WEBVTT - UL NO. 465 | The SaaS Attack Vector, Project Stargate, and Undersea Cable Drones

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<v S1>Unsupervised Learning is a podcast about trends and ideas in cybersecurity,

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<v S1>national security, AI, technology and society, and how best to

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<v S1>upgrade ourselves to be ready for what's coming. All right.

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<v S1>Welcome to unsupervised Learning. This is Daniel. All right. Episode 465.

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<v S1>What do we have? So I spent like 20 hours

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<v S1>over the past few weeks updating my homepage about page projects, Telos,

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<v S1>a whole bunch of different stuff. Uh, predictions page, just

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<v S1>a lot of new content on the website, which is

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<v S1>a completely new looking website. Basically, the website was all

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<v S1>on beehive, and now it's back in its natural home

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<v S1>at regular. Daniel Mysa.com and the newsletters on newsletter.com. So yeah,

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<v S1>go check that out. Highly recommend checking out two podcast episodes.

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<v S1>I've been absolutely loving Dan Carlin on Alexander the Great. I'm. Yeah.

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<v S1>I just love it. I'm so happy that he's back.

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<v S1>I thought he actually got out of the game or

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<v S1>retired or something, but this thing has from like June

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<v S1>of 2024, so it's good news that he's back. I

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<v S1>absolutely love getting history in this sort of way. He's

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<v S1>describing history. It's also mostly biography based. I just love

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<v S1>the whole thing. It's great. And I just listened to

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<v S1>the acquired episode on TSMC and it made me buy

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<v S1>more of their stock. I tend to buy stock from

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<v S1>companies that they talk about, um, namely Costco and now TSMC. But, uh, yeah, really,

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<v S1>really good episode. And my buddy Joseph Thacker has gone independent.

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<v S1>So happy for him about this. He's now a full

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<v S1>time bug bounty hacker and entrepreneur, and I really can't

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<v S1>wait to see what he does this year in 25 security.

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<v S1>So new research shows that the average employee creates a

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<v S1>new SAS account every two Two weeks, which is creating

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<v S1>massive security blind spots for companies. If I click on

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<v S1>this link, um, yeah, it's pretty bad. It's pretty bad. Uh,

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<v S1>definitely recommend checking this out if you are into app security,

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<v S1>enterprise security, that kind of stuff. Uh, a lot of

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<v S1>this data comes from the new, um, Verizon Dbir report

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<v S1>found web applications were involved in 50% of security incidents,

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<v S1>and 80% of breaches now involve compromised SaaS credentials. And

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<v S1>that's according to CrowdStrike. Google just shared how they handle

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<v S1>threat detection at a massive scale. They're doing some wild

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<v S1>stuff around automation and response time. So standard response time

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<v S1>is like days or weeks. And they're now doing it

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<v S1>in just hours. And they're automating automating 97% of their

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<v S1>detection work. So you got to imagine how much that

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<v S1>actually is at Google. Microsoft's AI Red team published their

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<v S1>findings from attacking over 100 AI I products. Sharing key

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<v S1>lessons for identifying risks and vulnerabilities. Most interesting insight is

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<v S1>that basic techniques like prompt injection usually work better than

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<v S1>complex attacks. It makes sense. I mean, it is the

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<v S1>main attack. In my opinion. Prompt injection is the thing

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<v S1>that kind of makes this different than other types of security,

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<v S1>because otherwise we're mostly talking about API security. When we're

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<v S1>talking about AI security, it's threat modeling the entire data

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<v S1>flow from the ingress point all the way to the

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<v S1>different places it could be stored for, like second order attacks.

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<v S1>And all of that is kind of similar. The thing

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<v S1>that makes it different is like English being the language

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<v S1>of attack and the fact that you could trick a

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<v S1>Semi-intelligent processor, right? So parsers have always been vulnerable, but

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<v S1>it's even more vulnerable now because you can trick it, right?

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<v S1>It's a different kind of tricking. You could trick it

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<v S1>using logic and stories and stuff like that. You could

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<v S1>always trick passers, and that's kind of the game in security.

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<v S1>But the types of attacks that you can do now are,

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<v S1>are broader and more powerful with prompt injection. So I

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<v S1>think that's the main avenue which which seems like it's

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<v S1>what they found as well. Basic techniques like prompt injection

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<v S1>work even better than complex attacks. Not quite the same point,

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<v S1>but related. And DJI just announced that they're removing all

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<v S1>geofencing restrictions from their drones in the US, which means

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<v S1>you can technically now fly them anywhere, including airports, wildfires.

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<v S1>Which one took down one of those big, uh, water

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<v S1>planes and the white House? This can't be right. Like,

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<v S1>how is this not going to get them TikTok? And

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<v S1>by TikTok, I don't mean turned off for one day

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<v S1>and turn back on. I mean, serious trouble. The new administration,

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<v S1>along with Larry Ellison, Sam Altman and Masayoshi Son, launched

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<v S1>a new AI project called Stargate, basically a new company

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<v S1>and a $500 Billion dollar investment. That's half $1 trillion

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<v S1>designed to make sure the US wins the AI war

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<v S1>versus China. And the Pentagon is now using AI from

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<v S1>companies like OpenAI and anthropic to help identify and assess

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<v S1>threats faster. But supposedly they're being careful to keep humans

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<v S1>in control of actual weapons for now. And Rachel Toback

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<v S1>posted that it was her pleasure serving on the Cisa

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<v S1>Technical Advisory Council, which has now officially been shut down.

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<v S1>Trump dissolves the advisory committees, which is exactly what she

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<v S1>was on, and that's now been shut down. And AI powered.

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<v S1>Brad Pitt scam costs a woman £830,000, which I don't

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<v S1>know how much that is in real money, but I

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<v S1>think pretty close to $1 million might be over $1 million.

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<v S1>It's something around there, and it was basically someone claiming

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<v S1>to be Brad Pitt in a hospital, and you could

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<v S1>see the AI. It wasn't super convincing, but things are

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<v S1>a lot more convincing when you are lonely. Trump killed

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<v S1>Biden's main AI safety executive order from 2023 that required

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<v S1>companies like OpenAI to share safety test results with the government.

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<v S1>And then he launched Stargate, which is about moving fast

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<v S1>to beat China. So essentially that order was about moving

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<v S1>slower and more carefully. And Stargate is about moving as

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<v S1>fast as possible. And I'm pretty happy with this, actually, because,

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<v S1>I mean, I'm worried about AI moving fast no matter what,

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<v S1>but I'm more worried about AI in China moving fast

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<v S1>while AI in the US moves slow. So that's where

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<v S1>the priority is for me. NATO has launched Operation Baltic Sentry,

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<v S1>putting 20 autonomous boats in the Baltic Sea to protect

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<v S1>undersea cables from Russian sabotage. I think this is excellent.

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<v S1>But 2020 drones in the Baltic Sea. How much area

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<v S1>do you have to cover? I imagine you can cover

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<v S1>a lot because you can use radar above, Of a

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<v S1>sonar below. I imagine they have lots of different ways

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<v S1>to cover a lot of ground. I'm just saying it's

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<v S1>a small number of boats and very large body of water. Palmer.

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<v S1>Lucky's defense tech company. Andrew. Andrew. I'm going to call it.

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<v S1>Andrew is building a massive 5,000,000 square foot weapons factory

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<v S1>in Columbus, Ohio called Arsenal one, dropping close to $1

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<v S1>billion of their own money on this thing. I and

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<v S1>tech companies are using your data to charge you more.

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<v S1>FTC just released data showing companies are using your location, demographics,

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<v S1>and even mouse movements to charge you different prices for

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<v S1>the same products. Trump just announced Stargate. We already talked

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<v S1>about that one. Perplexity just launched an API that lets

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<v S1>developers build their real time AI search capabilities into their

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<v S1>own apps. I'm already using this, so I'm not sure

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<v S1>exactly if this is sonar that I was already using before,

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<v S1>and they just now launched it. Not sure about that,

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<v S1>but it is pretty cool because you're getting live data, right?

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<v S1>It's not just an API call to a static database,

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<v S1>or it's not just an API call to an LLM.

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<v S1>It's the combination of a search engine with an LLM,

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<v S1>with live data queries on top of it. So quite

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<v S1>quite useful. Transformer two introduces Self-adapting language models. Sakana I

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<v S1>just released a new approach that lets language models dynamically

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<v S1>adjust their weights in real time based on the tasks

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<v S1>that they're working on. TSMC has officially started making four

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<v S1>nanometer chips at their new Arizona plant, which is a

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<v S1>massive win for the US semiconductor manufacturing. I wonder how

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<v S1>many people are thinking that Arizona is like plan A

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<v S1>if China takes Taiwan? I love the fact that we

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<v S1>are in this position. I mean, it would be horrific

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<v S1>if this happened because it would still massively disrupt for

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<v S1>years and years. It would massively disrupt chip production and

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<v S1>basically technology production worldwide. If we were to lose the

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<v S1>TSMC plant in Taiwan, like, it's not a easy hot swap.

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<v S1>First of all, four nanometer is like old tech, and

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<v S1>TSMC has been talking for a long time about how

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<v S1>the staff in Arizona is nowhere near as good as

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<v S1>the staff in in Taiwan. The tech isn't as good.

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<v S1>It's not as as modern of a facility. It's like

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<v S1>way behind. But but if China basically takes this piece

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<v S1>off the board for the West, which is what Taiwan

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<v S1>is and what the US is and what you know,

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<v S1>the West is, if they were to take that off

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<v S1>the board, it would be nice to be able to

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<v S1>put a piece back on the board and do it

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<v S1>inside of Arizona, inside of the US. That would be wonderful. And,

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<v S1>you know, they would pump whatever administrations in power would pump,

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<v S1>you know, a couple of trillion dollars into that, probably

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<v S1>like immediately build two more plants, fully move tons of

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<v S1>people from TSMC over to Arizona or wherever, and get

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<v S1>this thing going properly. And speaking of TSMC, they had

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<v S1>to temporarily halt chip production after a 6.4 magnitude earthquake

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<v S1>hit the southern part of the island. And basically whatever

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<v S1>was being made at the time, right, right at this tiny,

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<v S1>tiny little scale. By the way, only five carbon atoms

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<v S1>fit inside of one nanometer. That is the thing I

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<v S1>learned from that acquired episode on TSMC. But yeah, basically,

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<v S1>while these things were being made, while a bunch of

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<v S1>chips were in production, this 6.4 earthquake hit. And earthquakes

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<v S1>shake things. That's what they do. So they basically have

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<v S1>to say, okay, anything being made at the time, most

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<v S1>of it is probably garbage. And they kind of throw

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<v S1>that out, which is probably very expensive. And then of

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<v S1>course you have to make sure everything is fine before

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<v S1>you start everything back up again. Zuckerberg just announced they're

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<v S1>letting go of around 3600 people by February 10th, and

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<v S1>they're planning to refill them with new hires. My read

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<v S1>on this is that it's a constant cleansing and replacing

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<v S1>of the workforce with what I call Alaskan boat crews.

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<v S1>Fishing boat crews. Right. And I think after doing this

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<v S1>for like a year, doing this a few times, the

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<v S1>culture will be basically like a killer culture. It'll be like, look,

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<v S1>we are here to work. We don't tolerate people who

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<v S1>don't work. We will report you. You will get put

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<v S1>on the naughty list and you'll get taken out. So

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<v S1>what it does is it just encourages like this super aggressive,

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<v S1>super high performance culture. And my prediction is that the

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<v S1>stock is going to go up quite a bit. But

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<v S1>don't take my word for that. Just uh, that's a

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<v S1>random prediction I like to put into the world so

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<v S1>that I can capture it and tell me when I

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<v S1>get it wrong. Okay. Meta just released a new AI

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<v S1>translation system called seamless that can translate speech between 36

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<v S1>languages while preserving the speaker's voice and emotional tone. Getting

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<v S1>closer to the universal translator. Scientists have created a new

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<v S1>laser measurement technique that can measure distances of over 100km

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<v S1>with nanometer level precision, which is insane. It's basically the

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<v S1>distance between two cities with the precision of 1/1000. One one. Oh, goodness.

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<v S1>1/1000 the width of a human hair. I didn't realize

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<v S1>that was a nanometer. 1/1000. Holy crap. That's that's small.

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<v S1>1/1000 of a human hair can fit five carbon atoms. Interesting.

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<v S1>RSS is making a comeback because it lets you get

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<v S1>all the good stuff from social media without the algorithmic manipulation.

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<v S1>And it got a link to mine. It's just Daniel

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<v S1>RSS or. Feed RSS. There's lots of different ones. If

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<v S1>you just do slash feed or slash RSS. It will

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<v S1>take you there. GitHub actions fall short for complex projects.

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<v S1>So somebody shares frustrating experience with GitHub actions breaking down

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<v S1>a larger, more complex environments like Monorepos with multiple teams. Humans.

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<v S1>Japan's elderly women choose prisons over loneliness. So a lot

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<v S1>of women are choosing to do petty crimes, so they'll

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<v S1>get thrown in jail where they get meals, health care

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<v S1>and community. This is extremely depressing to me. How are

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<v S1>we at this point that you've got these poor old

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<v S1>ladies who don't want to commit crimes? And it's not

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<v S1>really about the crimes. It's the fact that you would

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<v S1>rather go to jail because you're that lonely. What are

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<v S1>we doing? What are we doing wrong? Human connection is everything. U.S.

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<v S1>worker job satisfaction hits a ten year low. A new

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<v S1>Gallup poll shows American workers are more checked out than

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<v S1>they've been in a decade. Decade? What? 2015. Only 31%

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<v S1>saying they're engaged at work. You know, you know my spiel.

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<v S1>I'm not going to go into it. Sweden is reversing

0:14:20.660 --> 0:14:26.260
<v S1>its 2009 all digital education initiative by bringing back printed textbooks.

0:14:26.260 --> 0:14:30.940
<v S1>A comprehensive study in Texas from 2012 to 2018 found

0:14:30.940 --> 0:14:34.980
<v S1>that undocumented immigrants commit violent and drug crimes at less

0:14:34.980 --> 0:14:38.500
<v S1>than half the rate of native born citizens and property

0:14:38.500 --> 0:14:43.740
<v S1>crimes at just 25%. The rate of non know at

0:14:43.740 --> 0:14:49.060
<v S1>the rate of native born citizens. So dangerous crime basically

0:14:49.700 --> 0:14:55.500
<v S1>half and property crime only 25% as often. FTC just

0:14:55.500 --> 0:14:58.780
<v S1>released a report showing UnitedHealth and other major health care

0:14:58.820 --> 0:15:03.380
<v S1>companies are marking up cancer drugs by over 1,000%. Medicare

0:15:03.420 --> 0:15:06.460
<v S1>just added 15 more drugs to their price negotiation list,

0:15:06.460 --> 0:15:11.340
<v S1>including Ozempic and Wegovy. Scientists discovered Greenland sharks are the

0:15:11.340 --> 0:15:17.220
<v S1>longest living vertebrates on Earth. Some potentially being as old

0:15:17.220 --> 0:15:22.220
<v S1>as like 600 years old. Ideas Stoicism's gift. The greatest

0:15:22.220 --> 0:15:26.060
<v S1>gift that stoicism has given me personally is the ability

0:15:26.060 --> 0:15:28.900
<v S1>to enjoy something I still have, as if I no

0:15:28.900 --> 0:15:32.540
<v S1>longer have it. It is the ultimate frame. The greatest

0:15:32.540 --> 0:15:35.020
<v S1>gift that stoicism has given me is the ability to

0:15:35.020 --> 0:15:37.860
<v S1>enjoy something I still have, as if I no longer

0:15:37.860 --> 0:15:43.580
<v S1>have it. Discovery. SSH. SSH into throwaway Docker containers. Basically,

0:15:43.620 --> 0:15:45.900
<v S1>it's an open source tool lets you instantly spin up

0:15:45.900 --> 0:15:50.620
<v S1>a disposable Docker containers via SSH for quick testing and development.

0:15:50.740 --> 0:15:53.620
<v S1>And it got a bunch of my buddy Joseph Thatcher's

0:15:53.620 --> 0:15:58.540
<v S1>favorite lists. And, uh, UL was lucky enough to make

0:15:58.540 --> 0:16:00.460
<v S1>it on there a couple of times and the list

0:16:00.460 --> 0:16:03.340
<v S1>was quite long, so worth taking a look at. In fact,

0:16:03.340 --> 0:16:06.380
<v S1>I'm going to click over there. So best AI app cursor.

0:16:06.780 --> 0:16:12.500
<v S1>Best model cloud sonnet. Best red team company Hayes Labs, right?

0:16:12.540 --> 0:16:15.300
<v S1>So these are some of the things that he put

0:16:15.300 --> 0:16:18.100
<v S1>in their command line tool. Yeah. Fabric. That's one of

0:16:18.100 --> 0:16:23.380
<v S1>our mentions. Google bug bounty I jailbreaking resource. So lots

0:16:23.380 --> 0:16:25.140
<v S1>of cool ones over here. What I wish I knew

0:16:25.140 --> 0:16:29.340
<v S1>before quitting my job. So Michael Douglas shares his raw

0:16:29.340 --> 0:16:32.060
<v S1>experience of how quitting his job to work on his

0:16:32.100 --> 0:16:35.140
<v S1>own turned out way harder than expected. I post this

0:16:35.140 --> 0:16:38.740
<v S1>because I'm always talking about the counter narrative of how, oh,

0:16:38.780 --> 0:16:41.060
<v S1>you got to go independent. You got to do it

0:16:41.060 --> 0:16:43.620
<v S1>sooner than later. I just want to make it clear

0:16:43.620 --> 0:16:46.180
<v S1>that there is a counter narrative here. You do have

0:16:46.180 --> 0:16:50.540
<v S1>to be careful. You've got to get oriented and you

0:16:50.540 --> 0:16:52.940
<v S1>do have to be careful, is basically what I'm saying.

0:16:52.940 --> 0:16:56.980
<v S1>Michael Box shares a really practical framework called hypothesis sheets,

0:16:56.980 --> 0:17:01.460
<v S1>for validating B2B startup ideas before committing to them and

0:17:01.460 --> 0:17:04.980
<v S1>the recommendation of the week. Try something different with your

0:17:04.980 --> 0:17:08.300
<v S1>meditation for the next few weeks. Make a list of

0:17:08.300 --> 0:17:10.820
<v S1>the relationships and other good things you have in your life,

0:17:11.380 --> 0:17:14.659
<v S1>which are things like your husband, your wife, your particular

0:17:15.260 --> 0:17:18.340
<v S1>particular kid. You have a close friend. The fact that

0:17:18.340 --> 0:17:21.900
<v S1>you aren't hungry or cold at the moment. And now

0:17:21.900 --> 0:17:25.860
<v S1>imagine that that thing or that person is gone. But

0:17:25.859 --> 0:17:28.700
<v S1>as per your meditation, really, really imagine it. Like put

0:17:28.700 --> 0:17:31.300
<v S1>yourself in that mental mode if that thing is really

0:17:31.300 --> 0:17:34.540
<v S1>not in your life anymore. Imagine what you would do next.

0:17:34.940 --> 0:17:37.860
<v S1>What does a day look like? Imagine watching TV. Imagine

0:17:37.859 --> 0:17:41.780
<v S1>brushing your teeth. But without that person on the planet.

0:17:41.859 --> 0:17:44.500
<v S1>Then wake up and realize that they are still here.

0:17:44.700 --> 0:17:47.500
<v S1>This is a really, really powerful thing. And lots of

0:17:47.500 --> 0:17:52.179
<v S1>different stoic teachers taught this, and I soaked it in

0:17:52.180 --> 0:17:57.219
<v S1>from Marcus Aurelius. But when I was doing my stoicism stuff,

0:17:57.300 --> 0:18:00.660
<v S1>I must have been like 2018, 2019. I probably read

0:18:00.700 --> 0:18:04.940
<v S1>like 5 or 10 books around stoicism, including like summaries

0:18:04.940 --> 0:18:07.780
<v S1>and a whole bunch of source material. And I just

0:18:07.780 --> 0:18:10.780
<v S1>got this lesson drilled in over and over is like,

0:18:11.609 --> 0:18:14.169
<v S1>Realize what you have. I also learned this in the

0:18:14.170 --> 0:18:19.129
<v S1>army after being very, very cold and really appreciating things

0:18:19.130 --> 0:18:23.530
<v S1>like a warm bed and, uh, and Burger King. Honestly,

0:18:24.050 --> 0:18:26.530
<v S1>kind of a kind of a stupid example, but I

0:18:26.530 --> 0:18:29.050
<v S1>wasn't even in combat. I mean, I was just out

0:18:29.050 --> 0:18:33.210
<v S1>in the in the nasty stuff in, like, Kentucky freezing

0:18:33.369 --> 0:18:37.290
<v S1>my balls off. And it was bad. It was really

0:18:37.290 --> 0:18:41.210
<v S1>bad compared to being back at the base. And, you know,

0:18:41.250 --> 0:18:45.650
<v S1>in normal life, like most people lead. So just imagining, like,

0:18:45.650 --> 0:18:47.850
<v S1>right now I won't go too far into this, but

0:18:47.890 --> 0:18:51.850
<v S1>like right now it annoys me that there are several

0:18:51.850 --> 0:18:55.010
<v S1>things in my life right now in my environment and

0:18:55.010 --> 0:18:57.129
<v S1>just around me. The fact that I have this microphone,

0:18:57.130 --> 0:19:00.210
<v S1>the fact that I'm looking at a computer screen. It

0:19:00.210 --> 0:19:03.370
<v S1>annoys me that there's a list of hundreds of things

0:19:03.890 --> 0:19:06.010
<v S1>that if I didn't have them, I would wish I

0:19:06.010 --> 0:19:08.770
<v S1>had them. I have pictures on my wall here in

0:19:08.770 --> 0:19:13.490
<v S1>my house of the view of Earth from Mars. It's

0:19:13.490 --> 0:19:16.650
<v S1>a tiny little speck, and I like to walk by.

0:19:16.690 --> 0:19:18.170
<v S1>The reason I put him up is because I like

0:19:18.170 --> 0:19:20.850
<v S1>to walk by and look at this picture and be like.

0:19:21.530 --> 0:19:25.810
<v S1>Or a picture of the sun from Mars. It especially

0:19:25.810 --> 0:19:28.570
<v S1>though looking at the Earth like the pale blue dot picture.

0:19:28.690 --> 0:19:30.929
<v S1>I've got one of those as well. I love looking

0:19:30.930 --> 0:19:34.050
<v S1>at it, imagining that we've been jettisoned off the planet

0:19:34.050 --> 0:19:37.050
<v S1>like I'm in a prison colony. I've been kicked out

0:19:37.050 --> 0:19:39.729
<v S1>of Earth, and I'm looking at it from Mars. And

0:19:39.730 --> 0:19:42.770
<v S1>I'm just wishing. I'm just wishing I could go to

0:19:42.770 --> 0:19:45.850
<v S1>that one Mexican restaurant. I could hang out with my friends.

0:19:45.850 --> 0:19:48.770
<v S1>I could get a Starbucks. There's no more Starbucks. I'm

0:19:48.770 --> 0:19:52.010
<v S1>in prison on Mars. I will never have another Starbucks again.

0:19:52.010 --> 0:19:54.609
<v S1>And I will tell all my friends every time I

0:19:54.650 --> 0:19:58.649
<v S1>meet them in the prison yard on Mars how cool

0:19:58.690 --> 0:20:01.610
<v S1>Starbucks was. Am I actually a huge fan of Starbucks?

0:20:01.650 --> 0:20:04.369
<v S1>Not really. I do like the vibe. I like how

0:20:04.369 --> 0:20:07.010
<v S1>it smells in there. I like, you know, it's got

0:20:07.010 --> 0:20:09.209
<v S1>a vibe to it. I like to go in there

0:20:09.210 --> 0:20:12.330
<v S1>and work. The point is, whatever you don't have is

0:20:12.330 --> 0:20:15.010
<v S1>the thing you want the most. And there's a there's

0:20:15.010 --> 0:20:17.050
<v S1>a list of 100 of those things that I have

0:20:17.050 --> 0:20:20.450
<v S1>right now that are just amazing. And the most important

0:20:20.450 --> 0:20:23.850
<v S1>ones are actually relationships. And I think everyone's figured this

0:20:23.850 --> 0:20:27.690
<v S1>out by now. But stoicism reminds me to take inventory

0:20:27.890 --> 0:20:31.330
<v S1>and to imagine yourself without those things. And I recommend

0:20:31.330 --> 0:20:34.370
<v S1>you you try this practice as well. And the aphorism

0:20:34.410 --> 0:20:37.650
<v S1>of the week A rational person can find peace by

0:20:37.650 --> 0:20:42.330
<v S1>cultivating indifference to things outside of their control. A rational

0:20:42.330 --> 0:20:47.290
<v S1>person can find peace by cultivating indifference to things outside

0:20:47.290 --> 0:20:52.170
<v S1>of their control. Naval Ravikant. Unsupervised learning is produced on

0:20:52.170 --> 0:20:56.570
<v S1>Hindenburg Pro using an SM seven B microphone. A video

0:20:56.570 --> 0:20:59.490
<v S1>version of the podcast is available on the Unsupervised Learning

0:20:59.490 --> 0:21:02.690
<v S1>YouTube channel, and the text version with full links and

0:21:02.690 --> 0:21:07.929
<v S1>notes is available at Daniel Miessler newsletter. We'll see you

0:21:07.930 --> 0:21:08.530
<v S1>next time.