WEBVTT - 250 Years of America 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:09.440 Every week. Hillsdale College President Larry Arnn joins Hugh Hewitt 0:00:09.440 --> 0:00:14.120 to discuss great books, great men, and great ideas. This 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:19.320 is Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:25.680 More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find your audio. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.000 Morning glory and evening Grace America. I'm Hugh Hewitt, welcome 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.280 to Hillsdale Dialogue. It's a special Hillsdale dialogue. They're all 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:39.479 kind of special. I think highly of them. Many people do. 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:42.200 We're glad to have the following that we have all 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:49.519 things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu. All the dialogues are collected@hughforhillsdale.com, and if you 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.680 go over to hillsdale.edu, you'll find them all sorted out 0:00:52.680 --> 0:00:55.400 there and and arranged for you to pick the subject 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.280 matter and go deep. But as we approach the 250th 0:00:59.410 --> 0:01:03.010 anniversary of the vote on the Declaration of Independence. I 0:01:03.010 --> 0:01:05.850 thought we would devote a program to the Genius of 0:01:05.850 --> 0:01:09.570 America with Doctor Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College. He 0:01:09.610 --> 0:01:12.450 is also the author of a book called The Founders Key. 0:01:12.810 --> 0:01:14.850 He has made it part of his life's work to 0:01:14.890 --> 0:01:21.209 understand the declaration, to understand Lincoln's reliance upon the declaration, 0:01:21.490 --> 0:01:25.410 as well as a great half American, Winston Churchill. So 0:01:25.410 --> 0:01:28.369 let's go way back to the founders key doctrine to 0:01:28.370 --> 0:01:32.010 start this off. You studied that era. Why? Why were 0:01:32.010 --> 0:01:35.170 you attracted to that era and write that book and, 0:01:35.490 --> 0:01:36.929 and study with Harry Jaffa? 0:01:37.170 --> 0:01:40.770 Well, um, I'm an American and I grew up on 0:01:40.770 --> 0:01:45.170 stories of the American Revolution. I love the Lexington and 0:01:45.170 --> 0:01:48.090 Concord story where we took on the mighty British. Very 0:01:48.090 --> 0:01:51.210 well told in this movie. We've been talking about. And 0:01:51.210 --> 0:01:53.730 you know how we use different tactics than the British 0:01:53.730 --> 0:01:57.490 had ever encountered before. And they were the tactics of 0:01:57.490 --> 0:02:03.740 a free people spontaneously organizing themselves. And that's always been 0:02:03.740 --> 0:02:07.140 the strength of the American military. So I love those stories. 0:02:07.140 --> 0:02:09.540 And then, you know, I grew up in the in 0:02:09.580 --> 0:02:14.339 the 60s and 70s and everything is controversial, not as 0:02:14.340 --> 0:02:18.299 controversial as right now, but everything is controversial. And the 0:02:18.300 --> 0:02:21.739 question is, is this a good country or not? And 0:02:21.740 --> 0:02:24.500 to identify what the country is, you have to figure out. 0:02:24.500 --> 0:02:25.940 The first thing you have to figure out is what 0:02:25.940 --> 0:02:29.820 is its final cause for what does it stand? And 0:02:29.820 --> 0:02:32.460 the answer to that is in the Declaration of Independence. 0:02:32.780 --> 0:02:36.180 And Professor Jaffa, you know, I grew up in New York, 0:02:36.180 --> 0:02:39.460 a Jewish man. He fell in love with it, uh, 0:02:39.460 --> 0:02:44.780 through reading a book, a publication of the Lincoln-Douglas debates. 0:02:45.100 --> 0:02:49.139 And he watched Lincoln put that document to motion to 0:02:49.180 --> 0:02:51.500 deal with the crisis of the Civil War, which is 0:02:51.500 --> 0:02:55.300 our worst crisis except for the revolution. And, you know, 0:02:55.340 --> 0:02:58.260 I think the crisis in which we are today approaches 0:02:58.260 --> 0:03:02.780 those crises. So, of course, if you want to understand America, 0:03:02.780 --> 0:03:06.380 that's where you start, because that's where America started. And 0:03:06.380 --> 0:03:09.940 then it's a very unusual document because it gives the 0:03:09.940 --> 0:03:14.899 reasons for the country. It does. It's two it has 0:03:14.900 --> 0:03:18.260 three purposes, and it's divided into three sections. It's about 0:03:18.260 --> 0:03:24.859 1400 words long. The first section is some universal principles 0:03:25.220 --> 0:03:30.620 applying to everyone, everyone who ever lived any place. Uh, 0:03:31.340 --> 0:03:35.780 and then in the name of those principles at the end, 0:03:35.820 --> 0:03:39.740 the third section, they do the formal act of forming 0:03:39.740 --> 0:03:43.460 a country, an act of treason against the former rulers. 0:03:44.100 --> 0:03:47.820 In the name of those principles, God appears four times, 0:03:48.220 --> 0:03:51.780 always in the discussion of those principles at the very beginning. 0:03:51.780 --> 0:03:55.140 And the very end is where they're located. Uh, first, 0:03:55.140 --> 0:03:57.630 God is the maker of the laws of nature and 0:03:57.630 --> 0:04:02.430 nature's God. Then he's the creator, like a founder. Then 0:04:02.470 --> 0:04:07.030 he's the supreme Judge of the world. Kind of fellow 0:04:07.030 --> 0:04:11.670 before him whom Lawyer Hewitt would argue. And finally, he's 0:04:11.670 --> 0:04:18.190 divine Providence. That is the executive. And so God appears 0:04:18.190 --> 0:04:21.390 four times as all of the branches of government and 0:04:21.390 --> 0:04:26.230 the founder. And then the middle section describes the form 0:04:26.230 --> 0:04:28.549 of government. That would be right. It is the form 0:04:28.550 --> 0:04:34.070 we have today. And it describes them negatively in describing, 0:04:34.390 --> 0:04:37.349 these are the bad things the King has done. And 0:04:37.390 --> 0:04:41.830 what do they amount to is he's interfered with representation. 0:04:42.230 --> 0:04:47.270 That's the constitutional way of saying government by consent. They 0:04:47.270 --> 0:04:51.310 can't do anything to you unless you elect them to 0:04:51.350 --> 0:04:55.520 do it. Uh, and they've interfered with separation of powers. 0:04:55.960 --> 0:05:00.560 The uniqueness of the American Constitution is that it manages rights. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.159 Madison to draw all its authority from the great body 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.599 of the people, but it does it in different ways, 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:11.920 at different times, so that the three branches of government 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:15.160 can be divided. And that way they all have an 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:18.520 equal standing. The president is elected one way and the 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:22.039 Congress in two different bodies, a second and a third way. 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.280 And then the courts are appointed by them and they 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:30.080 have tenure in office during good behavior. And so that's 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.320 those the offenses of the king. There are some particular 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:39.080 things he's done, like quartering troops and, and, uh, you know, 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:43.120 failing to defend the country. But the core offenses are 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:48.440 all against those principles of government representation, separation of powers, 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.930 which includes the independent judiciary. And so what they're thinking. 0:05:53.170 --> 0:05:57.570 Because remember, they are the first people to work out 0:05:57.570 --> 0:06:02.810 these principles and put them into action. Never happened before. See? 0:06:03.290 --> 0:06:06.570 And by the time of the Declaration of Independence, their 0:06:06.570 --> 0:06:10.650 thinking is far advanced. They're already looking ahead to the Constitution, 0:06:10.650 --> 0:06:14.169 which has passed 11 years later. And so it is 0:06:14.170 --> 0:06:19.250 a marvelous encapsulation of the purpose and the manner of 0:06:19.250 --> 0:06:20.930 the government of the United States. 0:06:21.529 --> 0:06:24.010 What I try and teach, what I try and teach 0:06:24.010 --> 0:06:27.289 my law students when I do the declaration and most 0:06:27.290 --> 0:06:30.970 common law classes begin in 1803 with Marbury versus Madison. 0:06:31.210 --> 0:06:35.210 Mine begins in 1770 because you've got to understand the declaration, 0:06:35.210 --> 0:06:38.050 understand the Constitution. You've got to understand the Constitution to 0:06:38.089 --> 0:06:40.530 get to Marbury versus Madison and the extension of the 0:06:40.529 --> 0:06:45.770 court's authority. But in that section wherein our detailed George 0:06:45.810 --> 0:06:49.890 the Third crime, there is a particular line that sings 0:06:49.890 --> 0:06:53.020 to me. He has sent out great armies of officials 0:06:53.020 --> 0:06:55.140 to eat up our wealth and our freedom. And I'm 0:06:55.140 --> 0:06:58.580 paraphrasing from memory, but it's the idea of bureaucrats. He 0:06:58.620 --> 0:07:02.219 sent bureaucrats everywhere. This has been forgotten. You didn't mention it. 0:07:02.220 --> 0:07:04.860 I just want to make a note that the declaration 0:07:05.060 --> 0:07:08.060 specifically inveighed against bureaucracy. 0:07:08.380 --> 0:07:11.820 He has sent among us swarms of officials swarms to 0:07:11.860 --> 0:07:15.380 harass our people and eat up their substance. 0:07:16.660 --> 0:07:20.500 And if that is not true today about the administrative 0:07:20.500 --> 0:07:22.460 state of California. 0:07:22.780 --> 0:07:27.540 Oh, yeah. No. That's right. And that's, you know, that's, um, 0:07:28.180 --> 0:07:31.540 a technique of rule, right. Uh, if you ever, if 0:07:31.540 --> 0:07:35.900 people ever watch the great movie, uh, The Lives of Others, 0:07:35.900 --> 0:07:40.580 one of the best movies ever made is Bill Buckley's 0:07:40.580 --> 0:07:42.300 favorite movie at the end of his life. 0:07:42.340 --> 0:07:43.260 Oh, I didn't know that. 0:07:43.300 --> 0:07:47.420 It's about. It's about a Stasi official in East Germany. 0:07:47.700 --> 0:07:50.550 And at the end, after it's over, It has a 0:07:50.550 --> 0:07:54.590 nice ending. It's. It's not a gloomy movie. Um, uh, 0:07:55.790 --> 0:08:00.190 words come up on the screen to say that in 0:08:00.190 --> 0:08:06.070 East Germany and before. Before communism fell, one citizen in 0:08:06.110 --> 0:08:10.630 six was a member of the secret police. The. And 0:08:10.630 --> 0:08:12.670 that meant every time you went out to dinner, you 0:08:12.670 --> 0:08:15.430 were surrounded by him. If you had guests over for 0:08:15.430 --> 0:08:18.190 dinner in your home, you couldn't be sure unless you 0:08:18.190 --> 0:08:20.990 knew them extremely well, whether they were or not. And 0:08:20.990 --> 0:08:22.350 maybe not even then. 0:08:22.350 --> 0:08:23.230 Not even then. 0:08:23.270 --> 0:08:27.830 And so the point is, they're the five are working 0:08:27.870 --> 0:08:31.670 to pay so that the one can spy on them 0:08:31.670 --> 0:08:35.190 and arrest them. And, uh, the movie, I will tell 0:08:35.190 --> 0:08:39.069 you opens and see this. And remember when somebody says 0:08:39.429 --> 0:08:43.390 that without representing you or being elected, we can govern 0:08:43.390 --> 0:08:48.030 you in all cases whatsoever. And that was a shameful 0:08:48.030 --> 0:08:50.400 moment in the British House of Commons when they passed 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:54.959 that law regarding regarding America. Right. Once you do that, 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:57.040 then the next thing you know, they can do whatever 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.400 they want, right? And they all have some reason for 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.600 it that they think is, you know, they will say 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:06.440 is good for everybody. And, but that's where you're going. That's, 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:10.600 that's what can happen. See, you said a week ago, 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:14.080 when we were talking about current affairs, that the public 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:17.559 employee unions are very influential in California. 0:09:17.600 --> 0:09:18.160 Correct. 0:09:18.200 --> 0:09:21.959 Well, they have an interest, don't they? And they deploy 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:27.200 enormous resources in politics to get their way and influence elections. 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:30.479 And and, you know, they if you just count everything 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:35.760 up together, they've got something like that. The the modern 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.880 administrative state has half the resources of the country at 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:40.800 its disposal. 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.960 And I would argue in, in California, it probably has more. 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:51.040 And in a somewhat sinister fashion. It has the youth, 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.800 because of the vastness of the California education system and 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:56.920 the fact that it operates out of Sacramento and it 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.640 operates poorly out of Sacramento, and the teachers unions come 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:03.000 ahead of the kids. And therefore, it's a very difficult 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:06.520 cycle to break when you get there. But there's hope. 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.320 Welcome back America. I'm Hugh Hewitt joined by Doctor Larry Arnn, 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:16.160 Hillsdale Dialogue special edition commemorating our 250th birthday. Doctor I 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:20.040 when I was last at Monticello, I had arranged to 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.480 go early and be met by the director, and because 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.880 I was running the Nixon Museum at the time, there 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:28.959 was a fraternity there. And so I got to see 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.160 the upstairs room. I got to see the restoration that 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.800 David Rubenstein had paid for. It was a fabulous thing. 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:39.160 And I learned then that they assert that the declaration 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:42.720 is the model for the so-called Declaration of Independence of 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.200 more than 80 other countries around the nation, around the 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.090 world and the United Nations backed that up. If you 0:10:48.090 --> 0:10:51.530 look it up in the. In any AI engine that 0:10:51.530 --> 0:10:53.490 more than 80. More than half of the countries in 0:10:53.490 --> 0:10:57.010 the world look to our declaration as their model for 0:10:57.010 --> 0:11:00.450 their declaration. Though their governance is not always constitutional governance. 0:11:00.730 --> 0:11:04.450 What was Jefferson working from? Or. If you want to 0:11:04.450 --> 0:11:08.930 be a more expansive. In your credit, everyone at the convention, 0:11:08.929 --> 0:11:12.689 but especially Adams and Franklin, what were they working from? 0:11:12.690 --> 0:11:15.370 What was the legacy that they were using to craft 0:11:15.370 --> 0:11:16.329 their argument? 0:11:16.850 --> 0:11:20.090 Well, there are two answers to that question. One is 0:11:20.530 --> 0:11:26.850 Jefferson was an extremely well-read man. I've been to Montesquieu's Chateau, 0:11:27.809 --> 0:11:31.610 and the claim that they make there is that Montesquieu 0:11:31.970 --> 0:11:37.650 owned and had read every book. You can't do that anymore. But, uh, 0:11:37.850 --> 0:11:41.689 too many books now. But, uh, he had read everything 0:11:42.210 --> 0:11:46.300 they say. Well, Jefferson could make that claim. So he 0:11:47.300 --> 0:11:51.420 is in Paris. And, uh, during the time of the 0:11:51.420 --> 0:11:55.420 writing of the Constitution, and his friend James Madison wrote 0:11:55.420 --> 0:11:58.540 and said, uh, send me some books to get ready 0:11:58.540 --> 0:12:01.740 for the Constitutional Convention. And the number that he spent 0:12:01.740 --> 0:12:07.660 sent was over 175. And Madison apparently read them. Uh, so, 0:12:08.020 --> 0:12:10.340 you know, they were very well read men. If you 0:12:10.340 --> 0:12:13.820 read the Federalist Papers, you will see that they have 0:12:13.860 --> 0:12:18.180 reflected on the classics and the medievals and their figures 0:12:18.179 --> 0:12:23.020 in the Renaissance. So, uh, that's one answer. The second 0:12:23.020 --> 0:12:26.460 answer is Jefferson writes a letter about how he went 0:12:26.460 --> 0:12:30.140 about it, and he said he consulted no book or pamphlet. 0:12:30.460 --> 0:12:36.300 He said I was expressing the harmonizing sentiments of the day. Now, 0:12:36.580 --> 0:12:39.980 where were they to be found? They were to be found. 0:12:39.980 --> 0:12:43.870 First of all, there were two books that most any 0:12:43.910 --> 0:12:46.990 household had in it. If they had any books in the. 0:12:47.270 --> 0:12:50.670 From the American Revolution, at least through the Lincoln-Douglas debates. 0:12:51.150 --> 0:12:53.950 One was the King James Bible, and one was the 0:12:53.990 --> 0:12:57.990 works of William Shakespeare. Yep. And so, you know, and 0:12:57.990 --> 0:13:00.470 there are a lot of books around, right. The Montesquieu, 0:13:00.510 --> 0:13:03.709 Montesquieu was particularly heavily read. He was the great separation 0:13:03.710 --> 0:13:08.510 of powers philosopher. And they argue about him in particular 0:13:08.510 --> 0:13:11.429 in the Federalist Papers, because the Anti-Federalists are saying that 0:13:11.429 --> 0:13:16.989 he favors small republics. And the Federalists say, uh, okay, 0:13:17.030 --> 0:13:22.110 that proves too much, because the smallest state is bigger 0:13:22.429 --> 0:13:27.750 than the largest republic that Montesquieu indicated would be good 0:13:28.429 --> 0:13:32.870 big old country, you know, going to get bigger. They hoped. So, uh, 0:13:33.429 --> 0:13:36.750 they were very well read people, but then they had 0:13:36.750 --> 0:13:42.800 these town halls, right? I mean, self-government and by the 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:48.160 time by 1763, so the American Revolution. America starts in 1609. 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.360 Is that the right date? 16071 of those two in Jamestown. 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:58.600 The English immigration begins then. And from then until 1763, 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.240 we were pretty much left to our own devices. Our 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.200 film tells about that salutary revolutionary America. 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.880 The name of the film is Revolutionary America. It may 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.480 be in theaters still, and it will be on some 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:13.280 streaming platforms. Go ahead. 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:19.160 And what did we do? We built this very elaborate 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:24.040 system of representative government, starting from the bottom up, as 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:28.000 the Constitution indicates. Government should work, although it's now centralized 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.240 in ways that I think are not good. I mean, hugely. 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:35.280 And so town halls get together and argue. And, you know, 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.320 if you go into Faneuil Hall in Boston, a historic 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:42.960 place where the first arguments that led to the Declaration 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:48.400 of Independence were mostly intensely waged, most intensely waged. Uh, 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:52.280 it's a two story thing, you know. There's a balcony, right? 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.440 And so on the floor level and up on the balcony, 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.520 there are people standing up and talking and everybody could hear. 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.360 And the place was packed. And they're arguing about, you know, 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:07.280 everything from picking up the rubbish to the water supply 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:12.880 to the Tea Party and the American Revolution. And so 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:14.880 we were used to that, and we had more of 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:21.040 that than anywhere in the world. And, uh, that's, you know, that's, um, 0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.600 so when Jefferson sat down to write this, he was 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:27.600 talking to a populace that was thinking about stuff like this, 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.800 understood that they had rights that had no experience of 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:35.840 any kind of government except by people they had elected and. 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.770 And a population that was a frontier population. I know 0:15:40.770 --> 0:15:44.890 that there are developed cities like Philadelphia and Boston and 0:15:45.130 --> 0:15:48.810 to a lesser extent Williamsburg, but it's still a frontier. 0:15:48.850 --> 0:15:52.010 It's still a dangerous country. It's an adventure to live 0:15:52.010 --> 0:15:55.810 in America until well into the 19th century. I think 0:15:55.810 --> 0:15:59.890 that animate Jefferson somewhat. Uh, to be a Virginian is 0:15:59.890 --> 0:16:02.450 to is to live a long distance from your neighbor. 0:16:02.490 --> 0:16:04.690 You have to run your own farm. Your own. 0:16:04.730 --> 0:16:07.690 Yeah, yeah. And see, like, one of the, one of 0:16:07.690 --> 0:16:12.050 the reasons Jefferson became so prominent was because the revolution 0:16:12.050 --> 0:16:15.130 really became intense in Boston and to a lesser extent 0:16:15.130 --> 0:16:19.130 in New York City, big port cities, right? Well, the 0:16:19.130 --> 0:16:23.130 other big state is Virginia, and that's plantations and farms, right. 0:16:23.170 --> 0:16:27.850 Lots of commerce with Great Britain, which consumed its agricultural 0:16:27.850 --> 0:16:32.050 products and sent back manufactured products. Right. So they. So 0:16:32.610 --> 0:16:36.090 how are you going to unite the country? And John Adams, 0:16:36.090 --> 0:16:39.180 who's one of the shrewdest Americans who ever lived. He 0:16:39.180 --> 0:16:43.820 figured out we got to promote Washington and Jefferson and 0:16:43.820 --> 0:16:47.100 Washington because he never commanded a big bunch of troops. 0:16:47.100 --> 0:16:49.380 But gosh, didn't he look like he could? And turned 0:16:49.380 --> 0:16:53.540 out he finally could. But but and he's from Virginia. 0:16:53.940 --> 0:16:57.820 And then Jefferson could write like a dream. You know, 0:16:57.860 --> 0:17:01.140 the Declaration of Independence is very beautiful. After the declaration, 0:17:01.180 --> 0:17:03.860 my favorite thing he ever wrote is the last paragraph 0:17:03.860 --> 0:17:07.460 of something he wrote in 1774 called the Summary View 0:17:07.460 --> 0:17:10.140 of the Rights of British North America. And the first 0:17:10.140 --> 0:17:14.420 two sentences are just beautiful, he says, because, you know, 0:17:14.500 --> 0:17:18.460 they're addressing everybody addresses the king with great respect, especially 0:17:18.460 --> 0:17:22.580 early when the when the British start doing things. It 0:17:22.580 --> 0:17:26.700 gives rise to a pamphlet war and letters to the 0:17:26.700 --> 0:17:30.179 addresses to the throne and the Parliament pleading and making 0:17:30.180 --> 0:17:33.860 their case and arguing with each other, too. And when 0:17:33.859 --> 0:17:37.150 Jefferson takes up his pen it gets harder. And the 0:17:38.150 --> 0:17:44.190 last paragraph begins. Let those flatter who fear. Sire, it 0:17:44.190 --> 0:17:48.630 is not an American art. So. 0:17:50.790 --> 0:17:52.710 All right. We'll come back. We'll come back and talk 0:17:52.750 --> 0:17:55.950 about George. Uh, don't go anywhere, America, because there is 0:17:55.990 --> 0:17:59.270 a an antagonist in all this. He's he's the last 0:17:59.270 --> 0:18:01.790 king of America, to quote the title of the book 0:18:01.790 --> 0:18:05.950 by a mutual friend of doctor and mine, Lord Andrew Roberts, 0:18:06.190 --> 0:18:10.150 who's a skilled a craftsman as at work today. And 0:18:10.150 --> 0:18:13.510 his most recent big book about old things is called 0:18:13.510 --> 0:18:16.389 The Last King of America. We'll talk about what George 0:18:16.430 --> 0:18:21.190 missed under his nose. You know, miles away across the Atlantic. 0:18:21.310 --> 0:18:25.630 Stay tuned. Welcome back, America. It's a special Hillsdale dialogue 0:18:25.630 --> 0:18:30.470 celebrating our 250th birthday. More importantly, the ideas that animated it. Doctor, 0:18:30.630 --> 0:18:32.270 as I went into the break, I mentioned that our 0:18:32.270 --> 0:18:34.920 mutual friend, Lord Andrew Roberts, wrote The Last King of 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:37.119 America about George the Third. I thought it was a 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.800 fabulous book, much more complicated man, than is presented in 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.560 the Broadway musical Hamilton, though the arrogance is there. What 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.720 do you think he missed about America that made him 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.199 obtuse or indifferent to what was happening here? 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:58.600 Well, he he thought that he was born to rule, 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:03.160 and that imposed a duty on him as much as 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.840 it imposed on his subjects. Remember, they weren't called citizens. 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:11.440 They were called subjects. This birthright citizenship controversy where you 0:19:11.440 --> 0:19:16.159 are wrong, you. You are wrong as George as George 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:22.280 the Third was wrong because they mistake citizens for subjects. Uh, 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:25.320 if you're born in a place where people are subjects, 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:28.240 then the king can lay claim to you. But if 0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:31.760 you're a citizen, you got to join up. And, uh, 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:35.770 so that's the difference. That's the distinction. But yeah, he 0:19:35.770 --> 0:19:39.090 was just wrong about that. And remember his whole life, right? 0:19:39.130 --> 0:19:42.609 He's a German. Uh, the British monarchy is the most 0:19:42.609 --> 0:19:47.810 stable of all the European monarchies, which means unstable, often, 0:19:48.170 --> 0:19:53.330 but more stable. And so they have a peaceful transition 0:19:53.490 --> 0:19:57.770 from the heirs of Henry the Eighth. I'm getting that right. Yes. 0:19:57.810 --> 0:20:00.130 To the Germans. 0:20:00.450 --> 0:20:01.330 And then to the Germans. 0:20:01.369 --> 0:20:08.450 Yeah. And, uh. And he's a German aristocrat, and he 0:20:08.490 --> 0:20:12.450 succeeds by birth. And his son will succeed after him 0:20:12.450 --> 0:20:18.050 and did. And, uh, and so that's the difference, right? 0:20:18.330 --> 0:20:23.689 Thomas Jefferson says, no, nobody is born to rule another. 0:20:23.690 --> 0:20:26.650 Just think of the beauty of Abraham Lincoln's. You know, 0:20:26.690 --> 0:20:32.100 his aphorisms, right? They're they're Euclidean poems. They're like geometry. 0:20:32.100 --> 0:20:35.100 And they're like poetry, both as I would not be 0:20:35.100 --> 0:20:38.060 a slave, so I would not be a master. To me, 0:20:38.060 --> 0:20:41.060 that is the meaning of democracy. And without that there 0:20:41.060 --> 0:20:43.540 is no democracy. The. 0:20:44.180 --> 0:20:48.180 That is beautiful. But what happened to Burke, who was 0:20:48.619 --> 0:20:52.580 inveighing against Lord North and everybody else who's running. Because 0:20:52.580 --> 0:20:53.659 there is a Parliament. 0:20:53.660 --> 0:20:56.380 Andrew. Our friend Andrew is a member of the House 0:20:56.380 --> 0:20:58.619 of Lords, and if he had been a member of 0:20:58.619 --> 0:21:02.540 the House of Lords in in 1776, he would probably 0:21:02.540 --> 0:21:05.340 be Edmund Burke, who was a friend of the American 0:21:05.340 --> 0:21:08.940 Revolution and a friend of the monarchy, as was the 0:21:08.940 --> 0:21:12.380 greatest statesman of the age, who just turned out not 0:21:12.380 --> 0:21:15.660 to be in the cabinet that George II picked. But 0:21:15.660 --> 0:21:20.899 both Pitt father and son. The pits were both understood. 0:21:21.020 --> 0:21:24.020 The claims of the American Revolution and thought that they 0:21:24.020 --> 0:21:29.060 should be accommodated. Right. And, uh, you know, Winston Churchill 0:21:29.060 --> 0:21:34.420 succeeds Now, Winston Churchill, of course, knew well and served 0:21:34.420 --> 0:21:39.100 with George V and George the Sixth, named after George 0:21:39.140 --> 0:21:42.659 the Third and George the first and second. And so 0:21:43.020 --> 0:21:48.580 he was he. And Churchill says on the 4th of July, 1918, 0:21:48.580 --> 0:21:51.420 in a speech in London, when we're allies in this 0:21:51.420 --> 0:21:55.620 First World War, the Declaration of Independence, he says, is 0:21:55.619 --> 0:21:58.820 not only an American document. It grew up on the 0:21:58.820 --> 0:22:02.580 banks of the Thames, the river that runs through London, 0:22:02.820 --> 0:22:05.859 and to Oxford. He would repeat this, by the way, 0:22:05.859 --> 0:22:09.140 in his great Iron Curtain speech in 1946 with Harry 0:22:09.140 --> 0:22:11.540 Truman there that announced the beginning of the Cold War. 0:22:12.420 --> 0:22:17.659 And he says, uh, uh, by it, the Declaration of Independence, 0:22:17.660 --> 0:22:22.740 Churchill says, we lost an empire. But by learning its lessons, 0:22:22.740 --> 0:22:26.740 we have now preserved an empire. And that means that 0:22:26.740 --> 0:22:32.149 Britain was not claiming anymore after the American Revolution that 0:22:32.150 --> 0:22:35.830 because the king was born to rule, the subjects have 0:22:35.830 --> 0:22:39.030 to do what he says. And they had stopped saying 0:22:39.030 --> 0:22:43.950 that extensively, at least inside Britain. But they thought they 0:22:43.950 --> 0:22:47.229 could say that to the colonists, you know. What was it, 0:22:47.270 --> 0:22:50.750 Grenville or Townshend, one of those two idiots who were 0:22:50.750 --> 0:22:54.550 key advisors to the king and Lord North was the third. Um, 0:22:55.270 --> 0:22:59.430 he says to Ben Franklin, you are the children and 0:22:59.430 --> 0:23:03.270 we are the mother country, and you must do what 0:23:03.270 --> 0:23:06.990 we say. And Ben Franklin, who, you know, could get 0:23:06.990 --> 0:23:10.070 along with nearly anybody, wrote back to the Parliament and 0:23:10.070 --> 0:23:13.310 said he was wrote back to the Continental Congress. He 0:23:13.310 --> 0:23:17.310 was representing us then in London as the run up 0:23:17.310 --> 0:23:20.710 to the Revolutionary War. He writes back and says, well, 0:23:20.710 --> 0:23:23.030 there's going to be a war. We're never going to 0:23:23.030 --> 0:23:23.750 agree about it. 0:23:24.310 --> 0:23:25.390 That's the fundamental. 0:23:25.430 --> 0:23:30.080 That's that's the point. If. If no 1st May be 0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:35.879 rightly governed except by his consent, then that's dispositive. 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.480 And that made the revolution inevitable. When we come back, 0:23:38.480 --> 0:23:41.200 we talk about the man who made it possible. Washington. 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:43.960 Stay tuned. America. I'm Hugh Hewitt with Doctor Larry Arnn 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:48.760 on a special Hillsdale dialogue about our 250th birthday. Welcome 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.720 back America. I'm Hugh Hewitt with Doctor Larry Arnn. A 0:23:51.720 --> 0:23:55.520 special edition of Hillsdale Dialogue devoted to our 250th birthday. 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:59.480 Doctor Arnn, I want to remind everyone Revolutionary America is 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:03.520 the movie that Hillsdale made that begins in 1763 and 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:06.440 goes all the way through the framing of the Constitution. 0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:09.000 You can find it on streaming platforms. You can find 0:24:09.000 --> 0:24:12.560 it in theaters, perhaps even on this weekend. It is magnificent. 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:14.280 You ought to do it. It ought to be seen 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:18.359 by every student in America and their parents and teachers. Um, 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:22.560 George Washington was not present when the declaration was voted 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:25.200 on July 4th or signed on August 2nd. I don't 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:26.690 know if you know this doctor. on. There's a big 0:24:26.690 --> 0:24:32.810 celebration of signing day in put in Bay in Ohio, 0:24:33.250 --> 0:24:36.210 because the war with the Brits really end up being 0:24:36.250 --> 0:24:39.010 finished off at the Battle of Lake Erie in 1813. 0:24:39.250 --> 0:24:42.090 And it's a 40 years war. But Washington was not 0:24:42.090 --> 0:24:45.090 there for the Declaration of Independence. He was in the field, 0:24:45.250 --> 0:24:47.649 but had there been no Washington, there would have been 0:24:47.650 --> 0:24:53.090 no 10th anniversary, no 50th, 100th, 150th, no bicentennial, no. 0:24:53.090 --> 0:24:56.450 Two 50th. Why was Washington the indispensable man? 0:24:57.450 --> 0:25:01.530 Well, it's because he performed right. He was picked because 0:25:01.530 --> 0:25:04.570 he looked like he might, you know. And who else did? 0:25:04.609 --> 0:25:06.330 He was a very good looking man. You know, big 0:25:06.330 --> 0:25:09.850 tall man wore his uniform to the Continental Congress on 0:25:09.850 --> 0:25:13.050 the day he was picked. But then what did he 0:25:13.050 --> 0:25:15.649 prove in the war? First of all, he was personally 0:25:15.650 --> 0:25:22.570 extremely brave. He left brave people open mouthed things he 0:25:22.570 --> 0:25:27.460 did on the battlefield, sometimes with his amazing calmness under 0:25:27.460 --> 0:25:33.179 direct fire, sometimes with his energy and loud voice. And 0:25:33.859 --> 0:25:36.379 he whipped the troops to turn around. Fight at the 0:25:36.380 --> 0:25:40.100 Battle of Monmouth, at the Battle of Princeton. He led them, 0:25:40.100 --> 0:25:44.139 not knowing, according to his adjutant, whether anybody was following 0:25:44.140 --> 0:25:47.780 him or not, right into the British. And they. It 0:25:47.780 --> 0:25:51.379 was amazing, right? So he had courage. The second thing 0:25:51.380 --> 0:25:57.459 was he had moderation. Uh, George Washington, we could not 0:25:57.460 --> 0:26:00.660 stand toe to toe with the British for most of 0:26:00.660 --> 0:26:06.659 the Revolutionary War. We were not drilled. Uh, uh, and 0:26:06.660 --> 0:26:10.740 so what he did was figure out a strategy, you know, 0:26:10.780 --> 0:26:14.620 step by step, because he learned while he went of 0:26:14.619 --> 0:26:17.740 using the fact of the land and that we were 0:26:17.740 --> 0:26:23.900 at home and they were not to consume time. and 0:26:23.900 --> 0:26:29.780 the British Army. Another quality he had was, uh. He. 0:26:29.900 --> 0:26:35.260 Because he was so self-restrained. What I think is Washington, 0:26:35.260 --> 0:26:37.900 if you put all the stories you know together about Washington, 0:26:38.500 --> 0:26:43.340 he he was a very explosive individual, and he kept 0:26:43.340 --> 0:26:47.260 it under control. And people would see flashes of it 0:26:47.260 --> 0:26:50.419 and think there's a volcano in there. But it only 0:26:50.420 --> 0:26:53.420 got out when he wanted it to. And they trusted 0:26:53.420 --> 0:26:56.820 him because of that. They watched him suffer alongside them. 0:26:57.859 --> 0:27:02.419 He had amazing endurance. Uh, at Valley Forge in our 0:27:02.420 --> 0:27:07.460 Revolutionary America film. That's very well told. It's comparable what 0:27:07.460 --> 0:27:11.180 the troops did at Valley Forge because they they didn't 0:27:11.180 --> 0:27:13.380 have any. Some of them were just living with a 0:27:13.380 --> 0:27:16.420 spare blanket around them. And it was a hard winter 0:27:16.940 --> 0:27:20.500 and they were freezing. And they didn't have food. They 0:27:20.500 --> 0:27:25.149 were starving. right. And George Washington and Martha Washington came 0:27:25.150 --> 0:27:30.430 to the camp and brought food, passed it out. And and, uh, 0:27:30.990 --> 0:27:34.510 Washington is constantly he was a man of immense dignity, 0:27:35.030 --> 0:27:39.230 but also he was constantly pleading with the Congress on 0:27:39.230 --> 0:27:42.510 behalf of the troops. And we weren't very well organized. 0:27:42.510 --> 0:27:45.470 We didn't feed them properly or support them properly until 0:27:45.470 --> 0:27:51.389 long after the war. Uh, and so he had that right. 0:27:51.710 --> 0:27:56.350 And then finally at the end, he was bold. He 0:27:56.350 --> 0:27:58.909 was bold from time to time, but especially in the 0:27:58.910 --> 0:28:02.869 battle of Yorktown because, uh, the only time in the 0:28:02.869 --> 0:28:07.790 war he did this, uh, he got the French Navy 0:28:08.590 --> 0:28:14.110 off the coast of Virginia. Yorktown, where in Virginia. And 0:28:14.109 --> 0:28:16.550 he could never rely on them. They were allies, but 0:28:16.550 --> 0:28:19.109 they'd run off down to the West Indies and tech 0:28:19.109 --> 0:28:21.520 stuff down there. The. That the French had down there, 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.040 and he never knew for sure whether they're going to 0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.399 show up or not. And he had a French army 0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:29.360 that would come and go. And so he got Cornwallis 0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:33.480 bottled up at Yorktown, and the French Navy won a battle. 0:28:33.480 --> 0:28:37.440 And the British Navy couldn't relieve them. And then he had. 0:28:37.480 --> 0:28:41.160 And he put every resource at his disposal. He put 0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:47.240 every man. He put all his diplomatic arts. And he besieged, uh, 0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:52.280 Cornwallis at Yorktown and starved him out and, uh, repelled 0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:55.880 many attempts to break out. And that's the one place 0:28:56.280 --> 0:29:00.600 where he risked everything. And that's the final, important battle. 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:02.640 Because that's where he won the Revolutionary War. 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:06.840 I don't know if it's apocryphal. Is it apocryphal that 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:09.239 when George II heard, he laid down his command and 0:29:09.240 --> 0:29:11.920 went back to his farm, that he declared then that 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:14.600 he is the greatest man in the world? Is that apocryphal, 0:29:14.600 --> 0:29:15.360 or is that true? 0:29:16.440 --> 0:29:21.010 Well, it's, uh, so that's a it's the question. The 0:29:21.210 --> 0:29:25.410 answer to that is slightly tangled, because it's a very 0:29:25.410 --> 0:29:31.290 old story from the time. And so, uh, and it's 0:29:31.330 --> 0:29:35.810 a very persistent story, but you can't quite find the source. 0:29:35.810 --> 0:29:38.730 And that's because he's George the third is said to 0:29:38.770 --> 0:29:42.370 have said to the Prime Minister who said to him, sire, 0:29:43.130 --> 0:29:46.050 you have to call a peace conference. And it took 0:29:46.050 --> 0:29:48.530 forever to get that call and then forever to get 0:29:48.530 --> 0:29:52.490 the peace concluded. Uh, such as it was, as you say, 0:29:52.490 --> 0:29:57.290 it went on till 1813. Uh, and, uh, George the 0:29:57.290 --> 0:30:01.730 Third is reported to have said, uh, George Washington will 0:30:01.730 --> 0:30:05.130 not know how to be a king. He will be 0:30:05.530 --> 0:30:09.410 a tyrant, and they will want me back. So in 0:30:09.410 --> 0:30:14.610 other words, he's making the deduction from history that conquerors 0:30:14.610 --> 0:30:20.420 become kings. Yep. Right. And and, uh, the Prime Minister replies, 0:30:20.420 --> 0:30:24.140 I understand that General Washington has retired from the Army 0:30:24.380 --> 0:30:27.780 and gone home to his farm. George the Third is 0:30:27.780 --> 0:30:31.140 reported to have said, uh, if he did that, he's 0:30:31.140 --> 0:30:34.020 the greatest man in the world. And he was he 0:30:34.020 --> 0:30:35.420 was the greatest man in the world. 0:30:35.620 --> 0:30:37.860 We'll pause there. We'll be back for one more segment 0:30:37.860 --> 0:30:41.340 with Doctor Arnn on this special. Enjoy this weekend. Coming 0:30:41.340 --> 0:30:45.860 up this this 250th anniversary. They are anniversaries of this 0:30:45.860 --> 0:30:48.180 significance are few and far between. I hope you have 0:30:48.180 --> 0:30:51.820 something more planned than hot dogs and fireworks. If you 0:30:51.820 --> 0:30:55.100 can get out and see revolutionary America. I hope it's 0:30:55.100 --> 0:30:56.780 still in the theaters, but you'll find it on a 0:30:56.780 --> 0:31:00.060 streaming platform somewhere. I'll come back with the question for 0:31:00.060 --> 0:31:03.700 Doctor Arnn. Will there be a 500th? I don't even 0:31:03.700 --> 0:31:07.780 know what we call that Quincentennial. We'll find out. Stay tuned. 0:31:08.260 --> 0:31:13.580 Welcome back America. I'm Hugh Hewitt all things hillsdale@hillsdale.edu. Don't 0:31:13.580 --> 0:31:18.430 forget Revolutionary America, their movie about from 1763 until the 0:31:19.350 --> 0:31:22.950 ratification of the Constitution. Therein is the story of our 0:31:22.950 --> 0:31:27.310 250th anniversary of our birthday. Doctor Arnn, we, you and 0:31:27.310 --> 0:31:30.270 I have lived through the bicentennial, and now the 250th 0:31:30.430 --> 0:31:32.790 will be long gone to our reward. Meet our maker 0:31:32.790 --> 0:31:35.670 before the 500th. If there is one, do you think 0:31:35.670 --> 0:31:37.310 there will be a quincentennial? 0:31:38.950 --> 0:31:43.910 Uh. The future, though imminent, is obscure. And so, you know, 0:31:43.950 --> 0:31:47.870 you can't know the future. You can know a little 0:31:47.910 --> 0:31:50.750 bit about the present. You can know a lot about 0:31:50.750 --> 0:31:56.350 the past. And from those you can deduce eternity. Uh, 0:31:56.350 --> 0:31:59.070 so long as there is in nature, the laws of 0:31:59.070 --> 0:32:02.990 nature and of nature's God will prevail. And that means 0:32:02.990 --> 0:32:05.830 as long as there are humans, the Declaration of Independence 0:32:05.830 --> 0:32:08.990 cannot pass away. Might be we'll lose our country. Might 0:32:09.030 --> 0:32:12.630 be a million things might happen. But that cannot change. 0:32:13.110 --> 0:32:17.360 And That's, uh, you know, in a, in his greatest 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:21.600 speech on the 150th anniversary of the declaration. Calvin Coolidge 0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:25.160 and the penultimate paragraph talks about change, how much change 0:32:25.160 --> 0:32:28.080 there is and how much advance there is in America. 0:32:28.560 --> 0:32:33.480 You know, in 1926, he says, uh, if all men 0:32:33.480 --> 0:32:37.560 are created equal, that is final. Final. If they are 0:32:37.560 --> 0:32:41.600 endowed by their creator with inalienable rights, that is final. 0:32:41.920 --> 0:32:46.000 From those principles, there is no advance possible. There is 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:47.320 only going backwards. 0:32:48.880 --> 0:32:49.640 But we could. 0:32:49.680 --> 0:32:57.120 Is there another place on the planet poised to succeed 0:32:57.120 --> 0:33:00.440 with that principle set as we have succeeded with that 0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:04.280 principle set? I mean, we overcame enslavement, we won the 0:33:04.280 --> 0:33:06.760 Civil War. We won two great world wars. We won 0:33:06.760 --> 0:33:08.960 the Cold War. We're in the Cold War two. Is 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:11.720 there another place on the planet that you think has 0:33:12.240 --> 0:33:15.800 the stuff of which the declaration was made here and 0:33:15.800 --> 0:33:16.920 made more perfect here. 0:33:18.400 --> 0:33:20.960 But one hopes for Africa, which is growing very much, 0:33:20.960 --> 0:33:25.480 and which is not so well organized as the West. 0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:36.720 But just remember that the principles are, you know, they're perfect. 0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:43.000 The principles. We're not in potential anywhere, right? I mean, 0:33:43.040 --> 0:33:47.040 right now, if you look at the world, it's a problem, right? Uh, uh, 0:33:47.160 --> 0:33:51.720 China is the most well, India. India is a bright spot, 0:33:51.760 --> 0:33:56.400 I hope. Yes, I pray for it has a representative form. 0:33:56.880 --> 0:33:59.640 You know, it's a massive big old mess of of 0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:02.920 a country, the most populous country now and also young. 0:34:02.920 --> 0:34:06.800 It's going to keep growing. Uh, but it has representative 0:34:06.800 --> 0:34:13.330 institutions and that's good. And, uh, so in privacy. But 0:34:13.370 --> 0:34:19.090 you should remember, since we saluting America. America is right 0:34:19.090 --> 0:34:24.370 now impossible absent an apocalypse because there isn't a new 0:34:24.370 --> 0:34:26.010 world unsettled. 0:34:26.890 --> 0:34:27.170 That's. 0:34:27.170 --> 0:34:30.650 It has been settled. We got here just in time. 0:34:31.010 --> 0:34:34.530 Doctor Larry Arnn, have a happy 250th celebration at Hillsdale. 0:34:34.570 --> 0:34:38.370 Thank you for this special on our 250th birthday, America. 0:34:38.410 --> 0:34:40.049 I'll talk to you on Monday on the next Hugh 0:34:40.050 --> 0:34:40.770 Hewitt show. 0:34:44.489 --> 0:34:47.690 Thanks for listening to the Hillsdale Dialogues, part of the 0:34:47.690 --> 0:34:56.370 Hillsdale College Podcast Network. More episodes@podcast.hillsdale.edu or wherever you find 0:34:56.370 --> 0:35:02.450 your audio. For more information about Hillsdale College, head to hillsdale.edu.