S1: Every week. Hillsdale College President Larry Arnn joins Hugh Hewitt
S1: to discuss great books, great men, and great ideas. This
S1: is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network.
S1: More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find your audio.
S2: Morning glory and evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That
S2: music means it's time for the Hillsdale Dialogue. Welcome to
S2: the last broadcast hour of the week. My guest is
S2: Doctor Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College. He joins me
S2: each Friday, either to look very far back or just
S2: even a week back. In this case, we're looking at
S2: recent news, what's been going on in the news recently.
S2: Doctor Ian welcome. I hope you are having a an
S2: excellent summer and that the kids haven't come back to
S2: school yet. So you're still enjoying yourself, am I right
S2: about that?
S3: Well, we have to work in the summer. But it
S3: is true that the 1650 variables are not on the campus.
S3: And so it's a different kind of work in some ways.
S2: Are the teachers there? Because most summers there are teachers
S2: courses convening at Hillsdale?
S3: Yeah. We have a lot of people come to the campus.
S3: We had 1500 K through 12 teachers. We have hostels
S3: and they're always full, and there's seven of them, I
S3: think this summer in the last week. And, you know,
S3: hundreds of people come. Yeah. It's a it's a busy place,
S3: very busy.
S2: And and the construction I like to get the construction update.
S2: Are we closing in?
S3: No. Well, the we're about a year away on the library,
S3: but now it looks like a, a a library. It's
S3: going to be impressive. And it's you know, it's if
S3: you learn about construction, the early stages of construction are
S3: demoralizing to people. We had a hard winter last winter
S3: in the quad. The North quad was all torn up,
S3: but now it's looking imposing. And, uh, so it's, you know,
S3: it's going to be really great, but it takes a while. Uh,
S3: we've just finalized the design of a war memorial that
S3: we're putting directly across the quad from the library to
S3: memorialize our country and our war dead, which are numerous
S3: through our long history. And, uh, we're going to, we're
S3: starting work on a visitor center pretty soon. So it's
S3: going to be a picture. But, uh, right now it's
S3: not a fully complete picture.
S2: Well, I raised the construction question because first segment of
S2: this Week in Review and we're taping on Tuesday for
S2: a Friday broadcast. So there could be things that happen
S2: after the program tapes before it airs. We're in a
S2: pause when we're talking in our battle with Iran. And
S2: the last 13 days before the last three days, heavy
S2: bombing of sites. And you know what it's like to rebuild.
S2: I am a little skeptical of our legacy news media saying, oh,
S2: they've rebuilt everything. They're doing great. Aren't you skeptical of
S2: those stories that, you know, construction?
S3: Yeah, sure. It, um, you know, you know, what do I.
S3: So first of all, they're resilient, right? I thought they
S3: would be. I think this thing is very hard. I
S3: think it's part of a great world contest that's going
S3: on intensely now and will go on, in my opinion,
S3: for a long time. But we've heard him pretty bad, too.
S3: They don't have as many allies as they used to have.
S3: Their capacity is degraded, although apparently not removed, and they've
S3: got Russia and China to help them. And so they
S3: will tend to come back. And, uh, when and whether
S3: a final end to our problems with Iran will come.
S3: It's hard to say, but the problems existed before the war.
S3: And at some point they're going to be acute in
S3: the future if and they are acute now.
S2: So in.
S3: Your.
S2: 20 plus years as leading Hillsdale, have you drawn many
S2: students from the Persian diaspora heavily located in Southern California,
S2: but it's also throughout the United States? Have you had
S2: a lot of Persians who fled the country after the
S2: revolution of 79?
S3: The answer is a few. Not a lot. We're pretty
S3: full and we don't really recruit abroad a lot. Although
S3: our numbers of foreign students have been swelling lately. Swelling
S3: doesn't mean a big number, but it's probably tripled to
S3: maybe 60 kids or something like that. And we didn't
S3: really make any particular effort about that. We seem to
S3: be getting known. And so yeah. And and, you know,
S3: if you if you come to Hillsdale College, you have
S3: to make a bunch of commitments and you're aware that
S3: you're going to undergo a torture that applies equally to everyone.
S3: So that tends to collapse the differences among our students
S3: in in Persian.
S2: American.
S3: You.
S2: Know, diaspora in LA, very achievement oriented, lots of doctors,
S2: lots of lawyers, lots of people who excel in business.
S2: I just thought they would be showing up. I had
S2: one of your own on This Week, Philip Wegman, now
S2: ace reporter for The Wall Street Journal. You're taking over slowly.
S2: Major media outlets. John Miller is doing a fine job there.
S2: I'm not surprised. But are you are you happy with that?
S2: Do you want Hillsdale to own the media too?
S3: Yeah. If nothing else, to be able to to hope
S3: that it will shut up. It's no, it it yeah. We've, uh,
S3: you know, there's your, your, your buddy Jack Butler, my
S3: graduate is important at the Wall Street Journal, I think. Yes.
S3: Nine working there now. Yeah. And they get around and they,
S3: you know, the reports of them are they know a
S3: lot and they're used to working hard. And, uh, I
S3: had a former general editor of the Wall Street Journal
S3: come to see me one day. He's retired now. And, uh,
S3: he was on the campus and he paid a courtesy
S3: call on the president's office. And I said, what are
S3: you doing here? And he said, I came to get
S3: some kids. And I said, uh, good. And he said,
S3: here's a different. And I said, how? And he said, well,
S3: what we do in journalism is look at the facts,
S3: and we're not as good at that as we used
S3: to be. But your kids learn to look at things
S3: and try to see them as they are, rather than
S3: impose their theories on them. So yeah, it makes good
S3: journalists get a good education.
S2: And learn how to write along the way. Let me
S2: talk to you and go back to the the war
S2: with Iran. There are immediately after I'm done talking with
S2: you today, I'm going to talk to one of your fellows,
S2: Victor Davis Hanson, historian extraordinaire, and put to him this question.
S2: The 1930s took a while for people to realize Churchill
S2: before anyone else, that the world was dividing into camps,
S2: and it took the United States getting hit at Pearl
S2: Harbor to actually join the good guys and the Soviet Union,
S2: get double cross to join the good guy. And that
S2: war went on for for six years after that. It
S2: took a couple of years for it to become clear
S2: that there was a Soviet Union, the Warsaw Pact and
S2: China for a while, and their allies and the West
S2: and our allies and an online movement. Now, it seems
S2: to me it's become very clear that it's China, Russia,
S2: North Korea and Iran, a couple of proxies like the
S2: Houthis and the Hamas and Hezbollah, and then all the
S2: rest of the world has to pick up sides and
S2: Venezuela pick wrong. Now they're on our team. Cuba picked wrong,
S2: and they're they're out of power. Is it that stark
S2: in your mind, Doctor Oren?
S3: Oh, yeah. Yeah it is. And the reason for that
S3: is China too is proving resilient. I mean we you
S3: know it's the trouble. The hard thing about the about
S3: predictions is that they have to do with the future.
S3: But China has gained in strength consistently now for a generation.
S3: And they're assertive and they're all over the world and
S3: they're you know, the thing that I worry about the
S3: most is that we're studying the Second World War in
S3: our long term view right now. And our contribution to,
S3: to winning that war was simply decisive. And it had
S3: very much to do with manufacturing. The reason the Russians
S3: did so well against the Germans in the East and
S3: built what was then the biggest and probably greatest military
S3: of the age, was that they moved in trucks And
S3: those trucks were made in Detroit. And the German army,
S3: right through the Second World War was mostly a horse
S3: drawn army, and they just couldn't keep up. And when
S3: they confronted us on the Western Front after the Normandy invasions,
S3: they couldn't quite, you know, they were staggered by the
S3: speed of it. And the reason is it was moving
S3: in machines. Now, China has greater manufacturing power than we
S3: have now, and the administration is working on that and
S3: trying to build that back up. And there's progress. But
S3: we're not the world's greatest manufacturing power anymore, although maybe
S3: still the most sophisticated one hopes.
S2: So how far along do you think the Clarity Index
S2: is in the minds of most Americans? Because when you
S2: and I were young, there was a Soviet Union and
S2: they were the bad guys in the Warsaw Pact was
S2: on their side, and China was on their side. And
S2: it was very clear. We have a minute to the break.
S2: How clear is the division in the world today in
S2: the mind of people coming back to campus in a
S2: few weeks at Hillsdale.
S3: Well, I think everybody knows it. Yeah. And, you know,
S3: there's another thing that's like the 1930s is America is
S3: angst ridden and it probably worse than it was in
S3: the 1930s, although it's hard to measure. And their angst
S3: came from the First World War and the terrible nature
S3: of that war and the fact that it sort of
S3: changed everybody's thinking about the past and the future. Well,
S3: we have things like that going on in our country
S3: that are very serious, and we're worried about them. Right.
S2: Doctor, I want to go back to the Iraq war.
S2: There are three results, broadly speaking. And I'll ask this
S2: as well. We can win. I think I know what
S2: that looks like. They capitulate or the regime collapses. They
S2: agree to simply non-belligerent status and to leave Israel and
S2: our friends in the Gulf alone. And the strait is
S2: open or we lose. And that means the strait is
S2: closed and we can't open it, or we're going to
S2: have a long, drawn out blockade to wait for them
S2: to collapse. Of those three options, what do you think
S2: is going to happen?
S3: Well, first of all, I don't think that we're nearing
S3: a end of our problems with Iran. Uh, I think
S3: that it's probable that they will be better in the
S3: intermediate future than they have been, because I think they're weaker.
S3: And I think that we're organized about them. We've put
S3: we've put together a coalition. Like one of the most
S3: promising things to come out of this war is that
S3: we've got a bunch of allies in those Arab states. And, uh,
S3: they're very worried about Iran. Some of them have attacked Iran,
S3: which they were very reluctant to do in previous times.
S3: And so there's a clarity there that is healthy. On
S3: the other hand, It's a despotic state, and they have
S3: used torture. And there are ten, probably tens of thousands
S3: of them who impose the state. And so that's not
S3: going to get overturned tomorrow, probably. And as long as
S3: they're there, they're a problem. And and so I don't
S3: expect us to settle this soon. And I even I,
S3: I thought you people may remember I said on the
S3: show at the outset, the idea that we're just going
S3: to do them in right now is optimistic. Probably not.
S3: But if we can restrain them. I'll mention two articles
S3: that suggest strategic thoughts. One was an account of the
S3: Trump foreign policy, which was he was trying to restrain
S3: our enemies. He's not trying to liberalize them. He's not
S3: trying to turn them into democracies, which are infinite tasks.
S3: He's trying to restrain them. If you see this war
S3: in that context, you'd think that he's had some success
S3: and they're hard to restrain, and we don't have complete
S3: success yet. Uh, the second one is, is about a
S3: concept called strategic interdiction. How do you figure out how
S3: to hurt them so that their essential capacities to do
S3: you harm are compromised? And this article that I read
S3: claimed that the Israelis thought better about that than we do.
S3: But Trump has done some cool things here. The current
S3: cease fire and God knows how long it'll last. That
S3: comes from him saying, okay, every time you take out
S3: a freighter, we're going to take out a power plant.
S2: Yes.
S3: The blockade. Our blockade was an act of genius. Now
S3: it imposes cost on the world economy that we don't want. Right.
S3: I looked this morning. I think oil is selling about
S3: $80 a barrel, and that's pretty good. And, um, you know,
S3: if it goes to 200, that'll be really bad for
S3: the world economy and us. And I think I made
S3: the point earlier that we are the world's largest exporter
S3: of oil, but we're also the world's largest importer of oil,
S3: because there are some kinds and some refining capacities that
S3: we don't have. And that means that we have a
S3: net advantage. But the world market for oil is terribly
S3: significant to us as it is to everyone. So yeah,
S3: that's these problems are deeply rooted and they're not going
S3: to go away tomorrow. China is a powerful country and
S3: it's a despotism. And Russia is a powerful country. How
S3: powerful is controversial but powerful for sure. And it has
S3: an old habit of putting up with too much out
S3: of its government. Whatever problem it is, it's likely to persist.
S3: So that's going to go on, I think. And I
S3: think we have to accommodate ourselves to that world. And
S3: another thing people should remember is economies when they're free.
S3: And the world economy has a lot of freedom in it.
S3: Not enough for my taste, but a lot. And when
S3: they're free, they adjust, right? And there are huge adjustments
S3: underway right now. Major pipeline built so that you don't
S3: have to go through the Strait of Hormuz to get
S3: some of the Gulf oil out that's underway that they're
S3: building that now. So that'll change things, right? And there'll
S3: still be problems when those are changed. But if we
S3: are adaptable and run our affairs well and don't spend
S3: our seed corn on government waste, which is a chronic problem,
S3: then we can be a strong nation for a long time,
S3: which we very much need to be.
S2: And our mutual friend, Dennis Prager, has always said clarity
S2: before agreement. And I think things are becoming very clear.
S2: Israel has always had great clarity about Iran, but things
S2: are becoming very clear for the Gulf Arabs, including Kuwait
S2: and Saudi Arabia and Jordan and Bahrain. I think UAE
S2: always had a good vision of what was going on
S2: in Iran. I think that's a positive, an enormous benefit
S2: to the West. Do you agree with that?
S3: Yeah. We need you know, I mean, look, it's just
S3: the case that we need allies and we need them
S3: to contribute at least as much as we contribute. And
S3: so those are important accretions of strength. And, uh, that's
S3: you got to salute that.
S2: And are you shocked how shallow is the root system
S2: in NATO? My last question in this segment, we'll go
S2: to Ukraine and Israel in the third segment. But what
S2: about NATO? I'm just amazed at how little they've done,
S2: how weak they've become.
S3: Well, European countries are in a trauma, right? It's I
S3: was in England last month and it's you know, they're
S3: on their seventh prime minister in ten years, and this
S3: guy is pretty laughed and seems vigorous. The last guy didn't.
S3: But they're not spending the money to defend themselves. And
S3: it's not just the money. Remember, it's a culture. We're
S3: going to read about that when we go back to Churchill,
S3: because of the passages we're going to take up in
S3: the final, our finest hour have much to do with that.
S3: It depends on, you know, war is great trial, a
S3: national trial. And what is the national will and unity
S3: and how well can they. And see they they don't
S3: have that right now. Now, the surging parties in Europe
S3: are all. They would all diminish the European Union in
S3: its power. They would get control of immigration and they
S3: would go down a new track. And the Tories in England,
S3: which they pride themselves being the largest political party in
S3: in the world. Kemi Badenoch is the leader of the Tories.
S3: My wife likes her and she is not going to
S3: let anybody run. Who's for net zero?
S2: I'm taping this show with Doctor Larry Arnn of Hillsdale
S2: College on Tuesday, when both President Zelensky of Ukraine and
S2: Prime Minister Netanyahu of Israel are at the white House,
S2: they've met with President Trump by the time we've begun this.
S2: And the funeral service is underway for Lindsey Graham, which
S2: we'll talk about in the next segment. I am curious, doctor,
S2: at the very beginning of the Russian invasion of Ukraine,
S2: you said on this program, sometimes there's a figure appears
S2: in history that is unanticipated who's able to rally a country.
S2: And that was Zelensky. And boy, he's held it together
S2: for a number of years. A lot of critics of
S2: him in the West, but they're still standing and they're
S2: doing more than standing. They're fighting back. And now they're
S2: making a million drones a year, and they're providing drones
S2: to our Gulf allies, and they're fighting on. Meanwhile, Israel
S2: has been flying wing to wing with the United States.
S2: This is a fundamental difference from February, when this war
S2: began with Iran, or at least the current phase of
S2: the war began. How do you assess those two countries
S2: as allies? Well.
S3: The big the first question about an ally is are
S3: they on your side? And the second question is, can
S3: they contribute? And Ukraine is just a marvel, right? I
S3: was with some military guys at a camp last week,
S3: and one of them commented that Ukraine is building more
S3: drones in a month than we have in our arsenal. Ukraine? Yup.
S3: Little Ukraine. And, you know, they're striking Moscow and they've
S3: basically eliminated or what, neutered the Russian fleet in the
S3: Black Sea, which is part of the pride of Russian
S3: military power going back to the 18th century when they
S3: got control of Crimea. So they've just done marvels, right? And,
S3: you know, Trump likes a winner. And and, uh, you
S3: know that it matters. Your allies, you need them to help.
S3: And so these guys are pretty strong and, uh, good
S3: on them. And the Israelis, too. We've known for a
S3: long time they can fight and they have fought very
S3: well alongside us. And so they're those are valuable. Right.
S3: And if you if you look at what NATO has,
S3: you know, if if I'm right, that, you know, I mean,
S3: I'm writing something about this right now. If God gives
S3: me time, I'll finish it. And, uh, I was asked
S3: to give a talk about, uh, standing on the shoulders
S3: of giants George Washington and Winston Churchill and the Anglo
S3: American Alliance. I didn't make up the title, and I
S3: thought the title was funny because the effect of George
S3: Washington on the Anglo-American alliance and the effects of Winston
S3: Churchill were precisely opposite. Yes. And. And so what have
S3: those guys in common? Well, come to find out, they
S3: have a very great deal in common. Winston Churchill will
S3: see evidence of it in these chapters that we're going
S3: to read next week from Finest Hour. Churchill didn't believe
S3: in making commitments except in the interest of his country
S3: and commitments that were calculated to be able to perform
S3: and make the country stronger. And that's George Washington, too. And,
S3: you know, Churchill became, you know, a great builder of
S3: grand global alliances. And George Washington never did that. He
S3: stayed out of the war between France, which was vital
S3: to our revolution, and England, which was the enemy in
S3: our revolution. He stayed out of the thing. Some wanted
S3: to join France, some wanted to go join England. He
S3: wanted out. So he was neutral. Well, you have to
S3: account for the world being different, right? The world is.
S3: We are now subject to immediate attack, and technology has
S3: changed in ways that make the world dangerous immediately to
S3: us that it was not before. I mean, in the
S3: First World War, there was no power that could sail
S3: a fleet across the Pacific and do serious damage to
S3: an American naval base. And our entry into World War
S3: Two was provoked by the destruction of Pearl Harbor. That's
S3: because aircraft carriers. And so it's you know, we need allies.
S3: And we've got some. And they're helping out. And Europe
S3: needs to get its house in order. One of the
S3: themes of this administration has been you've got to get
S3: your house in order here. I think J.D. Vance, his
S3: finest hour, was a couple of speeches he gave in
S3: Europe about those themes. You should. And it wasn't just.
S3: You needed to build up your military. And remember, that's
S3: not just money, right? That's young people believing in the
S3: country prepared to fight for it. And he said, you
S3: ought to protect people's freedom, too. Why don't you do that?
S2: As I note, at the beginning of the program, I
S2: taped this discussion with Doctor Larry Arnn on the day
S2: that Lindsey Graham was being memorialized at the National Cathedral
S2: after a ceremony in the rotunda. And I just wanted
S2: to ask Doctor Arnn about three things. The the nature
S2: of Lindsey Graham, the nature of the Senate and why
S2: the D. S a want is on record as wanting
S2: to destroy it. And his own state's Senate race in
S2: the primary between Doctor Al Saeed and Congresswoman Haley Stevens.
S2: Let's start with Lindsey. Lindsey Graham, I don't know how
S2: often you cross paths with him. Frequent guest on the
S2: show and and always a hawk. Always funny, always smart.
S2: And I heard a funny story about Lindsay this week,
S2: which is the only thing he feared in life was
S2: being called the former senator Lindsey Graham. Well, what did
S2: you think of Lindsey?
S3: Yeah, well, he has something in common with Donald Trump.
S3: He was a I always found him unpredictable. I mean,
S3: those great themes in his life defend the country. He
S3: was hawkish. And that's partly right. At least it depends
S3: on the circumstances whether that's right or not. He was
S3: usually right, I thought. But he would just come up
S3: with the wildest things, you know, and, uh, he get
S3: mad at Trump and then he'd support him. And, uh,
S3: so he was a nimble, he was galvanizing. And he
S3: had a long, great career in the Senate, which is
S3: a great thing to have.
S2: And the Senate is a unique place. I think it's
S2: unique in the world, actually, for the importance that it
S2: attaches to its members, the significance they have. But they
S2: still have to act as a body. No one individual
S2: matters that much. And the Dsa's attack on the Senate
S2: is really a leveling. It's a bulldozer of one of
S2: our great institutions. I think people should be aware of that,
S2: that they're wreckers of a great institution.
S3: Yeah. Well, you know, the key to have good government
S3: of any kind, free government is the hardest of the kind.
S3: That can be good. You have to have two things.
S3: You have to have the gathering and use of power,
S3: and you have to have the distribution and check power.
S3: And the Senate is a key institution, especially in that
S3: second thing. It you know, there's a lot of debate
S3: about the filibuster. And I have a very consistent record
S3: about that. I'm in favor of it. When they're about
S3: to do something terrible and I'm against it when when
S3: they're preventing from doing something good. But it's, uh, uh,
S3: so it, uh, but the Senate is that and there
S3: is an element like the British House of Commons, is
S3: kind of a herd now. Right. And our Congress, as
S3: a rule. Right. They don't make most of our laws anymore.
S3: And that's a pride. Like you will know that the
S3: constitutional health of America is strong again, when Congress has
S3: authority over all the laws. And right now it makes 20%
S3: of them or something like that.
S2: They're getting closer, though. This court is carving back the
S2: administrative state. It's been over four years that that's unfolded,
S2: but it's getting closer. And I like that. I know
S2: you like that as well. Neil Gorsuch is the one
S2: who said his book was overruled. He said, we don't
S2: know how many agencies are in the federal government from
S2: the Supreme. We can't count them. There's so many of them.
S3: I wrote there's a great, uh, that book I wrote
S3: a review of that book and, uh, it admire almost
S3: everything he's done. There's a couple of things we could name, but, uh,
S3: that book has a story in there about a guy
S3: who lost his fishing boat to, uh. And what he
S3: had was they stopped his boat and weighed his fish,
S3: and he had some number out of thousands under the
S3: right poundage and not enough. And then he went back
S3: to the dock and they weighed him again. And this
S3: time they found a few too many and they took
S3: his boat. And that's just a local decision by a
S3: nameless bureaucrat under laws that are vague and nobody quite
S3: knows what they mean, including the bureaucrat. And then he goes,
S3: you know, eventually, if I remember the story correctly, is
S3: the book opens with this story. I think he died
S3: and his wife kept up the lawsuit and was finally vindicated.
S3: And then Gorsuch makes the point that most people never
S3: get that vindication.
S2: No they don't. So and they're working on that. I'm
S2: I'm glad they are. I want to make sure I
S2: get on Tuesday next. Michigan's going to select someone to
S2: run against Mike Rogers. Now I'm supporting Mike Rogers. Hillsdale
S2: is nonpartisan. But as you look at Haley Stevens, sort
S2: of a traditional left wing Liberal Democrat, and Doctor El-Sayed,
S2: who is a DSA er and a Marxist, in my view, though,
S2: he denies it. Do you think Michigan is all for turning?
S2: Do you think they're really going to go all the
S2: way to the left? They've never been crazy.
S3: Well, you never can tell. It's a non-presidential year. And
S3: so the turnout will be crucial and not as great
S3: as in a presidential year. And so it's hard to
S3: predict what can happen. It's a close race in the
S3: polls at least. And who comes to the polls is vital. I.
S3: If the Democratic Party has any sense in it, it
S3: needs to put a stop to some of this stuff, right.
S3: Because it's very destructive. This this man, I'll say this,
S3: he's a very academic guy. Mom has got some academic
S3: chops right there, highly educated people. And they're strongly of
S3: the left. And they would undo the institutions that have
S3: kept America stable and growing for its history. So if
S3: the Democratic Party's got any sense in it, and it
S3: is a very disciplined party, you know, they've got, I judge,
S3: more central control than the Republicans have. They'll get out
S3: the vote for the other guy. And, you know, and
S3: it's not just a matter of winning the general election.
S3: This stuff is, you know, fundamentally destructive to the country.
S3: And so and it's growing in the Democratic Party. And so.
S2: And, and it's a menace. And it's taken over congressional
S2: seat after congressional seat. I think it'll get turned back
S2: in Maine. I think it'll get turned back in Michigan.
S2: Minnesota will be the third. All things Hillsdale friends@hillsdale.edu. And
S2: in three weeks when we're back or four weeks from
S2: when we're tired, we will review what happened in Michigan
S2: with Doctor Ryan, talk about what it means for the
S2: Democratic Party going forward. All things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu. All of our
S2: dialogues are contained over at hue for hillsdale.com. That's Q
S2: for hillsdale.com.
S1: Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the
S1: Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find
S1: your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to hillsdale.edu.