WEBVTT - Trump Goes to China 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:09.440 Every week. Hillsdale College President Larry Arnn joins Hugh Hewitt 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:14.120 to discuss great books, great men, and great ideas. This 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:19.320 is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:25.680 More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find your audio. 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:34.440 Morning glory and evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:37.360 music means, of course, it's time for the Hillsdale Dialogue, 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:40.200 last broadcast hour of the week on the Salem news channel, 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.320 the Salem Radio Network. All of our wonderful affiliates. I 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:46.279 can't go anywhere, literally anywhere, without anyone talking to me 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:49.440 about Larry Arnn and Hillsdale dialogues. So thank you all 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:52.360 for listening and endorsing the idea that, you know, once 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:54.400 in a while you want to hear a serious conversation 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.279 with a serious person. And that includes Doctor Larry Arnn, 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.420 president of Hillsdale College. Next week is a special week. 0:01:00.420 --> 0:01:03.660 Don't miss it. It's commencement week. We're talking about commencement 0:01:03.900 --> 0:01:06.300 the week thereafter. We're coming back to Churchill. But this 0:01:06.300 --> 0:01:09.660 week we got too much news to do. Doctor, I 0:01:09.700 --> 0:01:11.940 know you're done with your school year, and so I 0:01:11.940 --> 0:01:16.580 hope you're relaxing and planning on a wonderful vacation. And 0:01:16.620 --> 0:01:19.100 you know, I go into Alaska, they got, you know, 0:01:19.220 --> 0:01:22.220 down south to the to the islands. Where are you headed? 0:01:22.780 --> 0:01:26.780 Well, I'm working we have a college cruise early next 0:01:26.780 --> 0:01:31.260 month that's going to Norway. But you know, it's a 0:01:31.260 --> 0:01:35.540 I lead a cursed life, as do you. Uh, everybody 0:01:35.540 --> 0:01:40.380 at the college except we who sort of manage the college. 0:01:41.220 --> 0:01:44.179 There's a vast sigh of relief. And I do that 0:01:44.180 --> 0:01:47.220 for about two days, and then I start remembering, oh yeah, 0:01:47.220 --> 0:01:49.100 we got to finish the year and get ready for 0:01:49.100 --> 0:01:51.860 next year. So everyone hopes that. 0:01:52.180 --> 0:01:55.620 When Doctor Aaron does a college cruise, that's the hardest 0:01:55.620 --> 0:01:58.440 work that he does because I've seen it and he 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.280 cannot walk down the hallway. He cannot walk down the 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.120 hallway without having to talk about Socrates and Aristotle. So 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.160 it's really not a normal experience, is it? It's not normal. 0:02:10.440 --> 0:02:14.160 It's fun. I like, you know, I've, I've, we've done 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.280 22 or 3 cruises. You've been on one of them 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.919 or two of them. I've never been on a cruise 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:25.400 except under those circumstances and probably will never go. But uh, 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.240 you know, it is, it is work, but it's good work. And, uh, that's, 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:30.640 you know. 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:31.560 It's an unusual. 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:32.200 Experience. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.320 And Mrs. Mrs. Yarn makes it all come together for 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.480 you because she does protect you as fetching. Mrs. Hewitt 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.840 protects me from talking too much endlessly. 24 over seven. Well, 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.400 let's do the news this week, next week, commencements, and 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:49.760 the week thereafter, we'll go back to Churchill. I want 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.480 to begin with your assessment of the big summit last week. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:58.669 It ended this week between President Trump and General Secretary 0:02:58.710 --> 0:03:01.750 XI in China. We've had a lot of summits. This 0:03:01.750 --> 0:03:04.870 one was a big one, though. We don't have any takeaways, really. 0:03:04.870 --> 0:03:06.030 What did you think of it? 0:03:06.470 --> 0:03:09.830 Well it's monumental. There's more than one way to think 0:03:09.830 --> 0:03:12.190 about what's going on in the world right now. And 0:03:12.870 --> 0:03:15.550 the enemies of the current administration say we don't have 0:03:15.550 --> 0:03:19.550 a plan. We're just stumbling around being aggressive. Some intelligent 0:03:19.550 --> 0:03:22.230 people I know think this, and I rather think it. 0:03:22.710 --> 0:03:26.549 We're in a competition with China. We're stronger than China. 0:03:26.550 --> 0:03:28.950 We have a bigger economy than China. It is growing 0:03:28.990 --> 0:03:32.830 about as fast as China's. Now they have a rapidly 0:03:32.830 --> 0:03:38.510 declining population, replacing it with robots. Above all, they're a despotism. 0:03:39.550 --> 0:03:43.590 They get 70% of their oil from abroad. And the 0:03:43.590 --> 0:03:47.870 two prime places have been Venezuela and Iran. And darned 0:03:47.870 --> 0:03:50.230 if we don't have something going on in both those 0:03:50.230 --> 0:03:54.410 places that adjusts things. So it could be that there's 0:03:54.410 --> 0:03:58.530 something strategic here, and I hope so. And pray so 0:03:58.570 --> 0:04:01.690 we don't know how the Iran war is going to finish. 0:04:02.250 --> 0:04:05.530 We don't know how it's going to affect the midterms. 0:04:05.530 --> 0:04:08.850 And that's I would bet some money that Iran is 0:04:08.850 --> 0:04:12.330 playing for the midterms. DeLay delay delay. Keep the gas 0:04:12.330 --> 0:04:16.770 prices up. Maybe they'll be successful at that. But it 0:04:16.770 --> 0:04:20.049 could be that what's behind all this is a strategy 0:04:20.610 --> 0:04:24.849 to diminish China's threat to us. 0:04:25.250 --> 0:04:28.410 Uh, you know, a year ago, over a year ago, 0:04:28.410 --> 0:04:31.930 you and I talked about Churchill and Gallipoli. That's two 0:04:31.930 --> 0:04:34.890 years ago now. And so Churchill always had his eye 0:04:34.890 --> 0:04:39.410 on the narrowest waters. Where were the narrowest waters? The 0:04:39.410 --> 0:04:42.930 straits control everything. Well, we're concerned right now with Hormuz 0:04:43.210 --> 0:04:46.409 and the Red sea, but China depends upon the Strait 0:04:46.450 --> 0:04:49.969 of Malacca more than anything else. And we got that 0:04:49.970 --> 0:04:53.190 one in a pincer movement. So they can't really be 0:04:53.870 --> 0:04:57.349 they can't really be indifferent to Iran closing down the strait, 0:04:57.350 --> 0:04:57.870 can they? 0:04:58.630 --> 0:05:01.030 No, I don't think so. Now they're you know, if 0:05:01.029 --> 0:05:03.630 you want to look on the bad side of the ledger, 0:05:04.310 --> 0:05:08.750 they just produce much more than we do, manufacture much 0:05:08.750 --> 0:05:13.190 more than we do. And there are enormous steps being 0:05:13.230 --> 0:05:17.630 taken all over America, not just by the president and 0:05:17.630 --> 0:05:21.590 his administration to beef that back up. You know, and 0:05:21.589 --> 0:05:24.430 I I'm very fond of saying that in a in 0:05:24.470 --> 0:05:28.630 a competition with a despotism, there's an asset that we 0:05:28.630 --> 0:05:32.110 have that it's very difficult for them to match, however 0:05:32.110 --> 0:05:35.150 much they spy on us, however hard they try. And 0:05:35.150 --> 0:05:38.190 right now that asset has names. The names are Elon 0:05:38.190 --> 0:05:42.350 Musk and Palmer Luckey and Alex Karp and Peter Thiel. 0:05:42.990 --> 0:05:46.950 And what these guys are is geniuses at making things. 0:05:46.950 --> 0:05:51.010 They love to do that. I read in passing this 0:05:51.010 --> 0:05:54.370 week that the Defense Department has just signed a big 0:05:54.370 --> 0:05:59.610 contract with Palantir, which is, uh, is that no Anduril 0:05:59.690 --> 0:06:03.289 and Palmer Luckey company to make. And that's from the 0:06:03.290 --> 0:06:08.450 Lord of the rings to make, uh, cheaper drones. And, 0:06:08.770 --> 0:06:13.089 you know, he's pretty good. And so, and they invent 0:06:13.089 --> 0:06:16.089 stuff and, you know, if you, if you look at, uh, 0:06:16.250 --> 0:06:19.650 I read a long article about war the other day, uh, 0:06:19.930 --> 0:06:23.650 Paul Ray, the Ray Ray who's been on your show, 0:06:23.690 --> 0:06:26.050 who's one of our guys. Very good. He sent me, 0:06:26.170 --> 0:06:29.969 he sends me the most interesting articles. And the article 0:06:30.010 --> 0:06:33.849 is by a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs. And 0:06:33.850 --> 0:06:38.610 it says that, uh, war is going to be much 0:06:38.610 --> 0:06:41.930 more fluid than it's ever been, and that weapons are 0:06:41.930 --> 0:06:47.010 going to be adapted near the battlefield on a daily basis. 0:06:47.750 --> 0:06:52.630 And it reminded me of reading about Elon Musk's unboxed 0:06:52.910 --> 0:06:58.390 manufacturing process, which. Which is a system of parallel assembly 0:06:58.390 --> 0:07:03.470 lines making. Each one makes about a quarter of the car. 0:07:04.150 --> 0:07:07.070 And they all move at speed and one slows down. 0:07:07.070 --> 0:07:11.230 It doesn't slow down the others and and they snap 0:07:11.230 --> 0:07:15.430 together at the end. And they're self-contained, each one of 0:07:15.430 --> 0:07:19.470 them as possible. So the connections are fewer and it 0:07:19.470 --> 0:07:23.950 takes in Detroit it takes 65 seconds. I read to 0:07:23.990 --> 0:07:28.030 make a car and Elon is making them at 31 seconds, 0:07:28.030 --> 0:07:30.550 and he's trying to get it down to five seconds, 0:07:30.590 --> 0:07:33.790 a car off the assembly line every five seconds. And 0:07:33.790 --> 0:07:36.830 so I think the, you know, the world is speeding 0:07:36.830 --> 0:07:41.470 up and that's dangerous, but we should have some assets 0:07:41.470 --> 0:07:44.150 in regard to that. We should be able to adapt 0:07:44.150 --> 0:07:49.010 because we're decentralized in our ways. Not as much as 0:07:49.010 --> 0:07:53.290 we used to be, which I regret, but still, effectively, 0:07:53.330 --> 0:07:54.170 were that. 0:07:54.450 --> 0:07:57.050 I want to pause for a moment on the Barracuda 0:07:57.410 --> 0:08:02.090 because I interviewed Senator Collins yesterday. She's chairwoman of appropriations, 0:08:02.090 --> 0:08:05.770 and they've approved a big, big dollop of money to 0:08:05.810 --> 0:08:10.850 the Department of Defense war that went to Palantir, to Anduril, 0:08:11.130 --> 0:08:14.010 and Anduril said, we're just going to make the missiles, 0:08:14.010 --> 0:08:16.210 and then we're going to sell them to you, the Barracuda. 0:08:16.210 --> 0:08:19.210 And it's a cruise missile, and it's a little bit 0:08:19.210 --> 0:08:21.210 slower and a little bit smaller, but it's a whole 0:08:21.210 --> 0:08:24.170 lot less expensive. And we're going to build a thousand 0:08:24.210 --> 0:08:26.530 a year for you. And this is a complete reversal 0:08:26.530 --> 0:08:28.570 of the way we've ever done it with the Pentagon 0:08:28.890 --> 0:08:30.650 at first time ever, that we're going to do this 0:08:30.650 --> 0:08:34.809 on scale, which is people are going to venture, capitalize 0:08:34.850 --> 0:08:37.890 munitions and then try and sell them to the Pentagon. 0:08:37.890 --> 0:08:40.650 It makes a world of sense to me. What does 0:08:40.650 --> 0:08:42.410 it make it? Does it make sense to you? 0:08:42.929 --> 0:08:49.120 That's the basic premise of Anduril. Uh, and that is 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:52.440 he didn't, you know, the, the way the cycle works, 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.840 you have to step back a little bit in the 0:08:54.840 --> 0:09:02.040 60s and 50s the most innovative stuff, uh, for military 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:06.599 was invented by the Pentagon with contractors, but they led, 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:10.240 they were like, we used to always talk about offshoots 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:15.199 to the private economy, into the, into the offshoots from 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:19.240 the military and the space program into the private economy. Correct. 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:22.520 And that's innovative. Yeah. Well, I used to go to 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.439 conferences at the Naval Postgraduate School every year, run by 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.679 a guy named Andy Marshall, who was the longest serving. Oh, really? Now, he. 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:30.520 You knew Andy. 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.440 Marshall well for a long time. Yeah. Oh, he. 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.480 Was the big brain of the Pentagon. The big brain. 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.439 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And what those conferences were about 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.300 were about how much the present has changed and how 0:09:45.300 --> 0:09:48.740 much the future is likely to change. And one of 0:09:48.740 --> 0:09:53.780 the key points was we now read in the paper 0:09:53.900 --> 0:09:57.540 about the inventions that are going to dominate war, and 0:09:57.540 --> 0:10:01.220 we hadn't thought of them yet, you see. And so 0:10:01.460 --> 0:10:04.460 this thing where you got, you know, you know, the 0:10:04.700 --> 0:10:08.179 like what was the computer in 1960? It was something 0:10:08.179 --> 0:10:11.340 that filled up a room. And you remember when, uh, 0:10:11.620 --> 0:10:13.579 we're old now, so we can remember things like this. 0:10:13.580 --> 0:10:17.180 And it's not that long ago, Cray made the fastest 0:10:17.179 --> 0:10:19.540 computer in the world, and we were always worried if 0:10:19.540 --> 0:10:24.380 somebody else was catching up. Now it's lots of little computers. 0:10:24.380 --> 0:10:27.980 Even a data center is thousands of little computers. And 0:10:27.980 --> 0:10:31.860 so everything's decentralized. You know, it's one reason I think 0:10:31.860 --> 0:10:33.740 we should decentralize our government more. 0:10:34.220 --> 0:10:36.740 Amen to that. I'll be right back with Doctor Larry Arnn, 0:10:36.740 --> 0:10:43.439 all things Hillsdale, by the way, at hillsdale.edu. All the dialogues@hughforhillsdale.com. 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:46.240 And the president was talking about Iran yesterday. I've been 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:50.040 talking about Iran with President Arnn right after this. Stay tuned. 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.880 Welcome back America. I get to talk to presidents on 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.120 this show. Two weeks ago, I talked to President Trump. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.000 And every week I talk to President Arnn. President Arnn 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:02.800 is the president of Hillsdale College, all things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu. President 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.880 makes a lot more sense to me because he goes 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:10.320 slower with me than President Trump does. But, doctor, President 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.720 Trump said one thing about a half dozen times to me, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.920 which was neither new nor original, but he's repeated it 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.120 probably 20 more times since then and 100 times before then, 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.400 which is Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He's kind 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:27.640 of a genius at messaging. He gets one message and 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:31.240 he repeats it until everybody in the world hears it. 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.800 What do you make? Right now, we've got reports that 0:11:34.800 --> 0:11:38.380 Iran is refusing to turn over their enriched uranium. And 0:11:38.380 --> 0:11:40.860 I think he just sits back and says, they're not 0:11:40.860 --> 0:11:42.740 going to get a nuclear weapon. What do you make 0:11:42.780 --> 0:11:43.780 of this situation? 0:11:44.420 --> 0:11:50.699 Well, um, I don't know. Of course, uh, it's unknown. Um, 0:11:51.500 --> 0:11:55.500 but I think we're in a position to get them. Uh, 0:11:55.580 --> 0:11:58.420 if we keep the political will together to get them. 0:11:58.420 --> 0:12:00.860 And the failure of political will, if it happens, will 0:12:00.860 --> 0:12:03.420 not be happening, I would guess in the heart and 0:12:03.420 --> 0:12:06.900 mind of Donald Trump. Uh, I think if we have 0:12:06.900 --> 0:12:10.820 to go back at him again, I think it'll be devastating. 0:12:11.020 --> 0:12:14.100 I think we, you know, we've hurt them really badly. 0:12:14.660 --> 0:12:17.300 Now we're looking for littler things than we were last 0:12:17.580 --> 0:12:21.420 last time, and we're looking for a bunch of enriched uranium. 0:12:21.420 --> 0:12:23.380 And I wouldn't be surprised if we couldn't go get 0:12:23.380 --> 0:12:26.420 it if we need to. I think he wants him. 0:12:26.460 --> 0:12:29.579 You know, he and remember this. So messaging. I want 0:12:29.620 --> 0:12:33.860 to repeat one point this the war aim here is 0:12:33.860 --> 0:12:37.160 not as it has been in the past to make 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.840 that country into a democracy. On the argument that we 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:44.440 cannot be free until everyone or all the dangerous people 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:45.120 are free. 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:45.840 Correct. 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.640 And the reason I don't like this argument, although it's 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:52.440 a fond hope, is that it's not possible to do 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:56.960 because you can't really do democracy for somebody else. And, 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.800 and so that's just like saying we can't be safe. Well, 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:03.560 we can't be fully safe, but we can probably be 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.920 safer if we restrain Iran. And we are doing that 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.040 and have done that with Venezuela maybe about to do 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.079 that with Cuba. And if we if we do those 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:17.760 things at a cost we can afford, then the country 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:20.720 will be safer. So it looks like strategy to me. 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.880 And he also said when Trump talks, he also said 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:28.640 to me, they're crazy. They're lunatics. And he repeated that 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:32.640 crazy and lunatic line 4 or 5 times, again using 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.660 repetition to message. and that he never says that about G. 0:13:37.260 --> 0:13:41.740 He doesn't say that about Putin because totalitarians like those two, 0:13:41.980 --> 0:13:47.380 they don't have a fanatical theology that upholds dying. They 0:13:47.380 --> 0:13:52.060 have an ideology that's totalitarian, but it likes living. Do 0:13:52.059 --> 0:13:55.060 you think that's the one disadvantage we have dealing with Iran? 0:13:55.100 --> 0:13:58.459 They are religious zealots and fanatics. That's very hard to 0:13:58.460 --> 0:13:59.020 deal with. 0:13:59.660 --> 0:14:02.780 Well, make a distinction from the past. It's always easier 0:14:03.420 --> 0:14:06.500 of of. In his last great speech in the House 0:14:06.500 --> 0:14:09.980 of Commons, Churchill gave a speech about hydrogen bombs more 0:14:09.980 --> 0:14:13.660 powerful than the original atomic bombs. And he was frightened 0:14:13.700 --> 0:14:17.939 of them. And he invented in that speech the deterrent 0:14:17.940 --> 0:14:20.860 strategy that we have followed ever since with the deterrence 0:14:20.860 --> 0:14:22.660 strategy is if you use them on us, we'll use 0:14:22.660 --> 0:14:27.180 them on you. He says that that will work, except 0:14:27.180 --> 0:14:30.500 for a tyrant in the mood of Hitler in his bunker. 0:14:31.580 --> 0:14:35.490 And and that that that he says is a blind. 0:14:35.530 --> 0:14:38.650 This is in 1955. He gives the speech. Right. Well 0:14:39.690 --> 0:14:44.050 of Stalin at the at the Iron Curtain speech in 1946, 0:14:44.050 --> 0:14:47.210 he says Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery 0:14:47.210 --> 0:14:50.530 inside an enigma. But I think there is a key. 0:14:50.970 --> 0:14:56.530 The Russian national interest. He said Russian, not Soviet. Right. 0:14:56.570 --> 0:15:00.090 In other words, he was attributed to Stalin. Gifts of 0:15:00.130 --> 0:15:05.370 calculation that might be relied on. If you placed the 0:15:05.370 --> 0:15:08.210 facts in such a condition that he would calculate not 0:15:08.210 --> 0:15:11.770 to attack. He didn't give that to Hitler. Well, I 0:15:11.770 --> 0:15:15.210 think that you can probably give that to G. And 0:15:15.210 --> 0:15:19.290 you cannot give that to the whoever is ruling Iran 0:15:19.330 --> 0:15:23.530 this morning. I don't know who that is. I agree. 0:15:23.570 --> 0:15:24.810 So I. 0:15:24.810 --> 0:15:27.330 Agree. Yeah. So I think that's the distinction. And I 0:15:27.330 --> 0:15:30.330 think Trump makes that distinction. I think he's right about it. 0:15:30.370 --> 0:15:32.750 Let me ask you about a distinction to the free people. 0:15:32.750 --> 0:15:37.350 Your in-laws not only fought Hitler, Mrs. Arden's parents, they 0:15:37.350 --> 0:15:41.310 endured Hitler's bombings and they endured seven years of war, 0:15:41.390 --> 0:15:44.830 six years of war. Americans are complaining about gas prices 0:15:44.830 --> 0:15:47.110 being up $2. They're not as high as Biden, but 0:15:47.110 --> 0:15:51.270 they're still up. Does the West have the capacity to 0:15:51.310 --> 0:15:54.820 endure a little bit of pump pain for 3 to 0:15:54.820 --> 0:15:58.270 4 months in order to bring down a nuclear threat 0:15:58.270 --> 0:16:00.430 to zero? What do you think? 0:16:01.030 --> 0:16:03.830 Well, I don't you know, we we'll see. Right. I mean, 0:16:03.870 --> 0:16:07.230 we're going to need it. I mean and and you know, 0:16:07.270 --> 0:16:11.190 it's it's one of those choices. The weakness of any 0:16:11.230 --> 0:16:16.350 human being in any political regime is the difficulty of 0:16:16.350 --> 0:16:22.270 sacrificing the now for the later. And, you know, this 0:16:22.270 --> 0:16:25.670 is all this stuff is doubtful. Will it work? And 0:16:25.670 --> 0:16:28.890 we we won't know ever what the world would be 0:16:28.890 --> 0:16:31.930 like if we hadn't done these things right. We don't 0:16:31.930 --> 0:16:34.050 know what the world would be like if Biden had 0:16:34.050 --> 0:16:38.490 not become president, because he did. And so it it, 0:16:38.690 --> 0:16:41.610 you know, he and the midterms are, you know, they 0:16:41.610 --> 0:16:44.530 don't look great right now. And the history doesn't indicate 0:16:44.530 --> 0:16:47.090 that they will be great. But we don't know the 0:16:47.090 --> 0:16:50.810 answer to that either right now. And all one can 0:16:50.810 --> 0:16:55.290 do is his best and make the arguments. I regret 0:16:55.570 --> 0:16:59.450 the I regret three amendments to the Constitution. The 16th, 0:16:59.450 --> 0:17:02.930 17th and 22nd. 16th is the income tax. The 17th 0:17:02.930 --> 0:17:06.130 is the direct election of senators, and the 22nd is 0:17:06.130 --> 0:17:09.090 term limits for the president. And it's not that I 0:17:09.090 --> 0:17:13.290 want presidents to serve three terms. I want them in 0:17:13.330 --> 0:17:17.010 their second term to be able to threaten it because 0:17:17.010 --> 0:17:19.970 it makes them it makes them more formidable. All of them. 0:17:19.970 --> 0:17:23.369 Any of them. And so I, you know, you elect 0:17:23.369 --> 0:17:25.330 the guy, you give him a run, right? If you 0:17:25.330 --> 0:17:27.550 don't like him, vote him out. but the idea that 0:17:27.550 --> 0:17:33.590 he can't run again is a temptation not to think 0:17:33.590 --> 0:17:37.710 hard enough about the next election. I'm not accusing Donald 0:17:37.750 --> 0:17:39.629 Trump of that. In fact, I think he's probably thinking 0:17:39.630 --> 0:17:42.670 pretty hard about it. But, uh, I'm saying that there's 0:17:42.670 --> 0:17:45.030 that temptation there, and it'd be better if it weren't there. 0:17:45.270 --> 0:17:48.190 Well, I also have to just say you're either for 0:17:48.190 --> 0:17:51.070 prohibition or you're against it. So there's one other amendment 0:17:51.070 --> 0:17:53.190 you didn't like, and I suspect it's the one that 0:17:53.190 --> 0:17:55.630 prohibited the use of alcohol, not the one that got 0:17:55.630 --> 0:17:57.990 rid of the prohibition. So I'm just going to add 0:17:58.030 --> 0:18:00.750 a fourth to your list. AM I right on that guess? Well. 0:18:01.750 --> 0:18:05.109 No, no, they fixed that. Right. So they got two. 0:18:06.550 --> 0:18:09.150 Do you regret giving 18 year olds the vote? 0:18:09.869 --> 0:18:11.430 Yeah, probably. 0:18:12.030 --> 0:18:12.670 So do I. 0:18:13.710 --> 0:18:18.390 Yeah. I mean, the argument you know, 16 year olds now. Right. 0:18:18.390 --> 0:18:21.430 And the argument that if you're old enough to, to 0:18:21.830 --> 0:18:24.189 die in the in the military, you're old enough to 0:18:24.190 --> 0:18:28.490 vote is a strong argument. So probably I said. Uh, I, I, 0:18:28.850 --> 0:18:32.410 I do think that, uh, I think that, you know, 0:18:32.450 --> 0:18:36.050 we make, we, you know, as a rule, I think remember, 0:18:36.050 --> 0:18:39.090 I work for a living with young people and, uh, 0:18:39.090 --> 0:18:42.129 they're a good bunch. Right? I'm very privileged with the 0:18:42.130 --> 0:18:45.970 ones I work with, but they're young. Right. And one 0:18:45.970 --> 0:18:48.609 of the ways they get older is they don't become 0:18:48.609 --> 0:18:52.530 too worldly too fast. Like what? What do you do 0:18:52.570 --> 0:18:55.250 in this age of social media where they hear every 0:18:55.250 --> 0:18:58.090 kind of claim, tell them to read a book? You know, 0:18:58.130 --> 0:18:59.850 it takes time to read a book. Learn what it. 0:19:00.050 --> 0:19:02.250 We'll come back to that very subject because I've been 0:19:02.250 --> 0:19:05.450 talking with you about Graham Plattner and his online presence. 0:19:05.450 --> 0:19:09.530 When we return, the candidate for the Democrats in Maine 0:19:09.970 --> 0:19:14.810 cruel and vicious, sexist and bigoted and their nominee. Stay tuned. 0:19:14.850 --> 0:19:18.130 Welcome back America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Uh, doctor Larry Arnn 0:19:18.130 --> 0:19:21.810 is my guest. All things Hillsdale are collected@hillsdale.edu. They got 0:19:21.810 --> 0:19:24.510 lots of free courses, including a new one on classical 0:19:24.510 --> 0:19:28.109 logic and rhetoric. They've got every Hillsdale dialogue that Doctor 0:19:28.109 --> 0:19:30.230 Aaron and I and his colleagues have done for many, 0:19:30.230 --> 0:19:34.830 many years over@hughforhillsdale.com. Doctor, I was on Fox News yesterday. 0:19:34.830 --> 0:19:37.510 I was asked to comment on Graham Platner, and I 0:19:37.550 --> 0:19:41.750 held up the Democrat opposition research file, which was done 0:19:41.750 --> 0:19:45.510 from January to April. It's the most toxic thing I've 0:19:45.510 --> 0:19:48.510 ever said. Then Janet Mills dropped out and now the 0:19:48.510 --> 0:19:51.910 Republicans are dropping their oppo. And he did not do 0:19:51.910 --> 0:19:54.470 this as an 18 to 20 year old. He's not 0:19:54.470 --> 0:20:01.790 merely cruel and verbally abusive and bigoted and homophobic, and 0:20:02.470 --> 0:20:06.470 now he's sadistic. And that seems to be paying off 0:20:06.470 --> 0:20:10.550 for him in the fundraising world. You've got El-Sayed running 0:20:10.550 --> 0:20:15.630 up there in Michigan, and he's out and out anti-Semitic, 0:20:15.790 --> 0:20:19.669 and we got candidates in the Democratic Party or anti-Semitic 0:20:19.670 --> 0:20:22.899 down in Texas. What in the world is happening to 0:20:22.900 --> 0:20:24.859 the New Democratic Party? 0:20:25.700 --> 0:20:29.260 Well, the extremes, you know, they have a voice. Part 0:20:29.260 --> 0:20:32.060 of part of it's social media. It's you know, one 0:20:32.060 --> 0:20:35.260 thing that strikes me is that I used to go 0:20:35.260 --> 0:20:39.740 around saying. There's only two kinds of people who ever 0:20:39.740 --> 0:20:43.060 got elected president of the United States high, previously elected 0:20:43.060 --> 0:20:47.340 public officials and famous generals. And now Donald Trump. He's 0:20:47.340 --> 0:20:51.659 still the only exception. But he you know, that became 0:20:51.660 --> 0:20:55.500 possible for a lot of reasons. His personal qualities are serious. But, 0:20:55.540 --> 0:20:58.980 you know, the media and social media the second time, especially. 0:20:59.540 --> 0:21:02.899 So these guys, you know, and there's a, there's a, 0:21:03.940 --> 0:21:09.939 in a, in a divided country, if 10% move some 0:21:09.940 --> 0:21:14.420 way that can make a difference, 10% is not a lot. But, 0:21:14.500 --> 0:21:18.859 you know, if the country's 51, 49 or 50, 5,010% 0:21:18.859 --> 0:21:22.280 is a huge amount. So they, you know, I mean, 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.280 right now the Labor Party is collapsing in in Britain, 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.440 I'm happy to report. And they got a massive majority 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.400 in the parliament, but they got 36% of the vote. 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:38.400 And so that's a thing, right? There's there is a 0:21:38.400 --> 0:21:43.480 part of the population that listens to crazy things, and 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.119 it is on both the left and the right, I 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:47.000 think more on the left than the right. 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.480 And what do you do on campus with your kids? 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:53.210 How do you teach my kids? I mean, you're 18 0:21:53.210 --> 0:21:56.960 to 22 year old cohort. What do you explain to 0:21:56.960 --> 0:22:02.120 them about speech and discipline in speech, and the habit 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:06.280 of not being vulgar and the habit of finding humor 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.639 the way Churchill did through art, not through profanity. 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:13.480 Yeah. Well, that's a big thing, right? So first of all, 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.740 what do we do? Everything we do is to help 0:22:17.740 --> 0:22:20.900 them become serious human beings. And that means morally and 0:22:20.900 --> 0:22:26.659 intellectually serious and serious. People learn and think before they act. 0:22:27.100 --> 0:22:29.419 And so that's the whole curriculum. I mean, the liberal 0:22:29.420 --> 0:22:33.859 arts curriculum from the time of Socrates aims for that. 0:22:34.340 --> 0:22:40.020 Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics is about lately we notice, you know, 0:22:40.060 --> 0:22:43.060 I had a big meeting with much kids, you know, 0:22:43.580 --> 0:22:47.540 because they were asking questions about Israel because they, you know, 0:22:47.580 --> 0:22:51.700 here on the internet that it's illegitimate and that, you know, 0:22:52.060 --> 0:22:55.140 and it was a very interesting conversation. It was a 0:22:55.140 --> 0:22:57.820 very good conversation. But, you know, I happen to know 0:22:57.820 --> 0:22:59.860 quite a lot about the founding of modern Israel. And 0:22:59.859 --> 0:23:03.540 I know some things about the origins of the Jewish faith, 0:23:03.540 --> 0:23:06.100 which are, you know, what, the first step in the 0:23:06.100 --> 0:23:10.540 formation of Western civilization, the covenant with Abraham at a 0:23:10.540 --> 0:23:16.520 time when religion was tribal and familial and clannish. God says, 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.119 I will be your God and you will be my people. 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:21.280 And this will be a blessing to all the peoples 0:23:21.280 --> 0:23:24.960 on the face of the earth. That's like an earthquake 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:27.960 in a time when there wasn't anything like that, right? 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:32.600 And that's 1500, 2000 years before Socrates. So I told 0:23:32.600 --> 0:23:36.240 him that. And that was, you know, that's interesting. And 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:39.200 then I happened to know the steps in the founding 0:23:39.200 --> 0:23:43.120 of modern Israel and what Lebanon and Syria and Kuwait. 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:45.520 I'm naming them Saudi Arabia. I can count them on 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:50.240 my fingers. Iran and Jordan were all founded in the 0:23:50.240 --> 0:23:54.640 same set of international movements that produced the state of Israel. 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:58.160 So one of them is legitimate. They all are. And 0:23:58.160 --> 0:24:00.919 so they're carved out of the Ottoman Empire in exchange 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.199 for a promise that if you will fight for us, 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:07.120 Britain and France, then we will give you states out 0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:10.359 of the Ottoman Empire, which will collapse was it had 0:24:10.359 --> 0:24:13.280 long been collapsing, but now will collapse because they joined 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:17.780 the Germans. So that's how those things came to be. Well, 0:24:17.780 --> 0:24:19.980 I told them, all right. And I said, you know, 0:24:20.020 --> 0:24:21.899 you got to read a book before you make up 0:24:21.900 --> 0:24:24.420 your mind about stuff like this. And it'll take years. 0:24:25.740 --> 0:24:28.300 And I hope they, I hope they pick the peace 0:24:28.300 --> 0:24:32.380 to end all peace, which is about our friend Churchill 0:24:32.660 --> 0:24:37.340 having the deciding vote on those maps. Don't go anywhere, America. 0:24:37.380 --> 0:24:39.180 I'll explain that on the other side and a couple 0:24:39.180 --> 0:24:43.060 other things, but Doctor Larry Arnn except the hillsdale.edu or 0:24:43.100 --> 0:24:56.980 Q for hillsdale.com. Stay with me. Welcome back America. I'm 0:24:56.980 --> 0:24:58.740 Hugh Hewitt, doctor. And I want to pick up on 0:24:58.780 --> 0:25:01.659 that last segment. I mentioned a book, A Peace to 0:25:01.660 --> 0:25:04.939 End the peace to end all peace. It was a 0:25:05.300 --> 0:25:09.260 story of the aftermath of World War One. When Churchill 0:25:09.300 --> 0:25:12.400 took over the Colonial Office, settled the Irish Civil War 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:14.959 and then went to find the ruins of the Ottoman 0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:17.560 Empire and drew the lines. And I can't remember the 0:25:17.560 --> 0:25:22.520 name of the Lady Edith something, who was the the 0:25:22.520 --> 0:25:25.800 mastermind who worked with him. But did those kids know 0:25:25.800 --> 0:25:28.359 that Churchill was the map maker? 0:25:29.000 --> 0:25:34.760 No, no. And but remember, remember what one's education is like. 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:37.960 First of all, when you get old like us, you 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.119 know a lot and you know more about what you 0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:43.080 don't know than you used to when you're young. Like 0:25:43.080 --> 0:25:46.240 I said at one point in passing that the first 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:49.440 Zionist in the late 19th century in Europe were not 0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:54.240 particularly religious people. And Israel's a very religious country now. 0:25:54.520 --> 0:25:58.520 But then a young man said, okay, then, what's a 0:25:58.520 --> 0:26:01.400 Jew if they're not particularly religious? And I said, that's 0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:04.240 such a great question, because, you know, if Christian Christianity 0:26:04.240 --> 0:26:07.040 is a Christian, is a is a religion of belief. 0:26:07.600 --> 0:26:09.830 If you believe you're a Christian, if you're not, you don't. 0:26:11.070 --> 0:26:14.430 And I said, so great question. I said, but what 0:26:14.430 --> 0:26:18.909 the Jews are is a people. And they've been somehow 0:26:19.230 --> 0:26:24.630 kept themselves together for what is it now? Let's call 0:26:24.630 --> 0:26:26.550 it 1500. You know. 0:26:26.670 --> 0:26:29.910 I was going to say 3500 to 4000 years. Yeah. 0:26:30.430 --> 0:26:34.470 Yeah. And and they are people, which means, by the way, 0:26:34.470 --> 0:26:37.830 that they are related like a family. And they are 0:26:37.869 --> 0:26:43.909 united by traditions and customs that have proved very resilient 0:26:44.310 --> 0:26:48.990 through every kind of change in the ancient city. Like 0:26:48.990 --> 0:26:54.510 if a city is destroyed, they destroy the temple and 0:26:54.510 --> 0:26:59.109 they sell the, uh, they kill the men or, and, or, 0:26:59.190 --> 0:27:01.910 and sell the women and children into slavery. And the 0:27:01.910 --> 0:27:05.830 city was no more. And that's not what happened to 0:27:05.869 --> 0:27:08.409 the Jews. You know, some of the some of the 0:27:08.410 --> 0:27:13.730 greatest of the Psalms are written in captivity. And, you know, 0:27:13.770 --> 0:27:16.090 some of the greatest stories in the Old Testament is 0:27:16.090 --> 0:27:22.210 stories of their return after captivity. Nehemiah, Ezra and Nehemiah. Right. 0:27:22.530 --> 0:27:28.210 So they've always been what God calls a stiff necked people. And, uh, 0:27:28.810 --> 0:27:32.490 they've held together. And, uh, you know, one of the 0:27:32.490 --> 0:27:36.850 reasons Hitler hated them was they laid claim to, you know, 0:27:36.890 --> 0:27:39.330 he didn't like Christians either. They laid claim to a 0:27:39.369 --> 0:27:42.410 God who was above him. He didn't like that, but 0:27:42.410 --> 0:27:44.370 he also didn't like them, that they had some kind 0:27:44.369 --> 0:27:49.130 of international identity. Right. In other words, in whatever country 0:27:49.130 --> 0:27:52.649 you are, you can be a Jew by sort of 0:27:52.690 --> 0:27:57.010 family reasons and tradition reasons in whatever country you are. 0:27:57.050 --> 0:28:00.449 You can be a Christian. Indeed. If you read the 0:28:00.450 --> 0:28:03.810 New Testament, you'll find out that religious freedom is the 0:28:03.810 --> 0:28:08.190 fundamental freedom because Jesus doesn't set up a kingdom. So 0:28:08.190 --> 0:28:10.310 whatever kingdom you're in has got to leave you alone. 0:28:10.910 --> 0:28:13.429 And the acts of disobedience. There's a lot in the 0:28:13.430 --> 0:28:16.950 New Testament about you have to obey the law. But 0:28:16.950 --> 0:28:19.470 every time there's an entry in the book of acts, 0:28:19.510 --> 0:28:23.430 there's an act of disobedience. It's always because they tell 0:28:23.869 --> 0:28:28.109 the disciples, stop talking about this stuff. And they say, 0:28:28.109 --> 0:28:31.350 we won't get to. We are right, and we must. 0:28:31.630 --> 0:28:41.190 You see. So the point is, monotheism is perforce transnational. 0:28:41.830 --> 0:28:45.510 And tyrants don't like it, right? Because they don't like 0:28:45.510 --> 0:28:53.550 people having claims of authority outside them. And that's the problem, right? 0:28:53.590 --> 0:28:53.990 I'm glad. 0:28:53.990 --> 0:28:54.470 You asked. 0:28:55.190 --> 0:28:57.870 I'm glad you had that conversation with him. There has 0:28:57.870 --> 0:29:02.030 recently arisen in DC the buzz that Justice Alito is 0:29:02.030 --> 0:29:05.170 going to retire again. And I have my favorites. One 0:29:05.170 --> 0:29:07.970 of them is David Strauss, who's a judge up there 0:29:07.970 --> 0:29:10.570 in the eighth Circuit. And he was one of Trump's 0:29:10.570 --> 0:29:14.490 original picks. And he's an originalist originalist that Clarence Thomas Clark. 0:29:14.730 --> 0:29:17.290 And he's always right. Even when he's losing. He's right. 0:29:17.290 --> 0:29:19.970 He's in dissent. And he's always agreeing pretty much with Trump. 0:29:20.290 --> 0:29:22.170 And so I think he'll be on a short list. 0:29:22.330 --> 0:29:24.610 And then you got any particular reason, like I said, well, 0:29:24.610 --> 0:29:28.450 he's Jewish. And they say, well that's affirmative action. I said, no, 0:29:28.690 --> 0:29:30.890 I like a guy who goes to church every week 0:29:30.890 --> 0:29:33.210 and who's aware of his past. And he had grandparents 0:29:33.210 --> 0:29:36.770 who survived the Holocaust. And I like the fact that 0:29:37.010 --> 0:29:41.450 he's both committed to his faith, but he's also committed 0:29:41.450 --> 0:29:44.410 to the Constitution. And we got to remind people it's 0:29:44.410 --> 0:29:47.410 perfectly possible to do both again and again and again 0:29:47.410 --> 0:29:49.850 and again. And so I hope your students walked away 0:29:49.850 --> 0:29:51.970 with that. We do have to come back to the 0:29:52.010 --> 0:29:54.490 the decline of the Labor Party. So don't go anywhere, America, 0:29:54.530 --> 0:29:57.130 because there was an earthquake last week in the United Kingdom. 0:29:57.410 --> 0:30:00.730 A political earthquake, and doctor knows more about that than anyone. 0:30:00.730 --> 0:30:04.470 So stay tuned to the Hillsdale Dialogue. Welcome back America. 0:30:04.510 --> 0:30:10.670 I'm Hugh Hewitt, all things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu. Hugh for hillsdale.com. Doctor, 0:30:10.990 --> 0:30:13.750 what happened to labor? They got wiped out. 0:30:14.350 --> 0:30:18.710 Well, uh, you know, they're not very good. And, uh, 0:30:18.750 --> 0:30:21.150 the swings, you know, this is a big one, by 0:30:21.150 --> 0:30:24.150 the way. You know, uh, they used to have in 0:30:24.190 --> 0:30:26.150 the C. By the way, I know more about it 0:30:26.150 --> 0:30:28.950 than anyone except someone who knows a great deal about it, 0:30:28.990 --> 0:30:31.030 but I know a fair amount about it. They used 0:30:31.030 --> 0:30:35.790 to have this swingometer. Right. And like, and it's, you know, 0:30:36.030 --> 0:30:39.390 all this is measured in seats, popular vote, you know, 0:30:39.430 --> 0:30:42.390 who gets the most pop, which individual gets the most 0:30:42.390 --> 0:30:45.270 popular vote? Not very much is decided in Britain that way. 0:30:45.470 --> 0:30:50.030 So if the public opinion loses two points, that translates 0:30:50.030 --> 0:30:54.070 into so many seats in so many swing districts. And 0:30:54.070 --> 0:30:59.470 so usually small change can make a big difference in 0:30:59.510 --> 0:31:03.530 majorities in Parliament. And these elections were local elections, councils, 0:31:03.530 --> 0:31:06.770 elections and things like that. This was a big swing. 0:31:06.810 --> 0:31:09.050 This was a lot of points. Right? And so it 0:31:09.050 --> 0:31:11.770 was just a wipe out. And it was a wipe 0:31:11.810 --> 0:31:17.650 out in Scotland and Wales especially, which are Labour strongholds. England, 0:31:17.690 --> 0:31:20.730 the biggest of the parts of the United Kingdom are 0:31:20.730 --> 0:31:24.650 the Tory Conservative strongholds. Except now they're weak there and 0:31:24.650 --> 0:31:29.930 reform is stronger. So the reform and and Tories didn't 0:31:29.930 --> 0:31:34.850 do great in Scotland or Wales. The Greens did great. 0:31:35.130 --> 0:31:38.530 A minor party and you know there'll be. Scottish Nationalist 0:31:38.530 --> 0:31:41.650 party did better. And there'll be a resurrection of the 0:31:41.650 --> 0:31:46.810 idea of Scotland seceding from the United Kingdom. If this 0:31:46.810 --> 0:31:49.690 continues on this path, that'll be the next thing I predict. 0:31:49.970 --> 0:31:53.490 And there's talk of it already. So I you know, 0:31:53.770 --> 0:31:57.810 I think it's a mess. Right. And the question before 0:31:57.810 --> 0:32:01.200 the house. You just look at what's most likely is 0:32:02.120 --> 0:32:07.480 can Nigel Farage and reform make a political majority? Because 0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:07.880 if they can. 0:32:07.880 --> 0:32:10.520 They do a deal with Badenoch. Do you think. Because 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:14.200 if those two if Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch, who's 0:32:14.200 --> 0:32:16.560 the leader of the Tories, can make a deal to 0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:19.719 divide up the constituencies and not compete against each other, 0:32:19.720 --> 0:32:22.080 we have less than a minute. Does that happen? Can 0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:25.440 they agree on that? Because they could win in 2029. 0:32:25.480 --> 0:32:26.440 If that's the case. 0:32:26.760 --> 0:32:29.800 Yeah they might. They've done it before by the way. 0:32:29.800 --> 0:32:33.120 And they felt betrayed. The reform people felt betrayed by it. 0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:36.040 So there's an obstacle there. But Kemi Badenoch is very good. 0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:41.640 And you know and another another resistance that is the 0:32:41.640 --> 0:32:45.040 Conservative Party in Britain is prides itself on being the 0:32:45.040 --> 0:32:49.320 oldest political party in the world. And so what a 0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:53.520 come down to make a deal with reform. And right 0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:56.580 now reforms are hit in the pro in the polls. 0:32:56.580 --> 0:32:58.940 It would probably mean Nigel Farage would be the Prime Minister. 0:32:59.740 --> 0:33:02.380 Not really a come down if you understand their what 0:33:02.380 --> 0:33:05.260 the Tories ought to have become in their ten years 0:33:05.260 --> 0:33:08.900 in government, but didn't because they were led by less 0:33:08.900 --> 0:33:12.340 than brilliant statesmen. Doctor Larry Arnn, thank you. We will 0:33:12.340 --> 0:33:15.500 talk again next week about commencements. Near and far, but 0:33:15.500 --> 0:33:18.820 especially in Hillsdale. And then we're back to Churchill. So 0:33:18.820 --> 0:33:21.860 don't don't despair, you Churchill addicts. We'll be back with 0:33:21.860 --> 0:33:24.940 the memoir of the Second World War and their finest 0:33:24.940 --> 0:33:26.340 hour in two weeks. 0:33:30.540 --> 0:33:33.740 Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the 0:33:33.740 --> 0:33:42.420 Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find 0:33:42.420 --> 0:33:48.500 your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to hillsdale.edu.