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S1: In this standalone episode, I'm talking to my great friend,

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S1: Andrew Ringlein. So Andrew and I have known each other

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S1: since junior high, and he is one of the absolute

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S1: smartest people I know. But somehow, he's managed to keep

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S1: a low profile until now. And I think this conversation

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S1: will be the first part of changing that. So Andrew

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S1: is working in the crypto space and we go on

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S1: regular walks around the local lake and we talk about

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S1: work in tech and life and whatever. And we just

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S1: had one of these walks last week where I asked

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S1: him a simple question What does he see as the

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S1: intersection of gaming and crypto? Andrew is a lifelong gamer

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S1: and he is active in the crypto space as well.

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S1: So the resulting hour long conversation was something I just

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S1: knew I had to record, and that is what this

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S1: conversation is. So with that, here's Andrew Ringland on crypto

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S1: gaming and business. So, Andrew, good to see you. We

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S1: had this amazing conversation walking around the lake the whole

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S1: time I was walking. My phone was in my pocket

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S1: and I was worried that if I tried to record it,

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S1: it would just sound like crap. But the whole time

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S1: we were talking, I was like, Damn, I really wish

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S1: I was recording this because I feel like we're going

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S1: to forget everything. And then we basically said, OK, we

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S1: just need to do this again on a podcast. So

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S1: we're going to do our best to reproduce that, and

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S1: it'll probably be a little kludgy, but we'll make an attempt.

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S2: So thanks for having me.

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S1: Yeah, absolutely. So I'll give a proper intro to you

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S1: before this, so we'll just jump right into the conversation.

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S1: And I think the question that I asked was basically,

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S1: how did you see crypto interacting with gaming? They understand

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S1: you have a leader in question as well. I guess

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S1: we can do both list of yours first.

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S2: Well, mine is very similar to yours. You had said

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S2: something like, how do you see this? But but you

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S2: also basically said, why? Right? Like, why? Like, why? Why

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S2: does it matter? And I don't have it. In my view,

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S2: the question which is three years ago, I work in

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S2: a company and we launched a rewards currency inside an app,

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S2: and a number of salespeople hit the up and said, Hey, listen.

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S2: Turn your reward currency to blockchain and cryptocurrency, and I

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S2: came to you and I talk to you about it.

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S2: And I said, Is there anything here? I'm missing? Is

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S2: there any reason this should be decentralized? And I got

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S2: on the phone with three different sales reps and had

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S2: them describe to me what they would do. They would

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S2: they would give us money. They would years. And I

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S2: kept asking the question of why, like, why should we

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S2: change our reworked currency to crypto? And I did not

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S2: get an answer that was anything other than it'll stick

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S2: the word blockchain next to your company and you'll be

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S2: caught right? There was nothing that some gave and I

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S2: talked to three sales reps who were trying to convince

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S2: me to use their blockchain. And I said, why? And

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S2: I got no answer. And I kind of feel like

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S2: the world is asking why. And at the wake, I

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S2: think you also kind of said to me, you said, why?

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S2: Like why? Why does it matter? And I didn't have

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S2: an answer for years ago. No one else had an

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S2: answer for years ago. And I think now now the

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S2: answers are starting to emerge that the wider story.

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S1: OK. And so what is the answer?

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S2: Well, so the answer is, is a longer one because

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S2: there's actually a bunch of lies. And I'd say that

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S2: the first one is kind of the simplest to talk about,

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S2: which is the the change to the financial model in

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S2: crypto and crypto gaming. If we look back at gaming

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S2: and we talk about the evolution from the very early

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S2: days of pay to play into free to play, that

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S2: was a really big revolution that people were very resistant to.

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S2: And people said why? And people said, that's terrible, right?

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S2: But then it got proven that it's actually a better model,

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S2: and one of the reasons that free to play is

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S2: a better model and pay to play is you're only

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S2: paying for what you want, right? As a consumer, I

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S2: can go and I can play 20 games, not pay

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S2: anything fine one game I like and I can spend

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S2: all my money on that one game that makes left

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S2: the cream right at the top. It means that the

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S2: game that is successful can make a lot more money

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S2: than the games that are not successful.

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S1: So basically, there's more experiments because there are more people

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S1: playing more games.

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S2: Well, it does allow for more experience because it also

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S2: allows free to play, makes it easier to try to

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S2: go market something, changes the marketing and changes the monetization.

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S2: Because now I can go get a user to try

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S2: and be a lot more easily convincing someone to spend

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S2: three dollars. It's hard convincing someone to look at a

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S2: button is easy. So it's very easy to innovate and

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S2: experiment and try to find something that can be good.

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S2: And then all the money is being spent on the

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S2: ones that are good. And so all of gaming, I mean,

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S2: not quite all of it, but the vast majority of

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S2: money in gaming has moved to free to play. Can

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S2: you go back 10 years? And it's a very toxic idea.

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S2: If people didn't like it, it's like, Oh, this is

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S2: just a cash grab. Right? But now you look at,

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S2: you know, the largest games are already looking at like

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S2: Fortnite and look at League of Legends, and they're free

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S2: to play

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S1: anywhere because everyone's saying that about crypto, that it's a

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S1: giant cash grab.

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S2: Right? It's the exact same thing. And so the evolution

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S2: from pay to play to free to play was an

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S2: evolution that that aligned the financial incentives better and play

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S2: to earn. And crypto gaming actually does that again. And

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S2: it does that probably a little bit more than free

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S2: to play it, and it's catching on much, much faster

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S2: than free to play there because the difference is greater, right?

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S2: Free to play. Let's just say free to play is

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S2: twice as good of a model. Well played earns probably

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S2: like four times as good of a model so that

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S2: the speed of adoption is even faster.

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S1: OK, so play to earn you think is the next

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S1: iteration past free to play?

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S2: Yeah, from a from a financial model standpoint, yeah,

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S1: I think so. Finance model. So financial model is one

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S1: axis and then you have other things like UGC, how

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S1: does that play into this?

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S2: Yeah. So so I think there's actually like five different

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S2: things that for crypto gaming are kind of multiplying its

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S2: speed of adoption and its importance. And if we just

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S2: go backwards for one second, just talk about like what's

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S2: happened recently. Just so people can understand implications. What's happened

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S2: recently is back in July, a single game went and

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S2: launched their play to earn component, and this game was

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S2: called exclusivity. And this game company is worth about $14

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S2: billion today and fourteen billion dollars devoid of caps. It's

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S2: not worth that, but that's sort of what's worst blizzard,

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S2: which is the preeminent preeminent IP, most significant third third

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S2: largest gaming company in the world and the single largest

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S2: acquisition ever in U.S. history, which it acquired because of blockchain.

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S2: Why did that happen? It happened because of Axiom. Infinity

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S2: came out of nowhere and is suddenly on everyone's radar.

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S2: And after Axie Infinity sort of showed a superior financial model,

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S2: five of our games came along and did the exact

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S2: same thing. And so when a when a Yahoo like

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S2: me can make a phone call and suddenly talk to

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S2: a CEO who has got a billion dollar company because

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S2: he did something three months earlier? It's bizarre, it's accelerated

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S2: the speed of these game companies growth. So every game

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S2: company is now thinking, OK, what do I do that

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S2: is this new model? It's much, much faster than the

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S2: free to play option. It's what drove the Microsoft user acquisition.

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S2: It's also what drove Facebook renaming itself. So the financial

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S2: implications of this in the gaming world are being seen

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S2: by these other companies. And they're all trying to rapidly

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S2: move as fast as they can to adopt it. And

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S2: that's just the sort of the proof behind that, that

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S2: first change.

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S1: So that first change, are we talking strictly about? Quickly

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S1: being able to raise money for a new idea.

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S2: That that is one of the implications, I think, inside

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S2: of that, that model change because basically a new game

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S2: has capacity to earn more money more quickly. It's the

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S2: same thing as like a free to play acceleration, right?

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S2: A free to play game for more users work quickly.

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S2: These are not trying to get them to pay money,

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S2: for instance, that same type of multiplier.

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S1: Well, what one is getting more users quickly. But I

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S1: thought we were talking about like launching like an NFT,

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S1: for example, to gain a bunch of capital to be

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S1: able to hire developers.

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S2: It does do that, too. Yes. So it changes the model.

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S2: So there's more, more cash upfront earlier on. And it

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S2: also changes that same model. When you look at Axie Infinity,

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S2: this is a terrible game. It's like a knock off,

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S2: very poor, bad experience of Pokemon. It's nothing near as

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S2: good as, let's say, Pokemon Go, which Pokemon Go was

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S2: a craze out of a kind of a great new

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S2: game system, right? That just swept the world. This is

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S2: the lamest and dumbest game that has come out in

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S2: any major way anytime recently. But if someone were to

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S2: ask me, Hey, what's actually in of these prospects, I

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S2: would say it's great because they just put all the

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S2: money in the world in the bank, and everybody knows

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S2: with their IP is they have done the thing you're describing,

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S2: which they basically do to fundraise on a kind of

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S2: bad game. Now they can iterate on that game and

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S2: they can invest a lot of capital in making better

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S2: versions of the game. And in one year, they're going

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S2: to have games that are better than Pokemon Go because

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S2: they have all this money.

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S1: So what is the engine that's driving it? How is it?

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S1: How is it surviving for six months or a year?

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S1: Like what's keeping it afloat?

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S2: Yes, I think that goes to some of the other

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S2: other elements that are happening so should move forward to

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S2: the first one is like the financial models change. Sure, sure.

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S2: So so I think the second one is the change

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S2: of people who are involved in something and turning them

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S2: into owners of that faith. And I have a funny

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S2: story about our background. I use an iPhone where an

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S2: iPhone family and I have five kids and a wife

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S2: and every one of us has some kind of Apple device.

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S2: And the reason we have Apple devices is because of you,

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S2: because many years ago you dragged me into a, you know,

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S2: an Apple store and you bought me an iPhone because

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S2: you're a man who influences people, write you. You basically

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S2: have like a an attachment to Apple, and you shared

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S2: and dragged me along that attachment spread to other people

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S2: in marketing. This is called also being an app, and

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S2: it's also being an influencer right near that, whether in

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S2: a podcast or in person, you do the same thing

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S2: with people all around. Mm-Hmm. Well, when you when you

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S2: take something like a game and you actually give people

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S2: an ownership stake in it by giving them a thing

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S2: that they can then transfer and own and can change

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S2: in value, you turn people far more into being mavin

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S2: through your product, being influencers, free product, being stakeholders, having

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S2: a reason to get other people to do it. So

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S2: one of the shocking things is this game that is terrible.

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S2: Axie Infinity actually has longer play times, higher growth than

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S2: other conventional games because they have turned every single person

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S2: who owns any piece of it, who owns an NFT.

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S2: Who's playing this game into an advocate for it? And

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S2: so they are they're weaponizing their own owners and their

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S2: own community members to go and recruit more people because

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S2: they all share that benefit together in the same emotional

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S2: way that you advocate for for Apple. When you bought

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00:11:01,868 --> 00:11:04,138
S2: me and I thought you didn't have a stake, that right?

224
00:11:05,018 --> 00:11:07,178
S1: So I don't know much about this game. Can I

225
00:11:07,548 --> 00:11:10,808
S1: offer like a cynical approach to this? Is it just

226
00:11:10,808 --> 00:11:14,678
S1: that it is free to play, to earn? Therefore, it's

227
00:11:14,678 --> 00:11:17,858
S1: an income generation system. Therefore, a lot of people are

228
00:11:17,858 --> 00:11:19,778
S1: making money off of it, so they're excited about it

229
00:11:19,778 --> 00:11:20,348
S1: for that reason.

230
00:11:21,098 --> 00:11:24,008
S2: Here's the really fascinating thing. Yes, yes and no. So

231
00:11:24,008 --> 00:11:26,858
S2: there's another restriction that isn't just to earn. So what

232
00:11:26,858 --> 00:11:30,818
S2: warcraft a game dear to my heart I played for

233
00:11:31,028 --> 00:11:33,758
S2: a very long time has a much better earning engine

234
00:11:33,758 --> 00:11:37,268
S2: than actually infinity. If you were to go and basically

235
00:11:37,268 --> 00:11:39,938
S2: buy a five dollar asset in World of Warcraft and

236
00:11:39,938 --> 00:11:41,978
S2: know how to use that asset correctly, you can make

237
00:11:41,978 --> 00:11:45,358
S2: between one to $200 a day on that asset. And

238
00:11:45,358 --> 00:11:47,308
S2: that's the exchange, the way people think about I own that,

239
00:11:47,308 --> 00:11:50,098
S2: I own the thing I own property, what moneys that

240
00:11:50,098 --> 00:11:52,768
S2: you bring for me. So the money being generated from

241
00:11:52,768 --> 00:11:55,918
S2: a job in World War Craft is like 25 percent

242
00:11:55,918 --> 00:11:58,588
S2: per day of the value that I set. If you

243
00:11:58,588 --> 00:12:02,308
S2: go and buy a team for accidentally, it costs $100

244
00:12:03,118 --> 00:12:06,688
S2: and it generates about $35 dollars a day. So the

245
00:12:06,688 --> 00:12:09,028
S2: people who are working in this, so people in the U.S.

246
00:12:09,028 --> 00:12:10,678
S2: are buying the assets and then they're farming out the

247
00:12:10,678 --> 00:12:14,188
S2: jobs to other countries, like in East Asia. But the

248
00:12:14,188 --> 00:12:17,488
S2: income per job is much, much worse than will work out. Well,

249
00:12:17,488 --> 00:12:19,708
S2: what's the difference then between Acxiom theory and will work

250
00:12:19,708 --> 00:12:23,218
S2: out why is actually infinity engaging people more and being

251
00:12:23,218 --> 00:12:28,378
S2: more viral? And the reason is it's allowed. And apparently,

252
00:12:28,378 --> 00:12:30,098
S2: when you make something of black market item like in

253
00:12:30,118 --> 00:12:32,548
S2: World of Warcraft and you, there's a risk hanging over

254
00:12:32,548 --> 00:12:35,338
S2: your head. People don't build businesses and do jobs out

255
00:12:35,338 --> 00:12:37,678
S2: of that. So what a work. The simple idea that

256
00:12:37,678 --> 00:12:41,458
S2: Blizzard never approved these types of transactions. They're still happening

257
00:12:41,458 --> 00:12:45,748
S2: on a black market, but that disapproval, that complexity made

258
00:12:45,748 --> 00:12:47,578
S2: it so people, not as many people are doing it

259
00:12:47,578 --> 00:12:50,038
S2: as a job, even though it pays better. Whereas once

260
00:12:50,038 --> 00:12:51,628
S2: you approve it and you say, you know what? This

261
00:12:51,628 --> 00:12:53,338
S2: is the difference between like, are you a taxi driver?

262
00:12:53,488 --> 00:12:55,138
S2: But you're looking over your shoulder constantly to see if

263
00:12:55,138 --> 00:12:57,208
S2: cops are going to stop you and take away your taxi? Hmm.

264
00:12:57,418 --> 00:12:58,898
S2: But you can earn a hundred times more if you're

265
00:12:58,898 --> 00:13:01,858
S2: a black market taxi driver or are you a legitimate

266
00:13:01,858 --> 00:13:05,248
S2: taxi driver or legitimate Uber and you're allowed to actually operate?

267
00:13:05,488 --> 00:13:07,498
S2: And so when they made it, you're allowed to operate

268
00:13:07,498 --> 00:13:10,288
S2: in this fashion that that was the change, even though

269
00:13:10,288 --> 00:13:13,288
S2: the mechanisms to make money were already there. One is

270
00:13:13,288 --> 00:13:14,608
S2: legal and one is essentially illegal.

271
00:13:14,728 --> 00:13:17,338
S1: Didn't you have another example of this with a Fortnite

272
00:13:17,338 --> 00:13:19,258
S1: mod or a Minecraft mod?

273
00:13:20,328 --> 00:13:23,688
S2: Yeah, so if we go back to the origin of

274
00:13:24,198 --> 00:13:27,168
S2: battle royales and we go back to the origin of MOBAs,

275
00:13:27,438 --> 00:13:29,608
S2: both of these things were created by communities will get

276
00:13:29,658 --> 00:13:33,648
S2: that probably later in this example as well. But Minecraft

277
00:13:34,098 --> 00:13:39,168
S2: as a game did not allow people to monetize external

278
00:13:39,168 --> 00:13:41,358
S2: from Minecraft itself for a long time until Microsoft bought them.

279
00:13:41,838 --> 00:13:45,318
S2: And one of the things that happened was someone created,

280
00:13:45,318 --> 00:13:48,258
S2: innovated a new type of game that was revolutionary, and

281
00:13:48,258 --> 00:13:50,718
S2: I remember watching some of the very first Hunger Games

282
00:13:50,718 --> 00:13:52,938
S2: and battles they were. They were battle rails. They were

283
00:13:52,938 --> 00:13:55,668
S2: inspired from the movie Hunger Games. Mm-Hmm. You weren't to

284
00:13:55,728 --> 00:13:57,978
S2: modifies them, right? So somebody made this mod and they

285
00:13:57,978 --> 00:13:59,988
S2: gave it away for free. Now, when you're when you're

286
00:13:59,988 --> 00:14:01,728
S2: making something, you're giving away for free and you can't

287
00:14:01,728 --> 00:14:05,908
S2: monetize it. You you're not putting incentives in the right place. Right?

288
00:14:05,928 --> 00:14:09,138
S2: It's like a weed startup companies b start companies. If

289
00:14:09,468 --> 00:14:11,688
S2: they couldn't make any money, would pharmaceutical please make drugs

290
00:14:12,048 --> 00:14:15,558
S2: if they couldn't, you know, benefit them? Afterwards, somebody went.

291
00:14:15,558 --> 00:14:18,078
S2: And with no perceived long term benefit when it created

292
00:14:18,528 --> 00:14:21,168
S2: Hunger Games mod in Minecraft, made no money on it.

293
00:14:21,768 --> 00:14:23,868
S2: And then a bunch of people realized waits is way better,

294
00:14:24,048 --> 00:14:26,118
S2: and then lots of different games started coming out following

295
00:14:26,118 --> 00:14:28,788
S2: that same formula. And that led us up to Fortnite,

296
00:14:28,788 --> 00:14:31,218
S2: which is one of the juggernauts now is literally a

297
00:14:31,218 --> 00:14:33,798
S2: knock off of this mod now who made The Hunger

298
00:14:33,798 --> 00:14:36,768
S2: Games mod? I have no idea. Did they make any money? No.

299
00:14:37,668 --> 00:14:39,348
S2: So they did not drive innovation in the way it

300
00:14:39,348 --> 00:14:43,788
S2: should have. If the incentive had been in a better place.

301
00:14:44,178 --> 00:14:48,138
S1: Hmm, interesting. OK, so that's two. What's number three?

302
00:14:49,108 --> 00:14:53,968
S2: So number three is the difference in the way these

303
00:14:53,968 --> 00:15:00,528
S2: companies are interacting with their communities. So. When you when

304
00:15:00,528 --> 00:15:03,978
S2: you look at a conventional game publisher like EA or

305
00:15:04,908 --> 00:15:07,728
S2: we're at a games. So, you know, I talk a

306
00:15:07,728 --> 00:15:10,008
S2: lot to Epic Games back before they became big with Fortnite,

307
00:15:10,248 --> 00:15:13,758
S2: and they attempted to be very focused on their community

308
00:15:13,758 --> 00:15:16,218
S2: and influencers. Once they got big, they kind of stopped.

309
00:15:17,018 --> 00:15:18,768
S2: They were trying to, but they stopped. You go to

310
00:15:18,768 --> 00:15:20,628
S2: the EEA and you say, Hey, I've got something that

311
00:15:20,628 --> 00:15:22,758
S2: relates to your community. Hey, let's do something great with

312
00:15:22,758 --> 00:15:25,128
S2: your community. They're going to be free to internet of

313
00:15:26,208 --> 00:15:29,298
S2: a conventional game company right now is built on the

314
00:15:29,298 --> 00:15:31,368
S2: idea that I'm going to go market. I'm going to

315
00:15:31,368 --> 00:15:33,378
S2: get users and I try to maximize the value of

316
00:15:33,378 --> 00:15:35,838
S2: most users. And if I can do anything to maximize

317
00:15:35,838 --> 00:15:38,058
S2: my value, I'm going to do that thing. How do

318
00:15:38,058 --> 00:15:39,288
S2: I make the most money from my people and how

319
00:15:39,288 --> 00:15:41,268
S2: do I get more people? And that's where their brains

320
00:15:41,268 --> 00:15:44,538
S2: are at. When you go to all the crypto gaming

321
00:15:44,538 --> 00:15:48,318
S2: companies that exist right now, they're very different. The CMO

322
00:15:48,318 --> 00:15:51,498
S2: for Gallo Games lives inside of their discord and talks

323
00:15:51,498 --> 00:15:54,208
S2: to people all day long. So I went and met

324
00:15:54,208 --> 00:15:57,958
S2: him at Decentral, which was a defy convention in Florida

325
00:15:58,258 --> 00:16:01,708
S2: three months ago. And I said to him, Hey, what's

326
00:16:01,708 --> 00:16:03,688
S2: the most important thing in your company? And his answer

327
00:16:03,808 --> 00:16:06,838
S2: wasn't how good my game is. His answer wasn't how

328
00:16:06,838 --> 00:16:09,328
S2: much money we make per user. His answer wasn't our

329
00:16:09,328 --> 00:16:13,438
S2: user acquisition. His answer was our community. Most important thing

330
00:16:13,438 --> 00:16:15,538
S2: to us is our community. This is a guy who

331
00:16:15,538 --> 00:16:18,388
S2: the CMO of this now 10 plus billion dollar company.

332
00:16:18,688 --> 00:16:21,838
S2: He lives all day long in discord. It's like his

333
00:16:21,838 --> 00:16:24,298
S2: desk is sitting in front of a glass window that

334
00:16:24,298 --> 00:16:27,508
S2: has a test. A testing group going on inside of it,

335
00:16:27,658 --> 00:16:29,848
S2: which is constantly testing everything they're doing. And he is

336
00:16:29,848 --> 00:16:32,908
S2: watching that nonstop. He is completely plugged into the community,

337
00:16:33,178 --> 00:16:35,248
S2: as is everybody in the company. And if I say

338
00:16:35,248 --> 00:16:37,978
S2: to him, Hey, listen, I've got a technique that will

339
00:16:37,978 --> 00:16:40,948
S2: add 30 percent more to your monetization, but you know

340
00:16:40,948 --> 00:16:43,258
S2: your community may not like it. He would laugh in

341
00:16:43,258 --> 00:16:45,268
S2: my face and say, like, Are you kidding me? We

342
00:16:45,268 --> 00:16:47,578
S2: don't do things like, you know, you just like all

343
00:16:47,578 --> 00:16:51,058
S2: these crypto companies because there is a an absence of

344
00:16:51,058 --> 00:16:53,848
S2: ability to market conventionally right now for crypto games. They

345
00:16:53,848 --> 00:16:57,598
S2: have been built from this fundamental idea of We are

346
00:16:57,898 --> 00:17:01,708
S2: games for communities. Our users are our mavens. Therefore, they

347
00:17:01,708 --> 00:17:04,618
S2: must be happy. This is like if Apple said, Hey Dan,

348
00:17:05,788 --> 00:17:08,038
S2: do you want me to charge you? X amount more

349
00:17:08,038 --> 00:17:11,428
S2: for an Apple product? Right? And all they care about

350
00:17:11,428 --> 00:17:12,898
S2: how much money they get from you? Or do you

351
00:17:12,898 --> 00:17:14,878
S2: want Apple to call you and say, Hey, hey, Dan,

352
00:17:15,118 --> 00:17:18,418
S2: what was going to make your experience with the iPhone better? Hmm. Right?

353
00:17:18,838 --> 00:17:21,298
S2: These are companies that are built fundamentally from the idea

354
00:17:21,298 --> 00:17:23,818
S2: of how do we keep our community engaged? How do

355
00:17:23,818 --> 00:17:25,588
S2: we listen to our communities? How do we be responsive?

356
00:17:26,488 --> 00:17:30,418
S2: And because they're built that way? The occurrences I mentioned

357
00:17:30,418 --> 00:17:33,808
S2: earlier League of Legends of being a mobile and battery

358
00:17:33,808 --> 00:17:38,768
S2: owls like Fortnite being a. Being a battle royale, those

359
00:17:38,768 --> 00:17:42,158
S2: things were invented by communities and ignored by game developers

360
00:17:42,158 --> 00:17:45,908
S2: for years. Hmm. It's very slow adoption. The crypto gaming

361
00:17:45,908 --> 00:17:48,308
S2: world does not ignore its community. They are the most

362
00:17:48,308 --> 00:17:51,668
S2: hyper responsive to community companies, their art. It is fundamental

363
00:17:51,668 --> 00:17:53,618
S2: in their DNA, and I do believe that as they're

364
00:17:53,618 --> 00:17:55,718
S2: getting bigger and bigger, they're not going to lose that

365
00:17:55,718 --> 00:17:57,488
S2: in their DNA. And I do believe that that is

366
00:17:57,488 --> 00:18:00,188
S2: a massive competitive advantage because they're actually listening to the

367
00:18:00,188 --> 00:18:02,078
S2: consumer in a deep way that that other people are not.

368
00:18:02,528 --> 00:18:07,628
S1: So is this because in this world, essentially those folks

369
00:18:07,628 --> 00:18:12,458
S1: are not just users, they're also marketers and they're also creators.

370
00:18:13,088 --> 00:18:14,768
S2: That's right. Yeah, which which will lead us to our

371
00:18:14,768 --> 00:18:16,468
S2: first point of the greater part as well. But that

372
00:18:16,508 --> 00:18:19,388
S2: is exactly right because you're you're consumers. Are everything right?

373
00:18:19,628 --> 00:18:21,728
S2: I think one of the ways that ticktalk has managed

374
00:18:21,728 --> 00:18:26,378
S2: to be even more viral than YouTube is not only

375
00:18:26,378 --> 00:18:30,038
S2: is it giving you access to UGC, but it's actually

376
00:18:30,038 --> 00:18:33,098
S2: taking everybody who watches TikTok and makes it really, really

377
00:18:33,098 --> 00:18:35,868
S2: easy to pull you in as a creator yourself, right?

378
00:18:35,948 --> 00:18:38,708
S2: Or try to involve the individual. And when my kids

379
00:18:38,708 --> 00:18:40,298
S2: bring TikTok home and they go, Oh, look at this

380
00:18:40,298 --> 00:18:42,728
S2: new TikTok. What they do, they they go filmed themselves

381
00:18:42,728 --> 00:18:45,608
S2: doing the same thing. They've now flipped it around and

382
00:18:45,608 --> 00:18:47,888
S2: now they're bringing all their friends and they're recruiting and

383
00:18:47,888 --> 00:18:50,618
S2: they're becoming those advocates for that software that has helped

384
00:18:50,618 --> 00:18:53,498
S2: drive TikTok. Well, that's true of all of these CryptoGames

385
00:18:53,498 --> 00:18:55,938
S2: in an even deeper fashion, because not only are you

386
00:18:56,108 --> 00:18:58,568
S2: essentially part of creation, but you're also part of ownership.

387
00:18:59,348 --> 00:19:02,618
S2: And that transformation in the way that people are involved

388
00:19:02,828 --> 00:19:05,588
S2: has made these companies recognize, OK, you know, community is

389
00:19:05,588 --> 00:19:08,648
S2: the most important thing. And now when Blizzard and Facebook

390
00:19:08,648 --> 00:19:11,498
S2: come along and try to play in this in this arena,

391
00:19:11,918 --> 00:19:14,888
S2: they haven't grown up from that DNA, right? They they

392
00:19:14,888 --> 00:19:16,328
S2: have people who are over here thinking about how do

393
00:19:16,328 --> 00:19:19,388
S2: I maximize my user experience? How do I get the

394
00:19:19,388 --> 00:19:21,278
S2: most money from people? How do I make this so

395
00:19:21,278 --> 00:19:23,888
S2: I can have the best marketing campaigns there? Their old

396
00:19:23,888 --> 00:19:26,198
S2: world mindset is not going to change that easily to

397
00:19:26,198 --> 00:19:28,178
S2: thinking instead, Hey, I need to be sitting in a

398
00:19:28,178 --> 00:19:31,598
S2: room with a thousand people who are who are my

399
00:19:31,598 --> 00:19:33,578
S2: advocate and my users right now and all the time.

400
00:19:34,268 --> 00:19:36,728
S2: That is a fundamental different DNA that I do not

401
00:19:36,728 --> 00:19:38,318
S2: see in these major companies that I do see in

402
00:19:38,318 --> 00:19:40,598
S2: all of the crypto companies. And I think it's going

403
00:19:40,598 --> 00:19:43,088
S2: to give them a long term competitive edge. It's temporary

404
00:19:43,268 --> 00:19:44,738
S2: because actually the rest of the world might change that

405
00:19:44,738 --> 00:19:47,768
S2: model to eventually. So this is not an implicit like

406
00:19:47,768 --> 00:19:50,378
S2: inherent persistent advantage, but it's certainly an advantage it's going

407
00:19:50,378 --> 00:19:51,518
S2: to carry forward for a few years.

408
00:19:52,238 --> 00:19:55,808
S1: Interesting. And so number four is creators.

409
00:19:56,618 --> 00:19:59,228
S2: Yeah. So creators, right? We've seen this with YouTube. We've

410
00:19:59,228 --> 00:20:02,798
S2: seen this with tech talk that the ability to have

411
00:20:02,798 --> 00:20:06,818
S2: UGC means that you're not limited by like a company's creativity,

412
00:20:06,818 --> 00:20:09,788
S2: like CBS is limited by your own creativity. Right? Once

413
00:20:09,788 --> 00:20:11,858
S2: you add UGC, you multiply the amount of content you

414
00:20:11,858 --> 00:20:14,288
S2: multiply the variety of that content and people go find

415
00:20:14,288 --> 00:20:18,308
S2: out better and more in his ways of showing and

416
00:20:18,308 --> 00:20:21,198
S2: doing things. So YouTube is just a better model from

417
00:20:21,198 --> 00:20:24,088
S2: the UGC standpoint than, let's say, you know, like television. Mm-Hmm.

418
00:20:24,298 --> 00:20:27,458
S2: As we can see, just like a caucus now when

419
00:20:27,458 --> 00:20:32,978
S2: it comes to game creation. Right? Minecraft had a model

420
00:20:32,978 --> 00:20:34,988
S2: that said for a long time and a model that said, Hey,

421
00:20:34,988 --> 00:20:37,598
S2: you can come and build games out of Minecraft, but

422
00:20:37,598 --> 00:20:39,968
S2: you can't monetize them. So the incentive to do it

423
00:20:39,968 --> 00:20:42,788
S2: was very low. People still did it right. People still created.

424
00:20:42,788 --> 00:20:45,338
S2: What turned into now is Fortnite, but they didn't. They

425
00:20:45,338 --> 00:20:48,428
S2: didn't reaping the benefits. Well, if you look at the sandbox,

426
00:20:48,428 --> 00:20:50,528
S2: which is one of the games right now that exists,

427
00:20:50,858 --> 00:20:54,038
S2: they're mostly a toolkit to help people make their own games.

428
00:20:55,148 --> 00:20:57,908
S2: This is can magnify the capacity for innovation because now

429
00:20:58,718 --> 00:21:00,758
S2: all those people who used to go mod games for

430
00:21:00,758 --> 00:21:02,448
S2: every other game are going to say, Well, do I

431
00:21:02,448 --> 00:21:04,028
S2: want to go make them on my free game where

432
00:21:04,028 --> 00:21:05,768
S2: it's really hard to be a monetized? If I want

433
00:21:05,768 --> 00:21:08,708
S2: to monetize off of Minecraft Mod, it's actually not super easy.

434
00:21:09,788 --> 00:21:11,438
S2: You can do it now. Now they've adjusted so you

435
00:21:11,438 --> 00:21:13,628
S2: can do it, but it's still not very easy. You

436
00:21:13,628 --> 00:21:15,458
S2: want to go and do something out of the sandbox.

437
00:21:15,668 --> 00:21:18,548
S2: You have much more tools available to you to make

438
00:21:18,548 --> 00:21:21,698
S2: something that is unique, and you immediately own the vast

439
00:21:21,698 --> 00:21:24,458
S2: majority of the benefit. Right? How much money does the

440
00:21:24,458 --> 00:21:26,918
S2: sandbox make when I go invent a game that's really

441
00:21:26,918 --> 00:21:29,888
S2: a structured sandbox? It's like five percent. Almost all the

442
00:21:29,888 --> 00:21:32,228
S2: money is going straight to the creators of those games,

443
00:21:32,588 --> 00:21:34,028
S2: and this is the same kind of model that is

444
00:21:34,028 --> 00:21:37,238
S2: happening for all across in piece. The minting platforms and

445
00:21:37,238 --> 00:21:40,898
S2: the infrastructure are taking very little, but they're facilitating and

446
00:21:40,958 --> 00:21:46,058
S2: they're enabling people to actually create UGC and benefit from

447
00:21:46,058 --> 00:21:49,138
S2: it on YouTube. You know, you can benefit from your UGC.

448
00:21:49,208 --> 00:21:52,898
S2: It's actually pretty hard to make a living because YouTube

449
00:21:52,898 --> 00:21:54,778
S2: is still keeping the vast majority of the money right.

450
00:21:54,788 --> 00:21:56,258
S2: Most of the advertising dollars go to YouTube at a

451
00:21:56,258 --> 00:21:58,748
S2: very small amount goes to video creators. In this case

452
00:21:58,748 --> 00:22:01,388
S2: that that model is pushed much more extreme, where ninety

453
00:22:01,448 --> 00:22:03,518
S2: five percent of all the money from anybody who's trading

454
00:22:03,518 --> 00:22:06,068
S2: anything goes straight to the creators, which creates a much

455
00:22:06,068 --> 00:22:09,938
S2: bigger incentive for them to create things. And those things

456
00:22:09,938 --> 00:22:11,888
S2: have a lot more flexibility, maybe just from the past.

457
00:22:12,608 --> 00:22:15,278
S1: So we talked about Ready Player One in the past.

458
00:22:15,608 --> 00:22:18,728
S1: It seems like, I mean, the sandbox, essentially like an

459
00:22:18,728 --> 00:22:20,438
S1: SDK for how to that

460
00:22:20,948 --> 00:22:23,918
S2: system would create the. Yeah, exactly right in the in

461
00:22:23,918 --> 00:22:26,618
S2: the Ready Player One, you don't see the mechanisms behind

462
00:22:27,338 --> 00:22:30,518
S2: the floor with Ready Player One Metaverse is that it

463
00:22:30,518 --> 00:22:34,778
S2: was all owned by one company. And in the reality,

464
00:22:35,108 --> 00:22:37,158
S2: metaverse is emerging what it would be a. Be one

465
00:22:37,158 --> 00:22:40,008
S2: company who created the tools, but each of the world

466
00:22:40,008 --> 00:22:43,878
S2: in Ready Player One would actually be owned by somebody else. Yeah, right.

467
00:22:44,028 --> 00:22:45,738
S2: And that world would be like, Hey, listen, I own

468
00:22:45,738 --> 00:22:47,718
S2: the world of doom, right? Doom was by, I think,

469
00:22:47,718 --> 00:22:50,928
S2: one of the world's. MM-HMM. And I'm getting 95 percent

470
00:22:50,928 --> 00:22:53,358
S2: of the value out of doom or doom was owned

471
00:22:53,358 --> 00:22:54,828
S2: by a lot of people. It's actually spread out in

472
00:22:54,828 --> 00:22:57,258
S2: terms of ownership. And there is there's a company that

473
00:22:57,258 --> 00:23:01,518
S2: has that created infrastructure, but it's decentralized as possible. I

474
00:23:01,518 --> 00:23:03,078
S2: think it's the one piece that was missing from Ready

475
00:23:03,078 --> 00:23:04,868
S2: Player One that if you could go back and say,

476
00:23:04,938 --> 00:23:06,788
S2: how will that actually be in the future? It's actually

477
00:23:06,798 --> 00:23:08,538
S2: going to be okay. All those various worlds are owned

478
00:23:08,538 --> 00:23:12,948
S2: by individuals. And ironically, that if the if that core

479
00:23:12,948 --> 00:23:17,208
S2: infrastructure company, you know, went out of business or started

480
00:23:17,208 --> 00:23:20,418
S2: being exploitative, those worlds would go somewhere else because the

481
00:23:20,418 --> 00:23:21,378
S2: worlds are actually portable.

482
00:23:22,338 --> 00:23:25,848
S1: Uh, yeah, is it is funny. Just kind of reminds

483
00:23:25,848 --> 00:23:28,518
S1: me of some Soviet leader came over, I think, in

484
00:23:28,518 --> 00:23:32,238
S1: the 1980s to tour the US and was walking around,

485
00:23:32,238 --> 00:23:34,158
S1: I think New York City or something and just saw

486
00:23:34,158 --> 00:23:38,608
S1: all these markets outside on the street. And he looked

487
00:23:38,608 --> 00:23:41,818
S1: to his chaperone and said, Tom, show me the planner

488
00:23:42,568 --> 00:23:45,478
S1: who came up with this, this is amazing. And they're like, No, no,

489
00:23:45,668 --> 00:23:47,698
S1: all the different markets, they just put out their stuff

490
00:23:47,698 --> 00:23:50,548
S1: whenever they want. Well, it's like, who decides what to

491
00:23:50,548 --> 00:23:52,258
S1: put out? And they're like, No, it's all up to them.

492
00:23:52,678 --> 00:23:53,878
S2: Yeah, yeah. Right, exactly. Yeah.

493
00:23:54,258 --> 00:23:55,078
S1: Yeah. Very cool.

494
00:23:55,678 --> 00:23:58,468
S2: Yeah, actually, that transitions really well into kind of my

495
00:23:58,468 --> 00:24:01,708
S2: fifth point, which is persistence and decentralization. Right? We're talking

496
00:24:01,708 --> 00:24:05,288
S2: about the Ready Player One model, right? Uh, well, in

497
00:24:05,298 --> 00:24:07,198
S2: in the Web3 world right now, there's a lot of

498
00:24:07,198 --> 00:24:10,138
S2: people who are kind of A. Big Brother A. Facebook

499
00:24:13,108 --> 00:24:16,678
S2: for whatever happens to attract those people. But there is

500
00:24:16,678 --> 00:24:20,638
S2: actually a really super element to crypto gaming that can

501
00:24:20,638 --> 00:24:22,618
S2: make it way more persistent, and I can give a

502
00:24:22,618 --> 00:24:24,488
S2: couple examples of this. But first, we can start with

503
00:24:24,488 --> 00:24:27,298
S2: the Ready Player one example. The Ready Player One example is,

504
00:24:27,418 --> 00:24:31,468
S2: let's just say IOI from the movie takes over and

505
00:24:31,648 --> 00:24:34,828
S2: takes over the entire metaverse. And they say, Hey, guys,

506
00:24:34,828 --> 00:24:37,698
S2: we're gonna put up ads everywhere, right? And all these

507
00:24:37,708 --> 00:24:39,838
S2: are ago. Yeah, we don't want to have that experience. Well,

508
00:24:39,838 --> 00:24:41,728
S2: what happens to the person who's created the doom world

509
00:24:42,088 --> 00:24:44,218
S2: is the doom world is its own body of code.

510
00:24:44,398 --> 00:24:46,798
S2: It doesn't maybe have an interpretation of the K, but

511
00:24:46,798 --> 00:24:48,298
S2: it actually has its own group of users. It has

512
00:24:48,298 --> 00:24:49,978
S2: its own community, and what they can do is say,

513
00:24:50,098 --> 00:24:54,538
S2: You know what? We're going to unplug doom from your work,

514
00:24:54,568 --> 00:24:57,118
S2: your system, because you're showing all these ads and that's shitty,

515
00:24:57,478 --> 00:24:59,188
S2: and we're going to go plug it into the competitor

516
00:24:59,188 --> 00:25:01,678
S2: viewers that just made this just kind of copy too

517
00:25:01,678 --> 00:25:04,408
S2: much of your SDK elements. And if teams are essentially

518
00:25:04,408 --> 00:25:06,598
S2: infinitely transferable, it's not. Doom is going to pick up

519
00:25:06,598 --> 00:25:10,198
S2: its entire entire body and walk over here and plug

520
00:25:10,198 --> 00:25:13,618
S2: into a different system. And that new infrastructure could offer

521
00:25:13,618 --> 00:25:16,138
S2: a competitive edge. And you guys know, ads ad free

522
00:25:16,378 --> 00:25:18,448
S2: and all of those worlds pick up and walk over,

523
00:25:18,478 --> 00:25:21,178
S2: and Iowa is they're going, Wait, hey, guys, wait. But

524
00:25:21,178 --> 00:25:23,578
S2: we're the ones who started all this doesn't matter. Right?

525
00:25:23,758 --> 00:25:27,328
S2: This is a decentralized, persistent ownership that can be transferable.

526
00:25:27,568 --> 00:25:31,468
S2: You can transfer the entirety of the assets. And there's

527
00:25:31,468 --> 00:25:33,838
S2: an interesting example I have of this. There is an

528
00:25:33,838 --> 00:25:38,098
S2: NFT project that one of my colleagues is involved in.

529
00:25:38,098 --> 00:25:40,138
S2: I guess maybe all of singer name because this is

530
00:25:40,138 --> 00:25:43,918
S2: super disparaging, but they basically the guys ran off with

531
00:25:43,918 --> 00:25:46,948
S2: all the the money that was generated insanity project and

532
00:25:46,948 --> 00:25:48,948
S2: they're supposed to be building a game and they have

533
00:25:49,048 --> 00:25:51,778
S2: really engaged community. Well, they raised a bunch of money.

534
00:25:52,018 --> 00:25:54,718
S2: They took the money and then they left right called

535
00:25:54,718 --> 00:25:57,868
S2: a rental. It happens a lot in the NFT project, right? Well,

536
00:25:57,868 --> 00:25:59,548
S2: a different group came along and said, Hey, guys, you

537
00:25:59,548 --> 00:26:02,308
S2: know what? We like this community. We like this NFT project.

538
00:26:02,308 --> 00:26:04,528
S2: We know where the money got take out, but whatever

539
00:26:04,888 --> 00:26:08,458
S2: we'll take over the project or we'll clone the project. Hey,

540
00:26:08,458 --> 00:26:10,768
S2: everybody out there who already has this thing on the blockchain?

541
00:26:11,038 --> 00:26:12,988
S2: You know what? We're going to issue a new thing

542
00:26:12,988 --> 00:26:18,388
S2: for you on this other and this other chain we're

543
00:26:18,478 --> 00:26:20,038
S2: going to. We're going to give it to you, and

544
00:26:20,038 --> 00:26:21,428
S2: we're just going to migrate all you guys over here.

545
00:26:21,428 --> 00:26:22,408
S2: And hey, you know what? We're going to take care

546
00:26:22,408 --> 00:26:23,998
S2: of you. We're going to do cool stuff that they're

547
00:26:23,998 --> 00:26:24,348
S2: talking about.

548
00:26:24,368 --> 00:26:25,978
S1: We created a new rug. We're going to put it

549
00:26:25,978 --> 00:26:27,958
S1: under your feet that look just like the old rug

550
00:26:27,958 --> 00:26:28,498
S1: that got stolen.

551
00:26:29,128 --> 00:26:31,198
S2: Right, exactly. And they can do that very easily because

552
00:26:31,198 --> 00:26:33,958
S2: the technology allows that kind of transfer an interesting replication.

553
00:26:34,288 --> 00:26:36,538
S2: And so you can actually, you know, I could go

554
00:26:36,538 --> 00:26:38,998
S2: make a game that is a racing game right now.

555
00:26:39,148 --> 00:26:40,738
S2: And then I could say, Hey, by the way, guys,

556
00:26:40,858 --> 00:26:42,838
S2: gala games has this game called spider tanks where you

557
00:26:42,838 --> 00:26:44,938
S2: go and you fight. And I love the way they've

558
00:26:45,178 --> 00:26:48,298
S2: visualized all of their tanks and it's a super fun game. But,

559
00:26:48,298 --> 00:26:50,338
S2: you know, I really want to race things and they

560
00:26:50,338 --> 00:26:52,408
S2: won't answer the phone. So I went made my own

561
00:26:52,408 --> 00:26:55,738
S2: racing game and everybody who owns a spider tank gallon games,

562
00:26:56,068 --> 00:26:58,738
S2: I've just issued you one of my one of my

563
00:26:58,738 --> 00:27:01,168
S2: race cars and I've inspired it off of the art

564
00:27:01,168 --> 00:27:04,198
S2: from whatever it was you already had. It's portable and

565
00:27:04,198 --> 00:27:06,928
S2: it's persistent. Something can die. Bard's tale can go out

566
00:27:06,928 --> 00:27:09,868
S2: of business. Gallon games can close their spider tanks. I

567
00:27:09,868 --> 00:27:13,258
S2: can put up ads and those assets are portable and transferable,

568
00:27:13,258 --> 00:27:16,768
S2: and it's it allows for a type of persistence that

569
00:27:16,768 --> 00:27:19,228
S2: means that these things won't die. This is why people

570
00:27:19,228 --> 00:27:22,438
S2: are obsessed with this, this real estate and obsessed with

571
00:27:22,438 --> 00:27:24,208
S2: kind of the digital. I can only own a piece

572
00:27:24,208 --> 00:27:26,728
S2: of digital real estate because it'll be persistent. Even the

573
00:27:26,728 --> 00:27:29,398
S2: company issuing a ghost business, that real estate is still

574
00:27:29,398 --> 00:27:31,858
S2: there and someone else will use it in the same way.

575
00:27:33,368 --> 00:27:36,698
S1: This is fascinating. I think we talked about the biology stuff,

576
00:27:37,658 --> 00:27:40,598
S1: the Web3 stuff, the Sam Harris podcast, where biology was

577
00:27:40,598 --> 00:27:44,048
S1: on there and talking about it. This to me, what

578
00:27:44,048 --> 00:27:46,448
S1: you're talking about is very Web3, and he's talking about

579
00:27:46,448 --> 00:27:49,958
S1: in in the context of meat space. And like, you know,

580
00:27:50,618 --> 00:27:55,508
S1: the city of Austin gets a CEO instead of a mayor. Right?

581
00:27:55,958 --> 00:27:58,748
S1: And they say, OK, here's our tax law. Here's our

582
00:27:58,748 --> 00:28:01,358
S1: traffic laws. Here's how you get fines. Here's how you

583
00:28:01,358 --> 00:28:04,778
S1: get stoplight, you know, tickets or whatever. And like, here's

584
00:28:04,778 --> 00:28:07,898
S1: our system and you decide to be part of it

585
00:28:07,898 --> 00:28:10,058
S1: or not. And you have a competing one over here

586
00:28:10,058 --> 00:28:12,998
S1: in Houston. Yep. And the idea is that you, you

587
00:28:12,998 --> 00:28:16,838
S1: vote with your feet or whatever. In this case, more digitally.

588
00:28:16,838 --> 00:28:18,758
S1: But it seems like it's kind of the same thing

589
00:28:18,758 --> 00:28:21,488
S1: you're saying. It's like, I love this damn world, except for,

590
00:28:21,488 --> 00:28:24,278
S1: I hate the rules over here. So someone just forks it.

591
00:28:24,458 --> 00:28:27,578
S1: And now it's it's it's almost the same, but slightly

592
00:28:27,578 --> 00:28:30,098
S1: different because these these different rules are different.

593
00:28:30,878 --> 00:28:33,008
S2: Yeah, this idea of voting with your feet is so powerful,

594
00:28:33,008 --> 00:28:35,768
S2: I think, in all of crypto, right? But beginning, it's

595
00:28:35,848 --> 00:28:37,788
S2: sort of like the front end of the sphere. Here

596
00:28:38,158 --> 00:28:40,418
S2: is the the place that has the most money and

597
00:28:40,418 --> 00:28:42,518
S2: the most users and the most engaged. So it'll be

598
00:28:42,518 --> 00:28:45,068
S2: the particle transformation. But yeah, it's the same thing is

599
00:28:45,068 --> 00:28:47,168
S2: actually voting with your feet is the same thing that

600
00:28:47,168 --> 00:28:51,788
S2: made free to play better than pay to play. Right now,

601
00:28:51,788 --> 00:28:53,858
S2: you can vote more accurate with your feet because you're

602
00:28:53,858 --> 00:28:55,748
S2: actually spending money where you want to, not just to

603
00:28:55,748 --> 00:28:57,818
S2: try a thing, but for thing that is actually proving

604
00:28:57,818 --> 00:29:00,008
S2: more long term value and then play to earn is

605
00:29:00,008 --> 00:29:01,598
S2: allow you to vote your feet in a more long

606
00:29:01,598 --> 00:29:04,028
S2: term way of like, Hey, first, I can try things

607
00:29:04,028 --> 00:29:06,698
S2: for free. Typically, then I can spend money where I

608
00:29:06,698 --> 00:29:08,588
S2: care about it, but then that money where I care

609
00:29:08,588 --> 00:29:11,258
S2: about it could both give back to me and be

610
00:29:11,258 --> 00:29:13,928
S2: persistent and can be transferable. And so there now becomes

611
00:29:13,928 --> 00:29:15,518
S2: like all these different ways to vote with your feet

612
00:29:15,518 --> 00:29:18,908
S2: that we didn't have before, and that magnifies your level

613
00:29:18,908 --> 00:29:20,888
S2: of engagement and magnifies you doing the right thing out

614
00:29:20,888 --> 00:29:23,298
S2: of it. So now the people who are involved here

615
00:29:23,428 --> 00:29:26,258
S2: start getting the things they care about, and we've removed

616
00:29:26,258 --> 00:29:28,658
S2: a big brother who's deciding what you care about. And

617
00:29:28,658 --> 00:29:30,968
S2: now we've turned it into, Hey, what are the actual

618
00:29:30,968 --> 00:29:31,868
S2: people saying they care about?

619
00:29:32,348 --> 00:29:35,498
S1: Yeah, it's really fascinating. I mean, it does start to

620
00:29:35,498 --> 00:29:39,218
S1: get pretty libertarian pretty quickly, because what it's talking about

621
00:29:39,218 --> 00:29:42,308
S1: is competition, right? You have a game. It's like it

622
00:29:42,308 --> 00:29:44,798
S1: makes you mostly happy, but you really hate this one thing.

623
00:29:45,308 --> 00:29:47,288
S1: You're just going to play another version of that game

624
00:29:47,288 --> 00:29:49,118
S1: where that thing's fixed. Yup.

625
00:29:49,998 --> 00:29:53,378
S2: Yeah. Because it's because it is the sort of the decentral.

626
00:29:53,378 --> 00:29:57,188
S2: This is the fifth point. Decentralization and the persistence right enables.

627
00:29:57,398 --> 00:30:00,938
S2: The decentralization allows it to be like no one person

628
00:30:00,938 --> 00:30:04,778
S2: decides it can lock you into an experience, right? Can

629
00:30:04,778 --> 00:30:06,848
S2: lock your assets into one place because there is a

630
00:30:06,848 --> 00:30:10,838
S2: portable and the biggest companies right now in the gaming space.

631
00:30:10,988 --> 00:30:13,808
S2: They know this. So if you go to the sandbox

632
00:30:13,808 --> 00:30:16,238
S2: for Gallo games, these are two of the, let's say,

633
00:30:16,238 --> 00:30:20,318
S2: six biggest companies out there right now that are already

634
00:30:20,318 --> 00:30:23,558
S2: established in the in the crypto gaming world. They play

635
00:30:23,558 --> 00:30:27,518
S2: super nice together. In fact, like they really, really want

636
00:30:27,518 --> 00:30:30,068
S2: to be friends because they recognize that they have to

637
00:30:30,068 --> 00:30:34,388
S2: actually have, like sort of friends and collaboration and communities,

638
00:30:34,418 --> 00:30:36,938
S2: and it's all about playing together. They can't stick out

639
00:30:36,938 --> 00:30:41,828
S2: their territory. Like, does Facebook go and call Microsoft and say, Hey, guys,

640
00:30:42,008 --> 00:30:43,658
S2: we want to figure out how we can play better

641
00:30:43,658 --> 00:30:46,208
S2: and nicer together. We want all of our stuff to crossover.

642
00:30:46,208 --> 00:30:48,428
S2: We should know. They're putting up fences and trying to

643
00:30:48,428 --> 00:30:52,718
S2: stake out their territory, right? Games and sandbox are inspired

644
00:30:52,718 --> 00:30:55,508
S2: by each other. And when a new thing comes out, Hey, hey,

645
00:30:55,508 --> 00:30:57,278
S2: this new thing? Hey, can we do this thing together?

646
00:30:57,788 --> 00:31:00,698
S1: So what do you think games do relative to, you know,

647
00:31:00,718 --> 00:31:03,038
S1: that's different than sandbox is exactly the same? Or is

648
00:31:03,038 --> 00:31:03,728
S1: that a different take?

649
00:31:05,078 --> 00:31:07,928
S2: It's actually a very different take. So Galaga games started

650
00:31:07,928 --> 00:31:10,298
S2: out by they were a bunch of guys who basically

651
00:31:10,298 --> 00:31:14,288
S2: had made Farmville, and they're like, Well, Farmville was a

652
00:31:14,288 --> 00:31:16,688
S2: great free play game. Play to earn is better. Let's

653
00:31:16,688 --> 00:31:19,028
S2: go make Farmville in crypto game and they went and

654
00:31:19,028 --> 00:31:20,768
S2: made Farmville in crypto gaming. So we started out with

655
00:31:20,768 --> 00:31:23,708
S2: a single sort of proven game model. It wasn't ideal

656
00:31:24,608 --> 00:31:26,708
S2: and they started up again and then he realized, OK,

657
00:31:26,708 --> 00:31:29,588
S2: this is actually better, so let's do more games. And

658
00:31:29,588 --> 00:31:31,898
S2: so they started hiring independent game publishers with their money,

659
00:31:31,898 --> 00:31:34,028
S2: and they started building up games. And they basically their

660
00:31:34,028 --> 00:31:37,208
S2: approach was to go and individually themselves or contract to

661
00:31:37,208 --> 00:31:39,548
S2: build different games and then have a bunch of games

662
00:31:39,548 --> 00:31:41,468
S2: all under the banner. So they are much more of

663
00:31:41,468 --> 00:31:44,468
S2: a hey, we have like six games in development, like

664
00:31:44,468 --> 00:31:46,538
S2: three you can play right now. So they went and

665
00:31:46,538 --> 00:31:50,198
S2: built individual sandbox style tools to build games and built

666
00:31:50,198 --> 00:31:53,228
S2: this metaverse component. So they're playing together right now because

667
00:31:53,408 --> 00:31:55,718
S2: gal games like we have all these games, we have

668
00:31:55,718 --> 00:31:58,288
S2: no metaverse and we have tools to make games. Sandbox

669
00:31:58,328 --> 00:32:00,098
S2: is like we have a metaverse and we have tools

670
00:32:00,098 --> 00:32:03,338
S2: to make games. Let's play nice with delegates. And so they're,

671
00:32:03,368 --> 00:32:06,338
S2: you know, sort of being friends trying to connect these

672
00:32:06,338 --> 00:32:08,618
S2: things back and forth of Mexican, so.

673
00:32:09,288 --> 00:32:14,098
S1: So if we oversimplify. A sandbox has the ecosystem and

674
00:32:14,098 --> 00:32:16,168
S1: go games has the initial content

675
00:32:17,128 --> 00:32:18,948
S2: they have, they have some initial content they made themselves,

676
00:32:18,958 --> 00:32:21,088
S2: they didn't do it at UGC. So they have a

677
00:32:21,088 --> 00:32:23,768
S2: number of they had a faster way to go to market.

678
00:32:23,788 --> 00:32:26,818
S2: They did was easier, but it wasn't really as transformative

679
00:32:26,818 --> 00:32:29,128
S2: as Sandbox was doing because they just want made games

680
00:32:29,128 --> 00:32:32,518
S2: in this new model without trying to increase that isa.

681
00:32:32,848 --> 00:32:37,528
S2: So they skipped Item four, which was you. Gotcha. It

682
00:32:37,528 --> 00:32:39,028
S2: did make them go to market faster, but I think

683
00:32:39,028 --> 00:32:41,188
S2: they're aware that they missed that piece. They did this

684
00:32:41,188 --> 00:32:43,138
S2: launch a new thing that is also UGC So they

685
00:32:43,138 --> 00:32:44,938
S2: obviously know they're going to start filling in those gaps.

686
00:32:46,678 --> 00:32:48,688
S1: OK, so what are the five again altogether?

687
00:32:49,558 --> 00:32:51,618
S2: So the five are the change to the model, right?

688
00:32:51,658 --> 00:32:55,948
S2: That illusion from from a free to play and to

689
00:32:55,948 --> 00:33:00,328
S2: play to, erm, the financial model, the the the ability

690
00:33:00,328 --> 00:33:03,638
S2: to sort of bring more money upfront and the change

691
00:33:03,638 --> 00:33:06,778
S2: to the way users are paying and spending and the

692
00:33:06,778 --> 00:33:09,958
S2: change the financial model is the first one. The second

693
00:33:09,958 --> 00:33:12,988
S2: one is the way that you involve your owners and

694
00:33:12,988 --> 00:33:16,078
S2: your players and your margins and your influencers into actual

695
00:33:16,078 --> 00:33:18,148
S2: ownership and you turn them into advocates the way that

696
00:33:18,148 --> 00:33:21,668
S2: you know you're an advocate for Apple. Right? That happens automatically,

697
00:33:21,718 --> 00:33:23,938
S2: much more powerful. You give somebody something. You give them

698
00:33:23,938 --> 00:33:25,858
S2: a stake in something. They are way more likely to

699
00:33:25,858 --> 00:33:29,098
S2: think of it positively and recruit others. Mm-Hmm. The second

700
00:33:29,098 --> 00:33:30,898
S2: one is that the change in the model of ownership

701
00:33:30,898 --> 00:33:32,248
S2: by bringing people into the ownership.

702
00:33:33,248 --> 00:33:33,878
S1: And third one,

703
00:33:35,018 --> 00:33:37,928
S2: the third one is the fact that these companies right

704
00:33:37,928 --> 00:33:42,188
S2: now have a temporary advantage of being fundamental community DNA

705
00:33:42,188 --> 00:33:45,068
S2: companies where they listen to their communities. They're hyper responsive

706
00:33:45,068 --> 00:33:48,068
S2: to feedback because of one and two, right makes number

707
00:33:48,068 --> 00:33:50,228
S2: three make a lot of sense to them. I don't

708
00:33:50,228 --> 00:33:52,718
S2: know how long it will take for the other companies

709
00:33:52,718 --> 00:33:56,768
S2: like Metta and Microsoft to change their entire DNA. To

710
00:33:56,768 --> 00:33:58,748
S2: be like that, it might never happen. So all of

711
00:33:58,748 --> 00:34:01,178
S2: the existing companies that are that have grown up inside

712
00:34:01,178 --> 00:34:04,358
S2: of crypto gaming have this fundamental DNA that is, let's

713
00:34:04,358 --> 00:34:06,428
S2: listen to our community, which is a great practice for

714
00:34:06,428 --> 00:34:09,938
S2: any company and quadrupling a great practice for companies that

715
00:34:09,938 --> 00:34:10,558
S2: are in crypto game.

716
00:34:10,928 --> 00:34:15,608
S1: OK, so finance mavens community and was four and five.

717
00:34:16,058 --> 00:34:19,028
S2: Fourth is UGC. Right. And not only just the ability

718
00:34:19,028 --> 00:34:22,268
S2: to create UGC, but the ability to incentivize that. UGC

719
00:34:22,448 --> 00:34:24,638
S2: And most of the money goes to the UGC creators.

720
00:34:24,848 --> 00:34:27,018
S2: That's the creators of the world do make 95 percent

721
00:34:27,018 --> 00:34:29,738
S2: of the money, right? This is an improvement over the

722
00:34:29,738 --> 00:34:32,098
S2: other models for UGC. They're out there that you know

723
00:34:32,228 --> 00:34:33,938
S2: you can make YouTube videos. What only one thing you

724
00:34:33,938 --> 00:34:36,568
S2: can do on YouTube. You can record yourself and you make,

725
00:34:36,578 --> 00:34:39,338
S2: you know, 25 percent of what what is coming in

726
00:34:39,338 --> 00:34:42,968
S2: from advertising for this gaming is actually got more money

727
00:34:42,968 --> 00:34:45,518
S2: behind it, more user behind it. Ninety five percent goes

728
00:34:45,518 --> 00:34:47,918
S2: to the U.S. creators, and the amount of flexibility that

729
00:34:47,918 --> 00:34:52,588
S2: UGC is much, much greater. OK. And then the fifth

730
00:34:52,588 --> 00:34:55,318
S2: one is that decentralization and persistence, the fact that you

731
00:34:55,318 --> 00:34:58,918
S2: can port something from here to here, I can leverage

732
00:34:58,918 --> 00:35:01,288
S2: spider tanks, oh, I can't kind of come in to

733
00:35:01,298 --> 00:35:03,958
S2: control the whole thing. So your actual ownership of is

734
00:35:03,958 --> 00:35:06,928
S2: more true because because it is decentralized.

735
00:35:07,198 --> 00:35:09,388
S1: So would you say that's the closest to what three

736
00:35:09,628 --> 00:35:10,348
S1: is number five?

737
00:35:11,988 --> 00:35:16,218
S2: With. Yeah, I think the persistence and decentralization ownership, that's

738
00:35:16,218 --> 00:35:18,948
S2: one of the key elements of, you know, cryptocurrency as well,

739
00:35:19,878 --> 00:35:21,618
S2: no one can take down my currency that you know,

740
00:35:21,618 --> 00:35:24,048
S2: that I earn on on bitcoin. So I think that's

741
00:35:24,048 --> 00:35:26,118
S2: the most conventional sort of web theory of blockchain.

742
00:35:26,538 --> 00:35:32,798
S1: Interesting. So question for you about examples. I love your example.

743
00:35:32,808 --> 00:35:34,998
S1: I know you're a huge Disney fan. Can you talk

744
00:35:34,998 --> 00:35:37,668
S1: through like what Disney should have done or what they

745
00:35:37,668 --> 00:35:40,548
S1: still can do with, like issuing some sort of NFT

746
00:35:40,548 --> 00:35:43,308
S1: with like special powers and like how it feeds into

747
00:35:43,308 --> 00:35:44,328
S1: all five of your models?

748
00:35:45,138 --> 00:35:48,378
S2: Yeah, so well, with with this, let's talk about Disney Plus.

749
00:35:49,008 --> 00:35:51,528
S2: So now these five things these five things or these

750
00:35:51,528 --> 00:35:53,778
S2: are what existing crypto gaming. And so when we jump

751
00:35:53,778 --> 00:35:56,328
S2: over to Disney Plus, we're going be talking about just

752
00:35:56,328 --> 00:36:00,098
S2: entertainment rights and all of that exactly the same. But

753
00:36:00,298 --> 00:36:02,448
S2: but if you love this example, so Disney Plus, I'm

754
00:36:02,448 --> 00:36:05,118
S2: a huge fan of Disney Disney. You know, I love

755
00:36:05,118 --> 00:36:09,708
S2: Star Wars. I love Marvel movies. My kids all love

756
00:36:09,708 --> 00:36:13,038
S2: all princess movies. I love Pixar movies. This is like

757
00:36:13,218 --> 00:36:15,288
S2: four of the best types of content there is. So

758
00:36:15,288 --> 00:36:17,358
S2: when they announced Disney Plus, I'm like, OK, I'm in.

759
00:36:17,778 --> 00:36:20,508
S2: I am going to own Disney Plus for my entire life.

760
00:36:20,628 --> 00:36:22,698
S2: There is no chance that I won't. I know that

761
00:36:22,698 --> 00:36:25,128
S2: the second it gets announced that no matter almost no

762
00:36:25,128 --> 00:36:26,658
S2: matter how much they even charge, they charge four dollars

763
00:36:26,658 --> 00:36:29,208
S2: a month. I would still own Disney Plus. If they

764
00:36:29,208 --> 00:36:31,338
S2: charge one hundred, I would probably still own Disney Plus.

765
00:36:31,638 --> 00:36:33,858
S2: It relates to all five of my kids, myself, my wife.

766
00:36:34,098 --> 00:36:35,898
S2: It is of great importance and I believe it is

767
00:36:35,898 --> 00:36:37,878
S2: going to do very, very well. I'm like Disney Plus

768
00:36:38,208 --> 00:36:40,488
S2: is these are the kings of content. Remember, we called it. Yeah,

769
00:36:40,998 --> 00:36:43,038
S2: I said, this is going to do extremely well. There's

770
00:36:43,038 --> 00:36:44,568
S2: no prediction. It's going to be on the nose for

771
00:36:44,568 --> 00:36:45,498
S2: a while is going to do it's going to get

772
00:36:45,498 --> 00:36:47,928
S2: better and better over time. And they will win if

773
00:36:47,928 --> 00:36:49,398
S2: they're going to be three winners. It's one of they

774
00:36:49,398 --> 00:36:51,528
S2: will be one of those winners. So I would be

775
00:36:51,528 --> 00:36:53,778
S2: willing to invest in Disney Plus if it was a

776
00:36:53,778 --> 00:36:56,508
S2: carve out from Disney. Now, I don't know how successful

777
00:36:56,508 --> 00:36:59,718
S2: Disney would be. And, you know, coronavirus can by kick

778
00:36:59,718 --> 00:37:02,178
S2: the ass of their parks. But I knew and I

779
00:37:02,178 --> 00:37:05,028
S2: was sure Disney Plus was going to be successful if

780
00:37:05,028 --> 00:37:09,468
S2: Disney Plus had been modeled using this new blockchain. And

781
00:37:09,468 --> 00:37:10,818
S2: they had said, Hey guys, we're going to take a

782
00:37:10,818 --> 00:37:14,268
S2: page from the books of these other hyper growth, successful

783
00:37:14,268 --> 00:37:16,278
S2: financial models. And we're going to we're going to launch

784
00:37:16,278 --> 00:37:18,468
S2: a piece of Disney Plus. We're going to get an

785
00:37:18,468 --> 00:37:21,318
S2: NFT and this NFT is going to be a VIP pass.

786
00:37:21,828 --> 00:37:23,178
S2: And there's a lot of privileges we can add. And

787
00:37:23,178 --> 00:37:25,608
S2: this is where Disney let's just keep it simple. First

788
00:37:25,608 --> 00:37:27,948
S2: things first, this VIP pass is going to give you

789
00:37:27,948 --> 00:37:31,248
S2: a lifetime subscription to Disney Plus, and you're going to

790
00:37:31,248 --> 00:37:35,508
S2: own it and it's fully transferable. So this thing is

791
00:37:35,508 --> 00:37:38,058
S2: going to cost a thousand dollars. Now, Disney Plus cost,

792
00:37:38,448 --> 00:37:40,548
S2: is it six dollars an hour? I don't know, but

793
00:37:41,268 --> 00:37:45,378
S2: that's a hundred months of Disney Plus. Mm hmm. Hey,

794
00:37:45,378 --> 00:37:46,938
S2: we're going to sell four thousand dollars. We're going to

795
00:37:46,938 --> 00:37:50,598
S2: do 100000 of these VIP passes for Disney Plus. Well,

796
00:37:50,598 --> 00:37:52,548
S2: what would happen on day one? Prior to day one,

797
00:37:52,548 --> 00:37:54,678
S2: I would have gone out about three. Right? Because I

798
00:37:54,678 --> 00:37:57,198
S2: would have immediately invested in that micro opportunity because I

799
00:37:57,198 --> 00:37:58,878
S2: was such a big believer in it. I would have

800
00:37:58,878 --> 00:38:01,278
S2: bought 30 and I said, Hey, Dan, I'm going to

801
00:38:01,278 --> 00:38:02,508
S2: sell these for a long time because I think the

802
00:38:02,658 --> 00:38:04,098
S2: is going to go up. But if you want to

803
00:38:04,098 --> 00:38:06,228
S2: watch Disney Plus having a loan, you one of mine.

804
00:38:06,258 --> 00:38:07,968
S2: So here's one of my What am I going to

805
00:38:07,988 --> 00:38:10,668
S2: VIP badges? So you can also watch Disney Plus. I'm

806
00:38:10,668 --> 00:38:12,818
S2: going to let all my friends use my my things.

807
00:38:12,828 --> 00:38:14,838
S2: I get to be cool for a while, but I

808
00:38:14,838 --> 00:38:18,078
S2: also I believe that the value think significantly. So now

809
00:38:18,078 --> 00:38:22,518
S2: there are there are 100000 of these things, right? They

810
00:38:22,518 --> 00:38:24,438
S2: will sell out on day one, for sure. I bought

811
00:38:24,438 --> 00:38:27,458
S2: 30 myself. People like I get to own a VIP

812
00:38:27,468 --> 00:38:30,678
S2: lifetime pasta, always on Disney Plus. How many people are

813
00:38:30,678 --> 00:38:32,778
S2: there who bought just like me? Quite a few. Which

814
00:38:32,778 --> 00:38:34,608
S2: is why their numbers have blown up. They would have

815
00:38:34,608 --> 00:38:36,918
S2: earned more money on day one than they have earned

816
00:38:37,128 --> 00:38:40,068
S2: up to date so far. That's on day one. And

817
00:38:40,068 --> 00:38:42,438
S2: it would not cannibalize their audience is actually a small

818
00:38:42,438 --> 00:38:44,838
S2: percentage of their audience where they're charging a thousand dollars.

819
00:38:45,408 --> 00:38:48,648
S2: Now what happens on day to on day two? You

820
00:38:48,648 --> 00:38:51,018
S2: say to me, Hey, Andrew, did you notice that these

821
00:38:51,018 --> 00:38:53,268
S2: things sold out instantly and their value was now doubled?

822
00:38:53,598 --> 00:38:55,848
S2: I can't buy them anymore on the open market. They

823
00:38:55,848 --> 00:38:57,918
S2: now cost two thousand. Will you sell me one of

824
00:38:57,918 --> 00:39:00,288
S2: yours for fifteen hundred? And I go, Okay, sure, you're

825
00:39:00,288 --> 00:39:02,268
S2: my friend. No problem. I will sell you one of

826
00:39:02,268 --> 00:39:05,988
S2: my Disney VIP passes for fifteen hundred. I now make $500.

827
00:39:06,648 --> 00:39:09,828
S2: Five percent. That transaction goes back to Disney. Wait. Disney

828
00:39:09,828 --> 00:39:12,398
S2: just covered their monthly subscription fees for all my 30s

829
00:39:13,008 --> 00:39:14,968
S2: and 40s that I have off of off of Vine.

830
00:39:15,798 --> 00:39:18,888
S2: So they still are making their money. Now you also

831
00:39:18,888 --> 00:39:21,858
S2: own something that is part of this future right now.

832
00:39:21,858 --> 00:39:23,568
S2: Assuming they do this correctly and they don't go just

833
00:39:23,568 --> 00:39:26,028
S2: print way more of these, their value goes up and up.

834
00:39:26,448 --> 00:39:29,238
S2: And three months later, there are more and more people saying, Well,

835
00:39:29,238 --> 00:39:30,828
S2: I want to have a lifetime pass for Disney Plus.

836
00:39:30,828 --> 00:39:32,928
S2: And actually, if I'd been smart and I bought one,

837
00:39:33,228 --> 00:39:36,288
S2: the value of that pass without before. The more people

838
00:39:36,288 --> 00:39:37,968
S2: who do that, the more that the value was driven.

839
00:39:38,208 --> 00:39:40,698
S2: And now I have I have twenty eight sell well

840
00:39:40,698 --> 00:39:44,088
S2: passes that are all worth four thousand dollars. I go,

841
00:39:44,088 --> 00:39:45,678
S2: You know what? I give some of my kids to college,

842
00:39:45,888 --> 00:39:48,048
S2: so I'm going to go and liquidate 20 of these

843
00:39:48,258 --> 00:39:51,138
S2: and I'm going to make 80 grand. I have now

844
00:39:51,138 --> 00:39:55,038
S2: pocketed 50 grand. I've benefited personally off of the success

845
00:39:55,038 --> 00:39:56,838
S2: of Disney Plus because I called it as an investor.

846
00:39:57,228 --> 00:39:59,268
S2: I didn't it to be a Qualifié investor. There wasn't paperwork.

847
00:40:00,588 --> 00:40:03,258
S2: There's not particularly like any complexity with doing that. So

848
00:40:03,258 --> 00:40:06,228
S2: I've now made way more money than I invested in

849
00:40:06,228 --> 00:40:07,758
S2: this thing. That was pretty reliable, and this would have

850
00:40:08,328 --> 00:40:11,238
S2: would multiplied almost for sure. And I still have my life.

851
00:40:12,558 --> 00:40:17,328
S2: A VIP for Disney Plus now, has Disney Plus lost anything? No,

852
00:40:17,328 --> 00:40:20,508
S2: they're way ahead financially. They're getting residual income off of

853
00:40:20,508 --> 00:40:22,548
S2: the secondary market sales, which is more than they would

854
00:40:22,548 --> 00:40:25,458
S2: get off of subscriptions. I'm able to be able to

855
00:40:25,458 --> 00:40:27,768
S2: signal that I'm a cook because I own a Disney

856
00:40:27,858 --> 00:40:30,018
S2: VIP pass. I don't have to worry about paying that

857
00:40:30,018 --> 00:40:32,398
S2: bill anymore because honestly, I was going to pay that

858
00:40:32,398 --> 00:40:34,098
S2: bill for the rest of my life anyway. It's not

859
00:40:34,098 --> 00:40:36,468
S2: going to happen. I still wanted to do this same thing.

860
00:40:36,468 --> 00:40:39,158
S2: The MCU like, Hey, you know what? I buy a

861
00:40:39,888 --> 00:40:43,728
S2: a one time ticket to go to a movie theater like,

862
00:40:44,058 --> 00:40:45,888
S2: you know, and I can just go every single week.

863
00:40:46,098 --> 00:40:48,048
S2: They keep trying to do this with subscription fees, but

864
00:40:48,078 --> 00:40:49,308
S2: like they could do with an NFT and they could

865
00:40:49,308 --> 00:40:52,628
S2: raise theatres, could do the same thing with a smaller

866
00:40:52,678 --> 00:40:54,108
S2: people and actually raise a lot of money in the

867
00:40:54,108 --> 00:40:56,568
S2: short run, puts money in their pockets and then they're

868
00:40:56,568 --> 00:41:00,248
S2: still going make their money off a residual. Now, I

869
00:41:00,248 --> 00:41:01,658
S2: don't know how long will be until a company like

870
00:41:01,658 --> 00:41:04,508
S2: Disney can adapt to a new kind of model. But

871
00:41:04,508 --> 00:41:06,878
S2: this model's been proven in the nifty world by people

872
00:41:06,878 --> 00:41:10,748
S2: who aren't significant brands. And so my expectation is within

873
00:41:10,748 --> 00:41:14,228
S2: two to five years, this will sweep through everything, right?

874
00:41:14,318 --> 00:41:17,198
S2: And it's going to be now a hand in hand. OK,

875
00:41:17,198 --> 00:41:19,568
S2: I'm watching Disney Plus. OK, what's the part that we're

876
00:41:19,568 --> 00:41:23,238
S2: going to do that is persistent and decentralized and gives

877
00:41:23,258 --> 00:41:25,298
S2: ownership out because I want to create all those advocates.

878
00:41:25,298 --> 00:41:28,538
S2: I want to have more money upfront. You know, I

879
00:41:28,538 --> 00:41:30,578
S2: want to be seen to be give back to my community. OK,

880
00:41:30,578 --> 00:41:32,638
S2: that's half of it. And then what's the other half? Yeah.

881
00:41:32,678 --> 00:41:34,298
S2: And how many years will be until it happens and

882
00:41:34,418 --> 00:41:38,018
S2: happens everywhere? It's starting to happen, but it'll be slow

883
00:41:38,018 --> 00:41:40,478
S2: because it's hard for people like Disney to go, OK,

884
00:41:40,838 --> 00:41:43,838
S2: here's our conventional projection. We're using Disney Plus as using

885
00:41:43,838 --> 00:41:46,328
S2: a model from tells you to like you to look

886
00:41:46,328 --> 00:41:48,818
S2: at Netflix and see what Netflix do. They're not thinking, OK,

887
00:41:48,818 --> 00:41:51,338
S2: what's this innovative thing that just changed the way money

888
00:41:51,338 --> 00:41:53,648
S2: is flowing, the way users are engaged? That's not where

889
00:41:53,648 --> 00:41:56,048
S2: people are at yet. Not yet, but gaming will lead

890
00:41:56,048 --> 00:41:59,418
S2: the way for everything. And what's gaming does this, which

891
00:41:59,498 --> 00:42:03,098
S2: is sort of starting to, you know, Metta and Microsoft

892
00:42:03,098 --> 00:42:05,888
S2: and Blizzard? And you give us one more year in

893
00:42:05,888 --> 00:42:08,108
S2: gaming and then two more years in gaming. This is

894
00:42:08,108 --> 00:42:11,408
S2: going to sweep through and other gaming companies who don't

895
00:42:11,408 --> 00:42:13,388
S2: adapters can be decimated because it's going to be so

896
00:42:13,388 --> 00:42:16,028
S2: much superior in terms of its adoption. So a couple

897
00:42:16,028 --> 00:42:19,958
S2: of years from now, you know, it's Fortnite will be

898
00:42:19,958 --> 00:42:22,028
S2: doing this just like everybody else. All of gaming will

899
00:42:22,028 --> 00:42:23,828
S2: do it. And then it'll become very easy for companies

900
00:42:23,828 --> 00:42:26,348
S2: like Disney Plus to be like, Oh, wait, you know what?

901
00:42:26,738 --> 00:42:28,388
S2: It works in gaming. Why wouldn't that work over here?

902
00:42:29,018 --> 00:42:30,998
S1: Yeah. And I think you even had an example where

903
00:42:30,998 --> 00:42:36,458
S1: somebody was trying to sell tickets to a club, to

904
00:42:36,488 --> 00:42:39,098
S1: a deejay club or whatever and they like couldn't get

905
00:42:39,098 --> 00:42:40,898
S1: any traction. They were talking to you about an NFT

906
00:42:40,898 --> 00:42:42,758
S1: is and you're like, Why don't you just do this instead?

907
00:42:43,598 --> 00:42:45,218
S2: Yeah. So so I know these guys and they have

908
00:42:45,218 --> 00:42:47,828
S2: an event marketing company in Prague, and what they do

909
00:42:47,828 --> 00:42:50,348
S2: is they go and they give out free tickets and

910
00:42:50,348 --> 00:42:53,528
S2: they give out free tickets to different club events. And

911
00:42:53,528 --> 00:42:54,908
S2: the reason they got free tickets is when you give

912
00:42:54,908 --> 00:42:57,188
S2: out 300 free tickets to a club and a giant

913
00:42:57,188 --> 00:42:59,768
S2: party happening at this club. Well, those three people will

914
00:42:59,768 --> 00:43:02,438
S2: go and bring another 900 people right, and then they

915
00:43:02,438 --> 00:43:04,688
S2: get a very small percentage of the door. So their

916
00:43:04,688 --> 00:43:06,968
S2: job is to go out and get out 300 free tickets. So.

917
00:43:07,058 --> 00:43:08,338
S2: So that's one thing where people show up to this

918
00:43:08,348 --> 00:43:10,748
S2: club and then they get a small percent of the

919
00:43:10,748 --> 00:43:12,758
S2: door and that's their model. And they're like, Yeah, we're

920
00:43:12,758 --> 00:43:15,158
S2: always looking for ways to improve our model. I said, OK, well,

921
00:43:15,158 --> 00:43:16,538
S2: you have a mailing list. You go out and give

922
00:43:16,538 --> 00:43:18,098
S2: out tickets in person. You do these very things that

923
00:43:18,098 --> 00:43:21,428
S2: these tickets out well, why don't you just sell the

924
00:43:21,428 --> 00:43:25,108
S2: interests of these clubs costs $8000. So cost, you know,

925
00:43:25,118 --> 00:43:26,738
S2: let's say it cost $10 to get in one door.

926
00:43:26,738 --> 00:43:29,718
S2: Cost $7. Medicare cost $7 to get in one of

927
00:43:29,718 --> 00:43:32,318
S2: these clubs. Mm hmm. Well, when you give out those

928
00:43:32,318 --> 00:43:34,838
S2: theater tickets, people are happy because reading something free, you're

929
00:43:34,838 --> 00:43:37,628
S2: turning them into your marketing and for free else. Why

930
00:43:37,628 --> 00:43:40,088
S2: don't you take those people that you're regularly emailing? Take

931
00:43:40,088 --> 00:43:41,558
S2: people that you're really going out and trying to get

932
00:43:41,558 --> 00:43:43,118
S2: them to sign up and go to these these parties

933
00:43:43,118 --> 00:43:47,258
S2: for free and actually offer those people hey, instead of

934
00:43:47,258 --> 00:43:49,718
S2: one free tickets, I'm going to give you a free

935
00:43:49,718 --> 00:43:53,978
S2: ticket to every party happening in Prague, in Prague, at

936
00:43:53,978 --> 00:43:55,658
S2: one of these giant clubs, and they actually have one

937
00:43:55,658 --> 00:43:58,148
S2: every night because they've been doing this event thing every night.

938
00:43:58,448 --> 00:44:00,128
S2: So there are seven nights a week and people, you know,

939
00:44:00,248 --> 00:44:02,408
S2: young people in the party love to go to clubs

940
00:44:02,798 --> 00:44:03,908
S2: so you can go and say, Hey, by the way,

941
00:44:03,908 --> 00:44:05,738
S2: it normally costs you seven dollars to get into one

942
00:44:05,738 --> 00:44:07,868
S2: of these clubs doing one of these events because they're

943
00:44:07,868 --> 00:44:10,388
S2: really cool. Hey, if you buy this thing right here,

944
00:44:10,388 --> 00:44:16,268
S2: which costs $50, this is lifetime free lifetime. How many?

945
00:44:16,268 --> 00:44:17,828
S2: How many of these parties do you go to per month?

946
00:44:18,308 --> 00:44:20,768
S2: Is it? How often? How long is it until you

947
00:44:20,768 --> 00:44:23,648
S2: get your money back? Right? And they said these people's

948
00:44:23,648 --> 00:44:25,268
S2: return rate is super high and these people are going

949
00:44:25,268 --> 00:44:27,758
S2: to one or two parties a week. Mm-Hmm. So in

950
00:44:27,758 --> 00:44:30,068
S2: what month they will get their money back? Right? So

951
00:44:30,068 --> 00:44:31,748
S2: you can say to them, Hey, guys, I could give

952
00:44:31,748 --> 00:44:34,088
S2: you a free ticket or I can sell you a

953
00:44:34,088 --> 00:44:36,368
S2: lifetime supply of free tickets. Every one of these parties

954
00:44:36,368 --> 00:44:37,928
S2: you can go into and they can go out and

955
00:44:37,928 --> 00:44:42,438
S2: they could sell a thousand or 2000 or 4000 of these.

956
00:44:42,458 --> 00:44:44,918
S2: And it's the technology makes it very easy for me

957
00:44:44,918 --> 00:44:48,038
S2: to do this, and that gives somebody a VIP pass

958
00:44:48,038 --> 00:44:49,598
S2: to get in all these clubs. First of all, it's

959
00:44:49,598 --> 00:44:51,878
S2: signaling it's cooler. They get to show up and be like,

960
00:44:52,088 --> 00:44:54,218
S1: flash their pass and special line, whatever.

961
00:44:54,278 --> 00:44:56,258
S2: Yeah, special line. I have a thing that, oh yeah,

962
00:44:56,258 --> 00:44:57,878
S2: it's free for me forever. Wait, how do I go

963
00:44:57,878 --> 00:45:00,398
S2: one of those? You can't. They're sold out. You want

964
00:45:00,398 --> 00:45:02,798
S2: to buy mine? It costs you $500 because you can't

965
00:45:02,798 --> 00:45:04,898
S2: even buy it. Sergeant more they go when they sell

966
00:45:04,898 --> 00:45:07,628
S2: the first five hundred now that much money to them.

967
00:45:07,928 --> 00:45:10,928
S2: Five hundred at fifty dollars to them is actually a

968
00:45:10,928 --> 00:45:12,968
S2: giant sum of money compared to what they make as

969
00:45:12,968 --> 00:45:13,538
S2: a percentage so they

970
00:45:13,538 --> 00:45:15,998
S1: could upgrade their club. They could do a whole bunch

971
00:45:15,998 --> 00:45:16,428
S1: of stuff, right?

972
00:45:16,448 --> 00:45:18,038
S2: They do all kinds of things, did it through the

973
00:45:18,038 --> 00:45:20,588
S2: marketing agency, drive people to clubs, but they could basically,

974
00:45:20,768 --> 00:45:22,778
S2: they would not have to go. And market is much

975
00:45:22,778 --> 00:45:25,628
S2: anymore because more people would own these VIP passes and

976
00:45:25,628 --> 00:45:28,808
S2: they would have way more money upfront. Hmm. Now is

977
00:45:28,808 --> 00:45:31,508
S2: there a problem in the long run with having a

978
00:45:31,508 --> 00:45:33,098
S2: bunch of people who show up to these clubs and

979
00:45:33,098 --> 00:45:35,948
S2: get them for free? No, it's their fundamental model anyway.

980
00:45:36,128 --> 00:45:38,168
S2: They already want people show up for free. This goes

981
00:45:38,168 --> 00:45:40,538
S2: back to our point number two of turning like owners

982
00:45:40,538 --> 00:45:42,368
S2: and mavens and try to get people to bring other people.

983
00:45:42,578 --> 00:45:45,338
S2: They're using that same kind of concept. This is magnifies

984
00:45:45,338 --> 00:45:48,208
S2: it and actually lowers their workload. They could do this NFT,

985
00:45:48,218 --> 00:45:49,688
S2: and they could not even do the rest of what

986
00:45:49,898 --> 00:45:51,878
S2: stuff to do. They could literally just sell EMT and

987
00:45:51,878 --> 00:45:53,948
S2: then say, You know what? We're done. The only thing

988
00:45:53,948 --> 00:45:55,208
S2: we do is we get two percent of the door.

989
00:45:55,448 --> 00:45:58,028
S2: You have a right to use our app at your door.

990
00:45:58,918 --> 00:46:00,178
S2: They go to a club and say, Hey, by the way,

991
00:46:00,178 --> 00:46:02,308
S2: we want 30 percent of the gate in exchange for

992
00:46:02,308 --> 00:46:04,638
S2: you using our app, so now let's face gambling.

993
00:46:04,678 --> 00:46:07,978
S1: This is crazy. So if somebody were to respond and

994
00:46:07,978 --> 00:46:10,858
S1: say you're going to lose out because people are just

995
00:46:10,858 --> 00:46:12,568
S1: going to be coming for free. That was the point

996
00:46:12,568 --> 00:46:13,348
S1: in the first place

997
00:46:13,348 --> 00:46:17,968
S2: was to get the. Right? Exactly. Yep, yeah, that's amazing, right?

998
00:46:18,088 --> 00:46:20,878
S2: They were already trying to turn people into recruitment for

999
00:46:20,878 --> 00:46:22,618
S2: other people, right? When I go to a party, I

1000
00:46:22,618 --> 00:46:25,918
S2: bring and I go to this club, I bring three friends. Yeah, right?

1001
00:46:26,188 --> 00:46:29,338
S2: It's the exact same model. And they just made it now.

1002
00:46:29,338 --> 00:46:31,138
S2: So it's easier to implement, right? So they're getting all

1003
00:46:31,138 --> 00:46:34,318
S2: kinds of utility here, actually gaining simplicity for business model

1004
00:46:34,318 --> 00:46:37,678
S2: like the actual business model that flows without as many humans. Again,

1005
00:46:37,678 --> 00:46:40,108
S2: a bunch of cattle up front and they have no problem.

1006
00:46:40,148 --> 00:46:42,688
S2: That's what they're doing. Now that simplicity means they can

1007
00:46:42,688 --> 00:46:45,238
S2: do this in Prague, and they can pick up their

1008
00:46:45,238 --> 00:46:48,538
S2: exact methodology and they can go to Paris and they

1009
00:46:48,538 --> 00:46:50,428
S2: can do the exact same thing. And how much effort

1010
00:46:50,428 --> 00:46:51,778
S2: is it going to go to this thing in Paris?

1011
00:46:51,778 --> 00:46:53,908
S2: They were going to in Prague when it's all based

1012
00:46:53,908 --> 00:46:57,508
S2: on selling out these, these adapters that give you VIP entrances.

1013
00:46:57,718 --> 00:47:00,028
S2: They walk into the clubs show what happened in Prague.

1014
00:47:00,268 --> 00:47:02,638
S2: Now it's really easy to replicate their business. So we

1015
00:47:02,638 --> 00:47:05,038
S2: take in business and made it easy to replicate through

1016
00:47:05,038 --> 00:47:08,818
S2: this technology innovation, giving them way more money. Now it's

1017
00:47:08,818 --> 00:47:10,918
S2: actually like right away, they'll have plenty of money to say,

1018
00:47:10,918 --> 00:47:14,038
S2: You know what? We're done here. Prague is running by itself.

1019
00:47:14,338 --> 00:47:16,528
S2: We're earning residuals on this. We're earning a percentage of gate.

1020
00:47:16,768 --> 00:47:18,428
S2: Let me go to Paris in.

1021
00:47:19,948 --> 00:47:26,168
S1: So, so the fundamental concepts of revenue generation initially combined

1022
00:47:26,168 --> 00:47:29,768
S1: with turning people into Melvins. These are kind of universal.

1023
00:47:29,798 --> 00:47:32,768
S1: I'm calling these like the ring line five or something.

1024
00:47:34,148 --> 00:47:36,158
S2: I think there's three that are better universal like for

1025
00:47:36,158 --> 00:47:37,028
S2: all crypto, right?

1026
00:47:37,028 --> 00:47:38,858
S1: Which is number three, also universal.

1027
00:47:41,578 --> 00:47:44,008
S2: It's not universal because it's an advantage that the crypto

1028
00:47:44,008 --> 00:47:46,378
S2: gaming companies have. So I don't know that it's universal.

1029
00:47:46,408 --> 00:47:48,718
S2: I mean, I don't know that bitcoin isn't over here. Like,

1030
00:47:48,988 --> 00:47:51,028
S2: are they being hyper responsive to community? I kind of

1031
00:47:51,028 --> 00:47:54,108
S2: doubt it because there is no bitcoin, right? There's so

1032
00:47:54,288 --> 00:47:55,868
S2: so I don't know. That number three is, is it

1033
00:47:55,918 --> 00:47:57,508
S2: true across all of Web3?

1034
00:47:57,538 --> 00:48:00,418
S1: OK, but a number of them are actually just true

1035
00:48:00,418 --> 00:48:02,968
S1: of like new ways of doing business, and they're just

1036
00:48:02,968 --> 00:48:04,138
S1: being spearheaded by gaming.

1037
00:48:05,098 --> 00:48:08,278
S2: Yeah, right. Spearheading has has more powerful like all these

1038
00:48:08,278 --> 00:48:10,768
S2: things multiply together, right? You take you take these five things,

1039
00:48:11,638 --> 00:48:14,848
S2: you know, they all multiply together. Gaming has these five

1040
00:48:14,848 --> 00:48:18,238
S2: powerful things multiplying together. That's why this is like since

1041
00:48:18,238 --> 00:48:20,998
S2: July of last year, one game has changed the whole

1042
00:48:20,998 --> 00:48:23,098
S2: gaming industry. And you could go and talk to any

1043
00:48:23,248 --> 00:48:25,348
S2: any game company and say, Hey, by the way, what

1044
00:48:25,348 --> 00:48:26,938
S2: are you doing for crypto? And what you're going to

1045
00:48:26,938 --> 00:48:30,508
S2: get is either pain, joy or fear because every single

1046
00:48:30,508 --> 00:48:32,788
S2: person is being dragged into conversations about crypto because they

1047
00:48:32,788 --> 00:48:34,948
S2: all have realized, Oh, wait a second, that the why

1048
00:48:34,948 --> 00:48:37,078
S2: has been proven the what the first y of like

1049
00:48:37,558 --> 00:48:40,318
S2: holy shit exchanges. All the money is enough, and now

1050
00:48:40,318 --> 00:48:43,318
S2: everyone's going to change. But a bunch of these same

1051
00:48:43,318 --> 00:48:45,568
S2: drivers are sure and all of you know, crypto, whether

1052
00:48:45,568 --> 00:48:48,778
S2: we talk about Disney Plus or, you know, ticketing or

1053
00:48:49,708 --> 00:48:51,868
S2: a lot of things, you're also crypto currency.

1054
00:48:52,918 --> 00:48:55,648
S1: Yeah, so that's what I love about this conversation is

1055
00:48:55,648 --> 00:48:58,708
S1: that I think what we figured out or I mean,

1056
00:48:58,708 --> 00:49:00,808
S1: I think you already knew and I already knew a

1057
00:49:00,808 --> 00:49:03,568
S1: little bit, but it became crystal clear in that conversation that.

1058
00:49:05,578 --> 00:49:07,648
S1: It's not about the tech, it's not about an NFT,

1059
00:49:07,678 --> 00:49:11,998
S1: it's not about a cryptocurrency. This is fundamentally changing how

1060
00:49:11,998 --> 00:49:15,838
S1: businesses operate, how they generate money, how they get people excited,

1061
00:49:16,708 --> 00:49:20,278
S1: super importantly, how content is created for them. It's really

1062
00:49:20,278 --> 00:49:23,008
S1: hard to have a content creation team. You can only

1063
00:49:23,008 --> 00:49:25,558
S1: make so much. But if you can get people excited

1064
00:49:25,558 --> 00:49:27,748
S1: and have them create their own stuff, which they have

1065
00:49:27,748 --> 00:49:32,188
S1: financial incentives to actually creating that sense of that sort

1066
00:49:32,188 --> 00:49:36,538
S1: of interlocking incentives work together to create something amazing that

1067
00:49:36,538 --> 00:49:39,508
S1: works for gaming. It also works other places. You had

1068
00:49:39,508 --> 00:49:42,118
S1: a dirt example do the dirty example.

1069
00:49:43,298 --> 00:49:45,548
S2: Yeah, so so after I got him the space, which

1070
00:49:45,548 --> 00:49:48,008
S2: you know, early on, you were very helpful with teaching

1071
00:49:48,008 --> 00:49:51,068
S2: me like technology and protocols and all that stuff. And

1072
00:49:51,068 --> 00:49:52,628
S2: then I went and to conferences. I talked to lots

1073
00:49:52,628 --> 00:49:54,848
S2: of people, and for me, I had a revelation when

1074
00:49:54,848 --> 00:49:56,378
S2: I was talking to a guy who had a whisky company.

1075
00:49:56,378 --> 00:49:59,068
S2: And I'm like, Why? The same thing is like, why? Like,

1076
00:49:59,228 --> 00:50:02,078
S2: what is the possible advantage of sticking an NFT barcode

1077
00:50:02,288 --> 00:50:06,188
S2: on a casket? Why does that matter? Like, like, I'm

1078
00:50:06,188 --> 00:50:08,408
S2: so skeptical of this. And after talking to Guy for

1079
00:50:08,408 --> 00:50:11,768
S2: an hour, I walk away going, Holy shit, that actually matters.

1080
00:50:12,068 --> 00:50:13,478
S2: This guy is actually able to do a bunch of

1081
00:50:13,478 --> 00:50:15,968
S2: things that that actually really do matter because he figured

1082
00:50:15,968 --> 00:50:18,158
S2: the model out. And so I started to challenge myself

1083
00:50:18,158 --> 00:50:20,768
S2: of saying the why in regards to anything. And like

1084
00:50:20,768 --> 00:50:23,618
S2: the why is there a way that you know that

1085
00:50:23,618 --> 00:50:27,338
S2: we can leverage blockchain and these crypto concepts on different things?

1086
00:50:28,028 --> 00:50:30,818
S2: So I'm at a I'm at Christmas dinner with my

1087
00:50:30,968 --> 00:50:33,278
S2: brother in law who always says, Oh yeah, you do

1088
00:50:33,278 --> 00:50:36,368
S2: things with computers. Those aren't real. I build houses. That's real. Like,

1089
00:50:36,368 --> 00:50:38,208
S2: that's kind of a shtick of the 80s. Feel funny.

1090
00:50:39,488 --> 00:50:40,838
S2: And so I say to him, like, Hey, listen, give

1091
00:50:40,838 --> 00:50:43,808
S2: me any problem that you have. And there might be,

1092
00:50:43,808 --> 00:50:45,128
S2: you know, I'm gonna try to find a way to

1093
00:50:45,128 --> 00:50:48,548
S2: solve that problem in the future using using blockchain. And

1094
00:50:48,548 --> 00:50:50,708
S2: he goes, My problem is dirt. I say, OK, this

1095
00:50:50,708 --> 00:50:53,208
S2: is perfect. This is the forest away from from technology.

1096
00:50:53,208 --> 00:50:55,238
S2: You can possibly give me your problem of dirt. And

1097
00:50:55,238 --> 00:50:57,458
S2: he's like, I have dirt that I need to get

1098
00:50:57,458 --> 00:51:00,608
S2: rid of. It's going to cost me $30000 to go

1099
00:51:00,608 --> 00:51:03,608
S2: and dump it into, you know, landfill or appropriate EPA

1100
00:51:03,608 --> 00:51:05,708
S2: approved place if I can get a golf course to

1101
00:51:05,708 --> 00:51:08,348
S2: take it. I'm calling golf courses every day, trying to

1102
00:51:08,348 --> 00:51:10,568
S2: get some golf courses. Take it because occasionally they'll take dirt.

1103
00:51:10,928 --> 00:51:12,698
S2: But I am always stuck with this problem of having

1104
00:51:12,698 --> 00:51:14,038
S2: to get rid of dirt. And then, you know what,

1105
00:51:14,048 --> 00:51:15,878
S2: in a couple of months, I'm actually going to buy

1106
00:51:15,878 --> 00:51:19,388
S2: dirt from somebody. It's super annoying that I both need

1107
00:51:19,388 --> 00:51:21,128
S2: to sell dirt and I need to buy dirt. And

1108
00:51:21,128 --> 00:51:22,408
S2: there are a lot of people at the same problem,

1109
00:51:22,418 --> 00:51:25,388
S2: but like, that's a real problem, like dirt under your fingernails.

1110
00:51:25,478 --> 00:51:26,868
S2: How are you going to solve that with, you know,

1111
00:51:26,888 --> 00:51:29,888
S2: digital ones and zeros? And I go, OK, let's let's

1112
00:51:29,888 --> 00:51:33,518
S2: try this out. So how many contractors are there who

1113
00:51:33,518 --> 00:51:35,318
S2: deal with dirt, who want to either buy or sell

1114
00:51:35,318 --> 00:51:38,148
S2: dirt in the in the Bay Area right now? And

1115
00:51:38,148 --> 00:51:41,558
S2: he's like, There's 10000. I'm like, OK, would you spend

1116
00:51:41,558 --> 00:51:44,768
S2: $5000 to have a pass that allows you to dispose

1117
00:51:44,768 --> 00:51:46,958
S2: of or pick up dirt? He said, For sure, I'm

1118
00:51:46,958 --> 00:51:48,848
S2: going to spend thirty right now to dispose of a

1119
00:51:48,848 --> 00:51:52,118
S2: bunch of dirt. Why wouldn't I spend $5000? I said, OK, great.

1120
00:51:52,268 --> 00:51:57,008
S2: Let's convert those 10000 people, uh, into. I mean, this

1121
00:51:57,008 --> 00:51:59,018
S2: is this assuming we can do some you have connections

1122
00:51:59,018 --> 00:52:00,188
S2: and that there's some way for us to get this started.

1123
00:52:00,188 --> 00:52:02,438
S2: But let's assume that's the case. We go out and

1124
00:52:02,438 --> 00:52:04,088
S2: we tell all these guys, Hey, by the way, you

1125
00:52:04,088 --> 00:52:07,898
S2: buy a $5000 pass to drop off and pick up dirt. Uh,

1126
00:52:09,038 --> 00:52:10,988
S2: it makes sense for all of them. They're all going

1127
00:52:10,988 --> 00:52:13,988
S2: to buy into this pass. Right now, you have five

1128
00:52:14,078 --> 00:52:18,188
S2: million dollars to create a center and Stanford center that

1129
00:52:18,188 --> 00:52:21,458
S2: will pick up, store and then distribute dirt. You've got

1130
00:52:21,458 --> 00:52:24,068
S2: plenty of money to actually process this like that's way

1131
00:52:24,068 --> 00:52:25,568
S2: more money than you're going to need to actually process

1132
00:52:25,568 --> 00:52:27,398
S2: all the dirt and allow people to come in and

1133
00:52:27,398 --> 00:52:30,448
S2: take it. And now all of you have this right,

1134
00:52:30,458 --> 00:52:32,678
S2: you're the owner. You're also going to be an advocate.

1135
00:52:32,678 --> 00:52:35,168
S2: So we only get five thousand people start with every

1136
00:52:35,168 --> 00:52:37,348
S2: one of your people who, you know, is like, I'm

1137
00:52:37,388 --> 00:52:39,228
S2: dropping off the dirt and my dirt center and they go, Wait,

1138
00:52:39,248 --> 00:52:41,108
S2: your dirt center? Yeah, I own part of the dirt

1139
00:52:41,108 --> 00:52:43,028
S2: center that I can drop off and pick up whatever.

1140
00:52:43,538 --> 00:52:46,148
S2: I want that right? So it will spread right. It

1141
00:52:46,148 --> 00:52:48,188
S2: has the capacity to spread from person to person to

1142
00:52:48,188 --> 00:52:51,488
S2: go sell out. Right now you've sold out and again

1143
00:52:51,488 --> 00:52:55,088
S2: you limited supply. This, uh, so there is 10000 passes.

1144
00:52:55,598 --> 00:52:58,928
S2: A new contractor moves in the Bay Area and he goes,

1145
00:52:58,928 --> 00:53:00,968
S2: Wait a second, you mean that I can get rid

1146
00:53:00,968 --> 00:53:03,128
S2: of and pick up dirt whenever I want. This is fantastic.

1147
00:53:03,788 --> 00:53:07,448
S2: How do I get in on that? You can't all

1148
00:53:07,448 --> 00:53:10,848
S2: the passes were sold. OK, I really want it on that.

1149
00:53:10,878 --> 00:53:14,358
S2: I've got three major projects coming up. Who has a pass?

1150
00:53:14,358 --> 00:53:17,238
S2: I can buy some else over here. I'm retiring next

1151
00:53:17,238 --> 00:53:18,888
S2: year and I don't think I'm doing any more stellar

1152
00:53:18,888 --> 00:53:20,658
S2: dig out. So you know what I will sell. You

1153
00:53:20,658 --> 00:53:25,408
S2: might pass for 40 grant. I'm going to be nice

1154
00:53:25,408 --> 00:53:27,598
S2: to you because you're a nice guy. Guy buys a

1155
00:53:27,598 --> 00:53:30,538
S2: pastor 40 grand, so somebody over here bought a pass

1156
00:53:30,538 --> 00:53:33,598
S2: for 5000 brands to pick up and drop off dirt, right?

1157
00:53:34,768 --> 00:53:36,568
S2: A couple of days later, someone who showed up needs

1158
00:53:36,568 --> 00:53:40,678
S2: a pass. They sold their pass. They pocketed the 35 grand. Right.

1159
00:53:40,768 --> 00:53:43,908
S2: So they benefited by the marketing adoption of this center.

1160
00:53:44,218 --> 00:53:47,968
S2: The dirt centre gets a five percent cut to maintain

1161
00:53:48,148 --> 00:53:52,228
S2: their staff and their infrastructure. That $40000 transaction pays money

1162
00:53:52,228 --> 00:53:54,298
S2: back to the drawing center to keep it right. Right?

1163
00:53:54,448 --> 00:53:56,488
S2: Who owns the dirt center? All the people who bought

1164
00:53:56,488 --> 00:53:59,218
S2: these in a piece, right? He transferred his ownership of

1165
00:53:59,218 --> 00:54:00,898
S2: his piece of the drug center to this new guy,

1166
00:54:01,018 --> 00:54:03,598
S2: paying money to the senator to keep it running, pocketing

1167
00:54:03,598 --> 00:54:06,118
S2: a bunch of money himself. All of those initial people

1168
00:54:06,118 --> 00:54:08,848
S2: who created a strip center now that they've actually made

1169
00:54:08,848 --> 00:54:12,208
S2: a bunch of money off of this dresser because all

1170
00:54:12,208 --> 00:54:14,098
S2: of the things that they possessed, they can let us see.

1171
00:54:14,098 --> 00:54:16,138
S2: You know what? I'm selling kid to college. I don't

1172
00:54:16,138 --> 00:54:18,118
S2: care about dirt any more. And they can sell their thing,

1173
00:54:18,118 --> 00:54:20,008
S2: and it's worth the money because the value has been

1174
00:54:20,008 --> 00:54:25,308
S2: proven out. So this allows for upfront fundraising to create

1175
00:54:25,308 --> 00:54:28,098
S2: the dirt, so it allows for distributed ownership, the center,

1176
00:54:28,098 --> 00:54:30,438
S2: all those people are involved. It allows for those people

1177
00:54:30,438 --> 00:54:33,408
S2: to become advocates of the center, allows them to share

1178
00:54:33,408 --> 00:54:35,928
S2: in the benefits and the rewards, right. In a way,

1179
00:54:35,928 --> 00:54:38,748
S2: this is like UGC for business, right? A guy created

1180
00:54:38,748 --> 00:54:42,018
S2: his own custom use case that, you know, is some

1181
00:54:42,018 --> 00:54:45,288
S2: investment company going to come and say, or some start company,

1182
00:54:45,288 --> 00:54:46,548
S2: I want to sell dirt. They're not going to do

1183
00:54:46,548 --> 00:54:50,388
S2: that right? But but we took the financial possibilities and

1184
00:54:50,388 --> 00:54:52,518
S2: we made them granular enough and flexible enough that they

1185
00:54:52,518 --> 00:54:55,938
S2: could apply to contractors and the infrastructure is easy to

1186
00:54:55,938 --> 00:54:59,238
S2: do that. I don't have to go through as many

1187
00:54:59,238 --> 00:55:02,388
S2: different legal proceedings to even transfer ownership. Again, all of

1188
00:55:02,388 --> 00:55:03,948
S2: this has made a lot easier when you're doing it

1189
00:55:03,948 --> 00:55:07,788
S2: on blockchain. And so the ease of simplicity, if we

1190
00:55:07,788 --> 00:55:11,598
S2: harken back to one of the really early examples of

1191
00:55:11,598 --> 00:55:14,538
S2: World of Warcraft versus Axie Infinity Warcraft, you can make

1192
00:55:14,538 --> 00:55:17,478
S2: more money in. But it's illegal. It's hard. Actually, infinity

1193
00:55:17,488 --> 00:55:20,358
S2: is it's legal and it's easy to change to making

1194
00:55:20,358 --> 00:55:24,588
S2: it easier does actually alter the adoption. So the fact

1195
00:55:24,588 --> 00:55:27,378
S2: that the blockchain ownership is shared much more easily and

1196
00:55:27,378 --> 00:55:30,798
S2: much more transferred does help enable. This does help make

1197
00:55:30,798 --> 00:55:33,918
S2: it possible. And that's a solution for dirt, which is,

1198
00:55:34,428 --> 00:55:36,378
S2: you know, like, is that going to happen tomorrow? Probably not.

1199
00:55:36,948 --> 00:55:40,128
S2: Is that going to happen three years from now? There's

1200
00:55:40,128 --> 00:55:40,608
S2: a good chance.

1201
00:55:41,268 --> 00:55:44,868
S1: Yeah, and there's a million problems that are just like problem. Right?

1202
00:55:45,078 --> 00:55:48,078
S2: Exactly. Yeah. One of the things that the podcast you

1203
00:55:48,078 --> 00:55:54,138
S2: referenced earlier mentioned was regulation and how it's very hard

1204
00:55:54,138 --> 00:55:55,968
S2: for the government to regulate things and keep on top

1205
00:55:55,968 --> 00:55:57,738
S2: of all of the various entities that are out there.

1206
00:55:58,548 --> 00:56:01,578
S2: It's a lot easier for users to self-regulate, and Uber

1207
00:56:01,578 --> 00:56:04,788
S2: and Yelp and Rotten Tomatoes are an early example of this.

1208
00:56:04,968 --> 00:56:07,728
S2: That isn't the full, fully able form, but they allow

1209
00:56:07,728 --> 00:56:11,118
S2: for peer to peer reviewing. If you're a bad driver,

1210
00:56:11,508 --> 00:56:13,458
S2: you get put out of business rankings. People give you

1211
00:56:13,458 --> 00:56:15,648
S2: bad reviews. If they get you big in your Uber,

1212
00:56:15,648 --> 00:56:18,378
S2: it smells and you're mean you can put out of business.

1213
00:56:18,618 --> 00:56:22,788
S2: They have decentralized. That relationship to different sides are both

1214
00:56:22,908 --> 00:56:26,328
S2: validating one another. Yeah, that kind of model is the

1215
00:56:26,328 --> 00:56:28,308
S2: model that we need to regulate all the things in

1216
00:56:28,308 --> 00:56:30,708
S2: the future. And that kind of model is made much

1217
00:56:30,708 --> 00:56:33,588
S2: easier through blockchain, right? Uber is still an example of

1218
00:56:33,588 --> 00:56:35,328
S2: that type of regulation, but it's still owned by Uber.

1219
00:56:36,828 --> 00:56:38,958
S2: But that model can be further improved by being blockchain,

1220
00:56:38,958 --> 00:56:40,758
S2: and then it can be applied to nearly everything. And

1221
00:56:40,758 --> 00:56:44,408
S2: so we'll have way less transactions that are better, not

1222
00:56:44,418 --> 00:56:45,888
S2: peer to peer regulated. We're going to get way more

1223
00:56:45,888 --> 00:56:48,918
S2: punitive regulation. That's again, the reason why Alleghenies does something

1224
00:56:48,918 --> 00:56:52,218
S2: to disrupt the community. Well, they're being regulated by their community.

1225
00:56:52,218 --> 00:56:54,768
S2: Their community has a voice, their concerns, boat and a

1226
00:56:54,768 --> 00:56:58,128
S2: lot of games and companies that are in the space

1227
00:56:58,518 --> 00:57:01,338
S2: are allowing for that kind of regulation. So the sandbox

1228
00:57:01,338 --> 00:57:03,768
S2: goes and has people vote on things before they're going

1229
00:57:03,768 --> 00:57:05,568
S2: to do a thing that changes the way their currency

1230
00:57:05,568 --> 00:57:08,358
S2: is deployed, structured, they go and they hold a vote

1231
00:57:08,598 --> 00:57:10,998
S2: and people who hold an ownership vote. And so they're

1232
00:57:10,998 --> 00:57:14,298
S2: decentralizing that regulation implicitly inside of their model.

1233
00:57:15,358 --> 00:57:18,178
S1: Interesting, so that's a very web Web3 sort of thing

1234
00:57:18,178 --> 00:57:24,228
S1: with ownership and voting, yeah, inside of an ecosystem. Awesome. Well,

1235
00:57:24,228 --> 00:57:27,198
S1: this is a this is fantastic. I think hopefully we've

1236
00:57:27,798 --> 00:57:31,608
S1: stitched together how this is a pretty big idea. I

1237
00:57:31,608 --> 00:57:33,588
S1: like I like your five tenants. I think they're really

1238
00:57:33,588 --> 00:57:36,288
S1: useful and I do agree with you. I think we

1239
00:57:36,288 --> 00:57:39,048
S1: could talk about this in the context of gaming, but

1240
00:57:39,378 --> 00:57:41,118
S1: it really is much bigger than that. It's just gaming

1241
00:57:41,118 --> 00:57:41,658
S1: is leading it.

1242
00:57:42,258 --> 00:57:46,128
S2: Yeah, yeah. And gaming is a will because gaming is

1243
00:57:46,128 --> 00:57:48,198
S2: bigger than all other forms of entertainment. It's going to

1244
00:57:48,198 --> 00:57:50,628
S2: lead the way and then everyone else will just follow suit.

1245
00:57:52,678 --> 00:57:55,558
S1: Now, consider what needs most people need a community, most

1246
00:57:55,558 --> 00:57:58,468
S1: people need to make money, and most people need marketing.

1247
00:57:59,458 --> 00:58:02,008
S1: But these are things that are just better done in

1248
00:58:02,008 --> 00:58:05,488
S1: this model, so yep, like we were saying, these are

1249
00:58:05,698 --> 00:58:09,118
S1: incentive models, not really technologies. They're kind of the same.

1250
00:58:09,118 --> 00:58:12,688
S2: But yeah, the tech, the technology has only been a

1251
00:58:12,688 --> 00:58:14,818
S2: small step forward. Like, that's the thing is, when people

1252
00:58:14,818 --> 00:58:17,458
S2: were first talking about, Hey, let's have decentralized trust for

1253
00:58:17,458 --> 00:58:22,138
S2: your trust, OK? Technologically, it doesn't matter at all. But actually, psychologically,

1254
00:58:22,138 --> 00:58:24,688
S2: it matters when you create that persistence. And so this

1255
00:58:24,688 --> 00:58:27,118
S2: this is not a like it's not technically that different

1256
00:58:27,298 --> 00:58:30,188
S2: to stick a NFT barcode on a whiskey cake and

1257
00:58:30,238 --> 00:58:31,798
S2: was like, What am I like? Listen, this is not

1258
00:58:31,798 --> 00:58:35,458
S2: technically that different. You're just changing the way ownership exists. Well,

1259
00:58:35,608 --> 00:58:37,048
S2: when you when you do a bunch of these small,

1260
00:58:37,048 --> 00:58:39,928
S2: subtle changes and you involve people in the ownership and

1261
00:58:39,928 --> 00:58:41,668
S2: you make things easier and you make things easier to

1262
00:58:41,668 --> 00:58:43,708
S2: vote and you make them persistent and you start to

1263
00:58:43,708 --> 00:58:47,548
S2: do all these little tweaks, suddenly it actually has powerful psychological.

1264
00:58:47,878 --> 00:58:50,658
S1: They're feeding off each other. They're having to each other. Yeah, right?

1265
00:58:51,448 --> 00:58:53,358
S1: And here's what I think a lot of people don't realize,

1266
00:58:53,358 --> 00:58:56,068
S1: just like NFT or whatever, there's lots of rug pulls

1267
00:58:56,578 --> 00:59:00,418
S1: like crypto could fill. Bitcoin could fill. Ethereum could fail.

1268
00:59:00,988 --> 00:59:04,948
S1: Even blockchain could fail. But these ideas that you've talked about,

1269
00:59:05,338 --> 00:59:08,038
S1: which are enabled by those technologies, they will resurface.

1270
00:59:08,608 --> 00:59:10,498
S2: Yeah. These ideas are not going.

1271
00:59:10,738 --> 00:59:13,768
S1: Yeah. Even if this stuff actually, you know, crashed, it

1272
00:59:13,768 --> 00:59:16,108
S1: would rise from the ashes in a different form. Maybe

1273
00:59:16,108 --> 00:59:18,208
S1: it would be a different blockchain. Or maybe it would

1274
00:59:18,208 --> 00:59:19,678
S1: not even be a blockchain, but it would have the

1275
00:59:19,678 --> 00:59:20,308
S1: same features.

1276
00:59:20,998 --> 00:59:22,738
S2: Yeah, right, exactly. I mean, there also might be an

1277
00:59:22,738 --> 00:59:26,578
S2: evolution on the speed at which technology and ideas are evolving.

1278
00:59:26,758 --> 00:59:29,158
S2: It is possible this thing doesn't get to its full

1279
00:59:29,158 --> 00:59:32,608
S2: maturity before it gets replaced by something even superior inspired

1280
00:59:32,608 --> 00:59:36,838
S2: by it. Yeah, that's possible. I actually think that's almost

1281
00:59:36,838 --> 00:59:38,338
S2: the most likely thing to happen. Is this the speed

1282
00:59:38,338 --> 00:59:40,348
S2: of innovation at will so quick that if someone were

1283
00:59:40,348 --> 00:59:42,028
S2: born and innovate, a couple of things that again are

1284
00:59:42,028 --> 00:59:43,828
S2: going to help multiply these advantages?

1285
00:59:44,488 --> 00:59:47,548
S1: Yeah, but I think certain certain components are so fundamental

1286
00:59:47,548 --> 00:59:51,328
S1: that you can't go too much further. I mean, ultimately,

1287
00:59:51,328 --> 00:59:55,918
S1: you have you have companies, you have people, you have marketing,

1288
00:59:56,218 --> 00:59:59,998
S1: you have the raising of money and you have profit

1289
00:59:59,998 --> 01:00:02,968
S1: and you have ownership. You the certain things are are

1290
01:00:03,058 --> 01:00:05,908
S1: kind of static. The question is like, how good is

1291
01:00:05,908 --> 01:00:08,938
S1: the technology at magnifying those things?

1292
01:00:09,808 --> 01:00:13,348
S2: You know, I have what my colleagues recently calling me like, Hey, listen,

1293
01:00:13,348 --> 01:00:14,608
S2: you know that if you give people a piece of

1294
01:00:14,608 --> 01:00:18,898
S2: candy before you try to sell them something, they are

1295
01:00:19,168 --> 01:00:22,908
S2: four times more likely to buy from. That's that's the

1296
01:00:22,908 --> 01:00:25,218
S2: same idea, what you just change a little bit of

1297
01:00:25,678 --> 01:00:28,908
S2: the psychology of involvement in some way. It just changes

1298
01:00:28,908 --> 01:00:31,638
S2: things materially, so those things won't be different. Those are

1299
01:00:31,638 --> 01:00:33,258
S2: human drivers that, you know, we're going to change our

1300
01:00:33,258 --> 01:00:37,138
S2: nature overnight. And it's all about, you know, finding the

1301
01:00:37,138 --> 01:00:41,128
S2: right ways to leverage that that can help grow the

1302
01:00:41,128 --> 01:00:43,048
S2: most correct kind of business, like I actually think that

1303
01:00:43,288 --> 01:00:46,618
S2: these businesses are better models for the future. We're not

1304
01:00:46,618 --> 01:00:49,318
S2: going to be, you know, people who dislike Facebook being

1305
01:00:49,318 --> 01:00:51,958
S2: the man we yeah, it's actually going to be really

1306
01:00:51,958 --> 01:00:53,458
S2: hard in this model for there be a Facebook in

1307
01:00:53,458 --> 01:00:56,398
S2: the future. Yeah. The Sandbox and Cal games are not

1308
01:00:56,398 --> 01:00:58,678
S2: going to that. They're very different. They're giving out most

1309
01:00:58,678 --> 01:01:00,598
S2: of the value of the users. It's mostly UGC. They're

1310
01:01:00,598 --> 01:01:03,478
S2: super committee directed. It's decentralized. You can pick up and

1311
01:01:03,478 --> 01:01:06,358
S2: walk away. So when, when, when this next metaverse and

1312
01:01:06,358 --> 01:01:09,388
S2: this next level of all these products is built, it's

1313
01:01:09,388 --> 01:01:12,538
S2: not around these sort of giant corporations that have all

1314
01:01:12,538 --> 01:01:12,898
S2: the power.

1315
01:01:16,388 --> 01:01:18,728
S1: So, I mean, is that a way to summarize, I mean,

1316
01:01:18,878 --> 01:01:22,808
S1: this is a sentiment incentives that works more for the

1317
01:01:22,808 --> 01:01:24,818
S1: user than for the big corp.

1318
01:01:25,688 --> 01:01:29,288
S2: Yeah. That's a really good way to describe it. This, actually,

1319
01:01:29,288 --> 01:01:31,478
S2: because this is all these are all benefits for users.

1320
01:01:31,928 --> 01:01:34,208
S2: And a lot of people don't realize that there was

1321
01:01:34,778 --> 01:01:37,928
S2: a magic influencer who was, you know, playing magic recently

1322
01:01:37,928 --> 01:01:39,578
S2: went on a big grant of like, Hey, I want

1323
01:01:39,578 --> 01:01:41,888
S2: to oh, my magic cards for my digital game. Like,

1324
01:01:41,888 --> 01:01:43,988
S2: why can't I hold my magic but not own a piece?

1325
01:01:44,678 --> 01:01:47,048
S2: Because the stigma out of NAFTA made him not want

1326
01:01:47,138 --> 01:01:48,668
S2: to be an MP. But what he wanted was he

1327
01:01:48,668 --> 01:01:51,068
S2: wanted the old school world of only ration cards. Yes.

1328
01:01:51,428 --> 01:01:53,228
S2: Once magic gets off their ass and allows you to

1329
01:01:53,228 --> 01:01:56,558
S2: honor magic cards, they basically will be doing crypto gaming

1330
01:01:56,798 --> 01:01:58,808
S2: and it is a superior model. That is what made

1331
01:01:58,808 --> 01:02:01,088
S2: magic huge to begin with, because that model was more

1332
01:02:01,088 --> 01:02:04,088
S2: present in physical, tangible things. Digital is an easier way

1333
01:02:04,088 --> 01:02:07,028
S2: to reach more people. But once you combine those two models,

1334
01:02:07,028 --> 01:02:09,038
S2: it's going to be way more effective. So the second

1335
01:02:09,038 --> 01:02:11,318
S2: magic and another company come out and show how much

1336
01:02:11,318 --> 01:02:13,778
S2: better it is. Everyone can follow suit. People are going

1337
01:02:13,778 --> 01:02:15,638
S2: to own their own magic cards and the guy over

1338
01:02:15,638 --> 01:02:18,128
S2: here saying, why, why? Why are you try to steal

1339
01:02:18,128 --> 01:02:21,818
S2: my money by selling NFT? No, no. We're trying to

1340
01:02:21,818 --> 01:02:24,158
S2: give back to you, right? We're gonna make it so

1341
01:02:24,158 --> 01:02:26,108
S2: you can own this thing. I want to go live

1342
01:02:26,108 --> 01:02:27,518
S2: in a regular world. I want to play in a

1343
01:02:27,518 --> 01:02:29,758
S2: game where I can earn money, right? I want to.

1344
01:02:29,758 --> 01:02:32,138
S2: I want to have the things that I'm doing. Relate

1345
01:02:32,138 --> 01:02:35,348
S2: back to my own financial prosperity. Like, that's better.

1346
01:02:35,648 --> 01:02:38,228
S1: Yeah. And the companies don't get screwed either, because they

1347
01:02:38,228 --> 01:02:41,108
S1: can get all these residual fees when when things are

1348
01:02:41,108 --> 01:02:44,228
S1: being transferred around, if they don't remember. Exactly. So the

1349
01:02:44,228 --> 01:02:46,808
S1: users get most of it, but they still get rich,

1350
01:02:47,258 --> 01:02:50,528
S1: like in a peripheral way. Accidentally, they get rich.

1351
01:02:51,218 --> 01:02:53,198
S2: Yeah, I've had someone say to me like, Well, it's

1352
01:02:53,198 --> 01:02:54,788
S2: all about how much money there is. There's only so

1353
01:02:54,788 --> 01:02:58,388
S2: much money like so that's not really true. When you

1354
01:02:58,388 --> 01:03:00,008
S2: when you think about we go back to the first

1355
01:03:00,008 --> 01:03:03,938
S2: change from the pay to play to free to play right. OK,

1356
01:03:03,938 --> 01:03:08,078
S2: free to play games, make more money. In theory, some

1357
01:03:08,078 --> 01:03:10,868
S2: of them do other them make less money. We have

1358
01:03:10,868 --> 01:03:14,018
S2: moved the money to be in a more appropriate place. Right.

1359
01:03:15,488 --> 01:03:17,858
S2: So the money where it is being changed and that

1360
01:03:17,978 --> 01:03:21,398
S2: that is being realized. So there's the same amount of money.

1361
01:03:21,968 --> 01:03:25,268
S2: But now the things that are good rise. The top

1362
01:03:25,268 --> 01:03:27,548
S2: free to play allows more for the things that are

1363
01:03:27,548 --> 01:03:29,918
S2: good to rise to the top. This does that even

1364
01:03:29,918 --> 01:03:32,468
S2: more so. So that new good things can come out

1365
01:03:32,648 --> 01:03:34,238
S2: and in a blink of an eye, they'll be all

1366
01:03:34,238 --> 01:03:34,718
S2: over the place.

1367
01:03:35,168 --> 01:03:37,418
S1: Yeah, I mean, that's that's one way to think about

1368
01:03:37,418 --> 01:03:41,898
S1: this is it's a giant engine for content creation. Yeah.

1369
01:03:41,948 --> 01:03:45,598
S1: I mean. It's only one of your items, but I

1370
01:03:45,598 --> 01:03:47,488
S1: feel like a lot of things are feeding into that

1371
01:03:47,728 --> 01:03:50,668
S1: because the content creates the communities around it, which creates

1372
01:03:50,668 --> 01:03:53,728
S1: the money which creates the hype which creates the Melvins

1373
01:03:54,328 --> 01:03:56,518
S1: and the more and more content you have. It's just

1374
01:03:56,938 --> 01:03:59,488
S1: the whole ecosystem gets super rich. People are excited. They

1375
01:03:59,488 --> 01:04:02,638
S1: want to play different universes. And to your point, that's

1376
01:04:02,638 --> 01:04:05,188
S1: not zero sum money that is more and more money

1377
01:04:05,218 --> 01:04:08,518
S1: around more and more content. So the better you incentivize

1378
01:04:08,518 --> 01:04:10,618
S1: the content, the more money there is.

1379
01:04:11,748 --> 01:04:13,818
S2: Yeah, if we talk about, like, really far future and

1380
01:04:13,818 --> 01:04:15,828
S2: in my case, I'm talking about super, far future, let's say,

1381
01:04:15,828 --> 01:04:18,888
S2: five years, right? I don't know that we're going to

1382
01:04:18,888 --> 01:04:21,138
S2: see the same kind of thing like a tick tock

1383
01:04:21,138 --> 01:04:24,348
S2: or a YouTube or Facebook come and take over full

1384
01:04:24,348 --> 01:04:27,288
S2: segments that and these companies being sort of like owned

1385
01:04:27,288 --> 01:04:31,038
S2: and backed by major corporate powers. Instead, what's going to

1386
01:04:31,038 --> 01:04:35,208
S2: happen is The Hunger Games not right? The Hunger Games

1387
01:04:35,208 --> 01:04:39,288
S2: board was a better version of a type of battle

1388
01:04:39,288 --> 01:04:43,248
S2: inside of Minecraft. That kind of thing is more innovative.

1389
01:04:43,428 --> 01:04:45,258
S2: And so we're going to have more things that come

1390
01:04:45,258 --> 01:04:48,738
S2: from just random communities because the past is to being

1391
01:04:48,738 --> 01:04:51,408
S2: successful in bigger way, more so now we're we're allowing

1392
01:04:51,438 --> 01:04:53,868
S2: that spark of innovation, the idea that innovation is kind

1393
01:04:53,868 --> 01:04:57,378
S2: of like you need the right level of opportunities and

1394
01:04:57,378 --> 01:04:59,718
S2: the right combination of ideas and then something something.

1395
01:05:00,048 --> 01:05:01,038
S1: It's an evolution play

1396
01:05:01,338 --> 01:05:04,428
S2: and evolution play. Now we're we're multiplying the speed of evolution.

1397
01:05:04,698 --> 01:05:06,128
S2: And so but it's not a small world where we're

1398
01:05:06,158 --> 01:05:08,688
S2: talking about we're doubling the speed of evolution we're talking about.

1399
01:05:08,718 --> 01:05:11,418
S2: We're going 100 x the speed of evolution. And that

1400
01:05:11,748 --> 01:05:14,598
S2: speed evolution means that some big person who comes by

1401
01:05:14,598 --> 01:05:15,498
S2: and said, Hey, by the way, I want to make

1402
01:05:15,508 --> 01:05:17,688
S2: a tick. I want to recreate YouTube. I want to

1403
01:05:17,868 --> 01:05:19,998
S2: I want compete with Facebook for, you know, social media

1404
01:05:19,998 --> 01:05:23,598
S2: platform like that. Large lumbering play isn't going to be

1405
01:05:23,598 --> 01:05:27,348
S2: the point at which it's going to be three guys

1406
01:05:27,348 --> 01:05:29,958
S2: who got together, who were drunk while playing some music,

1407
01:05:29,988 --> 01:05:32,118
S2: and they figured out a thing that was kind of funny.

1408
01:05:32,118 --> 01:05:34,848
S2: That was more interesting. They deployed it. They suddenly got

1409
01:05:34,848 --> 01:05:36,888
S2: a bunch of money on it. It suddenly works way better.

1410
01:05:36,888 --> 01:05:39,468
S2: Nobody loves this thing. Now, this thing is a new

1411
01:05:39,888 --> 01:05:42,138
S2: super hot thing, and it came from nowhere.

1412
01:05:44,448 --> 01:05:47,078
S1: All right. Well, this is a this has been fantastic,

1413
01:05:47,088 --> 01:05:50,328
S1: let's continue doing these conversations, maybe the other one's going

1414
01:05:50,328 --> 01:05:53,298
S1: to be shorter, but I really enjoyed having you and

1415
01:05:53,448 --> 01:05:55,098
S1: talk to you again soon. Hey, my pleasure.