S1: Every week. Hillsdale College President Larry Arnn joins Hugh Hewitt
S1: to discuss great books, great men, and great ideas. This
S1: is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network.
S1: More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find your audio.
S2: Morning glory and evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. That
S2: music means, of course, it's time for the Hillsdale Dialogue,
S2: last broadcast hour of the week on the Salem news channel,
S2: the Salem Radio Network. All of our wonderful affiliates. I
S2: can't go anywhere, literally anywhere, without anyone talking to me
S2: about Larry Arnn and Hillsdale dialogues. So thank you all
S2: for listening and endorsing the idea that, you know, once
S2: in a while you want to hear a serious conversation
S2: with a serious person. And that includes Doctor Larry Arnn,
S2: president of Hillsdale College. Next week is a special week.
S2: Don't miss it. It's commencement week. We're talking about commencement
S2: the week thereafter. We're coming back to Churchill. But this
S2: week we got too much news to do. Doctor, I
S2: know you're done with your school year, and so I
S2: hope you're relaxing and planning on a wonderful vacation. And
S2: you know, I go into Alaska, they got, you know,
S2: down south to the to the islands. Where are you headed?
S3: Well, I'm working we have a college cruise early next
S3: month that's going to Norway. But you know, it's a
S3: I lead a cursed life, as do you. Uh, everybody
S3: at the college except we who sort of manage the college.
S3: There's a vast sigh of relief. And I do that
S3: for about two days, and then I start remembering, oh yeah,
S3: we got to finish the year and get ready for
S3: next year. So everyone hopes that.
S2: When Doctor Aaron does a college cruise, that's the hardest
S2: work that he does because I've seen it and he
S2: cannot walk down the hallway. He cannot walk down the
S2: hallway without having to talk about Socrates and Aristotle. So
S2: it's really not a normal experience, is it? It's not normal.
S3: It's fun. I like, you know, I've, I've, we've done
S3: 22 or 3 cruises. You've been on one of them
S3: or two of them. I've never been on a cruise
S3: except under those circumstances and probably will never go. But uh,
S3: you know, it is, it is work, but it's good work. And, uh, that's,
S3: you know.
S2: It's an unusual.
S3: Experience.
S2: And Mrs. Mrs. Yarn makes it all come together for
S2: you because she does protect you as fetching. Mrs. Hewitt
S2: protects me from talking too much endlessly. 24 over seven. Well,
S2: let's do the news this week, next week, commencements, and
S2: the week thereafter, we'll go back to Churchill. I want
S2: to begin with your assessment of the big summit last week.
S2: It ended this week between President Trump and General Secretary
S2: XI in China. We've had a lot of summits. This
S2: one was a big one, though. We don't have any takeaways, really.
S2: What did you think of it?
S3: Well it's monumental. There's more than one way to think
S3: about what's going on in the world right now. And
S3: the enemies of the current administration say we don't have
S3: a plan. We're just stumbling around being aggressive. Some intelligent
S3: people I know think this, and I rather think it.
S3: We're in a competition with China. We're stronger than China.
S3: We have a bigger economy than China. It is growing
S3: about as fast as China's. Now they have a rapidly
S3: declining population, replacing it with robots. Above all, they're a despotism.
S3: They get 70% of their oil from abroad. And the
S3: two prime places have been Venezuela and Iran. And darned
S3: if we don't have something going on in both those
S3: places that adjusts things. So it could be that there's
S3: something strategic here, and I hope so. And pray so
S3: we don't know how the Iran war is going to finish.
S3: We don't know how it's going to affect the midterms.
S3: And that's I would bet some money that Iran is
S3: playing for the midterms. DeLay delay delay. Keep the gas
S3: prices up. Maybe they'll be successful at that. But it
S3: could be that what's behind all this is a strategy
S3: to diminish China's threat to us.
S2: Uh, you know, a year ago, over a year ago,
S2: you and I talked about Churchill and Gallipoli. That's two
S2: years ago now. And so Churchill always had his eye
S2: on the narrowest waters. Where were the narrowest waters? The
S2: straits control everything. Well, we're concerned right now with Hormuz
S2: and the Red sea, but China depends upon the Strait
S2: of Malacca more than anything else. And we got that
S2: one in a pincer movement. So they can't really be
S2: they can't really be indifferent to Iran closing down the strait,
S2: can they?
S3: No, I don't think so. Now they're you know, if
S3: you want to look on the bad side of the ledger,
S3: they just produce much more than we do, manufacture much
S3: more than we do. And there are enormous steps being
S3: taken all over America, not just by the president and
S3: his administration to beef that back up. You know, and
S3: I I'm very fond of saying that in a in
S3: a competition with a despotism, there's an asset that we
S3: have that it's very difficult for them to match, however
S3: much they spy on us, however hard they try. And
S3: right now that asset has names. The names are Elon
S3: Musk and Palmer Luckey and Alex Karp and Peter Thiel.
S3: And what these guys are is geniuses at making things.
S3: They love to do that. I read in passing this
S3: week that the Defense Department has just signed a big
S3: contract with Palantir, which is, uh, is that no Anduril
S3: and Palmer Luckey company to make. And that's from the
S3: Lord of the rings to make, uh, cheaper drones. And,
S3: you know, he's pretty good. And so, and they invent
S3: stuff and, you know, if you, if you look at, uh,
S3: I read a long article about war the other day, uh,
S3: Paul Ray, the Ray Ray who's been on your show,
S3: who's one of our guys. Very good. He sent me,
S3: he sends me the most interesting articles. And the article
S3: is by a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs. And
S3: it says that, uh, war is going to be much
S3: more fluid than it's ever been, and that weapons are
S3: going to be adapted near the battlefield on a daily basis.
S3: And it reminded me of reading about Elon Musk's unboxed
S3: manufacturing process, which. Which is a system of parallel assembly
S3: lines making. Each one makes about a quarter of the car.
S3: And they all move at speed and one slows down.
S3: It doesn't slow down the others and and they snap
S3: together at the end. And they're self-contained, each one of
S3: them as possible. So the connections are fewer and it
S3: takes in Detroit it takes 65 seconds. I read to
S3: make a car and Elon is making them at 31 seconds,
S3: and he's trying to get it down to five seconds,
S3: a car off the assembly line every five seconds. And
S3: so I think the, you know, the world is speeding
S3: up and that's dangerous, but we should have some assets
S3: in regard to that. We should be able to adapt
S3: because we're decentralized in our ways. Not as much as
S3: we used to be, which I regret, but still, effectively,
S3: were that.
S2: I want to pause for a moment on the Barracuda
S2: because I interviewed Senator Collins yesterday. She's chairwoman of appropriations,
S2: and they've approved a big, big dollop of money to
S2: the Department of Defense war that went to Palantir, to Anduril,
S2: and Anduril said, we're just going to make the missiles,
S2: and then we're going to sell them to you, the Barracuda.
S2: And it's a cruise missile, and it's a little bit
S2: slower and a little bit smaller, but it's a whole
S2: lot less expensive. And we're going to build a thousand
S2: a year for you. And this is a complete reversal
S2: of the way we've ever done it with the Pentagon
S2: at first time ever, that we're going to do this
S2: on scale, which is people are going to venture, capitalize
S2: munitions and then try and sell them to the Pentagon.
S2: It makes a world of sense to me. What does
S2: it make it? Does it make sense to you?
S3: That's the basic premise of Anduril. Uh, and that is
S3: he didn't, you know, the, the way the cycle works,
S3: you have to step back a little bit in the
S3: 60s and 50s the most innovative stuff, uh, for military
S3: was invented by the Pentagon with contractors, but they led,
S3: they were like, we used to always talk about offshoots
S3: to the private economy, into the, into the offshoots from
S3: the military and the space program into the private economy. Correct.
S3: And that's innovative. Yeah. Well, I used to go to
S3: conferences at the Naval Postgraduate School every year, run by
S3: a guy named Andy Marshall, who was the longest serving. Oh, really? Now, he.
S2: You knew Andy.
S3: Marshall well for a long time. Yeah. Oh, he.
S2: Was the big brain of the Pentagon. The big brain.
S3: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And what those conferences were about
S3: were about how much the present has changed and how
S3: much the future is likely to change. And one of
S3: the key points was we now read in the paper
S3: about the inventions that are going to dominate war, and
S3: we hadn't thought of them yet, you see. And so
S3: this thing where you got, you know, you know, the
S3: like what was the computer in 1960? It was something
S3: that filled up a room. And you remember when, uh,
S3: we're old now, so we can remember things like this.
S3: And it's not that long ago, Cray made the fastest
S3: computer in the world, and we were always worried if
S3: somebody else was catching up. Now it's lots of little computers.
S3: Even a data center is thousands of little computers. And
S3: so everything's decentralized. You know, it's one reason I think
S3: we should decentralize our government more.
S2: Amen to that. I'll be right back with Doctor Larry Arnn,
S2: all things Hillsdale, by the way, at hillsdale.edu. All the dialogues@hughforhillsdale.com.
S2: And the president was talking about Iran yesterday. I've been
S2: talking about Iran with President Arnn right after this. Stay tuned.
S2: Welcome back America. I get to talk to presidents on
S2: this show. Two weeks ago, I talked to President Trump.
S2: And every week I talk to President Arnn. President Arnn
S2: is the president of Hillsdale College, all things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu. President
S2: makes a lot more sense to me because he goes
S2: slower with me than President Trump does. But, doctor, President
S2: Trump said one thing about a half dozen times to me,
S2: which was neither new nor original, but he's repeated it
S2: probably 20 more times since then and 100 times before then,
S2: which is Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. He's kind
S2: of a genius at messaging. He gets one message and
S2: he repeats it until everybody in the world hears it.
S2: What do you make? Right now, we've got reports that
S2: Iran is refusing to turn over their enriched uranium. And
S2: I think he just sits back and says, they're not
S2: going to get a nuclear weapon. What do you make
S2: of this situation?
S3: Well, um, I don't know. Of course, uh, it's unknown. Um,
S3: but I think we're in a position to get them. Uh,
S3: if we keep the political will together to get them.
S3: And the failure of political will, if it happens, will
S3: not be happening, I would guess in the heart and
S3: mind of Donald Trump. Uh, I think if we have
S3: to go back at him again, I think it'll be devastating.
S3: I think we, you know, we've hurt them really badly.
S3: Now we're looking for littler things than we were last
S3: last time, and we're looking for a bunch of enriched uranium.
S3: And I wouldn't be surprised if we couldn't go get
S3: it if we need to. I think he wants him.
S3: You know, he and remember this. So messaging. I want
S3: to repeat one point this the war aim here is
S3: not as it has been in the past to make
S3: that country into a democracy. On the argument that we
S3: cannot be free until everyone or all the dangerous people
S3: are free.
S2: Correct.
S3: And the reason I don't like this argument, although it's
S3: a fond hope, is that it's not possible to do
S3: because you can't really do democracy for somebody else. And,
S3: and so that's just like saying we can't be safe. Well,
S3: we can't be fully safe, but we can probably be
S3: safer if we restrain Iran. And we are doing that
S3: and have done that with Venezuela maybe about to do
S3: that with Cuba. And if we if we do those
S3: things at a cost we can afford, then the country
S3: will be safer. So it looks like strategy to me.
S2: And he also said when Trump talks, he also said
S2: to me, they're crazy. They're lunatics. And he repeated that
S2: crazy and lunatic line 4 or 5 times, again using
S2: repetition to message. and that he never says that about G.
S2: He doesn't say that about Putin because totalitarians like those two,
S2: they don't have a fanatical theology that upholds dying. They
S2: have an ideology that's totalitarian, but it likes living. Do
S2: you think that's the one disadvantage we have dealing with Iran?
S2: They are religious zealots and fanatics. That's very hard to
S2: deal with.
S3: Well, make a distinction from the past. It's always easier
S3: of of. In his last great speech in the House
S3: of Commons, Churchill gave a speech about hydrogen bombs more
S3: powerful than the original atomic bombs. And he was frightened
S3: of them. And he invented in that speech the deterrent
S3: strategy that we have followed ever since with the deterrence
S3: strategy is if you use them on us, we'll use
S3: them on you. He says that that will work, except
S3: for a tyrant in the mood of Hitler in his bunker.
S3: And and that that that he says is a blind.
S3: This is in 1955. He gives the speech. Right. Well
S3: of Stalin at the at the Iron Curtain speech in 1946,
S3: he says Russia is a riddle wrapped in a mystery
S3: inside an enigma. But I think there is a key.
S3: The Russian national interest. He said Russian, not Soviet. Right.
S3: In other words, he was attributed to Stalin. Gifts of
S3: calculation that might be relied on. If you placed the
S3: facts in such a condition that he would calculate not
S3: to attack. He didn't give that to Hitler. Well, I
S3: think that you can probably give that to G. And
S3: you cannot give that to the whoever is ruling Iran
S3: this morning. I don't know who that is. I agree.
S2: So I.
S3: Agree. Yeah. So I think that's the distinction. And I
S3: think Trump makes that distinction. I think he's right about it.
S2: Let me ask you about a distinction to the free people.
S2: Your in-laws not only fought Hitler, Mrs. Arden's parents, they
S2: endured Hitler's bombings and they endured seven years of war,
S2: six years of war. Americans are complaining about gas prices
S2: being up $2. They're not as high as Biden, but
S2: they're still up. Does the West have the capacity to
S2: endure a little bit of pump pain for 3 to
S2: 4 months in order to bring down a nuclear threat
S2: to zero? What do you think?
S3: Well, I don't you know, we we'll see. Right. I mean,
S3: we're going to need it. I mean and and you know,
S3: it's it's one of those choices. The weakness of any
S3: human being in any political regime is the difficulty of
S3: sacrificing the now for the later. And, you know, this
S3: is all this stuff is doubtful. Will it work? And
S3: we we won't know ever what the world would be
S3: like if we hadn't done these things right. We don't
S3: know what the world would be like if Biden had
S3: not become president, because he did. And so it it,
S3: you know, he and the midterms are, you know, they
S3: don't look great right now. And the history doesn't indicate
S3: that they will be great. But we don't know the
S3: answer to that either right now. And all one can
S3: do is his best and make the arguments. I regret
S3: the I regret three amendments to the Constitution. The 16th,
S3: 17th and 22nd. 16th is the income tax. The 17th
S3: is the direct election of senators, and the 22nd is
S3: term limits for the president. And it's not that I
S3: want presidents to serve three terms. I want them in
S3: their second term to be able to threaten it because
S3: it makes them it makes them more formidable. All of them.
S3: Any of them. And so I, you know, you elect
S3: the guy, you give him a run, right? If you
S3: don't like him, vote him out. but the idea that
S3: he can't run again is a temptation not to think
S3: hard enough about the next election. I'm not accusing Donald
S3: Trump of that. In fact, I think he's probably thinking
S3: pretty hard about it. But, uh, I'm saying that there's
S3: that temptation there, and it'd be better if it weren't there.
S2: Well, I also have to just say you're either for
S2: prohibition or you're against it. So there's one other amendment
S2: you didn't like, and I suspect it's the one that
S2: prohibited the use of alcohol, not the one that got
S2: rid of the prohibition. So I'm just going to add
S2: a fourth to your list. AM I right on that guess? Well.
S3: No, no, they fixed that. Right. So they got two.
S2: Do you regret giving 18 year olds the vote?
S3: Yeah, probably.
S2: So do I.
S3: Yeah. I mean, the argument you know, 16 year olds now. Right.
S3: And the argument that if you're old enough to, to
S3: die in the in the military, you're old enough to
S3: vote is a strong argument. So probably I said. Uh, I, I,
S3: I do think that, uh, I think that, you know,
S3: we make, we, you know, as a rule, I think remember,
S3: I work for a living with young people and, uh,
S3: they're a good bunch. Right? I'm very privileged with the
S3: ones I work with, but they're young. Right. And one
S3: of the ways they get older is they don't become
S3: too worldly too fast. Like what? What do you do
S3: in this age of social media where they hear every
S3: kind of claim, tell them to read a book? You know,
S3: it takes time to read a book. Learn what it.
S2: We'll come back to that very subject because I've been
S2: talking with you about Graham Plattner and his online presence.
S2: When we return, the candidate for the Democrats in Maine
S2: cruel and vicious, sexist and bigoted and their nominee. Stay tuned.
S2: Welcome back America. I'm Hugh Hewitt. Uh, doctor Larry Arnn
S2: is my guest. All things Hillsdale are collected@hillsdale.edu. They got
S2: lots of free courses, including a new one on classical
S2: logic and rhetoric. They've got every Hillsdale dialogue that Doctor
S2: Aaron and I and his colleagues have done for many,
S2: many years over@hughforhillsdale.com. Doctor, I was on Fox News yesterday.
S2: I was asked to comment on Graham Platner, and I
S2: held up the Democrat opposition research file, which was done
S2: from January to April. It's the most toxic thing I've
S2: ever said. Then Janet Mills dropped out and now the
S2: Republicans are dropping their oppo. And he did not do
S2: this as an 18 to 20 year old. He's not
S2: merely cruel and verbally abusive and bigoted and homophobic, and
S2: now he's sadistic. And that seems to be paying off
S2: for him in the fundraising world. You've got El-Sayed running
S2: up there in Michigan, and he's out and out anti-Semitic,
S2: and we got candidates in the Democratic Party or anti-Semitic
S2: down in Texas. What in the world is happening to
S2: the New Democratic Party?
S3: Well, the extremes, you know, they have a voice. Part
S3: of part of it's social media. It's you know, one
S3: thing that strikes me is that I used to go
S3: around saying. There's only two kinds of people who ever
S3: got elected president of the United States high, previously elected
S3: public officials and famous generals. And now Donald Trump. He's
S3: still the only exception. But he you know, that became
S3: possible for a lot of reasons. His personal qualities are serious. But,
S3: you know, the media and social media the second time, especially.
S3: So these guys, you know, and there's a, there's a,
S3: in a, in a divided country, if 10% move some
S3: way that can make a difference, 10% is not a lot. But,
S3: you know, if the country's 51, 49 or 50, 5,010%
S3: is a huge amount. So they, you know, I mean,
S3: right now the Labor Party is collapsing in in Britain,
S3: I'm happy to report. And they got a massive majority
S3: in the parliament, but they got 36% of the vote.
S3: And so that's a thing, right? There's there is a
S3: part of the population that listens to crazy things, and
S3: it is on both the left and the right, I
S3: think more on the left than the right.
S2: And what do you do on campus with your kids?
S2: How do you teach my kids? I mean, you're 18
S2: to 22 year old cohort. What do you explain to
S2: them about speech and discipline in speech, and the habit
S2: of not being vulgar and the habit of finding humor
S2: the way Churchill did through art, not through profanity.
S3: Yeah. Well, that's a big thing, right? So first of all,
S3: what do we do? Everything we do is to help
S3: them become serious human beings. And that means morally and
S3: intellectually serious and serious. People learn and think before they act.
S3: And so that's the whole curriculum. I mean, the liberal
S3: arts curriculum from the time of Socrates aims for that.
S3: Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics is about lately we notice, you know,
S3: I had a big meeting with much kids, you know,
S3: because they were asking questions about Israel because they, you know,
S3: here on the internet that it's illegitimate and that, you know,
S3: and it was a very interesting conversation. It was a
S3: very good conversation. But, you know, I happen to know
S3: quite a lot about the founding of modern Israel. And
S3: I know some things about the origins of the Jewish faith,
S3: which are, you know, what, the first step in the
S3: formation of Western civilization, the covenant with Abraham at a
S3: time when religion was tribal and familial and clannish. God says,
S3: I will be your God and you will be my people.
S3: And this will be a blessing to all the peoples
S3: on the face of the earth. That's like an earthquake
S3: in a time when there wasn't anything like that, right?
S3: And that's 1500, 2000 years before Socrates. So I told
S3: him that. And that was, you know, that's interesting. And
S3: then I happened to know the steps in the founding
S3: of modern Israel and what Lebanon and Syria and Kuwait.
S3: I'm naming them Saudi Arabia. I can count them on
S3: my fingers. Iran and Jordan were all founded in the
S3: same set of international movements that produced the state of Israel.
S3: So one of them is legitimate. They all are. And
S3: so they're carved out of the Ottoman Empire in exchange
S3: for a promise that if you will fight for us,
S3: Britain and France, then we will give you states out
S3: of the Ottoman Empire, which will collapse was it had
S3: long been collapsing, but now will collapse because they joined
S3: the Germans. So that's how those things came to be. Well,
S3: I told them, all right. And I said, you know,
S3: you got to read a book before you make up
S3: your mind about stuff like this. And it'll take years.
S2: And I hope they, I hope they pick the peace
S2: to end all peace, which is about our friend Churchill
S2: having the deciding vote on those maps. Don't go anywhere, America.
S2: I'll explain that on the other side and a couple
S2: other things, but Doctor Larry Arnn except the hillsdale.edu or
S2: Q for hillsdale.com. Stay with me. Welcome back America. I'm
S2: Hugh Hewitt, doctor. And I want to pick up on
S2: that last segment. I mentioned a book, A Peace to
S2: End the peace to end all peace. It was a
S2: story of the aftermath of World War One. When Churchill
S2: took over the Colonial Office, settled the Irish Civil War
S2: and then went to find the ruins of the Ottoman
S2: Empire and drew the lines. And I can't remember the
S2: name of the Lady Edith something, who was the the
S2: mastermind who worked with him. But did those kids know
S2: that Churchill was the map maker?
S3: No, no. And but remember, remember what one's education is like.
S3: First of all, when you get old like us, you
S3: know a lot and you know more about what you
S3: don't know than you used to when you're young. Like
S3: I said at one point in passing that the first
S3: Zionist in the late 19th century in Europe were not
S3: particularly religious people. And Israel's a very religious country now.
S3: But then a young man said, okay, then, what's a
S3: Jew if they're not particularly religious? And I said, that's
S3: such a great question, because, you know, if Christian Christianity
S3: is a Christian, is a is a religion of belief.
S3: If you believe you're a Christian, if you're not, you don't.
S3: And I said, so great question. I said, but what
S3: the Jews are is a people. And they've been somehow
S3: kept themselves together for what is it now? Let's call
S3: it 1500. You know.
S2: I was going to say 3500 to 4000 years. Yeah.
S3: Yeah. And and they are people, which means, by the way,
S3: that they are related like a family. And they are
S3: united by traditions and customs that have proved very resilient
S3: through every kind of change in the ancient city. Like
S3: if a city is destroyed, they destroy the temple and
S3: they sell the, uh, they kill the men or, and, or,
S3: and sell the women and children into slavery. And the
S3: city was no more. And that's not what happened to
S3: the Jews. You know, some of the some of the
S3: greatest of the Psalms are written in captivity. And, you know,
S3: some of the greatest stories in the Old Testament is
S3: stories of their return after captivity. Nehemiah, Ezra and Nehemiah. Right.
S3: So they've always been what God calls a stiff necked people. And, uh,
S3: they've held together. And, uh, you know, one of the
S3: reasons Hitler hated them was they laid claim to, you know,
S3: he didn't like Christians either. They laid claim to a
S3: God who was above him. He didn't like that, but
S3: he also didn't like them, that they had some kind
S3: of international identity. Right. In other words, in whatever country
S3: you are, you can be a Jew by sort of
S3: family reasons and tradition reasons in whatever country you are.
S3: You can be a Christian. Indeed. If you read the
S3: New Testament, you'll find out that religious freedom is the
S3: fundamental freedom because Jesus doesn't set up a kingdom. So
S3: whatever kingdom you're in has got to leave you alone.
S3: And the acts of disobedience. There's a lot in the
S3: New Testament about you have to obey the law. But
S3: every time there's an entry in the book of acts,
S3: there's an act of disobedience. It's always because they tell
S3: the disciples, stop talking about this stuff. And they say,
S3: we won't get to. We are right, and we must.
S3: You see. So the point is, monotheism is perforce transnational.
S3: And tyrants don't like it, right? Because they don't like
S3: people having claims of authority outside them. And that's the problem, right?
S2: I'm glad.
S3: You asked.
S2: I'm glad you had that conversation with him. There has
S2: recently arisen in DC the buzz that Justice Alito is
S2: going to retire again. And I have my favorites. One
S2: of them is David Strauss, who's a judge up there
S2: in the eighth Circuit. And he was one of Trump's
S2: original picks. And he's an originalist originalist that Clarence Thomas Clark.
S2: And he's always right. Even when he's losing. He's right.
S2: He's in dissent. And he's always agreeing pretty much with Trump.
S2: And so I think he'll be on a short list.
S2: And then you got any particular reason, like I said, well,
S2: he's Jewish. And they say, well that's affirmative action. I said, no,
S2: I like a guy who goes to church every week
S2: and who's aware of his past. And he had grandparents
S2: who survived the Holocaust. And I like the fact that
S2: he's both committed to his faith, but he's also committed
S2: to the Constitution. And we got to remind people it's
S2: perfectly possible to do both again and again and again
S2: and again. And so I hope your students walked away
S2: with that. We do have to come back to the
S2: the decline of the Labor Party. So don't go anywhere, America,
S2: because there was an earthquake last week in the United Kingdom.
S2: A political earthquake, and doctor knows more about that than anyone.
S2: So stay tuned to the Hillsdale Dialogue. Welcome back America.
S2: I'm Hugh Hewitt, all things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu. Hugh for hillsdale.com. Doctor,
S2: what happened to labor? They got wiped out.
S3: Well, uh, you know, they're not very good. And, uh,
S3: the swings, you know, this is a big one, by
S3: the way. You know, uh, they used to have in
S3: the C. By the way, I know more about it
S3: than anyone except someone who knows a great deal about it,
S3: but I know a fair amount about it. They used
S3: to have this swingometer. Right. And like, and it's, you know,
S3: all this is measured in seats, popular vote, you know,
S3: who gets the most pop, which individual gets the most
S3: popular vote? Not very much is decided in Britain that way.
S3: So if the public opinion loses two points, that translates
S3: into so many seats in so many swing districts. And
S3: so usually small change can make a big difference in
S3: majorities in Parliament. And these elections were local elections, councils,
S3: elections and things like that. This was a big swing.
S3: This was a lot of points. Right? And so it
S3: was just a wipe out. And it was a wipe
S3: out in Scotland and Wales especially, which are Labour strongholds. England,
S3: the biggest of the parts of the United Kingdom are
S3: the Tory Conservative strongholds. Except now they're weak there and
S3: reform is stronger. So the reform and and Tories didn't
S3: do great in Scotland or Wales. The Greens did great.
S3: A minor party and you know there'll be. Scottish Nationalist
S3: party did better. And there'll be a resurrection of the
S3: idea of Scotland seceding from the United Kingdom. If this
S3: continues on this path, that'll be the next thing I predict.
S3: And there's talk of it already. So I you know,
S3: I think it's a mess. Right. And the question before
S3: the house. You just look at what's most likely is
S3: can Nigel Farage and reform make a political majority? Because
S3: if they can.
S2: They do a deal with Badenoch. Do you think. Because
S2: if those two if Nigel Farage and Kemi Badenoch, who's
S2: the leader of the Tories, can make a deal to
S2: divide up the constituencies and not compete against each other,
S2: we have less than a minute. Does that happen? Can
S2: they agree on that? Because they could win in 2029.
S2: If that's the case.
S3: Yeah they might. They've done it before by the way.
S3: And they felt betrayed. The reform people felt betrayed by it.
S3: So there's an obstacle there. But Kemi Badenoch is very good.
S3: And you know and another another resistance that is the
S3: Conservative Party in Britain is prides itself on being the
S3: oldest political party in the world. And so what a
S3: come down to make a deal with reform. And right
S3: now reforms are hit in the pro in the polls.
S3: It would probably mean Nigel Farage would be the Prime Minister.
S2: Not really a come down if you understand their what
S2: the Tories ought to have become in their ten years
S2: in government, but didn't because they were led by less
S2: than brilliant statesmen. Doctor Larry Arnn, thank you. We will
S2: talk again next week about commencements. Near and far, but
S2: especially in Hillsdale. And then we're back to Churchill. So
S2: don't don't despair, you Churchill addicts. We'll be back with
S2: the memoir of the Second World War and their finest
S2: hour in two weeks.
S1: Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the
S1: Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find
S1: your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to hillsdale.edu.