WEBVTT - UL NO. 438: Confusion is a Muse

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<v S1>Whether you're starting or scaling your company's security program, demonstrating

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<v S1>go to Vanta comm slash unsupervised. That's vanta.com/supervised for $1,000 off.

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<v S1>Welcome to Unsupervised Learning, a security, AI and meaning focused

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<v S1>podcast that looks at how best to thrive as humans

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<v S1>in a post AI world. It combines original ideas, analysis,

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<v S1>and mental models to bring not just the news, but

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<v S1>why it matters and how to respond. All right. Welcome

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<v S1>to episode 438. This is Daniel Miessler. Okay. What do

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<v S1>we have here? So registration for augmented v2. July 26th

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<v S1>is now open. About half the slots are about gone.

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<v S1>So sign up by clicking down below in the newsletter.

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<v S1>Or you can just go to augmented dot Unsupervised learning.com

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<v S1>and sign up. And, uh, if you become a UL member,

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<v S1>you actually get $250 off. So inside of the chat,

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<v S1>you can get the discount code, which is $250 off,

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<v S1>and becoming a member is only $99 for the first year. So.

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<v S1>You could do the math there. Let's see here. Fabric

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<v S1>now supports Anthropic's sonnet 3.5, which is really, really good.

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<v S1>So if you update and then you do fabric list models,

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<v S1>it will show you that, uh, cloth 3.5 is in there.

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<v S1>And this is the actual tag for it. Claude dash three,

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<v S1>dash five. Sonnet dash 20240620. Uh, one thing to note, though,

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<v S1>is sonnet and haiku. They throw a lot of copyright

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<v S1>failures like it won't actually read podcast transcripts, which is

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<v S1>super annoying because it's one of my favorite things to

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<v S1>do is put long form conversations through these things and

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<v S1>like pull out like lists of references that they mentioned

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<v S1>if I want to order the books or whatever. So

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<v S1>that's kind of annoying that it doesn't allow me to

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<v S1>do that with one of the lower models. Opus does

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<v S1>allow me to do that, and GPT four does allow

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<v S1>me to do that, but I can't do it in

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<v S1>sonnet or haiku. So I'm really waiting for them to

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<v S1>either fix that with the lower models or to give

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<v S1>me opus 3.5. I cannot wait to use that. Definitely

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<v S1>gearing up for Vegas black Hat Defcon. Hope to see

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<v S1>you there! I'm going to have stickers, but, uh, don't

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<v S1>really have anything else other than stickers. Might eventually do

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<v S1>a t shirt or something with like a superhero logo

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<v S1>of just, uh, the UL logo, but no text or anything.

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<v S1>So I've been feeling quite grateful for my life lately

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<v S1>and somehow, like, super powered. Not really, because, uh, things

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<v S1>are going well, which, uh, they're definitely going pretty well

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<v S1>in terms of, like, the business and everything like that, but.

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<v S1>It's more so that I feel like I'm living an

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<v S1>authentic life. I feel like the stuff that I'm doing

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<v S1>is all oriented in the direction, and I'm working on

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<v S1>a like a essays and a course around this and

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<v S1>stuff like that, but it's essentially like, do you know

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<v S1>what you're trying to accomplish? And are you heading in

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<v S1>that direction? And what I've been trying to do is like,

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<v S1>hack together these systems where I say no to things

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<v S1>that are not in the direction of these goals. And

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<v S1>one thing that came up in a conversation with my

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<v S1>buddy recently is, um, the cool thing about this. Oh,

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<v S1>and I also got this from a David Perell analysis

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<v S1>of a bunch of Seinfeld stuff. It's like fail at

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<v S1>things that you wanted to do anyway. And it really

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<v S1>doesn't feel like failure, right? Because I'm doing a lot

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<v S1>of different stuff. Maybe too much sometimes, sometimes not enough.

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<v S1>But in general, I'm doing lots of different things. And

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<v S1>the question is, how many do you say no to?

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<v S1>And what is your criteria for saying yes or no?

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<v S1>And what I've come to basically figure out is that

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<v S1>if you look at that Seinfeld thing, he basically said,

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<v S1>fail doing it, doing what you want the way that

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<v S1>you want. And this really resonated with me, because I

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<v S1>think about people who are kind of chasing other people.

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<v S1>They're chasing like a high school bully, or they're chasing

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<v S1>like their boss or whatever, some, some competitor for some reason,

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<v S1>and they're chasing them, and they might actually not be

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<v S1>thinking about what really drives them, what purpose they are chasing,

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<v S1>the thing that they actually want to do deeply. That's

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<v S1>part of their own personal identity. Instead, they might be going, well,

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<v S1>the thing I'm doing isn't working. The thing they're doing

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<v S1>is working, so I'm going to copy them. Or if

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<v S1>someone gives them advice and they're like, hey! You know,

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<v S1>this thing that I'm doing works really, really well. You

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<v S1>should do that. And one thing that comes to mind

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<v S1>around this is Alex Hormozi. He is, like, obsessed with

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<v S1>making money. Him and his wife are obsessed with making money,

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<v S1>which I respect. They're also way younger than me. So

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<v S1>they're like in their late 20s, early 30s. Or maybe

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<v S1>he's like mid 30s or whatever, but he wants to

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<v S1>crush business. And guess what? He is crushing business. So

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<v S1>what I'm going to do is take some of that

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<v S1>DNA from crushing business and try to sprinkle it into

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<v S1>my stuff. But what I won't be doing is making

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<v S1>the mistake of trying to be Alex Hormozi and switching

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<v S1>my focus and my telescope to point towards this distant

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<v S1>thing of like, oh, I want to make $100 million,

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<v S1>and he doesn't want to make $100 million. He wants

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<v S1>to be a billionaire. I guarantee you that's his goal

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<v S1>is like $1 billion in revenue or wealth or something.

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<v S1>So the thing is, you have to know what direction

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<v S1>your stuff is pointing in, and then you can more

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<v S1>easily say no to things because are they going to

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<v S1>get you there sort of accidentally? And that's the way

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<v S1>I've sort of oriented things, is like, I want to

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<v S1>do things so that I can accidentally make money from them,

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<v S1>like do stuff that you would do anyway and hook

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<v S1>it up to a stripe page and hope it works out.

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<v S1>And I know that's not the way to make a

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<v S1>lot of money. And I know you should, like, go

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<v S1>all in on a thing that's like, got a giant

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<v S1>market and, you know, you spam the hell out of

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<v S1>the ads or whatever, and you just try to make

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<v S1>all your money from that. But I feel like it's

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<v S1>just I feel like it's a bad game. And another

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<v S1>one of my favorite things, which I've mentioned here before,

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<v S1>is like, the worst way to lose is to win

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<v S1>playing the wrong game. And so this is all sort

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<v S1>of like flowing into that same thing. And I've been

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<v S1>happy with the newsletter lately because I've just been more

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<v S1>of my authentic self, and I feel like that's something

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<v S1>I just want for everybody. I want everyone to be

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<v S1>in tune with who they are and what they want,

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<v S1>and have them actually chasing those things and talking about

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<v S1>those things, talking about it is super important. It's like

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<v S1>I'm really worried about people becoming invisible after AI, because

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<v S1>AI is going to be finding the coolest stuff and

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<v S1>the best stuff. Well, if you're not saying anything, AI

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<v S1>is not going to find you. And also, if you're

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<v S1>not saying anything, you might not be thinking the things enough,

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<v S1>or you might not be in practice enough with coming

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<v S1>up with the ideas, crystallizing them, and writing them down.

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<v S1>Because I'm not advocating that people try to become successful authors,

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<v S1>or they try to become successful streamers or YouTubers or

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<v S1>anything like that for the purpose of being successful. I'm

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<v S1>advocating that they do it because it will make them

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<v S1>feel good to know themselves and to articulate themselves and

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<v S1>to emote themselves. And that's why I'm obsessed with this

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<v S1>whole thing. That's why I'm obsessed with this human 3.0

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<v S1>and all the stuff that I'm talking about. So anyway,

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<v S1>I hope you've noticed the difference in terms of me.

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<v S1>But really, the thing I'm trying to do, the whole

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<v S1>purpose of doing this for myself is to like, battle

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<v S1>test it so I can help other people do it.

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<v S1>All right. Stream of consciousness, collection of thoughts on US politics.

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<v S1>Just skip it if you don't like politics. But I

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<v S1>basically lay down a whole bunch of stuff there. Oh,

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<v S1>this is just become a member. Yeah, yeah, become a

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<v S1>member if you can. I would appreciate it. All right.

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<v S1>CSA held its first. This is, uh, security stuff here

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<v S1>or it's the new stories section. But, yeah, I always

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<v S1>start with security. CIA held its first AI security tabletop exercise,

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<v S1>over 50 experts, and they're looking to simulate responses to

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<v S1>AI security incidents. I love that they're thinking about it.

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<v S1>Extremists in the US are using AI to spread hate speech,

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<v S1>recruit and radicalize faster than ever. And they got a

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<v S1>couple of examples here. President Biden using using racial slurs

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<v S1>and Emma Watson reading Mein Kampf. I kind of want

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<v S1>to go watch these, but I also don't want to

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<v S1>Google for them. So yeah, I do not need that

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<v S1>garbage in my YouTube feed. The US has banned the

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<v S1>sale of Kaspersky anti-virus software, citing security risks from Russia.

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<v S1>And they're basically using strong language here. They're like, do

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<v S1>not use this stuff, stop using it immediately, get off

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<v S1>of it. And I think they have a deadline in July,

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<v S1>and there's a new set of high security vulnerabilities in Asus.

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<v S1>Routers let you get complete control without any user interaction.

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<v S1>And you want to patch these immediately. And the Richter

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<v S1>scale is 9.8. Thank you to dropzone for sponsoring Dmitri Alperovitch. Yeah.

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<v S1>Dmitri Alperovitch why is that difficult? That's not difficult. Imagined

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<v S1>a detailed scenario of China invading Taiwan in 2028, focusing

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<v S1>on aerosol strategy through the rough Taiwan Strait waters. This

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<v S1>one is fascinating to me because I don't have strong

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<v S1>intuitions myself, I. I don't have strong expertise myself in

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<v S1>like this whole naval warfare island attack type situation. It's

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<v S1>just a it's not something I've ever studied. I don't

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<v S1>know the stuff, but what's really fascinating to me is

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<v S1>that the super, super experts on this, they disagree with

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<v S1>each other, which reminds me a lot of the AI

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<v S1>situation there. I do have strong intuitions and some expertise

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<v S1>and a lot of expertise in some areas, and some

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<v S1>expertise in others, but it's like I feel way more

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<v S1>grounded and solid and confident in at least my intuitions

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<v S1>on the AI side. But here I have no idea

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<v S1>what's going on. And in both cases, the absolute best people,

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<v S1>which we're supposed to be looking up to, they do

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<v S1>not agree with each other and they disagree massively with

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<v S1>each other. Tyler Cowen had someone, this woman from she

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<v S1>was Bulgarian on his podcast recently, and it was so

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<v S1>good and her view was completely different than so many

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<v S1>other people. So I'm watching like Peter Zeihan. I'm listening

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<v S1>to her. I'm listening to the Goodfellas, which is a

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<v S1>podcast of a bunch of security and like really smart people.

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<v S1>And I'm trying to triangulate between all these different people

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<v S1>and basically come up with my own thoughts and opinions

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<v S1>based on, you know, not being an expert on it.

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<v S1>I just I find it so interesting that they can't agree. Oh,

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<v S1>same with, um, same with Ukraine. Right. Vastly different predictions

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<v S1>on whether or not it was going to happen in

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<v S1>the first place, when it's going to end, vastly different predictions.

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<v S1>And that excites me that that massively excites me because

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<v S1>I'm like, there is signal in here somewhere. The question is,

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<v S1>is it available second? Are people not getting the signal

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<v S1>or are they misinterpreting it? How are the best experts wrong?

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<v S1>And it raises the question of like, what else are

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<v S1>the best experts wrong on? And I just like to

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<v S1>have that constant tension and questioning in my mind as

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<v S1>I think about everything, including the things that I. I

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<v S1>believe the strongest US is moving to limit investments in

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<v S1>China's AI, semiconductor and quantum computing sectors to curb China's

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<v S1>tech advancements. And now they're looking at private equity venture

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<v S1>capital funds. Great stuff. And then I say, yeah, cool.

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<v S1>But we need to be building a lot more energy production.

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<v S1>Look at this. Look at this graphic from Leopold. This

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<v S1>is from situational awareness, which I just printed out, by

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<v S1>the way. It's like, I don't know, two inches thick

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<v S1>front and back. It's it's a beast. And I'm just

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<v S1>going to keep it in my car and read it. Uh,

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<v S1>whenever I'm parked and whatever, listening to podcasts. I won't

0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:22.280
<v S1>do them both at the same time. But anyway, I'm

0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.320
<v S1>going to keep it in the car and read through it.

0:13:24.320 --> 0:13:26.630
<v S1>I've already read a whole bunch online and of course,

0:13:26.630 --> 0:13:32.900
<v S1>watch the video, but. Yeah. All right. National. Yeah. Nationwide

0:13:32.900 --> 0:13:36.260
<v S1>armed militia from this guy named Jake Lang, who is

0:13:36.260 --> 0:13:41.420
<v S1>a January 6th writer. And they're using telegram for coordination.

0:13:41.750 --> 0:13:45.199
<v S1>And this is a wired article study says staring directly

0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.069
<v S1>at the camera during online job interviews can significantly boost

0:13:49.070 --> 0:13:53.990
<v S1>your evaluation scores. And this is from University of Hiroshima

0:13:54.020 --> 0:13:57.830
<v S1>AI agents and the Raz Revolution results as a service

0:13:57.830 --> 0:14:03.470
<v S1>discussing the evolution from SAS to raz, emphasizing the role

0:14:03.470 --> 0:14:08.059
<v S1>of AI agents. Yeah, I like this a lot. It's

0:14:08.059 --> 0:14:10.609
<v S1>like abstract. This is exactly what I'm building with a

0:14:10.610 --> 0:14:12.829
<v S1>project called substrate, which you're going to hear a lot

0:14:12.830 --> 0:14:17.390
<v S1>about here before too long. But this is exactly what

0:14:17.390 --> 0:14:22.010
<v S1>I'm building. You make a query and agents and a

0:14:22.010 --> 0:14:24.860
<v S1>whole bunch of data work together in a whole bunch

0:14:24.860 --> 0:14:28.070
<v S1>of steps, and the output that you get is the

0:14:28.070 --> 0:14:32.870
<v S1>result of their work. So if you imagine one idea

0:14:32.870 --> 0:14:35.870
<v S1>I have here, which is super exciting, is I'm going

0:14:35.870 --> 0:14:39.890
<v S1>to build intelligence reports this way. So on one hand,

0:14:39.890 --> 0:14:43.880
<v S1>you've got a whole bunch of sources that are maybe

0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:47.300
<v S1>they're hard to find, maybe they're not, but there are

0:14:47.300 --> 0:14:50.270
<v S1>many of them. And it takes some effort and curation

0:14:50.270 --> 0:14:53.930
<v S1>ability to to pick the best ones. Right. You bring

0:14:53.930 --> 0:14:57.380
<v S1>that together, you turn that into a giant summary or

0:14:57.380 --> 0:15:01.370
<v S1>a giant context file, and you basically start producing intelligence

0:15:01.370 --> 0:15:04.400
<v S1>artifacts out of this thing. And that's what I like

0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.990
<v S1>about results as a service. Okay. You you ask the question,

0:15:08.990 --> 0:15:12.260
<v S1>what is going on in Ukraine? What are the latest

0:15:12.260 --> 0:15:15.470
<v S1>global trends? Where should I invest my money or whatever?

0:15:15.470 --> 0:15:20.000
<v S1>And there could be hundreds of operations that happen, multiple

0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.840
<v S1>different eyes doing multiple different things. But really, it's not

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.840
<v S1>even so much the AI until the end where it's

0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:29.720
<v S1>like putting it together and telling the story. It starts

0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:32.540
<v S1>with more legacy tech. It starts with all this collection,

0:15:32.540 --> 0:15:38.090
<v S1>all this correlation and unification of this data and getting

0:15:38.090 --> 0:15:41.000
<v S1>it into a thing that's ready for the for the

0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:46.610
<v S1>actual AI. And having brushed up against intelligence a little

0:15:46.610 --> 0:15:49.100
<v S1>bit when I was in the Army, I was attached

0:15:49.100 --> 0:15:52.400
<v S1>to an intelligence group and got to see a little

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.160
<v S1>bit of how things work. Very little. I don't want

0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:58.400
<v S1>to oversell it here, but I've also read a whole

0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.940
<v S1>bunch about it and seen a whole bunch of this

0:16:01.940 --> 0:16:06.020
<v S1>stuff in on the Intel side and also on the

0:16:06.020 --> 0:16:09.680
<v S1>military side, and it comes down. Oh, I also built

0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:15.440
<v S1>a program around this concept at Apple for the security org. Right.

0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:18.050
<v S1>And this is a product that's still being used today

0:16:18.050 --> 0:16:22.170
<v S1>inside the company, which I'm very proud of. But I

0:16:22.170 --> 0:16:28.680
<v S1>use these concepts there. It's like data information intelligence. And

0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:33.180
<v S1>the intelligence piece is the one where there's intelligence, human

0:16:33.180 --> 0:16:37.410
<v S1>intelligence going into that effort to turn this into a narrative,

0:16:37.410 --> 0:16:42.060
<v S1>into a story for decision support. So at the above intelligence,

0:16:42.060 --> 0:16:45.690
<v S1>you have decision, right? Or maybe maybe it's not above,

0:16:45.690 --> 0:16:48.479
<v S1>maybe it's, um, to the right or whatever. But it's

0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.960
<v S1>like the purpose of that intelligence is to distill down.

0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:56.130
<v S1>So the the general is not looking at log files. Right.

0:16:56.130 --> 0:17:00.330
<v S1>Which is like data streaming in. Okay. You have information.

0:17:00.330 --> 0:17:02.430
<v S1>It's like a summary of the log files. And this

0:17:02.430 --> 0:17:05.970
<v S1>might not be a perfect analogy, but it moves up

0:17:05.970 --> 0:17:10.830
<v S1>and up in layers of abstraction with the entire purpose

0:17:10.830 --> 0:17:14.070
<v S1>of a human making a decision. Right? So if you

0:17:14.070 --> 0:17:18.300
<v S1>look at results as a service, I'm thinking intelligence as

0:17:18.300 --> 0:17:21.270
<v S1>a service is what I'm thinking. That's the first thing

0:17:21.270 --> 0:17:22.800
<v S1>in my mind goes to there's a whole bunch of

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.369
<v S1>different implementations of this. Like it could be a a

0:17:26.369 --> 0:17:29.700
<v S1>business decision. Do I cancel this customer? Do I refund

0:17:29.700 --> 0:17:32.880
<v S1>this customer? Do I do whatever? But either way, it's

0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.909
<v S1>a whole bunch of legacy things happening with collection and

0:17:35.910 --> 0:17:40.200
<v S1>stuff like that, and IT systems and data sources and everything.

0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:44.010
<v S1>And then there's this thing that traditionally human is done,

0:17:44.010 --> 0:17:49.500
<v S1>or like Deborah or Chris or Raj or whoever it is,

0:17:49.500 --> 0:17:51.659
<v S1>they look at all the data and they say, you

0:17:51.660 --> 0:17:55.500
<v S1>know what, we are going to issue a payout for

0:17:55.500 --> 0:17:59.720
<v S1>this insurance policy, and that is the decision part. And

0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:02.869
<v S1>the result is a yes or no. Thumbs up, thumbs down.

0:18:02.869 --> 0:18:06.410
<v S1>And that gets us to this results as a service. Right?

0:18:06.410 --> 0:18:08.960
<v S1>So ideally you could just take all your different data,

0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.320
<v S1>all your different decision points, throw that into context, throw

0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:16.070
<v S1>it up to one of these services, which is one

0:18:16.070 --> 0:18:19.130
<v S1>of these that I'm building as well. And in like

0:18:19.130 --> 0:18:21.500
<v S1>3 or 4 years, everyone's going to know this, and

0:18:21.500 --> 0:18:23.420
<v S1>this is just going to be the way all software

0:18:23.420 --> 0:18:26.540
<v S1>is built. But I'm already building this and I've already

0:18:26.540 --> 0:18:30.980
<v S1>got pieces of this that work. Um, and it's it's

0:18:30.980 --> 0:18:33.590
<v S1>really exciting. I mean, this is essentially the future of

0:18:33.590 --> 0:18:37.460
<v S1>software is doing this. You ask a question, you include context,

0:18:37.460 --> 0:18:40.760
<v S1>and you get back a result, a very high quality result.

0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.330
<v S1>So very excited about this concept and very good, uh,

0:18:44.330 --> 0:18:47.359
<v S1>piece here on medium, which I wish nothing was on medium,

0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.470
<v S1>but whatever. All right. Sam Logan has a new post

0:18:51.470 --> 0:18:54.800
<v S1>on how to get structured output from Llms, covering various

0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.000
<v S1>frameworks and their pros and cons. Yeah, really enjoy this one.

0:18:59.060 --> 0:19:02.869
<v S1>Talked about converting English to JSON and a bunch of

0:19:02.869 --> 0:19:06.290
<v S1>other stuff, but yeah, enjoyed that. All right. Someone got

0:19:06.290 --> 0:19:09.560
<v S1>invited to a project called Rebind where I versions of

0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:13.250
<v S1>authors interact with readers about classic books. These are the

0:19:13.250 --> 0:19:16.970
<v S1>really cool ideas. I just love ideas like this. Coming

0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.990
<v S1>to life Fabian Boff from Octo Mind explains why they

0:19:20.990 --> 0:19:25.100
<v S1>stopped using laying chain for their agents, highlighting its rigid,

0:19:25.100 --> 0:19:28.820
<v S1>high level abstractions. So I'm going to say something extra

0:19:28.820 --> 0:19:34.430
<v S1>spicy right now. A lot of these low level libraries

0:19:34.430 --> 0:19:40.310
<v S1>and frameworks for doing really difficult things like Rag, uh,

0:19:40.310 --> 0:19:44.449
<v S1>or agents, a lot of these agent frameworks, things like

0:19:44.450 --> 0:19:50.840
<v S1>laying chain, they are extremely kludgy. If anything was like overhyped,

0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:55.820
<v S1>I would say these first generation efforts at these things

0:19:55.820 --> 0:19:59.540
<v S1>are massively overhyped. And it kind of goes back to

0:19:59.540 --> 0:20:02.840
<v S1>this results as a service thing. Results as a service

0:20:02.840 --> 0:20:05.960
<v S1>is kind of the future of this, because it's not

0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:11.720
<v S1>asking you to mesh stack together these Jenga blocks of

0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:16.040
<v S1>like really kludgy code. Because here's the problem. And it

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:22.010
<v S1>kind of applies to, um, to, uh, what are those called, um, notebooks.

0:20:22.010 --> 0:20:25.850
<v S1>It kind of applies to notebooks as well, because notebooks

0:20:25.850 --> 0:20:30.860
<v S1>like notebooks and agents and in laying chain, they make

0:20:30.859 --> 0:20:34.520
<v S1>great demos, they make great demos. But when you try

0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:37.070
<v S1>to take this stuff and build a production app on it,

0:20:37.070 --> 0:20:40.460
<v S1>you throw real scenarios into it, you throw real data

0:20:40.460 --> 0:20:44.690
<v S1>at it and it just falls over. And what universally,

0:20:44.690 --> 0:20:48.260
<v S1>almost everyone I've seen, and this is definitely what I've done.

0:20:48.260 --> 0:20:52.639
<v S1>You have to rebuild the entire thing from scratch using

0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:55.970
<v S1>smaller parts, which I've always been obsessed with this smaller

0:20:55.970 --> 0:20:59.660
<v S1>parts connected together. So it's like it it's necessary for

0:20:59.660 --> 0:21:02.840
<v S1>AI as well, which is why I'm building my very own,

0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.950
<v S1>like complete stack on this, uh, which is called substrate.

0:21:06.950 --> 0:21:11.150
<v S1>And I'm basically using those components to build apps. And

0:21:11.150 --> 0:21:14.959
<v S1>each one of the components is highly trusted and highly

0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:19.610
<v S1>rigorous in what it takes in and processes and what

0:21:19.609 --> 0:21:23.510
<v S1>it outputs. So it's dependable all the way through the pipeline.

0:21:23.510 --> 0:21:27.320
<v S1>And if you don't do this and you just start

0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:32.840
<v S1>piecing together laying chain and agent frameworks. And don't get

0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:37.129
<v S1>me wrong, I am not like, uh, being negative about

0:21:37.130 --> 0:21:40.880
<v S1>these things. Laying chain has done amazing things for AI

0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:46.130
<v S1>and these agent frameworks Autogen crew AI. They're doing amazing

0:21:46.130 --> 0:21:50.330
<v S1>stuff too, like no question. But as someone who's actually

0:21:50.330 --> 0:21:53.330
<v S1>building this stuff, the reality is completely different when you

0:21:53.330 --> 0:21:57.169
<v S1>start throwing production data at this stuff because you need consistency,

0:21:57.170 --> 0:22:02.330
<v S1>you need trust in these systems. And, uh, pretty much

0:22:02.330 --> 0:22:06.800
<v S1>every one that I know, they started building with these

0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:11.510
<v S1>bigger blocks. And then they got a few months in

0:22:11.510 --> 0:22:14.120
<v S1>and they had to tear it all down and start over,

0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:18.200
<v S1>building their own individual components. And so I think that's

0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.680
<v S1>where this is all going. Um, and eventually that's going

0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.560
<v S1>to merge into results as a service, which is kind

0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.949
<v S1>of like the opposite, actually. It's more like somebody did

0:22:27.950 --> 0:22:32.480
<v S1>build that back end, uh, dependable infrastructure, and now you're

0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:36.230
<v S1>just getting the results from it. Um, and the way

0:22:36.230 --> 0:22:38.810
<v S1>to know if it works is does it work? Do

0:22:38.810 --> 0:22:41.090
<v S1>you keep getting the right answer? And if you do,

0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:44.120
<v S1>you'll we will, as a society, build trust in that

0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:48.379
<v S1>over time. And ideally the thing will also be it

0:22:48.380 --> 0:22:53.750
<v S1>will also be publishing information about its components and the

0:22:53.750 --> 0:22:57.560
<v S1>sources that it used. So there'll be like some transparency there. Uh,

0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:00.170
<v S1>that will be part of. The quality of the service

0:23:00.170 --> 0:23:03.290
<v S1>is if you can actually inspect it and inspect like, okay,

0:23:03.290 --> 0:23:07.070
<v S1>which models did you use, which data sources did you use? Right.

0:23:07.070 --> 0:23:09.290
<v S1>Because if you're just like, no, trust me, because I'm

0:23:09.290 --> 0:23:12.619
<v S1>awesome and you like the results and don't worry about it,

0:23:12.619 --> 0:23:15.020
<v S1>for a lot of people, that won't be enough. All right?

0:23:15.020 --> 0:23:19.310
<v S1>My buddy Evan Özcelik and long time Ulr, he argues

0:23:19.310 --> 0:23:22.820
<v S1>that our obsession with convenience is making us less human,

0:23:22.820 --> 0:23:25.490
<v S1>and he wrote this on his blog, Snake Eye Software.

0:23:25.490 --> 0:23:28.910
<v S1>Solar generated a fifth of global electricity at midday on

0:23:28.910 --> 0:23:34.490
<v S1>the summer solstice. Solstice? Yep, a fifth of global energy

0:23:34.910 --> 0:23:40.609
<v S1>at midday. On summer solstice. That is interesting. I feel like,

0:23:40.790 --> 0:23:43.850
<v S1>I don't know, I'm not an expert on energy either,

0:23:43.850 --> 0:23:48.200
<v S1>but I, I really just wish we would go way heavier,

0:23:48.200 --> 0:23:53.869
<v S1>way heavier on solar, build, 100 giant mega solar farms

0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:58.440
<v S1>or 500 of them. And just go head to head

0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:04.830
<v S1>against China on solar. Because nuclear reactors, I understand that

0:24:04.830 --> 0:24:07.500
<v S1>they're really good energy and I understand they're awesome and

0:24:07.500 --> 0:24:11.880
<v S1>I understand all that, but they're very complex. They are

0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:16.470
<v S1>fundamentally dangerous, even though I know they're way safer than

0:24:16.470 --> 0:24:19.530
<v S1>they are now. It's possible to make them safe. Here's

0:24:19.530 --> 0:24:22.590
<v S1>another reason they freak people out. So there's going to

0:24:22.590 --> 0:24:25.710
<v S1>be so much more friction to trying to get one

0:24:25.710 --> 0:24:29.550
<v S1>or 2 or 10 of them built. And we are

0:24:29.550 --> 0:24:34.320
<v S1>in a race where speed matters and time matters. So

0:24:34.320 --> 0:24:36.780
<v S1>China can just build a whole bunch of those because

0:24:36.780 --> 0:24:41.010
<v S1>they have nobody to ask. They're just like, move, move.

0:24:41.010 --> 0:24:44.910
<v S1>We're building stuff here and everyone's like, yay, China! Like

0:24:44.910 --> 0:24:49.080
<v S1>they have just this massive advantage. Well, we can we

0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:51.179
<v S1>can move fast too if we do solar and it's

0:24:51.180 --> 0:24:54.960
<v S1>not freaking people out. So let's just go build 500

0:24:54.960 --> 0:24:58.590
<v S1>mega solar plants like Elon has been talking about forever,

0:24:58.590 --> 0:25:02.460
<v S1>and just jump way ahead, way ahead of the game

0:25:02.460 --> 0:25:06.330
<v S1>and still do nuclear, right? And you know where that

0:25:06.330 --> 0:25:08.820
<v S1>makes sense and where we can. But don't let it

0:25:08.820 --> 0:25:11.310
<v S1>slow us down. So when I'm talking about using SSH

0:25:11.340 --> 0:25:15.240
<v S1>as a pseudo replacement, uh, basically you can use it

0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:20.129
<v S1>to execute commands as another user. So why not use

0:25:20.130 --> 0:25:24.990
<v S1>that permission model instead of pseudo? Interesting. Apple is renaming

0:25:24.990 --> 0:25:29.250
<v S1>Apple ID to Apple account I like it. A group

0:25:29.250 --> 0:25:34.919
<v S1>of 17 secondary schools in Southwark, London, are going smartphone

0:25:35.130 --> 0:25:39.840
<v S1>free to combat the negative effects of phone use on students,

0:25:40.680 --> 0:25:43.619
<v S1>and I really love that Jonathan Heights work here is

0:25:43.619 --> 0:25:46.080
<v S1>spreading so fast. He put out his new book. He's

0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:50.740
<v S1>been blasting it all over podcasts. And I just love

0:25:50.740 --> 0:25:53.980
<v S1>that his work is catching on. And Gavin Newsom is

0:25:53.980 --> 0:25:57.100
<v S1>now going to ban, uh, smartphones. Or he's trying he's

0:25:57.100 --> 0:26:00.310
<v S1>trying to ban them. And likely this is coming from

0:26:00.310 --> 0:26:04.090
<v S1>impact from height as well. House prices are surging again

0:26:04.090 --> 0:26:08.230
<v S1>with global index up over 3% year on year. Insufficient

0:26:08.230 --> 0:26:12.730
<v S1>sun exposure is now a serious public health issue, potentially

0:26:12.730 --> 0:26:15.669
<v S1>causing hundreds of thousands of deaths annually in the US

0:26:15.670 --> 0:26:18.369
<v S1>and Europe. Isn't this like cheese and eggs and milk

0:26:18.369 --> 0:26:21.910
<v S1>and I don't know, so many, so many things. It's like,

0:26:22.030 --> 0:26:25.240
<v S1>that'll kill you. Well, everyone stops and it's like, yeah,

0:26:25.240 --> 0:26:28.900
<v S1>if you don't do that, that'll kill you. So I

0:26:28.900 --> 0:26:32.470
<v S1>can't wait till Huberman figures this out for us. Uh,

0:26:32.470 --> 0:26:35.860
<v S1>reads all the papers, uh, invites all the experts on.

0:26:35.859 --> 0:26:37.630
<v S1>And I know a lot of people are starting to

0:26:37.630 --> 0:26:42.399
<v S1>doubt Huberman and stuff like that, and I'm. I'm getting

0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:45.190
<v S1>a little more cautious with him. I'm not sure why,

0:26:45.190 --> 0:26:47.110
<v S1>but I'm getting a little more cautious with him. But

0:26:47.109 --> 0:26:49.720
<v S1>I don't know anyone else who is looking at these

0:26:49.720 --> 0:26:53.410
<v S1>papers and doing this great analysis. And I don't fault

0:26:53.410 --> 0:26:57.880
<v S1>people for being wrong sometimes I don't, I fault people

0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:04.629
<v S1>for being overconfident, never looking at themselves, never going after

0:27:04.630 --> 0:27:08.320
<v S1>their own errors, never trying to self-correct, and not being

0:27:08.320 --> 0:27:12.220
<v S1>analytical and pointing that lens at themselves. And I feel

0:27:12.220 --> 0:27:14.920
<v S1>like Huberman is good at that. I would like to

0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:17.560
<v S1>him to come back and do some episodes on, like,

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:19.989
<v S1>here's stuff I got wrong and why and why I'm

0:27:19.990 --> 0:27:23.200
<v S1>going to fix that in the future. But anyway, he's

0:27:23.200 --> 0:27:25.870
<v S1>the best there is right now. And what I would

0:27:25.869 --> 0:27:28.540
<v S1>like to know about the sun thing is, I feel

0:27:28.540 --> 0:27:30.730
<v S1>better when I go out in the sun in the morning,

0:27:30.730 --> 0:27:33.190
<v S1>and I'm not sure it's only because of the light

0:27:33.190 --> 0:27:37.030
<v S1>going in my eyes. I feel like there's something about

0:27:37.030 --> 0:27:40.750
<v S1>walking on the ground, absorbing sunlight, and a lot of

0:27:40.750 --> 0:27:43.840
<v S1>this feels very emotional. So that's why I actually want

0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:46.840
<v S1>to see data. Like, I don't want this to be

0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:50.740
<v S1>based on vibes, but meanwhile I'm going to do it

0:27:50.740 --> 0:27:54.460
<v S1>based on vibes. Seems like a net good. Oh, in

0:27:54.460 --> 0:27:59.770
<v S1>one caveat, there is, um, between 10 and 2 is

0:27:59.770 --> 0:28:02.980
<v S1>like the worst time because your UV index is the worst.

0:28:02.980 --> 0:28:07.000
<v S1>But like super early sun is supposedly fairly safe because

0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:11.350
<v S1>the angle of incidence like coming into the atmosphere. So

0:28:11.350 --> 0:28:15.909
<v S1>evidently the UV is pretty low, but the visible light

0:28:15.910 --> 0:28:18.879
<v S1>I think is still much higher. I'm not sure if

0:28:18.880 --> 0:28:22.510
<v S1>those are correlated, but visible light is going to, uh,

0:28:22.510 --> 0:28:26.740
<v S1>set your clock, your circadian rhythm. And I feel like

0:28:26.740 --> 0:28:30.940
<v S1>there's just other health benefits there, too. And anyway, what

0:28:30.940 --> 0:28:33.580
<v S1>that study was basically saying is that a lot of

0:28:33.580 --> 0:28:36.909
<v S1>people aren't getting any sun, they're not going outside, they're

0:28:36.910 --> 0:28:40.210
<v S1>not doing anything. And I wonder how mixed that is

0:28:40.210 --> 0:28:43.090
<v S1>with like other things like exercise or whatever. But obviously

0:28:43.090 --> 0:28:45.580
<v S1>they try to filter that out. But the the idea

0:28:45.580 --> 0:28:49.180
<v S1>is basically people aren't going outside and they're depressed. And

0:28:49.180 --> 0:28:53.110
<v S1>guess what? There's probably a connection. They're having more positive

0:28:53.110 --> 0:28:55.750
<v S1>experience in life is linked to lower odds of brain

0:28:55.750 --> 0:29:01.750
<v S1>disorders like Alzheimer's and lower cognitive decline. And, uh, got

0:29:01.750 --> 0:29:06.880
<v S1>this secret Ted Cruz funding documents slightly redacted. Cut this, um,

0:29:07.420 --> 0:29:11.230
<v S1>this guy over here called Capital Press, and he's basically

0:29:11.230 --> 0:29:16.990
<v S1>like a watchdog, like a one person, like journalist group monitoring,

0:29:16.990 --> 0:29:22.410
<v S1>like the goings on of Congress people. And it's not in, like,

0:29:22.410 --> 0:29:27.540
<v S1>a stalkery nasty way. Uh, or a legal way. I

0:29:27.540 --> 0:29:31.530
<v S1>think it's more like Osint. Like what? Things are being

0:29:31.530 --> 0:29:34.260
<v S1>dropped out there in the public, you know, little clues

0:29:34.260 --> 0:29:38.130
<v S1>that can be hoovered up and, uh, and checked out.

0:29:38.130 --> 0:29:40.380
<v S1>And this is one thing I'm really excited about. This

0:29:40.380 --> 0:29:43.739
<v S1>is another thing I'm building in substrate is like an

0:29:43.740 --> 0:29:47.250
<v S1>intelligence collector, uh, which will allow me to do intelligence

0:29:47.250 --> 0:29:49.500
<v S1>reports like the one that I did before. And like this,

0:29:49.500 --> 0:29:54.810
<v S1>this guy is doing so. Yeah. Before. Before basically, this

0:29:54.810 --> 0:29:58.980
<v S1>was spy agencies, right? Journalists and spies were able to

0:29:58.980 --> 0:30:01.650
<v S1>do this because they had the money and they had

0:30:01.650 --> 0:30:06.930
<v S1>the training. Right. Well, I, I is cheap. It has

0:30:06.930 --> 0:30:09.090
<v S1>a lot of knowledge about how to do things. It

0:30:09.090 --> 0:30:11.790
<v S1>also has knowledge about how to turn those things into

0:30:11.790 --> 0:30:15.510
<v S1>a story and see patterns between them. So I'm going

0:30:15.510 --> 0:30:19.140
<v S1>to build something really nasty here. Really, really cool. Nasty.

0:30:19.140 --> 0:30:21.540
<v S1>I mean awesome. Uh, so so I can have like

0:30:21.540 --> 0:30:24.810
<v S1>a daily intelligence report of like, here's what the smartest

0:30:24.810 --> 0:30:28.110
<v S1>people in the world think about this, and here's where

0:30:28.110 --> 0:30:32.940
<v S1>their ideas diverge from each other. Here's how their opinions

0:30:32.940 --> 0:30:37.680
<v S1>diverge from one another. Here's where their ideas point at

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:40.080
<v S1>the exact same thing. And I can do like a

0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:43.050
<v S1>heat map of like, opinions and like, I can't wait

0:30:43.050 --> 0:30:45.930
<v S1>to mess with this thing. All right, in our solar

0:30:45.930 --> 0:30:50.340
<v S1>eclipse photo competition. Look at this thing. This thing is insane.

0:30:51.120 --> 0:30:55.110
<v S1>Look at that. Look at this. That is so beautiful. Purple.

0:30:55.110 --> 0:30:57.870
<v S1>It's got the solar halo. And you got a plane. Oh.

0:30:57.870 --> 0:31:01.650
<v S1>Second place. Yeah. The plane one's way better. Sorry. Yeah.

0:31:01.650 --> 0:31:06.360
<v S1>Look at this. Purple. Oh, man. Got some, uh, vapor

0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:12.660
<v S1>trails there. Yeah. Very cool. All right. Ideas. Toddler intelligence

0:31:12.660 --> 0:31:17.470
<v S1>to PhD in around four years. That's what, uh, Mira

0:31:17.470 --> 0:31:21.880
<v S1>Murati just talked about on a podcast. Very interesting. I've

0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:24.790
<v S1>got this thing. Uh, just don't call it AI if

0:31:24.790 --> 0:31:26.920
<v S1>you're tired of hearing the word, I have a solution

0:31:26.920 --> 0:31:30.010
<v S1>for you. Forget. I forget the word. Forget everything about it.

0:31:30.010 --> 0:31:32.770
<v S1>And now just imagine the addition of hundreds of billions

0:31:32.770 --> 0:31:37.060
<v S1>of little helpers that people and companies can use to

0:31:37.060 --> 0:31:40.480
<v S1>do things like white collar work and writing and editing documents,

0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:44.800
<v S1>responding to emails, doing customer service, making sales calls, etc.

0:31:45.310 --> 0:31:48.850
<v S1>and taking ideas and turning those into full presentations, books

0:31:48.850 --> 0:31:51.820
<v S1>or films or whatever, and millions of other tasks that

0:31:51.820 --> 0:31:54.610
<v S1>otherwise would have not been done at all or would

0:31:54.610 --> 0:31:59.740
<v S1>have been done slowly or poorly by humans. And we're

0:31:59.740 --> 0:32:01.690
<v S1>about to have that. That's what we're about to have.

0:32:01.690 --> 0:32:05.620
<v S1>We're about to have billions of those things, doing tons

0:32:05.620 --> 0:32:10.690
<v S1>of stuff. I mean, just mountain loads of stuff that

0:32:10.690 --> 0:32:13.630
<v S1>has never been done before or was being done worse

0:32:13.630 --> 0:32:17.200
<v S1>by humans. Maybe we should call these things helpers, or

0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:20.410
<v S1>maybe we should call them whatever, but they're definitely going

0:32:20.410 --> 0:32:23.080
<v S1>to be very helpful, especially to employees who want to

0:32:23.080 --> 0:32:25.600
<v S1>do ten x the amount of work, or 100 x

0:32:25.600 --> 0:32:28.270
<v S1>the amount of work, or 1000 times the amount of

0:32:28.270 --> 0:32:31.150
<v S1>work that they were doing before, and have it be

0:32:31.150 --> 0:32:35.200
<v S1>done in a more consistent way or with higher quality.

0:32:35.200 --> 0:32:38.380
<v S1>And remember, the bar for a human work is low.

0:32:38.380 --> 0:32:40.930
<v S1>It is very low. If you've ever worked anywhere, if

0:32:40.930 --> 0:32:45.190
<v S1>you've ever worked with anyone. We are fallible. We make mistakes.

0:32:45.190 --> 0:32:47.860
<v S1>We are inconsistent. And if you ask a whole bunch

0:32:47.860 --> 0:32:50.080
<v S1>of experts how to do something, or you have them

0:32:50.080 --> 0:32:53.440
<v S1>actually do something, the quality level will be vastly different

0:32:53.440 --> 0:32:57.490
<v S1>and the average worker is just not that good at

0:32:57.490 --> 0:33:01.090
<v S1>their job and they don't really care that much. I mean,

0:33:01.090 --> 0:33:04.390
<v S1>that's just a fact. Or I would say maybe not

0:33:04.390 --> 0:33:07.570
<v S1>the average one, but like right below the average and

0:33:07.570 --> 0:33:10.630
<v S1>there are millions upon millions of those workers. So we're

0:33:10.630 --> 0:33:15.670
<v S1>talking about replacing that with better versions, more scalable, more

0:33:15.670 --> 0:33:21.010
<v S1>consistent and more upgradable, like instantly upgradable. So that's what

0:33:21.010 --> 0:33:24.070
<v S1>we're about to have billions of those. But don't call

0:33:24.070 --> 0:33:28.270
<v S1>it AI. Nope, nope, don't call it AI. Because AI

0:33:28.270 --> 0:33:30.850
<v S1>is annoying. It's an annoying word, so just don't use

0:33:30.850 --> 0:33:33.670
<v S1>it and you'll be safe. All right. Discovery web check.

0:33:33.670 --> 0:33:36.820
<v S1>Free and open source tool. Oh, this thing is so cool.

0:33:37.090 --> 0:33:39.910
<v S1>This thing is so cool. Yeah, I was playing with

0:33:39.910 --> 0:33:42.820
<v S1>this earlier. Watch this. All right, so first of all,

0:33:42.820 --> 0:33:44.770
<v S1>you can download it and run it yourself. But they

0:33:44.770 --> 0:33:48.610
<v S1>also have a web version. So look at the website websites. Cool.

0:33:49.030 --> 0:33:54.000
<v S1>All right. Is this cool. This is cool. I mean,

0:33:54.000 --> 0:33:57.910
<v S1>is it valuable? I don't know. But I love it.

0:33:57.910 --> 0:34:00.280
<v S1>I mean, it's got so much value in here. It's

0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:02.709
<v S1>just I'm not sure how I'm going to use that value.

0:34:03.410 --> 0:34:07.710
<v S1>Probably parse the whole thing and ask AI to. Tell

0:34:07.710 --> 0:34:11.280
<v S1>me what I need to pay attention to and prioritize

0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:15.520
<v S1>it for me. Give me a turn into a task list.

0:34:15.520 --> 0:34:19.300
<v S1>That's what I probably do anyway. It's really cool. Hayes

0:34:19.300 --> 0:34:25.420
<v S1>Labs automated red teaming against Llms Agentic LLM Vulnerability Scanner

0:34:25.420 --> 0:34:28.720
<v S1>open source tool for fuzzing and stress testing Llms with

0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:33.370
<v S1>customizable rule sets. Incogni I use another one I think

0:34:33.370 --> 0:34:37.239
<v S1>I use delete me is very similar to this service

0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:39.729
<v S1>that removes your personal info from the web to block

0:34:39.730 --> 0:34:45.300
<v S1>spam calls and protect privacy. Confusion is a muse. This

0:34:45.300 --> 0:34:49.700
<v S1>is a really cool little article. Talk about. Yeah. You

0:34:49.700 --> 0:34:52.760
<v S1>don't want to get rid of confusion because it it

0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:57.109
<v S1>speaks to you, makes you smarter. Complexity expands to fill

0:34:57.110 --> 0:35:01.820
<v S1>the space available. Mhm. Love it. The winter of content

0:35:01.820 --> 0:35:08.000
<v S1>how Game of Thrones changed media driving traffic and homogenizing journalism.

0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:12.500
<v S1>A new salary database created from viral videos. The internet

0:35:12.500 --> 0:35:16.520
<v S1>is now for bots, not humans, and an impossibly thin

0:35:16.520 --> 0:35:21.020
<v S1>fabric can cool you down over 16 degrees. I hesitate

0:35:21.020 --> 0:35:24.020
<v S1>to show these things unless I can buy them, but

0:35:24.020 --> 0:35:26.780
<v S1>this one was cool enough. I made an exception and

0:35:26.780 --> 0:35:29.719
<v S1>the recommendation of the week. Get a copy of Meditations

0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:32.960
<v S1>by Marcus Aurelius and keep it by your bed and

0:35:32.960 --> 0:35:37.009
<v S1>read some before you go to sleep. Two major benefits one.

0:35:37.010 --> 0:35:40.850
<v S1>You'll fall asleep faster. Two you will fall asleep feeling

0:35:40.850 --> 0:35:45.350
<v S1>grateful for your life. I think that's what stoicism does

0:35:45.350 --> 0:35:47.210
<v S1>for me, and I hope it does it for you

0:35:47.210 --> 0:35:50.690
<v S1>as well. And the aphorism of the week inspired by love,

0:35:50.719 --> 0:35:57.140
<v S1>guided by knowledge, inspired by love, guided by knowledge Bertrand Russell.

0:36:00.100 --> 0:36:03.250
<v S1>Unsupervised Learning is produced and edited by Daniel Miller on

0:36:03.250 --> 0:36:07.870
<v S1>a Neumann U87 AI microphone using Hindenburg. Intro and outro

0:36:07.870 --> 0:36:11.170
<v S1>music is by Zomby with the Y, and to get

0:36:11.170 --> 0:36:13.270
<v S1>the text and links from this episode, sign up for

0:36:13.270 --> 0:36:18.930
<v S1>the newsletter version of the show at Daniel miessler.com/newsletter. We'll

0:36:18.930 --> 0:36:19.739
<v S1>see you next time.