WEBVTT - Liberty and Learning: Part Six 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.690 You're invited to take a deep dive into the founding 0:00:05.690 --> 0:00:10.010 principles of the United States. Join Mark Levin and Larry Arnn, 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:14.570 the president of Hillsdale College, as they present Liberty and Learning. 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.060 Hello, America. This is Mark Levin, and I'm here with 0:00:23.060 --> 0:00:26.810 the president of Hillsdale College, my dear friend Larry Arnn. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:31.220 This is Liberty and Learning, our joint podcast between Westwood 0:00:31.220 --> 0:00:36.019 One and Hillsdale College, episode six already. And by the way, 0:00:36.020 --> 0:00:38.360 I want you to check out Hillsdale's website. They have 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.730 all kinds of things going on in there, a lot 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.300 of free things that you can do. Educate yourselves and 0:00:44.300 --> 0:00:47.090 family members. It's a lot of fun. It's very entertaining 0:00:47.090 --> 0:00:52.940 and interesting. You go to Hillsdale.edu Hillsdale.edu Larry Arnn a 0:00:52.940 --> 0:00:55.160 lot going on these days, my friend, and a lot 0:00:55.190 --> 0:00:59.150 that requires your thinking and understanding of the Constitution. We 0:00:59.150 --> 0:01:01.420 have a lot of federal judges out there who think 0:01:01.420 --> 0:01:05.470 they run the executive branch. Everything from what language should 0:01:05.470 --> 0:01:07.960 be on a website to how many people can be 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.360 removed and so forth and so on. So let's start 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:13.660 at the beginning. Let's start at the beginning. What are 0:01:13.660 --> 0:01:17.590 the powers of federal district judges, and are they even 0:01:17.590 --> 0:01:19.150 in the Constitution? 0:01:19.180 --> 0:01:23.319 Yeah, the federal judges, the district judges are created by 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:28.839 the Judiciary Act of 1789. John Marshall decision. So they're 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:33.250 old and they're created by Congress. That's what the Constitution says. 0:01:33.250 --> 0:01:37.600 The Supreme Court and such lower courts. And they you know, 0:01:37.630 --> 0:01:41.709 they have intervened in the in the in the history 0:01:41.709 --> 0:01:46.510 of America. The second case ever declared unconstitutional by the 0:01:46.510 --> 0:01:50.650 Supreme Court was Dred Scott versus Sanford. The first was 0:01:50.650 --> 0:01:55.210 one part of that 1789 Judiciary Act. The Supreme Court 0:01:55.210 --> 0:01:59.950 can do that because the Constitution is supreme. And if 0:01:59.980 --> 0:02:04.000 a statute is passed that violates it, they can't enforce 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.150 it against an individual or a party. And that's the 0:02:07.150 --> 0:02:11.049 key power of the court's separation of powers means if 0:02:11.050 --> 0:02:14.109 the long arm of the law reaches out and gets you, 0:02:14.139 --> 0:02:16.750 you get hauled in front of somebody that can't be 0:02:16.780 --> 0:02:20.500 fired by the other branches. And he judges whether your 0:02:20.500 --> 0:02:26.890 punishment is lawful. That's the independent courts. It's fundamentally important. 0:02:27.190 --> 0:02:32.139 And then an implication arises because of that, because that 0:02:32.139 --> 0:02:37.030 means that if the Supreme Court says this thing is unconstitutional, 0:02:37.030 --> 0:02:40.570 it's likely to say that again. And that gives it 0:02:40.570 --> 0:02:47.980 an authority over statute law. And that that is written 0:02:47.980 --> 0:02:51.610 in the system in the way of the system. It's 0:02:51.610 --> 0:02:56.019 not explicit in the Constitution, but it's a necessary implication. 0:02:56.350 --> 0:03:01.470 And then what's arisen in its it's strictly modern. There's 0:03:01.470 --> 0:03:05.070 only one case in the 19th century or before, where 0:03:05.070 --> 0:03:13.230 a district judge declares an act of the executive nationwide unconstitutional. 0:03:13.230 --> 0:03:16.350 And that case is Roger Taney, who was the Supreme 0:03:16.380 --> 0:03:20.040 Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, acting as a circuit judge. 0:03:20.070 --> 0:03:24.570 So he was a very bad overreacher that guy. And 0:03:24.570 --> 0:03:30.060 after that, such cases are rare. There's one in about 1950. 0:03:30.150 --> 0:03:34.620 There's another one in about 1960. And now they've become common. 0:03:34.650 --> 0:03:41.700 And so now the 677 federal district judges, each one 0:03:41.730 --> 0:03:47.340 feels empowered to disrupt the whole operation nationwide of the 0:03:47.340 --> 0:03:50.340 actions of an executive. And that's what's wrong. And that's 0:03:50.340 --> 0:03:52.680 what's happening. It's happened 4 or 5 times now to 0:03:52.710 --> 0:03:54.270 Trump in his first month. 0:03:54.300 --> 0:03:58.200 Let's dig into this doctor Aaron. First of all, you 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:02.330 have what are called, as you said, federal district judges. 0:04:02.330 --> 0:04:07.040 They're not federal national judges. Correct. So they they have 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:11.570 rulings in historically, their rulings impact the district in which 0:04:11.570 --> 0:04:16.190 they're in. These districts are created by Congress, not the Constitution. 0:04:16.220 --> 0:04:19.520 These judges are created by Congress, not the Constitution. The 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.510 Constitution gives Congress the power to create both. So when 0:04:23.510 --> 0:04:27.589 a federal district judge issues, say, a temporary restraining order, 0:04:27.620 --> 0:04:31.460 a temporary injunction or a permanent injunction, and does that nationwide, 0:04:31.490 --> 0:04:35.120 they're really operating outside their lane, aren't they? They're grabbing 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:39.529 power that a federal district judge does not have. Correct? 0:04:39.589 --> 0:04:44.900 Yeah, it violates practice. But also obviously it violates common sense. Right. 0:04:44.930 --> 0:04:49.040 How can you do business if one of 677 guys 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:54.380 becomes the national authority on some major national level of policy? 0:04:54.410 --> 0:04:57.349 And so it's really going to take the US Supreme 0:04:57.350 --> 0:05:00.740 Court Itself to put this back in the box, isn't it? 0:05:00.770 --> 0:05:03.050 It's going to take the Roberts Court at some point. 0:05:03.050 --> 0:05:08.089 And Justice Clarence Thomas has raised concerns about it. Justice 0:05:08.089 --> 0:05:11.570 Gorsuch has raised concerns about it. Justice Alito has raised 0:05:11.570 --> 0:05:15.530 concerns about it, that it's really out of control. And 0:05:15.529 --> 0:05:19.970 unless these federal district judges and we get a ruling 0:05:19.970 --> 0:05:23.390 from down high on the Supreme Court are told, no, 0:05:23.390 --> 0:05:25.910 that's not your place. They're going to keep doing this, 0:05:25.910 --> 0:05:28.940 aren't they? Because there's really no way to stop them. 0:05:29.000 --> 0:05:34.760 That's right. And, you know, both Republican courts and Democratic 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:38.960 courts have done this, Democratic courts more. But that's right. 0:05:38.990 --> 0:05:43.219 And see, Congress has powers here. Right. It could pass 0:05:43.220 --> 0:05:45.950 a law that says they may not do this. And 0:05:45.950 --> 0:05:50.990 what can it not do? Remember, judging is an awesome power. 0:05:50.990 --> 0:05:55.280 And district judges have an awesome power and they need it. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.180 And that is a bunch of parties show up in 0:05:58.180 --> 0:06:01.930 front of them. Let's take the case of these fired 0:06:01.930 --> 0:06:06.310 officials who got an injunction that they can't be fired 0:06:06.370 --> 0:06:09.760 if they show up in court. A judge could rule 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:14.680 that in their case, they can't be fired pending appeal. 0:06:14.770 --> 0:06:17.589 What they can't rule is that the president may not 0:06:17.589 --> 0:06:20.860 do such things. That has to go to the Supreme Court. 0:06:20.860 --> 0:06:23.680 So they need to get back in their lane. And 0:06:23.710 --> 0:06:26.800 you know, this guy in New York, Engelman, I think 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:27.580 is his name. 0:06:27.610 --> 0:06:28.510 Something like that. 0:06:28.540 --> 0:06:33.700 He actually ruled that the Department of Government Official Efficiency, 0:06:33.700 --> 0:06:36.130 which is a appointee of the president of the United 0:06:36.130 --> 0:06:40.750 States and acting on his authority, not only they their 0:06:40.750 --> 0:06:45.430 members cannot see the data of the Treasury Department. The 0:06:45.430 --> 0:06:49.870 appointed and confirmed Secretary of the Treasury may not see 0:06:49.870 --> 0:06:55.240 the data, and they he ordered them to destroy the 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:58.900 data they had collected it. And that just directly cuts 0:06:58.900 --> 0:07:02.799 off the president from management of. You know, one of 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.160 the four departments of government that are actually named in 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.310 the Constitution. There are way too many departments of government now, 0:07:09.310 --> 0:07:12.070 but the Treasury is one of the original ones. Alexander 0:07:12.070 --> 0:07:15.280 Hamilton was the first Secretary of Treasury. And so Scott 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:21.010 Bessent is under court order not to supervise the operation 0:07:21.010 --> 0:07:23.890 of his department from a New York judge. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.130 Well, let's get into this, because, you know, I wrote 0:07:27.130 --> 0:07:31.150 a book many years ago about the courts, and I 0:07:31.150 --> 0:07:34.780 indicated many of the things that these federal district judges do. 0:07:34.810 --> 0:07:37.510 They run federal prisons, they run school systems. And you 0:07:37.510 --> 0:07:39.100 go on and on and on and on. It was 0:07:39.100 --> 0:07:42.490 bad enough back then, 20 some years ago. But now 0:07:42.490 --> 0:07:46.360 there's a direct constitutional confrontation, isn't there? Not between Trump 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:49.930 and the courts, but the courts against Trump. And that 0:07:49.930 --> 0:07:59.880 is basic HR decisions, basic restructuring decisions. Basic employment number decisions. 0:07:59.910 --> 0:08:04.200 Judges now are intervening on what can and cannot be 0:08:04.230 --> 0:08:08.550 on the CDC's website. And as you point out, this 0:08:08.550 --> 0:08:13.860 judge and there's another one, too, telling Trump and his designees, 0:08:14.250 --> 0:08:18.210 you don't even get access to information to determine if 0:08:18.210 --> 0:08:21.060 there's waste, fraud and abuse. So my question to you 0:08:21.060 --> 0:08:24.720 is this. Let's let's start at the basics. What is 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:29.040 the executive branch under the Constitution? Who runs the executive 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.970 branch under the Constitution? And aren't these the basic functions 0:08:32.970 --> 0:08:35.880 of the chief executive of the executive branch? 0:08:35.910 --> 0:08:39.360 The reason politics are so interesting and promising right now 0:08:39.390 --> 0:08:42.060 is that the new administration has taken on the question 0:08:42.090 --> 0:08:45.690 of who is sovereign in America and their claim and 0:08:45.690 --> 0:08:49.170 their very explicit and clear about this is that when 0:08:49.170 --> 0:08:53.610 article two of the Constitution says the executive power shall 0:08:53.610 --> 0:08:57.680 be vested in a president. that's what it means. And 0:08:57.679 --> 0:08:59.809 the reason it's right for the for it to be 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:02.630 vested in one person. There's a big argument about why 0:09:02.630 --> 0:09:07.130 that's better in the Federalist Papers is that he is 0:09:07.130 --> 0:09:11.720 elected by us and we are sovereign. Right. And so 0:09:11.809 --> 0:09:16.969 the alternative claim is that this administrative state, which is 0:09:16.970 --> 0:09:21.860 purportedly in the executive branch, that they are sovereign, they 0:09:21.860 --> 0:09:26.000 are outside politics, above politics. That's one, you know, the 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.609 progressives who invented this whole thing and has grown up 0:09:28.610 --> 0:09:31.670 in our government over the last 100 years. They actually 0:09:31.670 --> 0:09:34.760 argued that take it out of the hubbub of politics, 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:38.630 which means taking it away from the authority of the people, 0:09:38.660 --> 0:09:41.300 because the great thing about the president is not just 0:09:41.300 --> 0:09:45.559 that we elected him. We can also elect somebody in 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:49.189 his place, and that means he must be responsible to us. 0:09:49.190 --> 0:09:53.870 And that's consent of the governed. It's the most fundamental thing. 0:09:53.870 --> 0:09:56.840 And there's a question about that now. And what this 0:09:56.840 --> 0:10:00.620 judge in New York appears to think is that they. 0:10:00.650 --> 0:10:05.240 These officials, whoever they are, and by the way, they're innumerable. 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:09.740 There's a. Scholars have been arguing for years how many 0:10:09.770 --> 0:10:15.350 independent agencies there are. And I once spoke to a 0:10:15.350 --> 0:10:19.190 high official in the Federal Bureau of Investigation and I. 0:10:19.220 --> 0:10:21.410 Know him a little. And I said to him, I 0:10:21.410 --> 0:10:24.020 hope you're not mixed up in all that mess. And 0:10:24.020 --> 0:10:27.890 I meant, you know, them intervening in two elections. And 0:10:27.890 --> 0:10:31.670 he said, I'm just trying to keep the agency independent. 0:10:31.670 --> 0:10:36.020 And I said, independent of what? And he paused. He's 0:10:36.020 --> 0:10:40.370 a very good guy. Retired now. He said, I don't 0:10:40.370 --> 0:10:45.770 think I've ever been asked that question before. Isn't that interesting? And, 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:50.990 you know, independent of you know, I commented, I said, 0:10:51.260 --> 0:10:53.900 do you have the authority to shoot me? And if 0:10:53.900 --> 0:10:57.520 you do, where'd you get it? You know, and that's 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:01.360 the question, isn't it? And, you know, consent of the 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:06.790 governed means that for the massive monopoly power of government 0:11:06.790 --> 0:11:10.720 to do something to somebody, it has to have consent 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:15.940 from that somebody. And that's what's at stake in this argument. 0:11:15.940 --> 0:11:20.860 And and the progressive arguments don't work. And, you know, 0:11:20.890 --> 0:11:23.950 they're they first of all, they've near bankrupted the country. 0:11:23.950 --> 0:11:27.339 And second of all, they've made it terribly inefficient. And 0:11:27.340 --> 0:11:29.140 third of all, we're not very good at fighting our 0:11:29.140 --> 0:11:35.230 wars lately. And that's because bureaucracy, right. This divided this idea. 0:11:35.230 --> 0:11:38.080 It's not even really divided the idea that experts should 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.300 rule instead of ordinary people. 0:11:40.900 --> 0:11:44.890 When we come back, I want to pursue this and pursue, well, 0:11:44.890 --> 0:11:46.720 what do we do about it? Seems to me Donald 0:11:46.750 --> 0:11:48.699 Trump's trying to do a lot about it. What does 0:11:48.700 --> 0:11:50.709 Congress do about it? What are the courts do about it? 0:11:50.740 --> 0:11:54.130 What are we the people do about it? This is 0:11:54.130 --> 0:11:58.140 liberty and Learning episode six. I'm Mark Levin, he is 0:11:58.140 --> 0:12:02.160 Doctor Larry Arnn. It is a Westwood One Hillsdale College 0:12:02.160 --> 0:12:06.300 podcast partnership. On both of our networks. We'll be right back. 0:12:16.500 --> 0:12:19.380 Welcome back America, this is Mark Levin, and I'm here 0:12:19.380 --> 0:12:23.340 with the president of Hillsdale College, my dear friend Larry Arnn. 0:12:23.370 --> 0:12:28.860 This is the Liberty and Learning Podcast episode six partnership 0:12:28.860 --> 0:12:33.780 with Westwood One and Hillsdale College, our podcast networks. Now, 0:12:33.809 --> 0:12:36.300 Doctor Arnn, I mean, Congress has a role too, other 0:12:36.300 --> 0:12:39.330 than sitting there and watching what's taking place between the 0:12:39.330 --> 0:12:41.490 executive branch and the courts, isn't that right? 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.670 Yeah, Congress has a role. Of course it has a role. 0:12:44.670 --> 0:12:48.450 This weekend I've started posting on X to give me 0:12:48.450 --> 0:12:50.130 something to do because I don't have any time, and 0:12:50.130 --> 0:12:51.960 also a whole new opportunity to make a fool of 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:56.459 myself and And on the weekend, Mike Lee, a very 0:12:56.460 --> 0:12:58.380 good senator, came up with the idea that there should 0:12:58.380 --> 0:13:02.070 be a three judge panel with immediate appeal to the 0:13:02.070 --> 0:13:05.730 Supreme Court, and that would be better than what we've got, 0:13:05.730 --> 0:13:09.719 but much better than that, because that presents a danger to. 0:13:09.750 --> 0:13:12.390 And the danger is the Supreme Court will then become 0:13:12.390 --> 0:13:15.090 a standing body to judge everything that goes on in 0:13:15.090 --> 0:13:19.860 the executive branch, but the branches are co-equal. Lincoln makes 0:13:19.860 --> 0:13:21.750 the point in the Dred Scott in his speech about 0:13:21.750 --> 0:13:25.260 the Dred Scott decision, the second law ever overturned by 0:13:25.260 --> 0:13:30.090 the Supreme Court, that each branch takes an oath to 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.840 the Constitution, and they must follow it as they understand 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.710 it and not as somebody else understands it. And so 0:13:37.710 --> 0:13:42.060 conflict among the branches is bound to happen, and the 0:13:42.059 --> 0:13:46.650 courts only decide them finally, in some cases. And that 0:13:46.650 --> 0:13:49.290 means we all have to have an opinion about the Constitution. 0:13:49.290 --> 0:13:53.400 And this conflict between the branches, as is going on now, 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:56.719 is a clue to the people that they should pay 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.210 attention and vote for the people they like who are 0:13:59.210 --> 0:14:01.490 on the right side of the conflict. That means we 0:14:01.490 --> 0:14:05.330 get to govern ourselves still. But anyway, Lee's opinion is 0:14:05.330 --> 0:14:08.600 better than what we got. The best opinion I know is, 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:11.449 of course, the very great Clarence Thomas, and what he 0:14:11.450 --> 0:14:16.070 says is the district courts should be confined to deciding 0:14:16.070 --> 0:14:19.160 the matter. For the people who are in the room, 0:14:19.220 --> 0:14:22.730 the ones before them, the parties to the case, they 0:14:22.730 --> 0:14:26.930 should decide that subject, of course, to appeal and then 0:14:26.930 --> 0:14:30.500 whatever they decide will be consequential and decisive for those 0:14:30.500 --> 0:14:34.820 people until an appeal. And then higher courts can get 0:14:34.820 --> 0:14:39.830 involved and sort it out. And in the meantime, work 0:14:39.860 --> 0:14:43.400 can go on in the executive branch and the Congress 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.390 can continue to legislate. I think it's true. You're the 0:14:47.390 --> 0:14:49.370 lawyer and you know more about this than I do. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.500 But I think it's true that Congress could pass a 0:14:51.500 --> 0:14:54.280 bill that said that, and that would because they defined 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:55.870 the lower courts under the Constitution. 0:14:55.870 --> 0:14:57.850 They could abolish the courts if they wanted to. But 0:14:57.850 --> 0:15:00.280 here's my question to you about the proposal as you 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:03.190 explain it. I'm a little perplexed by this. Number one, 0:15:03.190 --> 0:15:06.520 Congress won't do it. Number two, it depends who's on 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:10.600 this new court. So we're back at that again. And 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.450 number three, how does that fix anything? In other words, 0:15:13.660 --> 0:15:16.060 I guess the argument is, well, at least the other 0:15:16.060 --> 0:15:18.970 courts aren't doing it. Well, then the other courts aren't 0:15:18.970 --> 0:15:21.460 doing it because somebody stepped in and told the other 0:15:21.460 --> 0:15:23.050 courts not to do it. Why don't we just tell 0:15:23.050 --> 0:15:24.700 the other courts not to do it? 0:15:24.730 --> 0:15:28.060 That would do just fine. And that it's better to write, 0:15:28.060 --> 0:15:31.150 in other words, the Supreme Court when it becomes a 0:15:31.150 --> 0:15:34.660 legislative body. It's not very good at it and it 0:15:34.660 --> 0:15:40.300 loses prestige. Whereas if what it does is outside politics, 0:15:40.870 --> 0:15:45.610 according to the law, strictly decide the cases that are 0:15:45.610 --> 0:15:49.420 in front of it. And then there are appeals up 0:15:49.420 --> 0:15:52.720 to the Supremes. And, you know, we have to remember 0:15:52.900 --> 0:15:58.780 what the Dred Scott decision did is horrific, right? The 0:15:58.780 --> 0:16:03.700 Republican Party was born with a plan to forbid slavery 0:16:03.700 --> 0:16:07.630 expanding into any of the land not yet organized as 0:16:07.630 --> 0:16:10.989 states that I'm very proud to report and claim all 0:16:10.990 --> 0:16:14.650 the time. It's true that that idea was partially invented 0:16:14.650 --> 0:16:18.100 here at Hillsdale College in a building that still stands. 0:16:18.130 --> 0:16:19.060 That's amazing. 0:16:19.150 --> 0:16:22.090 Isn't it great? I just love that. And, and and, 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:23.920 you know, it's one of the greatest acts of a 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:28.000 political party in history because it devised a constitutional way 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:33.280 to fight slavery without abolishing the authority of the states, 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.260 all the new land, and that was most of the 0:16:35.260 --> 0:16:38.110 land of America in those days, would come in as 0:16:38.110 --> 0:16:41.170 free states, and slavery would be placed in the course 0:16:41.170 --> 0:16:45.370 of ultimate extinction. And then in 1857, Dred Scott was 0:16:45.370 --> 0:16:48.760 a slave who'd been taken first into a federal territory 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.220 where there was no slavery, and then into Illinois for 0:16:51.220 --> 0:16:54.060 a time when there was no slavery. Slavery. Then back 0:16:54.060 --> 0:16:57.090 to Missouri, where there was. And he sued that he 0:16:57.090 --> 0:17:02.010 should have his freedom. And Roger Taney, the aforementioned Supreme 0:17:02.010 --> 0:17:07.440 Court chief justice, ruled in a very divided court that 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:12.750 the federal government had no power to regulate slavery, including 0:17:12.750 --> 0:17:16.590 in the land not yet organized as states. And that's 0:17:16.590 --> 0:17:19.770 just a horrific decision. And then, you know, it just 0:17:19.770 --> 0:17:23.159 so happened Abraham Lincoln was alive, and he got to 0:17:23.190 --> 0:17:26.520 answer that. And his speech on the Dred Scott decision 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.120 is one of the profoundest of his speeches and explains 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.139 the rightful and great authority of the courts and the 0:17:34.140 --> 0:17:39.930 limits on that authority. And his argument is that when 0:17:39.930 --> 0:17:42.900 the Supreme Court, these district court things are just crazy, 0:17:42.900 --> 0:17:45.420 by the way, and outside all practice for the first 0:17:45.420 --> 0:17:51.930 150 years of America, he said, is it a consensus Opinion. 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.190 Does it fit with the legal expectations that prevail at 0:17:56.190 --> 0:18:00.179 the time? Are the historical and factual claims that it 0:18:00.180 --> 0:18:05.760 makes true? Does it violate common sense? And if it does, 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.450 then it's worthy of great respect. But he says if 0:18:09.450 --> 0:18:12.240 it's not, if it doesn't meet those criteria and the 0:18:12.240 --> 0:18:16.350 people submit to it, quote, they shall have ceased to 0:18:16.380 --> 0:18:21.240 be their own rulers. So and now it's much worse 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:25.620 than that horrific Dred Scott decision. Now, ordinary district judges 0:18:25.619 --> 0:18:29.280 677 of them are doing it, and we can't govern 0:18:29.310 --> 0:18:30.510 the country that way. 0:18:30.780 --> 0:18:34.260 Mhm. And who are these people? We don't even know 0:18:34.260 --> 0:18:35.220 who they are. 0:18:35.250 --> 0:18:36.300 The guy in New York. 0:18:36.330 --> 0:18:38.430 There are lawyers who who got lucky. 0:18:38.490 --> 0:18:40.800 Yeah that's right. Got the guy in New York got 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:44.460 appointed by Obama. Another lady I think another female judge, 0:18:44.460 --> 0:18:47.730 I think also an Obama appointee has taken over the 0:18:47.730 --> 0:18:52.250 case now and sustained it so far. So in at 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:56.389 least four big cases, things that Trump has come in 0:18:56.420 --> 0:19:00.440 to do, like a whirlwind, are in suspension right now. 0:19:00.950 --> 0:19:03.439 And and you know he's and you know that's the 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:08.780 tactic right. Delay let time pass hope for relief in 0:19:08.780 --> 0:19:12.619 the midterms right. And Trump was elected to do a 0:19:12.619 --> 0:19:15.020 bunch of stuff. And Lord is he not sitting about it. 0:19:15.050 --> 0:19:18.200 And I think people need to understand it's not just 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.260 Trump's responsibility, which is I think what we're getting at here, 0:19:21.260 --> 0:19:25.340 it is a key responsibility of his. But this other 0:19:25.340 --> 0:19:27.949 elected entity, the United States Congress, I mean, they created 0:19:27.950 --> 0:19:31.730 these courts. The Senate has to give its rubber stamp 0:19:31.730 --> 0:19:34.880 on anybody that's going to serve in these courts. And 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.730 they ought not just walk away from their responsibilities here. 0:19:37.730 --> 0:19:40.220 I mean, I don't even know if somebody put a 0:19:40.220 --> 0:19:42.800 bill in the hopper that already says that. Excuse me, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:47.120 you don't get to issue nationwide anything. Whatever you do 0:19:47.150 --> 0:19:50.090 is in your district, period. And that would go a 0:19:50.090 --> 0:19:52.850 long way in curtailing a lot of this abuse of power. 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:54.860 So why don't they just do that? 0:19:54.890 --> 0:19:57.139 You know, I don't know if there's a bill. There's 0:19:57.140 --> 0:19:59.780 a bunch of smart senators. Tom Cotton should do such 0:19:59.780 --> 0:20:00.409 a bill. 0:20:00.500 --> 0:20:01.550 Yeah, he'd be great. 0:20:01.550 --> 0:20:07.159 And, uh, I don't who's the chairman of the Judiciary Committee? But, uh, 0:20:07.220 --> 0:20:07.850 you really. 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:09.980 Want to know? I think it's Lindsey Graham. 0:20:10.250 --> 0:20:11.330 Okay, well. 0:20:11.330 --> 0:20:12.320 If I had to guess. 0:20:12.350 --> 0:20:14.150 He's imaginative. 0:20:14.660 --> 0:20:15.020 He could. 0:20:15.020 --> 0:20:15.530 Do it. 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:17.270 That's a good way to put it. Yeah. 0:20:19.369 --> 0:20:20.300 If, uh. 0:20:20.330 --> 0:20:21.139 Yeah, they're. 0:20:21.140 --> 0:20:23.570 Busy in Saudi Arabia these days. But anyway, go ahead. 0:20:23.570 --> 0:20:24.050 I'm listening. 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:26.600 And see, you know, the what's. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.870 Happened in this building of the bureaucratic state. I was 0:20:29.869 --> 0:20:33.350 in the course of saying maybe didn't finish it, that forever. 0:20:33.350 --> 0:20:37.520 Scholars have debated. Are there 150 or more or fewer 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:42.260 of these rule making agencies because it's hard to count them, right. 0:20:42.260 --> 0:20:45.800 And nobody can name them. You can't even count them? No. Well, 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.490 the Doge has been saying lately that they have found 450, 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.980 and that's plausible, right? Because they grow up over time, 0:20:53.980 --> 0:20:58.180 there's no central record of them. They pass these regulations. 0:20:58.180 --> 0:21:01.180 They've got you know, we now know look at USAID, 0:21:01.210 --> 0:21:05.320 that they effectively have unlimited budgets. One of the things 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:08.920 that Doge has reported is like, you know, Hillsdale College 0:21:08.950 --> 0:21:11.470 is a business and your radio show is a business, 0:21:11.470 --> 0:21:14.170 and Westwood One is a business. And that means that 0:21:14.170 --> 0:21:17.409 it goes through three simple steps. It decides what it's 0:21:17.410 --> 0:21:20.530 going to spend money on, and then people spend the 0:21:20.530 --> 0:21:24.460 money or apply to get a payment made. And then 0:21:24.460 --> 0:21:28.570 somebody checks to see if it fits with what's been decided. 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:33.160 Three steps. Apparently they don't do the third step in 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.550 the federal government. As I say, their appropriations bills and 0:21:36.550 --> 0:21:39.520 the massive amounts of money. And if one of these 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:43.570 agencies presents a bill to the Treasury, they just pay it. 0:21:43.690 --> 0:21:45.940 And that's one of the reasons why they've not been 0:21:45.940 --> 0:21:49.480 able to complete an audit of the Pentagon for five 0:21:49.500 --> 0:21:52.830 years because the records are not there. They don't keep them. 0:21:52.830 --> 0:21:57.240 That's why they're not there. So it's just limitless money 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:01.229 and it just flows. Right. And of course, the people 0:22:01.230 --> 0:22:04.980 who work under those conditions, that two things follow from that, 0:22:04.980 --> 0:22:09.179 by the way, being in an unaccountable position. The first 0:22:09.180 --> 0:22:13.919 is you. You treasure it. You like it. The second 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.610 is it does not make you happy, right? Because where's 0:22:17.609 --> 0:22:21.780 the achievement? Where's the accomplishment? Right. If all you've got, 0:22:21.810 --> 0:22:25.440 there's no deadline. You just. I mean, what is it? 0:22:25.470 --> 0:22:29.369 I it's been in the papers that 6% of the 0:22:29.369 --> 0:22:34.470 federal workforce shows up for work every day. That's amazing. 0:22:34.470 --> 0:22:35.010 Crazy. 0:22:35.430 --> 0:22:39.780 And check in by the month. Right. And we need 0:22:39.780 --> 0:22:43.740 to get some discipline over this, because we're $37 trillion 0:22:43.740 --> 0:22:46.800 in debt. For what? What do we get for it 0:22:46.830 --> 0:22:52.190 except interference? So that's that's the argument we're having today. 0:22:52.190 --> 0:22:55.700 And these district judges who've intervened, four or 5 or 0:22:55.700 --> 0:22:58.820 6 of them. They're on the front lines of that. 0:22:58.820 --> 0:23:01.520 And they're exercising a power they ought not to have, 0:23:01.550 --> 0:23:03.350 do not rightfully have. 0:23:03.980 --> 0:23:07.730 When we come back, ladies and gentlemen, Elon Musk. The 0:23:07.730 --> 0:23:13.700 Democrats keep saying he's unconstitutional. He doesn't have this power. 0:23:13.700 --> 0:23:17.780 He's unelected. What's all that mean? We'll be right back 0:23:17.780 --> 0:23:20.750 with Larry Arnn on Mark Levin on liberty and Learning. 0:23:20.780 --> 0:23:25.910 Episode six A partnership between Westwood One and Hillsdale College 0:23:25.910 --> 0:23:40.400 and our podcast networks. We'll be right back. Welcome back America. 0:23:40.430 --> 0:23:43.250 This is Liberty and Learning with Doctor Larry Arnn, president 0:23:43.250 --> 0:23:47.239 of Hillsdale. I'm Mark Levin here, the joint podcast of 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:51.200 Westwood One and Hillsdale College. We love this partnership. It's 0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:55.189 so important that we convey to you real constitutional notions 0:23:55.190 --> 0:23:59.359 and ideas about your rule of law. And that's the 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.359 purpose of this program, among other things. Now, Larry Arnn, 0:24:02.390 --> 0:24:06.800 Elon Musk, the Democrats, who, by the way, despise the Constitution, 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:09.650 they've spent years telling us they despise it, that it's 0:24:09.650 --> 0:24:13.430 too white, that it's too old, that the framers, their monuments, 0:24:13.460 --> 0:24:15.410 need to be torn down. And then they keep waving 0:24:15.410 --> 0:24:18.919 the Constitution in front of us. Pretty, pretty pathetic. But 0:24:18.920 --> 0:24:22.939 they're telling us Elon Musk is unconstitutional. How do you 0:24:22.940 --> 0:24:23.990 reply to that? 0:24:24.140 --> 0:24:27.379 Well, I would say that Elon Musk is in his 0:24:27.380 --> 0:24:33.170 role as the Doge is plainly and clearly constitutional, although 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:38.119 as a personal figure, he transcends any document. He's an 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:42.410 amazing guy. True enough. You know, he's going to Mars, but. 0:24:42.530 --> 0:24:46.550 And he made my Cybertruck and I really like it. Uh, well, it. 0:24:46.550 --> 0:24:47.540 Drives it, you know. 0:24:47.690 --> 0:24:50.980 Yeah. It does. Yeah. It drives itself. Amazing. Anyway, so 0:24:50.980 --> 0:24:53.560 that guy, you know, is not constrained by much of 0:24:53.560 --> 0:24:57.100 anything except in this role. And that is to say, 0:24:57.100 --> 0:25:00.639 he doesn't actually have any power except to find stuff 0:25:00.640 --> 0:25:04.780 out and report it. And only Donald Trump and his 0:25:05.109 --> 0:25:09.580 long established agents, key among them, a really great man 0:25:09.580 --> 0:25:11.889 named Russ Vought, who's the director of the Office of 0:25:11.890 --> 0:25:17.050 Management and Budget. Only they can do anything. And the 0:25:17.050 --> 0:25:20.440 Duchess comes in and finds out stuff, and they seem 0:25:20.440 --> 0:25:23.530 to be really good at it. And, uh, you know, 0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:27.700 hee hee, the way it's like, it's it's fun to 0:25:27.730 --> 0:25:31.120 listen to the debate on both sides, by the way, 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:35.440 because both sides are making fundamental points now. But what 0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:39.459 Musk does is compare it, what he sees to what 0:25:39.490 --> 0:25:42.609 a business is like. And it's just different as night 0:25:42.609 --> 0:25:47.970 and day and it's corrupt or unaccountable or both. They 0:25:47.970 --> 0:25:51.060 go together, those two things. And so like that thing 0:25:51.060 --> 0:25:56.580 about how they don't reconcile what's been approved with what's paid, 0:25:56.580 --> 0:26:01.140 they don't take that step. And that's crazy that they don't. 0:26:01.140 --> 0:26:06.480 And it means they can't be audited. And that's unaccountable. Right. 0:26:06.750 --> 0:26:10.080 And and then, you know, the way he runs his company, 0:26:10.350 --> 0:26:13.500 I saw a really funny thing. Somebody, you know, they're 0:26:13.500 --> 0:26:17.790 saying it's Elizabeth Warren. I think the senator said, uh, 0:26:18.210 --> 0:26:22.590 it's dangerous to have a guy like Musk messing around 0:26:22.590 --> 0:26:28.050 with the air traffic controllers. And somebody replied, hey, the 0:26:28.050 --> 0:26:30.030 dude caught a rocket in midair. 0:26:30.030 --> 0:26:30.750 Yeah, yeah. 0:26:31.260 --> 0:26:37.590 So so that was pretty good. I think he's a 0:26:37.619 --> 0:26:41.370 historic human being, and he really knows how to run 0:26:41.369 --> 0:26:43.830 a business, and he seems to really know how to 0:26:43.859 --> 0:26:47.669 analyze one. And so I think just the transparency of 0:26:47.670 --> 0:26:51.510 all of this. My friend Roger Kimball keeps writing, and 0:26:51.510 --> 0:26:54.300 I may have said it to him first. Maybe this 0:26:54.300 --> 0:26:58.650 whole state is like vampires. They die in the sunlight. 0:26:58.650 --> 0:26:59.580 And I hope so. 0:26:59.670 --> 0:27:05.520 Mhm. Mhm. Now, how is it possible that a GS 13, 0:27:05.550 --> 0:27:08.850 a mid-level bureaucrat in the Department of fill in the blank, 0:27:09.780 --> 0:27:13.109 has all kinds of powers to make decisions about employment 0:27:13.109 --> 0:27:17.429 funding policies and so forth. But his boss, the president 0:27:17.430 --> 0:27:19.379 of the United States, as you note, who was actually 0:27:19.380 --> 0:27:22.170 in the Constitution does not. 0:27:22.890 --> 0:27:26.129 That's that's the thing, right? I mean, you have to 0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:29.520 go back to the early days. So progressivism comes into 0:27:29.550 --> 0:27:33.450 America in the late 19th and early 20th century, and 0:27:33.450 --> 0:27:35.609 it comes into America by a bunch of people who 0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:42.420 were very influenced by German thought, German historicism. And they thought, 0:27:42.450 --> 0:27:45.930 you know, Woodrow Wilson is the most successful politically of them. 0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:48.890 He was president of Princeton before he was president. And 0:27:48.890 --> 0:27:53.030 he writes in the most telling essay that the Constitution 0:27:53.030 --> 0:27:57.290 was written in a time accountable to Isaac Newton. And 0:27:57.290 --> 0:28:00.440 they thought of it as a mechanism. But now we 0:28:00.440 --> 0:28:04.580 have Darwin, and we know that everything must evolve. Government 0:28:04.580 --> 0:28:08.720 must be a living and changing thing. And he and 0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:11.750 John Dewey and Frank Goodenough and those guys, Herbert Croly, 0:28:11.750 --> 0:28:14.060 you can read about them all in the Constitution, reader 0:28:14.060 --> 0:28:17.750 of the Hillsdale College, what they thought was, we're going 0:28:17.780 --> 0:28:21.320 to build a new kind of state run by experts, 0:28:21.320 --> 0:28:24.770 and it will still be under the authority of the people, 0:28:24.800 --> 0:28:28.610 but it will propose everything, and the people can veto it. 0:28:28.609 --> 0:28:33.619 And the president becomes a national spokesman for what the 0:28:33.619 --> 0:28:38.720 bureaucracy recommends. And that's laid out in their early writings. 0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:42.590 And now it has come to be. And there's a 0:28:42.590 --> 0:28:46.760 man named James Landis who's an important author, and he 0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:51.980 writes that you won't need separation of powers anymore because 0:28:51.980 --> 0:28:56.510 these people will have guaranteed tenure and guaranteed salaries, and 0:28:56.510 --> 0:29:01.010 so they won't have any interest against the public interest. 0:29:01.010 --> 0:29:04.100 And you just have to put that statement against the 0:29:04.100 --> 0:29:06.830 best statement in the Federalist Papers, to my mind, written 0:29:06.830 --> 0:29:10.100 by James Madison. You have to have controls on the 0:29:10.100 --> 0:29:14.420 government because men are not angels, and angels do not 0:29:14.420 --> 0:29:18.230 govern men. If you just compare those two claims by 0:29:18.230 --> 0:29:22.370 Lantis and Madison, then you can decide which side you're on. 0:29:22.850 --> 0:29:27.050 Mhm. Where do you see this going? I think at 0:29:27.050 --> 0:29:30.470 some point the Supreme Court is not going to allow 0:29:30.470 --> 0:29:35.060 this judicial chaos to go on under it. It's not 0:29:35.060 --> 0:29:37.460 going to allow these federal district judges to act like 0:29:37.460 --> 0:29:42.290 rogue individuals, Supreme Court type justices, who can just make 0:29:42.290 --> 0:29:45.350 these decisions for everybody. I mean, at some point, I 0:29:45.370 --> 0:29:47.380 think Roberts and the majority of the court are going 0:29:47.380 --> 0:29:49.030 to have to step in. Don't you? 0:29:49.060 --> 0:29:52.150 I do. I predict that they will, but who knows? 0:29:52.150 --> 0:29:55.450 I think we know how 4 or 5 of them 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:59.260 are going to vote, maybe six, probably because they're on 0:29:59.260 --> 0:30:04.210 record about this. Four of them at least. And you know, 0:30:04.210 --> 0:30:07.900 it's a it's a it's a very important thing. It 0:30:07.900 --> 0:30:12.340 can't ultimately depend on them. I like to say in 0:30:12.340 --> 0:30:15.520 a crisis like that, like the like the Civil War, 0:30:15.550 --> 0:30:18.010 this is like the Civil War crisis, right? In the 0:30:18.010 --> 0:30:20.770 Civil War. It was very difficult to think that we'd 0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:23.200 be able to get rid of slavery, and it was 0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:26.950 very difficult to think that it could continue. Both were hard. 0:30:26.950 --> 0:30:30.460 It's very difficult to think that we can overcome this 0:30:30.460 --> 0:30:34.660 massive mess, and it's very difficult to think that it 0:30:34.660 --> 0:30:38.080 can continue and that we won't overcome it. And so 0:30:38.080 --> 0:30:40.960 right now, we're at a moment of crisis, which means 0:30:40.960 --> 0:30:44.710 turning point, right? One thing or the other. And we 0:30:44.710 --> 0:30:47.640 have to we have to choose now to. That's another thing. 0:30:47.670 --> 0:30:51.360 One of the things that caused the Civil War was 0:30:51.360 --> 0:30:54.900 that it really couldn't go on anymore, because we were 0:30:54.900 --> 0:30:58.530 trying to settle the Western lands and, you know, Kansas 0:30:58.530 --> 0:31:00.990 and Nebraska was the big there was an actual war 0:31:00.990 --> 0:31:04.500 in those places. The little mini civil war, a lot 0:31:04.530 --> 0:31:08.010 of big body count. Because are you going to take 0:31:08.010 --> 0:31:11.760 your slaves there or not? Right. And so finally, something 0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:16.200 had to be done. And this is like that. Uh, 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:22.410 we are apparently generating $1 trillion in deficit every hundred days, 0:31:22.410 --> 0:31:26.400 and the pace is quickening. Something's got to be done. 0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:31.380 And and so because something has to be done, probably finally, 0:31:31.410 --> 0:31:34.800 at last, something will be done. And one can hope 0:31:34.830 --> 0:31:38.100 a restoration of constitutional government is what's possible. 0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:43.469 All right. Fantastic. We can go on hour after hour 0:31:43.470 --> 0:31:47.940 after hour. But time is limiting. I want to thank you, 0:31:47.970 --> 0:31:50.910 doctor Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College, as usual, for 0:31:50.910 --> 0:31:54.840 your incredible insight. I enjoy just listening to it. Um, 0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:58.410 and you folks, you're listening to Liberty and Learning. This 0:31:58.410 --> 0:32:00.690 is episode six. If you want to learn more about 0:32:00.690 --> 0:32:04.740 Hillsdale College, it's actually quite simple. Go to hillsdale.edu. They 0:32:04.770 --> 0:32:10.260 have a fantastic website, hillsdale.edu. They have over 40 courses 0:32:10.260 --> 0:32:13.590 that are available to you for free. They're absolutely fascinating 0:32:13.590 --> 0:32:16.230 and a whole lot of information in there right at 0:32:16.230 --> 0:32:18.540 your fingertips. And they take the time and put the 0:32:18.540 --> 0:32:22.830 resources in collecting all this information and bringing the sort 0:32:22.830 --> 0:32:26.190 of the brilliant constitutional scholars and others to you. It's 0:32:26.190 --> 0:32:28.500 the only college I know that does this sort of thing. 0:32:28.500 --> 0:32:33.420 So it's very, very important. Hillsdale.edu. Doctor Larry Arnn, until 0:32:33.450 --> 0:32:35.760 next time. God bless you and be safe, my brother. 0:32:35.790 --> 0:32:37.680 Thank you very much. You're a great man. 0:32:37.770 --> 0:32:40.050 Take care and see you next time.