1 00:00:00,660 --> 00:00:04,590 Voiceover: Welcome to sleep talk. The podcast about all things sleep 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:09,330 Voiceover: brought to you by sleephub.com.au. Here are your hosts Dr. 3 00:00:09,330 --> 00:00:12,140 Voiceover: David Cunnington and Dr. Moira Junge. 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,320 Dr Moira Junge: So welcome to this special episode of the Sleep Talk podcast. 5 00:00:16,470 --> 00:00:17,230 Dr Moira Junge: Welcome Moira. 6 00:00:17,260 --> 00:00:21,389 Dr Moira Junge: Hello Dave. A really good idea to just have this quick one off episode to 7 00:00:21,390 --> 00:00:23,820 Dr Moira Junge: get some messages out there about those that aren't sleeping 8 00:00:23,820 --> 00:00:25,290 Dr Moira Junge: well which is probably the most of the world at 9 00:00:25,290 --> 00:00:26,050 Dr Moira Junge: the moment. 10 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:28,950 Dr David Cunnington: So the circumstances we find ourselves in are unfortunate but 11 00:00:28,950 --> 00:00:31,320 Dr David Cunnington: we thought it was important to try and give people 12 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,480 Dr David Cunnington: some strategies to help with sleep during these difficult times. 13 00:00:35,490 --> 00:00:37,769 Dr David Cunnington: One of the key points we wanted to emphasize is 14 00:00:37,770 --> 00:00:41,220 Dr David Cunnington: that our daytime lives are markedly different. It's been totally 15 00:00:41,220 --> 00:00:43,320 Dr David Cunnington: thrown upside down in what we're allowed to do during 16 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,710 Dr David Cunnington: the day. So really we should expect that nighttime and 17 00:00:46,710 --> 00:00:49,529 Dr David Cunnington: sleep is also going to be different. It's a very 18 00:00:49,530 --> 00:00:51,989 Dr David Cunnington: stressful time. So it's also important to make sure we 19 00:00:51,990 --> 00:00:55,890 Dr David Cunnington: look after ourselves both physically and mentally. We've experienced this 20 00:00:55,890 --> 00:00:58,650 Dr David Cunnington: personally over the last week feeling anxious and finding sleep's 21 00:00:58,650 --> 00:01:02,070 Dr David Cunnington: changed but have been able to manage our symptoms. I've 22 00:01:02,070 --> 00:01:04,470 Dr David Cunnington: been waking up a bit earlier. It's a natural tendency 23 00:01:04,470 --> 00:01:07,440 Dr David Cunnington: of mine anyway but it does get earlier again when 24 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:11,369 Dr David Cunnington: I'm a bit stressed or anxious. Cycling's my thing. If I'm 25 00:01:11,370 --> 00:01:13,530 Dr David Cunnington: feeling a bit stressed or anxious spending some time on 26 00:01:13,530 --> 00:01:15,990 Dr David Cunnington: a bike and fortunately I've got an indoor bike set 27 00:01:15,990 --> 00:01:19,980 Dr David Cunnington: up so I can do that whilst maintaining social distancing. 28 00:01:20,069 --> 00:01:22,830 Dr David Cunnington: It's been helpful. So although I've been waking early I've been 29 00:01:22,830 --> 00:01:25,010 Dr David Cunnington: fitting in a cycling session before work and I found 30 00:01:25,010 --> 00:01:28,740 Dr David Cunnington: that pretty helpful. I've also selected a couple of books 31 00:01:28,830 --> 00:01:32,430 Dr David Cunnington: to read that deliberately aren't work or virus related. What about 32 00:01:32,430 --> 00:01:33,090 Dr David Cunnington: you Moira? 33 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,780 Dr Moira Junge: It's a devastating time. There's the worry about the virus. 34 00:01:36,810 --> 00:01:38,850 Dr Moira Junge: There's also that fear of keeping yourself safe and your 35 00:01:38,850 --> 00:01:41,970 Dr Moira Junge: family safe. Am I being cautious enough? Those sorts of fears. 36 00:01:42,330 --> 00:01:45,000 Dr Moira Junge: But of course there's the worry and the sadness about 37 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,460 Dr Moira Junge: the deadly economic and social consequences. The change is so rapid. 38 00:01:48,460 --> 00:01:52,110 Dr Moira Junge: There's so much uncertainty. So I haven't actually been sleeping 39 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:55,910 Dr Moira Junge: very well. In the first maybe say a week ago and 40 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,550 Dr Moira Junge: I've managed to get things back on track. 41 00:01:58,680 --> 00:01:59,490 Dr David Cunnington: So what did you do? 42 00:01:59,820 --> 00:02:03,030 Dr Moira Junge: Isn't it great that a physician, not that I'm a physician, 43 00:02:03,060 --> 00:02:06,330 Dr Moira Junge: but physician heal thyself. I actually just had to take 44 00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:12,150 Dr Moira Junge: my medicine and put into practice the CBT-I principles that 45 00:02:12,150 --> 00:02:15,660 Dr Moira Junge: I've taught for many many many years now. We've actually 46 00:02:15,660 --> 00:02:18,400 Dr Moira Junge: just developed a new Sleep Health Foundation fact sheet that's 47 00:02:18,450 --> 00:02:20,550 Dr Moira Junge: available now. We'll put the link to that in our 48 00:02:20,550 --> 00:02:24,389 Dr Moira Junge: show notes that outlines basically what I did. Do you want me to tell you what I did? 49 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:27,079 Dr David Cunnington: Absolutely. 50 00:02:27,150 --> 00:02:28,740 Dr Moira Junge: One of the most important things for me was to 51 00:02:28,740 --> 00:02:33,060 Dr Moira Junge: limit my media exposure because I'm just devouring the media exposure about COVID-19. 52 00:02:35,580 --> 00:02:37,650 Dr Moira Junge: Because as a business owner, as a parent, as a 53 00:02:37,650 --> 00:02:39,950 Dr Moira Junge: concerned citizen, I really want to be up to date 54 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,090 Dr Moira Junge: but I realize that I have to really limit that 55 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:45,360 Dr Moira Junge: and only go to the official sites. So I actually 56 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,700 Dr Moira Junge: recommend the www.health.gov.au because the rest of the media reports 57 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:54,240 Dr Moira Junge: are just too conflicting. Have you noticed, it's just too conflicting and there's just too 58 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,780 Dr Moira Junge: much uncertainty. So for me I just have to go 59 00:02:57,780 --> 00:03:01,690 Dr Moira Junge: with what the actual requirements and guidelines are right now today. 60 00:03:01,770 --> 00:03:04,260 Dr Moira Junge: The other thing I found really important that I've taught 61 00:03:04,290 --> 00:03:06,209 Dr Moira Junge: all my life and realize how much I needed to 62 00:03:06,210 --> 00:03:09,690 Dr Moira Junge: do it myself is unwinding. So spending that time relaxing 63 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,100 Dr Moira Junge: doing other things other than looking at COVID-19 reports. Also 64 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:15,810 Dr Moira Junge: I thought was super important to keep up my fitness 65 00:03:16,220 --> 00:03:18,180 Dr Moira Junge: and I've got my whole family onto that too that 66 00:03:18,180 --> 00:03:21,750 Dr Moira Junge: we are really clear about our exercise every day and 67 00:03:21,750 --> 00:03:25,530 Dr Moira Junge: eating sensibly. There's nothing open anyway so there's no need 68 00:03:25,530 --> 00:03:28,650 Dr Moira Junge: to be drinking too much, so we're actually just really really 69 00:03:28,940 --> 00:03:32,340 Dr Moira Junge: white hot onto the three pillars of health of exercise, 70 00:03:32,340 --> 00:03:36,060 Dr Moira Junge: our diet our sleep. Just prioritizing those three things to 71 00:03:36,060 --> 00:03:39,090 Dr Moira Junge: keep our immune system healthy but also to keep our mental 72 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,330 Dr Moira Junge: health functioning well because there's a lot of angst in 73 00:03:42,340 --> 00:03:46,350 Dr Moira Junge: our household like around the world. I also have really 74 00:03:46,350 --> 00:03:49,650 Dr Moira Junge: got into making myself remind myself of the importance of 75 00:03:49,650 --> 00:03:52,740 Dr Moira Junge: meditation and I can't stress that enough. To me it's 76 00:03:52,740 --> 00:03:55,620 Dr Moira Junge: like the insulin for the diabetic at this time. I 77 00:03:55,620 --> 00:03:58,170 Dr Moira Junge: just have to fall back and lean into my meditation 78 00:03:58,170 --> 00:04:00,300 Dr Moira Junge: to actually make sure that I keep my levels of 79 00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:03,360 Dr Moira Junge: hyper arousal reasonable and make sure that I don't go 80 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,630 Dr Moira Junge: over that threshold to sleep poorly. I really need my 81 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:07,740 Dr Moira Junge: sleep more than ever. 82 00:04:07,770 --> 00:04:09,960 Dr David Cunnington: It's a really good point about the meditation and I've 83 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,360 Dr David Cunnington: been a bit more proactive about that as well because 84 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,420 Dr David Cunnington: often if people aren't sleeping well they'll conceptualize it as 85 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:17,610 Dr David Cunnington: 'the answer is I'm going to fix this by doing 86 00:04:17,610 --> 00:04:20,970 Dr David Cunnington: something about sleep' but in stressful times like this the 87 00:04:20,970 --> 00:04:24,330 Dr David Cunnington: answer is more about self care and managing worries during 88 00:04:24,330 --> 00:04:29,010 Dr David Cunnington: the day. So really important to be proactive about managing 89 00:04:29,010 --> 00:04:31,920 Dr David Cunnington: worries throughout the day and there's a lot to worry about. 90 00:04:31,950 --> 00:04:34,560 Dr David Cunnington: People are also going to sleep shorter because that's actually 91 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,890 Dr David Cunnington: pretty common when we're uncertain of things for adrenaline levels 92 00:04:37,890 --> 00:04:38,730 Dr David Cunnington: to be higher. 93 00:04:38,990 --> 00:04:42,839 Dr Moira Junge: Bed restriction and sleep restriction are core components of CBT-I that we've talked 94 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,940 Dr Moira Junge: about a lot. I made sure that I practice it myself. 95 00:04:46,060 --> 00:04:48,210 Dr Moira Junge: I had to be realistic about just staying up as 96 00:04:48,210 --> 00:04:51,869 Dr Moira Junge: late as possible with my unwinding period mind you and in 97 00:04:51,870 --> 00:04:55,140 Dr Moira Junge: dim light to make sure that I could actually have 98 00:04:55,140 --> 00:04:58,350 Dr Moira Junge: that higher level of sleep pressure to make sure I 99 00:04:58,350 --> 00:05:01,760 Dr Moira Junge: could initiate and then maintain my sleep better. And if I wasn't 100 00:05:02,029 --> 00:05:04,940 Dr Moira Junge: sleeping well that I did go to another room, waited to be 101 00:05:04,940 --> 00:05:08,330 Dr Moira Junge: tired and sleepy. Did some reading. All the stuff I've taught. 102 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,320 Dr Moira Junge: So glad I actually know how to do this stuff. It turned back 103 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,360 Dr Moira Junge: very quickly within a matter of just a day or two. 104 00:05:14,810 --> 00:05:17,390 Dr David Cunnington: And that's what the research shows. Those two techniques sleep 105 00:05:17,390 --> 00:05:22,070 Dr David Cunnington: restriction stimulus control are really powerful strategies for getting sleep back 106 00:05:22,070 --> 00:05:25,620 Dr David Cunnington: on track by changing behavior around sleep. 107 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,529 Dr Moira Junge: It really helps build that empathy as well. You really 108 00:05:30,529 --> 00:05:33,200 Dr Moira Junge: need to understand how bad it can be for people 109 00:05:33,750 --> 00:05:36,230 Dr Moira Junge: and just to really understand t his is the strategy 110 00:05:36,230 --> 00:05:39,830 Dr Moira Junge: I'm going to do. It's so important when you are 111 00:05:39,830 --> 00:05:44,780 Dr Moira Junge: out of the bed waiting to be sleepy and tired that you are in dim light and you 112 00:05:44,779 --> 00:05:48,050 Dr Moira Junge: don't monitor the clock. It's very important. Just do not 113 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,529 Dr Moira Junge: even buy into what time it might be and what 114 00:05:50,529 --> 00:05:55,460 Dr Moira Junge: you what you are missing or calculating all that sort of stuff. The final 115 00:05:55,460 --> 00:05:57,560 Dr Moira Junge: point I wanted to make was that it's really important 116 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,479 Dr Moira Junge: to manage your fatigue. Even I didn't get much sleep it 117 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:05,370 Dr Moira Junge: doesn't mean that it is the end of the world or mean I wouldn't be able to function well the next day. 118 00:06:05,540 --> 00:06:08,450 Dr Moira Junge: I've been making the use of having little naps if 119 00:06:08,450 --> 00:06:10,520 Dr Moira Junge: I needed to and even though I had a coffee, 120 00:06:10,730 --> 00:06:16,460 Dr Moira Junge: actually having appropriately timed caffeine to help manage my sleepiness 121 00:06:16,460 --> 00:06:19,970 Dr Moira Junge: and my energy levels. So that was really important. I 122 00:06:19,970 --> 00:06:25,370 Dr Moira Junge: also have been right on to following my psychological society's 123 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,000 Dr Moira Junge: fact sheets on things like how to manage distress in 124 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:31,790 Dr Moira Junge: the time of coronavirus and also Beyond Blue which is our 125 00:06:32,450 --> 00:06:35,750 Dr Moira Junge: leading national advocate on mental health. They've got good resources on mental health and we'll put 126 00:06:35,750 --> 00:06:36,830 Dr Moira Junge: both those resources in the show notes. 127 00:06:38,270 --> 00:06:40,430 Dr David Cunnington: Thanks for that discussion Moira. Just to try and tie 128 00:06:40,430 --> 00:06:43,010 Dr David Cunnington: things together. The key points for people who are having 129 00:06:43,010 --> 00:06:46,130 Dr David Cunnington: trouble with sleep for me is expect sleep to be 130 00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:49,430 Dr David Cunnington: different. Our day times are very different. This is a very 131 00:06:49,430 --> 00:06:52,580 Dr David Cunnington: uncertain time and we're all going to be feeling somewhat anxious. 132 00:06:52,610 --> 00:06:55,460 Dr David Cunnington: So in those circumstances expect sleep to be shorter, to 133 00:06:55,460 --> 00:06:58,580 Dr David Cunnington: be waking more, for sleep to be lighter and change 134 00:06:58,580 --> 00:07:01,669 Dr David Cunnington: your behavior accordingly maybe by going to bed later. Not 135 00:07:01,670 --> 00:07:03,800 Dr David Cunnington: be so concerned if you wait during the night and 136 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:05,630 Dr David Cunnington: if you do wait during the night don't be afraid 137 00:07:05,630 --> 00:07:08,120 Dr David Cunnington: of getting up doing something else until you feel sleepy 138 00:07:08,450 --> 00:07:10,150 Dr David Cunnington: before you go back to bed. What about for you Moira? 139 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:14,610 Dr Moira Junge: I think the overall management of your self care, your 140 00:07:14,630 --> 00:07:17,100 Dr Moira Junge: stress management is really important and I think that the 141 00:07:17,330 --> 00:07:20,300 Dr Moira Junge: keeping the three pillars in check making sure you do 142 00:07:20,300 --> 00:07:23,600 Dr Moira Junge: have plenty of exercise and that you're eating well and 143 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,989 Dr Moira Junge: that you are prioritizing sleep at least allowing time for 144 00:07:26,990 --> 00:07:29,870 Dr Moira Junge: sleep and rest in this sort of uncertain time. I 145 00:07:29,870 --> 00:07:32,270 Dr Moira Junge: think these are the key things that will help bring 146 00:07:32,270 --> 00:07:35,850 Dr Moira Junge: people back on track to actually just improve their sleep. 147 00:07:36,110 --> 00:07:39,020 Dr David Cunnington: If you are having trouble with sleep despite accessing the 148 00:07:39,020 --> 00:07:41,840 Dr David Cunnington: good resources like the Sleep Health Foundation fact sheet that 149 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,680 Dr David Cunnington: we'll link to, remember that healthcare providers are still working 150 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,310 Dr David Cunnington: during this time and are available. Providers like myself and 151 00:07:49,310 --> 00:07:52,850 Dr David Cunnington: Moira have worked very hard to shift our consultation services 152 00:07:52,850 --> 00:07:56,240 Dr David Cunnington: online so that we're available for people throughout this period, 153 00:07:56,510 --> 00:07:58,760 Dr David Cunnington: which is going to be a challenging period and cause 154 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,580 Dr David Cunnington: changes with sleep for many people. Thanks very much for 155 00:08:01,580 --> 00:08:04,400 Dr David Cunnington: your insights Moira and for contributing to this episode. 156 00:08:04,610 --> 00:08:06,950 Dr Moira Junge: Thank you very much Dave. Thanks for organizing it so 157 00:08:06,950 --> 00:08:09,350 Dr Moira Junge: promptly and I just want to say just best wishes 158 00:08:09,350 --> 00:08:10,240 Dr Moira Junge: to everyone. 159 00:08:10,250 --> 00:08:10,610 Dr David Cunnington: Thanks a lot. 160 00:08:10,820 --> 00:08:13,580 Voiceover: This podcast is not intended as a substitute for your 161 00:08:13,580 --> 00:08:18,050 Voiceover: own independent health professionals advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek 162 00:08:18,050 --> 00:08:21,170 Voiceover: the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider 163 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,440 Voiceover: within your country or place of residency with any questions 164 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,630 Voiceover: you may have regarding a medical condition.