1 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,690 S1: You're invited to take a deep dive into the founding 2 00:00:05,690 --> 00:00:10,010 S1: principles of the United States. Join Mark Levin and Larry Arnn, 3 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:14,570 S1: the president of Hillsdale College, as they present Liberty and Learning. 4 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,060 S2: Hello, America. This is Mark Levin, and I'm here with 5 00:00:23,060 --> 00:00:26,810 S2: the president of Hillsdale College, my dear friend Larry Arnn. 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,220 S2: This is Liberty and Learning, our joint podcast between Westwood 7 00:00:31,220 --> 00:00:36,019 S2: One and Hillsdale College, episode six already. And by the way, 8 00:00:36,020 --> 00:00:38,360 S2: I want you to check out Hillsdale's website. They have 9 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,730 S2: all kinds of things going on in there, a lot 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,300 S2: of free things that you can do. Educate yourselves and 11 00:00:44,300 --> 00:00:47,090 S2: family members. It's a lot of fun. It's very entertaining 12 00:00:47,090 --> 00:00:52,940 S2: and interesting. You go to Hillsdale.edu Hillsdale.edu Larry Arnn a 13 00:00:52,940 --> 00:00:55,160 S2: lot going on these days, my friend, and a lot 14 00:00:55,190 --> 00:00:59,150 S2: that requires your thinking and understanding of the Constitution. We 15 00:00:59,150 --> 00:01:01,420 S2: have a lot of federal judges out there who think 16 00:01:01,420 --> 00:01:05,470 S2: they run the executive branch. Everything from what language should 17 00:01:05,470 --> 00:01:07,960 S2: be on a website to how many people can be 18 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,360 S2: removed and so forth and so on. So let's start 19 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:13,660 S2: at the beginning. Let's start at the beginning. What are 20 00:01:13,660 --> 00:01:17,590 S2: the powers of federal district judges, and are they even 21 00:01:17,590 --> 00:01:19,150 S2: in the Constitution? 22 00:01:19,180 --> 00:01:23,319 S3: Yeah, the federal judges, the district judges are created by 23 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,839 S3: the Judiciary Act of 1789. John Marshall decision. So they're 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,250 S3: old and they're created by Congress. That's what the Constitution says. 25 00:01:33,250 --> 00:01:37,600 S3: The Supreme Court and such lower courts. And they you know, 26 00:01:37,630 --> 00:01:41,709 S3: they have intervened in the in the in the history 27 00:01:41,709 --> 00:01:46,510 S3: of America. The second case ever declared unconstitutional by the 28 00:01:46,510 --> 00:01:50,650 S3: Supreme Court was Dred Scott versus Sanford. The first was 29 00:01:50,650 --> 00:01:55,210 S3: one part of that 1789 Judiciary Act. The Supreme Court 30 00:01:55,210 --> 00:01:59,950 S3: can do that because the Constitution is supreme. And if 31 00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:04,000 S3: a statute is passed that violates it, they can't enforce 32 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,150 S3: it against an individual or a party. And that's the 33 00:02:07,150 --> 00:02:11,049 S3: key power of the court's separation of powers means if 34 00:02:11,050 --> 00:02:14,109 S3: the long arm of the law reaches out and gets you, 35 00:02:14,139 --> 00:02:16,750 S3: you get hauled in front of somebody that can't be 36 00:02:16,780 --> 00:02:20,500 S3: fired by the other branches. And he judges whether your 37 00:02:20,500 --> 00:02:26,890 S3: punishment is lawful. That's the independent courts. It's fundamentally important. 38 00:02:27,190 --> 00:02:32,139 S3: And then an implication arises because of that, because that 39 00:02:32,139 --> 00:02:37,030 S3: means that if the Supreme Court says this thing is unconstitutional, 40 00:02:37,030 --> 00:02:40,570 S3: it's likely to say that again. And that gives it 41 00:02:40,570 --> 00:02:47,980 S3: an authority over statute law. And that that is written 42 00:02:47,980 --> 00:02:51,610 S3: in the system in the way of the system. It's 43 00:02:51,610 --> 00:02:56,019 S3: not explicit in the Constitution, but it's a necessary implication. 44 00:02:56,350 --> 00:03:01,470 S3: And then what's arisen in its it's strictly modern. There's 45 00:03:01,470 --> 00:03:05,070 S3: only one case in the 19th century or before, where 46 00:03:05,070 --> 00:03:13,230 S3: a district judge declares an act of the executive nationwide unconstitutional. 47 00:03:13,230 --> 00:03:16,350 S3: And that case is Roger Taney, who was the Supreme 48 00:03:16,380 --> 00:03:20,040 S3: Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, acting as a circuit judge. 49 00:03:20,070 --> 00:03:24,570 S3: So he was a very bad overreacher that guy. And 50 00:03:24,570 --> 00:03:30,060 S3: after that, such cases are rare. There's one in about 1950. 51 00:03:30,150 --> 00:03:34,620 S3: There's another one in about 1960. And now they've become common. 52 00:03:34,650 --> 00:03:41,700 S3: And so now the 677 federal district judges, each one 53 00:03:41,730 --> 00:03:47,340 S3: feels empowered to disrupt the whole operation nationwide of the 54 00:03:47,340 --> 00:03:50,340 S3: actions of an executive. And that's what's wrong. And that's 55 00:03:50,340 --> 00:03:52,680 S3: what's happening. It's happened 4 or 5 times now to 56 00:03:52,710 --> 00:03:54,270 S3: Trump in his first month. 57 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:58,200 S2: Let's dig into this doctor Aaron. First of all, you 58 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:02,330 S2: have what are called, as you said, federal district judges. 59 00:04:02,330 --> 00:04:07,040 S2: They're not federal national judges. Correct. So they they have 60 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,570 S2: rulings in historically, their rulings impact the district in which 61 00:04:11,570 --> 00:04:16,190 S2: they're in. These districts are created by Congress, not the Constitution. 62 00:04:16,220 --> 00:04:19,520 S2: These judges are created by Congress, not the Constitution. The 63 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,510 S2: Constitution gives Congress the power to create both. So when 64 00:04:23,510 --> 00:04:27,589 S2: a federal district judge issues, say, a temporary restraining order, 65 00:04:27,620 --> 00:04:31,460 S2: a temporary injunction or a permanent injunction, and does that nationwide, 66 00:04:31,490 --> 00:04:35,120 S2: they're really operating outside their lane, aren't they? They're grabbing 67 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,529 S2: power that a federal district judge does not have. Correct? 68 00:04:39,589 --> 00:04:44,900 S3: Yeah, it violates practice. But also obviously it violates common sense. Right. 69 00:04:44,930 --> 00:04:49,040 S3: How can you do business if one of 677 guys 70 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:54,380 S3: becomes the national authority on some major national level of policy? 71 00:04:54,410 --> 00:04:57,349 S2: And so it's really going to take the US Supreme 72 00:04:57,350 --> 00:05:00,740 S2: Court Itself to put this back in the box, isn't it? 73 00:05:00,770 --> 00:05:03,050 S2: It's going to take the Roberts Court at some point. 74 00:05:03,050 --> 00:05:08,089 S2: And Justice Clarence Thomas has raised concerns about it. Justice 75 00:05:08,089 --> 00:05:11,570 S2: Gorsuch has raised concerns about it. Justice Alito has raised 76 00:05:11,570 --> 00:05:15,530 S2: concerns about it, that it's really out of control. And 77 00:05:15,529 --> 00:05:19,970 S2: unless these federal district judges and we get a ruling 78 00:05:19,970 --> 00:05:23,390 S2: from down high on the Supreme Court are told, no, 79 00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:25,910 S2: that's not your place. They're going to keep doing this, 80 00:05:25,910 --> 00:05:28,940 S2: aren't they? Because there's really no way to stop them. 81 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:34,760 S3: That's right. And, you know, both Republican courts and Democratic 82 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,960 S3: courts have done this, Democratic courts more. But that's right. 83 00:05:38,990 --> 00:05:43,219 S3: And see, Congress has powers here. Right. It could pass 84 00:05:43,220 --> 00:05:45,950 S3: a law that says they may not do this. And 85 00:05:45,950 --> 00:05:50,990 S3: what can it not do? Remember, judging is an awesome power. 86 00:05:50,990 --> 00:05:55,280 S3: And district judges have an awesome power and they need it. 87 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,180 S3: And that is a bunch of parties show up in 88 00:05:58,180 --> 00:06:01,930 S3: front of them. Let's take the case of these fired 89 00:06:01,930 --> 00:06:06,310 S3: officials who got an injunction that they can't be fired 90 00:06:06,370 --> 00:06:09,760 S3: if they show up in court. A judge could rule 91 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:14,680 S3: that in their case, they can't be fired pending appeal. 92 00:06:14,770 --> 00:06:17,589 S3: What they can't rule is that the president may not 93 00:06:17,589 --> 00:06:20,860 S3: do such things. That has to go to the Supreme Court. 94 00:06:20,860 --> 00:06:23,680 S3: So they need to get back in their lane. And 95 00:06:23,710 --> 00:06:26,800 S3: you know, this guy in New York, Engelman, I think 96 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:27,580 S3: is his name. 97 00:06:27,610 --> 00:06:28,510 S2: Something like that. 98 00:06:28,540 --> 00:06:33,700 S3: He actually ruled that the Department of Government Official Efficiency, 99 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:36,130 S3: which is a appointee of the president of the United 100 00:06:36,130 --> 00:06:40,750 S3: States and acting on his authority, not only they their 101 00:06:40,750 --> 00:06:45,430 S3: members cannot see the data of the Treasury Department. The 102 00:06:45,430 --> 00:06:49,870 S3: appointed and confirmed Secretary of the Treasury may not see 103 00:06:49,870 --> 00:06:55,240 S3: the data, and they he ordered them to destroy the 104 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,900 S3: data they had collected it. And that just directly cuts 105 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:02,799 S3: off the president from management of. You know, one of 106 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,160 S3: the four departments of government that are actually named in 107 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,310 S3: the Constitution. There are way too many departments of government now, 108 00:07:09,310 --> 00:07:12,070 S3: but the Treasury is one of the original ones. Alexander 109 00:07:12,070 --> 00:07:15,280 S3: Hamilton was the first Secretary of Treasury. And so Scott 110 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:21,010 S3: Bessent is under court order not to supervise the operation 111 00:07:21,010 --> 00:07:23,890 S3: of his department from a New York judge. 112 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,130 S2: Well, let's get into this, because, you know, I wrote 113 00:07:27,130 --> 00:07:31,150 S2: a book many years ago about the courts, and I 114 00:07:31,150 --> 00:07:34,780 S2: indicated many of the things that these federal district judges do. 115 00:07:34,810 --> 00:07:37,510 S2: They run federal prisons, they run school systems. And you 116 00:07:37,510 --> 00:07:39,100 S2: go on and on and on and on. It was 117 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:42,490 S2: bad enough back then, 20 some years ago. But now 118 00:07:42,490 --> 00:07:46,360 S2: there's a direct constitutional confrontation, isn't there? Not between Trump 119 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,930 S2: and the courts, but the courts against Trump. And that 120 00:07:49,930 --> 00:07:59,880 S2: is basic HR decisions, basic restructuring decisions. Basic employment number decisions. 121 00:07:59,910 --> 00:08:04,200 S2: Judges now are intervening on what can and cannot be 122 00:08:04,230 --> 00:08:08,550 S2: on the CDC's website. And as you point out, this 123 00:08:08,550 --> 00:08:13,860 S2: judge and there's another one, too, telling Trump and his designees, 124 00:08:14,250 --> 00:08:18,210 S2: you don't even get access to information to determine if 125 00:08:18,210 --> 00:08:21,060 S2: there's waste, fraud and abuse. So my question to you 126 00:08:21,060 --> 00:08:24,720 S2: is this. Let's let's start at the basics. What is 127 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:29,040 S2: the executive branch under the Constitution? Who runs the executive 128 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,970 S2: branch under the Constitution? And aren't these the basic functions 129 00:08:32,970 --> 00:08:35,880 S2: of the chief executive of the executive branch? 130 00:08:35,910 --> 00:08:39,360 S3: The reason politics are so interesting and promising right now 131 00:08:39,390 --> 00:08:42,060 S3: is that the new administration has taken on the question 132 00:08:42,090 --> 00:08:45,690 S3: of who is sovereign in America and their claim and 133 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:49,170 S3: their very explicit and clear about this is that when 134 00:08:49,170 --> 00:08:53,610 S3: article two of the Constitution says the executive power shall 135 00:08:53,610 --> 00:08:57,680 S3: be vested in a president. that's what it means. And 136 00:08:57,679 --> 00:08:59,809 S3: the reason it's right for the for it to be 137 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,630 S3: vested in one person. There's a big argument about why 138 00:09:02,630 --> 00:09:07,130 S3: that's better in the Federalist Papers is that he is 139 00:09:07,130 --> 00:09:11,720 S3: elected by us and we are sovereign. Right. And so 140 00:09:11,809 --> 00:09:16,969 S3: the alternative claim is that this administrative state, which is 141 00:09:16,970 --> 00:09:21,860 S3: purportedly in the executive branch, that they are sovereign, they 142 00:09:21,860 --> 00:09:26,000 S3: are outside politics, above politics. That's one, you know, the 143 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,609 S3: progressives who invented this whole thing and has grown up 144 00:09:28,610 --> 00:09:31,670 S3: in our government over the last 100 years. They actually 145 00:09:31,670 --> 00:09:34,760 S3: argued that take it out of the hubbub of politics, 146 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,630 S3: which means taking it away from the authority of the people, 147 00:09:38,660 --> 00:09:41,300 S3: because the great thing about the president is not just 148 00:09:41,300 --> 00:09:45,559 S3: that we elected him. We can also elect somebody in 149 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,189 S3: his place, and that means he must be responsible to us. 150 00:09:49,190 --> 00:09:53,870 S3: And that's consent of the governed. It's the most fundamental thing. 151 00:09:53,870 --> 00:09:56,840 S3: And there's a question about that now. And what this 152 00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,620 S3: judge in New York appears to think is that they. 153 00:10:00,650 --> 00:10:05,240 S3: These officials, whoever they are, and by the way, they're innumerable. 154 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:09,740 S3: There's a. Scholars have been arguing for years how many 155 00:10:09,770 --> 00:10:15,350 S3: independent agencies there are. And I once spoke to a 156 00:10:15,350 --> 00:10:19,190 S3: high official in the Federal Bureau of Investigation and I. 157 00:10:19,220 --> 00:10:21,410 S3: Know him a little. And I said to him, I 158 00:10:21,410 --> 00:10:24,020 S3: hope you're not mixed up in all that mess. And 159 00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:27,890 S3: I meant, you know, them intervening in two elections. And 160 00:10:27,890 --> 00:10:31,670 S3: he said, I'm just trying to keep the agency independent. 161 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:36,020 S3: And I said, independent of what? And he paused. He's 162 00:10:36,020 --> 00:10:40,370 S3: a very good guy. Retired now. He said, I don't 163 00:10:40,370 --> 00:10:45,770 S3: think I've ever been asked that question before. Isn't that interesting? And, 164 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:50,990 S3: you know, independent of you know, I commented, I said, 165 00:10:51,260 --> 00:10:53,900 S3: do you have the authority to shoot me? And if 166 00:10:53,900 --> 00:10:57,520 S3: you do, where'd you get it? You know, and that's 167 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,360 S3: the question, isn't it? And, you know, consent of the 168 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,790 S3: governed means that for the massive monopoly power of government 169 00:11:06,790 --> 00:11:10,720 S3: to do something to somebody, it has to have consent 170 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:15,940 S3: from that somebody. And that's what's at stake in this argument. 171 00:11:15,940 --> 00:11:20,860 S3: And and the progressive arguments don't work. And, you know, 172 00:11:20,890 --> 00:11:23,950 S3: they're they first of all, they've near bankrupted the country. 173 00:11:23,950 --> 00:11:27,339 S3: And second of all, they've made it terribly inefficient. And 174 00:11:27,340 --> 00:11:29,140 S3: third of all, we're not very good at fighting our 175 00:11:29,140 --> 00:11:35,230 S3: wars lately. And that's because bureaucracy, right. This divided this idea. 176 00:11:35,230 --> 00:11:38,080 S3: It's not even really divided the idea that experts should 177 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,300 S3: rule instead of ordinary people. 178 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:44,890 S2: When we come back, I want to pursue this and pursue, well, 179 00:11:44,890 --> 00:11:46,720 S2: what do we do about it? Seems to me Donald 180 00:11:46,750 --> 00:11:48,699 S2: Trump's trying to do a lot about it. What does 181 00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:50,709 S2: Congress do about it? What are the courts do about it? 182 00:11:50,740 --> 00:11:54,130 S2: What are we the people do about it? This is 183 00:11:54,130 --> 00:11:58,140 S2: liberty and Learning episode six. I'm Mark Levin, he is 184 00:11:58,140 --> 00:12:02,160 S2: Doctor Larry Arnn. It is a Westwood One Hillsdale College 185 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,300 S2: podcast partnership. On both of our networks. We'll be right back. 186 00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:19,380 S2: Welcome back America, this is Mark Levin, and I'm here 187 00:12:19,380 --> 00:12:23,340 S2: with the president of Hillsdale College, my dear friend Larry Arnn. 188 00:12:23,370 --> 00:12:28,860 S2: This is the Liberty and Learning Podcast episode six partnership 189 00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:33,780 S2: with Westwood One and Hillsdale College, our podcast networks. Now, 190 00:12:33,809 --> 00:12:36,300 S2: Doctor Arnn, I mean, Congress has a role too, other 191 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:39,330 S2: than sitting there and watching what's taking place between the 192 00:12:39,330 --> 00:12:41,490 S2: executive branch and the courts, isn't that right? 193 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,670 S3: Yeah, Congress has a role. Of course it has a role. 194 00:12:44,670 --> 00:12:48,450 S3: This weekend I've started posting on X to give me 195 00:12:48,450 --> 00:12:50,130 S3: something to do because I don't have any time, and 196 00:12:50,130 --> 00:12:51,960 S3: also a whole new opportunity to make a fool of 197 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:56,459 S3: myself and And on the weekend, Mike Lee, a very 198 00:12:56,460 --> 00:12:58,380 S3: good senator, came up with the idea that there should 199 00:12:58,380 --> 00:13:02,070 S3: be a three judge panel with immediate appeal to the 200 00:13:02,070 --> 00:13:05,730 S3: Supreme Court, and that would be better than what we've got, 201 00:13:05,730 --> 00:13:09,719 S3: but much better than that, because that presents a danger to. 202 00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:12,390 S3: And the danger is the Supreme Court will then become 203 00:13:12,390 --> 00:13:15,090 S3: a standing body to judge everything that goes on in 204 00:13:15,090 --> 00:13:19,860 S3: the executive branch, but the branches are co-equal. Lincoln makes 205 00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:21,750 S3: the point in the Dred Scott in his speech about 206 00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:25,260 S3: the Dred Scott decision, the second law ever overturned by 207 00:13:25,260 --> 00:13:30,090 S3: the Supreme Court, that each branch takes an oath to 208 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,840 S3: the Constitution, and they must follow it as they understand 209 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,710 S3: it and not as somebody else understands it. And so 210 00:13:37,710 --> 00:13:42,060 S3: conflict among the branches is bound to happen, and the 211 00:13:42,059 --> 00:13:46,650 S3: courts only decide them finally, in some cases. And that 212 00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:49,290 S3: means we all have to have an opinion about the Constitution. 213 00:13:49,290 --> 00:13:53,400 S3: And this conflict between the branches, as is going on now, 214 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:56,719 S3: is a clue to the people that they should pay 215 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,210 S3: attention and vote for the people they like who are 216 00:13:59,210 --> 00:14:01,490 S3: on the right side of the conflict. That means we 217 00:14:01,490 --> 00:14:05,330 S3: get to govern ourselves still. But anyway, Lee's opinion is 218 00:14:05,330 --> 00:14:08,600 S3: better than what we got. The best opinion I know is, 219 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,449 S3: of course, the very great Clarence Thomas, and what he 220 00:14:11,450 --> 00:14:16,070 S3: says is the district courts should be confined to deciding 221 00:14:16,070 --> 00:14:19,160 S3: the matter. For the people who are in the room, 222 00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:22,730 S3: the ones before them, the parties to the case, they 223 00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:26,930 S3: should decide that subject, of course, to appeal and then 224 00:14:26,930 --> 00:14:30,500 S3: whatever they decide will be consequential and decisive for those 225 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:34,820 S3: people until an appeal. And then higher courts can get 226 00:14:34,820 --> 00:14:39,830 S3: involved and sort it out. And in the meantime, work 227 00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:43,400 S3: can go on in the executive branch and the Congress 228 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:47,390 S3: can continue to legislate. I think it's true. You're the 229 00:14:47,390 --> 00:14:49,370 S3: lawyer and you know more about this than I do. 230 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,500 S3: But I think it's true that Congress could pass a 231 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,280 S3: bill that said that, and that would because they defined 232 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:55,870 S3: the lower courts under the Constitution. 233 00:14:55,870 --> 00:14:57,850 S2: They could abolish the courts if they wanted to. But 234 00:14:57,850 --> 00:15:00,280 S2: here's my question to you about the proposal as you 235 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,190 S2: explain it. I'm a little perplexed by this. Number one, 236 00:15:03,190 --> 00:15:06,520 S2: Congress won't do it. Number two, it depends who's on 237 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,600 S2: this new court. So we're back at that again. And 238 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,450 S2: number three, how does that fix anything? In other words, 239 00:15:13,660 --> 00:15:16,060 S2: I guess the argument is, well, at least the other 240 00:15:16,060 --> 00:15:18,970 S2: courts aren't doing it. Well, then the other courts aren't 241 00:15:18,970 --> 00:15:21,460 S2: doing it because somebody stepped in and told the other 242 00:15:21,460 --> 00:15:23,050 S2: courts not to do it. Why don't we just tell 243 00:15:23,050 --> 00:15:24,700 S2: the other courts not to do it? 244 00:15:24,730 --> 00:15:28,060 S3: That would do just fine. And that it's better to write, 245 00:15:28,060 --> 00:15:31,150 S3: in other words, the Supreme Court when it becomes a 246 00:15:31,150 --> 00:15:34,660 S3: legislative body. It's not very good at it and it 247 00:15:34,660 --> 00:15:40,300 S3: loses prestige. Whereas if what it does is outside politics, 248 00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:45,610 S3: according to the law, strictly decide the cases that are 249 00:15:45,610 --> 00:15:49,420 S3: in front of it. And then there are appeals up 250 00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:52,720 S3: to the Supremes. And, you know, we have to remember 251 00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:58,780 S3: what the Dred Scott decision did is horrific, right? The 252 00:15:58,780 --> 00:16:03,700 S3: Republican Party was born with a plan to forbid slavery 253 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:07,630 S3: expanding into any of the land not yet organized as 254 00:16:07,630 --> 00:16:10,989 S3: states that I'm very proud to report and claim all 255 00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:14,650 S3: the time. It's true that that idea was partially invented 256 00:16:14,650 --> 00:16:18,100 S3: here at Hillsdale College in a building that still stands. 257 00:16:18,130 --> 00:16:19,060 S2: That's amazing. 258 00:16:19,150 --> 00:16:22,090 S3: Isn't it great? I just love that. And, and and, 259 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:23,920 S3: you know, it's one of the greatest acts of a 260 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,000 S3: political party in history because it devised a constitutional way 261 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,280 S3: to fight slavery without abolishing the authority of the states, 262 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,260 S3: all the new land, and that was most of the 263 00:16:35,260 --> 00:16:38,110 S3: land of America in those days, would come in as 264 00:16:38,110 --> 00:16:41,170 S3: free states, and slavery would be placed in the course 265 00:16:41,170 --> 00:16:45,370 S3: of ultimate extinction. And then in 1857, Dred Scott was 266 00:16:45,370 --> 00:16:48,760 S3: a slave who'd been taken first into a federal territory 267 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,220 S3: where there was no slavery, and then into Illinois for 268 00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:54,060 S3: a time when there was no slavery. Slavery. Then back 269 00:16:54,060 --> 00:16:57,090 S3: to Missouri, where there was. And he sued that he 270 00:16:57,090 --> 00:17:02,010 S3: should have his freedom. And Roger Taney, the aforementioned Supreme 271 00:17:02,010 --> 00:17:07,440 S3: Court chief justice, ruled in a very divided court that 272 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,750 S3: the federal government had no power to regulate slavery, including 273 00:17:12,750 --> 00:17:16,590 S3: in the land not yet organized as states. And that's 274 00:17:16,590 --> 00:17:19,770 S3: just a horrific decision. And then, you know, it just 275 00:17:19,770 --> 00:17:23,159 S3: so happened Abraham Lincoln was alive, and he got to 276 00:17:23,190 --> 00:17:26,520 S3: answer that. And his speech on the Dred Scott decision 277 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,120 S3: is one of the profoundest of his speeches and explains 278 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,139 S3: the rightful and great authority of the courts and the 279 00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:39,930 S3: limits on that authority. And his argument is that when 280 00:17:39,930 --> 00:17:42,900 S3: the Supreme Court, these district court things are just crazy, 281 00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:45,420 S3: by the way, and outside all practice for the first 282 00:17:45,420 --> 00:17:51,930 S3: 150 years of America, he said, is it a consensus Opinion. 283 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,190 S3: Does it fit with the legal expectations that prevail at 284 00:17:56,190 --> 00:18:00,179 S3: the time? Are the historical and factual claims that it 285 00:18:00,180 --> 00:18:05,760 S3: makes true? Does it violate common sense? And if it does, 286 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,450 S3: then it's worthy of great respect. But he says if 287 00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:12,240 S3: it's not, if it doesn't meet those criteria and the 288 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,350 S3: people submit to it, quote, they shall have ceased to 289 00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:21,240 S3: be their own rulers. So and now it's much worse 290 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,620 S3: than that horrific Dred Scott decision. Now, ordinary district judges 291 00:18:25,619 --> 00:18:29,280 S3: 677 of them are doing it, and we can't govern 292 00:18:29,310 --> 00:18:30,510 S3: the country that way. 293 00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:34,260 S2: Mhm. And who are these people? We don't even know 294 00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:35,220 S2: who they are. 295 00:18:35,250 --> 00:18:36,300 S3: The guy in New York. 296 00:18:36,330 --> 00:18:38,430 S2: There are lawyers who who got lucky. 297 00:18:38,490 --> 00:18:40,800 S3: Yeah that's right. Got the guy in New York got 298 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,460 S3: appointed by Obama. Another lady I think another female judge, 299 00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:47,730 S3: I think also an Obama appointee has taken over the 300 00:18:47,730 --> 00:18:52,250 S3: case now and sustained it so far. So in at 301 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,389 S3: least four big cases, things that Trump has come in 302 00:18:56,420 --> 00:19:00,440 S3: to do, like a whirlwind, are in suspension right now. 303 00:19:00,950 --> 00:19:03,439 S3: And and you know he's and you know that's the 304 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:08,780 S3: tactic right. Delay let time pass hope for relief in 305 00:19:08,780 --> 00:19:12,619 S3: the midterms right. And Trump was elected to do a 306 00:19:12,619 --> 00:19:15,020 S3: bunch of stuff. And Lord is he not sitting about it. 307 00:19:15,050 --> 00:19:18,200 S2: And I think people need to understand it's not just 308 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,260 S2: Trump's responsibility, which is I think what we're getting at here, 309 00:19:21,260 --> 00:19:25,340 S2: it is a key responsibility of his. But this other 310 00:19:25,340 --> 00:19:27,949 S2: elected entity, the United States Congress, I mean, they created 311 00:19:27,950 --> 00:19:31,730 S2: these courts. The Senate has to give its rubber stamp 312 00:19:31,730 --> 00:19:34,880 S2: on anybody that's going to serve in these courts. And 313 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,730 S2: they ought not just walk away from their responsibilities here. 314 00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:40,220 S2: I mean, I don't even know if somebody put a 315 00:19:40,220 --> 00:19:42,800 S2: bill in the hopper that already says that. Excuse me, 316 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,120 S2: you don't get to issue nationwide anything. Whatever you do 317 00:19:47,150 --> 00:19:50,090 S2: is in your district, period. And that would go a 318 00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:52,850 S2: long way in curtailing a lot of this abuse of power. 319 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:54,860 S2: So why don't they just do that? 320 00:19:54,890 --> 00:19:57,139 S3: You know, I don't know if there's a bill. There's 321 00:19:57,140 --> 00:19:59,780 S3: a bunch of smart senators. Tom Cotton should do such 322 00:19:59,780 --> 00:20:00,409 S3: a bill. 323 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:01,550 S2: Yeah, he'd be great. 324 00:20:01,550 --> 00:20:07,159 S3: And, uh, I don't who's the chairman of the Judiciary Committee? But, uh, 325 00:20:07,220 --> 00:20:07,850 S3: you really. 326 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:09,980 S2: Want to know? I think it's Lindsey Graham. 327 00:20:10,250 --> 00:20:11,330 S3: Okay, well. 328 00:20:11,330 --> 00:20:12,320 S2: If I had to guess. 329 00:20:12,350 --> 00:20:14,150 S3: He's imaginative. 330 00:20:14,660 --> 00:20:15,020 S2: He could. 331 00:20:15,020 --> 00:20:15,530 S3: Do it. 332 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,270 S2: That's a good way to put it. Yeah. 333 00:20:19,369 --> 00:20:20,300 S4: If, uh. 334 00:20:20,330 --> 00:20:21,139 S3: Yeah, they're. 335 00:20:21,140 --> 00:20:23,570 S2: Busy in Saudi Arabia these days. But anyway, go ahead. 336 00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:24,050 S2: I'm listening. 337 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,600 S4: And see, you know, the what's. 338 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,870 S3: Happened in this building of the bureaucratic state. I was 339 00:20:29,869 --> 00:20:33,350 S3: in the course of saying maybe didn't finish it, that forever. 340 00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:37,520 S3: Scholars have debated. Are there 150 or more or fewer 341 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:42,260 S3: of these rule making agencies because it's hard to count them, right. 342 00:20:42,260 --> 00:20:45,800 S3: And nobody can name them. You can't even count them? No. Well, 343 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,490 S3: the Doge has been saying lately that they have found 450, 344 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,980 S3: and that's plausible, right? Because they grow up over time, 345 00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:58,180 S3: there's no central record of them. They pass these regulations. 346 00:20:58,180 --> 00:21:01,180 S3: They've got you know, we now know look at USAID, 347 00:21:01,210 --> 00:21:05,320 S3: that they effectively have unlimited budgets. One of the things 348 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,920 S3: that Doge has reported is like, you know, Hillsdale College 349 00:21:08,950 --> 00:21:11,470 S3: is a business and your radio show is a business, 350 00:21:11,470 --> 00:21:14,170 S3: and Westwood One is a business. And that means that 351 00:21:14,170 --> 00:21:17,409 S3: it goes through three simple steps. It decides what it's 352 00:21:17,410 --> 00:21:20,530 S3: going to spend money on, and then people spend the 353 00:21:20,530 --> 00:21:24,460 S3: money or apply to get a payment made. And then 354 00:21:24,460 --> 00:21:28,570 S3: somebody checks to see if it fits with what's been decided. 355 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,160 S3: Three steps. Apparently they don't do the third step in 356 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,550 S3: the federal government. As I say, their appropriations bills and 357 00:21:36,550 --> 00:21:39,520 S3: the massive amounts of money. And if one of these 358 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,570 S3: agencies presents a bill to the Treasury, they just pay it. 359 00:21:43,690 --> 00:21:45,940 S3: And that's one of the reasons why they've not been 360 00:21:45,940 --> 00:21:49,480 S3: able to complete an audit of the Pentagon for five 361 00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:52,830 S3: years because the records are not there. They don't keep them. 362 00:21:52,830 --> 00:21:57,240 S3: That's why they're not there. So it's just limitless money 363 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,229 S3: and it just flows. Right. And of course, the people 364 00:22:01,230 --> 00:22:04,980 S3: who work under those conditions, that two things follow from that, 365 00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:09,179 S3: by the way, being in an unaccountable position. The first 366 00:22:09,180 --> 00:22:13,919 S3: is you. You treasure it. You like it. The second 367 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,610 S3: is it does not make you happy, right? Because where's 368 00:22:17,609 --> 00:22:21,780 S3: the achievement? Where's the accomplishment? Right. If all you've got, 369 00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:25,440 S3: there's no deadline. You just. I mean, what is it? 370 00:22:25,470 --> 00:22:29,369 S3: I it's been in the papers that 6% of the 371 00:22:29,369 --> 00:22:34,470 S3: federal workforce shows up for work every day. That's amazing. 372 00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:35,010 S4: Crazy. 373 00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:39,780 S3: And check in by the month. Right. And we need 374 00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:43,740 S3: to get some discipline over this, because we're $37 trillion 375 00:22:43,740 --> 00:22:46,800 S3: in debt. For what? What do we get for it 376 00:22:46,830 --> 00:22:52,190 S3: except interference? So that's that's the argument we're having today. 377 00:22:52,190 --> 00:22:55,700 S3: And these district judges who've intervened, four or 5 or 378 00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,820 S3: 6 of them. They're on the front lines of that. 379 00:22:58,820 --> 00:23:01,520 S3: And they're exercising a power they ought not to have, 380 00:23:01,550 --> 00:23:03,350 S3: do not rightfully have. 381 00:23:03,980 --> 00:23:07,730 S2: When we come back, ladies and gentlemen, Elon Musk. The 382 00:23:07,730 --> 00:23:13,700 S2: Democrats keep saying he's unconstitutional. He doesn't have this power. 383 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:17,780 S2: He's unelected. What's all that mean? We'll be right back 384 00:23:17,780 --> 00:23:20,750 S2: with Larry Arnn on Mark Levin on liberty and Learning. 385 00:23:20,780 --> 00:23:25,910 S2: Episode six A partnership between Westwood One and Hillsdale College 386 00:23:25,910 --> 00:23:40,400 S2: and our podcast networks. We'll be right back. Welcome back America. 387 00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:43,250 S2: This is Liberty and Learning with Doctor Larry Arnn, president 388 00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:47,239 S2: of Hillsdale. I'm Mark Levin here, the joint podcast of 389 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,200 S2: Westwood One and Hillsdale College. We love this partnership. It's 390 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,189 S2: so important that we convey to you real constitutional notions 391 00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:59,359 S2: and ideas about your rule of law. And that's the 392 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:02,359 S2: purpose of this program, among other things. Now, Larry Arnn, 393 00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:06,800 S2: Elon Musk, the Democrats, who, by the way, despise the Constitution, 394 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,650 S2: they've spent years telling us they despise it, that it's 395 00:24:09,650 --> 00:24:13,430 S2: too white, that it's too old, that the framers, their monuments, 396 00:24:13,460 --> 00:24:15,410 S2: need to be torn down. And then they keep waving 397 00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:18,919 S2: the Constitution in front of us. Pretty, pretty pathetic. But 398 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,939 S2: they're telling us Elon Musk is unconstitutional. How do you 399 00:24:22,940 --> 00:24:23,990 S2: reply to that? 400 00:24:24,140 --> 00:24:27,379 S3: Well, I would say that Elon Musk is in his 401 00:24:27,380 --> 00:24:33,170 S3: role as the Doge is plainly and clearly constitutional, although 402 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,119 S3: as a personal figure, he transcends any document. He's an 403 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:42,410 S3: amazing guy. True enough. You know, he's going to Mars, but. 404 00:24:42,530 --> 00:24:46,550 S3: And he made my Cybertruck and I really like it. Uh, well, it. 405 00:24:46,550 --> 00:24:47,540 S2: Drives it, you know. 406 00:24:47,690 --> 00:24:50,980 S3: Yeah. It does. Yeah. It drives itself. Amazing. Anyway, so 407 00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:53,560 S3: that guy, you know, is not constrained by much of 408 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,100 S3: anything except in this role. And that is to say, 409 00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,639 S3: he doesn't actually have any power except to find stuff 410 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,780 S3: out and report it. And only Donald Trump and his 411 00:25:05,109 --> 00:25:09,580 S3: long established agents, key among them, a really great man 412 00:25:09,580 --> 00:25:11,889 S3: named Russ Vought, who's the director of the Office of 413 00:25:11,890 --> 00:25:17,050 S3: Management and Budget. Only they can do anything. And the 414 00:25:17,050 --> 00:25:20,440 S3: Duchess comes in and finds out stuff, and they seem 415 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,530 S3: to be really good at it. And, uh, you know, 416 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,700 S3: hee hee, the way it's like, it's it's fun to 417 00:25:27,730 --> 00:25:31,120 S3: listen to the debate on both sides, by the way, 418 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:35,440 S3: because both sides are making fundamental points now. But what 419 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,459 S3: Musk does is compare it, what he sees to what 420 00:25:39,490 --> 00:25:42,609 S3: a business is like. And it's just different as night 421 00:25:42,609 --> 00:25:47,970 S3: and day and it's corrupt or unaccountable or both. They 422 00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:51,060 S3: go together, those two things. And so like that thing 423 00:25:51,060 --> 00:25:56,580 S3: about how they don't reconcile what's been approved with what's paid, 424 00:25:56,580 --> 00:26:01,140 S3: they don't take that step. And that's crazy that they don't. 425 00:26:01,140 --> 00:26:06,480 S3: And it means they can't be audited. And that's unaccountable. Right. 426 00:26:06,750 --> 00:26:10,080 S3: And and then, you know, the way he runs his company, 427 00:26:10,350 --> 00:26:13,500 S3: I saw a really funny thing. Somebody, you know, they're 428 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:17,790 S3: saying it's Elizabeth Warren. I think the senator said, uh, 429 00:26:18,210 --> 00:26:22,590 S3: it's dangerous to have a guy like Musk messing around 430 00:26:22,590 --> 00:26:28,050 S3: with the air traffic controllers. And somebody replied, hey, the 431 00:26:28,050 --> 00:26:30,030 S3: dude caught a rocket in midair. 432 00:26:30,030 --> 00:26:30,750 S2: Yeah, yeah. 433 00:26:31,260 --> 00:26:37,590 S3: So so that was pretty good. I think he's a 434 00:26:37,619 --> 00:26:41,370 S3: historic human being, and he really knows how to run 435 00:26:41,369 --> 00:26:43,830 S3: a business, and he seems to really know how to 436 00:26:43,859 --> 00:26:47,669 S3: analyze one. And so I think just the transparency of 437 00:26:47,670 --> 00:26:51,510 S3: all of this. My friend Roger Kimball keeps writing, and 438 00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:54,300 S3: I may have said it to him first. Maybe this 439 00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:58,650 S3: whole state is like vampires. They die in the sunlight. 440 00:26:58,650 --> 00:26:59,580 S3: And I hope so. 441 00:26:59,670 --> 00:27:05,520 S2: Mhm. Mhm. Now, how is it possible that a GS 13, 442 00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:08,850 S2: a mid-level bureaucrat in the Department of fill in the blank, 443 00:27:09,780 --> 00:27:13,109 S2: has all kinds of powers to make decisions about employment 444 00:27:13,109 --> 00:27:17,429 S2: funding policies and so forth. But his boss, the president 445 00:27:17,430 --> 00:27:19,379 S2: of the United States, as you note, who was actually 446 00:27:19,380 --> 00:27:22,170 S2: in the Constitution does not. 447 00:27:22,890 --> 00:27:26,129 S3: That's that's the thing, right? I mean, you have to 448 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,520 S3: go back to the early days. So progressivism comes into 449 00:27:29,550 --> 00:27:33,450 S3: America in the late 19th and early 20th century, and 450 00:27:33,450 --> 00:27:35,609 S3: it comes into America by a bunch of people who 451 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:42,420 S3: were very influenced by German thought, German historicism. And they thought, 452 00:27:42,450 --> 00:27:45,930 S3: you know, Woodrow Wilson is the most successful politically of them. 453 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,890 S3: He was president of Princeton before he was president. And 454 00:27:48,890 --> 00:27:53,030 S3: he writes in the most telling essay that the Constitution 455 00:27:53,030 --> 00:27:57,290 S3: was written in a time accountable to Isaac Newton. And 456 00:27:57,290 --> 00:28:00,440 S3: they thought of it as a mechanism. But now we 457 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,580 S3: have Darwin, and we know that everything must evolve. Government 458 00:28:04,580 --> 00:28:08,720 S3: must be a living and changing thing. And he and 459 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,750 S3: John Dewey and Frank Goodenough and those guys, Herbert Croly, 460 00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:14,060 S3: you can read about them all in the Constitution, reader 461 00:28:14,060 --> 00:28:17,750 S3: of the Hillsdale College, what they thought was, we're going 462 00:28:17,780 --> 00:28:21,320 S3: to build a new kind of state run by experts, 463 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,770 S3: and it will still be under the authority of the people, 464 00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,610 S3: but it will propose everything, and the people can veto it. 465 00:28:28,609 --> 00:28:33,619 S3: And the president becomes a national spokesman for what the 466 00:28:33,619 --> 00:28:38,720 S3: bureaucracy recommends. And that's laid out in their early writings. 467 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,590 S3: And now it has come to be. And there's a 468 00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:46,760 S3: man named James Landis who's an important author, and he 469 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:51,980 S3: writes that you won't need separation of powers anymore because 470 00:28:51,980 --> 00:28:56,510 S3: these people will have guaranteed tenure and guaranteed salaries, and 471 00:28:56,510 --> 00:29:01,010 S3: so they won't have any interest against the public interest. 472 00:29:01,010 --> 00:29:04,100 S3: And you just have to put that statement against the 473 00:29:04,100 --> 00:29:06,830 S3: best statement in the Federalist Papers, to my mind, written 474 00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:10,100 S3: by James Madison. You have to have controls on the 475 00:29:10,100 --> 00:29:14,420 S3: government because men are not angels, and angels do not 476 00:29:14,420 --> 00:29:18,230 S3: govern men. If you just compare those two claims by 477 00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:22,370 S3: Lantis and Madison, then you can decide which side you're on. 478 00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:27,050 S2: Mhm. Where do you see this going? I think at 479 00:29:27,050 --> 00:29:30,470 S2: some point the Supreme Court is not going to allow 480 00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:35,060 S2: this judicial chaos to go on under it. It's not 481 00:29:35,060 --> 00:29:37,460 S2: going to allow these federal district judges to act like 482 00:29:37,460 --> 00:29:42,290 S2: rogue individuals, Supreme Court type justices, who can just make 483 00:29:42,290 --> 00:29:45,350 S2: these decisions for everybody. I mean, at some point, I 484 00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:47,380 S2: think Roberts and the majority of the court are going 485 00:29:47,380 --> 00:29:49,030 S2: to have to step in. Don't you? 486 00:29:49,060 --> 00:29:52,150 S3: I do. I predict that they will, but who knows? 487 00:29:52,150 --> 00:29:55,450 S3: I think we know how 4 or 5 of them 488 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,260 S3: are going to vote, maybe six, probably because they're on 489 00:29:59,260 --> 00:30:04,210 S3: record about this. Four of them at least. And you know, 490 00:30:04,210 --> 00:30:07,900 S3: it's a it's a it's a very important thing. It 491 00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:12,340 S3: can't ultimately depend on them. I like to say in 492 00:30:12,340 --> 00:30:15,520 S3: a crisis like that, like the like the Civil War, 493 00:30:15,550 --> 00:30:18,010 S3: this is like the Civil War crisis, right? In the 494 00:30:18,010 --> 00:30:20,770 S3: Civil War. It was very difficult to think that we'd 495 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,200 S3: be able to get rid of slavery, and it was 496 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,950 S3: very difficult to think that it could continue. Both were hard. 497 00:30:26,950 --> 00:30:30,460 S3: It's very difficult to think that we can overcome this 498 00:30:30,460 --> 00:30:34,660 S3: massive mess, and it's very difficult to think that it 499 00:30:34,660 --> 00:30:38,080 S3: can continue and that we won't overcome it. And so 500 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,960 S3: right now, we're at a moment of crisis, which means 501 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,710 S3: turning point, right? One thing or the other. And we 502 00:30:44,710 --> 00:30:47,640 S3: have to we have to choose now to. That's another thing. 503 00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:51,360 S3: One of the things that caused the Civil War was 504 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,900 S3: that it really couldn't go on anymore, because we were 505 00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:58,530 S3: trying to settle the Western lands and, you know, Kansas 506 00:30:58,530 --> 00:31:00,990 S3: and Nebraska was the big there was an actual war 507 00:31:00,990 --> 00:31:04,500 S3: in those places. The little mini civil war, a lot 508 00:31:04,530 --> 00:31:08,010 S3: of big body count. Because are you going to take 509 00:31:08,010 --> 00:31:11,760 S3: your slaves there or not? Right. And so finally, something 510 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,200 S3: had to be done. And this is like that. Uh, 511 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:22,410 S3: we are apparently generating $1 trillion in deficit every hundred days, 512 00:31:22,410 --> 00:31:26,400 S3: and the pace is quickening. Something's got to be done. 513 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,380 S3: And and so because something has to be done, probably finally, 514 00:31:31,410 --> 00:31:34,800 S3: at last, something will be done. And one can hope 515 00:31:34,830 --> 00:31:38,100 S3: a restoration of constitutional government is what's possible. 516 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,469 S2: All right. Fantastic. We can go on hour after hour 517 00:31:43,470 --> 00:31:47,940 S2: after hour. But time is limiting. I want to thank you, 518 00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:50,910 S2: doctor Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College, as usual, for 519 00:31:50,910 --> 00:31:54,840 S2: your incredible insight. I enjoy just listening to it. Um, 520 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,410 S2: and you folks, you're listening to Liberty and Learning. This 521 00:31:58,410 --> 00:32:00,690 S2: is episode six. If you want to learn more about 522 00:32:00,690 --> 00:32:04,740 S2: Hillsdale College, it's actually quite simple. Go to hillsdale.edu. They 523 00:32:04,770 --> 00:32:10,260 S2: have a fantastic website, hillsdale.edu. They have over 40 courses 524 00:32:10,260 --> 00:32:13,590 S2: that are available to you for free. They're absolutely fascinating 525 00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:16,230 S2: and a whole lot of information in there right at 526 00:32:16,230 --> 00:32:18,540 S2: your fingertips. And they take the time and put the 527 00:32:18,540 --> 00:32:22,830 S2: resources in collecting all this information and bringing the sort 528 00:32:22,830 --> 00:32:26,190 S2: of the brilliant constitutional scholars and others to you. It's 529 00:32:26,190 --> 00:32:28,500 S2: the only college I know that does this sort of thing. 530 00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:33,420 S2: So it's very, very important. Hillsdale.edu. Doctor Larry Arnn, until 531 00:32:33,450 --> 00:32:35,760 S2: next time. God bless you and be safe, my brother. 532 00:32:35,790 --> 00:32:37,680 S3: Thank you very much. You're a great man. 533 00:32:37,770 --> 00:32:40,050 S2: Take care and see you next time.