 Male wanting to go to solution mode straight away. Do 0:05:30.339 --> 0:05:32.650 you have to have mental load? Why can't everything just 0:05:32.650 --> 0:05:35.830 be you think about it and you just either. 0:05:37.830 --> 0:05:39.599 Go on. I'm really interested in this. 0:05:41.220 --> 0:05:43.450 Do it or delegate it. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.349 Dee Dee, why can't you just go? Okay, when it 0:05:46.350 --> 0:05:50.419 first comes in your head instead of. Having a load. 0:05:51.089 --> 0:05:54.239 Why can't it just be an output? Why can't it 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:58.290 just be like, that's what we're going to do? Or Ben. 0:05:58.320 --> 0:05:59.790 You go and do that or like. 0:06:01.710 --> 0:06:03.089 Do you think that would work? 0:06:05.089 --> 0:06:08.330 As part of the whip process? I think it probably could. 0:06:08.990 --> 0:06:12.920 Do you okay, that's fine. That's fine. I appreciate that. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:15.980 You and I have very different ways of looking at 0:06:15.980 --> 0:06:20.089 the world like you're a solutions person, 100% you to 0:06:20.089 --> 0:06:22.910 a fault. Sometimes it's like, let's talk about something, Let's 0:06:22.910 --> 0:06:26.029 fix it. Whereas maybe that's not what the conversation was 0:06:26.029 --> 0:06:28.880 about fixing it, but that's your default and that makes 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.480 you really excellent at doing certain things because you're a fixer, 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:35.090 you're a solutions person, you're a just get in and 0:06:35.089 --> 0:06:37.160 do what kind of person. I don't think that is 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:41.960 applicable to a lot of the stuff that applies with 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:44.990 mental load, with parenting, for example, because so much of 0:06:44.990 --> 0:06:48.230 it is you're thinking through the stage that the kids 0:06:48.230 --> 0:06:52.909 are at and you're worrying. Yes. But you're also, you know, 0:06:52.910 --> 0:06:57.110 trying to come to terms with changes and challenges and 0:06:57.110 --> 0:06:59.900 strengths and weaknesses that everyone in the family has. And 0:06:59.900 --> 0:07:02.690 you can't do anything with that. Right. That's not something 0:07:02.690 --> 0:07:05.720 that can be done with. It's something that forms the 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.470 foundation on which you make decisions later because you have 0:07:09.470 --> 0:07:12.470 an understanding or you have a point of view that 0:07:12.470 --> 0:07:15.110 you have worked hard to establish. You can't that's not 0:07:15.110 --> 0:07:17.090 a that's not a doing thing. 0:07:17.810 --> 0:07:21.620 Again, I'm trying to distance my predisposition of thinking about 0:07:21.620 --> 0:07:24.110 it as domestic load. Can you give me an example 0:07:24.110 --> 0:07:28.280 of something that is not the domestic part of it? Sure. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.170 Yeah, because it applies to lots of things. I mean, 0:07:30.170 --> 0:07:33.920 mental load applies to work. It applies to relationships, not just, 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:38.180 you know, romantic or familial relationships, all kind of relationships, 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.420 you know, community stuff and then household stuff and all 0:07:41.420 --> 0:07:45.890 of that. So workplace, I was reading an article and 0:07:45.890 --> 0:07:47.840 they gave this example. I thought it was a good one. 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:52.130 You've been asked by your boss to organize a birthday 0:07:52.130 --> 0:07:55.780 party for a colleague who was also a friend. You. 0:07:55.780 --> 0:07:57.970 It's not part of your job description. You're not going 0:07:57.970 --> 0:08:01.110 to get paid extra for it. But your colleague there, 0:08:01.150 --> 0:08:03.489 your friend and you can output you want to be 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:06.400 able to celebrate your friend. Someone has to do it. 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:08.980 So you're going to do it. You think about everything 0:08:08.980 --> 0:08:12.640 that involved, that is involved in that, starting at picking 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.730 a date, making sure everyone's available for that date, and 0:08:15.730 --> 0:08:20.860 then looking at food, you know, dietary requirements of everyone 0:08:20.860 --> 0:08:22.900 making sure that you're across all of that, then you're 0:08:22.900 --> 0:08:25.720 looking at menu, then you're looking at buying them a gift. 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:28.690 Then you're looking at giving them a speech because you 0:08:28.690 --> 0:08:30.610 want to make sure that they are celebrated because you 0:08:30.610 --> 0:08:35.380 value them. All of that is invisible. No one sees 0:08:35.380 --> 0:08:38.830 anything other than maybe the email asking about dietary requirements 0:08:38.830 --> 0:08:43.030 and dates. And meanwhile, you've given hours of your time 0:08:43.030 --> 0:08:47.199 and your energy to this thing. And that's. I'm not 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:49.030 saying that it's a bad thing to organize a birthday 0:08:49.030 --> 0:08:52.480 party for a friend, but it's invisible mental load and 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:57.040 it takes up space that is then taken up. Not 0:08:57.040 --> 0:09:00.010 by your work, not by your family stuff, not by 0:09:00.010 --> 0:09:03.640 household stuff, not by anything else. It's taking up space, 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.150 you know? And I think that. The resentment side of 0:09:07.150 --> 0:09:10.179 it comes in when it's sort of like we're just 0:09:10.450 --> 0:09:15.370 expected to continue to expand ourselves. And I'm speaking generally 0:09:15.370 --> 0:09:19.439 here when I say ourselves. We just things just keep 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.870 getting added in and slotted in and slotted in and 0:09:21.870 --> 0:09:26.370 like we can't go beyond capacity. So we start to 0:09:26.370 --> 0:09:28.410 feel stretched and we start to feel angry and we 0:09:28.410 --> 0:09:31.680 start to feel resentful. And I think the resentment side 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.690 of it comes in when it is because it is 0:09:33.690 --> 0:09:37.709 invisible and it is undervalued, all of that kind of 0:09:38.190 --> 0:09:42.810 cognitive load. Does that. Yeah. So seeing that, can you 0:09:42.809 --> 0:09:45.540 see what I what the difference is? 0:09:45.540 --> 0:09:46.140 A little bit. 0:09:46.620 --> 0:09:48.060 A little bit? Yeah. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:51.540 So thinking about, okay, I know you don't want to 0:09:51.540 --> 0:09:56.940 just think about it domestically, but it's for me. Another 0:09:56.940 --> 0:10:01.620 example would be all of the tiny tasks that have 0:10:01.620 --> 0:10:05.730 to happen around the house that quite literally, no one 0:10:05.730 --> 0:10:06.660 else would think about. 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:08.340 Let's talk about those tasks. 0:10:09.330 --> 0:10:10.230 Those tiny tasks. 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:10.710 Okay? 0:10:13.530 --> 0:10:17.580 Have you ever thought about having to clean the side 0:10:17.580 --> 0:10:21.579 of the. Kick boards in the kitchen. 0:10:22.809 --> 0:10:32.020 No, but definitely the. Drawer drawers and cupboards. 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:33.459 Okay, so you've thought about it. 0:10:33.820 --> 0:10:34.870 And have done it on. 0:10:34.870 --> 0:10:36.099 Occasion. Okay. 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:47.020 Cleaning of windows, airing of linens, seasonally washing curtains, all 0:10:47.020 --> 0:10:50.320 of that kind of stuff. That and this. Before we 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.030 go on any further, I don't want it to sound 0:10:52.030 --> 0:10:53.920 like I am making a list of things that I 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:56.260 do and you don't, but I'm trying to paint a 0:10:56.260 --> 0:10:59.610 picture of the fact that this stuff takes up head space, right? 0:10:59.620 --> 0:11:03.550 Like the kids wardrobes. First weekend of every school holidays, 0:11:03.550 --> 0:11:05.530 I go through their wardrobes and make sure their clothes 0:11:05.530 --> 0:11:07.930 still fit them. I find out what else they need. 0:11:07.929 --> 0:11:10.150 We make sure we go do the shopping so that 0:11:10.150 --> 0:11:12.010 they've got shoes that fit and they've got pants that 0:11:12.010 --> 0:11:14.560 don't don't come up to their cars like that kind 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:19.120 of stuff. It takes up space, you know? And in 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:23.380 our relationship, you work far more than I do in 0:11:23.380 --> 0:11:26.439 terms of paid work. Your hours are far longer and 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:28.990 you're paid far, far better than I ever have been. 0:11:28.990 --> 0:11:34.110 So it is what it is, Right? But it's. It's relentless. 0:11:34.900 --> 0:11:38.710 And I think it's invisible and it's undervalued just in general. 0:11:40.940 --> 0:11:43.339 And again, this is not like a we're talking. 0:11:43.490 --> 0:11:49.400 We're also we're hetero couple. We have no idea whether 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.040 this is even like a gender. Is it a gender thing. 0:11:52.340 --> 0:11:52.940 I think. 0:11:53.450 --> 0:11:53.900 Or is it. 0:11:53.900 --> 0:11:57.949 Based on like paid employment? Everything runs off that. 0:11:57.950 --> 0:11:59.510 Yeah, I don't I don't know. All I know is 0:11:59.510 --> 0:12:03.680 that there have been studies done recently that show that 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:09.920 in hetero relationships women are typically doing two plus hours 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:16.340 a day more domestic. Regardless of their work, their paid 0:12:16.340 --> 0:12:20.030 work load and the mental load is more on top 0:12:20.030 --> 0:12:23.570 of that. Again, that's in hetero relationship. So I think 0:12:23.570 --> 0:12:27.980 that there is a gender role there and I think 0:12:27.980 --> 0:12:32.300 it's absorbed from how we're brought up. It's absorbed through 0:12:32.300 --> 0:12:37.069 societal messages. I found a quote on line and I 0:12:37.070 --> 0:12:38.840 don't know who said it because it's one of those 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:41.360 ones that does the rounds of like Instagram and stuff 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:45.070 over time and you can never tell who's actually. Said 0:12:45.070 --> 0:12:45.730 it first. 0:12:45.730 --> 0:12:46.090 Yeah. 0:12:46.510 --> 0:12:49.929 But it kind of resonated with me. So there is 0:12:49.929 --> 0:12:53.320 an entire generation of women who are drowning because they 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:57.160 were raised with traditional gender roles while being empowered to 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.610 be independent. These women still take on the majority of 0:13:00.610 --> 0:13:04.240 House duties while killing it in the workplace, and they're tired. 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.510 It's like, that's sandwich generation, right? 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.200 Yeah. Going back to last episode. 0:13:10.220 --> 0:13:14.370 Last theme, it's. That's a great case study for the 0:13:14.370 --> 0:13:15.720 sandwich generation. Yeah. 0:13:16.110 --> 0:13:18.060 So I do think that gender roles do play a 0:13:18.059 --> 0:13:19.710 part in it, but I don't think it's only that. 0:13:19.710 --> 0:13:23.760 I think there's definitely personality. You know, there's people who 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:28.050 have perfectionistic tendencies versus people who don't. You know, people 0:13:28.050 --> 0:13:31.200 who are details oriented versus people who aren't. People who 0:13:31.620 --> 0:13:36.540 are probably more naturally wired to be okay with things 0:13:36.540 --> 0:13:40.950 being just like fine rather than awesome versus people who aren't. 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:44.010 I think personality definitely plays a part in it. 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:49.059 I think it's a question for me. Of value. 0:13:49.690 --> 0:13:50.320 Right? 0:13:50.559 --> 0:14:02.970 So value and. Societies. Societies placed a value within that 0:14:02.970 --> 0:14:04.410 sort of mental load. 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:07.470 I don't think it's valued at all. 0:14:08.270 --> 0:14:09.170 Right? Yeah. 0:14:09.170 --> 0:14:10.820 And I think that's actually where the issue is. 0:14:10.820 --> 0:14:11.540 That's the issue. 0:14:11.540 --> 0:14:15.320 Because I worked for an insurance company back in the 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.320 day that released a product called Million Dollar Woman. And 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:22.770 it was life insurance for someone that was not in 0:14:22.770 --> 0:14:27.000 the paid workforce or like part time or casual, that 0:14:27.000 --> 0:14:32.200 wouldn't have. A big enough chunk of life insurance as 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.710 part of their superannuation because if you're part time, you're 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:42.250 you're supers much less and superannuation is pension, you know, 0:14:42.610 --> 0:14:44.580 for those that are not in Australia. 0:14:44.590 --> 0:14:44.950 Yeah. 0:14:45.550 --> 0:14:52.820 And that product failed miserably because of society's. Was two 0:14:52.820 --> 0:14:55.310 bit like it was two out there. It was two 0:14:55.910 --> 0:14:59.930 to foreign. Do you mean like it was two? What 0:14:59.930 --> 0:15:01.940 does it mean? Like how do how does this work? 0:15:01.940 --> 0:15:03.590 Or this sort of stuff? They just couldn't get their 0:15:03.890 --> 0:15:04.790 heads around it. 0:15:04.790 --> 0:15:07.460 I think it's fascinating because I remember when that came 0:15:07.460 --> 0:15:09.860 out and I was deep in the throes of like 0:15:09.860 --> 0:15:12.200 two young kids, like maybe a one year old and 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:12.620 a baby. 0:15:12.620 --> 0:15:13.160 You were like the. 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:14.690 Perfect target market for. 0:15:14.690 --> 0:15:20.300 It. Yeah. And I felt seen by that because the 0:15:20.300 --> 0:15:23.480 kind of, you know, the messaging was if something was 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.420 to happen to this partner in a relationship, everything would 0:15:26.420 --> 0:15:28.760 grind to a halt because of all of the unpaid 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:32.690 work that happens in the home through them and because 0:15:32.690 --> 0:15:36.540 of them. And that that felt kind of good to 0:15:36.540 --> 0:15:40.620 me as a mum at that stage because I'm like, finally, yes, 100%. 0:15:40.620 --> 0:15:43.860 If if I wasn't able to do what I do. 0:15:44.610 --> 0:15:48.390 We're stuffed, you know, And it's it's sad to me 0:15:48.390 --> 0:15:51.150 that society like it was too big and. 0:15:51.150 --> 0:15:52.950 Ask too big of us for people. 0:15:52.950 --> 0:15:58.229 To to turn around and put a monetary value on 0:15:58.230 --> 0:16:01.650 what is typically a woman's role in a hetero relationship 0:16:01.650 --> 0:16:04.950 of all of these household tasks. And they're like, Well, 0:16:04.950 --> 0:16:07.980 I'm not doing that because then we have to rethink everything. 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.610 If we rethink that, if we start putting a dollar 0:16:11.610 --> 0:16:15.960 value on that kind of work, then that reshapes the 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:22.470 entirety of the way that society is. You know. Formed 0:16:22.470 --> 0:16:24.840 and the things that we value and the things that 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.770 we champion. And no one was ready for that. And 0:16:28.770 --> 0:16:31.860 I don't think people are now. I really don't. I 0:16:31.860 --> 0:16:34.470 think no, I think that the conversation is shifting and 0:16:34.470 --> 0:16:38.160 I think the people for whom it actually applies are 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.670 talking way more openly about it. But I don't see 0:16:41.670 --> 0:16:45.660 any solutions being so it's still the solution is not societal, 0:16:45.660 --> 0:16:49.680 it's not cultural. We're making it individual. We're saying to 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:52.980 that person in the in the home, in the relationship, 0:16:52.980 --> 0:16:56.670 we're saying you need to come up with ways of. 0:16:57.750 --> 0:17:01.830 Better managing this. And I don't I don't know what 0:17:01.830 --> 0:17:04.859 the answer is, but I just think it's really interesting that, 0:17:04.859 --> 0:17:09.659 you know, someone tried a product, someone try to, you know, 0:17:10.170 --> 0:17:14.040 think a thing, a solution. No one took it, No one. 0:17:14.670 --> 0:17:17.850 And now ten years later, we're still having the conversation. 0:17:17.850 --> 0:17:21.990 I'd argue that it's probably more prevalent. Burnout is more prevalent. 0:17:22.650 --> 0:17:27.200 People are doing it far tougher now. Than they were 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:32.350 even ten years ago. And, you know, we're still making 0:17:32.350 --> 0:17:34.870 the the problem an individual one. 0:17:35.910 --> 0:17:38.520 We have come a long way just in terms of 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:44.639 domestic load and unpaid work within the household because ten years, 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:49.619 ten plus years ago. Women were doing. And I'm talking 0:17:49.619 --> 0:17:54.570 along gender gender lines here. Yeah, like double if not triple. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:18:00.150 The figures are now moving to a more equality. 0:18:00.150 --> 0:18:00.900 There, and I think. 0:18:00.900 --> 0:18:06.170 That is. The case in Australia particularly. I have read 0:18:06.170 --> 0:18:12.170 that specifically Australian households have it's evened up, but again 0:18:12.170 --> 0:18:15.170 that's with the domestic load. They drew a line between 0:18:15.170 --> 0:18:19.370 that and the mental load and it's still not by 0:18:19.369 --> 0:18:26.880 any stretch even or coming to be even. Yeah, I think. 0:18:29.020 --> 0:18:30.909 That That's a that's a positive thing. 0:18:30.910 --> 0:18:31.210 It is. 0:18:31.210 --> 0:18:32.800 It's definitely a positive. Yeah. 0:18:33.250 --> 0:18:35.890 But I think going back to your question of value. 0:18:36.250 --> 0:18:40.150 I know for me that's something I have struggled with 0:18:40.180 --> 0:18:46.540 our entire married life is. The fact that. And this 0:18:46.540 --> 0:18:48.370 is partly tied to the work that I do as 0:18:48.369 --> 0:18:51.940 a writer, chronically undervalued. I mean, I don't think I've 0:18:51.940 --> 0:18:53.859 had a year as a writer where I've made anywhere 0:18:53.859 --> 0:18:58.900 near minimum wage, um, except one when the year after 0:18:58.900 --> 0:19:00.400 Slow came out. That was the only year I think 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.210 that I made beyond a minimum wage. So that has 0:19:04.210 --> 0:19:08.380 always played into it too. And then to have on 0:19:08.380 --> 0:19:14.050 top of that, what I consider work, domestic work, family work, 0:19:14.050 --> 0:19:18.030 you know, unpaid work. It's not only invisible, but it's 0:19:18.030 --> 0:19:24.359 also undervalued. And that has messed with my sense of esteem, 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:30.990 my confidence, my sense of my ability to provide value 0:19:30.990 --> 0:19:35.959 in other capacities. And I think that that's not unusual 0:19:36.109 --> 0:19:38.900 for people who have, you know, had a similar kind 0:19:38.900 --> 0:19:43.050 of trajectory. It's. And I don't necessarily think that the 0:19:43.050 --> 0:19:52.260 answer is. Kind of enforcing everyone to go back to 0:19:52.260 --> 0:19:56.900 work full time. Across the board either. You know, I 0:19:56.900 --> 0:19:59.210 just think that we need to shift our sense of 0:19:59.210 --> 0:20:03.740 what we do and don't value in society in terms 0:20:03.740 --> 0:20:08.170 of the energy and effort that goes into it. Yeah. 0:20:10.190 --> 0:20:12.140 And it's interesting, though, to view all of this through 0:20:12.140 --> 0:20:17.489 the lens of feminism, too, because. To me, feminism is 0:20:17.490 --> 0:20:21.960 simply about equality. That's all it's about the belief that 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:25.590 everyone should be treated equally. Then full stop. It's not scary. 0:20:25.590 --> 0:20:31.220 It's not crazy. It's just very plain and simple. So 0:20:31.230 --> 0:20:36.750 that also includes people having the choice to. You know, 0:20:36.750 --> 0:20:39.540 to live the way they wanted to live and they 0:20:39.540 --> 0:20:41.760 want to live. And that works for them and their household, 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:48.520 their family, their dynamic. So even talking about. All the 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:53.740 different options can sometimes feel like I'm being untrue to 0:20:53.740 --> 0:20:55.719 that too. You know, it's a really I find it 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:01.800 really it's a really tricky. Thing to talk about without 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:05.960 feeling like I'm doing someone a disservice, I suppose. Does 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:06.709 that make sense? Yeah, it. 0:21:06.710 --> 0:21:07.670 Does, actually. 0:21:07.700 --> 0:21:08.210 It really does. 0:21:08.300 --> 0:21:13.000 It's not my intention at all. It's a really. Yeah, 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:16.600 it's the patriarchy, right? Like that's this is a patriarchal society. 0:21:18.380 --> 0:21:20.119 And it's having to unpack all of that and all 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:21.980 the stuff that I learned as a kid and, you know, 0:21:21.980 --> 0:21:24.080 all of the things that I saw role modeled and 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:28.290 continue to say, role model. I do think it would 0:21:28.290 --> 0:21:30.510 be an interesting thing. I don't know how you could 0:21:30.510 --> 0:21:34.680 ever do it, but like compare the pressures that, you know, women, 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:38.160 particularly of previous generations, felt versus the pressures that women 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:43.830 of our generation's generation feel. Because their role models were different. 0:21:44.190 --> 0:21:49.500 Their gender roles were different. The expectations were different. But 0:21:49.500 --> 0:21:52.709 also I just think that like social media and the 0:21:52.710 --> 0:21:56.760 Internet in general has opened us up to this entire 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:03.540 world of possibility and expectation and standards that previous generations 0:22:03.869 --> 0:22:08.010 didn't have to operate underneath. And we don't have to, 0:22:08.010 --> 0:22:13.540 I suppose. But it's very hard not to. So it's 0:22:13.540 --> 0:22:15.879 like what used to be good enough is no longer 0:22:15.880 --> 0:22:19.020 good enough. It's going to be great. 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:22.439 It's got to be great. And, you know, if you're. 0:22:24.050 --> 0:22:28.670 Part time or casual or, you know, not in employment. 0:22:28.670 --> 0:22:30.420 You should have a side hustle as well. Right? 0:22:30.440 --> 0:22:31.270 Exactly. So it's. 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:34.129 It's just it's always adding on. 0:22:34.340 --> 0:22:37.250 And it's adding. Yes. It's never taking away. Yeah. 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:38.780 Yeah. 0:22:42.410 --> 0:22:46.010 Yeah, it's very additive the pressures that people are under. 0:22:46.369 --> 0:22:48.139 So it's like, okay, what can we take away? How 0:22:48.140 --> 0:22:53.740 can we lessen the load? I know. For me. Any 0:22:54.340 --> 0:22:57.040 something I've had to learn to do is a recognize 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:01.399 my resentments because they're very real. And very human. I 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:06.020 think everyone goes through periods of resentment, but slowing down 0:23:06.020 --> 0:23:09.410 long enough to recognize them. And again, this is what 0:23:09.410 --> 0:23:11.899 I was sort of getting at the mental load, the 0:23:11.900 --> 0:23:19.460 work of journaling, of practicing self-awareness, of reflecting, of taking 0:23:19.460 --> 0:23:22.129 myself away from social media so I can actually figure 0:23:22.130 --> 0:23:27.110 out what my definition of success is, what my definition of, 0:23:27.109 --> 0:23:29.870 you know, showing up for my family. Like, kind of 0:23:29.869 --> 0:23:33.260 that's all work. It takes time and effort to simplify 0:23:33.260 --> 0:23:37.910 the messaging and doing all of that then allows me. 0:23:39.290 --> 0:23:43.160 To tap into how I'm feeling. And I've found over 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.490 the years, on and off how I'm feeling is resentful. 0:23:46.670 --> 0:23:49.010 So you get to that point and then it's a 0:23:49.010 --> 0:23:53.580 matter of communicating it and then, you know. That's an 0:23:53.580 --> 0:23:57.240 uncomfortable conversation to have when we're both partners in the 0:23:57.240 --> 0:23:59.850 relationship and we work really hard to see each other 0:23:59.850 --> 0:24:02.910 as part of the same team, and often we'll say 0:24:02.910 --> 0:24:05.879 that to each other to say, Hey, I'm feeling a 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:11.379 bit resentful. Doesn't feel great. But it's important because nothing 0:24:11.380 --> 0:24:17.030 changes unless we go there. What I feel like. That's 0:24:17.030 --> 0:24:25.440 not something that you. Would. Actively do. Unless. I don't know. 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:25.980 Is it? 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:28.080 Probably not. Yeah. 0:24:28.170 --> 0:24:33.510 Yeah, probably not. I just keep on thinking again to, like, 0:24:33.510 --> 0:24:38.250 solution mode. Like this is. This is how we often say, 0:24:38.250 --> 0:24:40.919 you and I. I'd love to live like a week 0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:44.840 in your shoes. Like, what's it like for you? Yeah. 0:24:44.850 --> 0:24:47.609 And we've made this observation, particularly when you've been sick. 0:24:47.609 --> 0:24:50.310 And I'm like, I just wish I could, like, feel 0:24:50.310 --> 0:24:53.990 what you're feeling and understand. Just understand it more. I 0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.190 do understand it. I don't think you do until you 0:24:56.190 --> 0:24:57.300 just like living it. 0:24:57.300 --> 0:24:57.720 Yeah. 0:24:58.670 --> 0:25:01.640 But wouldn't it be It would just be fascinating to 0:25:01.640 --> 0:25:07.379 find out. The toll that mental these mental load and 0:25:07.380 --> 0:25:11.280 this you know, this whole thing being seen as being 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:16.680 undervalued and societal expectation like all that sort of combined. 0:25:18.109 --> 0:25:19.820 Into a fitness tracker. 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:21.290 Bear with. 0:25:21.290 --> 0:25:25.880 Me that you could look at and it spits out 0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:29.240 this like chart over the day and saying like and 0:25:29.240 --> 0:25:33.530 it measures the mental load as like a strain like this. 0:25:33.530 --> 0:25:34.790 Is the equivalent. 0:25:34.790 --> 0:25:41.590 Of. A board presentation. Sure. Or like I would love 0:25:41.590 --> 0:25:43.030 a comparison. 0:25:43.510 --> 0:25:44.350 Like if you could map. 0:25:44.350 --> 0:25:45.369 Never going to happen. 0:25:45.369 --> 0:25:47.680 But if you could map the cognitive output. 0:25:47.680 --> 0:25:48.190 That's. 0:25:48.190 --> 0:25:52.240 That. That to me would then I would. You know, 0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:55.180 there's only so much you can empathize with someone in 0:25:55.180 --> 0:25:58.780 these situations without actually living through it. So that would 0:25:58.780 --> 0:26:02.230 then just crystallize it so much more. And you take 0:26:02.230 --> 0:26:09.650 into consideration relative strain of individuals and and. You know, 0:26:09.650 --> 0:26:11.210 you had to compare it then. 0:26:11.390 --> 0:26:11.690 Okay. 0:26:11.690 --> 0:26:14.350 So I agree with you. That would be fascinating. 0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:15.530 Fascinating. Would that be? 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:18.830 So then let's say that you were able to do that, right? 0:26:19.520 --> 0:26:22.370 And then you could put a dollar value on it. Correct. 0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:25.700 Any metric then you would be able to then. 0:26:25.700 --> 0:26:26.689 Yeah, but. 0:26:26.690 --> 0:26:29.240 What I'm saying is if you you know, you were 0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:33.350 able to track your cognitive output versus my cognitive output 0:26:33.350 --> 0:26:35.750 and I don't say versus in like a combative way, but, 0:26:35.750 --> 0:26:47.790 you know. Okay. Uh, and then like dollar for. Output. Output. 0:26:47.820 --> 0:26:49.140 You know, metric. 0:26:49.170 --> 0:26:49.410 Yeah. 0:26:49.619 --> 0:26:54.030 And the difference in that would be. I'm telling you. Staggering. 0:26:54.030 --> 0:26:58.470 I have no doubt, no doubt that your mind is 0:26:58.470 --> 0:27:01.770 just as full as mine. Day to day, hour to hour, 0:27:01.770 --> 0:27:03.900 I have no doubt. And I'm not. This is never 0:27:03.900 --> 0:27:07.560 about comparing that and saying someone is doing it harder 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:09.810 than the other because I take on a lot of 0:27:09.810 --> 0:27:12.690 the mental load and the domestic load because as I said, 0:27:12.690 --> 0:27:15.720 your workload is far higher than mine at the moment. 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:19.050 That ebbs and flows and we ebb and flow. But currently, 0:27:19.050 --> 0:27:22.920 and probably this year, it's fair to say that that's 0:27:22.920 --> 0:27:28.369 the case. So let's say both as hardworking, you know, 0:27:28.369 --> 0:27:33.619 conscientious people that we are we're both showing up equal ish. Yeah. 0:27:33.619 --> 0:27:38.570 Mentally in our various roles. And I believe that. You're 0:27:38.570 --> 0:27:44.600 getting paid for it. I'm not. You know, and that's. 0:27:46.300 --> 0:27:48.460 I wish that that wasn't the metric I kept coming 0:27:48.460 --> 0:27:50.980 back to. I really do, because I believe in a 0:27:50.980 --> 0:27:56.600 world where that isn't. That shouldn't be the the measure 0:27:56.600 --> 0:27:59.689 of value. But as it stands at the moment, it 0:27:59.690 --> 0:28:03.169 kind of is. You get paid for the work that 0:28:03.170 --> 0:28:05.240 you do. I get paid for some of the work 0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:07.910 that I do, but the stuff that we're talking about now, like. 0:28:08.650 --> 0:28:11.919 The extra, the invisible, the unrecognized. No one pays you 0:28:11.920 --> 0:28:15.159 for it. I'm not saying I want to be, but 0:28:15.160 --> 0:28:17.320 it's value. That's how we show value. Right? 0:28:17.590 --> 0:28:23.440 Should there be, then, as part of someone's job description? 0:28:24.190 --> 0:28:27.070 It's recognizing like it's a tick like if you go 0:28:27.070 --> 0:28:32.570 for a job I. What is your marital status? Um, 0:28:32.720 --> 0:28:37.260 just bear with me. You know, Do you watch your. 0:28:37.619 --> 0:28:41.490 Do you have kids and and find out some really 0:28:41.490 --> 0:28:46.020 quite basic information about your living like. 0:28:47.850 --> 0:28:49.740 Just experience and circumstance. 0:28:49.740 --> 0:28:57.200 Right? So then. You as an employee don't get paid. 0:28:57.930 --> 0:29:04.850 You as a family get paid because that then. Includes 0:29:04.850 --> 0:29:08.390 things like just in a job description. It'll just have, 0:29:08.590 --> 0:29:12.380 you know, key responsibilities and set criteria and all that 0:29:12.380 --> 0:29:14.840 sort of stuff. And it has like lists out all 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:18.080 the things based on that job, but it also includes. 0:29:21.600 --> 0:29:23.820 You don't even. You're not even buying what you're saying. 0:29:25.180 --> 0:29:25.810 Go on. 0:29:26.530 --> 0:29:30.960 I'm trying to. Blue sky thinking or blue ocean thinking is, 0:29:32.100 --> 0:29:39.750 you know, the includes a payment as part of your salary. No, 0:29:39.750 --> 0:29:40.770 that's not right. 0:29:41.610 --> 0:29:42.720 I understand what you're saying. 0:29:42.750 --> 0:29:45.780 It includes metrics like will be away from home, will 0:29:45.780 --> 0:29:49.770 be you know, we'll will not be able to do 0:29:49.770 --> 0:29:53.160 anything over eight hours per day. Like like, it's just 0:29:53.700 --> 0:29:58.560 it's trying to put the emphasis less on, okay, you 0:29:58.560 --> 0:30:00.690 come and work and you, you do the job. But 0:30:00.690 --> 0:30:03.150 there's also a lot going behind the scenes for you 0:30:03.150 --> 0:30:05.280 to be able to do the job right. And so 0:30:05.280 --> 0:30:08.280 it's acknowledging the fact that, yeah, you won't be able 0:30:08.280 --> 0:30:11.340 to drop your kids off from school to school from 0:30:11.460 --> 0:30:14.070 pick them up from school. You won't be able to 0:30:14.070 --> 0:30:18.110 clean the bathroom like it's. I'm not sure I need 0:30:18.110 --> 0:30:19.730 to think about it a little bit more, but there's 0:30:19.730 --> 0:30:24.969 there's something in there that it's not. Legally, yes. The 0:30:24.970 --> 0:30:28.840 contract is between an employee, a single person, but it 0:30:28.840 --> 0:30:34.510 also recognizes. The great work that has to happen for 0:30:34.540 --> 0:30:36.040 that employee to be able to do their job. 0:30:36.130 --> 0:30:40.070 Yeah. Right. Okay. I mean, I see what you're saying. 0:30:40.070 --> 0:30:43.100 So it's not me getting paid as an employee? Yep. 0:30:43.100 --> 0:30:44.870 It's McAlary getting. 0:30:45.140 --> 0:30:46.250 Paid, right? 0:30:46.520 --> 0:30:48.200 It's the McAlary family. 0:30:48.230 --> 0:30:50.510 I see some significant gaps in that plan. 0:30:50.510 --> 0:30:51.440 But a huge gap. 0:30:51.440 --> 0:30:52.460 I. 0:30:52.490 --> 0:30:55.820 I'm just trying to change, like, the conversation around what 0:30:55.820 --> 0:30:57.229 it is to be valued. 0:30:57.380 --> 0:30:58.370 Yes. Okay. 0:30:58.370 --> 0:31:00.410 We're not going to be able to like the government's 0:31:00.410 --> 0:31:02.630 not going to come out and say everyone will get 0:31:02.630 --> 0:31:04.670 a minimum wage. 0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:07.190 Right. So that's what I was going to say. What 0:31:07.190 --> 0:31:11.850 you're basically. Advocating for there is universal basic income. 0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:12.060 Well. 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:15.420 It's sort of like that, but it's not really it's 0:31:15.420 --> 0:31:18.270 still it's not called that. It's just building to your 0:31:18.270 --> 0:31:24.620 employee contract. Employment contract. Then there'll be issues around. Companies like, 0:31:24.620 --> 0:31:24.980 you know. 0:31:25.010 --> 0:31:28.400 Well, yeah, it's not a company's job to, you know, 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:29.090 to do that. 0:31:29.090 --> 0:31:29.310 All right. 0:31:29.330 --> 0:31:30.770 Huge, huge holes. 0:31:30.920 --> 0:31:31.590 Huge. 0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:34.970 Appreciate. It's a big swing. I do appreciate the big swing. 0:31:34.970 --> 0:31:36.100 Big swing. No ding. 0:31:36.130 --> 0:31:37.280 You're right. 0:31:40.490 --> 0:31:43.280 I think going back, though, to what I was saying 0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:53.240 about communication. We've had conversations. Where? It's mostly been me 0:31:53.240 --> 0:32:02.080 saying we need to renegotiate. Recalibrate what? The shared load 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:06.220 looks like. I don't think that you've brought that up 0:32:06.220 --> 0:32:10.450 yourself before. Don't think so. I'm not being a smart Alec. 0:32:10.460 --> 0:32:13.160 I actually don't think you have. But anyway, it's the 0:32:13.160 --> 0:32:16.370 conversations that we have had. How? Like, how do you. 0:32:17.870 --> 0:32:21.410 How do you feel when those conversations happen? Because I 0:32:21.410 --> 0:32:24.590 try very hard for it to never sound like a. 0:32:25.750 --> 0:32:31.090 Finger pointing sort of exercise or a. You know, a 0:32:31.090 --> 0:32:33.520 blaming kind of exercise. Yeah. 0:32:33.520 --> 0:32:38.740 It's hard not to feel like a lazy B, not. 0:32:39.130 --> 0:32:41.860 Why can't I just think of that myself and do it? 0:32:42.070 --> 0:32:46.240 You know what I mean? Like, a bit ashamed, lazy, ashamed. 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:51.430 And three would be. But I don't want to do that. 0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:55.180 I thought you were going to say defensive, but. All right. 0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:57.640 You went with honest. I like it. 0:33:03.850 --> 0:33:04.240 I don't want. 0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:05.050 To clean the windows. 0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:08.380 Sure, no one does. This is the point. Yeah, maybe 0:33:08.380 --> 0:33:10.930 someone does. I apologize. You know what would. 0:33:12.850 --> 0:33:16.930 You know for me personally, what would make it better? 0:33:17.500 --> 0:33:19.150 The conversation around it. Yeah. 0:33:19.390 --> 0:33:20.200 Is. 0:33:20.950 --> 0:33:23.890 Every September we clean the windows. 0:33:24.720 --> 0:33:25.450 Okay. Do what. 0:33:25.450 --> 0:33:29.620 I mean. And then every December, we clean the outside 0:33:29.620 --> 0:33:31.209 of the house, which is kind of like what we 0:33:31.210 --> 0:33:31.440 do now. 0:33:31.510 --> 0:33:32.140 Is actually what we. 0:33:32.140 --> 0:33:34.180 Do. And that's in the back of my brain. And 0:33:34.180 --> 0:33:37.660 every November, we stain the deck when it's not pouring. 0:33:39.100 --> 0:33:40.150 Okay, so that's interesting. 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:44.010 That's in the back of my head is. I know that. 0:33:44.010 --> 0:33:47.010 And that's a that's mental load, right? That's an example 0:33:47.010 --> 0:33:47.780 of mental load. 0:33:47.820 --> 0:33:48.300 It is. 0:33:48.300 --> 0:33:52.440 And it's interesting because I, I will have rhythms that 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:56.790 I have created for myself. Uh, that can be weekly. 0:33:56.790 --> 0:34:00.510 So that includes things like household tasks that just need 0:34:00.510 --> 0:34:02.310 to be done roughly every week and then some that 0:34:02.310 --> 0:34:02.910 are same. I know. 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:03.900 I know. I know. 0:34:03.930 --> 0:34:06.750 I know you know that. But there are other ones 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:09.870 that I have that I've never communicated to. 0:34:09.900 --> 0:34:10.950 Seasonal yearly. 0:34:10.950 --> 0:34:15.390 Yeah. And I've never communicated them to you. So that's 0:34:15.390 --> 0:34:19.180 on me. I mean, that's on me for not. Talking 0:34:19.180 --> 0:34:22.360 about it and sort of and because I'm much the same, 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:26.440 I find attaching tasks to set periods of time really helpful. 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:28.660 And it just means that you don't have to keep 0:34:28.660 --> 0:34:31.300 doing This is a light bulb moment. You don't have 0:34:31.300 --> 0:34:34.210 to keep doing the mental work of figuring out when 0:34:34.210 --> 0:34:37.450 to do these things because we know on Thursdays I 0:34:37.450 --> 0:34:39.460 do this and then the Fridays I do that. 0:34:39.460 --> 0:34:40.570 It's part of the. 0:34:40.690 --> 0:34:44.770 And also, you know, exactly being, being kind of flexible 0:34:44.770 --> 0:34:47.350 with it rather than being routine and strict and like 0:34:47.350 --> 0:34:51.760 stuck to very specific timeframes. You can be flexible with 0:34:51.760 --> 0:34:55.180 it to a certain extent, which allows you for the, 0:34:55.180 --> 0:34:57.130 you know, the ebbs and flows of life. 0:34:58.610 --> 0:34:59.040 Mm. 0:34:59.719 --> 0:35:02.540 So that's, that's down to communication. That's not even down 0:35:02.540 --> 0:35:05.120 to doing the, the work of it because that's sort 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:07.790 of almost done. But you know, maybe once a year 0:35:07.790 --> 0:35:10.940 or once every six months we sit down, we. 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:12.529 You know, you know. 0:35:12.530 --> 0:35:13.370 What, we talk about. 0:35:13.370 --> 0:35:17.450 The next two quarters, what kind of tasks are attached 0:35:17.450 --> 0:35:19.310 to it, why we may or may not be able 0:35:19.310 --> 0:35:21.680 to do it, how we can shift things around. 0:35:22.460 --> 0:35:27.110 Yeah. What what's hard is when you keep it to 0:35:27.110 --> 0:35:29.750 yourself and then just be like, Oh, I'm the only 0:35:29.750 --> 0:35:30.350 one that does. 0:35:30.350 --> 0:35:30.980 This. 0:35:31.250 --> 0:35:33.960 And just come out with it. And I'm like, I 0:35:33.980 --> 0:35:35.029 don't even know. 0:35:35.030 --> 0:35:35.750 That that was. 0:35:35.750 --> 0:35:39.690 Part of like your. Thought processes. 0:35:39.690 --> 0:35:41.760 Because I think at some point I just get tired 0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:43.920 of thinking about it. So I don't want to. 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:44.910 So communicate. 0:35:44.910 --> 0:35:45.630 That, but I don't. 0:35:45.660 --> 0:35:48.120 I've already done the thinking about it. I don't want 0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:49.890 to keep talking about it. Do you know what I mean? 0:35:49.890 --> 0:35:52.890 Like talking about it is another version of thinking about it. 0:35:53.010 --> 0:35:54.600 I'm not saying that that's correct. 0:35:54.600 --> 0:35:56.219 Well, don't talk about it. Just do it, then. 0:35:58.300 --> 0:35:58.430 Hmm. 0:35:58.710 --> 0:36:02.880 So that's the that's almost the because I have those situations, too, 0:36:02.880 --> 0:36:08.879 where I'm. I'm thinking about it. And instead of communicating 0:36:08.880 --> 0:36:10.319 it with you, I'll just go and do it. 0:36:11.100 --> 0:36:12.330 Oh, no doubt. Yeah. 0:36:13.500 --> 0:36:13.919 No doubt. 0:36:13.920 --> 0:36:17.460 Because it's it's too hard to. It's not too hard. 0:36:17.580 --> 0:36:18.109 One might be. 0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:19.740 You don't want to double dip. And that's what it 0:36:19.739 --> 0:36:20.190 feels like. 0:36:20.190 --> 0:36:22.560 I don't want a double dare. I may as well 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:26.010 just go and do it. So it'll be just done. Yep. Pragmatic. 0:36:26.870 --> 0:36:29.270 But not necessarily healthy. 0:36:29.360 --> 0:36:31.399 No, I think it's a little bit passive aggressive. 0:36:31.430 --> 0:36:34.310 You do it all the time. Yes. Okay. Some things 0:36:34.310 --> 0:36:38.210 like the lawns, like I'm just doing the lawns. It's 0:36:38.210 --> 0:36:39.890 an unwritten law that that's what I will do. 0:36:39.890 --> 0:36:43.219 It's an unwritten law. Okay. I like mowing the lawns. 0:36:43.940 --> 0:36:46.130 But you do them. I like doing it, but you 0:36:46.130 --> 0:36:49.279 actually do it. So that's a difference as well. But what? Sorry. 0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:52.520 When I was saying it's an unwritten law, it's like, 0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:54.770 why is it an unwritten law? Because that's what you 0:36:54.770 --> 0:36:55.820 grew up doing. 0:36:55.820 --> 0:36:56.989 Do you know we never. 0:36:56.989 --> 0:36:59.630 Communicate when I'm going to do the lawns. Do it, 0:36:59.630 --> 0:37:03.200 do we? Yep. No, we do not. 0:37:04.710 --> 0:37:08.700 We don't like schedule it. But you say to me, 0:37:08.700 --> 0:37:10.260 I'm going to try and do the lawns on Friday 0:37:10.260 --> 0:37:12.089 afternoon or I'm going to do them on Saturday after 0:37:12.090 --> 0:37:19.970 football or whatever. Okay. Yeah, but even that, it's. 0:37:19.980 --> 0:37:24.960 So hard not to get defensive about some of this stuff. 0:37:24.960 --> 0:37:27.390 But it's also I think it's also important to have, 0:37:27.390 --> 0:37:30.210 you know, open conversation like none of this is fresh. 0:37:30.210 --> 0:37:33.000 We're not we're not rehashing this stuff. We're not hashing 0:37:33.000 --> 0:37:35.700 this stuff out for the first time, you know, on 0:37:35.700 --> 0:37:38.009 a podcast because that would be weird. This is stuff 0:37:38.010 --> 0:37:41.710 that we have spoken about at length. And even still, 0:37:41.739 --> 0:37:46.879 it can be tough to not feel called out. So. 0:37:48.130 --> 0:37:51.250 I think you and I have gone to great lengths 0:37:51.250 --> 0:37:57.730 over the last few years, particularly to. Do a better 0:37:57.730 --> 0:38:01.450 job of communicating to do a better job of sharing 0:38:01.450 --> 0:38:07.180 the mental load. You picked up a lot when my 0:38:07.180 --> 0:38:11.109 dad was unwell and when my health tanked. So there 0:38:11.110 --> 0:38:13.600 was a lot that you picked up that I just 0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:17.680 could not do. And this year has been a matter 0:38:17.680 --> 0:38:21.430 of trying to recalibrate that to to a point that's 0:38:21.430 --> 0:38:28.190 more fair. I think. And that's something that we have 0:38:28.190 --> 0:38:31.700 both had to want to do in order to have 0:38:31.700 --> 0:38:36.270 the conversations in order to make any change. I think 0:38:36.270 --> 0:38:40.589 the tricky thing is if someone's in a relationship with 0:38:40.590 --> 0:38:44.160 another person who has got the better end of the deal. 0:38:45.880 --> 0:38:50.709 They have to want to change as well. But that's tricky, right? 0:38:50.710 --> 0:38:54.910 When it behooves someone to continue the way they are 0:38:54.910 --> 0:38:58.989 while the other person is really struggling. Like, I think 0:38:58.989 --> 0:39:02.590 that that's hard as well. It's sort of having multiple 0:39:02.590 --> 0:39:04.390 conversations over time. 0:39:04.690 --> 0:39:05.469 Oh, that's that's. 0:39:05.469 --> 0:39:06.190 The way to do it. 0:39:06.190 --> 0:39:07.780 It's not a one and done. 0:39:07.780 --> 0:39:08.290 It's not a. 0:39:08.290 --> 0:39:09.250 Screaming. 0:39:09.700 --> 0:39:09.989 No. 0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:17.880 It's a. Very well thought out. Communication over a period 0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:18.359 of time. 0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:21.540 And let's say this is coming from a person who 0:39:21.540 --> 0:39:24.900 is carrying the majority of the mental load. I'm not 0:39:24.900 --> 0:39:29.069 talking about us at the moment, like specifically. That just 0:39:29.070 --> 0:39:31.080 adds to the mental load for them to have to 0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:34.469 think through. And you just said a really well thought 0:39:34.469 --> 0:39:38.070 out conversation where it doesn't feel like you're attacking. Like 0:39:38.070 --> 0:39:42.000 that is not easy to do when you are feeling resentful, exhausted, 0:39:42.000 --> 0:39:47.100 burnt out, taken for granted. To then add on top 0:39:47.100 --> 0:39:51.810 of that. Now you must have this calm, kind, compassionate 0:39:51.810 --> 0:39:54.690 conversation with your partner. And if they're going to meet you, 0:39:54.690 --> 0:39:57.180 they're wonderful. But if they're going to feel called out 0:39:57.180 --> 0:40:00.989 and react, not great, like that's just something else for 0:40:01.260 --> 0:40:05.430 that person to carry. And I completely understand why people 0:40:05.430 --> 0:40:07.230 are like, you know what? I'm just going to do it. 0:40:07.230 --> 0:40:10.320 It's just easier because I'm not going to think about 0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:11.970 this as well as having to think about this and 0:40:11.969 --> 0:40:16.299 this and this and this. It's really tricky. But I 0:40:16.300 --> 0:40:24.040 think that for us at least, it's been like. Gradual. Um, 0:40:24.719 --> 0:40:26.940 well intentioned conversation. 0:40:27.330 --> 0:40:30.670 The the breakthrough for me back in the day and 0:40:30.690 --> 0:40:34.650 I'm talking ten plus years ago on the start during 0:40:34.650 --> 0:40:37.200 the start of your slow living journey was when you 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:42.810 were saying, why are we so busy doing like. Cleaning 0:40:42.810 --> 0:40:45.960 and spending our weekends doing all this stuff only to 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:50.760 then Sunday afternoon, turn around and your week starts again. 0:40:51.630 --> 0:40:55.650 And it was you getting us into this rhythm where 0:40:55.650 --> 0:40:59.210 we would do things. And we do them on a 0:40:59.210 --> 0:41:05.990 regular occurrence rather than like a big. Top to tail. 0:41:06.000 --> 0:41:06.480 You have. 0:41:06.480 --> 0:41:10.230 To clean the bathroom like once a month. It was 0:41:10.230 --> 0:41:14.060 every week cleaning, but concentrating on one. I don't know. 0:41:14.100 --> 0:41:17.190 I don't even remember what it was. Right? But it 0:41:17.190 --> 0:41:20.219 then saved us. It gave us so much more time 0:41:20.219 --> 0:41:21.660 to be able to do the things we want to 0:41:21.660 --> 0:41:25.830 do on the weekend. And that for me, was the 0:41:25.830 --> 0:41:31.080 big breakthrough. So it was you highlighting the benefits. This 0:41:31.080 --> 0:41:33.210 is how much better our life can be if we 0:41:33.210 --> 0:41:36.900 do this. And then doing the planning and then working 0:41:36.900 --> 0:41:39.960 out the routine and who does what. And that was 0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:45.870 the big thing. So it's highlighting the benefits rather than. 0:41:48.630 --> 0:41:49.560 Anything else? 0:41:49.590 --> 0:41:51.150 Yeah. Okay. 0:41:51.969 --> 0:41:54.840 That's interesting that you like that. It went that far back. 0:41:54.850 --> 0:41:55.480 Yeah, I. 0:41:55.660 --> 0:41:56.950 Distinctly remember it. 0:41:58.280 --> 0:42:02.870 So it's a it's a moving thing. Yeah. And that's 0:42:02.870 --> 0:42:06.450 but that's as it should be, I think, because. You know, 0:42:06.450 --> 0:42:08.580 mental load for both of us looked different ten years 0:42:08.580 --> 0:42:10.290 ago than it does now. So of course, you need 0:42:10.290 --> 0:42:15.240 to revisit and recalibrate. It's interesting. Lots of food for 0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:18.660 thought here, honey. As you just made a face looking 0:42:18.660 --> 0:42:19.930 at how long we've been talking so. 0:42:19.950 --> 0:42:22.320 Far, believe how quickly that went. 0:42:24.330 --> 0:42:26.070 Well, I think it's a good that's a kind of 0:42:26.070 --> 0:42:29.880 a good point to. Shift into the next part of 0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:34.020 the podcast where we usually reflect on something we've read 0:42:34.020 --> 0:42:37.230 or listen to or found ourselves thinking about over the 0:42:37.230 --> 0:42:43.740 last month. And this actually dovetails really nicely into a 0:42:43.739 --> 0:42:49.260 post from the Tortoise. A couple of weeks ago called 0:42:49.260 --> 0:42:54.910 Happiness is for Losers. Which I struggled with that that headline, 0:42:54.910 --> 0:42:56.770 it felt a little negative. But I promise you that 0:42:56.770 --> 0:43:01.810 it's a really uplifting post, really just talking about the 0:43:01.810 --> 0:43:09.830 difference between happiness and contentment and. Why I think there 0:43:09.830 --> 0:43:13.940 is ironically happiness to be found when we let go 0:43:13.940 --> 0:43:18.140 of the relentless need to be better, to strive, to 0:43:18.140 --> 0:43:21.109 excel and exceed expectations. To be. 0:43:21.110 --> 0:43:22.310 Perfect. Yeah. 0:43:23.219 --> 0:43:28.529 So. You know, I think that that. That does sort 0:43:28.530 --> 0:43:31.140 of relate a lot to the conversation we've been having 0:43:31.140 --> 0:43:34.800 about mental load, not because that will solve anything, but 0:43:34.800 --> 0:43:39.100 because it might help us to recalibrate again. What? Our 0:43:39.100 --> 0:43:42.640 expectations are of ourselves with our homes, of what balance 0:43:42.640 --> 0:43:46.270 looks like, of what success looks like, of what, you know, 0:43:46.270 --> 0:43:49.120 success in loads of different areas of life look like 0:43:49.120 --> 0:43:55.799 to just. Embrace the idea of being okay with being okay. 0:43:56.250 --> 0:43:57.060 To be fine? 0:43:57.060 --> 0:43:58.560 Yeah, to be just fine. 0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:04.230 This was huge for you. Ten years ago, you were 100% 0:44:04.230 --> 0:44:09.780 a perfectionist. That was your personal. You were absolute perfectionist. 0:44:09.989 --> 0:44:15.310 And I'm not a perfectionist. I'm a. People pleaser. 0:44:16.370 --> 0:44:17.060 Yeah. 0:44:17.540 --> 0:44:19.350 So that's a bad combo for us. 0:44:19.400 --> 0:44:19.910 Yeah. 0:44:21.750 --> 0:44:26.390 Because I'm always striving to be. Perfect. And I'm not perfect. 0:44:28.160 --> 0:44:28.629 Yeah. 0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:33.370 Okay. At the risk of derailing our conversation. That's interesting, 0:44:33.370 --> 0:44:33.800 isn't it? 0:44:33.830 --> 0:44:34.719 I just. I just. 0:44:34.719 --> 0:44:38.840 Noticed that. I just realized that. So you were looking 0:44:38.840 --> 0:44:43.040 perfect for perfection in someone that was never going to 0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:43.670 be perfect? 0:44:43.700 --> 0:44:46.160 I know perfection isn't for me. It's not me looking 0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:48.800 at you for, like, looking for perfection in you. 0:44:48.920 --> 0:44:49.610 Damn it. 0:44:50.730 --> 0:44:55.130 Sorry. I mean, if I was looking, that's what I 0:44:55.130 --> 0:45:00.230 would find, obviously. But. No. God, it's. It's very much 0:45:00.230 --> 0:45:03.319 a person. Like, it's. It's the lens through which I 0:45:03.320 --> 0:45:09.399 view my efforts of. Trying to make everything perfect, like 0:45:09.400 --> 0:45:11.020 the things that I do, the things that I say, 0:45:11.020 --> 0:45:12.790 the things that I write, the way I show up 0:45:12.790 --> 0:45:15.610 need to be perfect. That's something that I've been working 0:45:15.610 --> 0:45:17.170 on relentlessly. 0:45:17.170 --> 0:45:17.880 And you've done like. 0:45:17.950 --> 0:45:20.830 It's incredible the amount of work you've done. 0:45:21.130 --> 0:45:21.820 On that. 0:45:22.540 --> 0:45:27.819 Yeah, but I think that. There is something really powerful 0:45:27.820 --> 0:45:34.690 there for all of us in recognizing. That what I 0:45:34.710 --> 0:45:38.850 think what we think we're chasing always is happiness. But 0:45:38.850 --> 0:45:42.210 by embracing contentment, you know, being okay with things as 0:45:42.210 --> 0:45:46.560 they are, whether they are great or not, we actually 0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:50.640 open ourselves up for more happiness because you find delight 0:45:50.640 --> 0:45:54.000 in whatever is in front of you rather than constantly 0:45:54.000 --> 0:45:57.420 looking for the next best version of it. You know, 0:45:57.420 --> 0:46:01.280 the I'll be happy wins. Yeah. I'll be happy when 0:46:01.280 --> 0:46:03.590 I get the promotion. I'll be happy when the house 0:46:03.590 --> 0:46:06.370 is clean. I'll be happy when I get this job, 0:46:06.380 --> 0:46:09.650 you know, whatever it might be. Just be happy now 0:46:10.250 --> 0:46:13.940 and enjoy it for what it is. But there's then 0:46:13.940 --> 0:46:19.440 a tension between. Settling as if it's a bad thing. 0:46:19.680 --> 0:46:21.899 I don't think it is. But, you know, people view 0:46:21.900 --> 0:46:25.980 it as a bad thing and striving. And someone in 0:46:25.980 --> 0:46:30.000 the comments raised this point that I haven't stopped thinking 0:46:30.000 --> 0:46:34.530 about since she she wrote it. It was Stephanie. Thank you, Stephanie. Um. 0:46:36.070 --> 0:46:40.870 She basically said, could we use our values, our personal 0:46:40.870 --> 0:46:46.080 values as. And as areas of focus in which we 0:46:46.080 --> 0:46:50.319 if we want to strive, if we want to. Have 0:46:50.320 --> 0:46:54.640 ambition if we want to pursue be perfect. No, no, no, no, 0:46:54.640 --> 0:46:58.810 not be perfect. But if we want to improve. And grow. 0:47:00.130 --> 0:47:05.020 Focus those efforts in our areas of personal values. And 0:47:05.020 --> 0:47:07.870 I'd never thought about that, as, you know, as a 0:47:07.870 --> 0:47:12.890 related kind of thought. But it really. Appeals to me, 0:47:12.890 --> 0:47:16.190 I think, because otherwise, you know, if you are someone 0:47:16.190 --> 0:47:19.850 who is has perfectionistic tendencies or is a people pleaser 0:47:20.630 --> 0:47:23.629 or is attached to a certain idea of what success 0:47:23.630 --> 0:47:26.450 looks like or, you know, whatever it might be, this thing, 0:47:26.450 --> 0:47:30.200 this this drive that keeps pushing you. There's nothing wrong 0:47:30.200 --> 0:47:32.509 with that. And that's not what my post was about. 0:47:32.510 --> 0:47:37.660 It was not about. Adopting mediocrity across the board all 0:47:37.660 --> 0:47:41.860 the time in everything, but about allowing ourselves to be 0:47:41.860 --> 0:47:44.530 average in areas of life and being fine with that. 0:47:44.710 --> 0:47:48.400 And I think the extension of that is because over 0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:56.230 time that then opens us up to. Opportunities for. Growth 0:47:56.230 --> 0:47:59.140 and improvement and betterment. But if they are attached to 0:47:59.140 --> 0:48:01.030 the things that we value, those things that we that 0:48:01.030 --> 0:48:03.969 are most important to us in life where you know. 0:48:04.850 --> 0:48:05.600 Well like that. 0:48:05.810 --> 0:48:08.580 Over time, we're building the sort of life that we want. 0:48:08.600 --> 0:48:11.960 It kind of gives us a a guide or a map. 0:48:12.950 --> 0:48:13.549 Yeah. 0:48:13.550 --> 0:48:17.060 So ironic during when you were drafting that post, you 0:48:17.060 --> 0:48:18.980 came up to me and said, Could you read this? 0:48:20.060 --> 0:48:21.830 And you said, What do you think? And I said, 0:48:21.830 --> 0:48:22.700 It's fine. 0:48:23.570 --> 0:48:24.710 And I'm like, but. 0:48:24.710 --> 0:48:29.870 I want it to be excellent. But someone else commented, Yeah. 0:48:29.870 --> 0:48:32.360 And she's like, I'm fine with just being fine so 0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:35.150 that when I want to give my time and energy 0:48:35.150 --> 0:48:38.360 to something that is excellent, that I ask myself, could 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:40.180 I have done any better? And the answer is no. 0:48:40.190 --> 0:48:42.589 She's like, For me, it's my writing. And I'm like, 0:48:42.590 --> 0:48:46.819 Say yes. Okay. Yeah. And that sort of crystallized it again. 0:48:46.830 --> 0:48:49.400 It's like, you don't have to be just fine with everything. 0:48:49.400 --> 0:48:53.000 And you know, but if there's something in your life 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:56.330 that a number of people said, like their relationships, they 0:48:56.330 --> 0:49:00.230 they spend time and effort wanting to excel in their 0:49:00.230 --> 0:49:03.200 relationships because the flow on of that is so important 0:49:03.200 --> 0:49:06.870 to them, you know. So it was I kind of 0:49:06.870 --> 0:49:09.180 felt like a fraud when you said it's just fine. 0:49:09.180 --> 0:49:11.370 And I know you were being a smart ass. 0:49:11.400 --> 0:49:11.729 I was. 0:49:11.730 --> 0:49:13.500 But the only reason why I did it, it was great. 0:49:13.500 --> 0:49:16.259 It wasn't fine. It's a great post. 0:49:16.260 --> 0:49:20.430 Thank you. Still aiming for excellent, though. Yeah. And I. 0:49:20.430 --> 0:49:21.270 Reserve my judgment. 0:49:23.640 --> 0:49:29.610 If that's something that that resonates with you or if 0:49:29.610 --> 0:49:35.670 you're curious about wanting to. Know more about your own values. 0:49:35.690 --> 0:49:40.640 I actually did run a values workshop over on the 0:49:40.640 --> 0:49:44.450 Tortoise a few months ago back in March, and it's 0:49:44.450 --> 0:49:47.510 available to everyone who is a paying subscriber, which is 0:49:47.510 --> 0:49:51.020 $5 a month. So you can definitely go and check 0:49:51.020 --> 0:49:56.900 that out. Just go to Brooke McAlary substack.com and there's 0:49:56.900 --> 0:49:59.239 a link to it at the top of the page 0:49:59.239 --> 0:50:02.720 because I do think that values and understanding our personal 0:50:02.719 --> 0:50:06.410 values is so key and I think I'm becoming more 0:50:06.410 --> 0:50:11.890 convinced of how important it is to living. You know, a. 0:50:13.219 --> 0:50:16.980 More intentional life. Yeah. 0:50:18.360 --> 0:50:24.530 1%? Yes. How are you going with your 1%? Uh. 0:50:25.670 --> 0:50:29.830 Okay. I had a breakthrough last month, actually. 0:50:29.830 --> 0:50:30.850 Okay. Share. 0:50:31.969 --> 0:50:37.460 I realized that I was still waiting for the big 0:50:37.460 --> 0:50:43.640 showy result. So the whole the theory being that, you know, 1% 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:46.339 effort every day or whenever you can do it does 0:50:46.340 --> 0:50:48.069 over time at a compound. 0:50:48.090 --> 0:50:48.400 Yeah. 0:50:48.410 --> 0:50:50.690 Into significance. 0:50:50.900 --> 0:50:56.890 Right. But I was waiting for that. I was waiting for, 0:50:57.010 --> 0:51:01.370 you know, the moment that. The dam walls burst in. 0:51:01.370 --> 0:51:04.990 All of my efforts kind of came to fruition at once. Yeah, 0:51:05.090 --> 0:51:08.900 and that's not how it works. But it was interesting 0:51:08.900 --> 0:51:12.170 that I had taken that kind of mentality and applied 0:51:12.170 --> 0:51:14.780 it to the 1%. So, you know, it was like, 0:51:15.380 --> 0:51:17.509 you know, weeding the garden. I'm always talking about weeding 0:51:17.510 --> 0:51:19.279 the garden as though it's all I ever do. But, 0:51:19.910 --> 0:51:22.700 you know, why isn't it making more of a difference? 0:51:22.700 --> 0:51:26.969 Why can I not see more progress with my 15 0:51:26.969 --> 0:51:29.830 minutes a day or my 1% of the week? Like, 0:51:29.840 --> 0:51:31.850 because that's not the point. The point is not that 0:51:31.850 --> 0:51:34.190 you're going to have a moment of breakthrough. The point 0:51:34.190 --> 0:51:38.299 is that you are showing up for this thing. Regardless. 0:51:39.320 --> 0:51:41.359 So that was interesting. So I feel like I'd been 0:51:41.360 --> 0:51:45.170 saying all the right things, but not necessarily fully believing it. 0:51:45.800 --> 0:51:46.280 Yeah. 0:51:46.430 --> 0:51:51.140 So that's shifting for me and really, you know, reframing. 0:51:51.940 --> 0:51:57.980 My expectations of what that looks like. Um. Yeah, but 0:51:58.130 --> 0:52:07.350 practically speaking, it has certainly helped. With my writing. I'm back. 0:52:07.710 --> 0:52:11.490 Working on my creative writing, which is really nice. After 0:52:11.489 --> 0:52:13.799 having a bit of a dip kind of through the 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:18.170 last part of April, beginning of May. So I'm trying 0:52:18.650 --> 0:52:23.000 just to apply the 1%, not going 1% and whatever 0:52:23.000 --> 0:52:27.950 else I can, you know, squeeze in, it's just 1% 0:52:28.070 --> 0:52:30.680 and just keep showing up with the 1% and have 0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:33.169 faith that over time that adds up to something. What 0:52:33.170 --> 0:52:39.780 that something is. Who knows? But as a. As a baseline, 0:52:39.780 --> 0:52:44.540 as a commitment. As like a. Acknowledgment of showing up 0:52:44.540 --> 0:52:50.460 for this thing. That's important to me. That's been really helpful. 0:52:51.000 --> 0:52:53.100 And like so like I said last month, I think 0:52:53.400 --> 0:52:55.589 I started viewing the 1% through that lens of my 0:52:55.590 --> 0:53:02.569 values as well. And that's been kind of. Helpful and enlightening. 0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:05.940 What about you? Where are you up to with your 1%? 0:53:05.960 --> 0:53:06.560 My four day. 0:53:06.560 --> 0:53:06.950 Week? 0:53:08.739 --> 0:53:10.900 Well, I had a sleep in this morning. 0:53:11.980 --> 0:53:12.850 Okay, good. 0:53:15.040 --> 0:53:21.189 That. And I'm going to take those sleeping on a workday. Outrageous. 0:53:21.190 --> 0:53:24.280 But I'm going to take it as as part of 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:29.130 my overall. Drive for a four day week. It's those 0:53:29.130 --> 0:53:34.350 little 1% changes and I'm going to work insane hours 0:53:34.350 --> 0:53:36.090 this week. I just I just know it. 0:53:36.480 --> 0:53:37.470 One of those weeks. 0:53:37.469 --> 0:53:41.310 But I know that I started the week with a 0:53:41.310 --> 0:53:43.890 little bit of a buffer. With a little bit of a. 0:53:46.140 --> 0:53:50.270 I don't know. It's like almost just for my mental health, almost. 0:53:50.510 --> 0:53:53.840 So if that gives you that 1% white space. 0:53:53.840 --> 0:53:54.500 Exactly. 0:53:54.500 --> 0:53:59.300 In your head, in your. You know, your emotional. 0:53:59.300 --> 0:54:00.669 Margin. Yeah. Yeah. 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:04.520 If it gives you that, then that might make a 0:54:04.520 --> 0:54:09.050 difference in how you approach that meeting or this recording 0:54:09.050 --> 0:54:11.450 or that report that you've got to write, you know. 0:54:12.140 --> 0:54:14.509 It's so it's tricky, I think, for you, particularly because 0:54:14.510 --> 0:54:18.589 you're a solutions guy. You're like, how do I quantify it? Like, 0:54:18.739 --> 0:54:22.340 you can't quantify it. You'll never know whether that 1%, 0:54:22.340 --> 0:54:25.400 that 15 minutes extra that, you know, sitting in bed 0:54:25.400 --> 0:54:28.550 having a coffee together and talking about the day you 0:54:28.550 --> 0:54:31.489 won't ever know whether it makes a difference or not. 0:54:31.489 --> 0:54:33.560 But I think you have to trust that it does. 0:54:34.430 --> 0:54:39.120 And that's not necessarily. Natural to you. 0:54:40.890 --> 0:54:41.969 I have to work at that. 0:54:41.980 --> 0:54:42.420 Yeah. 0:54:43.290 --> 0:54:46.620 We think you do a good job of like, believing 0:54:46.620 --> 0:54:49.469 in it even though you can't see it. It's not 0:54:49.469 --> 0:54:53.129 something that you can see on a spreadsheet or. Yeah. 0:54:54.360 --> 0:54:57.630 So, you know every every month or do a little 0:54:57.630 --> 0:55:01.110 bit more. You know, it's just being aware of it. 0:55:01.110 --> 0:55:06.310 That's half the battle being aware of of. What you're 0:55:06.310 --> 0:55:10.000 working towards and being constantly reminded of, it really helps. 0:55:10.239 --> 0:55:11.920 Does it really helps me. 0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:15.130 It doesn't feel like a pressure. No, no. 0:55:15.760 --> 0:55:18.910 Because you're in the context of 1%, right? Sure. That's 0:55:18.910 --> 0:55:21.430 the key. Yeah. Like 1% improvements. 0:55:21.430 --> 0:55:21.759 Yeah. 0:55:22.030 --> 0:55:29.620 One 1% difference. It's. Yeah, it's. It's the way to go. 0:55:29.640 --> 0:55:30.960 It's revolutionary. 0:55:31.920 --> 0:55:36.140 I dig it. I find it very powerful. Yeah, it's 0:55:36.140 --> 0:55:36.620 been interesting. 0:55:36.620 --> 0:55:37.580 To see something greater. 0:55:37.580 --> 0:55:39.560 There. I'm sure that we can do with. 0:55:39.830 --> 0:55:40.430 The 1%. 0:55:40.430 --> 0:55:42.080 Community. The 1%? 0:55:42.590 --> 0:55:43.190 Yeah. 0:55:45.420 --> 0:55:49.410 I don't. Um. I'd be curious to unpack that with 0:55:49.410 --> 0:55:49.989 you at some point. 0:55:50.010 --> 0:55:50.930 Let's talk about that. 0:55:50.940 --> 0:55:52.590 Not on a podcast. 0:55:54.360 --> 0:55:59.609 I think that's us for the month. Yeah. Just a reminder, 0:55:59.630 --> 0:56:03.410 I'm writing really regularly over on the Tortoise, which is 0:56:03.410 --> 0:56:07.640 my new home online over on Substack. So again, Brooke 0:56:07.640 --> 0:56:11.150 McAlary Substack is where you will find me. Or you 0:56:11.150 --> 0:56:14.299 can just Google the tortoise and it will. It will 0:56:14.300 --> 0:56:18.560 show up. I'm writing at least once a week, usually twice. 0:56:18.560 --> 0:56:23.690 And there's some quarterly I'm creating workshops or retreats for 0:56:23.690 --> 0:56:27.590 paying subscribers. So the first one was, as I mentioned, values. 0:56:27.590 --> 0:56:30.500 The most recent one was a rhythms retreat, where I 0:56:30.500 --> 0:56:34.250 took people through the process of creating their own morning 0:56:34.250 --> 0:56:37.940 and evening seasonal rhythms. And the next one, I think, 0:56:37.940 --> 0:56:43.190 will be about writing as self-care, but that won't be 0:56:43.190 --> 0:56:46.850 for a couple of months. So. Okay. Yeah. If you're interested, 0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:49.730 make sure. Yeah, journaling will be part of it. Yeah, 0:56:49.880 --> 0:56:51.890 journey journaling will be part of it. It's actually a 0:56:51.890 --> 0:56:54.440 workshop that I devised, an in-person workshop that I was 0:56:54.440 --> 0:56:58.010 going to run last the year before last, but got 0:56:58.010 --> 0:57:02.060 derailed by Covid. Oh, okay. So it's taking elements of that. Cool. 0:57:02.660 --> 0:57:04.400 So if you want to be on the list, make 0:57:04.400 --> 0:57:08.419 sure that you find out about that retreat or want 0:57:08.420 --> 0:57:09.799 to take the other ones, you just head over to 0:57:09.800 --> 0:57:12.319 the tortoise. You can sign up as a free member 0:57:12.320 --> 0:57:14.570 or as a paying member. I'd love to have you. 0:57:23.100 --> 0:57:27.660 Thanks very much for your reviews. Comments on Apple Podcasts. 0:57:27.690 --> 0:57:28.290 Yeah, they're very. 0:57:28.300 --> 0:57:30.750 High and over on the Tortoise. It's just been. 0:57:30.750 --> 0:57:31.680 Great. It's been. 0:57:31.680 --> 0:57:35.460 Amazing. Yeah. Cup filling. You know, one of the things 0:57:35.460 --> 0:57:39.480 that I've wanted for so many years is to develop 0:57:39.480 --> 0:57:44.790 community around this kind of space in these conversations. And 0:57:44.790 --> 0:57:47.880 I feel like finally that's happening. 0:57:48.030 --> 0:57:49.500 You know, kind of locking that in. 0:57:49.500 --> 0:57:53.340 Yeah, just the way that the, the platform over at 0:57:53.340 --> 0:57:57.180 Substack is developed and the way that we're using it 0:57:57.180 --> 0:57:59.580 as a community. And just to start to see those 0:57:59.580 --> 0:58:06.150 interactions between people is so heartwarming. And I feel like 0:58:06.150 --> 0:58:10.470 we're starting to really get there towards that, that hard 0:58:10.470 --> 0:58:14.460 to quantify goal that I've had around community. So yeah, 0:58:14.460 --> 0:58:16.710 please do check it out. It's a really wonderful group 0:58:16.710 --> 0:58:18.900 of people and would love to have you there. Thank 0:58:18.900 --> 0:58:22.050 you obviously for those reviews as well because we have 0:58:22.050 --> 0:58:27.450 read through all of the recent ones and I've been 0:58:27.450 --> 0:58:30.870 really moved by them actually. They've been really wonderful. So 0:58:30.870 --> 0:58:34.560 thank you for taking the time to do that. Thank you, Ben. 0:58:35.220 --> 0:58:37.560 Thank you. Pleasure, my darling. 0:58:38.280 --> 0:58:42.210 And until we are in your ears again, take good 0:58:42.210 --> 0:58:43.980 care and we'll see you soon. 0:58:45.390 --> 0:58:47.070 I just saluted the microphone. 0:58:47.250 --> 0:58:49.950 No one could say that, but I appreciated it. Yeah. 0:58:50.100 --> 0:58:50.580 Bye.